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Seeking advice regarding this brat of a cat of mine. (I love him anyway, but he's still a brat. )

You may have read my post a few months ago when Lucky came into my apartment. He's 13, and was my aunt's cat for most of his life until she became severely allergic to him (and a host of other issues). He lived in their basement for five years and when I got my apartment, he joined me.

He's been doing good, got back on his meds for hyperthyroidism, gained some weight and calmed down from what appeared to be a severe case of "I'm starved for attention!"-itis.

About two months after being on the meds, he started appearing more and more hungry, and more and more incessant (and loud mouthed) about being fed. Even ask Heidi... she's heard the little bugger meowling his hunger over the phone and can't believe how loud he is with the phone at my ear and the cat on the floor.

He's a very finicky eater. His tastes may be plebeian, but he's very specific about his food. He eats Friskies canned food (and as many of you probably know, it's not exactly gourmet food!), but it HAS to be the pate... NOT the shredded, diced, chunks, shredded, cuts & gravy or anything else. He gets a small amount of canned food for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and has dry food available all day long.

Sometimes he'll come up to me as if he's simply STARVING and will keel over any minute from lack of food. The pitiful meows have gone from cute to downright annoying. I swear, you'd think I was starving him the way he goes on. The thing is, he'll yowl for food even if his dry food bowl is full. He'll ignore the dry food until he gives up on me (I'm not getting out of bed at 3:30 in the morning to feed the cat), then goes to the dry food and scarfs it down so dang fast that it comes right back up within ten minutes. I keep telling him that he's thirteen years old and should know how to chew by now!

I called the vet and set up an appointment, as he was just about due for his three month checkup on bloodwork anyway. I described the symptoms and was frankly very upset when the vet suggested that I WAS starving my cat because of the small amount of dry food I put down for him at a time. He didn't even seem to LISTEN to the fact that the dry food bowl is NEVER empty, as it's checked several times a day. I only put down a small amount because Lucky won't eat food that's been sitting out a long time and I refuse to let him waste food. And honestly, the same issue with the wet food, he lets a portion of it spoil even though he only gets 1/6 of a can at a time. (This is why he gets three meals a day instead of the one he was getting at my aunt's house. There he just had to deal with the dry food and not complain.)

The vet's words were something along the lines of, "Well, you only put down a small amount of food, so he thinks he's not going to get anymore, so he eats it all really quickly!" If he had listened, he would have learned, that no, there's always food in the dish, he doesn't eat it ALL and the behavior isn't constant. In fact, this behavior seems to happen more when the bowl is fuller than when it has less food in it, which is another reason for limiting the food set out.

Maybe once or twice a week, he exhibits this binge and purge behavior. The vet was trying to go on and on about me starving him or him eating something that didn't agree with him (from garbage can, over-eating cat grass or catnip). He ignored the fact that the cat hasn't gotten into the garbage, and that any pet grass/catnip that he gets is carefully doled out. I knew exactly what was going on (cat eats dry food quickly, throws up nearly whole kibble, with little evidence of it being chewed) yet he wouldn't listen.

Honestly, I'm not seeing that particular vet again, there's several in the practice, and I'd rather have one who LISTENS to what I'm saying. About the only thing I WAS happy about regarding the entire visit was that the blood results came back as I expected, with his thyroid levels being a bit high and a higher dosage of his medicines being prescribed.

Something similar happened yesterday and today with cat grass. I put the pot of cat grass on the floor for him yesterday, he scarfed, then scampered off to deposit grass-laced vomit all over the place. I thought it was simply because I was distracted (on the phone at the time) and let him have more than was wise.

Today, I selected three small blades of grass for him instead of letting him get at the pot alone. He scarfed them down (no chewing involved!) and was begging for more until I scolded him. He slunk off to the hallway, from which I suddenly heard an odd noise and was just in time to grab him by the scruff of the neck and deposit him in the bathtub (for easy cleanup). One of the blades of grass came up in nearly perfect condition, in other words, completely whole!

What's with this cat and how can I reteach him how to freaking chew?! *Bangs head against wall* Honestly, I'm about ready to take both dry food and cat grass away. And anything that makes him want to puke. Because HIM puking and me having to clean up makes ME want to puke! *gag*

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Well, My Sweet Kitten...if there is a solution please let me know. Stanley has started doing the same thing...I get up to get a drink, he's up my rearend begging and chewing, i go to the bathroom, again oh momma feed me i'm dying...i gave in yesterday and gave him an extra meal just to shut him up and what does he do? comes into the bedroom and pukes all over the carpet, to which he turns around and cleans it up hisself...I think he may have gotten some on Cleo by how she reacted, but who knows...she's totally insane these days...best of luck, houston

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Hello Kitten
I have been with cats all my life my mother was a cat breeder as well as showing them. To me he sounds just like an old cat. As you stated it looks like his earlier years could have been a lot better. Hyperthyroidism can be very nasty as we had a 20yld with it and had been treated for it for many years. The trouble is, as they get older it can get worse and they require regular blood tests to see if the medications require any adjustments. We had this done to our adopted 12yld FM this morning. This cat also lead a hard life for at least 10 years, but that is another story.
As far as eating Cat Grass our cats all four of them (youngest 10yld) all eat grass sometime or other and the will vomit it up partly chewed as well, there is always a white frothy liquid with it. We also give our cats a small dose of paraffin oil ours like it with full cream milk. This helps to remove any fur balls they might have. With the hyperthyroidism they can tend to lick them selves a lot this is to cool them down. To tell if this is happening his coat will start to look as if it is sunburnt and could go a gingery colour. He also could have teeth tarter build up (some dry cat foods will help) but the best is UNCOOKED chicken wings. If he has dental problems gums or bad teeth they will require attention.
One very important thing CHANGE THE VET we had to do that with the adopted cat they were giving her an over dose on meds. It was the owner who required the calming down not the cat. Now saying that is there any chance the cat could be stressed out if it lacked attention it will require plenty of it now. If you are not home during the day has it got thing to keep it occupied? We always leave the radio on when we go out. Having four older cats we have to make sure they all get their special attention in other words be spoilt rotten.
I hope this helps you a little bit.

Keith

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Cats will actually starve themselves if they don't like the food they are being fed. I have that issue with Carmel. She has no health problems but absolutely will not eat cheap crap like friskies. Honestly it's about one of the worst foods you can give a cat and being true carnivores they often dislike the very high grain content. If your willing to put out the money($16/8lb bag) some really good foods would include Natura(especially california natural) and serengheti. I've not yet found a cat that wouldn't eat california natural. Even the extremely picky cat living in the basement(was here when I moved in) will scarf down any flavor of that food and we were about to have her put down because she was so skinny despite her food dish being constantly full of friskies, eukanuba, and iams. I've also had good luck with serengheti but you can pretty much only get it online from timberwolforganics.com and I've known a few cats didn't like the rounder kibble of that food versus the flatter ones. These foods are also much much easier on the digestive tract(especially california natural) and are very rarely thrown up. In fact I've never had a cat throw up california natural including my grandpa's 16+ year old cat that was throwing up multiple times a week. Better food would also help with the other health issues.

You also have to consider that older cats can have trouble with dry food. Some have to be maintained on wet food which is actually much healthier for the cat anyway. They have fewer health problems on wet food versus dry. I order california natural canned deep water fish formula by the case off petfooddirect.com whenever I have a 20% off coupon code or a free shipping offer.

Hiya keith... good to hear from you.

The odd thing with the cat grass is that he's never done this before... well, before I had pet grass from the pet store (which dies in two weeks or so) and now this is "cat grass" from seed from a gardening store. Apparently whatever the difference is, it doesn't agree with his stomach. The 'frothy' liquid was rather orange-ish... dunno if that means anything.

He does shed a bit, but doesn't seem to groom himself anymore than usual. Nothing abnormal about his fur and he doesn't seem to have any tartar buildup, or nothing that the vets have mentioned. Only thing wrong with his mouth that I know of is a missing canine tooth, broken at some point before I got him.

As for the vet, I like the clinic as a whole and have seen two or three other vets there that I like. If I can figure out who the younger guy was, I'm definitely going to request him in the future. I saw him last time and was really quite impressed with how well he listened and was willing to go over things with me, being a new cat owner.

As for being stressed out, you know, you might be onto something, keith. I never even considered it, but this behavior has basically been going on since it has been getting warmer and the bf has been out during the day instead of sitting at home on his lazy backside. (Stress between me and the idiot bf probably communicating to the cat, too, now that I think about it.)

He's got toys strewn around, but he only seems to be interested in them for short moments of time, otherwise, he ignores them. I've taken to hiding some away and will start rotating them out, hoping to regain his interest in them. What else can I do to entertain him during the day. He seems to have lost interest in the fish tanks, but still sits on the window sill for hours on end, watching birds and bugs and whatever. I could ask the bf to leave the radio on during the day, but I can almost bet that he'll forget.

