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Beefshank

All I can think of is that the Ich is thriving in your tank and for some reason it is not harming the other fish. When you returned the Cardinals to the tank it is possible they could be a little stressed out and this would allow the Ich to attack them. The only other thing I could possible think it could be is something like the old neon disease but I have not seen that for many years. Or it could be a very strong strain of Ich

I am far from an expert on this subject I am trying to look at this a problem solving exercise.

Keith

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it's been five more days now. Mostly spot free. I did see 2 spots about 3 days ago, none since then. I hope it's over now, and I have 1 tuff little cardinal. I'll have to get him some new friends soon.

-Dennis

For the last 2 days, my cardinal has had no spots! I'm keeping my fingers crossed it lasts.

-Dennis

Like you suggested, about a teaspoon per 4 gallons. I put it in a container so it would slowly disolve into the water. I haven't added any more, but I continue to add the Melafix.

Today the cardinal has less spots, but as it changes every day, that may not mean anything. But I hope it is the start of improvement. All the other fish seem fine.

-Dennis

how much salt per gallon?

Well, it's been several days of treatment with salt and Melafix. So far, I don't really see any change though. The white spots still change placement and number almost daily. It looks like ick, but it sure doesn't seem to be acting like it anymore. I'll keep going and see.

Also, the lone cardinal started schooling today with the rummynoses! I was amazed, impressed, and saddened all at the same time, lol. As soon as he gets better, I'll get him some new friends. But then it will take 2 weeks for quarantine, so he's gotta tuff it out for a while yet.

-Beefshank

Thank you Dennis for keeping us up to date.

It is good to see you are finally getting on top of this problem. There is always plenty of help around.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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Today I tried what Cup_Of_lifenoodles suggested. I added in a little salt, and the melafix. So see, you weren't wasting your breath!

I don't really have anything to report yet on how it's working, but I will ASAP.

-Dennis

Keithgh,

It's obviously something strange like that. by the way, it was a new batch of Rummynoses that were quarantined and apparently brought it in. The cardinals were already in there, and appeared to be thriving until the Ick arrived. Maybe it's as simple as they weren't doing as good as I thought, and the Ick was to much for them.

I'm off to bed now, I'll see what's up tomorrow.

thanks,
-Dennis

Last edited by Beefshank at 07-Jul-2005 13:03

Preferrably three days post spot. The indentations will usually disappear within 6-7 days at the maximum, so expect aa 10 day wait at most.

About 2 weeks ago, I had an outbreak of Ick. It effected at least one fish of every kind I have (rummynose, cardinals, corys, ottos, bettas, platy, rasboras) I used Rid-Ick as the directions said, and raised the tank temp to 82f.

The Rid-Ick has worked exactly as it is supposed to, except with my cardinals. Every other fish lost the white spots, and they never came back. But over the 2 weeks, I've lost 7 of my 8 cardinals! Now, there is only 1 left, and although he only has a couple white spots, they seem to change locations (as in falling off, and getting re-infected when I'm not looking, not actually moving around.)

Does this make sense to anyone? Are cardinals extra-sensitive to Ick? Or maybe to the medication? More so than my rummynose tetras, or scaleless fish?

I'd just like to understand why this outbreak ripped through my previously healthy cardinals, but barely bothered my other fish, and why it still won't let go of my one last survivor!

My water parameters are:

ammonia: 0
nitrIte: 0
NitrAte: 7-10 (25% water chage every day for last 2 weeks)
ph 7.6
temp 82f (was 78 before Ick breakout)

thanks,
-Dennis

Today, the cardinal still had spots. More in fact. Probably about 7. Poor little guy.

Cup_Of_Lifenoodles, you said that the salt would not harm the fish in such small doses, and for such a short period of time, but you didn't say how long to leave it in there for. And are you suggesting just following the 7 day treatment cycle for the melafix? Or do you have a better suggestion? You think I should treat the whole tank, right? Or should I isolate the cardinal? If you can suggest a schedule, I would appreciate it.

After reading what I wrote, and the responses, it certainly seems that the Rid-Ick has done whatever it can do, so I've stopped using it. I'll see what info is posted by tomorrow and decide what to do next.

