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Your Rainbow Dwarf Neon starts doing insanely fast swirls and spins, flipping and flopping all over the place and bashing into walls?

My tank had a small case of ich that i noticed on sunday night. (there was only about 2 fish that had only 3 white spots each). I began to do the regular treatment with a Malachite Green + Formalin treatment (Kordon's RID ICH+)

i dosed half the dose because of scaleless fish. The rainbow was one of the fish that had the white spots. I did a 40% water change everyday and added the same half regular dose of the treatment and kept the lights off in the tank. I raised the temp to 86F, and made sure plenty of oxygen got into the tank. I also removed the carbon filter like i was supposed to.

I noticed yesterday this fish was hanging out at the surface of the water ALL the time. The colour had faded from a bright silver metallic blue, to a dark, almost black blue. The fish is a female and has yellow-orange fins which now look as if they are dark red.

Today, the fish is just hovering about the substrate, occasionally "spazzing" out.

I know the fish is going to die. I want to know why the fish is going to die, what caused it? Is it because of the ich? ive been treating for ich for 4 days now. This is the only fish that has problems. The other fish cleared right up and have no white spots whatsoever.

This is the only time i've had to treat fish, so i'm a complete newbie at diseases and sick fish.

when you said that you done a 40% waterchange everyday,how many days did you do this for, and how big is the tank,i ask because 40% everyday sounds like to much to me,like thats nearly half your tank water in one go,then to reapete this the very next day,you may have done more damage by doing to many water changes,and that could be why your fish are acting weirdo.fish will scratch up against things when they have ick or whitespot,but i never herd of it causing fish to display the behavour that you described.i could be wrong.also even when you get a breakout of ick whitespot,you probly should just do a 25% water change rather then a 40%...

It sounds like your fish has swim bladder disease, typically from some kind of infection. You could try fasting your fish for a couple days to make sure it's not simply bloating due to overfeeding. I don't know if there are any cures, and how effective they would be. I have had a few fish in the past that had this and I ended up losing them in the end. As far as the water changes are concerned, it is good to do water changes to remove the free swimming form of the ich organism. With temps over 85, it is thought that the organism can't reproduce and after 4 days it should have died out. Also all those water changes and meds being added should also take care of the ich, so I would go back to the weekly/bi-weekly water changes as normal and stop medicating as long as the fish show no more symptoms. Good luck with the fish and maybe someone might have a better suggestion about treatment, or a better diagnosis.

What does that mean, Bob? "Till the cows come home." Where have the cows been?

I think it must have been the swim bladder problem then.
I only feed my fish once a day, and i dont overload the tank with food so i dont think it would have been bloated.

As for the fish, she's gone...

Also, i thought it was okay to do a 40% water change if you had a Bio-Wheel and didnt vaccuum the gravel? Isnt most of the bacteria in those two spots?

Hi,
Because 40% seem way high under the circumstances you
mention, I did a search on the product that you used.
This is one of the sites I came up with:

http://aquamaniacs.net/forum/cms_view_article.php?aid=125

Note the instructions say 25%. Sometimes when we don't
look at every fish, for a period of time each day, we can
miss one or two especially when they are sick. Then, by
the time we see them, figure out the problem, and start
treating them, it is too late. From your description, and
the size of the fish, it's systems were probably over
whelmed and nothing could be done to save it. Treating
the tank was a good idea. Removing the carbon was the
right thing to do as well. Changing that large an amount
of water every day could have lead to other problems and
was probably not a good idea.

You are correct, the main source of the bacteria that
supports the Nitrogen Cycle is in the gravel and the
filter. If you use that medication, within the limits of
the instructions, it will not harm that bacteria. If you
over dose, you will weaken or kill the bacteria colonies
and cause the tank to recycle.

As a rule, "We" don't do massive water changes (40%+)
unless there is a major problem we are trying to correct,
or we are trying to induce the spawning urge. Usually,
10-20% is the norm. It can be difficult to change that
large an amount of water, and not make a radical change
in the tank that can further stress the fish. It is
nearly impossible to match temperatures, or pH, or GH/KH
of that large an amount of replacement water and not stress
the fish. 10 gallons in a 100 gallon tank are not going
to affect the overall tank, but 40 gallons will.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

i know iwasnt much help in the above post,but i thought that 40% sounded like to much,as i said thats nearly half your tank water in one go,then to reapete this the very next day,thats a 80% waterchange in just 2 days,looking at it that way,that would surely stress out fish and could cause problems,what do you rekon frank.

I believe the death of your fish was caused by dramatic changes in water parameters, plus the complication of ich. I had a molly that I put into a tank with some new drift wood. I did not notice that the ph drop dramatically in about 1 week. She had the exact symptom as your drawf neon rainbow. I had to put her out of her misery after two days of various attempts to safe her without success

P.S., for ich treatment, I followed the procedure described in this link:

http://www.thekrib.com/Diseases/ich.html#0

It took two weeks to complete the treatment. Not sure if it's an overkill, but it worked for me. I never have ich in my tanks after the treatment. Good luck.

The only reason i did a 40% water change is because on the actual bottle it says (25% or more)...

well at least you will no for next time,25% is about the correct amount...

This advice may be coming a bit late, but as a bit of a rainbow specialist I doubt the water change was at fault.Rainbows with bladder issues if anything tend to try and stay under control as much as possible. The zipping about you describe sounds to me like ichthyosporidium, or whirling disease. Basically its a fungal infection that affects the neurology of the fish and the liver, and the movement and the darkening you describe are characteristic.

There arent really any truly effective cures for whirling disease once the infection has gone internal to the fish, but antifungal cures will kill a lot of the ambient contagion in the water and on the surrounding decorations.Infected fish are usually euthanised to prevent the spread to other fish.

Whitespot infections are well known for lowering the immune system and allowing such secondary infections to take hold.

Dont feel too bad, even most of the experienced keepers on here would have lost a fish or two before they realised the compound nature of the problem, and in any case the dosages required for treating both conditions simultaniously would have been heavy and difficult to survive. Phonexothol added to food isnt the easiest treatment to administer effectively , and the results arent usually that great either. Add to that the burden on the liver that most medications make worse caused by the ichthyosporidium and this was never going to go especially well.

Tough quarantine is the only way to really beat this infection. The whitespot is usually easy to fix, the ichthyosporidium is seriously difficult. Both together is very nasty indeed.