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I'm starting to wonder if I'm capable of looking after a FW aquarium. As some of you will already know,I have been having some problems with ammonia readings in the local tapwater. I checked my tankwater readings this morning
nitrate 10 nitrite 0 ammonia 4-5 ?? I have been using ammo-lock the past week so the fish were not overly stressed. I decided to visit a different LFS for their opinion & the lady there asked me how often I had been changing the water,and I said between 1 & 2 weeks.She said it is ammonium that they add to the water & not ammonia & that would not have been the cause of my recent deaths.She said have I been cleaning the filter & I said yes in the water I had removed because I thought that was okay. She told me I have been too concerned with cleaning the tank & filter & have destroyed the bacteria I had built up.She told me to go home & do a 50% water change not touch anything else & add 20ml Amtrite Down today & tomorrow. After doing that I noticed my 7 black emperor's were hovering around the surface of the water & my cories were looking very quiet on the bottom of the tank.I rang the LFS ,but, the lady said that was a normal reaction to the large change. After another 30 minutes nothing had changed & I was becoming very concerned,so, I added some ammo-lock & within 10 minutes everyone was back to normal. I've read that many articles on cycling & water chemistry,but,I feel like I've got no idea what I'm doing. At the moment I'm feeling a bit bewildered,but,I've become very attached to my little fish,so I'll keep trying.

"if you're goin swimmin,watch out for the noahs"

I think its actually possible that you are preventing a cycle from happening.Between the ammo lock, the cleaning, and the water changes your bacterial activity must be about zero!

What your doing is being so fearful about the health of the fish on a minute by minute basis that you are actually preventing the cycle from initiating, and the first sign of ammonia distress to the fish you add more ammolock,and perhaps in too much quantity, too often, in effect depriving the aerobic filter bacteria from having any sustenance. You cant keep this up forever. Might as well let the tank do its thing. You lose the fish you lose,short of fostering them out to someone with a stable tank , I dont see another option.

In theory your tank should be able to eat up the ammonia in the tapwater,and if you have a heavily planted tank, thee plants will help. All you can do to minimise the ammonia risk is use ammolock in buckets of water possibly kept ready for couple of days in advance of the water change rather than putting it in the tank. Personally id stop using it altogether. Do less water changes once everything has recycled again, and maybe try controlling the other end of the spectrum , like using denitrifying bags or bacteria to reduce the amount of changes you have to do.

You might, in the process of trying to prevent the fish getting ammonia shock from spikes, actually have killed the filter bacteria stone dead by starvation. Now there probably will be a cycle whether you like it or not. You went too clean!

Wishing you better luck for the future.

P.S. Something else they told me was that they check their shop aquariums ph regularly ,but, don't do a water change until the ph reading starts to turn acidic. I will admit the appearance of all their aquariums is pristine. Ash.

"if you're goin swimmin,watch out for the noahs"

I shouldnt take on that approach either, thats too slap-happy. A proper nitrate reading will do on that score. The nitrate could be through the roof before any ph change was detected, depending on what chemicals, and the overall balance of a tank may be. Just use a test kit and try to keep nitrate under 40ppm. Its better to risk periods of higher nitrate , than high ammonia though, so in your situation , youd be forgiven for letting the nitrates go up, perhaps as far as 70ppm. We like to keep nitrates levels low in these parts, and we constantly urge people to do their water changes, but its better off being an excess of nitrate than ammonia. No more cleaning and water changes for 21 days. Minimum. Equilibrium has to be restablished, lets face it, even all your water tests will be off for over a week now, you wont be able to make any objective decisions as regards water quality from readings.

Just keep it well oxygenated, give the fish only the minimum of food required, and hope for the best.No more cleaning , no water changes ,no more chamicals until the cycle is over

The advice we gave before might have been a case of "too many cooks". All with opinions that could end up a bit faffy. We were thinking about fine tuning water conditions and missed the obvious problem, that the overadministration of ammolock would bugger the filter. Slow down the thinking and the worry and just let it be. The tank, as long as the water flows, the filter runs and the fish keep crapping will eventually sort itself out without the addition of further chemicals. It has to recycle now , and theres no avoiding it.

Thanks Bro..
I've been known to overcomplicate things. I have a tendency to be a bit over zealous with most hobbies.I'll try & calm down a bit. Ash

"if you're goin swimmin,watch out for the noahs"

Hi,
In looking back at the various threads you have started
and advice you have received, I think you and LHD have
finally reached the correct conclusion. In aquariums,
you have to slow down your thinking, and at times, not
over think a problem.

You asked about ammonia in the water, and in that thread
you found out that your water supplier had increased the
amount of ammonia used to treat the water.
Ammonia comes in two different compounds and
the additive you were using changes the chemical
composition of ammonia, slightly, making it the
non-toxic form. However, your test kit cannot distinguish
between the two and actually adds the two together.
SO, if you have a 4 or 5 from the water company (non toxic
form) and you have a 1 in the tank (Toxic) form you will
have a higher reading and, panic.

Allowing a tank to go until it starts to turn acidic is
not a really good idea. It results in a very high nitrate
reading, and as all those organic compounds are formed,
they release hydrogen ions that cumulatively combine to
form acids, and the pH shifts to the acidic side of the
scale.
This is generally called Old Tank Syndrome (OTS) and is
described in this article:

http://www.bestfish.com/oldtank.html

As LHD suggests, sit back, test weekly, and take action
only when necessary.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank,
I see what you mean. I won't go down that road.
The tank looks a cloudy mess this morning..yuk.
On the positive side, if I decide to start another tank I'll have a fair idea of what not to do. Think I'll sit on the couch, watch a movie & have a cuppla beers!..Ash

"if you're goin swimmin,watch out for the noahs"

Hi,
First, don't feel like you are the only bloke to have ever
walked down that road. Most of us have, some of us many
times and we all have toughed through it.

By way of comment, cloudy water generally has three
possible causes:

A reason for cloudiness (brownish)can be debris
in suspension in the water column.
The most logical reason, it can be the result of
over energetic cleaning.
Stirring up the gravel and siphoning off the
muck can leave a tank nearly opaque. Much this depends
upon what one uses to clean the gravel and siphon off the
water. If one merely stirs the gravel with something and
gets all that muck up into the water column and then
siphons off the dirt laden water, the tank will be cloudy
(generally a brownish cloud) for days, sometimes weeks,
till subsequent water changes and the tank filter finally
clear the water up. The best thing I have found to both
clean the gravel and siphon the tank is the Python brand
siphon. Properly used, it will do both with a minimum of
cloudiness. In my tank, because I don't use aquarium
gravel, I use Sachem's Fluorite, the clay particles get
up into the water column, and I use a Diatomaceous Earth
filter (Vortex brand) to "scrub" or "polish" the water.
My 30G tank is crystal clear within an hour or two even
after a total overhaul.

Another reason for cloudiness (generally white) is a
bacterial bloom. When you upset the bacteria colonies in a
tank, you can wind up with dead bacteria (the bacteria that
was running your Nitrogen Cycle. Or, you could be over
feeding the fish and the excess fish food is rotting in the
tank. Or, you could simply have a dead fish somewhere
in the tank.
In either case, water changes (10-20%) per day,
will eventually dilute the water and it will become
clear again, as the new nitrogen fixing bacteria
colonies regrow and you get rid of the dead bacteria.
Feed sparingly, and remove any uneaten food.
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/waterconditions/a/cloudywater.htm
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cloudywt.htm

Another reason for cloudiness (can be white but always
changes to green) is floating algae colonies.
This is called "Green Water" (natch!). In a tank full
of very small, just hatched fry, this is outstanding food
and many actually deliberately grow this stuff. However
many also accidentally do this in a tank full of grown fish
and it can get so bad that the tank becomes like split pea
soup.
http://www.otocinclus.com/articles/greenwater.html

If I'm reading the previous posts correctly,
suspect that you have over done the cleaning process in
a newly started tank and the cause of the cloudy water
is a simple bacterial bloom.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for the info Frank...
What are we day 5 ? I haven't touched the tank & all the fish are still alive. I did check the water readings
ammonia 6 nitrite 0 nitrate 30 which I guess it means it is recycling. I hope the little fellas can hang in there.
I was reading some of the other posts & noticed the one about adding new gravel.I did add some new gravel to a 1/4 of the tank about 2 weeks ago when I added some live plants. I guess there wasn't much more I could do wrong. I hope others reading this thread might learn from my mistakes. Ash

"if you're goin swimmin,watch out for the noahs"

Hi,
With an ammonia of 6, I would keep a close eye on the
fish. Some of the hardy ones, would be fine but some
of the more fragile ones may develop problems.
If it goes much past 6, with no nitrite showing or
if they stop eating, start gasping, or acting "off"
a small water change of about 20% might be in order.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Frank..
As you know, I don't know how much is ammonia & how much is ammonium & at the moment they all seem to be behaving normally & feeding normally,but,as you suggest I will keep a close eye on them. Cheers mate ...Ash

"if you're goin swimmin,watch out for the noahs"