Keithgh,

I was thinking more about the cause. Does it make sense that fish that show no signs of Ick for 2 weeks during quarantine can have a breakout (so obviously not amuned) of a disease that only survives 3 days without attaching to a fish and showing itself? Kinda makes quarantine seem like a waste of time then!

thanks again,
-Dennis

Last edited by Beefshank at 06-Jul-2005 23:30

Beefshank

Usually when you buy any fish unless it is directly from the importer you have no idea how long the importer has had them. This importer is also a retailer and that way he can control his own retail stock.

Yes it sounds like it was imported with the new introduced fish.

Another tip I never buy fish which has just arrived they can be stressed out and then you add more stress by shifting them again. By paying regular visits you can see when the new fish arrive.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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Salt, in such minimal doses, and for such short periods of time will not hurt the fish. Actually, it will greatly aid in the healing process. Salt promotes greater exchange by way of osmosis. This heals the gills and rebuilds the slime coat of the fish which has been troubled by the ich infection.

Thanks for all the replies! Let me try to answer everybody's questions.

Keithgh,

-I have had them about 10 months, 2 died in the first month, but none after that. They all seemed healthy till this happened.

-they started pretty small, but had gotten pretty big, I would guess almost 2 inches. (does your importer have a suggestion for what size to buy if you don't know how long they have been in captivity?)

-I have to assume the Ick came in with the rummynoses. I noticed it about 3-5 days after adding them. However, I had quarantined them for 2 weeks before introducing them to my community tank, so I was surprised when it happened.

Little_Fish,

Yes, I do the 25% water changes, and proper doses. There is no special doseage mentioned for tetras. I know that on a weakend fish, the meds may have led to their deaths, but as you pointed out, all the rummys survived.

tankie,

Good point! the couple spots remaining look just like the spots from Ick, but this one little cardinal has managed to avoid getting covered in them. Everyday I hope and pray that when the tank lights come on, he will be dot-free, but I always manage to find a couple somewhere .They aren't in a different spot every single day though. They're just always....somewhere. The lights come on in about an hour, hopefully today will be the day they are gone.

Cup_Of_Lifenoodles,

Actually, when I started adding the Rid-Ick, the cardinals where not very visably infected, only a few fish (of each species) were. I assumed the spores (or whatever they are) had already attached but just weren't visable yet when I started adding the meds, BUT, maybe the Rid-Ick didn't do much, and the rest of my fish fought off the infection on their own, but the cardinals couldn't for some reason.

I could certainly add melafix, but wouldn't salt be bad for my corys and ottos? I could (and have considered) isolating the one cardinal. I tried that with a couple others during this, and lost them within 6 hours. I'm guessing the stress of moving pushed them over the edge.

What do you think about Kordon's organic Ick "medicine", "Ick-Attach"? It is supposed to be safe for ALL fish.

thanks everybody for you time!
-Dennis

I feel I am fighting a losing cause here;

Don't use ich medications. They are HIGHLY detrimental to your fish. Any fish that is apparently "treated" by these medications could have easily shed off the protazoan infection itself. The cardinals, which were already infected (heavily, I'll bet), recieved the dosage of malachite green, which stresses the fish out considerably, only weakening it's already reduced slime coat. At this point, it is not ich that kills the fish, but a secondary infection. If you're worried about the fish with the two spots left, add maybe a teaspoon of table salt per 4 gallons of aquarium water, along with some melafix. That should clear the sucker right up.

could this be still ich??? is it still 2 spots..and just moving around??? if it is still ich..i dont think it will remain like that..it will spread out again if not completely eliminated!!

Dennis,

I have never used this product as I use Quick Cure for Ich treatment. In order to educate myself about Rid-Ich, I web to Kordon’s website and reviewed the technical sheet for this product.

If I am not mistaken, it says you have to perform a 25% water change between every dose that you add to the tank. Did you do that?
I know that Quick Cure instructs to ½ the dosage if tetras are in the tank (couldn’t find this info for Rid-Ich though) because they are sensitive to the medication and otherwise would overdose. Maybe, just maybe, that’s what happened here (although your rummies are still fine).

Did you treat once per day with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Beefshank
Several questions for you.
How long have you had the cardinals?
What size are they?
Do you know how the "Ich" was introduced into the tank?

I spoke to an importer recently about Cardinals he imports them by the 1000s. He has learnt by experience to import the small ones and let them grow before he sells them. By doing this he has far less losses than importing the fully grown cardinals.
Good Cardinals are usually ease to keep and have litle problems with them.

You could have lost them because of a stress factor and this would lower their resistance to the Ich.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW