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HI All,
Here is my info.
29 gallon aquarium (new)
4 sick 1" glowlight tetras (they have ich)

amonia 2.0-3.0 mg/L
nitrates and nitrites ok
ph is 7.6-7.8 (common for my area) I used ph down a week before I put the fish in but have not since they are sick.
temperature 78 F

I bought a new 29 gallon aquarium. Set it up two weeks ago with water. 4 days ago bought 6 glowlight tetras to cylce my aquarium for the next month. The next day noticed ich spots. been treating them with 30% water change and recommneded treatment every 24 hours. slowly increasing the temp to 80 F. added recommended amount of aquarium salt for the last 2/3 water changes. The amonia is still a little high since it is a new aquarium. The fish are getting worse and I don't know what else to do. have already lost 2 fish. help please.

Hi dupja,
hope we can get you on the right track. Unfortunatly glowlight tetras, any tetras really, are not good at cycling a fish tank. They don't handle the higher amount of ammonia and nitrIte which will quickly kill most fish.

If you have not already, please, please, please make sure you read this link.

The fact that it's been running empty for two weeks means it's not cycled. You need an ammonia source in order for the beneficial bacteria to grow. As soon as you added the fish you added your ammonia source. Unfortunately you chose fish that can't really handle the cycling process. When fish get stressed they're very susceptible to ich, and you have some very stressed fish.

Don't add any more PH down, shifts in water chemistry can cause stress. If your fish were purchased locally they're already used to the same water that you have.

Leave the temperature where it is. Do not raise it anymore. The warmer the water temperature the less oxygen it can hold. The less oxygen in the water the more the fish will stress and gasp. The cycling process itself already makes it harder for fish, decreasing their oxygen supply is not a good idea right now. Raising the temperature is not the way to kill ich, just the way to kill off fish.

Do not add any salt to your aquarium. You do not have brackish fish, salt will only cause more stress and death for the fish you have. If you were adding it because you read that it kills ich, that's old information and will do much more harm than good. Do a 50% water change to try and get as much of the salt out as you can. You will need to restart your treatment with the medications because of this.


Remove any charcoal pads or bags from your filtration.

Lower water level slightly to increase oxygenation of the water by increasing surface agitation.

Keep temperature steady. If it's at 80, leave it there. You could reduce it by one degree in a 24 hour period back to 78, but it's better to leave it steady.

What medication are you using? The medication should not be suggesting adding salt. If it is go find another one. Rid Ich + is a common one to use.

Do not do water changes or place charcoal in the filter once you restart the medication. You need to get the salt out of the water, but you need to also fully understand how medication works to cure ich.


Basically medication cures ich by disrupting the life cycle. It cannot be killed until the ich has fallen off the fish and is entering the reproduction phase of its life cycle. So just because you don't see the cysts on the fish doesn't mean you've cured the fish

here is an illustration.


Back in the dark ages of fishkeeping before there were medications raising the temperature and adding salt could help since ich cannot handle high temperatures or salt. Unfortunately most fish cannot either. Because of people raising the temperature to 'cure' ich it's become a LOT more resistant to heat. Some studies have shown the temperature needs to go as high as 98F to actually kill it, well above the temperature that most tropical fish can handle. And as I mentioned earlier, the higher the temperature the less oxygen the water can hold.

These days all raising the temperature does is speed up the life cycle meaning that the medication can "work" faster


Since you're also dealing with a tank that is in the early stages of cycling (you will start to see the nitrIte rise then fall as the ammonia starts to fall be sure to read through the cycling link I posted earlier, I suggest you add a bacterial booster. Cycle will be your best bet at this point.

Hope that helps some. We'll get your tank straightened out so you can go back to enjoying the fish instead of stressing yourself.