Honestly, keith, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the being alone during the day bit. I mean, the bf is here long enough to feed him lunch around noon, but I don't think he's here much more than that most times. This is a complete change from Lucky being alone almost 24/7 (at my aunt's house) to having someone be WITH him pretty much 24/7 when it was cold out here, and now we're starting to abandon him again with other obligations. I just started a full time job vs the part time I had since we got him, and the weather is warmed up enough that the bf is out and about. Poor baby, I hope he's okay when I finally have enough money to kick out the bf and live on my own... I need to figure out how to occupy him for when that DOES happen!

Edit: If I didn't think he'd tear apart a new addition to the household, I'd look into getting him a feline companion, but he HATES cats. Gets along alright with dogs, but hates cats. The mere sight of them near enough makes him hiss, spit, growl and generally act scary. Silly cat. And I don't have the money or time to put into a dog right now. Sigh.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Nearly all cats act that way. They fluff up, hiss spit, and just turn into giant deadly furballs whenever they see a new addition to the house. After a few weeks they generally chill out. I just went through that mixing new cat and dog with established cats. After a month they don't get along great but have reached a point of ignoring each other instead of trying to kill each other on sight. That's a pretty normal cat reaction to a new cat.

It sounds to me like he's probably got dental problems that cause him pain to chew. It's probably also why he won't eat the different textures of Friskies.

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I'll have to have the vet take a closer look at his mouth the next time we go in. They've always just noted that his teeth look good and there's not much in the way of tartar buildup. I suppose there could be an underlying problem that causes the lack of chewing. He seems to do well enough with the treats he gets... he loves the crunchy Whistas temptations with the soft centers and happily crunches away at them. *shrugs*

As for the different textures of canned, he'll eat them, it's just obvious that he prefers the pate... and he's always been like that from what I've been told. He's a very picky eater, but has very plebeian tastes. I've tried other brands of canned food, but he always eats just enough to take an edge off the hunger and then leaves the rest to spoil.

I've never seen another cat react like he does to other cats. I mean, it's a very defensive "I'm scared, get away from me, if you don't, I'll hurt you!" type reaction. When he was adopted from the shelter, he was in a open cat-room type setting, where he was picked on by the other cats. The behavior may be a remnant from that time. Honestly, I'm scared he would hurt another cat. He shows that defensive hissing and whatnot, but he'll actually move to attack the other cat if they get too close, even if they're showing nothing but a curious behavior. With four pawsful of claws, I don't know what I'd do if I wound up with a tangle of cats!

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

I agree with Sham on the food issue. A good food has less (or no fillers) in it so the cat will actually eat less but get more from it. When the pet food recalls were happening a couple of months ago, I did a ton of research on cat food and the diet that a cat really should be on since they are strict carnivores (other than eating grass occasionally) and I kept coming back to California Natural as the best food on the market. I personally went with EVO (by California Natural) for my 2 boys and my roommate's cat. This particular food may not be the best choice for all cats because of the high protein content, but the company has many other varieties to choose from. I really wanted to go strictly with their canned food since it is as about the closest thing to a natural diet that is made commercially (and not frozen), but since we are feeding 3 cats, we really can't afford to do that.

---

I used to be Snow White, but I drifted.
~ Mae West

Evo is a great food but it's hard on the stomach. Reason I quit using it both for dogs and cats. If they didn't throw the food up they threw up most anything else they got ahold of. California natural is made for animals with allergies or sensitive stomachs. It has an extremely simple ingredients list with only 1 meat source and 1 low allergy causing grain. I switched Azami to timberwolf but the california natural cat food I have contains 3 chicken ingredients and 2 rice along with vitamins and minerals. Hardly anything to upset a stomach and none of the excess grains or other ingredients that can cause allergies or other health problems. The main suggested diet for animals having digestive tract problems or eating disorders is actually plain boiled chicken and rice. They also really do eat less of it. With 3 cats I've only used 1/4th of a bag in about 2-3weeks but Carmel does get a half of a 3oz can every night. They are not only in good shape but the skinny one has put on tons of weight with that diet.

Our Cat Mouse does the same thing. and on top of that she is a very picky eater. Good thing is she only eats the cheap stuff, 1 dollar a box. But every time we take her outside she eats grass and then throws up. One thing I have noticed is that if our other cat Loki is around, he wont let her eat. So we have to feed her seperatly from him. Since we have started doing that (By letting him outside and then feeding her she hasn't done it that much)

Here is mouse BTW



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Sorry, sham, didn't mean to ignore your first post... apparently you posted at the same time I did and blended into keith's post above yours. My bad for not paying more attention.

