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this was copied off another forum, i think we need to get behind it or risk losing many of our fish
the link going to the grey list requires you to download the pdf at the bottom of the page

the original can be seen here http://www.perthcichlid.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=20326&pid=106711&st=0&#entry106711

ALL FISH HOBBYISTS - YOU NEED TO KNOW THIS URGENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last week representatives of the pet industry attended a meeting in Canberra with officials from Department of the Environment & Water & also the Bureau of Rural Sciences. We are advised from this meeting that they intend, effective 7th November, to recategorise ALL of the fish species currently on their "Grey List" as "Noxious".

This would result in all of these fish being illegal to sell or even keep privately, with the sanctions of fines & possible convictions for anyone caught doing so, & the seizing & destroying of the fish.

The full grey list can be viewed on http://www.brs.gov.au/ornamental , but includes amongst others most of the large American cichlids, all arowanas, bichirs, knifefish, stingrays, eels, koi & a number of large catfish & "exotics". In effect almost all large fish kept in the hobby today.

It is also important to stress that this list is not final, & other species can be added later.

If allowed to proceed this legislation will decimate our hobby, & if this is of concern to you we need your help to stop it. One of the major problems is that the Government Departments have mainly consulted wholesalers who are not badly effected by the fish listed, & we need to ensure that they learn just how much opposition is out there to this proposal.

THE ONLY THING THAT WILL STOP THIS OUTRAGE IS IF WE BURY THE DEPARTMENTS & MINISTER IN objectIONS. Hobbyists, retailers & aquarium societies are all banding together to give a unified response to achieve adequate consultation.

Attached please find a pro forma letter that we would urge you sign & email to the parties listed, & preferably also your local member as well. Of course feel free to add your comments or write your own if you prefer.
Please also tell anyone eelse you know & ask them to help - part of the problem is no -one has been warned this was coming, & they have given us so little time to respond.

PLEASE ACT NOW - AFTER 7th NOVEMBER IT WILL BE TOO LATE. Don't leave it to others - we need every voice we can muster, only weight of numbers will make a difference.



Email contacts are:-

tony.burke.mp@ach.gov.au

peter.garrett.mp@environment.gov.au

nick.gascoigne@environment.gov.au

anthony.moore@brs.gov.au



For the attention of :-

Mr Anthony Burke, Minister DAFF, PO Box 6022, Parliament House, Canberra, 2600
Mr Peter Garrett, Minister DEWHA, PO Box 6022, Parliament House, Canberra,2600
Mr Anthony Moore, Bureau of Rural Science, GPO Box 858 Canberra 2601
Mr Nick Gascoine, Department of Environment, Water, Heritage & the Arts GPO Box 787, Canberra, ACT,2601


Dear Sirs,

Re ; Proposed extension of the Australian & National Noxious Fish List

It has been brought to my attention that your department(s) intend to upgrade all of the fish species currently on the National Grey List to the category of Noxious, & I wish to object & oppose such action.

I am alarmed that this intention was only made known to a few industry representatives last week yet is proposed to be finalised by 7th November. This is clearly inadequate time for all interested parties to be informed & respond, & I preface my objections with a request that any decisions be delayed for sixty days to enable fair & reasonable consultation. I note also that to date that consultation which has occurred has mainly been with parties such as industry wholesalers who are largely unaffected by the proposal, & you need to be made aware of the very large number of retailers, hobbyists & members of aquarium societies who will be adversely affected.

- Unlike the current Noxious list, the proposed extension now includes many widely owned aquarium species, & many of the most prized & valuable in the hobby. Fish such as the American Cichlids, Arowanas, Stingrays,Knifefish, Eels, Bichirs & others form the heart of the collections of most serious aquarists, & are the economic mainstay of many aquarium retailers. Indeed many retailers would struggle to survive this proposal, particularly the specialist retailers who cannot generate sufficient profit if deprived of their most valuable sales. Note also that many hobbyists have tens ( & some hundreds) of thousands of dollars worth of fish in their collections, which value your proposal would wipe out over night.

- Any recategorisation should be on a species by species basis, not a blanket ban, & the "scientific" basis for such action needs to be both reasonable & transparent, & widely consulted rather than just an arbitrary subjective departmental opinion. Many of these species could not survive &/or reproduce in our waterways - due to temperature, water chemistry & predators - & even of those that theoretically could many have been kept as pets here for decades without problem.

- How can one reasonably claim the listed fish are worse than many not targeted, or is the ultimate intention to ban all non-native Australian fish? How can it be that a common goldfish is not banned when it can & does live in our colder & polluted waterways. Taken to it's logical conclusion are we to tell all pet shops in Australia they cannot sell goldfish, & all Australian children that they cannot have a goldfish in a bowl?

- Far from protecting our environment the proposal will have the opposite effect. Regrettably it will spawn a black market just as has occurred with reptiles & birds, & remove any chance of proper regulation. And fish which are today very valuable & unlikely to be released in waterways will become worthless & in the hands of many alienated hobbyists.

Certainly there are species on your list that need attention, but there are many that do not, & thought also needs to be given to alternatives such as registration, micro-chipping & perhaps even sterilization of some other more questionable species. I urge you to take a far more considered & informed approach to this issue.

Yours Faithfully



hi
woot woot woot woot woot woot

How can one reasonably claim the listed fish are worse than many not targeted, or is the ultimate intention to ban all non-native Australian fish? How can it be that a common goldfish is not banned when it can & does live in our colder & polluted waterways. Taken to it's logical conclusion are we to tell all pet shops in Australia they cannot sell goldfish, & all Australian children that they cannot have a goldfish in a bowl?

Lets be fair here, they are banning large, predatorial fish that are banned or restricted in most states anyway. I'm not for this being passed in this way (I fully believe that the pet industry is merely an annoyance in relation to aquaculture and harvest industries) however that is more because it will only really affect people who self-police and just drive the rest to black market dealings, as is currently the way we deal with restricted and/or declared noxious fish. There aren't enough officers to enforce the existing laws regarding noxious fish, so this is just never going to work.

And to anyone sending this - change the goldfish line, it is somewhat aggressive and does not read well. It reduces the serious tone of the letter to something of "would you hurt this kitten?" which is not what you are aiming for. Actually, that whole section quoted almost suggests that more things need banning rather than less, perhaps not what was intended?

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

I will look into this as I am so against banning any type of living thing, However as I am also a realist I know we need to control some things ( kangaroo's being an example )

Personally if the government want to do it they will and Calla is right it will just up the black market.

Pity we couldnt cull the morons in some government departments

that sucks,ive kept/keep most of those fish,large predators,arrowanas,my freind and i have a gar,ect,ect!why cant they just leave our fishies alone,ill have a look into this,and see what the go is,thanx for the heads up...

i cant find the list,as it has sa/ca cichlids on it,id love to see it...

You will possibly find in the long term a lot of these fish will be baned as far as importation and fish keepers will also not be allowed to sell or give or exchange at all also possibly be registered.

The major problem is that many of these fish have or can be released into the wild. Just think what happens in a flood or stupid fish keepers who just toss them out.

Some groups have been trying for years to ban Rainbow and Brown being released into our water ways.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

As far as I'm aware, other than incredibly special cases, the fish are already banned from import.


LIST (Found on Plecofanatics - official one at the end of this free pdf - http://www.affashop.gov.au/product.asp?prodid=13332)


: All red devil species ...

: Chichlasoma (Amphilophus) zaliosum
: " " (Caquetaia ) kraussii
: " " spectabilis
: " " umbrifferum

All Cichla species ...

All Crenicichla species ...

Herichthys cyanoguttatum

Parachromis Dovii
" " Managuenese
" " motoguense

Petenia Splendida
All fire eels ...
All tyre track eels

ALL KLOWN KINIFE FISH SPECIES ...

Arapaima gigas

ALL AROWANA SPECIES STH AMERICAN & ASIAN ...

Pangasius sanitwongsii ( hi fin blue sharks )

All Brachyplatystoma species of Catfish ...

Leiarius marmoratus catfish

Redtail catfish species ...

All chaca chaca species

All tiger shovel nose catfish

All planiceps catfish

All birchir species

All freshwater stingray species ...

All Ompok catfish species

All freshwater puffer species ....



Really, I'm not seeing the point. There are so few of most of these fish around, and they demand such high prices because if it, nobody in their right mind would release them. Plenty of people are set up for tankbusters and could take the excessively large fish, I just don't get it

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

texas cichlids are also on the list. i just bought one today becuse of this

i was going to buy a red devil but the only one the lfs had was a foot long male that was labled as 'unsociable'. and they had run out of spiney eels. i told the manager about this and he said he will order as much of the fish as he can (he loves monster fish)

hi
woot woot woot woot woot woot

just about all my fav fish are on that list...also im confused,if these fish are illegal for import,how do the local fish stores sell them,they have umbee,red devils,dovi,all for sale at any given time..

there are alot of people who breed these fish in oz, but don't mention it to anyone. i was going to set up a breeding operation for red devils, until someone bought the last female at the lfs.

hi
woot woot woot woot woot woot

and koi are on the list too. there goes the koi society, and the koi farm near newcastle.

i read on the NSW Department of Primary Industries website about live platies being found in drains around newcastle, in winter. they said in the article about the threat of them spreading into creeks, rivers and lakes, because of their rapid breeding capabilities. why arn't these on the list then, they seem to pose a greater threat than expensive and rare fish that would be highly prized by their keepers, rather than the platies and similar fish that are cheap, and commonly found in many aquariums owned by inexperienced or uncaring fishkeepers? (or 'fish havers')

hi
woot woot woot woot woot woot

If this law went through, then why not illegalise alasatians, rottwielers, and great danes, if they escaped from domestic confines they would reak havoc on native wildlife. Also would ban cats, as they are killers of native birds. Though that won't happen, cause everyone has a cat or dog
A black market will be created by this law as it is unpoliceable, like prohibition was in America in the 30s.
Imagine this headline:
"local police today raided several homes involved in a suspected red devil dealing ring, over 7000L of tanks were confiscated"

These fish aren't on the legal import list. Any that are available are either being bred here or being imported under a different name past AQIS inspectors that don't know a koi from a comet (or being smuggled without going through quarantine at all, which is just idiotic, but explains how we've ended up with many non-bread-and-butter fish and shrimp over the years)

Koi are banned in all but 2 states anyway, so a full ban was bound to happen at one point.

There is talk of microchipping and licencing for existing specimens, so it isn't all doom and gloom, however this is still rumour and given that previous things have been declare and destroy, I can't say I'm filled with hope.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

i don't want to lose my koi

must buy more koi
must breed koi
must fill swimming pool with koi
must sell koi on black market

hi
woot woot woot woot woot woot

I think it would be sad to see the koi fish banned from australia as I think they are a lovely fish, I have friends that have huge man made ponds and beautiful fish,

I was actually under the impression that they were going to allow them in other states hmmmmm more research

Well that'd be another option. I don't think they are going to move everything from the grey list to noxious listing.

I think the koi problem has to do with differentiating domestic koi carp and the european carp that is already a pest in many waterways.

Any more info on this Linnie? Most things I can find at the moment are regurgitated fearmongering (which may or may not be warranted, until someone from DAFF sends out a press release, we won't know)

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Can anyone provide a link to verify this 7 November date and exactly what is going to occur or be enacted on that date?

I've been doing some trolling of various government, industry and hobbyist websites. I have been able to find the policy paper 'A strategic approach to the management of ornamental fish in Australia' (DAFF, Nov 2006) which discusses options and makes various recommendations. I've found lots of rumours and hearsay. What I haven't been able to find is something concrete that sets out exactly what is going to happen and when, if the relevant group/person has actually made a decision on the recommendations contained in the policy paper, how any decision is to be enacted (ie via changes to legislation or a policy statement or whatever) etc.

I don't like the sound of some of the things I'm reading, but I want to know as many of the facts as possible before I go making any decisions or acting on any of it.

G_T

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

Reckon it'd be worth ringing them GT? I considered it but I figured that they'd have copped such an earful this week that nobody would be in the mood to clarify the situation.

Maybe contacting state fisheries might be a better option?

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

I think you're right Callatya. I'll see what I can find out from the NT aquatic pests people if I get a chance tomorrow. Right now my eyes are going fuzzy from searching and reading some of this bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo.

Is anyone here a PIAA member? it appears that they have been consulted on / involved with this but there's nothing that I could find in the public section of the PIAA website. Maybe there's a discussion paper or something in the members-only area ??

G_T

EDIT: I've just looked at the time - maybe that's why my eyes are fuzzy

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

ahhh ok,well i dont care what they say,or what law gets passed or brought in,im not giving up my fish,not a chance in hell.... all the years,time,effort,reading,reserching,breeding,keeping,then some jerk is guna say you cant have these fish,no way!....its always the people doing silly things like letting fish go into the wild,that spoil it for the good people like us....