^_^

Thanks Babelfish,

I am not new to aquariums. I have had many successful aquariums for years. The last of my tetras died recently so it has been many years since i have had to start from scratch. I had to buy a new aquarium. So i understand the cycling process and the life cycle of ich. I have not always been successful at treating it though. I added a little salt to the aquarium to help the fish retain some electrolytes lost. I raised the temperature to help speed up the cycle of the ich. My fish were doing fine until i started raising the temp over the past few days. I think that was what made things worse. Before then they had ich spots but otherwise seemed healthy. I have done what you suggested but i fear that it may be too late. the fish don't look too good. thanks for your help.

I wanted to cycle my aquarium with one of the types of tetras that I actually want. I want a south american tetra tank like i used to have. I don't remember what types of tetras I used to cycle the tank before. anyways, is there a NICE non-aggressive tetra that I can use to cycle my tank if these don't make it. I am very picky about what fish I want for the long run. thanks

Hi,
It is normal to raise the temperature of the water to,
as you say, speed up the parasites life cycle and eliminate
the pest as soon as possible. However, you are in the
middle of cycling the tank with a very high ammonia reading.
The increased temperature makes the ammonia more toxic
and is probably what is doing in your fish (at this time).

A given level of ammonia is less toxic at lower temps, than
at higher temps.

The cycling process takes ammonia to begin the process,
and in a 29G tank, 6 small tetras simply are not going to
give off enough waste products to really get the process
in gear. Live bearers give off more waste products than
do the tetras. Mollies, swordtails, even guppies, might
be a better fish for cycling... If you are going to use
fish. Now-a-days most of us use the "fishless cycling"
method. It is quicker, does not put the fish into dire
straits, and when the tank is cycled, you can then add
the fish you really want and not have to find homes for
the fish that were used for the cycling process.

Just a thought...
Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

THanks FRank,
I think you two are right. The high temps were a bad idea. I would love to know more about fishless cycling. if you have a link for me to get more info I would really appreciate it. I now have a better idea of what to do. dealing with ich and cycling the new tank was not something I had ever dealt with before. Thanks for all the help

Hi,
There are several sites that offer articles on
Fishless Cycling.

This is just one of at least a dozen that came up:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/fishless_cycling.php

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for the link. All the books I have are pretty old. I have read so much stuff online that lead me in the wrong direction. I think fishless cycling is better. Sadly my fish didn't make it. Hopefully I won't kill any more.

Hi,
I'm sorry to read that. If you can find pure ammonia
that would be the best, and easiest way to do a fishless
cycle. Simply add the required amount to the water and
test. Be prepared, before starting the process, to have
plenty of test strips (if you use them) or a fresh test
kit as you should at test at least a couple of times/day.
The cycle is complete when you can add ammonia and within
a few minutes, the ammonia reading for the tank returns
to zero.

What many folks don't understand is that the bacterial
colonies and the size of those colonies that develop
to support the Nitrogen Cycle, are solely dependent
upon the ammonia and its amount for their life.

If they start the tank with a small amount of ammonia,
or a small number of fish, and when the cycle is complete
and there is no ammonia reading, they figure it is time
to add fish. Many then go out and purchase a whole
bunch of fish and put them into the tank.

That quantity of fish give off a different amount of
ammonia (usually larger) and the existant colonies
will have to grow (takes time) to process the new amount
of ammonia. Thus, a small "mini cycle" occurs and the
fish can be stressed much as your fish in the initial
attempt.

All that boils down to "you can't use, say 6 tetras,
to cycle a 29g tank and then dump in say four,
4 inch, cichlids. It would practically be the same as
starting the cycle over again from scratch.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

What frank said!

Sorry to hear about your loss Dupja Hopefully with a fishless cycle you'll be good to go.

I didn't know about fishless cycling when I first started keeping, found the FAQ here on fishprofiles and had a few good long reads through. I selected my first fish based on the good first fish FAQ here and slowly increased my stock keeping in the easy first fish category.

You're better equipped with knowledge now, restarting the tank should be a lot easier and less stressful on its occupants.


^_^