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Bows or guns doent matter, idiots still miss and shoot things in the butt no matter what they use. Thats why I dont approve of hunting for the masses.most people are actually not good shots with any weapon.

Hunting should be for food, if you need it, and no other reason really apart from population control in the very few areas that need it. Somehow I think aa better reason is needed for hunting than just the thrill of it. Thrillseeking to me at least seems a poor excuse to end the life of something- thats what serial killers do.

Theres something about arriving at a hunting ground in a car, with a packed lunch and a shiny high powered rifle that just takes the relevance out of it. I have every sympathy with someone who lives practically wild , or lives a couple of hundred miles from shops, and they can hunt to eat no issues, but when townies just go hit the forests to see if they can kill something it seems inexorably lame to me.
Its like people having to prove themselves in a primal right of passage in a culture that neither needs nor respects that right of passage.Mankind has since about forever, had issues with proving their manliness, yet I have much more respect for people who rescue animals than hunt them. it usually takes a great deal of skill, strength, instinct.

I for example rescued a fallow deer with a broken leg.I ambushed it on semi open ground on a hill, literally rushed it, took it down by a neck throw at mid running pace, pinned it (it wieghed far more than me) , helped it down, bagged the head, tied it, carried it down a hill still very much fighting , got it in the van, took it to the rescue centre, anaethsetised it, set the leg,and made it well and releasable in two months. The same deal with foxes, how many of you for example have rushed a fox, dived through a hedge and come up with a perfect catch on the scruff of its neck. This is the real skill, its real hunting, and I dont even have to kill anything, quite the reverse. How many "hunters" would have the balls to move a 14 foot alligator through a kitchen, or catch live a full grown and fully awake lynx on a 6 foot grasper?

When you can do that, gun hunters all look decidedly less manly.Any idiot can shoot something. It does not require true hunting skills. I had to stalk and chase to manually catch a deer, not get within half a mile to shoot it.

Gun hunters know nothing of hunting. Thats why every charlatan and redneck goes hunting. Its not much of a skill just to get line of sight on something. Even fishing is a greater skill. Especially trout tickling

A for trophy hunters, that is the stupidest thing of all. Natural predators eat the sick the wounded and disadvantaged , it keeps populations strong. Trophy huters shoot the biggest and the fittest, and that weaken races. hOW DUMB IS THAT? Its anti-evolution.

As for the thrill of killing, its like bomber pilots in wars. When asked how they kill hundreds of thousands of people by carpet bombing, they will simply reply- "you dont see it up here", and thats the problem. When shooting you dont feel the pain, you dont always see the terror, and you dont hear the gurgles and feel the heart stop.

I had to manually break the neck of a deer that had been ripped in half by a car and yet wouldnt die. Feet on shoulders, arms round neck and pull. It was one of the most difficult things ive had to do in my life both emotionally and physically. To be honest at the time I cried, and it haunted me for a while after, even though I knew I was stopping its suffering.I felt it die. What I fewlt was a crushing down, seldom matched by even my worst periods of depression. That something so beautiful sensitive and intelligent should have to die so unecessarily, hit me so directly in the heart, the memory of it still haunts me a little.

Thats killing,the real thing, uncensored by distance or weapon, and trust me. You dont want it. Thats why I say you should only take a life to save yours.

I dont think "real" men hunt unless they have to. Being a man is about many things, but when you have the power to kill, the bigger part of your responsibilty becomes to care, be merciful, to be wise, and to appreciate what is around you and be a protector of life. Any idiot can take life. It takes a stronger person to protect it, and a wiser one still to take only that which is needed. Excessive hunting is like the greed that typically infects humanity. Its an illness of spirit, a self indulgence, nothing more. No one was ever made a man by killing, unless of course, he was feeding his children.

Thats not what people do now.

Just for the record, I do eat what I kill/catch (hence the tasty comment in my first post). I also want to applaud you for all of your efforts in regards to animal rescue, LHG.

I agree with you about the eedjits who are in it purely for the kill. I like to call them weekend hunters; they work during the week, and on Saturday drive up to the state gamelands, go to an already established salt lick or alfalfa patch (people who set those up annoy the bejeesus out of me), wait for about an hour for something to show up, and blast it with their shiny new 30-06 that they shoot once a year.

Realize though, that in America anyway, hunter organizations are some of the leading conservation forces, and most states have licensing fees that go directly into conservation efforts. The same goes for fishing organizations. Sure, the cynics may say that we're only involved in conservation just so we can kill the animals later, but I honestly believe that most other hunters, like me, genuinely enjoy the outdoors and not just the killing aspect of hunting.