He's only getting the Friskies canned food, which is what he was getting when I got him. I tried switching him a few times, but he didn't appreciate the attempt at better food. And then, on the last try, the food I got him was recalled the very same week (Nutro). I about had a panic attack when I realized! I decided after that to stay with Friskies (no recalls) until I was sure that there would be no more recalls on canned food. Doesn't seem to have been any updates lately, so I can probably go ahead and try something new when he's done with the stash I have currently.

He's got Felidae Platinum (Senior formula) dry food, which is a very good brand, not as good as Innova EVO or Serengheti, but also not such a bloody hole in my wallet, either. Honestly, I'm willing to get him good food, but I'm not going to pay 2-3 times the price for food. I've considered Solid Gold brand, but they don't have a senior formula (despite the fact that they have about half a dozen different formulas for dogs). Also looked at California Gold, I'm not sure why I didn't go with that one... do they have a senior formula? I'm very leery about the brands that don't... the vet (and not the idiot I just saw) suggested that Lucky be brought to a senior formula, as it would be better balanced for his needs.

I think a lot of the current problems stem from the shape of the Felidae kibble... they're shaped as the capital letter "I". Personally, a huge waste of effort and money goes into that... it's the stupidest kibble I've ever seen. He used to be on Science Diet when I got him, and I switched from that to Nutro and then to Felidae when Nutro was having recalls (all very gradual changes that took at least a month). He has the habit of taking the "normal" kibble shapes (like Nutro and Science Diet), chomping on them and leaving little bits and crumbs behind, which he refuses to eat. I think the Felidae kibble is just too small and like the crunched up bits for him to be enthused about it.

The whole recall thing scared me to death because it was all happening when I had just gotten the poor kitty and was a very new cat owner. Here I was, trying to improve the food that he was eating, and getting scared by the recall every step of the way!

I'm more than willing to switch him to a better brand if he'll accept it, but I can't afford to shell out scads of money, either. I JUST started a new job this week (this is full time, have been working just part time for 8 months), so it will be a bit of time before I can afford to splurge and honestly, I can't see spending 3 times the price of a good food for a "superior" food. Like I said, his tastes are pretty plebeian... so far he's preferred the stupid Friskies canned food to anything else I offer him. I mean, it sure doesn't make much of a dent in my pocket, but honestly, I'd prefer to know that he's eating a DECENT diet.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

I never had good luck with nutro. Despite the fact the ingredients look better than the cheap grocery store brands I've never had an animal do well on any of their foods. Which is why I switched Azami off nutro puppy food as soon as I got her. I think nutro uses poor quality ingredients despite them looking good on paper. The number of recalls only confirm it further.

I wouldn't worry too much about getting a senior formula. The cats generally don't like them as well anyway and sometimes they are just as detrimentral as they can be helpful. Most of the best quality foods don't have different formulas for older cats and many don't even have different formulas for kittens versus adults. It's not that important. Most companies only make these different formulas to try to get more people to buy them so they can make more money. The balance of nutrients in the food is far more important and just to watch the weight of the cat and overall health issues. If the cat gets too fat, too skinny, or starts having various health issues(even if they seem unrelated) you might need to look into a food with different nutritional values or protein sources.

Here's a question... I've seen some of the "senior" formulas toted as being "senior, inactive or overweight pets". So is this really just a lower calorie version of the regular formula? Because if that's the case, then Lucky certainly doesn't need that!

He's rather too thin in my opinion and a lot of that is due to the hyperthyroidism. When we first put him on the medications, he gained a pound in a month. Now his weight has stabilized, but he's still a modest 10 pounds instead of a more fleshed-out 11 or 12, which is more his target weight. (You can still very easily feel spine, hips and shoulders.) He doesn't look starved anymore, but he's still quite thin. After his thyroid leveled out, the meds seemed to become less effective, as seen by the bloodtests showing higher levels again.

I'm looking up the California Natural and confirming my previous thoughts... doesn't have a senior formula. However, I'm more than willing to try it. I didn't realize that Natura also made Karma (which I was told is probably The best dry food you can buy). Hmm. Okay, I admittedly can't afford Karma or EVO, but heck, knowing that those are some of the best foods on the market, I'm more than willing to try out California Natural. I didn't realize they were all made by the same company.

All right... when I get my paychecks rolling in, looks like we're going to see how he likes some new stuff. At this point, I'm willing to try anything that will stop him from vomiting and will help him put on a little weight.

Thanks for all the advice... I'll update more when I try him on the new food. Though at the rate that my life is going right now (bills, bills, bills!) it might be a bit. Sigh. Life sucks.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

It depends. Most senior formulas I've seen contain less calories claiming the cat is less active but some will contain more claiming the cat doesn't digest food as well. Most all senior foods contain more fiber. However the fiber usually isn't a good source for cats and a good food won't need extra fiber anyway. Maybe if you've got an inactive fat cat with digestive tract issues causing diarhea despite proper feeding. Overall just because it says senior on it does not mean it's good for your particular cat and just because a food doesn't say senior doesn't mean it's bad for your cat. I know plenty of people actually put their senior cats back on kitten formulas to increase the calories, fats, and proteins and kitten formulas are often made to have fewer ingredients that can cause upset stomachs. You need to look at the actual food not just the label.

I keep forgetting. Another possible brand is Natural Balance. I haven't tried their dry food but their canned pate(forget the rest of the name) is the only other food Carmel will eat. It's a bit cheaper than innova so I was using it for awhile since she didn't like the innova any better but I forget the exact price. It's also easier to find since most large petstores stock it. Especially after they had to get rid of all that recall food and had empty shelves.

I actually had some samples of Natural Balance following the Chicagoland Pet Expo. Lucky LOVED it to the point where when I forgot and left the sample package out on my desk overnight, he jumped up here, scarfed... and then puked all over the floor. It could have been the abrupt introduction of a new food, or something to do with the product itself. Not sure.

Bah, in any case, I'm going to see what sort of samples I can get from the local specialty pet store. They usually have a ton of samples of the dry food, and I'm pretty sure one of them is the California Natural. We'll see how he likes it, and if he likes it more than the Felidae, I'm willing to work with that!

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Lol, the pavlovian training of humans by cats again.

I find a healthy dose of "bloody eat it or starve" works quite well, besides they get a good quality food and some biscuits. Half the nutritional problems of cats happen because people forget that almost half of their natural diet is not mammal meat, but heavily subsidised by blood and insects. Thats pretty much why the rich foods and dry foods dont work out to well for many of them. metabolically, and digestively what they want is very fresh, warm, wet, low in salt and sugar, and has little fibre beyond a little fluff, skin, and crushed bones, but loads of protein and vitamins,and the original gut contents of the included animals, as you might expect, partially digested, not just mashed up and thrown in vegetables.

As we in the rescue trade call it, meatshake

You make it yourself because, its cheap, and your not concerned with the profit margin that companies are. Basically no matter what price you pay for catfood, you can always make better at home, if of course you can be bothered.

Mice , rats, chicks, vitamins, blender. Watch their health turn around when they eat it. Zookeepers know this.

And for the record fish is better for dogs than it is for cats.

The thing is, as a child I remember you only gave most animals prepared foods as a portion of the diet, because quite simply foregoing the enzymes and degradable vitamins that had to be offerred in fresh foods was a bad idea, and TBH , I dont think much has changed. A couple of words from a waltham food research industries and everyone loses their minds. Lets be honest here, longlived cats are the ones that go out and kill. 250,000 birds, mammals,and countless thousands bugs , moths, frogs etc per night every night, all year, in the mainland uk alone. Just as well most cats don't really rely on us for their complete nutritional needs, because we'd probably fail them. The biggest favour we do cats nutritionally is to deworm them occassionally.

As a trend I dont see domestic animals really living any longer than they used to once to take medical treatment advances out of the equation, and I sometimes wonder if we might not be entrusting our pets health to artificial diets a little too much.

You show me a cat that can live on a 90% horsemeat and wheat filler diet all its life (cos thats whats really in most foods, like it or not) and i'll show you one freaky inbred cat. Also, always beware the "complete nutritionally balanced diet". Frankly, ive never seen one of those yet, i'm pretty sure theyre a myth, in fact im positive.

Tiggy age 22, Sandy age 24, Chucky, once dying age 3 , now age 8, still alive dietary deficiencies reversed. Nuff said.

Feeding , apart from when illness is a factor, is always a human problem more than a feline one.
Funny how, when I have a cat , it doesnt beg when confronted with a little personal thunder, especially when consistantly handled.

I dunno, people let their cats and their kids walk all over them these days.

As my mom always said. "youre not supposed to like me, Im your mother!"

She was right too. They respect you for it in the end, their compliance lends itself to greater love in the end. Animals are just like kids with a language barrier. Make it clear, and problem over.

I'm all over the clarity bit and I have a cat that does the cute eyes better than antonio banderas in shrek, and was handed to me with the ability to say the word "milk" in english, with perfect clarity.

Thou shalt not melt