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I know that many LFS's can and do sell goldfish for bowls. Fortuantly the one i work at has a "right to refuse" policy
and i am very willing to inforce it, getting a goldfish from me is like trying to adopt a child for the state. (i have been told this by customers a few times. )
Fish are not disposable pets people
ok.... thats out of my system

Ps. i did hear that Rome Italy made keeping a goldfish in a bowl against the law. point for our side
petstoregirl80

Hooray for Rome!

Good for you for enfourcing that policy.

Inky

That's so awesome!!

Sometimes, I secretly wish these small (less than 10 gallons) tanks would be outlawed. I know that a lot of folks plant these things and just put a betta in there, but far too many noobs buy these tiny tanks and cram fish in them because they don't know any better. It makes me sad.

---

~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

If anyone kept a small puppy in a box very long, they would be arrested on cruelty charges. Just imagion what it would be like if they enforced that rule with fish.... I have heard several very sad (one excessivly idiotic) stories about fishes.

Inky

You guys really make me feel better about my thoughts and feelings from working in a LFS. People out there just don't know and socity makes us the smart guys and gals look like mean people. I get really fed up with people not having any kind of clue.

There are always thoughs people out there that don't care what you have to say either. (Today for example: People bought two 9G tanks yesterday and used water from an existing tank to seed it a little. This doesn't mean that you can cramp 10 fish in there on the 2nd day!)

I almost find it nice making people feel like crap when I tell them that all the inner organs of a gold fish are going to be crushed when you put it in a small body of water. (is that bad of me?)

There is a lot of us floating in the same boat. I know it sucks just as much as you guys do. Hang in there. Change one person at a time! Good luck everyone! Keep your cool!

Wings

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

all you have to do is when they ask for goldfish, point them over to a brand new 125 gallon.

Has any one every sugested/tryed breading fish smaller. In a sens making 'mini' goldfish which can be kept in small tanks or am i just nuts?

i doubt it can be done, and by breeding using selective breeding, would be hard as you would have to look for a small adult breeding goldfish.

I think selective breeding would be made even harder by the fact that it would be difficult to tell whether a fish is small naturaly or just stunted.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

Large fish + Large fish doesnt equal small fish ^_^

Inky

I just thought I would suggest it. If people want to keep goldfish in a bowl and we can never stop them so at least make the fish of the right size for the tank insted Most people want the instant aquarium solution A small easy to maintain fast to set up aquarium with colourful fish which eat the 99c flakes and live in any water After all I was like that then I started learning and found out how truly time consuming and expensive it was

Alot of fish will readily eat cheap flakes. If they want a simple, easy, colorful fish, they should get a 5g Minibow kit and 6 neons or a male betta (after its cycled for a week of corse). ^_^ There are plenty of fish that will work out in small tanks that are easy to care for!

Inky

For some even that is huge (what would they say if they saw what tanks the pros keep) and an unbelievable burden You can't put the blame on anyone really the shops need to sell the people want fish and people don't have a clue that there is any education most think it is simply fish+bowl+food+a change of water when it turns green=happy healthy fish (which you replace every couple of months) I was a bit like that then my trust for knowledge set me in search and I found this site amongst many others and my knowledge experience and collection of the things you need to keep things going grew

It all began with a 2g jar my dad got free and spoting a bag of fish for sall at about $3 for 5 fish which semed tiny for the jar

I had a goldie in a 1g, I loved him so much, his name was Tenshi (Angel in Japanese). Got him for 28 cents at walmart. If only I had known

Inky

Sick of it? I'm bloody living it mate, im looking after the gf's sisters goldfish while she moves house. Just look at this...


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a245/longhairedgit/IMG_5839.jpg

...and thats how it looks now with me doing a rush job, you should have seen it before!

To be fair, once I cleaned up the tank ,threw out the dead plants, cleaned the mould from the hood,fixed the light fitting, changed the gravel,removed about 2 pints of orange slimy mulm, removed the algae from all sides including a 4 mm thick 2 foot wide plate of it on the back panel, removed the limescale, killed off the black fungus, threw in about £30 of ph, kh , and nitrate balancing chemicals,changed the water completely by percentages over several days, and replaced the filter with one that was actually cycled and not full of red algae,the water is now testing ammonia and nitrite 0 , nitrate 20 ppm.

Having read the results from the test kit, my first words were - "mother of god!" Before I fixed it the nitrate was over 400ppm , and ammonia was high enough to kill most fish and the nitrite reading frankly gave me the shivers . Hes been constipated, now cured with addition of some live and fresh food to the diet, a load of dewormer, (he passed an 11 inch roundworm!). The venturi nozzle on the eheim provides more air than hes ever had before because before he could barely move and now it seems like hes become an olympic athlete.That is one TOUGH fish. His cage mate (yes there were two in there!) died months ago.

Hes no pond fish, I doubt he'd survive outdoors in the uk,hes just not fit enough yet,and he'd be dead in winter being a deformed mutant of a fancy goldfish.As far as im concerned this tennis ball with fins is about as far as you get from a carrassius auratus. I was worried he'd survive the intensive detox as it is.I'm really giving the owner no end of hassle until they cough up for at least a 55 gallon for him.

The sad thing is that if you really know what your doing you can actually get a tank that small balanced, but people tend to not only choose an undersized tank, but not do any essential maintenance that might make it work. Compared to a couple of weeks ago this is like a completely different fish.

Rest assured I will be the gf's sisters own personal plague until this sort of thing stops.Thankfully she has a new boyfriend who has a capacious wallet and is learning to keep fish with my help, hes quite the anal retentive and im sure he will keep things on the straight and narrow, hes also thinking about starting a coldwater community, so the future looks much brighter for the fish.

Like I said. Livin it. GRRRRR.

OK, now that I've learned something, I think quite a few people here will wonder what I was doing as a teenager when I put four Goldfish in a 24" x 12" x 12" bowfronted aquarium. But, before you all shake your heads - this aquarium had both undergravel filtration and a power filter. The power filter was a HOB unit that turned over something like 50 gallons per hour (an old Rena unit if I remember correctly - wonder if Rena are still trading?). At the time I thought I was doing well by my Goldfish because I was giving them decent filtration (I'd seen some of the small bowls etc., and winced even back then, and consequently thought my Goldfish aquarium was quite well appointed). Now I wonder how many other people put Goldfish in an aquarium with a power filter when I was a teenager? For that matter, how many people put Goldfish in an aquarium with a power filter now (other than the Goldie keepers here?)

OK, in time, that 24" x 12" x 12" bowfront (it was a bowfront that went from a minimum width of 12" to a maximum of 15" - and looking through it was interesting to say the least!) would have become a bit cramped for the Goldfish. But they'd still have been a LOT better off than some of the Goldfish I've read about here.

Now, of course, if I was setting up a Goldfish aquarium, I'd be looking at 48 inches as a minimum length. But hey, I thought I was doing the right thing giving them both a UGF and a power filter - and I was probably doing better by my Goldfish than many others!

Plus, how many other Goldfish got live Daphnia to eat when I was a teen? Answers on a postcard please to ...

Oh, by the way, I wouldn't ban small tanks. Small tanks have their uses in wise hands. Perhaps a better way of moving forward would be to make prospective new fishkeepers take an exam first


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I agree... Fish Keeper and Fish Seller lisenses!

Inky

Its funny isnt it. I remember my dad having 7 goldies with an average length of about 4 inches in a 25 gal when I was a kid, they lasted that way for years ( probably being horribly dwarfed) with only a small rena airline powered filter, some fish flake by tetra and some "dried daphnia" which to the best of my recollection were actually just dry roasted ant eggs with no nutritive value whatsover. Hey, it was the 70's. Decoration was the most fake rock stack youve ever seen made from some sort of dried putty, and the plants were , well A plant, namely a singular sprig of elodea. He did do water changes, but about one a month in the amount of approximately two pints. Ironically they all died within two months of being put in a pond. Presumably the clean water went to their heads.lol.


I often wondered how much of the claims about goldies are true and Ive been using the last few weeks to get some data on the tank with the orange turnip in it as pictured in the chunk of my text above.

So here goes. In that 2 foot tank this 6-7 inch goldie, maxes out the filter performance ( four chambered eheim aquaball with carbon) and gets detectable ammonia in about 8 days without a water change. He also raises the nitrate by about 10 ppm PER DAY!! Im using tetrabalance too! I can just keep things under control by doing water changes every 4 days. And im feeding him the minimum, cos frankly, he's a fat little git. Bearing in mind that setup could handle the waste from about 30 neon tetras, about 9 dwarf gouramies etc, without breaking a sweat ( not that it would be humane) theres no way this is a good aquarium fish for less than a four footer, and preferably a six. He is an absolute ammonia producing machine. Granted my house is hot, and even without a heater his water temp is about 78f at the moment and this is accelerating his metabolism, but thats deliberate, he has been very ill. From that I assume most people must lose their fish in summer.

Having said that, these inbred goldfish must have incredibly high tolerances, which is lucky given the circumstances.

Presumably to keep that fish to modern standards its gonna take at least a 55 gallon and at least a 2224 eheim, preferably a 2228. Thats for one bloody goldfish!

I found this website, it recommands 10 -20 Gallons per fish but I can't find anything else that says 55G per fish.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/care.html#Bowl%20vs%20tank

there was loads about not keeping them in bowls though so that is positive!

GFG

ps Calilasseia- I kept goldfish in all kinds of inhumane set ups poor fish, they really are tough! and thankfully many ended up in my mate's Dad pond!

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

10-20 gal per fish is VERY off. Givin a 10g is better than a 1g, but a common goldie needs at least a 55g for one fish reason being that they can get to be a good foot in length. Actually, there not ment for tanks in the first place they are POND FISH, or fish that go into ponds ^_^

Inky

lol I can just imagine a fully grown comet in a 20 gal, - it wouldnt even be able to turn around in a tank that small, and the water chemistry from even a shorter bodied fancy adult goldie would go toxic in a couple of days..

We have a thai restaurant in cheltenham and they have about 8 adult goldies in a 125, and I have to say even that looks totally overcrowded, and the water varies between misty hell and algal hell. They have a huge filter too, and its obviously not coping. I assume if they had only 80 gals they would have been dead long ago, and I have a feeling they wont last much longer anyway. I reckon those fish will need a 300 gal plus just to stay stable.

That tank must be very stinky, givin how much waste a goldfish can produce

I'm thinking of doing a goldie facts website, to help people with goldfish as pets and to improve awareness of anti-bowls. I found a TON of hard-copy sources, and I'm hoping to find more evidence elsewhere online. Any suggestions?

Inky