AquaRank.com

FishProfiles.com Message Forums

faq | etiquette | register | my account | search | mailbox
# FishProfiles.com Message Forums
L# Freshwater Aquaria
 L# Planted Aquaria
  L# 25 Gallon Planted Tank Log
   L# Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
 Post Reply  New Topic
Subscribe25 Gallon Planted Tank Log
FRANK
 
**********
---------------
---------------
Moderator
Posts: 5108
Kudos: 5263
Votes: 1690
Registered: 28-Dec-2002
male usa us-colorado
Hi,
To convert degrees to ppm, multiply the degrees by 17.9.
To go the other way, divide ppm by 17.9.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 23-Feb-2006 06:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Thanks Frank, does that apply for KH and GH as well or is there a different calculation for them?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 23-Feb-2006 06:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
**********
---------------
----------
***** Little Fish *****
Master of Something
Posts: 7303
Kudos: 1997
Votes: 670
Registered: 20-May-2005
male usa
luvmykrib,
does that apply for KH and GH as well or is there a different calculation for them?
That does, as far as tanks go, only apply to GH and KH. It is a conversion into German Degrees that you will need in order to read most of the charts that list how much CO2 your water is currently holding. So, for example, approx. 36ppm of KH is equal to 2dH. Look at This Page for a sample chart.

What is 10 mg/L in ppm?
That one has been made easy for us as the term ppm and the term mg/l mean pretty much the same. There are small differences because we are not looking at pure water, but they are so minor that we, for our tank purposes, can neglect them. So, for example, 10 mg/l are the same than 10ppm.

Hope this helps,

Ingo


Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club
Post InfoPosted 23-Feb-2006 11:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
So if my calculations are correct, my tank is getting 12.682 ppm CO2, the KH is 6.7 dKH, and the pH is 7.2, is it enough CO2? Are the readings accurate? I haven't added any acid buffer in over a week, the tank has had 3 water changes since the last time I tried to adjust the pH. I do still have the peat in the filter and for the time being in the water buckets, this is due to the very high GH and KH from the tap, it is at the top of the scale, lowering it even a little bit seems to be helping.

I discovered that I have lost an oto, and one of the danios has a bent back. Should I start culling sick fish now or wait it out and do another water change? Realize that the buckets have not had a chance to steep and the water going in will be different than the water already in the tank. This may actually make things worse rather than better. So far it is one barb and one danio that are showing symptoms, in the past I have waited as long as possible until I could no longer stand to see the fish suffering, laboring with each breath and so skinny as to be almost see-through. I feel like I should instead act quickly to protect the other fish, they seemed to have been dining on the oto a bit, though I do not know why it died, it may have been stress from the medication and the temp being up and down, then up again.

Any advice or comments on my recent tank update are welcome!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 23-Feb-2006 20:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
See my thread [link=Here]http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/thread.aspx?id=27221&rp=2 [/link] for info on the recent loss and my suspicions.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 23-Feb-2006 22:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
**********
---------------
----------
***** Little Fish *****
Master of Something
Posts: 7303
Kudos: 1997
Votes: 670
Registered: 20-May-2005
male usa
luvmykrib,

Sorry to hear about all these fish problems, I don't really know what caused it or how to help you on this one. The only thing I can say is that:

a) A loss of maybe even 50% of an initial Oto population is happening rather often (without illness)
b) I has a danio with a bent back (for good) and he lived for quite a while, he actually was pretty bossy.

About your tank: right now, with all this medicine, filter changes, and what not going on, it may be better to wait to actually perform major changes (or additions). A few things I would say that can be done at some point:

1) Given that your lovely castle is about to dissapear behind the plants anyway, why not remove it and place some taller stems in that area, like Rotala Indica, Narrow Leaf Ludwigia, or even Bacopa.
2) How about adding some branchy driftwood that pokes out? Or maybe two of them, a smaller on the left and a larger one on the right. If you like the idea then go and get some now as you should soak in a bucket for a while (1 to 2 weeks at least).
3) It seems like your Amazon Sword has come a long way since you started this thread. It actually may be too big very soon. Do you have a plan there?
4) I would assume that your filter can be moved left or right, right? If so then why not try to place it somewhere less visible? Or maybe I should be more accurate as the filter is not the problem, but the Ladder (and its position is defined by the filters, right? ).
5) The background - that is algae, right? If it is clean, would this be a plain dark blue background?

Well, enough for now,

Ingo


Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club
Post InfoPosted 24-Feb-2006 11:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
I think I figured out what happened, the filter got all bunked up, by dying water sprite I think, and the moss that gets sucked up the intake tube. I got it all cleared out and the tank cleaned up a bit more. Only the barb passed away, the danio seems to be fine, his back wasn't permanently bent, it was occasionally bent, so I suspected water quality as the cause.

Hi Ingo, thanks for all your ideas.
Yes the castle is going, I like the idea of rotala indica, I would like some red in the tank, aside from the crypts in behind the driftwood that are turning red.

The amazon sword will be finding a home with my brother in his 55 gallon tank, hopefully it will transition well, he has less light than I used to. I think that may be a good place for a piece of branchy driftwood and maybe some bacopa or the narrow-leaved ludwigia.

Yes I can now move the filter to the left or to the right, the ladder is placed right under the filter to push the bubbles back down as they head for the surface. I am still in a bubble watching mode and may move the filter after the spring re-do of the tank, gravel etc. That's when I will finally cut and add the plastic pieces to the glass top, and by then I should have the new glass cut, the jagged ones have to go. They aren't a danger to the fish or myself but they are bothersome as they don't slide at all nicely. I think the filter will move to the left, behind some tall plants, whichever doesn't wind up elsewhere I guess, what would you put there?

Yes the background is a nice beautiful field of green spot algae, left there for my algae eaters to eat, I guess when I finally choose a nice dark blue background I will have to clean the glass eh? I think navy near the gravel, fading to purple and lighter blue near the top, I see sunrise/sunset in the tank, for me it's already there, I don't even see the algae or the horrible plastic background that's there now. Visualization works wonders, algae? what algae?


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 25-Feb-2006 02:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
**********
---------------
----------
***** Little Fish *****
Master of Something
Posts: 7303
Kudos: 1997
Votes: 670
Registered: 20-May-2005
male usa
luvmykrib,

I am glad that it seems like you found the source of your issues, now you can correct it . I hate it when there is a problem (like algae) and you don't know exactly what causes it.

About the future scape: I would first try to get my hands on some hardscape, like driftwood and rocks. Once you have these then you can think about where they would fit in your tank and after that you could identify which plants would look nicely with this hardscape and where they should go. And during the whole time keep us posted so we can mess with your mind .

Ingo


Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club
Post InfoPosted 25-Feb-2006 11:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Mess with my MIND?! Well if you can find it I guess you can mess with it, it seems to have deserted me right now.

I will be on the look out for some nice branchy driftwood, don't expect me to get it from ebay though, I don't want to spend that much on it! As for rocks, I will also be looking for them. I will keep the ladder visible for now so I can keep an eye on the CO2, I need to change the bottle soon.

I have a question about a suitable DIY bottle I am thinking of doing, to make bottle changes easier I have purchased some whiskey spouts, for alchohol bottles, I am thinking I would like to put them in the bottle and have the silicone tube attach to the spout. I bought 3 black plastic ones from Ikea for about $1.50 CDN to try this. Now before I do, has anyone tried this, how did it go? Did it blow the spout out? Would a glass bottle by chance be better for this experiment, I am going to attempt it before hooking the line up to the tank, just so the mess is contained in the kitchen rather than the living room and the tank. Any ideas on making this work?



