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Thanks for the tank comments.


Some of those plant suggestions would definitely work, my only issue with this tank right now is light. Right now I have an 18watt coralife fixture on top. Not sure if I want to bump it up or keep it low light, low maintenance. I ditched the desklamp more for aestitic reasons outside the tank then anything else.

This is far from "done" and I will be adjusting things over the next few weeks.

GirlieGirl8519,
The pool filter sand works out fine. It's really like very small gravel, but gives the appearance of sand.
But I think using it successfully is dependent on a few.

1.In the areas thats that aren't planted keep the sand very low
2.Have something that might stir the sand up to eliminate anaerobic activity (Bensaf recommends MTS)
3.Keep up with water changes and gravel washes.
4.Keep lowest fish load possible.


My Scapes

Thanks for the tips on the sand...I'll remember those when I'm planning this tank.

*Kristin*

Take Two:

I've fine-tuned this tank a bit and I'm starting to get excited about it. The java covered rocks have been piled higher against the main rock to give it a steeper more rugged mountainous look. The beach to the lower right is more clearly defined with the curves of the shoreline.
I also rotated the rock slightly to show off a more interesting edge. The highest rock to the left will soon be covered completely in java moss to complete the mountainous look. A few more small pieces of rock have been added here and there on the mountain for definition and depth. I will eventually allow some java to cover the left face of the rock to soften it and blend it more into the overall terrain.

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Looking very nice tetratech

You sure made this tank much bigger than it really is (mine look mostly smaller than they are ). I like the end of a mountain range falling down towards a beach layout. It is a very nice theme in nature that pretty much every person appreciates (like the Cliffs in Dover, England, or the Main coast line in the area of Arcadia National Park).

Question: albeit I am sure that the moss is growing slowly, what is your trimming process?

On a little side note: I think that the enourmous black border you put around the picture is counter-functional. The larger-than-life tank seems to be shrinking. But maybe that is only my skewed visual taste

Otherwise, really really nice,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the comments LF

Question: albeit I am sure that the moss is growing slowly, what is your trimming process?

Most of the time I simply trim the areas with a scissor that I could reach, but the beauty of this setup is that each rock has it's own hairnet, so when I can't trim in the tank I simply remove that one rock, gravel wash under it, trim it and put it back in.

Kinda of experimenting with different looks that's the reason for the big black border. Thanks for your comments on that as well.

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I am always worried about my mosses if they are close to the ground. I found that they are rather invasive and in particular in my 29G experience other plans dying from moss tangling up all around them.

Having them on rocks and avoiding that they grow into each other, in a sense of interconnecting the rocks and as such more or less locking them in place, seems to be a great solution to avoid my issues.

I still find bits and pieces of Xmas Moss in my 125, although it is over 20 weeks ago that I removed Rock Valley, its original host rocks.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Having them on rocks and avoiding that they grow into each other, in a sense of interconnecting the rocks and as such more or less locking them in place, seems to be a great solution to avoid my issues.

I think it works, although I feel stupid going into drugstores and buying hairnets . Next I'll be wearing skirts like Bensaf It's so much easier than using string. So far I've never had a problem with the nets although there is always the possibilty that a kuli loach can get stuck in one.




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I am getting pretty good at the string thing. All I do is that I make a loop that I can tighten, then wrap it around the rock and plant, tighten it, and depending on the plant that needs attachment (moss, fern, anubias) I may wrap it around this combination a few times. I don't even make a knot in the other end, I finish the string so that it is on the bottom of the rock and that keeps all in place. Tying up all these Anubias and Ferns in the 40G took much less time than planting the crazy Micro Swords, 100 plugs of them .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok, Is it just me or does that big rock look like a monkey skull.

I swear its damn eyes are following me

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ok, Is it just me or does that big rock look like a monkey skull.

Oh here we go again. When the rock was in my 72g with rotala r behind it Nowher thought it looked like Hendrix now you think it looks like a monkey skull. I thinking your tripping man. I have to rotate it a little more to get rid of that perception. The moss is going to start climbing up it soon so I'm thinking it might end up looking like that tomb in "Raiders of the lost arc" with the vines everywhere. Geez try to do something different and everyone's got serious psychological issues.

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I thinking your tripping man.

You beat me to it

Thanks a lot, now that's all I can see when I look at it!


p.s. I like it, looks great besides the whole monkey skull thing...

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Back in the saddle!

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I've tried to learn the planted tank ways, but your all against me, even my master. Uncle Ben (Obi-One) is jealous because he found out about my midichlorine count and it blows away his puny I.Q. That's it, you've pushed me to the Darkside of the Moss.

Please look for my new 46 Gallon Reef Log coming soon at a marine aqua Forum near you.



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Please look for my new 46 Gallon Reef Log coming soon at a marine aqua Forum near you.

Woot!/:'

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

WOW coming along nicely!!!


Okay so now that your down to only 18 watts,which if i remember correctly, you'll have about a lil over 1 watt, you could prolly still put a nice bunch plant behind the mountain. did you ever think of maybe val. spiralis? might be intresting

Anywho i have a question...im setting up my 55 gallon and want to do the whole sand thing but i wanted to know would you personally mix some laterite into the bottom half? or my other thing would be to use onyx sand?

Tetra sorry if im might be stealing your forum but the question was to you but i know Ben and LF come here i figured they would help to.

But yeah i really do like the tank...i might do a ten gallon this way...just to give it a try.

We're there any plants that you have or had in the tank that have done really well for you? and how is the algae problem going? got it delt with and how did you do it?



Keep it up Tetra and i'll be back hoping to see another pic soon of how it's looking

Anywho i have a question...im setting up my 55 gallon and want to do the whole sand thing but i wanted to know would you personally mix some laterite into the bottom half? or my other thing would be to use onyx sand?

If you mix laterite with sand you'll probably end up with the laterite on top and the sand on the bottom since the smaller grain sand will work it's way thru the laterite during gravel washes, etc. It really depends on how much your planting, ferts, co2, everything. I believe Bensaf has a beautiful "hotch-potch" of plants in all sand.

We're there any plants that you have or had in the tank that have done really well for you? and how is the algae problem going? got it delt with and how did you do it?

Haven't had much in there other than the javamoss since I went to 18w. I could probably put some stems in there, but right now I like the simplicity of the rock and moss. When I had the 27watts I had rotala r and armomatic and they both grew. I might go that route again, because I'm toying with the idea of getting a 28watt coralife cf fixture.



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What I do ???

I like the tank, it's a really nice natural well laid out tank. Simple and effective.

I ain't out to get you.I love it

It's ...just....the eyes....the eyes....they....follow me....every....where......

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

lol okay cool hope to get some new pics of the tank after you get the new tinkering done i might do the java moss rocks in my tank as well

**Warning**
The following pictures might be scary. Some people see monkey skulls. You've been warned

Anyway some updated pics of my 12g since I moved it from the bedroom upstairs to a part of my kitchen downstairs. Some of rocks shifted so I had to rebuild it alittle and fix the javamoss covered rocks etc.



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Since it's an open top tank and my light is an 18w coralife reflected I had to somehow keep a 9" reflector on top of a 20" tank. I accomplished this by hanging it from the cabinet above with picture hanging wire.



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I temporarily put a white background on the tank since the cabinet that it's setting on his a tumbled marble background. Didn't like it as you can see in this pic of the main inhabitants. These gold tetras are a great little school. I haven't lost any since I setup the tank.



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This tank sure is sharp. Simple seems to work very well making this small tank look much bigger than it is.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings
I was thinking about upping the lighting and going more high-tech on the tank, but I don't think I will. With my 72g to maintain and a saltwater I'm trying to get off the ground I think this tank will remain simple. I'll probably have to swap the Blyxa for some rubber plants (Anubias). Anyone got some Nana their trying to get rid of?

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I take it you got rid of the bucket of Anubias?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I take it you got rid of the bucket of Anubias?

Wow, you have a good memory. I did eventually get rid of it, but I should have keep it, it probably would still be alive

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Wow, you have a good memory.

I tend to scare myself sometimes. Although I believe you had the word FREE hooked on to the bucket of anubias because you didn't think they were really alive. That word free gets hook on me somewhere and doesn't let go.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I tend to scare myself sometimes

Yeah - you scare me too, sometimes

Tetratech,

I find that this tank is looking just dandy, but it also looks like it is done. As in - nothing to mess with. I am sure you can use the free time for the salt setup though.

Interesting surface that the tank sits on, I like how it reflects part of the tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I find that this tank is looking just dandy, but it also looks like it is done. As in - nothing to mess with. I am sure you can use the free time for the salt setup though.

One of the reasons I'll probably keep this tank low-tech is just what you said about free time to work the salt setup. Thanks for the tank comments. Actually I plan on working the moss into a higher level around the main rock and adding some other plants. I'm probably going to tak out the Blyxa (I don't think it will make it) and put in some small anubias or fern.

Interesting surface that the tank sits on, I like how it reflects part of the tank.

My kitchen was recently redone with granite countertops so that is the reflection you see.

My Scapes

I personally would keep the main rock as clean as it is right now, I think having moss climb up on it would take away some of its majestic appearance, if you know what I mean.

Trying out a Blyxa somewhere on the low ground sounds good, given that you have a hidden substrate in there anyway. Why do you think it wouldn't make it - light?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Trying out a Blyxa somewhere on the low ground sounds good, given that you have a hidden substrate in there anyway. Why do you think it wouldn't make it - light?

Yes, I think light is the biggest issue. I'm only running 18w cf although I probably displaced 3g with my monkey skull so I guess I'm at about 2wpg not much for a 9g tank. I think you misunderstood me I'm not planning to put the blyxa lower in fact I would stand a better chance if I went higher. I think I'm gonna go Anubias nana or some other lowlight small leafed plant.
I'm not doubting that Tankwatcher's Blyxa is growing, but I'll be very surprised. Doesn't she have just 1.6wpg or did she upgrade.

Oh, you know about the EC in the back corner?



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Oh, you know about the EC in the back corner?

Sure do, you mentioned it once in some content that I don't remember though.

Higher is no good to me, it takes away from Mr. Monkey, and I like him

Anubias nana is ok, nana petite is perfect. You managed to make this tank look huge, keep it that way.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tetra,
We know all about you.

it takes away from Mr. Monkey, and I like him

Maybe we shouldn't go there.....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Higher is no good to me, it takes away from Mr. Monkey, and I like him

Thanks guys, but I really thing the monkey skull scares Bensaf. What about a java moss hairdo on top of the monkey skull.

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but I really thing the monkey skull scares Bensaf.

It reminds me of an ex-girlfriend...shudder

What about a java moss hairdo on top of the monkey skull

No. Bald is good. A bag over it's head might help though

The Anubias petite would be great where the Blxa is. Wasn't chaos maximus (all hail !!) trying to give away all his petites ?
Cryptocore parva would look good in that spot too.

Or you could try some riccia for contrast with the moss. I've had it grow in non co2 with not a huge amount of light (in a small tank) absolutely fine. It even pearled on occassion.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Cryptocore parva.... I would like to get my hands on that plant! It's never on any of the list at work though. I guess that means I have to spend the big bucks and buy it online some day.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Played around with the tank alittle and removed some java from the front left corner and created more beachfront property. I used some of the java and made the mountain alittle higher. Better or worse? I also slighly rotated the rock. See Bensaf nothing to be scared of

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wow okay this just keeps getting better everytime i come back to this post.

now you cant see the monkey face

well i agree with the whole anubias petite thing would really contrast well and give it a bit of flow.

my only thing is if you can get the new varigated form really cool...might have to order it in somewhere but its REALLY worth it

keep it going TETRATECH

Hm,

I liked it better the other way. Now the island seems small compared to the rest of the tank, aka beach front. As a matter of fact, now it seems like the plants and rocks are the entire island, while before one could have imagined to view a section of an island that expands outside of the tanks confinements.

But that is just my opinion,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I defintely see what your saying. Before you could use more of your imagination of the island size, etc. I always respect your opinion, epecially your eye for detail.
I'm surprised you didn't say anything about the litte bit of eco showing in the back left corner.

BTW - I also threw a piece of white foam board behind the tank as you coud see in the pic.

Well, what's fun about this tank is that it's so easy to play around with.

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Ah, Darn,

I missed the Eco

I guess I am getting old and my sense of observation is in decline. Very soon I may not even notice anymore that these pictures that are posted at FP are about fish tanks

About the foam and the easiness for change: That is how I feel about the background of my 20G (although I am not as flexible as you are when it comes to the interior). Whenever I feel like it, I simply cut a new colored cardboard to size and voila, a new impression arises

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Another view of the tank. I'm starting to enjoy this one. It's fun to tinker with it. I added a few more pieces of rock to give it more depth.

Now that's a wet bar

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I promised myself I wouldn't try adding and Hygro Difformis but I couldn't resist. I put a vew sprigs in to see how it would look. the wisteria constrasts great with the dark moss. Anubias Nana has a light green variety?



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Now that's a wet bar

- exactly my thought.

Tetratech, I think to remember that youhave mixed moss and wisteria before, but my personal experience wasn't all that great. I had this in my 20G QT and over time the two plants started to grow heavily into each other, to a point where neither not was growing healthy. The moss suffocated the wisteria in some spots, in others the roots (water roots) of the wisteria interwebbed with the moss so much that the mix became one clump.

I think you can avoid this with frequent checking on the situation and trimming when required, but this means that the tank is on a higher level of maintenance than it was before.

And now go and open one of these wine bottles for us please

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes in the long-run the java would overgrow the moss, but the tank is on such a small scale it's nothing to cut the wisteria out and replace with my endless supply from my 72g.

And now go and open one of these wine bottles for us please

Now that you brought it up. Do open-top aquariums on bars work? I mean if someone pours a drink it wouldn't be that much of a stretch for some to fall into my tank .

My Scapes

Bar's and open top tanks? A couple of years ago I living in a house with 8 others that kind of liked to party and drink alot. It wasn't a good thing. Hence I never had a tank set up outside my locked room. Odds of a beer being fed to the fish was way to high. Though I bet it wouldn't be much worse that your DIY CO2 issue a while back.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Lose the Wisteria. It doesn't fit in. Having it there isn't adding anything rather just distracting from the overall look.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi,
I tend to agree with Ben. The moss and rocks are a
pleasure to view and seem to blend together. The
addition of the three pieces of wisteria, seem to
shock or grab the eye and leave me thinking "what/how
did they get there." For me, they disrupt the "flow"
of the tank.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

i personally think they look like miniture palm trees in the lush tropical forest on mount monkey island

but yah get rid of them thats the first thing that draws your eye and you loose everything else.

like said before do some petite

Frank and Ben,
Thanks, just making sure your paying attention.

Braty Boy,
uh, , thanks

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whats wrong tetra? didnt get wgat i said (maybe lost a bit?
)

well yah

Well since you guys are so intent on having cichlid chat dominate the planted tank forums, I decided to get in on the fun.

Meet Mr and Mrs. Apistogrammar Agassizi Double Red:




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I'm 99% sure I got the correct female. I caught these myself and it took me a good 1/2 hour to do so. They were in a hugh end-cap tank with disc and other apistogrammars including Borelli and Nijsseni.



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Too be honest the male wasn't the one I was originally going for but I gave up after literally tearing the tank apart. It was aquascaped with alot of wood, rock and plants:



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I cannot beliefe this. First all the ranting about me talking Apistos, and then this

Well, glad to see that you obviously like these kind of fishies

I cannot tell right of the bat if you got the correct female, but given the elongated body you seem to be correct.

About Agassizi: If I am not mistaken then they are quite a challenge to breed in a tank, with super low ph and what not. At least when compared to Cacs. But I guess that was not your intention anyway.

So, tell us more. How come you got them? And why did you have to fish them out by yourself (or did you insist) ?

Anyway, congratulations,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo!

Well, glad to see that you obviously like these kind of fishies

Actually if you look way back in my 72g log (can't remember the page), I did mention I wanted to get some apistos for that tank, but I just never did. I was afraid they would get lost in the wisteria jungle and I would never see my new expensive fish.

I cannot tell right of the bat if you got the correct female, but given the elongated body you seem to be correct.

It was tough, because their were so many yellowish looking females in the tank. Alot had a big black circle on the side which I think develops for breeding, but I believe those were the nissizi.

About Agassizi: If I am not mistaken then they are quite a challenge to breed in a tank, with super low ph and what not. At least when compared to Cacs. But I guess that was not your intention anyway

.
Well for now they will be in the 12g. I plan on making some inventory changes. Looks like I'm going to get rid of my pencils and black neons (9 fish in total) and move my kulis and gold tetras into the 72g. I will then have only the crs and apistos in the 12g. So far they haven't been bothering them and I already so the female eat a snail. To be honest the apistos arent' that much bigger than the golds or the crs.

So, tell us more. How come you got them? And why did you have to fish them out by yourself (or did you insist) ?

Yeah, I know the people in the store pretty well and I catch my own fish.



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Tetratech,

Here is A Link to the double red Apisto. The female, maybe because she is in the mood, looks colorwise quite different

She doesn't look like a Borelli female to me either, and neither like a Nijsseni.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo. See that's the confusion. The female double red in your link has that big black dot, similiar to the other females in the tank, but the Nijsseni has big black smudges:

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=137&Itemid=44

The female double-red I think get's that black dot during mating and the horizontal line fades.


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OK,

This Really Odd Site has some Apistos Double Red that look like your female, so that is good.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice pics anyway. Yeah I think I got the right one, found this pic on aquaworld. Not a good pic, but it looks very similar to mine and it's identified as an Agassizi anyway.





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They've already gotten some good color back:


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The male has that nice blue ram sparkle to the face area.
Yeah know, looking at the male, with all the yellow/gold I wonder if these are gold/reds and not double-reds.



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Tetratech,

Glad you have a positive ID, not knowing what fish I have drives me nuts.

About double and stuff: I think the number of fins (of dorsal, caudal, and anal) that are of a certain color identifies what it would be called. In your case, I see 2 red ones, hence Double-Red.

On my orange, on the other hand, I see all 3 are orange, so why where they called Double-Orange? I think I will go with Robyn's suggestion and call them Orange-Flash, I like that better anyway

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just popped in to say great job!

It looks much bigger than it is and is very pleasing to the eye.

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

Nice fish Tetra! Those are probably my favorite Apisto along with the ones LF has now.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

A couple of new pics of fish and tank. First the male apisto. Excuse the spot algae on the glass.



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Here's a pic showing the female double-red going up the rugged terrain and encountering Mr. Shrimp:



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This pic isn't the greatest, but I like how it depicts the male highup looking down at the female to the mid front of the tank.



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A rather common fish, but one that I also think is beautiful is the Kuhi Loach depicted here:






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I've made some changes to the overall tank, adding more rock and of course taking the wisteria out. The blyxa will come out as well since the conditions arent' right for it.



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Very Nice Tetratech

If you care, Here Is Another Link that shows a female in the back of a male, looks like yours if you ask me.

Very nice pictures. Are you planning to create some hiding spots for the male/female? I think that eventually they will be needed, even if they pair off nicely right now.

You also managed to cover the Eco in the corner, or are my eyes fooling me again?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I really like the secondondary big rock you added in. It seems to give the bigger one a comparison.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks for the comments. katieb thanks for popping in.
Wings I tried to give it some more depth, etc. Gonna be playing around with this for a while.




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LF,

There actually are some hiding places under some of those rocks. The agassizis are quite slender and them seem to move thru some of the openings. BTW the eco is still there, but it's getting hiddened by the growing moss.

These two seem to be getting along really well, so I'm going to start clearing the tank of other fish. I'll probably slowing start moving the kulis and then the gold tetras and bring the black neons and pencils to a good lfs.

New pic:



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Very nice shot of the male (and the female in the back). Seems like they are acclimating wonderfully.

Bringing fish to the LFS, even a good one, is always something that makes me kind of sad, because this LFS is not the place where they will stay for good.

One can only hope that they fall into the hands of an experienced client, and not someone who collects "one of this kind, one of that kind, and because the color is so nice give me one of these as well".

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Of course you are right, but what can I do, can't add another tank, unless I start digging my own basement.

Anyway, I'm a little worried about the apisto since they are in a small tank right now with 10 other fish and a few shrimp. The tank get's a weekly water change plus about two top offs during the week from open-top evaporation.

I also threw my old purigen sack into the hob to help with organics.

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can't add another tank, unless I start digging my own basement.

There is of course the option to put some walls and a roof over the pool and use that new room for the biggest tank in the whole area (aquariums excluded)

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

There is of course the option to put some walls and a roof over the pool and use that new room for the biggest tank in the whole area (aquariums excluded)

At one point I did ask my wife if I could turn the pool into a koi pond so the kids could swim with the fish, but oddly enough is said no

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That is too bad about the pond. When I first started playing around on this site there was a tread from someone in Aust. that had an indoor pool he was going to convert into a pond. I don't think much ever came out of it but it would have been really sweet!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I remember that Wings - everyone called BS ebcause he never posted any pictures of the pool and eventually just disappeared.

Congrats on the apistos tetra, they look lovely

Well, I guess it's my turn to get some apistos now, huh?

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks Nowher,

With maybe a few rock changs I think this setup could work for them. What do you guys think? Actually I think the fry would do well with all the java moss goodies in there?

Here's a another pic of the male. They are eating very well and coloring up better. Here's a pic of the male this morning:



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love the new addition adds more life to the tank

They are eating very well and coloring up better. Here's a pic of the male this morning:

Yeah, just rub it in.

No really, he has an awesome color, I love it. NowherMan6, AF does have a pair of these right now, and even an idiot like myself can sex them (female is already yellow). Go get them

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, just rub it in.

Sooorrryyyy!

No really, he has an awesome color, I love it. NowherMan6, AF does have a pair of these right now, and even an idiot like myself can sex them (female is already yellow). Go get them

Where's he gonna put them?

LF what's the story on your Vieja II? Haven't heard much about them?


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They'll go perfect in my 2.5 gallon holding tank, of course! Nah, not getting into apistos

It's interesting about LFs Vieja's, seems everything I read about them says they're some of the more aggressive apistos, yet they don't seem to attack anyone in LFs tank.

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Back in the saddle!

Well if you want some really nice looking pencils and black neons just ask. I gotta unload something

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Boy it's really a ghost town around here. Hope it wasn't something I said

Anyway here's a few more pics. I'm a little worried about the female aspisto. Her belly seems alittle pinched (concave).



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The male disappeared on me this morning for about 4 hours. One disadvantage of the open top is that when you don't see a fish you think it might have jumped, but he was there. I forgot the big rock has a sort of shelf about 2 inches of the bottom making a perfect cave. The shelf is in the back and that's where he was. I also noticed the male is starting to get aggressive I saw it biting a kuli loach, shrimp and also the female apisto.


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tetra, if you're worried about her concave belly then a treatment with metrodozinole won't hurt. It's a mild anti-parasitic med, I've had lots of success in the past with it.



It has been quiet...

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Back in the saddle!

Speaking of the silence...it think it is LF's fault. He ran off on us again!

Your Male is really coloring up and looking nice!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

oooh Tetra, naturally I love your tank, BUT your apistos are GORGEOUS. I have seen those in the occasional LFS here in Sydney (not many LFS sell apistos here at all - you have to search high & low). If I had somewhere to put a pair, I'd buy them in a shot. I love the very different shape of their tail. I hope your female is ok.

Don't worry if you don't see them for stretches at a time. When my female was guarding her eggs, I didn't see her for 3 days - didn't even come out to feed.

Looks like a really nice home you've made for them.

Cheers
TW

tetra, if you're worried about her concave belly then a treatment with metrodozinole won't hurt

Actually I think I have Hex-A-Mint which has the metro as the active ingredient. Maybe I dose lightly, thanks!


Tankwatcher,
Thanks for the reassurance on the disappearing apistos.

Speaking of the silence...it think it is LF's fault. He ran off on us again!

As LF goes, so does the world of FP.

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I'm a little worried about the female aspisto. Her belly seems alittle pinched (concave)

How is your female going?

Cheers
TW

OK,

I am back now, lets have some info

I am with Robyn, what is now on the Apisto frontier? How are they getting along, who is chasing who, where are the hiding spots, how do they treat the tankmates, and anything else you wish to share.

Ingo

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Sorry it's taken awhile for me to update. The Apistos seem fine I'm still in the process of moving fish. So far I moved an Amano and the two kuhli loaches out of the tank. It appears that the Apistos ate the crs, so the school of 8 gold tetras are the only other thing in the tank other than the two apistos. The male is somewhat aggressive during feeding to the female and the gold tetras, but other than that,their are no problems. I am going to move the gold tetras but to be honest I can't catch them without destroying the tank, so I'm open to ideas. I might have to start feeding them food inside a net to get them used to it and then scoop them out.

On the plant side. The only flora is now javamoss. I'm curious to what others think would be a good fert maintenance schedule for the tank. As I mentioned it has just javamoss with 18 watts of 12 gallons. I know the java probably requires very little in terms of nutrients so I'm deciding what to do to keep the java looking good and to keep algae at bay.


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Excel, little bit of flourish, a bit of K every now and then... the rest can come from fish food/ waste.

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Back in the saddle!

Excel, little bit of flourish, a bit of K every now and then... the rest can come from fish food/ waste

Thanks Nowher. I guess if I move out the school of tetras maybe a pinch of no3,po4. Good point about the K. I still like doing big water changes for the fish/spawning, with that in mind maybe I should dose no3,po4?

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That's actually a good point, forgot about the big changes. In that case I don't think it could hurt - just a pinch here and there, some P to keep the green spot away.

So you're moving all the Amanos out of the tank? Should be interesting to see how that works out with the java moss, they're perfect for keeping the moss clean.

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Back in the saddle!

Yeah that's the problem. The kuhlis were great moving the sand around, the amano as you said for the java, Now it's more maintenance

EDIT: Current Pic. To be honest I like it but that's about it. I'll probably be re-adjusting soon. You could see the apisto pair swimming in the front center.



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Current pic of the male Apisto. I'm noticing red color now on the upper fin as well. Does this mean I have a triple-red? yippie


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To be honest I like it but that's about it. I'll probably be re-adjusting soon.

What do you mean? Is the look boring for you? Maybe because you see it every day, for us who see the tank maybe once a week it is still interesting. What would you change?

Apisto: I didn't know that your type comes with these crazy color definitions

Ingo

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Well to be honest the tank looks better with the shrimp crawling around the hills and I like the gold tetras which by the way I can not catch unless I take apart the tank. I'm now considering just moving the Apistos into my 72g and adding like 4 more gold tetras and 5 or 6 CRS.

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But wouldn't moving the Apistos into the 72 mean that they have to split the territory with 2 pairs of Rams? I don't know if that would be such a good idea. I wouldn't put more than 2 pairs of these types of cichlids in my 125G, if at all.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

But wouldn't moving the Apistos into the 72 mean that they have to split the territory with 2 pairs of Rams? I don't know if that would be such a good idea. I wouldn't put more than 2 pairs of these types of cichlids in my 125G, if at all.

So what are you saying, I should declare a Fish Emergency and take over my son's 10G Guppy Tank?

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Does this mean I have a triple-red?

Who knows, but I haven't read about this in your type of apisto.

I can not catch unless I take apart the tank.

I am pleased I'm not the only one who struggles to catch my fish. I know everytime I need to move a fish,it means ripping out all my plants, rocks & starting again. They are too good for me

Cheers
TW

So what are you saying, I should declare a Fish Emergency and take over my son's 10G Guppy Tank?

Poor kid. Daddy is taking his tank away!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetratech,

I see that there are Double-Red and other forms out there, This Link is for a double-red. Unlike yours, he wears his red on the outer edges of the caudal fin and has yellow on the inner areas.

What to do with the couple: I would think that they could be ok in the 72, but I am less certain that this would be the case if she breeds.

Ingo

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Good Morning I've been up all nite working on a project.
Ugh!!!!!

You know that female in the link you just sent me other than the color doesn't look anything like mine.
Ugh!!!!

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Wow tetratech, an all-nighter. You must have had loads of coffee then.

Anyway - look at This Link, this female looks more like yours. Also, I seem to identify that your female is more elongated than the cacs body shape, which would be in line with agassizii.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah lots of coffee, I'm probably gonna crash by noon.

Well mine definitely looks more like that second link so if that site is correct I don't even have a double read I have a "Alenquer"

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Tetratech this morning -->

Here is Another Link to a Red/Gold form. If agassizii are anything like cacs then they will have fry of varying color forms (see Triple-Reds that have babies of all types of reds). Some of these fry will grow up and may not show clear signs of the original color morph of their parents.

Ingo

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These agassizii have a beautiful shaped tail - I like how it's spearhaped - just that bit different to most fish.

Seems like all these apistos are a pain to sex and it can even be kinda hard to know for sure of what type, especially with the females.

tetratech, let's hope for wrigglers then you'll know at least you have a pair Most info I read say for SA dwarf eggs, a low pH and soft water is the go. Though if you're putting them in the hi-tech tank, you probably can't give them the soft water, cause of the likely pH swings soft water may cause - or have I got that wrong

Cheers
TW

No you got that right Robyn. No fry have ever survived in my 46g. My bolivians had fry a few times and non survived. Hard to believe with all the ground cover. This tank actually looks better with shrimp and a single school of small tetras. It's sometimes hard to put the scape ahead of the fish. Decisions, decisions.


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Anyone know for sure if this female looks healthy. It still has this pinched stomach area and my gut tells me she's not 100%.



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Here's a shot of the male after he displayed his finage when the female got to close:




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O.K. now on to the tank itself. Afterall this is planted aquaria .

Anyway I was saying that I didn't love the tank. Something wasn't quite right so I think I'm back on track now for what I ultimately want to accomplish. Here is the tank from a few days ago:



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And here's the tank tonite after adding more height to the java moss. Now to me it looks more like a rock coming out of a big mountainside as opposed to a rock sitting on top of some java moss. Still not where I want it but more on track.



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It still has this pinched stomach area and my gut tells me she's not 100%.

Looks like an internal parasite problem. This can develop very slowly, the fish gradually gets thinner and thinner, while remaining active and with a normal appetite.

To all intents and purpose the fish can behave quite normal for a few weeks/months but never gains weight. By the time it is sickly looking enough to be noticeable it will, in all probability, be too late to treat.

Definately I'd try a prophylacyic dose of Metrodizanole or other internal parasite meds.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

tetratech,

I don't know if there is a problem with the female, and I for sure cannot identify which problem may be there, if any. But I know that Bensaf is quick with suggesting a treatment for internal parasites, he did that a few times to me as well .

About the tank: I liked it better before, this is way too chunky for my taste. Don't take offense (and remember who is talking), but now the land mass looks like a big blob and way to solid in its vertial arrangement. Also, you lost almost all triangular arrangements except for the overall horizontal shape of the island itself.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Don't take offense (and remember who is talking), but now the land mass looks like a big blob and way to solid in its vertial arrangement

Don't be silly, I want all comments Interesting prospective. Yeah maybe some more growth and some better pics. I"ll leave it for a few days and see if my prospective changes. Bensaf didn't say anything about the new changes, but he's usually not one to hold any punches. I guess he only has time for one issue at a time.

Actually Matty suggested Metro some time back and I've been dosing 1/2 strength every other day. Dosed for about a week and I'm gonna start again.

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A better way to identify the change would be to say that the rock is now melted into the scape as opposed to just being in the tank. Either way it's still a work in progress.

Besides it gives Matty a run for this money in height with his glosso fall.

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"Don't take offense (and remember who is talking), but now the land mass looks like a big blob and way to solid in its vertial arrangement" - Boy, if I only knew how to spell

Anyway, I liked it better when it was more like the one below, although that one has some minor problems as well, in particular too sharp of an edge between sand and "land".

For me, the main advantage of that arrangement is an almost 360 degree visual experience, as one is inclined to turn to the sides of the tank to see what is behind that rock. Now, on the other hand, it is obvious on what is behind there - more rock.

Ingo

Attached Image:

Earlier Tank

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For me, the main advantage of that arrangement is an almost 360 degree visual experience, as one is inclined to turn to the sides of the tank to see what is behind that rock

I'll tell you what's behind the rock. GSA , cause I can't reach it and my otos have been moved out.
I think I'm gonna throw my apistos into the 72. I like the shrimp crawling and cleaning the rugged terrain.

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Instead of individually dosing this tank and since it's evaporation is high due to the open top I think I'm going to just top off with water from my 72g, which would probably be twice a week. This will the tank will get traces of everything, but not in large quantities. I guess I might still want to dose excel. What do you guys thing of this plan.

I'm really at a lose fiquring out moss. I really don't think it needs much in terms of ferts. Sometimes it looks great other times it looks "dusty" and not really alive.
The tank has pretty good flow from the aquaclear 20.
It looked it's best when the crs will roaming the place.

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It looked it's best when the crs will roaming the place.

I concur.

I don't think apistos are suited to this environment as well. They're a type of fish where you make everything as jungle like as possible and let them sort their way through it - this is a minimalist type set up, just rock and moss, and benefits from having small, peaceful fish and shrimp. In addition, the larger size of the male apisto throws off the perspective a bit - without him it looks like a real mountain range - his presence gives away the size of the rocks.

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Back in the saddle!

In terms of ferts for your tank.

I am doing similar thigns with my 2G Hex. Every week during the water chages I save out about a gallon that I use for a water change in the hex. 90% of my plant mass is Java moss and it seems to be doing just fine this way. Every once in a while I will give it a dip of Excel.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I don't think apistos are suited to this environment as well. They're a type of fish where you make everything as jungle like as possible and let them sort their way through it - this is a minimalist type set up, just rock and moss, and benefits from having small, peaceful fish and shrimp. In addition, the larger size of the male apisto throws off the perspective a bit - without him it looks like a real mountain range - his presence gives away the size of the rocks.

What about the old scape vs the new. Do you see the eventual melting of the rock into the range?

Sounds good wings

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I definetely see what you're trying to do. I think the rock on the left needs to get good and fluffy, same as the one behind it. Right now there's too much skin showing, so to speak... It's a different look altogether, the identity of the last one was the rock itself as the mountain surrounded by jungle, like an aerial view - this one could very well be a scene from that scape - a close-up view of that mountain, zooming in on one section where a bare piece of stone juts out from an overgrown mossy area.


At least that's what I see... I could very well be delusional from wokring nearly 40 hrs in the past 2 days...

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Back in the saddle!

...a close-up view of that mountain...

That is probably why I liked the old one better. It appeared to be more scape, a whole mountain vs. a wall on a mountain.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

O.K is it LF or LP? Which do you prefer.
I guess I'll have to come up with a plant name. I'm really not an "Ulimate Fish Guru".

Anyway based on the last two comments. I think Nowher is with the program and LF or LP is not buying it. Anyway I respect both of your comments. That's the fun thing about planted tanks, everyone sees something different.




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O.K is it LF or LP?

I don't know which it is. I like little fishies and I am just a little planter. But I guess I will have to come up with something else as well, this one was added as soon as the option became available.

But if in doubt, I am LF and will always stay LF

And - given that I am not Mr. Nano, I would say that NowherMan6's advice has more weight.

Ingo

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BTW.... I forgot to add a while back that your male is looking really sharp. Great fish!

I really don't know where I stand on the new look any more...umm just put me on the fence until my but hurts!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I forgot to add a while back that your male is looking really sharp. Great fish!

A Belated thanks Wings!

Anyway here's a current shot. First the female. I'm still not sure if this one's gonna make it. The pinched stomach that I suspected as an internal problem as been second my Bensaf . I've been treating with metro for a few weeks now every other day 1/2 dose. I recently increased to full dose. In my estimate, she looks the same. LF I see what ou mean about the elongated body. Mind defintely is more slender throughout while your cac females have some bulkiness to the body behind the head.



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The male is looking good as always:



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tetratech,

Glad you see the difference, but sadly do I see whay you mean when you talk about her seeming to be sick. There is a real dent in her belly and it appears worse than in an earlier picture.

Does she eat? How is her poop?

Ingo

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Does she eat? How is her poop?

She eats fine and her poop looks normal. I guess I'll continue with the Metro treatment.

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Now I am purely guessing:

How would a female look after she lad her eggs? Can it be that the sudden disposal of eggs causes an indented stomach because the volume of the fish has been reduced?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice thought LF, but I doubt it. I looked at pics from day 1 and the pinched belly was there, somehow I missed it at the LFS . I've had them a month already.

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Hm,

Even with the knowledge that internal parasites vary in duration until a fish succumbs to it, a month of visible signs for such a small fish is a very long time. What do you think about that?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Even with the knowledge that internal parasites vary in duration until a fish succumbs to it, a month of visible signs for such a small fish is a very long time. What do you think about that?

Well, this is where my knowledgable falls short. I'm no "Ulimate Fish Guru" am more like a "Planted Tank Geek with an Attitude"

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tetratch, I think these things can be very slow acting. I have seen the same thing in my male cac ever since I bought him, but it is only since Friday that I thought he acted sick.

I think these internal parasites can be slow acting & by the time the fish act sick, it is too late. That's what I'm hearing from an apisto site I visited too. So, it's probably good that you are treating sooner, rather than later.

I'm currently treating 2 of my males too, but in at least one of them, I fear I it is too little, too late.

Good luck.

Cheers
TW

tetratech - That is why you have to post more. This way you will be able to change your title

Anyway: You guys make me a little worried and I am wondering if it would be a good idea to treat mine, just in case. In gernal, I am not to wild about overmedication, or medication if there is no visible need. But then again, once it is visible it may be too late.

Did you try peas or something along that line?

Ingo

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tetratech - That is why you have to post more. This way you will be able to change your title

What I don't post enough to change my title?

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What I don't post enough to change my title?

- Well - No -

Do you remember a long time ago I was just surpassing you around the 3000 post mark. In the meantime you added about 850 posts while I added about 2,200

That is almost 3 times as much

Ingo

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Do you remember a long time ago I was just surpassing you around the 3000 post mark. In the meantime you added about 850 posts while I added about 2,200

I don't get it, so what parmeters are needed?

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You guys make me a little worried and I am wondering if it would be a good idea to treat mine, just in case.

Probably not, unless you see some mishapped belly or not natural behavour. In hindsight, I could say both gave me early indicators- the cac had the underbelly that didn't look quite right right from the get go & the bita just didn't behave right - hiding, scared even of food - although he would eventually come out & eat - but scared of the food actually being put in the tank. Then of course for at least 6-8 weeks that scale being pushed outwards & I foolishly did nothing all this time.

I am far from an expert & I think that I might consider the "just in case treatment" but that's just 'cause I'm now spooked. If yours have good body shapes, eat well, interact as expected, it may not be good to over medicate -same as it isn't good for humans to over medicate.

Anywho, that's just my 2 cents.

Cheers
TW

Well it's been a while, so here's a current pic. This tank continues to be very low maintenance. Now that it's all java moss I've completed stopped dosing the tank with the exception of about a 20% or so water change once a week in which I mix in tap and water from the 72g.

I've been playing around with the tank abit. Notice the change.

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Uhm...I don't know how I missed this thread for so long. Sorry tetratech. I do think your mountain is starting to compete dramatic wise with the glossofalls. Actually it's probably moreso. The rocks take up more than 1/3 of the tank.

I don't get it, so what parmeters are needed?

I think it's 5K posts. Something I'll reach in another 5 years.

Notice the change.

Hmm...the pic shrank? *squints* looks like there's a couple sticks over there with poofballs on the end...shishkabob? I don't know how I feel about the shishkabobs, but I like the rock structure. It will continue looking better as the moss fills in more. Complete 180 from where the tank started.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I don't get it, so what parmeters are needed?

I had to swear a FP oath not to give away what it taked to reach the next level , but Matty is pretty close with his assumption.

shishkabob?

To me it looks more like a palm tree on the beach, as can be seen on tropical islands. Nevertheless, it may be pushing the "immitation of nature" just a little too far. Otherwise it looks very nice, although the moss seems to be on the edge of needing a trimming in the front section.

Ingo

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shishkabob

No more pictures for you!!!!

As I said I was just playing around with the tank. I like LF's palm tree view much better...

I java moss does need a trim also this tank is really ideal for shrimps to be crawling around the moss. I'm not sure if the apistos will eat the amanos. The rams and rainbows don't bother them in the 72g, but as you know the apistos ate my crs. This is also smaller quarters so the amanos might become food as well.

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Yeah,

I have the same fears about shrimpsters and Apistos, in particular the males may try to take a bite. And with no claws to defend themselves, why not try to enjoy a few shrimp legs at least? Too risky for me, at $5 per Amano.

Ingo

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