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After wrestling with a borrowed in-line steriliser for 3 hours trying to get it connected (oh for the day I can afford the user-friendly stuff), the last thing we expected was for the water to get greener! We were all sitting there glancing at it, and then someone piped up and said "Oi, is it just me or does that look worse?" which of course it did

What is going on here?

The details on the box were sketchy. "When water not moment, light please off" etc etc. so product instructions were rather unhelpful at best.

Can someone run me through the process of dying algae?
As best I can figure, the brighter/denser appearance is due to dead algae getting more intense in colour before decomposition, could this be the case?
We are about 3 hours in now, and the tank *seems* to be becoming slightly more yellow/green towards the substrate. It is still incredibly dense, but the colour change seems to indicate that the dead algae is losing colour and sinking. Does this sound likely?

If this is the case, short of scouring the country for someone with a diatom filter to borrow, what is the best way of removing the decaying matter to make sure it doesn't kick off the whole thing again? Will it stay low enough for at least some to be picked up in a gravel vac, or should I be looking at a finer filtration material for the canister?

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Just had another look, it is worse still, and the darkening/colour change towards the bottom is no longer happening. Pics soon.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

I don't really know anything about uv sterilizers. But I would think that more green would mean more photosynthesis going on. What led to the green water issue?

Yeah, that was what I thought too, but then I wondered if maybe it was like cooking green beans and how they go from matte to bright to dull green, and perhaps this was just the bright stage.

Probably the cause was a number of things happening at once, and unfortunately some can't be corrected, and those that have been corrected may have been the root cause but not the ongoing cause. I changed too many things at once so it is very difficult to put my finger on one, which is why I decided to give the UV a go.

Are you ready for this? Do you really want to know? *sigh* cringe away.

The water supply here isn't the best, which would be #1 reason for the ongoing problem if I had to guess, but I monumentally compounded the issue by adding rocks with lichen (in my defence I am not a plant person and had assumed that the flat colouration was the place where lichen had been, not where it still was) which promptly rotted into fuzzy nothing, caused a massive cycle within hours that knocked off the two fairly hardy inhabitants before I spotted it. That took several weeks to settle, and the whole experience no doubt made the water nice and tasty. It was mildly cloudy at this point, but not visibly green, and became very close to clear after about 8 days. I thought it was just suspended particulate matter or a small bacterial bloom because (yes, it gets worse) my main filter was out of action and I was underfiltering. Oh, and I thought I'd switched over to proper aquarium lighting but discovered yesterday that I was still running the stock standard tubes that came with the ballast, so well and truly over 6 months old. Aaaand it is now next to a window, but it was next to a window before and this one gets no sun and the coverings are never opened, so I'm thinking that is not a factor, though given the incredibly long list of stuff-ups I thought it needed to be here.
Oh, and I did a WC a few days ago. This would be fine IF it hadn't just rained. Every time I do a WC after rain, I have serious WQ issues that either result in mass fin melt or algae or unexplained deaths. It was only a 30L change. The dam our water comes from has a 26km BGA bloom at the moment, so I'm guessing it is pretty delicious. When it rains, for a few days all you can smell is chlorine, which I guess is a drought measure, but this time I couldn't smell anything and forgot that it had rained.

*sigh* don't try to set up a tank when you haven't got your brain in gear, it is a flipping disaster

Still, the tank is happily cycled, overfiltered, no longer rotting, has the correct tubes, and is understocked and underfed.

I can't add plants because A) the majority, if not all of plant tanks have been exposed to plants from the property that gave me the blasted black algae last time and B) there is a rather destructive cray in there who would shred them to farm microbes. I can't add chemicals because of the cray. I can't afford diatom filters or RO setups or anything snazzy, and changing out water with spring water is going to get very expensive very quickly as it is a 55gal. Really, I thought this UV would be the ideal way to cut it down to a level where I could start to get a handle on the cause and rectify it (or at least minimise it), but the whole thing is making my brain ache!

I just can't get my head around why it would get noticeably worse in such a short space of time. I get the many and varied ways that it would have started and been perpetuated, but this is confusing.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

You'll be happy to know the window still contributes. I had a tank sitting near a small north facing window with curtains that were never opened. That side grew algae. The light around the window is still more than the rest of the room.

You did try a blackout right? That would be the easiest and cheapest way to deal with green water. Might have to cover the glass in black paper especially on the window side but that worked for me when everything else failed. Some really fine filter media would improve things some and could just be stuck on a modified cartridge or frame for an hob but would have to be rinsed at least once a day until the tank clears. Also I had to go hunting but I remembered this thread: http://fishprofiles.com/files/threads/13765.1.htm?27# from around the time I was trying to clear green water out of my 90g.

Hi
I'm sure you have checked out sites for "Green Water"
elimination and have worked your way through them eliminating
the causes of green water.

A properly functioning UV system will kill off the algae.

How fast depends upon several things:

The contact time (exposure to the light) determines
how well the Ultraviolet light works.
If you are using too powerful a water pump then the
water flows through too fast and nothing is killed off.

The strength (wattage) of the bulb also determines how
well it will function. Be sure that the wattage matches
the recommendations for that capacity tank.

How clean it is internally determines how well it will
work. If the previous owner has not cleaned the quartz
sleeve and water passages then the system may not work
as efficiently as it should.

Lastly the age of the bulb determines how well it will
work. Even more so than fluorescent lights, these bulbs
are only good for 6 months and then must be replaced.

From your description of the instructions, it sounds
like the UV Sterilizer was made in China. That is the
typical type of translation that we English speaking
folk get from them.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Does sound like the uv bulb has passed its best and is just supercharging the algae instead of killing it, either that or the flow rate through the chamber is too fast, and probably its just supercharging the algae again.

After rain eh? Sounds like youre getting phosphate fertiliser runoff into the water system. You could try stuff like rowaphos to get rid of it, it has the virtue of being cheap. Shouldnt affect water quality too much, you can get phosphate absorbant bags.

I have a phosphate pad here, but no test kit, and last time I checked both the tank and the tap (borrowed a kit) it was so low it almost didn't register, even though there was algae in every possible nook (black though, not green like this). I would have thought that was exactly what it was too, but nothing showed. I'll try a different kit to be certain, but if the first read was right , any other ideas? I'm out It does get less problematic if the water is aged for a week or so, so maybe something that breaks down in that time frame? At the moment I don't have anywhere large enough to store enough water for a change on this tank, but have just come up with a plan involving a pond pump, a barrel and a dolly, so fingers crossed!

I think you might be on to something with the speed at which it is passing through the chamber. The light is brand new out of the box, it was sealed when I got it, so I think the bulb is unlikely. It came with the most stupid stupid connectors (note the 3 hour connection time) small step-down ones for a 12mm tube, and the main ones were for something about 16mm or more with a nut to screw over that. The most I can say for it is that it did eventually work. The box said zippo about flow rate, so I was judging off the tube size and the flow rate of something with tubes that big.

From what info I can find on comparable devices (nothing on this one that is helpful) I think it might be 2x too fast Bugger.

Is there a minimum flow for these? It is a 9w, if that helps any. I have two pumps that I could use, but they are both designed for much much smaller setups. I think one is 400lph, not sure about the other.


So do you think the extra green was just co-incidence or would the minimal exposure have done something?


For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

What wattage bulbs do you have on the tank and how long are they usually on? If you're definite about sticking with no plants I would suggest reducing the lighting to the least amount possible. Light + nutrients (and nothing to take in the nutrients) = algae, there's not much of a way around that. Start out with no lights for a week and paint the three sides of your tank with water based black paint to avoid window light.

Then on the other hand you might want to try getting phosphate remover, it looks like little beads and goes in your filter and is often sold for saltwater tanks. If you can remove any phosphate possible you are taking away one good element of plant/algae growth.

Also do you have any nitrates? If you do lots of water changes, and keep nitrates down this will also help with the algae issue.

If all else fails or even if it doesn't you can try some floating plants such as duckweed. The crayfish may not bother with them and they will help remove any ammonia as soon as it is produced and use up other trace nutrients in the water too. Any ammonia at all can trigger an algae outbreak so cycling is usually when it starts up with a vengeance, with all the associated ammonia spikes. Totally avoiding ammonia will help keep algae from starting at all.

Dying algae from what I have experienced gets progressively browner (exception, brown algae which is actually diatoms). Greener means healthier.

If you decide to do plants again, consider using the ei method (estimative index). This makes it relatively easy to keep a tank algae free for the most part.

Can't be much more definite about the plants I'm afraid, I'd love them, but it just won't work. I have duckweed in there already (about 2/3rds covered I'd say) and I'll try to get some safe hornwort to float, but that is all I can really do in the way of plants. It isn't even a matter of tasty/non-tasty plants, unless they float it won't work, and floating plants are very limited here. All the fast-growing ones are banned, or are native and unsuited to coldwater or tank lighting (or closed lids to keep crustaceans in and cats out).

The lights are on for about 4 hours of an evening, usually only one tube, and there is an Aquaglo and a Powerglo in there (40w) HOWEVER this is of 2 days ago. Before that they were two 12 month old Atman 40w tubes, so well past needing replacing, and they were on maybe every 3 days for a few hours. The room itself is quite dark until about midday, and sometimes past that. This tank isn't on a timer so they just get flicked on when I'm around. It is blacked on one side already, I can do another two but isn't it just going to bounce straight back once it is removed if this is just a matter of ambient lighting?

I have phosphate pad (see last post ) Re-testing ASAP. Anything else that would be worth checking for?

I don't have nitrates building up as it is a pretty new tank, however my tap water does, so until it actually builds up a bit through cycling it will be replacing nitrates with nitrates. It isn't dreadful, but it is less than ideal.

This jumped after the cycle (2nd time around, the lichen issue as above), but this massive increase in green-ness hasn't really co-incided with any spikes, it is about 2 weeks out of whack. Back to the water supply though, it has chloramines and since I just used a chemical that could have been yet another hiccup.

Um, 2 things before I burst. I hate this tank and I hate this water supply. Never had an issue with algae before this tank. Smaller tanks or with my old water supply (same dam, different area), but this one has just been hard work from the get go. Same water supply in other tanks, same positioning, even roughly the same setup on a smaller scale, all fine and dandy. This one just will not behave! Granted I've made almost every mistake possible, but still Whoever said larger tanks are easier to maintain was fibbing! Give me a 20 any day!

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Quick update, Git I think you got it. I turned the silly thing off after discovering that any tube that would fit it would not then fit the pump, and lo and behold it has almost cleared.

I think the comment on the ammonia kicking it off was probably dead on the money too. No doubt every other thing contributed in some way, but at least with both of those things fixed I think I'm seeing the back of it.

Thanks for the help

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Yeah , I think it takes around 14 -16 watt to be effective at 400 gph, most uv systems are really hopelessly underrated, or for use with crummy pond filters that have pitiful pumps in them. Few seem truly suitable for high flow rate aquaria, and the best UV sterilisers for disease prevention are in a different league altogether with the uv exposure plates being a couple of millimetres apart.

Recently got given an 8 watt unit to go with a 1000 gph filter, and frankly, its going straight in the bin. Might work attached to a different mini pump, but the headaches of doing a heath robinson series of adapters that will be both large and hideously ugly just turs me right off the idea. Might be useful for someone who actually wants to breed hundreds of ottos lol.

I bet if you just keep controlling the phosphate things will turn out ok. Whether you ran UV or not in your situation , youd still get loads of algae attached, creeping across just about every available surface anyway. For the health of your crustacea, youd be better off controlling the phosphate directly anyway.

I don't think eliminating nitrates would actually help a lot anyway, come to think of it. Some algae can fix their own nitrogen, so eliminating nitrates wouldn't really help a whole lot if that's the type of algae you have.