"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 22:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Well I have added the boiling water to the sugar, and activated the yeast, now I am waiting for the bottle to cool before adding the yeast, then I will attach a line to no where first before attaching it to the tank, I have run into a small issue though, the spout is designed to let air escape so the whiskey will pour smoothly, I need to seal this hole for this to work, aquarium silicone is what I need for this. I guess I should have this stuff on hand in case of leaks right? Told you my mind had deserted me! If it works I will post a pic of my wine bottle CO2 canister, if it doesn't work I will report my failure and on Wednesday I will change the mixture in the Hagen canister and look for those nylon bulkhead fittings from that DIY CO2 article, I can't find them in any hobby shops around here.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 01:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
----------
Ultimate Fish Guru
Posts: 4241
Kudos: 1074
Registered: 04-Nov-2003
male usa
Luv,
When I was doing diy co2 I had gotton these hose barbs from home depot. I think it was WATTS brand A-85. I drilled a tiny hole in the top of a 1.9 litre juice bottle. The kind with the rigid orange screw top. After I drilled the hole I pushed the hose barb through - Done. No silicone, nothing just filled up the bottle with the cocktail and put the hose on the other end of the hose barb.



My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 03:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Thanks Tetra, I decided to use scotch tape for now to cover the hole, silicone later if it actually works, I'd hate to waste a good whiskey spout! I have added the yeast and am letting it sit, I'll do a test run in a few hours. I'm letting the mixture get started first, this way my CO2 production won't go down. So far the spout has stayed in the bottle, and the valve hasn't been blown out either. I have it open all the way so pressure doesn't build-up too much. I am hoping this will work as it will make changing bottles a snap. Now I will need to buy and consume another 1.5L of wine to get another bottle. Oh the hardships of fish keeping!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 04:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Ok there are bubbles happening inside the new canister, but none are making it to the ladder. I have sealed all the joins with pipe tape, and sealed the hole with two layers of it. Both valves are wide open, I don't know what else to do to make it work. How long before I should give up and switch back to the other canister? Any ideas? Anyone?

I bought two plants today, a bacopa and a red and green ludwigia, the ludwigia is by the ladder in it's new spot near the heater, and the bacopa is where the ladder used to be, pictures tonight.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 01-Mar-2006 01:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
No pictures, I turned off the light before I remembered I was going to take them. I am pulling the plug on the whiskey spout CO2 canister, there has been no change at all, still no bubbles making it to the bottom of the ladder, there seems to be just enough pressure keeping the water from being siphoned up the tube, but not enough to push the gas down the tube. There has been no CO2 in the tank for 24 hrs and the water was getting a slightly cloudy look to it. It may be that I replaced the sponge and am trying a new peat, or it could be better light and no CO2. Thus I am going back to the original bottle as I can't seem to make this idea work. I was looking forward to my new wine too! So I'll have to make do with this one, where is everyone! I am taliking to myself here and I'm the only one answering me! Cheese anyone?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 01-Mar-2006 08:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
**********
---------------
---------------
-----
Moderator
Tenellus Obsessor
Posts: 2790
Kudos: 1507
Votes: 1301
Registered: 26-Mar-2004
male usa us-northcarolina
I did my DIY CO2 like tetratech. I don't know what a whiskey spout is(but I do know what whiskey is ). You may have a bad batch, I got those once in a while. Maybe just try making a new batch of CO2....remember to use warmish water and dechlor.



Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients
Post InfoPosted 01-Mar-2006 08:37Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
I switched it out and the CO2 started to move down right away, it wasn't a problem with the batch, when I popped the cork it bubbled like champagne, without the loud POP and fizz! I think it could have been the connections, the tubing was probably way too long and I had 2 valves to hold it all together, so lots of places for leaks, plus my hubby isn't sure that the pipe tape is airtight or water proof!

A whiskey spout is the pouring device inserted into the bottle to make pouring go smoothly. That's the only name I could think of for it. The ikea name is SODA, but I don't read Swedish! Anyway, I guess I will have to do it the traditional way, which means I get to play with power tools, and now have most of a good batch of CO2 mixture going to waste, I wish I could feed it to keep it alive for the next change out. Maybe another experiment coming on! Nah, too tired. So what kind of alcohol is produced in this reaction anyway? Chaos said to toss it down the drain, so I guess it isn't drinkable? How's screech made? Any Newfies here who know?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 01-Mar-2006 08:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
**********
---------------
---------------
-----
Moderator
Tenellus Obsessor
Posts: 2790
Kudos: 1507
Votes: 1301
Registered: 26-Mar-2004
male usa us-northcarolina
If you've seen a mature yeast batch, I'd hope you wouldn't even think of drinking it. Nasty nasty. There's a reason why most people don't brew their own alcohol.



Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients
Post InfoPosted 01-Mar-2006 08:51Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Just so you know I was kidding, my lips still burn from the siphoning I did to get some of the stuff (sugar and yeast) from the bottom of the large bottle into the smaller bottle. Yikes it was only 1 day old! Talk about strong, good thing none of it actually went into my mouth.
I'm not crazy about hard alcohol, it makes me hurt, I do like wine and beer, had some good porter the other day. I have thought about brewing my own beer, and making my own wine, but I have a small house and three inquisitive boys. I wouldn't want to catch them in my liquor brewing closet! Hope they don't get any funny ideas about my CO2 bottle! The rest of the wine bottle full is going down the drain, I don't think it could be kept viable for 14 days and not be at the same strength as the one needing to be replaced.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 01-Mar-2006 09:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
This batch is much better than the first one, I must have got the activation right, plus I probably have my yeast stored better than in a paper packet in a cardboard box in a warehouse. It could have been an old box too. My yeast is kept in a tightly closed glass jar in the pantry, away from moisture and light and heat.
The bubbles are really moving, they do not slow and get stuck like the last batch did, they race through the ladder, barely lose any size, I will push the ladder as far down the glass as it will go. What size bubble is the best, these are monsters, do I want them to be smaller? Should I try a valve or just leave it for now?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 01-Mar-2006 09:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Now that I have recovered from my bottle madness, everything looks better now. I have a plan for future bottle changes, I'll start the new batch the day before in a different bottle, then when I;m ready to switch, the downtime will be less, just as long as it takes to rinse out the bottle and add the new batch. I have the valves to prevent the tank from draining out while the line is unhooked.

Barbs gone mad! One barb may be preggers! She has a really fat tummy, no pinecone scales though. The males are chasing her all over the tank, it's like a wild fast dance. I am not worried though, by morning if there were any eggs they will be all gone and I won't see a thing. She looks tired though, and there doesn't seem to be anywhere she can hide that they won't find her.

The new plants are looking pretty good, Ingo, you'd be proud, I moved the filter over to the left, the uptake tube is now hidden by the amazon sword, and the bacopa will eventually complete the camoflage. I moved the ladder to the right and it is now hidden partially by the hygo and the new ludwigia. The castle is gone, well actually it is now on display elsewhere in the house, like the skeleton in a bucket I am not allowed to throw out.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 02-Mar-2006 06:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
Yesterday I took off to visit with my 55 gallon in the city, I call it mine when in fact it belongs my brother and his family. I have recently been given free reign to improve their tank, limited of course by how much we all can afford. He now has a new filter, a Red Sea Turbo CO2 system. We still need some better light and more plants for the tank. I'm thinking the same one I got, only 2 24" size lights, would it be ok to replace them one at a time, with maybe up to a month in between? Neither of us can afford both all at once.

The barbs did their thing while we were all blissfully sleeping and un-aware. Big Momma was much thinner in the morning, wish that worked for me! And the boys all looked pretty satisfied, some feasting for sure went on so I didn't feed them at all yesterday. Lost another oto, they seem fine then I find one dead in the morning. As soon as my metro gets here I will be doing a water change and then dosing the tank. I was hoping for the tank to level out a bit in between meds, and it has to some extent, only one danio is hiding by the heater, he does move to the other end of the tank now and then, but he isn't eating either. I wake up each morning expecting to find him dead, but he's hanging in there.

I will post tank readings of before and after the water change. I will be ordering from Greg Watson.com soon, the prices were great, and then I will need help to figure out how much I need to dose for my tank. Hopefully the silence will end and I will no-longer be typing to myself. Some advice on what to order would be appreciated as well.

Need to edit the tank residents now
Plants:
1 red/green ludwigia (name forgotten)
1 bunch bacopa carolinas (I think)
1 amazon sword
2 java fern windelov
3 java fern
2 anubias nana
hygro polysperma (10?)
java moss
3 species of crypts, green wendtii, tall red variety, narrow, reddish really crinkly type
6 e. tenellus

Fish:
5 danios
5 tiger barbs
2 otos
1 SAE
1 krib

Hardscape:
1 river rock cave
1 driftwood
assorted small rocks

Light:
30" coralife aqualight 65 watts

Nutrafin Plant Grow CO2 system

The rest is still the same


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 03-Mar-2006 21:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
Otos dropping like flies! I have only one oto left in my 25 gallon tank! I am thinking about tearing the tank down and re-doing it earlier than I had planned, like this weekend! There is obviously something wrong in that tank and I don't know what it is, I have done everything I can think of. The danios are looking a bit peaked, but the rest of the fish seem fine. I have mela-fix and pima-fix in the tank now, so the water is a bit cloudy, I am hoping to clear out whatever it is that's killing my fish. If it was just the otos, I would chalk it up to their sensitivity, but it's also the hardy barbs and danios that have been affected. I'm sure it's not TB, but rather a fungal/ bacterial/ protozoan infection, so I'm treating for them all as soon as the metro gets here.

On the plant front, the plants are growing great, the hygro has overcome the CO2 ladder, the bacopa is showing new growth already, and the ludwigia is starting to take off as well. My sword is putting out a baby, I think it has gotten as big as it will get. The crypts are doing great, I didn't see a lot of melting when I put in the new light. No pearling as yet, but I have a low bubble rate, it is not adjustable either. But if the plants are growing then it must be enough.

New fish numbers
5 tiger barbs
4 danios
1 oto
1 krib
1 SAE


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 18:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
ChaosMaximus
*******
----------
Enthusiast
Posts: 163
Kudos: 39
Votes: 9
Registered: 15-Dec-2005
male usa
Hey,

I havent kept up with this tank too much recently (trying to deal with mine) but I wanted to say that ottos are supposed to be sensitive to everything. This is why I went into shrimps because I was worried that the ottos would all drop dead if I had any algae.

A tear down might be appropriate, but not necessarily if the ottos are the only thing pointing you towards that action.

Chaos

__________________________________

- - - Humorous Bit of Wisdom - - -
Post InfoPosted 07-Mar-2006 19:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Hi Chaos, thanks for stopping in, I lost 5 fish in just over a week in that tank, and 2 in the other tank just prior to that. The otos were hit the hardest, but the last one seems fine, the others did to, then I'd find them dead in the morning. I'm going finish with the meds, 1 week for the mela-fix and pima-fix, 14 days with the metro, and get a new heater for each tank this weekend. In the 10 I checked the temp last night before bed, it was 80F, this moring it was 76F. The other tank does a bit better, it doesn't drop as much, but the heater keeps going over the target temp, it'll creep up from 80 to 84F. So new heaters, I'm hoping for stealth, but I will get the best I can. I am also going to be looking for a CO2 indicator, NOT a controller. So that I will know how much CO2 is in the tank without having to do the calculation.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 07-Mar-2006 23:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
I guess it's time for my 3rd week update. The tank seems to be having problems, though all readings have normal. In the pictures the tank is cloudy due to the pima-fix. I am dosing mela-fix, pima-fix and metro to get rid of any nasties in the tank. Over the last week I have lost 5 fish, 1 barb, 1 danio and 3 otos. With the light upgrade I have also noticed more algae, a red type, green spot, and some diatoms, not sure where they came from.
On with the show, here are some pics.
Whole Tank
Bacopa, SAE and Krib
New Ludwigia
Last Surviving Oto
The Moss covered driftwood
Barbs at it again
See my red nose


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 08-Mar-2006 05:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
I was hoping fish would stop dying in my tank, but I have a danio in isolation, he has a shrunken body, no lesions and no curvature of the spine. It may well be woms, though I cannot see any. I am almost at the end of my rope with this, 6 fish dead in one tank in about a weeks time, this is crazy and it's making me want to so I did! I will continue to dose the mela-fix and pima-fix and the metro, I am looking for a fish wormer as well, if it's worms it's gotta go.

How did the worms get in? I have a couple of ideas
1. Other fish brought them in and they have lain in wait for the perfect moment to strike.
2. The cat likes to drink from the water change bucket on water change day and is carrying worms inside as a nice little gift for the fishes.
3. The dog has worms and likes to drink from the water buckets, especially when she hears me say "I need to do a water change today".
4. It's a conspiracy, they're out to get me!
5. Alien invaders!

Ok, now that that's out, any other ideas?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 08-Mar-2006 23:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
----------
Ultimate Fish Guru
Posts: 4241
Kudos: 1074
Registered: 04-Nov-2003
male usa
Luv,
Sounds like a mess .
What are your current parameters?

Light (wpg and hours)
Filter (type media)
Fert Dosing
Water Change Routine



My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 08-Mar-2006 23:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
Luv,

Your plants are really looking nice. Full, Lush, I like it!

I am not a fan of the colored water though... Sorry!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 08-Mar-2006 23:52Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
Thanks Tetra, here's my params
Light 65 watts
Filter Aqua-clear 50, foam sponge, peat, bio-max
pH 7.4
KH 180 ppm
Ferts, normally just potassium,iron,traces, CO2,
last reading showed NO3 at 10 ppm, PO4 at 0.5 ppm, so I dosed NPK, one cap per 10 gallons provides 3.5 mg/L NO3, and 0.5 mg/L PO4 and 2.5 mg/L potassium.
Water changes are done every 7-10 days.

Wings, that colour is after adding a half dose of blackwater expert, plus I have some meds in there that have been messing with my water colour a bit. Usually with just the peat alone the water is not so colourful. Though the gravel adds enough colour all on it's own. The tank water actually seemed very green after the new light went on, I haven't got used to it being so bright yet.

Just noticed another danio seems to be going downhill, they seem fine and then bam, they get skinny all of a sudden. I'm not sure what to do, I am totally lost here!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 00:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
I really don't know what to tell you. Do you have city or well water? If it is city then maybe they have messed with something?

Your CO2 only comes out to be about 12ppm. Not really all that high. Are you using one of thoughs hagen kits? Would a Coralife limewood airstone be more efficent?



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 01:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
Hi Wings, thanks for the comment earlier, the plants seem to be doing fine. My water is city water, maybe they have messed with it somehow, I looked into how it's filtered, what a nightmare! It's put through lime, chlorine, UV, ammonia, you name it they use it. The end result is water that may be good for hard water, high pH cichlids. I choose the soft-water, low pH fish to have though.
I am using the Hagen CO2 system, it worked great when it was under the filter, since moving stuff I have noticed it isn't as great, then fish started dying and I don't want to stress them more than they have been. Next water change the ladder and the filter will be reunited. I really won't be looking for a new diffuser until I'm ready to set up CO2 on the 10, which will be soon I think, it's also having algae problems. When it rains it pours.

A higher plant load will help both tanks with algae, I'm hoping to get more plants this weekend. New heaters for both tanks as well.

On the colour front, I also have that blue background which with the peat turns kind of green, I will be looking for a black background as well. So much to do so little time. Plus there was a good covering of green-spot algae on the glass, I have now removed it and the lights are out. I don't want green water and will do0 almost anything to avaoid it!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 02:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
----------
Ultimate Fish Guru
Posts: 4241
Kudos: 1074
Registered: 04-Nov-2003
male usa
Luv,

Are you sure there's nothing toxic going in. With those fish dropping like that something seems to be poisonous. Somethings to check:

What kind of peat are you adding, is it 100% peat moss?

I don't thing think with 2.6wpg on a 25g you have alot of plant suck up. Also you have mostly lowlight plants that grow slowly.

What is your source of NKP?

How much water do you change every 7 to 10?



My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 02:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
I change about 25% water at each change. I'll pull the peat from the filter, I ran out of the fluval stuff and used a peat pellet from a greenhouse kit, it didn't list anything harmful but I guess you never know. With the blackwater extract I was thinking about doing just that anyway. The NPK is the Hagen Nutrafin Plant Grow NPK. What I listed is what's on the bottle, I dosed for 20 gallons, I figure about 5 gallons lost to gravel, rocks and driftwood. I will do a water change even though I'm still in the middle of the med dosing. It says to dose for 7 days then do a 25% water change. I think I'll do a water change and then dose to bring the med back up.

There, pulled the peat from the filter while I was thinking about it. Now we'll see, a water change should reset everything.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 03:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
Sounds like you are only doing the doseing end of the Tom Barr's El. You might want to see if you can up your CO2 (maybe add on a DIY bottle to up it?). If you are adding ferts all the time then you need to be doing bigger water changes. 50%'s

Umm yeah... I probably messed that all up.... some where... something to do with slow growing plants...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 03:51Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
I don't dose every day, when I tried that things went to h*ll in a hand basket fast, so I just started only dosing after waterchanges, usually NO3 is 10ppm after a water change, so I don't always add the NPK, it's usually the potassium and iron that the tank is short of. The bulk of my plants are low-light or slow growers, the two I just added won't be taking in much until their roots are established, thus potassium is needed rather than nitrate. The CO2, I tried to do a DIY but failed miserably, it just didn't work, I think I know why and what to do to fix it, I'm just gun-shy now. I am starting a new batch as the current batch is part of the batch that I made in a 1 1/2L bottle, I don't know how effective it will be, it has started to slow down. I have the sugar water made I just have to activate the yeast, then let it sit over night until the bubbles get going. That's about the only thing useful that came out of that failed experiment, I just need to get a new batch going in a different container to reduce down time. I could also look at the other kit that my brother got at Big Al's, it does up to 40 gallons, it is the Red Sea Turbo CO2 kit, it is similar to the Hagen one except the canister is bigger and it uses a pump as a diffuser. If I go that way I could move the Hagen kit to the 10. I really only want a bigger canister though, and the CO2 ladder to be back under the filter return.
Where's Ingo? I need to yell at him he was the one who said I should move it so it's not so obvious. There, yelling all done.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 05:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
I have been wondering the same thing all week? Has anyone heard from him? Hope things are ok!

I thought you were doing the more often method. Sorry!

DIY CO2 = not as hard as you are making it to be!

2L bottle
Table Spoon of Yeast
2 Cups of sugar

Put it all together and make CO2!
I was running 2 bottles to the same ladder to get more out of it. All you need is a T to connect them. If you run more than one to the same thing then you can change one of them out every two weeks. This will help make it more stable.






55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 05:43Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
Wings did you read about the failed experiment, scroll up and maybe back a page, I also had a thread going in Technical Tinkering. Oh man, that's what happens when you try to cheat though, I was tring to make it real simple, and it didn't work. If you want to have a laugh, maybe a cry check it out. I'm just trying to put it behind me and forget it ever happened.

The instructions for my kit recommend using two bottles for over 20 gallons, so I may look into that as well.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 05:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 591
Kudos: 393
Votes: 44
Registered: 08-Jun-2005
male australia
luvmykrib,

I'm using the Red Sea CO2 kit with my own mix in my 23g. So far it's been working pretty well. I like that the bottle is sturdy and can be hung on the back of the tank. The powered diffuser works well too. Still experimenting to get the ideal mix though (on my 3rd one right now) - so far I only get about 20ppm or less for about 2 weeks. You can read more about it here if you're interested.

Sorry to hear about your fish dilemma. Can't really hep unfortunately.

Been wondering the same thing about LF. He's probably on holiday. The other Big Apple guys (tetra & nowhere) probably know more.

Cheers!

-P
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 07:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
----------
Ultimate Fish Guru
Posts: 4241
Kudos: 1074
Registered: 04-Nov-2003
male usa
The other Big Apple guys (tetra & nowhere) probably know more.

All I know is that LF is fighting a mutant form of Protist in the south. The protist have mutated to a resistant form due to the less than pristine Jersey water supply. I'm trying to get a few days off from work to join the battle. Wish us luck.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 14:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 591
Kudos: 393
Votes: 44
Registered: 08-Jun-2005
male australia

Sounds like another civil war (or Star-grass War?) is brewing over there.
Don't forget your light sabre.

Now back to the original programming....

-P
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 16:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Master
Posts: 1880
Kudos: 922
Votes: 69
Registered: 21-Jun-2004
male usa
(Little do they know that I, the Protist Collaborator, introduced that mutant form they are rushing to fight... MUAHAHAHAHAHA! )

But seriously, maybe Jersey water is bad for fish tanks and for supporting life in general, but it's the best tasting water in the country... most of the time...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 16:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
So what is really going on with LF??

Bad algae issues = no posting?

I am lost!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 17:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
My brother has the red sea CO2 and I like it fine, the Hagen is also sturdy and hangs easily on the tank, I could get a second bottle for it or maybe get the turbo bottle and see how it goes with a bigger bottle.

Fish still dropping, lost that danio yesterday and another looks bad today, the last oto is clinging to the front glass as if to say "Get me outta here!"

Because of the meds in the water I'm not sure if I should do a water change or not. I could always estimate what I took out and re-dose accordingly, then I would feel better about the water in the tank. I took the peat out and the fish all look fine except the one danio. But each time one passes, another falls prey to whatever is lurking in the tank.


Nowhereman6 that's just not nice, you call them back right now!

Wherever LF is let's hope he is well, I still have a few things to say to him about messing with my mind though, and my tank! Although if he really wanted to come mess with my tank I wouldn't mind, I see what he can do with Jersey water, I wonder what he could do with Edmonton water?!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 09-Mar-2006 19:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Time for a little update. I have discovered the probable source of my fish woes. My brother, in perfectly innocent intent, gave me some frozen bloodworms, which I began feeding to my fish intermittantly. No fish were dying before they started getting that as a food source. I was at Big Al's today and I was told the bloodworms can give fish worms and other parasites. I bought some frozen mysis cubes and have tossed the last 2 cubes of bloodworms. I will continue to dose the tank for a full run, and I will do water changes as necessary to keep good water conditions. I picked up some Prazipro for roundworms and will do a run of it as well.
While I was there I also got two stealth heaters, one for each tank and looked at the Red Sea Turbo CO2 kit. I decided to stick with the Hagen for now and give it a good try before changing to something else. I went to Superpet Clearance and bought a second Hagen kit for the 10 gallon. It is waiting for 24 hrs for bubbles to appear. I switched out the batch in the other canister and now have a much better bubble rate. I think with the smaller canister I may have to do weekly changes to keep the CO2 level steady, after only one week the bubbles had slowed down tremendously. It's not like the yeast or sugar I'm using are really expensive or anything. Making it up in a 1L bottle and letting it sit 24 hrs really helps as well.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 11-Mar-2006 02:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
----------
Ultimate Fish Guru
Posts: 4241
Kudos: 1074
Registered: 04-Nov-2003
male usa
Were the kept frozen at all times? I've feed my fish frozen bloodworms for years without any problems.





My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 11-Mar-2006 19:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
I couldn't say as it was my brother's before he gave them to me. I kept it frozen all the time.
The fish are responding to treatment, the otos have unclamped their fins in the 10g, the oto in the 25 is still alive as is the danio in the 25 I thought was next to go. Treatment will continue for a full week of the mela-fix and pima-fix, which is almost done and possibly 2 weeks of the metro. With water changes when needed of course.

I bought some more new plants, a small bunch of lilaeopsis brassilensisrcuta (SP) 2 small bunches of ludwigia arcuata and one bunch of alternanthera reineckii 'rosafolia'. I planted all plants in both tanks just to see if they would grow in both tanks. I now have CO2 in both tanks and the growth in the 25 is really good. I am having some problems with algae in both tanks and am trying to figure out what needs to be done about that. Obviously I am lacking in some nutrients, bensaf has made that very clear, now to figure out which ones.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 13-Mar-2006 05:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
**********
---------------
----------
***** Little Fish *****
Master of Something
Posts: 7303
Kudos: 1997
Votes: 670
Registered: 20-May-2005
male usa
Where's Ingo? I need to yell at him he was the one who said I should move it so it's not so obvious. There, yelling all done.


Ok, let me have it

Yes, I am guilty. But not because I said you should move it. I am guilty because I neglected to consider your water current. Sorry about that .

Glad to hear that you seem to have found your fish problem source. I am hearing reports that are mixed when it comes to frozen foods, some say that they are safe while others say that simply freezing it will not kill the parasites. I don't feed any frozen (or live) food, only freeze dried.

Ingo


Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club
Post InfoPosted 14-Mar-2006 12:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Master
Posts: 1978
Kudos: 1315
Registered: 08-Apr-2004
male ireland
Obviously I am lacking in some nutrients, bensaf has made that very clear, now to figure out which ones.


Well what's the algae and what are you adding now ?


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 15-Mar-2006 16:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
I have a water change due today in the 25, I will test all values before the change and again after and post them here, there is only greenspot in that tank, I had a good look and that's all I can find. The new plants are growing well and are probably competing with the algae for nutrients now and the algae seems to be losing! Yay! The big algae problems are in the 10, I have BGA,BBA,hair/staghorn and greenspot all in that one little tank. I have added some new plants to that tank and will take readings of it and post them.

My dosing schedule is leave the nitrates alone as long as they don't fall below 10. Add iron and potassium every few days or when the plants look like they need it, holes form, leaves yellow etc. I only just started testing for P, now according to my test kit I am in the right range, I have 0.5 mg/L or ppm, according to what I read in the EI article and here, that number is way too low. I add trace with each water change as well. For ferts I use Nutrafin Plant Grow NPK and Plant Grow iron enriched trace elements, I use Seachem Flourish Iron and Potassium, and I have started using Blackwater extract and Marc Weiss Ketapang Vital, which softens water, may lower pH (not yet KH still too high) and adds trace elements, vitamins and hormones to the water. I usually have peat in the filter but haven't had it while dosing the tank and trying out the new blackwater stuff. I have the Hagen Plant Grow CO2 system set-up and running, the bubble rate is pretty low though. I was able to get some Brewer's yeast for free from a wine/beer making supply store and will make the next batches with the new yeast, hopefully the bubble rate will increase.

I picked up some new driftwood to add to the tank, this may help with softening the water and of course it should make my 'scape look better, I will see where the 2 pieces will fit in, I may have to move some plants around though, oh shucks!

PS, once I have the current params, before and after water change, maybe we can figure out what I should be dosing and how much. Here's the info on the Nutrafin products I am currently using.

Plant Gro NPK 0.6-0.3-2.4 5 ml per 10 gallons provides 3.5 mg/L Nitrate, 0.5 mg/L Phosphate and 2.5 mg/L Potassium

Plant Gro Iron enriched 0.15-0-0 5ml per 10 gallons provides 0.3 mg/L iron, Guaranteed analysis nitrogen 0.15%, iron 0.26%, Manganese 0.05%, Zinc 0.003%, Boron 0.0005%, Copper 0.0005%, Molybdate 0.0007%.


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 21:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
Pre-water change test results
pH 7.8 almost 8
GH 280 ppm
KH 90 ppm
NO3 5-10 ppm
PO4 0.5 ppm
Fe 0.5 ppm
Temp 76F/24.5 C

I tested the change water, the water that has been treated with prime, Ketapang Vital, peat (almost spent), and Kents Blackwater Expert has these readings
pH 6.5-7.0 (wide range test)
GH 160
KH 60

Major difference, I'll be adding the water very slowly I think, and adding some tap water to the bucket to raise those values just a bit. That stuff really works at reducing GH, KH and pH! The peat is coming out of the buckets finally, I have found something that works. I may do small water changes every other day until the tank has reached the values I want. I'm aiming for pH 6.8, the GH and KH that is in the buckets will do for me as well.


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 22:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
I decided to test the water going into the tank, it has been treated with prime, Marc Weiss Ketapang, and Blackwater extract, the readings are as follows:

pH 6.8
GH 160
KH 60

The stuff really works, the pH from the tap is 7.8, GH is 300 and KH is 300 ppm.

I did the water change, will test tomorrow when the tank has had a chance to settle. I added the 2 new pieces of driftwood and rearranged the plants a bit. I have left the CO2 ladder where it is for now, the heater is beside it now placed at a 45 degree angle, I am hoping this will help with heat distribution as well as water movement. When the water clears I will take some pics of the new layout, I like it but my 8 yr old son thinks one of the plants needs to be moved, I think it is a bit crowded with crypts, I'd like to take some out and put in some other plants, like the small-leaved ludwigia, or another red-leaf plant like the reineckii or the red ludwigia I have now, maybe a small-leaved or dwarf variety. I did take out the big sword as bensaf put it, it really took off all of a sudden, the one in the 10g will be going soon too. I may have a bit of an algal bloom due to it's removal, so the sooner I get a new plant to replace it the better.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 01:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Master
Posts: 1978
Kudos: 1315
Registered: 08-Apr-2004
male ireland
EditedEdited by bensaf
My dosing schedule is leave the nitrates alone as long as they don't fall below 10.


And you are trusting your test kit to tell you this?

Add iron and potassium every few days or when the plants look like they need it, holes form, leaves yellow etc.

Waiting for a deficiency to show is really too late.

But this touches on a very important and often over looked aspect of a successful tank.

A huge factor in whether or not you are successful is creating a simple habit. A good stable routine that's constant.

You've got a lot of stuff there and dosing seems to be haphazard, lot of messing with the water.

Keep it simple. Dose the NPK stuff 3 times a week to a rate of 5ppm NO3. Dose micros 3 times a week - 2.5ml for the 10 gal, 5ml for the 25gal each dose.
That's pretty much it.

Keep GH above 3dgh.

The blackwater extract will mess up your Co2 readings using the KH/pH chart.
Measure Co2 based on pH only.

Take some tank water and leave stand for 24 hrs to degas. After the 24hrs measure pH and at the same time measure tank pH. If your Co2 is at the desired rate of 30ppm the tank pH sould be 1 point lower then the 24hr sample.
i.e if the 24hr sample is 7.8pH then the tank should be 6.8pH, that's about 30ppm of co2.





Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 03:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
My aim for pH is to have the CO2 bring it to that value, the KH is still higher than hoped for (80 ppm) and I thought that affected the CO2 amount, which is why the messing with the water, I thought if I got the KH within range then the amount of CO2 would be higher, am I wrong in this? GH is definitely going to stay above 3, I haven't really been able to lower either GH or KH by very much, which is why I still search for a way to bring it to the desired level for optimal CO2 levels.

Thanks for the dosing regimen, I will follow it. In fact I'm copying it out right now.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 04:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
I might have to brake down and try it. Right now my CO2 is right about where I want it so I am not going to mess with it.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 07:30Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Master
Posts: 1978
Kudos: 1315
Registered: 08-Apr-2004
male ireland
EditedEdited by bensaf
I thought if I got the KH within range then the amount of CO2 would be higher, am I wrong in this?


Way way way wrong. But it's a common enough mistake and mis understanding.

KH is a buffer it's not in and of itself a source of Co2.

People read a little about the KH/pH relationship and think "hey if reduce that (KH) I'll get more Co2 !". Doesn't happened , the pH will drop with it and the amount of Co2 will remain the same -and vice versa.

The only reason KH needs to be altered is if it's less then 2dgh as this low of a buffer will lead to serious pH swings when Co2 is introduced.

You are making things very had on yourself. No need to play with GH/KH/pH unless they are too low. pH should never be messed with unless through the addition of Co2.

Forget about the black water extracts and all that. Your tap water is very similar to mine 7.8ph here out of the tap, 5 KH and 8Gh. Yet I can grow anything and keep most all kinds of fish. Why give yourself a headache.

Keep it simple. Co2 will be your biggest problem. Focus on getting that right. Forget the buffers etc. Keep a very simple dosing routine as outlined above. Get the Co2 right.




Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 08:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
It's the GH and KH that are not the same, mine are way over 5, 300ppm for both from the tap, this works out to about 17 degrees, at that level there is no change in pH when CO2 is injected and my bubble rate for CO2 is so low that I doubt it's doing any good! The blackwater stuff brings the KH down to about 6, which I can live with, the GH I don't really worry about as there is not much I can do about it, the extract does reduce it as well though not as much as the KH, and I test it to see where it's at but it has been the high KH from the tap that has me going crazy. Do I have any effect from the CO2 with the KH that high? At 17 degrees I mean, obviously 6 is ok. If I can achieve 6 with the blackwater then that's what I am using it for, I am not going for 3 or anything, or trying to lower pH, it just happens with the stuff to some extent. I'm going to re-read Chuck Gadds article and go through the EI article as well.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 20:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Yesterday my computer was possesed or something, thus the extra posts that mean nothing and I couldn't reply at all when I wanted to. Now bensaf is off celebrating, as is most everyone else. But I have to report that I have lost another oto, I now have no otos in the 25, I still have the original pair in the 10 though so I'm not completely otoless. I'll be posting some new pics soon, I will warn you the tank looks completely different, better I'd say, but different still so it has taken some getting used to. I may still move a couple of plants around and I'm looking for a couple other's to add better balance in the tank. Overall I'm pleased with the new look. Now to get the CO2 going better. I'm trying another DIY canister, the traditional 2L pop bottle in addition to the Hagen canister already on the tank, I figure I need both due to the high KH...so that's what I'll do.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 02:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Master
Posts: 1978
Kudos: 1315
Registered: 08-Apr-2004
male ireland
EditedEdited by bensaf
this works out to about 17 degrees, at that level there is no change in pH when CO2 is injected and my bubble rate for CO2 is so low that I doubt it's doing any good!


So what do you think is the main problem , the Kh or the low bubble rate ?

If your co2 bubbling is so low it probably doesn't matter what your KH is. That's top priority.

If the blackwater is reducing the KH and it's easy to dose , fine. But be aware that most KH reducers have a lot of phosphate.

If it's a small tank maybe mixing your tap water with RO/DI or bottled water is an option ?

Co2 is still your biggest problem.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 03:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
My guess is too low a bubble rate. So to start with I'll add a second CO2 bottle and see what happens with that. The extract is really easy to use, I just add it to the water before the water goes into the tank. The timing is the tricky part, too long and it drops the pH a lot, not long enough and it has no effect at all. It drops the KH the same in either circumstance though. RO water may be an option for the smaller tank, but the extract does as well for it, I'd maybe look at using it to cut the tap water with, I think it would have the same effect as the blackwater though. The blackwater extract has no phosphates in it.

I entered the results into Chuck Gadds CO2 caculator and I'm at 2 ppm right now. Not good.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 03:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
EditedEdited by luvmykrib
As promised new pics of the tank, please ignore the greenish tinge, it's going away I swear.

[link=The whole tank in perspective] http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/Wholetankperspective.jpg[/link]
The whole tank closer up
The Right side
The left side

Sorry wingsdlc, she just wasn't posing for me tonight, she was checking out the new set-up and kept ducking behind the plants as I was shooting. Her colour is just as good as always though.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 04:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Master
Posts: 1978
Kudos: 1315
Registered: 08-Apr-2004
male ireland
The tanks looking pretty good, certainly nothing to be ashamed of

Plants look healthy, although a few look like they've just been planted ?

Get see any major algae apart from some green spot on the crypts.

2ppm means your DIY Co2 is doing nothing. @ppm is what you'd expect from a non injected tank.

Even for DIY that's bad. Obviously something off in the mixture or it's not being diffused at all.

Having said that the blackwater extract will be throwing off your calculation using the KH/pH chart.

Try testing using the 24 hr method I describe above and see if you get the same result.

If I leave some tank water sitting for 24 hrs I get a reading of 7.8pH, the tank is measuring at 6.7pH. So I'm certain I'm above the 30ppm mark even without measuring KH or worrying if something in the tank is messing with the KH. A lot of time the KH/pH table can give a false reading. pH kits can be wrong at least with this method if the kit is wrong it'll be wrong by the same amount for both samples, so I still get an accurate Co2 reading. It's not the level of pH that's important it's the size of the drop from the Co2 injection.




Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 05:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Ooh a compliment, thanks, I never thought I'd get one from you bensaf! I think it's starting to look pretty good, yes some of the plants have been planted recently and some may be moving still, either to another locale in the tank or out of the tank altogether. There are a couplke of spots where I want to add more plants that are similar yet not exactly the same, within the same family at least. I love the ludwigia arcuata with it's tiny leaves, and the reineckii, I hope it does well, and the same with the ludwigia repens (I think that's what it is, that or a hygro of some sort, the tall red one in the back). I put the names here when I put them in but I haven't got them in my book yet. I keep a gardening diary for my land plants outside and decided to do the same thing for my aquatic ones as well.

That batch is only a week old too. I think that says something about that system. The tank is only 5 gallons bigger than what it's made for and the CO2 mix is supposed to last up to 4 weeks, I thought I'd get at least 2 weeks in between new batches. Tomorrow I'll get the bigger canister (2L) up and running and then I'll try your way of testing to see how I've done. I have decided to keep a log (hand written) of the testing results to keep track of them. I especially want to track the CO2 progress. I really don't want to have to go pressurized just yet, but if I have to...

The Hagen system IS working fine in my 10 gallon tank though. So I think it is just too small for the 25 gallon. Here's hoping the 2L bottle works better!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 06:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
**********
---------------
----------
***** Little Fish *****
Master of Something
Posts: 7303
Kudos: 1997
Votes: 670
Registered: 20-May-2005
male usa
Indeed, your tank doesn't look bad at all

This is one of these cases where the owner of a tank is its worst critic, I suffer from the same disease. The closer one gets the less one is satisfied with the results.

Anyway, I would suggest that for now you keep on trying to get your CO2 up and leave the plants where they are. Once this is done you can get started on giving the tank more structure, if needed.

Ingo


Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club
Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 12:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
Luv,

Lets talk about your mix a little.

How much sugar?
How much yeast?
How much water?
Water temp?
Order of adding in.


This is what I used to do:
~2 Cups of sugar mixed with screaming hot 3-4 cups of water. This disolves the suger really well and super fast.
~2 cups of cool water mixed with about a tps of yeast. Let that disolve. I stired my up to speed this up.
~ Once the yeast mix is good and milky looking I add that in to the 2L too.
~ Put on a non-drilled cap and shake the crap out of it.
~ Lossen the cap so it doesn't blow and let it sit for a couple of hours.
~ Add to the system.

When I was running two 2L's on the same system I wouldn't let it sit for very long. Just hook it up and go. I was figuring that the other bottle would help even out any problems with temp and sucking water from the tank.

Something else I just thought of. How warm is your house? My appartment stays pretty tosty. Maybe upper 70's to lower 80's. I guess thats what happens when you have 170G of water flowing around in a cracker jack box. Anyways if your house temp is too low the yeast will not work as well.

I think a double 2L system is going to be your best bet to get your CO2 up. I was running 3 2L's on my 40G. I never tested it but I am sure I could have hooked up an other one without any damage.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 16:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
I have been using 1 cup of sugar in the Hagen bottle, the yeast that came with it seemed to be old so I have been using my baker's yeast, about a quarter of a teaspoon, it's a much smaller container, then I fill it up with warm water to the top mark. My house is now kept steady at 19C during the day and 17C at night. I find 20C too warm for me, unless I'm not feeling well, then I turn it up a bit. In the 2L bottle(s) I will try your method and see how it goes, you think I need 2 bottles rather than one? The Hagen bottle is about 500-650 ml.

LF- I will leave the plants alone for now, then I can tweak it later. I keep forgetting I have to re-plant again anyway when the new gravel goes in. I found Eco-Complete at Big Al's in Edmonton, I'm thinking a 1" layer of that under the natural river gravel will be good. 2-3" of river gravel and I should have lots of substrate. They have the florite too but it's all the wrong colour, it would have to be under the eco I would think. Maybe a 1" layer across the back, then it would be sloped and the nutrients would be where the plants need it, I don't plant all the way to the glass, so I wasn't sure about putting the eco to the glass either. I've got an article about setting up an amano tank and I'm going to try for the same type of substrate system he uses, I can't do the whole set-up he does 'cause the fish and plants have to go in on the same day! If I could set-up another tank from scratch I would do it right and follow it step by step.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 23:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Ugh! My connection went down. I wanted to ask you Wingsdlc how long you let it sit for? Not too long doesn't tell me much, in my house it takes about 2 hrs to see any bubbles in the bottle. I now have two bottles started, and another cap drilled, sealed and curing. I have also cranked the heat up a bit to get things going. It seemed to have improved the bubble rate for the bottle already on the tank.
Now to work out where the bottles will go when they are connected to the tank. There's no room or shelf in behind the tank, the table beside the tank is very low. I may need some more time to work this out.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 00:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
Sorry about not giving you a time on how long I let the bottle sit. Most of they time it would only be a couple of hours at most. After letting it sit I would shake the junk out of it again just to make sure its good and mixed. When I was running 3 bottles I would be changing my mix every week in a different bottle so the bottles were only running 3 weeks each.

I think your house temp might be part of the problem. 62F at night and 66F in the day is kind of cool The yeast might not like it as much. My little studio apt stay well I am guess close to 80F most of the time. It helps that its pretty high humidity being I have 175G of water floating around from my 5 tanks.

Best of luck! Let us know how things go!

About tearing down your tank... best of luck with that too! If you go with Florite put small amounts of it in a large net and rinse it in there. Works great! Way better than a 5G bucket.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 05:35Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Thanks Wings! I will remember that about the florite, I may be able to do the changeover sooner than expected, but I want to get the CO2 down before making any more major changes in the tank. Though that gravel is the last thing driving me crazy, except I didn't find it as bad in the last set of pics. Anyone else find it not as noticeble or am I just blocking really well?
I have a mesh bag with the CO2 bottle in it hanging beside the tank. I'm letting it sit overnight again, no bubbles yet, could be bad yeast, the guy did say they were expired and he gave them to me for free. I have turned up the heat in the house a bit and have the second bottle sitting over a heat vent in a bathroom cabinet. I have 2 cats and a dog see and I don't want them knocking things over thus things must be placed with that foremost in mind.
I was trying to figure out how to keep the bottles with the shortest distance between them and the tank and was thinking about adding a shelf under the tank, on top of the tank stand, the shelf would stick out about 6 inches in back of the tank. The tank would still be square on the stand and I would then have a place to hide the CO2 bottles. Obviously I can't do this with the water in the tank, so it would have to wait for the breakdown and re-plant. Then while talking to my brother we came up with the hanging mesh bags. The bag is hanging off a picture hook beside and behind the tank, this way it is at the right height and not as visible. It may be I won't need the shelf after all.

Wings what yeast did you use? Baker's yeast or did you try brewer's yeast? I am having little luck with any yeast except the stuff that came with my second hagen unit.

Bensaf, I need to make this 100% clear as day before I go ahead with it. You've been saying I can add water from my tap with nothing but prime in it, no peat extracts to adjust KH, GH and pH, just prime and it will be fine and my CO2 will be fine and the tank will be fine and the fish will be fine? I am really not sure about this as I have spent so much time trying to soften the water and condition it so it will be best for the fish and plants that I am feeling like I am standing on a cliff without a parasail or a chute and am about to jump. We're talking fear here, I'm afraid to let go of the peat, I like the peat but you say I don't need the peat. The fish have adjusted to the peat, but new fish haven't been doing so well in that tank lately, which is why I'm thinking about making this change. Then the water at the store and the water here would be a better match. Same as the water from the tap and the water in the tank. Please assure me this will be fine. We're talking KH 300, pH 7.8, and I'm still not 100% clear on the pH/KH/CO2 thing but I'm trusting you. I'm adding 2 2L bottles of CO2 to the tank as soon as tomorrow, I need to know it will be ok to do so and let the pH and KH sort itself out in the tank.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 07:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Master
Posts: 1978
Kudos: 1315
Registered: 08-Apr-2004
male ireland
You've been saying I can add water from my tap with nothing but prime in it,


People been quoting me on things I don'r remember saying. Prime ? I've never used Prime or mentioned it to anyone

Basically the only lem with your tap water is the Kh. It'll take a lot of Co2 to make a dent in it. DIY may not cut it.

Continue to use the blackwater extract to reduce it if easy.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 17:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
I was only using bakers yeast.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 19:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Sorry bensaf, Prime is the water conditioner I'm using now, I should have said dechlorinator instead of Prime, but basically my question was should I stop worrying about the KH or continue to adjust it using the blackwater extract? The extract does bring the KH to a more manageble level, cuts it in half actually, but it is still above 5 dKH. If I keep it at that level then I can be assured that when the CO2 starts making bubbles I will actually be getting CO2 in the water, and the KH will prevent a major drop in pH. This is what I want to be sure of. Yes the blackwater is easy to use. And I have it on hand and it's no more expensive than the fertilizers I am using.

Thank you very much for your patience with me, I am still trying to figure all this out, the tank is only a year old and it has gone through so many changes in such a short time, but I think I'm getting closer to understanding everything. I took your dosing schedule for the tanks and printed out a Maintenance schedule for them, that goes into my diary and is posted beside the small tank here above my desk. This way I'm reminded when to do things like add ferts and stuff.

Wings, I had to make a new batch of yeast as the brewers yeast was dead, no bubbles at all. So I'm back to baker's yeast and I followed your instructions. My poor tank is without CO2 as the old bottle is almost completely spent now and the new one won't be ready for at least a couple of hours. Yikes, it almost makes me want to go pressurized! But such expense and hassle for a 25 gallon tank, at least the tank is looking better than ever.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 20:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
The real deal is cool but I am starting to have algae issues with my tank. Not really sure on the cause yet. Didn't happen until I switched over though.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 21:43Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Master
Posts: 1978
Kudos: 1315
Registered: 08-Apr-2004
male ireland
As long as you are using the DIY co2, probably best to use the extract to drop the KH. 5 dgh is absolutely fine.

You will probably not get an accurate reading of Co2 using the blackwater so use the method I describe above to test.




Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 03:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
The 2 2L bottles are up and running! I have 1 bubble/second I think, they're really coming through now. So to be sure on this if the tank is at 6.8 and the water that sits overnight is at 7.8 then I've got 30ppm right? Or is that wrong? As long as the fish aren't gasping at the surface before bed tonight I think I won't worry, there's never been this many CO2 bubbles in the tank. I have the filter on high at night and during the day I turn the filter down to mid-low. Thus maximizing the CO2 level. The ladder is right beside the heater which is placed at a really low angle horizontally, in the middle of the back of the tank as close to the gravel as I can get it. Thus I have good water flow past the ladder I hope. As the warmer water moves up it is drawn over towards the filter return and the CO2 bubbles that reach the surface can be seen to be drawn towards the flow and pushed back down into the tank. I hope it's a good set-up as I find it the best visually, all the hardware will soon be camoflaged by the plants.

I find it a nice tank to look at and spent hours today just tank watching from my Ikea bentwood chair, which doesn't face the TV but has it's back to the TV and faces the tank, who needs TV anyway?

Thanks to everyone for getting me this far. Of course this isn't the end of this log, I still have the substrate change and replant to do, which I am eager for and yet reluctant as I am finally happy with the tank. Maybe when things start to grow and get crowded I won't feel the same way. Then there's always new fish. Soon I think the danios will have had their day, I am down to 3 and two look like they are fading, the last I'm sure is one of the original 6 that I cycled the tank with and will be sad to se him go. I think though in their place will be brilliant rasboras, they are quietly flashy and are compatible with the barbs. On the other hand they are not considered compatible with the krib. I can't find any fish other than danios that are top-dwellers and compatible with both the barbs and the krib, but I am still looking. I have time after all. I won't be adding any fish until after the change I think, that will give the tank time to adjust and settle back down. And the current fish won't be stressing over new tank mates while fighting off the worms or whatever is in there.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 07:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Master
Posts: 1978
Kudos: 1315
Registered: 08-Apr-2004
male ireland
So to be sure on this if the tank is at 6.8 and the water that sits overnight is at 7.8 then I've got 30ppm right?


Correct. If the drop in pH is less then 1 you have less then 30ppm if it's more then a 1 point drop you have more then 30ppm. I've got a chart somewhere I'll dig out for you.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 08:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
Nothing new really going on in the 25, except that after 2 days of good bubble rate for CO2, the rate has really dropped, 2 bottles isn't enough! If I did 3 and changed one every week would that be excessive? Pressurized is starting to look really good, except for the expense involved, my Hubby may decide not to come home ever! The temp in the house may have something to do with it, but I find anything over 20C and I am not comfortable, nor is my wallet when the gas bill comes. I should get great CO2 in the summer when it is too hot for me in the house.

The 10 is completely overrun with BBA, staghorn and thread I think, the algae is pearling on the plants! Could it be that there is not enough light/plants to handle the CO2 and the nutrients? If so, then I guess a re-plant is in order, It is currently 15 watts over 10 gallons. I can get the plant grow bulb, it has a better spectrum of light. I can't re-do the light like I did for the 25, that's way over the top. I suppose I could go for my own little crypt, anubias and java fern mound, stick with the low-light plants and take out the CO2 or reduce the fert schedule to accomodate the slower-growing plants? Any advice on this would be appreciated. I could start a new log but I don't want to add to the growing number of folks here with MLS (multiple LOG syndrome). Thus I guess the occasional question and comment about the 10 will go in here as well.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 23:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
----------
Ultimate Fish Guru
Posts: 4241
Kudos: 1074
Registered: 04-Nov-2003
male usa
EditedEdited by tetratech
Nothing new really going on in the 25, except that after 2 days of good bubble rate for CO2, the rate has really dropped, 2 bottles isn't enough! If I did 3 and changed one every week would that be excessive? Pressurized is starting to look really good, except for the expense involved, my Hubby may decide not to come home ever! The temp in the house may have something to do with it, but I find anything over 20C and I am not comfortable, nor is my wallet when the gas bill comes. I should get great CO2 in the summer when it is too hot for me in the house.
Tell me again, why your not simply using excel in this tank.

The 10 is completely overrun with BBA, staghorn and thread I think, the algae is pearling on the plants! Could it be that there is not enough light/plants to handle the CO2 and the nutrients? If so, then I guess a re-plant is in order, It is currently 15 watts over 10 gallons.

15w over 10, that's like no light and your making it way to complicated with the co2. You should be using lowlight plants and dosing a smigden here and a smigden there. If you want to add a few drops of excel go right ahead.


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 23:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
DeletedPosted 22-Mar-2006 23:45
This post has been deleted
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
I was using Excel in the 25 and the 10, Excel wasn't enough for the 25 when I changed the light, thus DIY CO2, I found part of the problem was a leak, so in luvmykrib fashion after posting for help I found the problem and took steps to fix it. I took off the old sealant around the tube into the bottle, added new sealant to the top of the tube wher it joins the check valve, then pulled the tube all the way down until the check valve tube was visible inside the cap, it swells there enough to cause a natural seal and the sealant will keep it in place. Then I added some old towels from my rag bucket to the bottom of the mesh bag to insulate the bottles from the bottom. Hopefully this will help with the major problem of my DIY CO2 system, a new batch of CO2 will be coming up soon, I will stick with 2 bottles for now, changing them in rotation every 1-2 weeks as needed. That tank does have the lights and plants to need CO2 and will be getting more plants as soon as I can get them.

Tetratech, the 10 will be going low tech, it does have a pitiful amount of light except for the hour each day when my sky-light lets the sun in and some of that strikes the tank, I have a blind in the kitchen window to block as much as I could, then noticed there was the sky-light to contend with as well! The tank will be moving as soon as I can get someplace to set it on out of the line of fire. Co2 may still be of some benefit to that tank once I get the light situation figured out. Dosing macros will be reduced to a smidgeon here and a smidgeon there, mostly after water changes. I will be adding a mound, which means more anubias, fern and crypts, the lone val in that tank has produced a baby, it didn't like the bigger tank at all, but it likes the 10 just fine. I will be looking for ideas for my new mound idea, I've been toying with it for awhile, I just need more larger-sized rocks and a few more small pieces of intersting driftwood, then I can add in more plants and away we go. I'll either wind up with a mound or a reef, I'm not sure yet.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 00:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Master
Posts: 1978
Kudos: 1315
Registered: 08-Apr-2004
male ireland
For the 10 I'd forget about the DIY co2.

I've never tried DIY and never will, just not worth the hassle with bottles and the problems of inconsistent Co2. Unstable Co2 will cause tons more algae problems then anything else.

Injected gas is a bit pricey for a 10gal.

Definately low tech is in the long term way more bang for your buck, just need some patience.

I've got 18watts over a 5 gal and find it hard to grow stuff.

Definately just stick to mosses, Anubias, crypts - just wood and rock to fill in space. A very nice pain free tank. Use excel and little bit of micro fert. Those plants won't make much demand on macros fish should be able to keep up.




Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 04:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
*******
-----
Fish Addict
Posts: 585
Kudos: 256
Votes: 27
Registered: 08-Nov-2005
female canada
The problem with taking the CO2 off the 10 is that I have already bought 2 of the Hagen Systems and have replaced the canister on the 25 with 2 larger canisters. They are non-refundable, I am considering upping the light, maybe going topless?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus
Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 05:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
*********
----------
Fish Guru
What is this?
Posts: 2332
Kudos: 799
Registered: 18-Jan-2005
male usa
maybe going topless?


Getting a little wild around here at night.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 06:19Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
# Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Post Reply  New Topic
Jump to: 

The views expressed on this page are the implied opinions of their respective authors.
Under no circumstances do the comments on this page represent the opinions of the staff of FishProfiles.com.

FishProfiles.com Forums, version 11.0
Mazeguy Smilies