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I need help. I'm setting up a discus tank and my water won't fully cycle. It's been cycling for 2 and a half months and the ammonia is up but the nitrites won't form. The problem I think is my pH. I had sand in the tank and my pH was extremely high. I changed the sand to gravel and added drift wood to soften the water, but my pH is still very high. I've added pH down several times but it keeps shooting up. I have five giant danios in the tank right now. Its 40 gallons (I only intend to keep 3 to 4 discus) and I have an aquar clear filter. I have an 8 inch aeration stick and no plants at the moment (i plan to plant the tank with live plants when I have the water stable). My tank right now is at 78 degrees although I am aware that Discus require 82-86, I'm going to raise it when I'm ready but the danios weren't doing good with the temperature. Any suggestions would help please I'm very frustrated.

What pH does the water come out of the tap? It might be difficult to lower the pH of water that is already high, especially if it's hard or otherwise buffered.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

The water from the tap is around 7. I set up two tanks at the same time, this one and a larger one. The other tank is perfectly fine I've had fish in it for two weeks and they are doing great.

Hmmm.

What kind of gravel is this? Is it the same as in the other tank?

If you removed all the sand and the sand was causing the pH to rise, then presumably the pH should go back down after a few water changes.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Its the same type of gravel, a different color though. I'm thinking about doing a 50 % change tomorrow and hopefully that will help.

Are you using the strip of paper tests or a liquid drop test kit? I've found that some test kits don't measure as well as others.

What are your ammonia levels? Are they adult giant danios or juvis?


2 months does sound way too long. You may need to do a few 50% water changes over a few days time, don't do it all at once, and you will basically be starting the cycling process over again.

^_^

Hi,
Everyone has had some good points in their replies to your
question. Please note that phrases such as "Good, OK,
just fine, and very high" do not help very much when
trying to give specific assistance. It leaves one with
giving generalities that a person must interpret.

Water from most taps is chemically altered to come out
around a 7. As the water ages, after leaving the pipes,
it will change or reach equilibrium. It's best to draw
a clean glass (glass is inert) of water, and leave it
set out for 24 hours before testing. During that 24 hours
you need to guard against someone sipping from it including
household pets and contamination by cooking byproducts
smoke, grease, etc.

Test kits, as hinted at, are subject to contamination
by moisture, light, heat, and as mentioned, age. The test
kits that use strips are especially vulnerable to these
contamination problems. Kits that use liquids are a little
more stable and give better results. Even better, and
much more expensive, are kits that are made of little
sealed packets (frequently called "pillows" of chemicals
that you mix with a given amount of water.

Water that comes out at a 7 and degases to a higher pH
is normal in many areas of the country and generally comes
from areas that include carbonate rocks such as limestone
and/or dolomite and some shales. To bring the pH down into
the 6's one must use either chemicals such as "PH Down",
or do it naturally, by passing the tank water through peat
moss, and liberal use of driftwood. The amount of tannic
acid the wood produces depends upon the type of wood and
how "fresh" it is. Over time, as the acid leaches out of
the wood into the water, the amount of acid will reduce
to almost nothing and its effect on lowering the pH becomes
nil.

"Gravel" can cause the pH to climb if it is composed of
carbonates such as limestone, dolomite, some shales, coral,
or even shell debris. Colored gravel should be suspect
particularly if the paint coating is able to be dissolved
over time in water. Only colored gravel coated with epoxy
paint should be used in an aquarium. Check the bag.
Quartz based gravel, in the #2 and #3 grain size
( 2 or 3mm in diameter) is considered by most to be
the optimum for a tank. That grain size will not
compact as gravel in the "sand" size will.
Larger grain sizes, into the pebble size, provides
increasingly less and less of a medium for plants
to anchor themselves in and more and more of a
trap for detritus (gunk) to accumulate that will
pollute the tank.
Quartz based gravel, actually Silica Dioxide
SiO2, is inert and will do nothing to affect the
water chemistry.

Cycling a tank, especially a larger tank, actually takes
quite a few, good size, fish to produce measurable amounts
of urine that contains ammonia. I suspect that could be
your problem, perhaps, along with a suspect test kit.
Today, the best way is to perform a "Fish-less" cycle. It
is faster, and the end result is a cycled tank, without
fish one generally does not want.
Fish-less cycling:
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html


Because of the increased temperature of the water, some
plants will not do well. This is a link to AZGardens
for a typical discus tank. It contains very brief facts
about the fish and their needs, but more specifically, a
list of plants that will do well in their tank.

http://www.azgardens.com/c-65-discus-aquarium-plant-habitat-packages.aspx

While I've probably offered nothing new by way of answer,
I have tried to explain the "whys" and logic behind
everyone's replies, and maybe offered an insight or two
as to a resolution of your problems.

Hope I helped...
Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thank you everybody for all your help. After two 50% water changes I am happy to report that my pH is 6.5. It seems steady but I'll let you guys know if it spikes again. Thanks again!! The ammonia is still way up and the nitrite is at zero still, but if I can keep the pH steady I'm confident the cycling will be done soon.