I am confused about one thing, LHG. You say that most people are bad shots with just about any weapon, yet you state repeatedly that any idiot can go hunting with a firearm.

My arguments probably aren't making much sense, as I'm on a medication which gives similar effects to wrapping my brain in 3 feet of cotton.

Joe Potato

Its a clear thing, anyone can shoot at an animal, some hit it some dont, many just wound and kill by infection of that wound. Any idiot can go hunting, but few of them make good hunters, Its the weapon that does the killing, it covers the distance in a heartbeat, and aiming one takes little enough talent, but people still manage to screw even that up. Thats why guns were made, to improve the chances of making a kill. Using one is not a particualarly involved art for intelligent people, yet many people who use them are not overly intelligent. There is no contradiction, just too many people with no talent, no skill, and a self indulgent will to kill, that overrides all notion of knowing their limitations.

Hunting with a gun is a skill, its just that its a skill thats expensive to learn, at least morally speaking, and its not a particularly ounced skill. For the empathy most people have with animals, and the knowledge of self awareness that they have, they might as well shoot paper targets.

Im not against guns, but i think it should be for people who have real need, and the skill is shaped from necessity. It shouldnt be considered something just anyone should be able to go and have a go at because they think its a hobby. Working people in offices, and daily menial jobs who get a wage have no need to hunt, I fail to see why they should have to go and shoot the woods up. Their entire upbringing meass that many formative years of remaining in tune with nature and knowing its ways are lost. They have no real standpoint from which to maintain a hunting excellence, no instinct , no fitness and no knowledge.

I believe hunting is a right for those to have need, that is earned, not given. Or at least it should be. Theres to many humans in the world to just let everyone have a gun and go hunting, and if theres one thing you cant trust people with, its knowing their limitations.

I never was comfotable with hunting money going to conservation, its a poor escuse for conservation when governments dont just have a good conservation policy anyway. The overriding reason for conservation is to retain biomass and diversity of species. That many places only stay in a relatively pristine state because of hunting is a sad indictment of how governments allow people to exploit anything that would otherwise be destroyed for its dollar value.

We saw the same thing with fox hunters in the uk, a lot of them just ultimately threatened to build on wild areas if their hunting was stopped. Hunting doesnt really create conservation, it only does sso when governments fail to see proper conservation is carried out. The day we rely on hunting as the sole reason for conservation I think ill hang myself.

Do we really only want things to live so that we can shoot them? Because that seems to be the message. We should be heavy on conservation anyway. That hunters get to validate themselves on conservation grounds is to me at least deeply ironic, and not at all healthy. Id rather people werent really allowed in to good conservation areas for shooting. I just regard it as conflict of interest. I dont thin any good government would tolerate it. Its easy enough to set up a park area and let people take nothing but photos, which incidentally is about the same skill level as shooting, and yet altogether less damaging, and far more inspirational.

Legally, any idiot can go hunting with a firearm, and yes, most people are bad shots.

I agree that "Hunting doesnt really create conservation, it only does sso when governments fail to see proper conservation is carried out.", but for as long as the governments of the world are unwilling to properly commit themselves to conservation, I say we take the money where we can get it. Of course, the common response to this is to call that money "blood money", but until a lot of the so-called environmentalists start ponying up the cash that match how much they profess to love nature, it'll have to do.

Joe Potato


Edit: I guess my point is that it is fair to say that some hunters don't support conservation just for conservation's sake, but that they intend to reward from it somehow, usually in the form of shooting game. But it is still better than nothing.

Ok Texan walking into the room......this actually terrifies me more than I think I want to admit But then again this is the place (I suppose everyone else has these other accomidations) where they put bumps in the road, we call it driving by braille, where at a drive through they offer a menu in braille, and if you go to the ATM drive through it is also in braille. All of these are things that make you either go hmmmmm or This is also the state that acknowledges that it takes 5-7 years to acquire an academic use of English for those learning it as a second language, but gives the "2nd year immigrants" (even 1 day at the end of the school year can be counted as a whole year ) and makes them take the same test as all the others in their same grade, in English...now don't get me wrong, but where in hades does any of this make sense?

Even with all this stupidity and there seems to be more of it than there are grains of sand these days, I still love Texas and call it home, though I really wish some other "Big" people would quit declaring it home, and go live in the antartic in a swimsuit for a few years....houston...born, and raised here in the great state of Texas...

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle