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  L# LITTLE_FISH 125G Log
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SubscribeLITTLE_FISH 125G Log
LITTLE_FISH
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Opera Cliff Notes

Attached Image:

Summary Before - After



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 01:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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WOW! Major change Ingo! I liked the jungle before and the new look looks good too! Hope you recover enough to tell us more about how it went, from your earlier post it didn't sound like it went all that well. Aren't you risking another algae outbreak with the smaller plant load?
How can you tell with the otos how they are doing? Mine showed no symptoms other than clamped fins until I found them dead, in the 10g I have clamped otos that have continued to live while I lost panda cories. They really didn't give me any warning as to their health.

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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 02:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Cup_of_Lifenoodles
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Funny...it looks good no matter how you rearrange it.
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 02:19Profile AIM MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I am not really sure which one I like better. I think there are things about both that I like and dislike but I can't really point them out for some reason. Maybe its because it took me an hour to close the store tonight... people just wouldn't leave!

I guess one thing I really like is the tall grassy stuff in the front. I think that looks sharpe! Other than that I don't know either way. What are your plans for a forground plant? Sag? Going to keep things simple this time?

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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 05:43Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bcwcat22
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I definatly like the second one better though I am unsure about that red plant on the far right. Great looking tank though!

Plz stop shaming my algae ridden tanks

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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 05:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Gang,

Thanks for the input. I really was tired yesterday, and agitated, to say the least. I did not plan to spend another 7 hours on the tank. But once I started to weed out heavily invested plants one step led to the next and before I knew it the tank was pretty much empty again. I thought that I will use this chance to replant/reorganize the plant groups, as the previous layout could not be recreated because so many plants "had to go".

I will break down the tank sections into 4 parts and explain what went on in my mind and in the process of creating them.

Section A - Anubias Farm

First of all, based on previous suggestions, I decided to group the Anubias together. That in itself is a great idea, the leaf forest will serve as a great base for Espei breeding. So, I placed all anubias on a tray and started to trim off old leaves and in most cases also to divide the plants into 2 as the rhizomes where long enough to do so.
I removed the Anubias first from the tank (not knowing how long this all will take) and hours later, when it was time to put them back in, I checked on them for the first time since trimming.
I was in shock, half the leaves were rolled up and appeared totally dried out and dead. Later, after a while in the tank, most seemed to have recovered though. I tied the Congensis to a rock and placed that one close to the Star Grass as a seperator. Also, the tiny Nana Petites are tied to a small rock.
In addition, I added all my crypt types into this section. The Bacopa is there a a filler, it doesn't fit in but I need fast growers to re-establish the tank.

Attached Image:

Section A



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 13:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Section B - Main Group

This one was the the easy part, at least concerning the Star Grass as I was happy with it's placement. All plants in front of it were removed and I had to figure out what could go in their place. For one thing, I was able to remove the large rock that holds down the wood and replace it with a smaller one. The fern on the wood didn't look all that good in the leftmost position, so I placed it in the crack between wood and rock. That pretty much left me only with the Cyperus Helferi as a plant in front of the Star Grass.
Probably because it took so long for it to grow I simply could not let go of the Helferi. It got a 10 min bleach bath (19 water, 1 bleach) followed by rinsing and storing for hours in clean water (only a few other plants recieved leach baths, they were only dunked in bleach solution and then rinsed off).
Only after adding them back to the tank did I realize that the fuzz is still on them, but I was running out of time. The threads are white or gray and I am afraid that they still contain enough bleach to sicken anyone who may nibble at them.
The overall problem I have with this group is that it is too green. The leaf shape varies, that is good, but all are the same color.

Attached Image:

Section B



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 13:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Section C - The Valley

For this section I had a clear vision, Pearl Grass all the way from the back to the wood, in a sloping fashion. This was an idea that I had going for quite a while, I even suggested a similar approach to upikabu at some point.

Well, I did it and the problem I see now is that I don't get any depth perception of the slope. It looks flat. Maybe if I grow it even further to the front (really low there) then it may work better.

Attached Image:

Section C



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 13:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Section D - What is that?

This section is truely bad and a shame for this tank. I pretty much ended up there with all plants that I don't want to dispose off but couldn't fit in anywhere else.

The Red Rubin Sword was bleach bathed and heavily trimmed, the Alternanthera got a bleach bath too. I need to maintain the Ludwigia as a fast grower, maybe if it gets fuller and taller it will look nice there, don't know yet.

So basically, it is a mess.

And this is why I am not happy. You work so hard on this and the rewards are mixed, at best. It made me feel like I just don't have a good enough vision on how to plant a tank nicely.

Attached Image:

Section D



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 14:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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LF,

Don't let your tank get you down. Its still a work in progress and its cool that you have the guts to try new stuff with your tank. Most of us don't want to don't want to change anything with our tanks. Myself I am dreading to my algae issues on my giant hygro. I guess the moral of the story is that things change, you change your mind and you can always change it again. Get on with it!

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 15:16Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Ingo, your tank looks great. You are too self critical - but then, most of us are.
Most of us don't want to don't want to change anything with our tanks
Wings is right, you always seem so keen get stuck in & try things in your tank, when others hold back. Sometime ago, you suggested I ask the planted tank gang in a thread, with a pic of my tank, for help to make it look better. Because I don't have the energy at the moment to rearrange, I havn't done that - I have held back. You wouldn't do that - you'd be in it straight away. (I want to sort out my C02 one way or the other first - then I come & ask for help). But you, you'd jump straight in. Good job on the replant. But then, it looked good to me before too.

Cheers
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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 15:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech


Not quite sure I know where to start. I liked the tank after you added the wood, but I understand the mass wasn't there to continue.

I think right now you have to fiqure out how not to get into this situation again so the plants get destroyed.

Light, Biofilter, Fish Load, Plant Mass, C02, Nutrients
We need to find out the problem and then move on to the scaping.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 16:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Where the heck did you get the idea to give a 10 minute bleach bath ? 2 minutes will do it.

Don't worry about the white stuff it's dead algae. Won't harm anyone the fish will make a snack out of it.

Stop worrying full stop. This is supposed to be fun !!!!!

DO NOT DO ANOTHER MAJOR OVERHAUL LIKE THIS FOR A WHILE.iT'S UNSETTLING.

Ok. cap lock off.

Where did you get that much pearlgrass?

You're being hard on your self. A 125 gal is no easy job to scape.
You are on the right track big groupings of a few species is the way to go.The Anubias was a good idea to put together.

Again all that's needed is a big bunch of something dramatic Aromatica type plant.Behind the peargrass would be perfect. Fill out the front left with more crypts -plain old wendtii will do. Behind that some kind of filler like Cambomba to give some lightness. Then fill out the right side with something like Wisteria. I'm keeping to simple cheap easy to find plants to promote some stability. Around the wood and rock fill out with Wendelov Fern or NArrow leaf or more Anubias.

Keep the dosing routine simple and steady. Don't waver.

Fill out the plants as outlined above, keep the dosing steady, sit back and watch for a few weeks. Patience is key, it can take weeks for plants to fill out the way we want them to. Let them fill out with cheapies and fast growers so you can a feel for a full look and shaping. Play with shape of these til you settle on a look you like.

BTW those plants you got a few weeks ago you thought were Anubias - how they doing?



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 17:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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All - Thank you so much for the encouragement and constructive critzism, I appreciate it.

Yeah, I know that THE most important thing now is balance. I think one problem I created recently was letting the P drop too low (I know, I know, you told me so). I lost all Duckweed, none left, zip, nada, I take it as an indicator for a lack of P as it likes P (and high N).

Bensaf, as sad as it is, I kind of enjoy worrying, that's my nature . It keeps my mind busy and the job intereting. I am almost afraid that just sitting back won't cut it for me.

This doesn't mean you guys should stop helping me out when I am in dispair, please.

That much Pearl Grass? I even through some out. I will post a picture below, just before the current one (weekly update), that shows the tank front full of it all over the place.

I like the Anubias group idea as well, I just don't know if its execution was performed all that well. The "suspicious" Anubias from a few weeks back are still there and they are getting new leaves. I now assume they are Congensis as they look a lot like the ones I just got.

Filler plants for the time being: Good idea, I will just have to get them and find the time to put them in. We will see. I for sure will keep my dosing of ferts up, no reduction.

The front left contains Crypts, as you will see in a close-up shorly. So, on to the main topic.


Weekly tank update - Week 25

Almost all details have been discussed above, but here is a quick summary: Coming back from vacation I noticed that my CO2 ran out. This enhanced an already existing Thread algae problem and the week was used to discuss a possible cleaning/replanting effort. This has been done yesterday and the results, from a visual perspective, are mixed (you be the judge).

The postive highlight of the week was the trade in of 30 Espei as part of a payment for a pair of Apistogrammas. I love them and so far they are doing well in the QT.

Here are some pictures:

First the tank the week before the first major overhaul, in week 18. It was pretty jungle like and the overhaul was needed to retrofit the tankwith wood and to avoid overgrowing.

Attached Image:

Week 18



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 18:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Now here is a picture of the tank from last weekend, week 24. As you can see (Bensaf), there are loads of Pear Grass growing all over the front of the tank.

They all come from one small batch that I purchased when I set up the tank 25 weeks ago. This plant is versatile, easy to replant, easy to divide, grows partially shaded, in summary a plant that I would recommed any time.

I find that this layout / growth did not give the tank any depth.

Attached Image:

Week 24



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 18:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Now, the tank as of today - week 25

It looks much emptier, partially of course because I removed dying or bad growing plants like most of the Crypt Retrospiralis and Sags / Dwarf Swords. The plant arrangements are not really what I would like to maintain in the long run, but sentimental reasons (Helferi, for example) and fast growers (Bacopa, for example) led to this arrangement.

BTW: I counted 5 Otos this morning, so I take it they are doing fine.

Attached Image:

Week 25 - today



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 18:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a close-up of the Anubias group:

The Nana and Barteri form the center, the Congensis on the right back and the maybe Congensis almost hidden on the left back. The small rock with the Nana Petite is in the front of the main group, flanked by Crypt Lucens and Lutea.

In itself this would for sure make a nice tank, like a 29G. I just don't know how it looks in conjunction with my other plants.

Attached Image:

Anubias Farm



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 18:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Now here is a close-up of the green and red Crypt Wendtiis. I collected them from all over the tank, at least what was left of them, and placed them in one big group, rather close to each other to encourage growth (I think Wings suggested this at some point).

We will see how they are doing there, but traditionally I am not too successful with Wendtiis as they usually have one leaf melting for each new one in all of my 3 tanks.

Attached Image:

Wendtii Farm



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 18:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a close-up of two surviving Glosso stems. They made it all the way through the 2 major overhauls. This time though I actually removed them from the tank before vacuuming to make sure that they will survive.

I don't know what I will do with them once they should decide to take off again. I somehow like the open foreground. Maybe the next fish to get should be a school of Cories, I will have to think about it.

Attached Image:

Glosso



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 18:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Now here is an interesting observation, maybe you have a similar experiece. The Rainbows and the Pearls like to "hang out" together, I would almost go as far as to say that they are schooling together.

This is in particular obvious since my rather brutal netting of the Espei in last weeks trade-in. Before that it seemed to mostly happen before feeding time.

Attached Image:

Pearl and Rainbow Gang



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 19:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Now, this week cannot be complete without showing the Apistos again

They are truely lovely fish and I can only recommend them. It would break my heart if they would not make it in my tank(s). The initial aggression of the Platies towards them has stopped, the male is now clearly the boss in the tank.

Here is the female.She spends most of the time perusing the tank and nipping on plants and gravel. I don't know if she is going for small snails or plant matter. When she feeds on the surface it makes a clicking sound. Beautiful to watch.

Attached Image:

Female



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 19:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
And here is the male. He spends all day patrolling the tank and chasing the Platies, in particular after feeding when all the food is eaten. I wonder why he does that? I think he has colored-up even more and he for sure is nice to observe.

Both male and female are true stalkers. They swim up to something (like moss or gravel) hover for a second or two in front of it, and then they go in for the kill (or whatever they do there), really fast. The same can be said for their routine of surface feeding. They hover just below the surface, eye the food, and then shoot forward to catch it (with a click). Even without reading about it I can say that in nature they eat flies etc. that fall in the water.

Isn't he beautiful?

Attached Image:

Male



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 19:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Gorgeous LF. Really gorgeous. Have you considered using your 20 or 29g as a breeding tank. Might be kinda fun?



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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 19:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks tetratech

I first want to make sure that they make it though QT. My Rams also looked fine for a while, and then they died .

And if you don't tell my wife, maybe a commited 10G for breeding (at some point) might be appropriate. What I know so far is that there is quite some time invoved in growing out the fry. Also, it is virtually impossible to identify males and females for a long time. This would mean that you have to keep as many fry as you can to assure possible pairs later on.

So overall this would be quite a challenge.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 20:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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Thay are absolutely beautiful! I love the way he flares his spines in the pic of the male. Their behavior is typical cichlid hunting behavior I think as my krib does the same things. It's a delight to watch her picking around the tank. I love it when she jumps out from behind the main driftwood and lunges at one of the other residents, they flee madly away from her and she looks so smug, it's like she's playing a game only she can understand. They may eat bits of the plants but not destroy them. I feed algae flakes every now and then, it is good for the digestion. Most cichlids are omnivorous opportunity feeders. They are truly magnificent Ingo, I really hope they make into their final home with no issues, once there they will quickly become the rulers of their territory I'm sure.

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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 20:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I so have to get my hands on a couple Apistos. I was talking to my boss about it the other day and he said that I am better off trying to get them through the local club rather than him. He also said that they are hardier than Rams. I said cool man! Although I really do like rams too... I guess I will have to set up another tank sometime or change a tank over. I can see some problems occoring later on when I am married...

Oh my boss has gone on colecting trips to SA for discus because he used to breed them. I guess I will have to trust him on this one.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 21:39Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
There is one more thing I would like to share about the Apistos, especially the female. I swear I didn't tinker with the camera settings and the lens is reflecting what I see in the tank.

I had a feeling this morning that she is coloring up and then I checked again this afternoon. She is getting yellow, which - in terms of Apistogramma viejita - means she is getting ready. Wow, that would be almost too fast .

But see for yourself and let me know if I am fooling myself. First sequence is from the evening I got them, so 3 days ago. The middle one is from around 10:30 AM today and the other one is from a few minutes ago, so 7 hours later.

EDIT: It also appears as if the middle part of her caudal fin is growing back in already, nice.

Attached Image:

Do I see Yellow?



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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 00:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I see yellow!

Therefore you should come see my tank!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 01:26Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Not quite egg guarding colors, but getting yellower nonetheless. You'll know when she's getting feisty. Lovely couple LF, good luck with them. Breeding them in your water would be difficult though, I think it's a little hard? Acid Rain told me that the eggs harden if the the water isn't soft enough. A 50/50 RO/Tap combo would probably do the trick. I love apistos and other dwarf cichlids(look around at some nannacara sp.), they make up for their size with outstanding colors.

Can't believe you completely made over the tank again. This is the 4-5th time? Those plants must get tired of moving, I know I would. Looks nice every time, don't let any nitpickers tell you different.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 02:45Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Matty,

Thanks for the input

Yeah, I am getting tired of these major overhauls as well, although I think it is only the second time around that I removed almost all my plants at once.

I think I have actually very soft water, the one time I checked my GH I got a reading of 1dH (same as my tab KH), that is why I add the Seachem Equilibrium after each water change. So maybe there is egg hope in the future, although I am certainly not in a rush with anything. All I really want them to do is to survive happily

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 03:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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No phosphates ? You killed Duckweed, a plant that could survive a nuclear holocaust ? Where was all the "I have got a lot of P in my tap" nonsense we've been listening to for the last 65 pages ????

Fine if you enjoy worrying just don't pull your hair out over it....ooopppps, too late

I have to agree the "execution" of the ANubias planting is not the best. Too flat. Get some rocks and tie/rubber band the Anubias on to crate some shape and a bit of mound. Or a bit of rock pile and use the Anubias to fill in cracks etc. You got fill that area with a real nice feature that would be almost maintenance free. It would make a nice playground for the Apisto's too

I know you have crypts on the left but add more don't wait for the existing ones to fill in. More, more. hat and the Anubias structure would fill out that side of the tank real nice. Very little work to keep looking good.

Those Apisto's have something in common with me - they get better looking with age

The after feeding aggression is normal for lots of fishes. After the initial feeding frenzy is over it's time to collect the scraps, lot's a fish will suddenly get territorial and chase away others to give itself a better chance of getting the scraps before anyone else.

They poke around the plants looking for things like snail eggs , hydra and other little micro-organisms. Great to watch.


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LITTLE_FISH
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Fine if you enjoy worrying just don't pull your hair out over it....ooopppps, too late



Yeah, the loss of Duckweed is a miracle to me. Having kept up my dosing of N even with reduced plant mass, and having more fish (by growth, not number) should mean that N was not a factor. The only nutrient I tinkered with was P and I am rather certain that I did not let that one bottom out but more likely had it between 1 and 2ppm. But given that nothing else changed, that must have been it. Or - I see the Rainbows and Pearls occasionally nibbling on it and during my last overhaul about 5 weeks ago I did reduce the amount of duckweed so that only a handful remained. Maybe, just maybe, the fish ate more than the growth rate of the plant.

I will create a picture of an Anubias mount on the left of the tank later, and then talk about issues I could see with it.

Thanks for the info on the "after feeding" aggression and the poking .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 12:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Tainted Glory
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Wouldn't you know it...I went to work on Sunday and found a tankfull of awesome Rasboras. I took a bunch home. Gotta love how that works! Fish are awesome man, Tom hasn't shut up about them yet! Tank looks good too. Good call on the Apistos.
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Its fun bringing fish home from Local breeders. Tonight I just brought home a BN from this guy that is older than dirts tank. He is thinking of pulling the female because he still has way too many of them in his 90G. I think he brought in about 100 of them and he said he has more where that came from....... Nice healthy fish though.

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Tainted Glory,

So you got some of my Espei, great . How many did you get? Glad to hear that Tom likes my fishies, I guess they sell pretty good then (if not snatched up by all the employees first).

Now you take good care of them as I had a rather hard time letting them go . And give me some updates on them once in a while, will you?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2006 12:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Gang,

I would need all your brain power to help me on the Anubias Mount idea that Bensaf just recently mentioned. It makes perfect sense to me to have the Anubias in that arrangement, but I have quite a few issues with the actual implementation.

The picture below shows a rough sketch of two possible layouts, yellow indicates an independent mount that has its own center, orange starts off low on the left and continually rises to the right to attach to the main Star Grass group. Here are a few thoughts:

- The main issue I believe is the water flow in the tank. The spray bar is on the top left side (horizontally) and the intake sits also on the left side at the back bottom. I am concerned that a mount right in front of the intake would create a rather strong current in that area. I also could see that such a layout would cut off the right side from the water flow completely.
- If this group should become a favorite hangout for Espei (perfect for eggs on the underside of the big Anubias leaves) and Apistos then wouldn't a strong current suck all the fry into the intake?
- Keeping the overall structure in mind, would that create a nice horizon (light blue) for the whole length?

What are your ideas?

Ingo

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Some Options



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Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2006 19:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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Ingo after all the work you just did on the tank, are you sure you're ready to mess with the structure more? If so here's my idea for making the retreat for fry safe from the intake and keeping a nice horizon.
Here
It's in very bright colours but I think it's straight forward.

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Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2006 21:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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If this group should become a favorite hangout for Espei (perfect for eggs on the underside of the big Anubias leaves) and Apistos then wouldn't a strong current suck all the fry into the intake?


Umm, do you want more Espei fry? It's also no guarantee that they'll breed over there, plus this isn't an Espei breeding tank, so i would'nt change the landscape around just to fit their needs.

As for the Apistos, if you want to make things nice for them to breed make a little bit of rock work on the far side of the tank, on the right. They'll seek a rock/ cave structure to lay their eggs on (see Tetra's rams), but that's something you can control. Basically, make 'em an offer they can't refuse. Besides, in order to survive with the pearls and rainbows they'll have to hang out in the undergrowth and not wander too far - by the time they're big enough to safely come out they should be strong enough swimmers


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luvmykrib - Yup, bright colored, but easy to understand . I was almost afraid that someone suggests this "change" as it was an option that I had on my mind but neglected to mention because of the work involved . Actually, I think this would be the best solution for all things considered.

NowherMan6, sure do I want more Espei . Didn't you see the entry above from Tainted Glory? He works at the LFS where I just traded my Espei. Imagine if I could get all future fish on a reduced price based on trade-ins.
And again, as I mentioned to luvmykrib , I thought that this is how it would have to be. Anubias on rocks to the right, doubling up as a breeding ground for Espei and Apistos. That may work.

It might actually not be such a mess to swap the 2 groups. All Amubias are sitting rather lose on the gravel at the left and most plants on the right can be easily pulled (except the Red Rubin Sword, that will be a little messy). At least the gravel does not have a lot of gunk on it as it had been cleaned very well last weekend.

In addition, I will recieve (I believe tomorrow) a plant order of:

Mother plant Green Wendtii
Mother plant Red Wendtii
A Few Stems of Ludwigia arcuata (Needle Leaf)
And for the fun of it - 1 Anubias pynaertii and 1 Anubias afzelii

I guess I will "park" them in the tank until I have more time to plant on the weekend.


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Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2006 22:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I am glad you were also thinking of that suggestion, I didn't want it to come from left field but I think it will look quite nice when it's done.
I recently added the l. arcuata to both my tanks, it's a great plant with small needle leaves, the one in the 10 is shedding leaves as quick as it is growing new ones, but it is still growing and that's what counts, maybe keep it away from the current will help, and the one in the 25 looks great, it is a wonderful contrast to the lager leaves of the crypts and the nana it is beside. Too bad it doesn't come in red, it doesn't does it?
More anubias to fill in the mound? The more the merrier! How will you be able to tell them apart? Little garden tags beside each one? Can't wait to see them. Have you decided which rocks to pile together and how it may look when it's finished?

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Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2006 23:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks luvmykrib for the info on the arcuata. I ordered only 4 and given the prize for it I assume it means 4 stems (I actually wanted to have another type of Ludwigia, but they were out of that one and called me to select a replacement, very nice). With such a small mass to begin with it will take a while before I have a needle forest .

Good idea about the plant tags, I am sure that it is only a question of time until I will have to look at photos on the web to identify which plant is what. Fortunately I am pretty good at adding the names of the plants I have to my profile, so at least I don't have to even search for that.

I have loads of rock of the kind that you see holding down the big branch. I simply assumed that I will go ahead and pile them up somehow, leaving small openings and overhangs for the Apistos and the Espei.

Do I know how it will look in the end? No clue . I think the one thing that stopps me from becoming a good scaper is the fact that I am rather bad at imagening how things will look like when all is said and done .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 00:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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They'll seek a rock/ cave structure to lay their eggs on (see Tetra's rams), but that's something you can control. Basically, make 'em an offer they can't refuse

Yes that's really true the 2 times I did see eggs in my tank from my rams they spawned in two different areas of the tank. First time it was on the surface of a flat rock the 2nd time they spawned on the vertical face of one of the rocks making up the beachfront. So ya never know what they're thinking. Might be a coincedence but the 2nd time they spawned in the front the eggs never made it to fry. The first them I had about 100 fry, but you know the story from there............

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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 00:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks tetratech, certainly an interesting observation. I hope one day I can report back on multiple spawning sites, but until then we have to hope that they make it though.

And tetratech, no comment on the desired Anubias mount? You currently are the man of the perfect layout, I need your advice .

Besides that, I am in love with a girl. Yes, besides my wife and daughter, I have a new girl. The female Apisto has taken my heart by storm. Just look at her development in only 5 days:

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My Love



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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 02:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I can't see any problems with flow etc. Many people use big structures like this hide intakes etc. I know I do.

Take out the Anubias , get a few rocks and put them in and arrange, study, re-arrange 'til you are happy (late August 2012 is my guess ). You are not uprooting anything so it'll be minimal disturbance. If you like you rubber band select Anubias to the rocks, the rest can just be put in cracks or gaps (don't force them in).

I gurantee you'll be happy with the look. It's a very natural vista and it will help highlight and balance the more delicate lines of the driftwood.


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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 03:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Besides that, I am in love with a girl.

I assume your not like ther rest of us poor slobs and you go for personally as well as looks.

Unless you go saltwater it's tough to beat the personally and looks of the dwarf cichlids.

I have to go back again to look at the anubias situation. Remember I only had anubias once and I didn't like the way it looked in my setup.







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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 04:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,

Your fish is looking really nice. She must like you too. Well at least what you have given her.

As for the Anubias mound. Bensaf has already kind of said what to do. Just keep playing with it until you find something that flows for you. This will be easy for you to change and mess around with too. The one thing I would like to add though is to try using fishing line instead of rubber bands. It won't jump out at you as much. Just make sure to not tie it too tight and cut the plant.

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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 05:09Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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you go for personally as well as looks
Yeah, she seems to be very smart, well spoken, and displays great manners at the dinner table

Honestly, I thought these fish may be a little on the shy side first, but when they swim near the front glass they don't move away at all when I touch it. It almost seems as if they would like to come even closer so I can pet them (I think I lost it completely).

Wings - thanks for the info. I have gotten pretty good at tying things down with thread and I think I will stick to that method. And for Apisto food, appetizers are flakes and the main course is some freeze dried tubifex worms.

Speaking of Anubias (), I am currently paying the prize for letting them sit out of the water during the overhaul. As I mentioned before, various leaves did not like the hours in the air and started wo wrinkle up and appreared very dry. Most seemed to have recovered though, but a few are now displaying holes and missing pieces on the edges. Maybe during the creation of the mount I will cut them off, albeit they don't show signs of disintegration, just missing parts.

Speaking of mount etc., anyone has any idea where I would place the two Wendtiis (red/green)? I don't have them yet, but given the prize and description (mother plant) I expect them to be rather large. I for sure think that one will look very nice in the front left corner, but what about the other one? The mount in itself, I think I will first try to have it slope down from right to left so the height evens out with the Star Grass next to it (and I may put the Bacopa - currently all the way on the left - in between Star Grass and mount) going down to the left side. Sounds good? I am asking now as the plants will arrive today and I can see myself not being able to wait until the weekend to redo the scape, I just cannot resist .

Sorry about the long entry,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 15:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Long entries are cool but you better check the thread out about Flourish Excel. (someone is in trouble...)

So you know that you do not do will with Crypts so what do you do... get more of them.... just remember half of being smart is knowing what your bad at and staying away from it.

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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 16:06Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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half of being smart is knowing what your bad at and staying away from it

... and the other 90% of being smart is learning from your mistakes and making it better the next time around .

Crypts are simply to nice to only try once. Although you are right and I had no success with them so far, I still managed to maintain some of them for one year now. They just never turned into anything and all just have a few leaves (new ones come, old ones melt). It may have to do with the fact that I divided the original plant way too early, just a guess.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 16:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
The picture below shows a rough sketch of two possible layouts, yellow indicates an independent mount that has its own center

I'm not following this anubias mound. You do mean mound right, because you keep saying mount (2nd language thing or typo?)

If I follow correctly an anubias mound on one side of the tank. Aren't anubias used scattered around a big tank to fill in between rocks, wood and sometimes other plants for contrast. Can't you make an "anubias playground" in front of the main rock/dw/stargrass area making it dense in the middle front then less dense as you move away from the middle.

If not enough space, you might be able to move the grassy plant in front of the stargrass into two groups that are left and right of the center with the anubias group sort o in the middlefront and blending into it.


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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 17:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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mound - ah yes, that is what I mean, thanks

See, logically for me, a small mountain is a mount and not a mound. So where did the t get replaced with a d? That's the problem with English as a second language.

In front of the Star Grass group may be nice as well, you are right. But the tank is only 18" deep and I would have to build the group over the main flat branch it the front all the way to the glass. I think it will become very crowded there with this approach. Also, the Anubias leaves will lose their contrasting appearance with the overwhelming Star Grass behind it. I will take a closer look at this option tonight.

Otherwise, what do you think about a mound on the left of the Star Grass?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 17:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Otherwise, what do you think about a mound on the left of the Star Grass?

Personally I think it would look good if you did one on the right side as well. I'm not saying everything has to be symmetrical, but in this case I think it would'nt "flow" good to have anubias just on the left.

I think you also need to decide on your corners. You know you could lay those heaters down so you won't see them. You could also buy those hydor inline heaters and it will completely eliminate those two heaters in the tank.

I just think heightening the corners reduces your flexiblity and competes with the center. Unless your gonna build a back of varying height all the way across.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 17:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hay, all these decisions

Unless your gonna build a back of varying height all the way across
That is pretty much what I have, isn't it?

Also, I think you may misunderstand the mound idea. I would like it to be really low on the way way left, rising towards the Star Grass. I could even go so far as leaving a few inches open all the way at the left and all the way to the back.
if you did one on the right side as well
Hm, sounds nice, but the downside would be that there will be not much space left for any other type of plant.
buy those hydor inline heaters and it will completely eliminate those two heaters in the tank
I actually have currently 3 heaters in the tank, two stealth at 200W each on the left and one regular with 300W on the right. If I am not mistaken then the Hydor have a max capacity of 300W. I would have to have a few in line (or parallel) and I don't know how feasible that would be.

Too many thoughts, "overload - Will Robinson"

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 18:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well, when I look at your tank right now, I see mostly high center and high corners.

I think I understand the mound, but I guess I would have to see it with anubias only in one location. If it's a tank in itself with an anubias mound that of course we have seen.

Your right about the heater. I bet you don't even need the 300 watt visi-therm. I have one 250 watt stealth and I have absolutely no fluctation and I just went through a New York Winter. Actually if the mild winters keep up I'll have to get a chiller. You know they sell these regulators inline that chill and heat? I think you could fit a 6-pack in there as well.

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Too many thoughts, "overload - Will Robinson"

So just to prove that I have some sort of reading issue. I read Will Robinson as Robin Williams.

Inline heaters? Sounds really sweet. tetratech. post a link!

I guess it is hard to see what you have in mind for the Anubias. Can't wait to see whats in your head.




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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 00:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Welcome to neurosis central folks ! Pull up a chair and grab a Prozac

Anubias are very very versatile. They can be used to fill gaps , make backgrounds, mounds etc.

Remember too that LF has some of the taller bigger varieties. It doesn't have to be a mound - it can be a peak if you want. Whatever rocks your boat. But whatever it is it can only look better then laying flat on the substrate, a waste of plant and space IMHO

Tetra didn't like the look of Anubias in his tank becasue he chopped it up into little bits and spread it around the tank in really odd places Thankfully he has learned to aquascape since then

Something has to be done with the left section it's a barren wasteland compared to the rest of the tank.

Ingo,
With the crypts if they fit I would put them altogether. I've mentioned before crypts always seem to do better when planted in groups. Individual plants always seem to be a bit wimpy.

A 6 footer is not easy to 'scape. I'm guessing that the best way to approach is take a small section perfect that and then see what will work best to flow away from there. Basically work your way from one side to the other.

I think the pile of rock with Anubias fronted by a thick grove of crypts would be real nice, simple but effective. The tall species like the Congensis are particularly suitable for this approach. It'll be darker there but that will offset the brighter stargrass even better.

How long is it going to take to temporarily rubber band a few Anubias to rocks and put in the tank and play around with it ? Stop pulling the last two hairs on your head out and get your hands wet


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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 03:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra didn't like the look of Anubias in his tank becasue he chopped it up into little bits and spread it around the tank in really odd places

If the plant can't stand being chopped up and put in strange places and positions then "GET OUT OF MY TANK"

It's funny I originally got that anubias for my 12gallon and it didn't make the cut in their either.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 04:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Gang,

Thanks so much for your input, but anything that came after Noon yesterday has not been read until all was planted . As such, the tank is yet again a product of my skewed visions of what may look good.

But first things first, the plants were already at home when I arrived, not too bad for having ordered them just the day before. Well, upon opening the package I was a little in shock. The order was a bit larger than expected, in particular the Wendtiis were huge and the Anubias pynaertii has a hight of about 18 inches. Also, I got 3 Anubias afzelii (ordered one) and 6 bunches of Needle leaf Ludwigia with 8 stems each. I think by now I can recommend this source of plants, I believe tetratech uses them as well - aquariumplants.com.

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New Plants have Arrived



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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 12:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Next I had to wash them all. This took quite a while because the Wendtiis turned out to be multiple plants (5 green and 3 red), each encased with this nasty growing wool .

After cleaning I placed them all in the tank to avoid drying out (as happened last weekend to some of my Anubias) while I ripped out my last two hairs wondering what to do now (where is the smiley simboizing a bald guy? ). The big mount idea was gone very soon as I determined that it would take loads of rock to create any significant height (played with the rocks I have on the coffee table).

BTW, I was reading about Floating Meadows in TFH and somehow this arrangement just looks like one. The younger Espei really like zooming through these floating plants. Maybe there is an idea for the future or another hobbyist.

Attached Image:

Plants parked



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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 12:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Then it was time to take action, and boy it was almost another major overhaul yet again . First I removed all plants from the far right, except the Alternanthera. Here I added all 5 Green Wendtii in the midground and some pearl grass in front of it. Gaps were filled with Helferi and Retrospiralis remains.

Next it was the Pearl Grass valley's turn, out with all the plants. I placed some Helferi in the way back and a rock with the Congensis at the right of the valley. In front of that rock I tied my 2 mystery Anubias and my 3 new Afzelii to the rock that holds down the wood on the right. In the gap I placed one of the red Wendtii and another one in front of the Star Grass.

On to the left side. All Anubias Barterii and Nana out of the tank and back in, closer to the Star Grass group, with the new Peruensis in the back (tied to a small rock as it had insufficient roots to be stuck into the gravel). A Helferi and 2 smaller Retrospiralis are added for contrast. Then I regrouped my existing crypt plants (small Wendtiis, Lucens, Lutea) in front of it, the narrow leaf and needle leaf Ludwigias to the left, and one new red Wendtii in front of that group. Last but not least I filled gaps with small plants, mostly Pearl Grass.

So, 3 hours later- here is the result:

Attached Image:

New Tank Layout



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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 12:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Then it was time to close shop as I got tired and it was almost time for lights out in the tank. I fed the fish (they can also be seen eating on top in the full shot) and just enough time for one more picture from the right half of the tank, an attempt to show more detail. Then the lights went out in the tank and it was time to say good night.

Overall, as usual, I am not too excited with the results, but I am not disappointed either. The least I get out of this is a larger plant mass

Attached Image:

Right Half



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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 12:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
LF,

Pretty good work my friend. I like it. Did you about poo your pants after finding plants that look as large as house plants to go in your tank?

The one thing I sugest to you is move the grassy plants on the left closer to the center.

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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 14:29Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
LF,
I think you did a fine job placing the anubias in and around the wooded area in the center and spreading it out.
Have you considered adding some more rock work to the left and right of the center to hide some stems and give it more depth and take out the flatness. Nothing overpowering just accents, but it will give it more visual interest and blend it with the center.


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...after finding plants that look as large as house plants to go in your tank?
I have to confess that I have never seen (in person) Wendtii this tall and full. This is a whole other plant than the tiny pieces that I have, and ever had. I knew I was getting a larger plant (mother) and as such the size did not really surprise me, but what did was the number of these plants (1 mother red = 3 large red, 1 mother green = 5 large green). In the end I am actually rather happy with their placement, for the time being , grouping all green was a good idea, but having the even larger red ones spread out seems to work as well as they connect the individual broad leaved Anubias groupings.
Have you considered adding some more rock work to the left and right of the center to hide some stems and give it more depth and take out the flatness
I truely ran out of time . I can't see any stems on the right, and on the left I only see the roots of the Anubias as they are not buried but places losely on top of the gravel, held down by the gravel that attached itself to their roots when they were submersed. I would have loved to try rockwork on the left, but time was short and the old man got tired .

I am currently waiting for Bensaf's report on the Ground Crew and that is one reason why I don't want to plant all the way to the front anymore. Other reasons are that it is easier to clean and that if intself generated more depth.

Thanks for the comments to both of you, as always it is very much appreciated,

Ingo


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Now them are some Crypts. Love them.

I have to agree with tetra - I think you dd a fine job in planting them. Perfect. Is it just me or does the whole scape look more solid ? That's what I was trying to get at. You now have an anchor you can build around.

I was think the very same thing as tetra (fools seldom differ ? ). A few rocks between the Anubias and Crypts on the left, just accents maybe layer the Anubias just a tiny bit.

Great job.


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Great job


Come on, you just want me to agree with you on your upcoming Ground Crew report .

Actually, the fact that I was not happy with the design but not horribly upset either indicated to me that it was pretty ok. I agree, the scape looks more solid and this is in most part due to the stretch of larger leaves all across the tank's width (I believe).

I hear both of you on the rocks. One also has to keep in mind that the Ludwigia family on the way left behind the large red Wendtii will grow significantly higher. So maybe the best way to include rocks in the Anubias section would be a U shaped layout where the left side guides down from the higher Ludwigia and the right side guides up to the higher Star Grass.

Thanks Bensaf,

Ingo


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tetratech
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My money is on ground crew. I'll be making a post later on this very subject. Just need to prepare some pics.

A white paper on grounds crew dynamics. Oh this is gonna be good.

My Scapes
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LITTLE_FISH
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It is already out there tetratech (and all others),

Here is the link to it. It may explain why your substrate is so clean.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 17:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I finished off the tank last night and tried to rearrange the Anubias on the left with the help of some rock. After playing for about an hour, rocks in - Anubias on top - Anubias back off - rocks rearrange - and so forth, I decided on having only one rock on the way right of this group. That elevated the Anubias there and has the group sloping down to the left.

Then I added a little more Pearl Grass and my 5 Nana Petite that were still sitting in a bucket with water, and called it a night. Enough is enough

Here is the tank:

Attached Image:

Full Tank



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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2006 11:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is now a picture just of the left side. I hope that the arrangement is even remotely what you had in mind when suggesting the addition of rocks.

BTW, not one Anubias in this group needed to be tied on as all have gravel on their roots that pulls them down. This made it a little easier.

Attached Image:

Left Tank Side



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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2006 12:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And here is a close-up of my main log. As covered in algae as it is, it also has some beauty to it. If I could be sure that existing algae is not an invitation to disaster then I wouldn't mind this particular algae in only this area at all.

I think it makes it look very natural

Attached Image:

Algae Log



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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2006 12:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And last, here is the middle section of the tank that (I hope) brings the sides together. I added a little more Pearl Grass in some spots and placed the Nana Petite in front of the log.

Could be a nice tank in itself.

Attached Image:

Center Area



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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2006 12:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
I think you are on the right track with the Anubius but I think you need to make it larger. Maybe have it be more of a rounded structure.

I like the looks of the algae on the front log too! Natural looking. In the discus tank at work there is aglae growing on top of a peice of DW that actually looks pretty good. It has been there ever since I have started (about 7 months ago). When I started using Excel it started to go away but not that I am running CO2 on this tank its coming back. It is the only place in the tank that has it so I am not freaking out. Yet...

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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2006 14:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Man, I've been gone for awhile now. This is a very nice set-up (and the longest thread I've ever seen). One of these days things will slow down enough to where I can begin to get back into the hobby like this. Good work.

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Keith,

Thanks for the input. I am flattered to have someone who hasn't been on FP for a while add his first entry into my log - and on top of it has something positive to say about my tank.

Thank you very much,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2006 17:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dan76
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be mindful of the future my young padawain, ()


kill the algea now or end up with a tank that looks like mine

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Post InfoPosted 25-Mar-2006 09:17Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
I too had a piece of driftwood in my tank. It became
"encrusted" with hair algae and really looked beautiful
as the long hairs swayed in the currents. But, alas,
all was not well, and the "hairs" broke off and gathered
elsewhere on my plants, and soon the whole tank was
swaying in the currents. It took forever, and the removing
of the dirftwood for me to resolve the problem.
Frank


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Post InfoPosted 25-Mar-2006 18:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Rob1619
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Looking really nice..love the drifwood

Robby



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Post InfoPosted 25-Mar-2006 21:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tanks to all 3 of you for the input and information regarding algae on the driftwood.

I did my water change today (photos and details will follow tomorrow) and used that chance to scrape off some of the algae. Not all is gone though, I may need a few sessions to get rid of it. This also gives me the chance to see if it spreads again.

A slightly troublesome development happened today in the QT. After the water change in that tank I noticed that one of the platies was breathing really hard. On closer observation it seemed that the fish was not able to close its mouth anymore at all. Also, some slight swelling up of the fish was noticable, like the beginning of dropsy.

It happened to be one of my original females that were added 7 months ago, I am rather certain that she must have been at least 1 year old because she was fully grown when I got her and had babies right away. I had to let her go .

I will keep an eye on the situation, all others are doing just fine. My concern, besides that there is a chance of an illness, is that the young adult male will terrorize the remaining females. He was already a pushy little punk before, but now there are less females for him to herass. If he gets out of control (and there is no sign of further illness) then I will move him into the 29G, here he has to stand his man in a crowd of larger Sunset males, they are going to show him his rightful place .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 00:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 26

The last week was rather boring, besides 2 events that are worthwile to be noted.

1) A new plant order came in on Wednesday and has been added to the tank, some re-arranging was required in the attempt to create some flow.

2) A side-discussion with Bensaf in another thread revealed that my addition of Seachem Equilibrium is rather insignificant. I forgot to read the instructions and basically added only enough to raise the GH by 0.17 dH . I measured my GH yesterday in the morning and I have to say that it was not easy to interpret the test kit. It seems I am having maybe 2 to 3 dGH, which in itself would be fine. After the water change I added double the usual amount of Equilibrium, I figure it cannot harm and I will see if things improve.

The replant from last weekend (major) is still having an impact on the tank. The fool that I am I forgot to suberse the Anubias for hours and I am still losing one or the other leaf. Even worse, my 10 minute bleach dip turned almost all Helferi leaves brownish. I assume I will have to remove them soon.

This week I am showing a series of pictures to demonstrate the change the tank underwent of the last 26 weeks. First, the tank when it was just set up:

Attached Image:

After Initial Setup - 26 Weeks ago



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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 13:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is the tank 6 weeks later, in the meantime it underwent a Weed-Treatment to generate as much plant mass as possible in the shortest period possible to establish the tank quickly. Now the first attempts to scape have begun:

Attached Image:

Week 6



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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 13:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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By week 17 the tank had grown into a jungle and it became almost impossible to maintain it at that stage. Plants were shading each other, the substrate couldn't be reached anywhere anymore (except for the areasin which the Glosso had been removed because it killed itself by being 5 layers deep).

In other words, a change was needed soon:

Attached Image:

Week 17



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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 13:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And onl 2 weeks later the tank underwent its largerst overhaul to date, all but one plant had been removed and replanted, or simply thrown away. A major piece of driftwood was added in an attempt to improve on the scape, I think it was a good move although, once done, the tank still wasn't all that great.

Attached Image:

Week 19



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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 13:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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The tank started to show major algae (thread) issues after this replant and the fact that I lost the CO2 for about a week while being on vacation made the situation even worse. Something needed to be done and I, once again, removed almost all plants and restyled the arrangement. Only the plants that had not too much thread algae on them were added back in, others were trimmed or discarded.

This left me with the lowest plant mass in a long time.

Attached Image:

Week 25



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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 14:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And, as described in the update post above, I decided to add more plants for 2 main rasons:

- Mass
- Flow (design)

So far I find the layout pretty nice. Yes, there is room for improvement, but not right now. And if you compare the Star Grass in the last 2 pictures you will see that growth is good, in particular when I add that I had to trim about 4 inches of the top.

Attached Image:

This Weekend - Week 26



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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 14:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here are just a few detail shots nothing much.

The first one is of the arranged - and rearranged - Anubias group on the left half of the tank. As you can see, it slopes downward from the Star Grass to the Needle Leaf Ludwigia. I may play with this group in the future, but for now I will leave it alone.

Attached Image:

Anubias Group



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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 14:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is a shot of my Nana Petite arrangement, not to creative, lined up in front of the main driftwood. I had a hard time trying to tie them to rocks and decided that for the time being they should be buried in the substrate. Don't worry, the rhizome is not buried.

I am very curious as to what these little buggers will turn into. Actually, I read somewhere that over time Nana Petites will start to develop larger leaves again as the dwarf gene is not persistent. Any info on that?

Attached Image:

Anubias Nana Petite



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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 14:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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One of the residents in the tank that is thriving on my algae supply. While I don't see them eat the longer threads, they for sure nibble on the young growth right next to it. I haven't been able to account for them all in at least 2 weeks, but I am sure that most of them are doing well.

Uh, this reminds me, maybe it is time now for some Amano Shrimp, what do you think?

Attached Image:

Oto



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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 14:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And last but not least, the newcomers

It will be a few weeks (maybe 3 more) before I will add them, but they arereally beautiful. I guess I didn't do enough research before I purchased them as I basically accepted the fact that will have a dull female in my tank and the male's color will balance this out. I find her coloration just as attractive as his, and she is a feisty little fish.

And that's it for now,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Apisto viejita II - Pair



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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 14:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
LF,
The board is quiet today,
Anyway what happened to this layout. I really liked the way you spread the anubias around. It appears to have changed with the new additions.

Still looks nice. I like the Nana Petite arrangement in front of the driftwood.

I have to ask this. What have you changed that you think will help with the algae situation this time around? More co2, anything else?

As far as shrimp go, make sure that the dwarf cichlids won't eat them. I thought I read somewhere that certain species might.

Attached Image:


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 19:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

Thanks for the input. To answer some of your questions:

- The Anubias are exactly were they were in the picture you showed, except that the group on the left is sloped and a few of the crypts in front of it (lucens and lutea) have been moved a little.
- To avoid algae I will keep my CO2 crancked up and the ferts as well.
- Thanks for the info on the shrimp. It was a thought that crossed my mind, but I thought that if they are ok with your Bolivians then they should be fine with the smaller Apistos as well. Guess that may not be true.

The only thing I did yesterday was to remove 3 male Platies from the QT. Nasty little buggers. I observed them chasing after the Apistos and attempting to nip their fins, even the male's . Off they went to the 29G. The rest of the day was pretty much commited to resting, as I got a cold

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 13:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Glad the anubias are still there, cause it looked nice.

Never saw the bolivans go after the shrimp, but you never know. It would be an expensive snack for those fish.

Do me a favor and put a lot of java moss in your tank so some apistos fry will survive and you could send some to live with Uncle Tetra

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 15:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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...you could send some to live with Uncle Tetra
Well, Uncle Tetra

Will do, but first they would have to breed for me, and then I would have to overcome the same hurdle than you with your Bolivians - how to manage to feed the fry. Time will tell.

Yeah, $5 per piece for a snack is rather expensive, I don't think I am willing to treat my Apstos that well. Ok, maybe for their birthday .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 16:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I've added a total of 8 shrimp to my tank since I started it.

3 Amanos/Yamatos
3 Ghosts
2 Cherries

The only ones I see right now on a regular basis are the Yamatos. I haven't seen a ghost shrimp in about a month so who knows. 1 Cherrie I removed to another tank and the other hasn't been spotted since I put them in. So there fate could have been old age, no3 levels or the became a meal.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 19:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetra, have you ever seen your schooling fish pick on the shrimp, like the pencils or the cardinals?


Back in the saddle!
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tetra, have you ever seen your schooling fish pick on the shrimp, like the pencils or the cardinals

I did see the cardinals go after a very small cherry shrimp, but they never made contact and might have thought it was a piece of food at first.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 21:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Excellent Good to hear...


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K, means no shrimpsters for me then, I guess.

Sad news, unexpectetedly I had to put one of my female Rainbows down. This is the first loss in the tank ever since the Otos were added months ago (and some didn't make it, as expected).

I came down to the tank this afternoon (sick-have a cold or something) and saw her swimming on the surface. Whenever she hit the current of the spraybar she was swirled around in it, showing that she has no strength anymore. Also, what first appeared as nicer than usual coloration turned out to be scales sticking out - dropsy.

I have no idea what the reason is, there are two thoughts (actually 3 - I describe the third later)

- replanting during the last week was stressful on her
- I cleaned the filter and on restart a lot of gunk was washed from the hose into the water. Maybe it is bad for fish and she ate it.

Third thought: She looked different from the time I got her. While the other 2 have a straight line from the mouth to the dorsal fin, she had a bend in it. Maybe she was misformed and as such couldn't function properly. I never thought much of it, until now. In the picture (not new) below she is on top and another female below. Any info?

Attached Image:

The top one died



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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 23:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,

Sorry to hear about your DNR. I about lost one of mine last week. I had the lid off doing some work on the tank and one decided that it was a good idea to jump out at me. So I grab it and throw it back in only to have it jump out on the back side of the tank. Not good! Lucky it didn't land in the tank below. It would have become a snack. I had to move my book case to get to the thing but it seemed to be doing find a couple of days later.

As for what happened to yours I am not going to get into it because I am really bad at that stuff. So I will leave it at sorry.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 01:48Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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- replanting during the last week was stressful on her
- I cleaned the filter and on restart a lot of gunk was washed from the hose into the water. Maybe it is bad for fish and she ate it.


I doubt it was anything you did, like the two things above. If these things did kill the fish then it was on it's way out anyway. Not my area of expertise, but the fish does look deformed, which is not that uncommon with any animal that reproduces in large numbers. Most deformed/mutated individuals don't survive as long as normal specimans, unless it's to it's advantage, but we don't need to get into the whole Darwin thing.

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tetra,

Thats the one of the few Darwinian things I don't mind so much

LF,

Ater looking at your picture again. The top fish kind of looks like a he/she. It has the more pointy nose of a male and the color of a female. Maybe that was its cause of stress.

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Thanks tetratech and Wings for the input.

I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks that the shape of that fish was a little off, and Wings I had the same thought about the he/she thing, but I don't know if this is possible. I know that there are species with "males in hiding" that only show their true colors when they feel strong enough to compete with the other males (or alpha male), but I don't know it Rainbows are within that group. And even if so this should not have been a health issue then as it would be natural. I don't know.

Let's just hope that this is the last death for a while, nothing is more depressing in ones tank than fish death.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 12:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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OK GANG, I need some Apstio Advice

It all started yesterday when I was going to feed the fish in the QT. Usually, tapping the food container on the glass brings them all together to the front, even the Apistos have learned that by now. But, no sign of the female. I looked (just looked, not rearranged) all over the tank and started to feed when she appeared, I don't know from where. She is more beautiful than ever and has an orange included in her yellow coat now. Then, after an appetizer of flakes, I went back to get the freeze dried Tubifex worms, and again she was not to be found . She came then out from behind one of the pieces of driftwood and after eating some worms dissapeared to that area again. I lurked around the side of the tank and saw her hush into a little cave in the wood.

The same happened ever since yesterday, whenever I approach the tank she cannot be seen, but she comes out to feed and then goes back there. The male is his usual, no changes at all. I removed the backcover, but my head is too big to fit in the gap between tank and wall. I used a small mirrow and a flashlight. I held the mirror in the tank and used the flashlight to see what is going on back there - Too deep of a cave and too dark.

Do I have eggs back there for sure? She is not in hiding because of stress as she looks sooooo good right now. I cannot go out and buy liquid fry food just based on assumption as I wouldn't know how much and when to feed.

Any ideas what is going on and what to do?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 02:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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She might have eggs back there but cichlids can be wierd sometimes. My baby convicts either beg for food at the top of the tank or hide like they have never seen a big hairy faced balding stressed out soon to be married college kid before. The parents are the same way. Sometimes very personable others they act like they have never seen you before.

I wouldn't worry about feeding the fry right away if that is the case. They can normally fend for themselves really well for a while just on left over egg sack. If you do see some fry it might be worth getting some frozen baby brine shrimp to feed them though. My baby convits grew much faster than normal when I was feeding them that.

How is the male looking? No extra color or anything? Agression?

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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 04:10Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Wings,
How is the male looking? No extra color or anything? Agression?
Fine, No, No.

This are the quick answers to your questions . This is what throws me off, as I would have assumed him to be more aggressive with eggs around. On the other hand, I read that it is the female that protects the edds/fry and the male is in charge of territory (which by the way is supposed to be larger than the 20G QT).

I will have to keep an eye open for any tiny fish that may stick its head out of the wood cave at some point. If they stay in the back of the cave then there is no way for me to tell.

Anyone has any idea of how long the incubation time for Apisto Eggs is?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 11:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Anyone has any idea of how long the incubation time for Apisto Eggs is?

It's probably a few days, before they become wigglers. As someone mentioned they probably wouldn't need food for at least a few days after they hatch because they have the yolk sacs. Funny thing is my two rams have disappeared over the last few days, but there is so much density in the tank I'll probably never find the eggs and I can't go behind mine.

When my rams spawned the first time they laid the eggs on a piece of petrified wood and then they dug a borrow in the substrate and moved the egg/wigglers in there?





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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 14:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,

No experience with apistos, but that sounds like pretty standard dwarf cichlid breeding behavior. There's no other reason for her to not come out and beg for food. They may eat the first batch themselves, it may take them a while to "Get it" I wouldn't go crazy about this batch... but I guess this is why when people breed them intentionally they just tanks without a lot of clutter so you can actually see and feed the fry etc.


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Thanks you two for the input

Yeah, I guess there is not much I can do than wait and see what will happen, but you know how it is.

I nearly broke my neck yesterday when trying to get a closer look into the cave .

Guess I will have to get the goggles out and take a head dive into the tank. I wonder what the fish would think about that .

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 15:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I would get with tetra before you take your dive! He has the head gear you need!

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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 15:23Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Someone call for the Fishgeek



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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 15:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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LF,

By the way, was the LFS you sold the espei to AF? I saw some very VERY healthy looking "tank raised" rasbora espei the other day...


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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 21:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yup NowherMan6,

That may have been mine

Did ya buy any?

And tetratech - we (NowherMan6 and I) cannot afford such a sophisticated head-stander to do our dive chores .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 22:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And tetratech - we (NowherMan6 and I) cannot afford such a sophisticated head-stander to do our dive chores

Yeah, I'm usually hired for only really big tanks:



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I about choked on my food!

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Post InfoPosted 30-Mar-2006 00:04Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Caption for this photo:

"While everyone else enjoyed a pleasant lunch, tetratech proceeded to stare off into the distance, snapping back into consciousness only to drink his saki through his special blue Fish Geek straw."


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Post InfoPosted 30-Mar-2006 00:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Feels like the good old days are back.

But you know, he was really there, he even visited the ADA site.

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Tetratech at ADA



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What is the ADA? It looks sweet!

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Post InfoPosted 30-Mar-2006 03:50Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wow, now that you mention it LF, he seems to be popping up all over the place. Why, this evening I was looking through an old history textbook and I came across a picture with a familiar looking guy in it...

Wait, wait... oh my... is that... yes, yes it is! Tetra that's you! I didn't know you were one of Teddy Roosevelt's rough riders!!



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Post InfoPosted 30-Mar-2006 04:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The caption to that picture read:

"Teddy Roosevelt's Rough Riders were also the first Unit to train in modern warfare, although Corporal Tetratech's goggles and snorkel didn't proof effective agains chemical agents, even when wearing them 24/7"


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Post InfoPosted 30-Mar-2006 11:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Man this is cracking me up, made my day.

Of course I couldn't resist

Caption ? -

"Darn, how does he get that Wallichii so pink?"



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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 30-Mar-2006 14:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah, I don't know if tetratech anticipated this when he started this section.

But he is looking pretty good for someone who seems to stick his head all the time in everybodies business, eh - tank.

Ingo


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OK, last one, I promise...

"LF introduces his new fish, the Dwarf Neon Tetratech"



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Post InfoPosted 30-Mar-2006 15:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Sadly it all came to end today for tetratech. After pursuing him for days, tetratech was arrested. The charges included breaking into Amano's house, stealing from ADA, impersonator a rough rider and wallichii abuse.
They are still looking for his accomplish LF, for his part in the dwarf neon tetratech fish scandal.





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Nice way to end it tetra! The funny part about that picture is the guy holding the vidio cammera. What kind of poilic training does that take? 1 dounut... 2 dounut aht aht ahh..

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Post InfoPosted 30-Mar-2006 18:49Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ah, that was fun

Let's just hope tetratech will be released again soon

On the actual tank frontier:

Nothing much happened, it may be that a little algae growth can be observed, but not too much so far.

The female Apstio is still doing her hiding thing, but I just cannot peek into that cave.

We will see,

Ingo


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LF,

Do you have a close-up pic of the algae in question?


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Not here, but it is basically more of the same than the one that eventually caused me to do the last major overhaul.

Small threads on plant leaves and the glass, none longer than maybe 1/2 an inch. And not too many yet.

It could be that I haven't really corrected the issue that I had - I upped the P dosage to 1/2tsp every other day as it must have been too low for a while.
It also could be that the attempt I made to scrub off existing algae from glass and wood caused it to settle somewhere else.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Mar-2006 21:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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They let me go as long as I never say anything bad about Petland Discounts again - yeah right

Anyway sorry to hear about the algae problems. Those protists are tough little hombres. Afterall they've been around for quite some time.

What's interesting is that I have my own little war with some BBA. It's actually growing on the inside of the glass diffusor right where the bubbles come out and my co2 is cranked. I also see some bba on the rar right back glass which is far away from dissusor, so I don't see the low co2 relationship in my tank anyway, it's just not that simple, not black and white.



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Week 27 - Weekly Tank Update

This week the tank made me very frustrated. The algae is most certainly growing back, although I have upped the P now for 2 weeks straight to 1/2tsp 3 x a week and the Equilibrium to 1tsp per week. All other parameters stayed the same so I feel like I am at the end of my ideas. Makes me wonder if I should order a bunch of low light plants, shut off the second light row and the CO2, and live in peace from here on.

I ordered 4 diffusers, 2 3-coil and 2 8-coil, they should be here Tuesday and I will hook up one 8-coil under the spraybar, maybe that will help. Nevertheless, the problem that remains is the removal of existing algae which I cannot achieve by removing the hardware as I do not want to have another major overhaul at this time.

The plant order from last week is not doing too well, the crypts - as expected - show some melting, all stems of the Needle Leaf Ludgwigia rotted away and I had to remove all of them. My Star Grass on the other hand grows like mad and I had to remove the whole bunch and replant the tops.

Here is a picture from yesterday before the trimming:

Attached Image:

Week 27 - Before Trimming



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And here is a picture after the trimming and water change. Nothing else has change from the previous picture, except that I removed the dead stems of Needle Leaf Lugwigia:

Attached Image:

Week 27 - After Water Change and Trimming



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Post InfoPosted 02-Apr-2006 13:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Algae anyone?

The small group of crypts (pictured is a Wendtii), Wendtii, Lucens, and Lutea all look like this. They are located to the left of the big piece of wood, with the water flowing from right to left in that part of the tank. It may have gotten so bad because I tried to scrubb of some algae last week and the water flow blew it onto these plants. Or, it got it because the plants were moved and are unstable now.

But this is not the only plant, I see an increased on all my Anubias plants and the remaining Retrospiralis.

Attached Image:

Darn Algae



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Post InfoPosted 02-Apr-2006 13:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Fortunately,

There are still these guys here, although the female is not protecting her little cave anymore (false alarm or failure).

Here is the male parading the tank:

Attached Image:

Apisto viejita male



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Post InfoPosted 02-Apr-2006 13:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And my beloved female. She sure has nice colors, I love the contrast of her basically yellow bodie and the black markings. The occasional red and blue sprinkle looks very nice as well.

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Apisto viejita female



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Post InfoPosted 02-Apr-2006 13:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And because it is so nice, here a picture of the happy couple. When they "meet" in the tank there is always some "spine twisting" mutual attention thing going on. All fins are stretched out and the fish circle each other once or twice with bent backs. Then they swim off in different directions to keep on looking for food:

Attached Image:

Apisto viejita couple



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Post InfoPosted 02-Apr-2006 13:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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First thing I could say is that I'm glad you got those fish to take your mind off the algae. I guess there cheaper than taking another vacation.

Anyway, as the song says "where do we go from here".
Question?
Is the algae more prolific than it was before you reduced all that mass and added the driftwood? If the answer is yes than at least there is some cause and effect. Looking at your tank now I don't see alot of fast growing fert sucking plants other than the stargrass? In my tank I get alittle bba on the blyxa because it really doesn't grow all that much in the light I have.

I don't think your issue is with fert dosing. Your not doing anything that much different than Bensaf and me.


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I'm glad you got those fish to take your mind off the algae
And on top of this they are still in the QT, so I don't even have to look at the algae tank to see them

Thanks tetratech, I needed some encouragement. Yeah, the whole algae mess started after I added the driftwood, at least this form of algae. And you are absolutely right, I have only very few fast growing plants, there is the larger group of Star Grass and the groupings of Pearl Grass. I thought that the tank was at a stage where it doesn't require that many fast growers anymore, but either because of the major changes or because this phase would come much later (if ever) I am not there yet.

But what can I do? I am honestly sick of spending 8 hours to redo the tank every few weeks. I am getting seriously fed up with it. If EI works only if I have fast growers in there, what good is it for?

Ingo


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How much light are you running? How long? Maybe you should play the game of low light all day and a high light for only a couple of hours.



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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 00:49Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
But what can I do? I am honestly sick of spending 8 hours to redo the tank every few weeks. I am getting seriously fed up with it.

Personally I think that's part of your problem right there ! Too much changing and uprooting. As tetra said you are doing pretty much the same as us except for one thing, we rarely make big changes to our tanks. Add or remove a plant here and there but no major overhauls.


If EI works only if I have fast growers in there, what good is it for?

No it'll work for slow growers too. A couple of fast ones are a good check valve. But besides that I don't see the connection between fast growers and having to do big overhauls.
The fast growers just need to be trimmed, nothing major there. If they need to be uprooted for the trim , just vac around that area to remove anything that may have been kicked up and replant. No biggie.

But on more then one occasion you have pulled up every plant in the tank. I never never do that to a tank unless I'm tearing it down. If I want to make that big a change I do it gradually, pretty much move one group at a time. Takes longer to get the look you want but less problems in the long run.





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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 03:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dan76
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i agree with bensaf, slow and steady wins the race. in my tank with the BBA i have nearly all off the plants and only the back and side walls to go. just keep getting rid of the badly affected leaves and you will eventually win

OH TOLEEDY!
Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 08:16Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
But on more then one occasion you have pulled up every plant in the tank
Well, I always left one group (at least) in its position

No, but seriously: If I ever wanted to have driftwood in the tank than the first major overhaul was the only way to do it. I don't think you would believe that this could have been achieved by removing only one plant at a time. And the second major overhaul was needed to add more plant mass. And that is it, I haven't done more than these 2 overhauls (although I feel like I am doing them on a weekly basis).

Thanks for the advice on "making slow changes", I will try to keep that in mind for the future. There is one thing that makes following this advice rather costly though: Almost all plants for my tank are ordered over the web (not the best local resources) and if I add only one plant at a time then I will have to pay loads of shipping until I have a new assortment.

Maybe it's time to add some Wisteria from the 20G QT to my tank.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 10:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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LF,

Double dog dare you to join the wisteria club! The question is will you grow tall or lay low?

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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 12:59Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Too much changing and uprooting


LF, for what it's worth, I believe I'm in the same boat. My algae problems started after doing major overhauls, and they certainly seem to get worse after doing major overhauls... slowing down after several water changes etc. I'm right there with ya, lookin for the answer


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EditedEdited by tetratech
You guys are going to make me quote one of my favorite movies again "small moves, ellie, small moves"

I think Bensaf is probably on to something with the "extreme makeover" planted tank edition. I'm also wondering if the substrate has anything to do with it.
Is the lava-rock based eco complete a better bio-filter than a gravel/laterite mix. Lava rock is used in filters as a bio media.

What I'm getting at is the ability of the tank to decompose waste making it unavailable to algae through plant suck up and bio-filteration.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 14:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Well it's more to do with stirring up mulm and NH4 from a mature substrate. Both are lovely algae treats

Plus the plants stall for a bit after a big move.

If you need to order lots of plants - stick them wherever there's space and then gradually move things/replace to the position you like.


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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 14:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well it's more to do with stirring up mulm and NH4 from a mature substrate. Both are lovely algae treats
.

Yes, but does the amount of biofileration in the substrate neutralize this algae treat. The "honeymoon" phase of the hobby is long gone, why not pack the tank (And I mean pack, densily plant wisteria, hygro, etc and see if it makes a difference and slowly remove them "small moves" over time until you have the look you want.

By the way whatever happened to Chaos Maximus?

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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 15:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Tetra, that's actually what I've been doing, pretty much letting the wisteria take over for a while. I wasn't able to do WCs last week because of the gourami eggs (by the way, the plant mass that the eggs were laid in got moved around by the current the other day and the bubblenest was destroyed. sad sight, but at least it let me do a water change) but I plan on doing a couple this week to pick up the excess mulm stirred up in the make-overs. As I said, i think LF and I are suffering from the same thing, because I know my EI routine is basically the same as yours, with lower numbers for the smaller tank.

and BTW, I sent Chaos a PM about 2 weeks ago and never got anything back


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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 15:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I guess I will take out the pruning scissors then tonight and clip off some Wisteria from the 20G and add it to the big tank.

Also, my Alternanthera is getting too tall. I would assume that I simply can cut off the top and replant it (did that before) and leave the bottom part of the stem in to sprout again. What I don't know is if there is a rule (advice) as to the percentile to cut off, like 2/3 down the stem or something.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 16:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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guess I will take out the pruning scissors then tonight and clip off some Wisteria

Ya know things can get kinda boring if everyone has all this wisteria in their tanks.

If anyone wants to order L.I. Wisteria and/or Willow Branches I'm selling.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 19:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Ya know things can get kinda boring if everyone has all this wisteria in their tanks


Well, why do you think I don't have any in my tank right now. The last thing I want is a beautiful tank that simply would be a copy of yours, not because your tank is not very nice, but how boring would that be?

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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 19:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Just to chime in here: wisteria is a great stem plant becaus 1.) it fills up space and 2.) because although it grows fast, it doesn't grow so fast that it becomes weed-like, like hygro polysperma. if you have a better idea for a nutrient sucker then you let me know


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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 19:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey Ingo, I noticed no-one answered your question about how much to pinch off, 2/3rds is a bit too much, the general rule of thumb for pruning land plants is 1/3. Same with roots, take about 1/3 of the roots when you re-plant, no more or the plant goes into shock/can't get enough nutrients to survive.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 20:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Yes, but does the amount of biofileration in the substrate neutralize this algae treat


Well mulm is just decomposing organic matter. As it de-composes it produces NH4. The decomposition is a gradual process, so no matter how good the bio filtration there will always be some NH4 as the mulm will continue to produce as it rots and the bacteria will consume what it can. Kick all this up into the water column.......

But it's not just NH4 , it's other things too, decomposing organics will also be producing carbon etc, nut in the minute quantities that are useless for plants but handy for algae.

An oft overlooked aspect of EI is the need to keep tank and equipment clean. There's a reason for that. I know LF does keep his stuff clean but these overhauls are kicking up a lot of stuff.

I'd definately try a few months of relative stability (still ok to add plants ) and see how it works out.

As for the algae on the the crypts etc, I'm not sure what the cause is. I used to have that kind of stuff years back in small quantities. But this was before I had Co2 and decent light. Never seen it in a Co2 tank.


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Post InfoPosted 04-Apr-2006 04:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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These are some of the claims that carib-sea makes about eco complete.

. Contains live Heterotrophic bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants

.Unsurpassed MacroPorosity for healthy roots and bacterial efficiency.

As I said, when I remove rocks and plants I see very little mess. That sounds like a logical outcome that would result from the above claims. I believe this, plus the 5" of wisteria covering 60% of my tank is helping with algae control. Also a while back when I left my filter off all nite I had no negative side effects.



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Post InfoPosted 04-Apr-2006 04:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I'm sure it doesn't work much different from other subs. The important point is that the bad stuff is kept in the substrate and out of the water column. Heck Amano's powersand comes complete with Ammonia ! Should be algae/GW heaven right ? But once it's in the substrate and out of the water it's ok.

I guess it's another good reason to have herbivores like shrimp and snails. Clears up that rotting vegetation real quick.

I noticed in the past that has tanks got older and the mulm built up that algae was more difficult to keep at bay. Part of the reason I changed the substrate completely last year.

I find too that the smaller grains of substrate like the Eco or filter sand are easier to keep clean as the mulm tends to stay on top and is easy to suck out at water change. The bigger grains seems to trap more mulm in the bigger cracks and gaps in the gravel.

Notice LF has a bigger grain then us .......(that's NOT a cue to change the substrate, Ingo )


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Post InfoPosted 04-Apr-2006 08:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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that's NOT a cue to change the substrate, Ingo
Ok, I will try to restrain myself

Yeah, vacuuming the mulm of the gravel was almost impossible in the past as there were plants everywhere. Since the latest overhaul (2 weeks back) I have the front open and vacuum lightly the top of the gravel (don't want to dig in too deep to NOT stirr up some gunk). Nevertheless, this open area sees fast growing green threads on the gravel.

luvmykrib - Thanks for the trimming advice

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Post InfoPosted 04-Apr-2006 11:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So back to my lighting theory.

How much for how long?

It seems that a lot of your plants now aren't really fast growers or real demanding of light. Such as your cyrpts and anubias.

Maybe do a low to mod light for most of the day with a kicker to high light for a couple hours in the afternoon would work better. That is if you are running high all the time. Isn't that what Ammato or whatever his name does?

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Post InfoPosted 04-Apr-2006 17:19Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Wings,

Since pretty much the setup day (with a few mishaps, but none of these in the last 2 months):

Lighting Period 11h - 10AM to 9PM
Lights: 2x96W = 1.54wpg for 11h
4x96W = 3.07wpg for 3h starting at 1PM, ending at 4PM

What do you think?

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Post InfoPosted 04-Apr-2006 17:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Thats interesting...

Oh my 40G I am running 3.25 wpg all day... well about 12 hours a day. But I have different plants than you(the big three plants in my tank are hygro's and they are weeds).

Here is my resent thinking on things. (look out!)

Higher light = faster growth = more ferts being taken up.

So in my tank with high light for longer my plants are going to be driving full force all day and taking up more ferts in comparison to yours. I guess here is the punch line then: are you adding too much ferts for the lower light for most of the day + having a good hand full of plants that aren't sucking it up as fast(anubius and crypts?).

Just probably over thinking things... but its weird that I haven't had any major algae issues(yet..) Maybe you should email Tom and ask him whats up...

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Post InfoPosted 04-Apr-2006 21:50Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Since were comparing lighting periods:

Lighting Period 11h - 9:30AM to 8:30PM
Lights: 1x96W = 1.33wpg (9:30AM to 11:30AM, 5:30PM to 8:30PM)
Lighting Period 7h - 11:30AM to 5:30PM
Lights: 2x96W = 2.67wpg for 6h


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Post InfoPosted 05-Apr-2006 03:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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are you adding too much ferts for the lower light for most of the day + having a good hand full of plants that aren't sucking it up as fast(anubius and crypts?).


After many thousands of posts and over a year of posting can we get off the too much ferts and "not sucking up" thing
It doesn't work that way. Excess ferts don't cause algae. Not all being "sucked up" doesn't cause algae. The whole point of EI is to dose an excess to make sure nothing runs out. Doesn't matter if they aren't all sucked up, no harm.

Looking at too much fert and you are barking up the wrong tree and will get nowhere. You will see toxicity and dead fish long before you see any algae with excess ferts.

The problem is elsewhere.

Lighting seems fine.

To remove existing algae without over trimming try a 3 day blackout. Should kill most of it if not all. Plants won't mind a bit, they'll be fine.

After blackout continue with normal dosing, you should have a stable regime by now. Keep everything stable for a couple of months. No major changes, add plants whenever you like. See how that works out.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 05-Apr-2006 03:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I strongly agree with Bensaf. I've been saying for a long time (look back at my posts) this is a waste / mass thing. Bensaf is being more specific and I believe has good insight on the "churning up" of this waste into the water column. I've been dosing 3/4 tsp no3, 5ml flourish fe everyday on top of 10ml flourish and I have not seen any hair or thread algae or any other type.

Consistent routine and small moves seem to be a hugh plus in keeping things clean and stable. It's been two weeks now since I cleaned bba off my main rock and I don't see any new growth yet. It may be too soon, but I honestly think I'm beating the bba in my tank without using excel.



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Post InfoPosted 05-Apr-2006 03:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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It's been two weeks now since I cleaned bba off my main rock and I don't see any new growth yet.




After Co2 the most important factor causing algae would be mulm - BBA can access the carbon from decomposing organics very very easily, far easier then plants. And we've already proved how important carbon is for BBA to flourish.

Tetra raises another valid point. He's adding what he's adding and not getting algae. So if high FE or high P causes algae why doesn't he have it, or me ?

If you suspect nutrients are the other folks adding the same amount having algae ? You can rule things out.

In LF's case we can rule out nutrients (or least excess nutrients). So what does that leave ......
Light? Well can you reduce that to just running the 1.5 watts for the entire period. See what that does, that will rule that out. But I don't that's an issue really , but it can be proved one way or the other easily.

Co2? Easy to prove - turn it up.

That just leaves stability. Well we know how to handle that, so try and see how that works. It's another thing that can be proved/ruled out.

After that there's not much left.




Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 05-Apr-2006 08:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Blackout, haven't thought about that option in a long time, so long that I actually forgot that it can help killing existing algae. Guess I get too old to remember such things .

Anyway, here is a poll.
I received my diffusers yesterday. I am not sure about their quality though, they are made in China. Also, why is an 8 coil better than the short one? So, the poll is as follows - Next Step should be:

1) Add plants (Wisteria and such) and leave everything else the same
2) Change to the Diffuser (8 coil) and leave everything else the same
3) Change to the Diffuser and add plants and leave everything else the same
4) Don't change anything and do a 3 day blackout first, then add plants only
5) Don't change anything and do a 3 day blackout first, then change to the Diffuser only
6) Don't change anything and do a 3 day blackout first, then change to the Diffuser and add plants
7) Other, please explain

Which one of these options do you think I should attempt?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 05-Apr-2006 11:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Oh,

I almost forgot. Here is a picture of the diffuser shipment. The larger ones state "Made in China" the smaller ones say nothing about where they have been produced, and acrually one of them seems to have a crack. Plus, I could swear that the small ones advertised had 3 coils while the ones delivered have none. I will have to check the site again.

Are they any worse than the ones you guys run?

Attached Image:

Diffuser Shipment



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Post InfoPosted 05-Apr-2006 11:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
I vote #6. Kill off the bad stuff. Then start preventing it with the better CO2 and plants.

BTW, the one on the left is the one that I have. Seems to be working ok but I am not overly impressed with the bubble size even after the bleach baths.

Edit:
Sorry about taking steps back....

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Post InfoPosted 05-Apr-2006 14:46Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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OK,

That is one vote for lights-out first and then plants/diffuser and no vote for anything else .

If possible then I would like to know within the next 10 hours if there are more opinions as I would start the lights out tomorrow (Thursday) and end it three days later (Sunday). Whis way I will have the time to do a water change right away when the black-out ends.

And just to know: I guess I simply unplug lights and CO2. Do I throw a blanket over the tank to shade it from even room light?

Thanks in advance,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 00:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well, I don't know if I could pick a number but since algae won't grow in a blackout why not clean up the tank throughly before the blackout, this way when you turn on the lights the tank will already be pretty clean.

So I would suck all the gunk, trim plants, etc. and then lights out. Then I would have wisteria or other good plants at the ready. Plant densely, you have the lights to support that.

I would definitely use the diffusor. It's more efficient I believe than that big reactor, so unnecessary. The difference between your reactor and the diffusor is like the difference between an old b&W TV and a plasma.

BTW - While your tank is blacked out it will give you an opportunity to scape your 29G.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 01:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I vote for no light. Don't give the aglae anything to work with.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 02:11Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
dan76
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i reckon you should give the tank a clean first and then do no 6.

ps i dont know if i made the 10 hr time limit but its only thurs morning here

OH TOLEEDY!
Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 02:46Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I've tried the big Boyu one. It works just fine. The bigger one is supposed to be for bigger tanks. The marketing says the longer shape keeps the co2 in contact with water longer. pile of crap to be honest. The small one work just as good IMO. I changed to a smaller one just to take up less space but keep the Boyu as my back-up in case I drop the small one or do something else stupid.

Why'd you get 4 BTW ? Are you going to split the Co2 line , run all 4 ? If running 2 try a mix of the big and small see if there's any difference or which you like best.

Don't forget to fill them with water. This you will find remarkably difficult Let them soak in a container of water for a few hours/days , they'll eventually fill.

For the blackout it should be complete, not even room lights so cover the tank or keep basement lights off. Switch off Co2 of course.

Personally I'd do the blackout then clean up, water change and add plants and diffusers immediately after , then regular dosing maintenance for a few weeks and see how it goes. Works ok then gradually play with your scape . Add plants whenever but removal of plants or movements of groups of plants should be steady and gradual.




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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 03:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Why'd you get 4

Cause LF is an ANIMAL!

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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 04:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Votes For: Leave it alone.

For what it's worth, (I know I'm not one of your trusted cabinet members, sitting on the fence between the light and dark side) I agree with everyone a few pages back. Too much tinkering. Let it settle into a groove for a few weeks(let Stella, obvious choice of name for your tank, get her proverbial groove back). Keep the ferts in there and the CO2 up, and wait it out. That's what I did, except I turned my CO2 down, which brings me to my other point - my home made external reactor can kick your diffusers butt. Try getting 40ppm of CO2 using less than 1 bubble per second with the diffuser. Besides, it makes for nice white noise when you have loud people in your apartment. Between the nice bubbling of my CO2 reactor, and the slurping sound of my overflow on the salt tank I have no trouble motivating myself to go number 1.

I finally believe in most of the EI teachings(MOST MOST!). This is hard for me to say....I've been against it for quite some time. I remember seeing bensaf's tank right when he first logged onto FP and muttering to myself and shaking my fist at my plants. His green thumb is only bested by his ability to turn a glass box into a beautiful underwater forest scene (my thumb on the otherhand, brown as it is, is equalled by my lack of vision). My first two attempts at EI were very unsuccessful though. The first time I blame completely on inconsistant CO2, the second I went too much by the books. Now I have my own tweaks and what not of the basic formula, but I can't argue with the recent proof in my tank. It looks pretty dang good. And the plants have color. My plants looked at least as bad as yours, LF, and I never scrubbed anything(except glass and plastic things), uprooted a single plant, or blacked out the tank. I just turned the photoperiod down(more wiggle room), put the ferts in, and let it get it's groove. I'd say it's taken a month and a half just keeping things normal for it to come around. I think you should try that as well. It might be too hard for you to leave it alone though.



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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 06:24Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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After many thousands of posts and over a year of posting can we get off the too much ferts and "not sucking up" thing
It doesn't work that way.


Do you think we'll ever get it?

Votes For: Drives Bensaf nuts before we get it



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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 06:35Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Votes For: Drives Bensaf nuts before we get it


Oh Matty, they drove me nuts loooonnngggg ago. Many's the night I spent banging my head against the apartment wall 'cos it felt more productive then dealing with my "sons" (although I have a couple of daughters now )


Nice to see you pop back, when you gonna give up playing with those darn sea rocks and come back to the color and glory of the underwater forest ?


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Well, I was afraid that when I open my log this morning I will find a) no responses or b) varying suggestions. In good old fish/plant keeper fashion you followed path b) .

I guess the first step in the learning process (for the 100th time) is patience and as such I decided not to rush things. My tank will not turn into a monster if I wait one more week and discuss the topic a little more with you folks - if you don't mind.

Basically what I get is that I should add plants and switch to the diffuser. And most (except Matty) suggest a balck-out. Let me (us) think about it some more, but I guess in the meantime I should not add plants as they would potentially be exposed to the black-out before they can settle.

Why did I get 4 diffusers? That is easy to answer - because I can .

No, seriously, in no particular order:

- I pay shipping once
- I wasn't clear what the output difference between a large one and a small one was (like Bensaf, I also questioned why the coils would do anything)
- I want to keep the option open to split the line (discussed somewhere like 30 pages back) and use the same diffuser type on both ends
- I also played with the thought that I may use 2 different sizes on a split line
- If I don't split the line then I have the option to alternate the diffuser, meaning I don't have to change them during water change and putting in a clean one takes less than a minute
- Last but not least, like Bensaf I believe that having a backup cannot harm in case I drop one

Matty: thanks for the input . Leaving the tank alone was pretty much what I tried to do after the first overhaul, maybe not for long enough though. I couldn't wait any longer then as the threads where really kicking into gear and threatened to take over completely. I am worried that I am at a similar stage now. During your month and a half of letting things settle - did the algae increase, and if so by how much?

Dan: You sure made the 10 hour time limit . Thanks for the input, you should add your wisdom more often.

Ok, thanks again for all the input (to the regular participants in this log as well),

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 11:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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when you gonna give up playing with those darn sea rocks and come back to the color and glory of the underwater forest ?


Ahhh, I think I'm hooked, unfotunately. Check out this new coral I got(none of my plants come close to that color):

ooooh, aahhhhh

During your month and a half of letting things settle - did the algae increase, and if so by how much?


Some algae increased, like the green puffball type, and the BBA. I also had some green spaghetti type stuff, it looked like I accidentally dropped some algae(chaetomorpha or brillo pad) from my "sea rocks" into my planted tank. I've never seen that in a freshwater tank before(and I thought I'd seen ALL the algae). It was pretty easy to pull out, and I don't see it anymore.

The last week saw the decrease of those, with only the stubborn BBA still holding on in a few places. If I would just go in there and trim it out it would probably be gone forever. Might do that saturday on water change day.

Unfortunately (for your knowledge purposes) the thread algae disappeared really quick. Maybe in two weeks. I'm sure it was a lack of nitrates that caused them in my tank. Coulda been a lack of PO4 or anything else, the tank totally bottomed out, but I've never had a problem with that particular algae and I've always had nitrates, up until I traded my angels.

If I were you I'd turn the photoperiod down to 9 hours with 2 lights and 2 hours with 4 lights. Keep up with the dosing and water changes for a couple weeks. If there's no improvement in algae(the plants will probably suffer a little), I won't argue with the blackout. IMO though, it's not a cure to the problem. It's a quick fix, and the algae will come back. They've been around long enough to be able to survive that sort of thing. Especially for only 3 days.



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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 16:49Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
Check out this new coral I got(none of my plants come close to that color):


Nah, looks like an infection I once had, a dose of penicillin cleared it right up

I have a friend here who owns the biggest marine aquarium shop in Indonesia (he's a westerner too) , tons of great stuff. Prices are unreal, you'll cry at how cheap things are and of course everything is caught locally so it's "fresh" as fresh can be almost the same as popping out for quick scuba and collecting your self.

BTW $1 = 9,000 Indonesian Rupiah
www.aquarium-laut.com

I've been tempted to give it a shot but don't have enough time.


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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 03:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Dang, I saw some stuff for 10usd that would be 5-6 times that much here. Not fair man. I think I'm going to move out there. I didn't happen to see any blasto's like mine though. They aren't too common, I've been waiting around for months for some like these.

Nah, looks like an infection I once had, a dose of penicillin cleared it right up






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No other comment to Bensaf's infections

So, tomorrow during the water change I will exchange the reactor with the diffuser. I envision to place it rather low on the left glass panel, in the middle between back and front. Way up on that panel sits the spray bar. I think the bubbles should get caught in the current from that bar and be dispersed throughout the tank.

Sounds right?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 11:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Bensaf,

I am so going to have to use that one at work on the SW geeks!

LF,

I think you are on the right track. What are you thinking for the black out or no black out?


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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 14:46Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wings,

Good that you bring up the blackout again, as we hopefully still have Matty's attention:

Matty - I take it that you don't think the blackout would do anything good at all. I understand what you mean when you say that algae is around for quite a while and will come back when the situation is right again. The question I have to you now is: Do you mean literally that the same algae is coming back or that new algae will be back because conditions haven't changed? My solemn reason for the blackout would be to get rid of existing algae as I cannot remove my hardscape without making a major mess again. Changing to another CO2 distribution method (diffuser) and upping my P are the counter measures taken to make the environment more hostile to new algae. Under these conditions, do you still think that a blackout would be useless and if so then why?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 14:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
What I mean is that under no light conditions you will kill algae, yes. This might help you get an edge on it. I've only heard a blackout work long term a couple times, and that was because the tank conditions had changed before the blackout in a way such as to discourage their growth permanently. In those cases, had they not used the blackout, I beleive patience would have served just fine, because conditions were growing harsh for the algae.

Just my opinion, but it's a quick fix, a band-aid, duct tape. There is no way to eliminate algae from your tank. There's some in mine(obviously). There's some in bensaf's tank. Amano has it, just like everyone else. It's waiting for the right conditions to spring up. The blackout will also have an effect on your plants. They won't like the dark either, but they won't die(hopefully). However, they will stunt a little, stop growing, and what do we know happens when plants stop growing? The door is wide open for algae, it's just about who recovers quicker. If the conditions are right for plants, you get a leg up on the algae. If the conditions are the same, the outcome is the same as before. If in fact, the conditions favor algae, a blackout can be bad news, and I've had a costomer experience that, didn't sound pretty.

The best thing about working at an LFS is that you can give people the facts and some will take it one way, and others will go a different route. You get to see what happens under a lot of different circumstances in a very short amount of time. It's like having 100 tanks to play with(but you don't have to pay for it). People that tend to make headway are the people that turn the lights down a notch(able to turn up later bit by bit), add more plant mass, more CO2, balanced nutrients(it's very hard to explain the thoughts behind EI in 5-10 minutes), and do water changes regularly.

I had a guy with a 55 tank and the 4 foot coralife fixture(I admit that I forget the wattage maybe 130?), no CO2 and dirty fish. He really wanted live plants so I pointed him to a bunch of types and told him the more plants you get the easier it will be, and to get a lot of fast growers. Against my wishes, he picked maybe 6 different plants, mostly slow growers. He went home and set the lights on for 12 hours. We all know what happened here. So he comes back and asks why it happened. Good guy. Most costomers throw fits and make children cry(yes, some lfs workers don't know everything, but the average costomer is far worse than any lfs worker who doesn't know the scientific name and max growth of every fish in the store). After explaining things a little I sent him home with 10 bunches of stem plants and some anacharis. When he got home he turned the lights down to 9 hrs. He thought the anacharis was the ugliest thing he'd ever seen. Now it's his favorite joke, something like it's growing out of the tank and eating the pets and different pet shop of horrors type stuff. Nowadays(2 months later) I ask him how his algae is doing and all he has to complain about is the anacharis. -The End

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not suggesting you go get a ton of anacharis, though it would probably have a good effect, it's just the plant mass reliable growth thing.

EDIT: And by the "they've been around long enough" I meant the billions of years of evolution thing(not in your tank). Algae and cockroaches are prepared for armageddon. We can't kill it, only maybe contain it. You know if people can't kill something, it's hardy.



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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 16:13Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Well Matty,

You for sure presented some very convincing and encouraging point

And I also understood what you meant with algae being around a long time (I already understood the first time you said it).

That is exactly the reason why I decided not to rush the situation with the blackout last Wednesday night. Input like yours is too valuable to come to late.

Thanks again,

Ingo

EDIT: Oh, and before I forget: this customer with the plant/algae issue, he thinks anacharis (egeria najas/densa) is the ugliest plant? Has he seen Hornwort?


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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 16:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And I also understood what you meant with algae being around a long time (I already understood the first time you said it)


oops I misread your post, I thought you thought it mattered how long it had been in you tank....my mistake.

That is exactly the reason why I decided not to rush the situation with the blackout last Wednesday night. Input like yours is too valuable to come to late.


Well thanks, and I'm glad I checked in here when I did then. I just think there's a better way to get things done, as long as the plants are still healthy and growing, that's less risky and damaging. You can always try the blackout down the road if you can't get things fixed.

BTW is there any flow/filtration on the right side of your tank?



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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 16:48Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EDIT: Oh, and before I forget: this customer with the plant/algae issue, he thinks anacharis (egeria najas/densa) is the ugliest plant? Has he seen Hornwort?







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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 16:49Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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BTW is there any flow/filtration on the right side of your tank?


Not currently.

Twice I used to have a powerhead on that side blowing water to the left. My assumption was that maybe this side is stale and that's why I have problems, but:

- It did never make a difference either way, even when the powerhead was humming for weeks
- I have at least as much algae on the left than the right
- I kind off like the idea (tell me if it is a bad one) that there are areas in the tank with less current as some fish may like to hang out without having to paddle the whole time. Interestingly, I have usually as many fish on the left than the right, except when they see me - then they all come to the left where I feed them.

Oh, off topic. In recent days I have noticed an increase in Espei active schooling, as in patrolling the tank as a gang. I attribute it to the fact that the younger ones are now old enough to be fully accepted by the seniors and that I have 30 fish less, aka some space to actually swim to where there are no other fish.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 18:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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wow i must say this tank has been threw so much and looks great.
NICE JOB LF!!
i do have to say that i cant wait till the dwarf cichlids get in there...hope u get some babies here soon!
i think maybe a small addition of some pink on the other side of the tank would be nice( by the anubias) or placing the rotala in the middle...in my opinion it would be more of an eye catcher that way.
is all the algae gone now besides the small spot you like? well LF im glad to see the tank is comming along(and cant wait to see what more comes to be)i saved the one picture of the before and after together as my background on my computer...you have inspired me to make my 29-gallon( yes much smaller) tank a beautiful display tank for some of the smaller rainbows and such...GET BACK SOON WANNA HERE MORE!!!
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bratyboy2,

What a nice comment. You made me the biggest compliment I can get, being an inspiration to others is a major accomplishment for me. And if your tank looks prettier in the end than mine then I will have to kill you .

Actually, I will add some pink (purple) to the left of the Anubias group today as I will have to trim the Alternanthera on the way right and the tops go to the left to grow out.

You mention that I should put the Rotala in the middle. I don't think I have Rotala in my tank since quite a while, which plant do you mean?

Sadly, the algae is not gone, read through the last maybe 30 entries (since the last weekly update) to get all the details. But I am working on it .

Thank you so much again,

Ingo


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I just finished my weely water change, pictures of it will be posted tomorrow as I have to wait to take them until all the bubbles are gone.

I have overall more discouraging news with regards to the algae. When I looked closely through the tank to detect dead leaves etc., I discovered that the driftwood is beginning to be covered with BBA, loads of small gray bushels in particular on the upper half of the wood. This is so demotivating.

I also added the glass diffuser, it took me about half an hour until I finaly had all the air out, there was only a tiny bit left. I started it up after the water change and had to move it a few times until it was positioned that most bubbles will be caught in the current of the spray bar. Now, in this position it is a little angled, the top is more towards the left glass panel than the bottom. Is that a problem? Also, I noticed that now I have gas and not water in the upper region of it, down to the uppermost coil. Is that a problem? And, bubbles do not come out from the entire ceramic plate but only from part of it. Again, is that a problem?

Cheers, your frustrated Ingo

Attached Image:

Diffuser in action



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Post InfoPosted 08-Apr-2006 23:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Hey LF

BBA on wood:
I have/had that for a long time now, but in your case if the wood isn't removable (practical) than you'll have to wait to you beat it back. I would just stay on course and ignore it. Keep co2 way up and plant densly. Keep feeding minimal, the fish will be fine. Mine has definitely slowed or stopped since I don't see new bba growth on my rocks

Glass Diffusor:
It's normal when you first start to use it to only have bubbles coming thru from part of it. As it's (primeed) the whole thing should work.

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I have been running my GD for a few weeks now and it is still only coming from part of it.

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Thanks you two for the input on the glass diffuser and tetratech also for the info on the BBA. I tried to get a picture of it but there were still too many bubbles (may have been CO2 bubbles from the diffuser already) to get a clear shot of it.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 28

This week was more about discussions of a potential black-out then it was about tank changes. Not much had happened, except that I observed the thread algae is still multiplying and to top it off yesterday's discovery of large numbers of tiny BBA bushels on the driftwood.

Certain plants in the tank are still growing strong, as usual leading the way are the Star Grass (grew back to the top) and the Pearl Grass. Maybe I should get more plants that have the word "Grass" in their common name as they seem to be doing excellent in my tank . I also observe new leaves on the Anubias Nana and Barteri group, it seems they are doing ok now after I treated them so badly during my last major overhaul (out of the water for hours).

I trimmed two stems of the Alternanthera and planted them on the left, also two small bushels of Wisteria have been added from the 20G (couldn't get more out, growth in that tank is really slow). The mother crypts that have been added a week and a half ago still show signs of melting, in particular the red ones.

The glass diffuser was also added to replace the reactor. I am not sure, but last evening, about 4 hours after the change, the top half of the tank was full of bubbles. This could still be from the water change, although I have never observed this previously. Today, I will have to keep an eye open for the ph. I also upped my dosage of Baking Soda, without measuring I would say that it should be around 4 to 5 by now, I will check later. Also, I upped the dosage of Equilibrium to about 1.5tsp, I figured it cannot harm, right?

On to the pictures. First I will show 4 full tank shots in 3 week gaps since I changed the tank to contain the driftwood. In addition, I only have 2 detail shots to show, I didn't feel like bothering you with more details on algae-covered plants, you have seen enough of these already.

So, here is the tank 9 weeks ago right after the driftwood had been added:

Attached Image:

Tank 9 Weeks Ago



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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2006 12:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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3 Weeks later, all plants seemed (from the distance) to be still going strong. But when closer observed, the Macandra started to stall, the Retrospiralis - previously split from one plant plug into multiple - started to have dying leaves and thread algae, and the Anubias on the right became covered in threads.

Also, more and more threads were observed on the other surfaces, like glass, gravel, and wood:

Attached Image:

Tank 6 Weeks Ago



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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2006 12:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Another 3 weeks later, the tank had seem its next major overhaul. This was an attempt to reduce the by now rampant growth of the thread algae and to reduce the number of dying plants, in particular the Retrospirals but also most very tall Narrow Leaf Saggitarias.

In this stage the tank had probably the lowest plant mass since maybe week 2 after setup. Guess it makes sense that algae started to have a field day.

Attached Image:

Tank 3 Weeks Ago



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Here is the tank now from last night, after the water change and general maintenance.

I like the way the trimmed tops of the Alternanthera create a color pocket on the left side. Would be nice if they settle and I could create a whole group of them over there (not too tall though). The Pearl Grass also could have used a trimming, but I decided to let it grow to maintain more plant mass. These days, the tank is less about beauty then it is about not losing it completely.

Attached Image:

Tank Now



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Now on to the two close-ups.

Nothing special really. The first one shows one of the two small Wisteria bushels that have been added. You can see the bubbles on the Pearl Grass next to it and on the Wisteria itself. I don't know if they are still from the water change or already the result of the switch to the diffuser:

Attached Image:

Tiny Wisteria



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The last picture for now shows the left 4th of the tank. Please observe how high up I have placed the diffuser. I initially had it lower but then the bubbles would hit the spray bar more on its back and go to the surface directly, without being washed through the tank. Also, you can see the the diffuser's top is closer to the left than the bottom (the left edge of the picture is the glass). I had to make sure that the plate area is not too close to the glass, for the same reasons as above. BTW, the holders for the diffuser are normal air line sucktion cups and don't really seem to fit the diameter of the glass tube. They barely can reach half around the tube.

In the front of the tank you can see the Pearl Grass, followed by the new Wisteria, and to the right the thread algae covered crypts. The Ludwigia in the back is becoming stronger, it also was grown from small clippings of the 20G. In the midground is a red Wendtii and the tops from the Alternanthera:

Attached Image:

Left Tank with Diffuser



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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2006 12:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Tanks looking good Algae is certainly not obvious from the pics.

What you are seeing with the diffuser is all normal. You just running one ? Checked Co2 yet ? I'd be interested in how one of them does in such a big tank ! Maybe check the far side of t5ank too to make sure it's spreading out nicely.


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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2006 15:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
bensaf,

Thanks for the input. Yeah, maybe I should specialize in taking pictures from far away .

I haven't measured anything yet, but I will do within the next 30 min. The lights in the tank went on about 30 min ago and I already seem to observe (or maybe I have noticed it before) that the Rainbows are huddling together, without moving much around. The far side of the tank appears to actually get more bubbles then the side on which the diffuser sits. The spray bar current blows them all over to the other side where there is little current.

Makes me quite nervous, this diffuser thing. I would almost assume that I will have to reduce the bubble rate, which now is still almost a solid stream.

Thanks again,

Ingo

EDIT: Ah - and congrats on the 10 Gold Starts, Bensaf /:'


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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2006 16:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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OK,

Just measured the tank parameters and I came up with results that seem a little off:

KH - maybe 4.5 dH - seems about right given that I added more Baking Soda than usual
ph - 7 - that is the odd one as 7 is my tab ph. Could it be that my water change from yesterday had raised the ph although the reactor and later the diffuser were humming all day? I will check again in a while just to make sure I got the right reading.

Here is a shot of the way right side of the tank, top area. All the white dots are CO2 bubbles:

Attached Image:

CO2 on the right



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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2006 17:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
LF,
I agree, I like the pocket of color you have on the left I personally would like to see the red plant on the right moved inward somewhat. don't make the corners any higher.

Whenever you can, trim! Doesn't trimming intiate even more growth (one step back, two step forward) that will get the plants sucking up more.

By the evening my entire water surface is a pretty much solid mass of tiny bubbles. It made me nervous at first but I see no effect on the fish. Remember co2 doesn't displace o2.


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LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

Thanks for the confirmation on the diffuser stuff, I am glad that I am not the only worried one when setting up the bubble machine. About moving the right hand Alternanthera more to the middle - maybe some day, but for now things are only being moved to add new plants for extra suckage of Nutrients .

I just measured the ph again, 4 hours later than the last time. It is now at about 6.8 with a slight tendency to less. Now the main lights in the tank will come on. Babies, let's grow

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2006 19:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
So, another 4 hours later than the last test, I did another two - one on each side of the tank. Both panned out with a ph of about 6.6 maybe a little less.

This should give me about 33ppm of CO2, that would be pretty much where I would like it to be. If I remember then I will test one more time around 9, just before lights out.

Ingo

EDIT: Oh, and I do not see any bubbles on the plants.


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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2006 23:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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LF,
It is really tricky getting the right setting with your CO2. When I first got my diffuser I had tons of bubbles too! Since then I have turned it down a bit because I was getting my ppm up to around 50 or so. Now I don't seem to have the bubble thing going on.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks Wings,

Last night I checked my ph again and it seemed to have stabilized at around 6.6, meaning I still had a CO2 saturation of around 33ppm. This is more than I had before because, albeit I frequently had this ph, I upped the KH by about 1dH.

The thing that puzzles me about these observations is that I cannot explain why my ph was 7 in the morning. I had CO2 running the day before, except for the maybe 1.5 hours during maintenance. Given that 7 is my tab value, I would assume that my ph at lights out must have been lower than that. Now, having had 7 in the morning, wouldn't that mean that my plants haven't produced any CO2 all night long? Or did they and the surface agitation from the spray bar made it all evaporate? Very confusing

I also sat back last night and observed the fish for a while, just to make sure they are ok. Well, all seems fine to me, although they all stayed mostly in the lower parts of the tank. It is always nice to see the different characters of my fishies, the Pearls slowly parading, the Rainbows playing chase with each other and then regrouping with the Pearls for a while to rest, the Espei forming a school of about 15 to 20, going from left to right (or the other way), finding there more of their kind and breaking out of school mode, and the Otos - well they are eating .

I cannot count how many Espei are in there, but for sure still enough that the there is basically not one area of the tank where there are none. Maybe I should think about trading in another 20 or so.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Apr-2006 11:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Makes me quite nervous, this diffuser thing. I would almost assume that I will have to reduce the bubble rate, which now is still almost a solid stream.


Well doesn't everything worry you Ingo ?

Actually you ,ay have to use less gas I certainly found the diffusers so efficient I had to drop the bubble rate a little.
Measuring pH just before lights on is the worst time to test. Just after lights on at best.
Even at over 30ppm once the gas is switched off the Co2 in the tank will evaporate in a few hours going into equilibrium with the athmosphere. The plants don't produce that Co2 at night ! So testing pH to calculate Co2 content is worthless before lights on, yes the tank water would be at almost tap level.
If you are hitting 30ppm at lights off after a day of the plants using the Co2 then you know you are good.

Good to see the diffusers work on even such a large tank.

EDIT: Ah - and congrats on the 10 Gold Starts, Bensaf


Thanks . only took 2 years At least I won't have to do that darn quiz again


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 10-Apr-2006 11:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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At least I won't have to do that darn quiz again


That's how I feel as well. Now let's see when tetratech reveals his "real" star count. I bet you not before he has 10 as well.

About the ph test. The first one yesterday in the morning was right after lights on (maybe 20 min into the lighting period).

Interesting, so you say the CO2 that is produced by plants would not read as a measurable ph influence? Can you explain that a little more?

And about the worrying: You know me so well . I tjust makes my day when I have something to worry about. And my tank as never failed me so far.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Apr-2006 11:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I tjust makes my day when I have something to worry about. And my tank as never failed me so far.


I think Ingo secretly sabotages his own tank, so he has something to worry about.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Apr-2006 18:00Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Yeah, I sabotage my tank (and my spelling ) on purpose, you found me out, Matty .

I wish you were right. The thought that some people may not take my concerns serious anymore (may I say cry wolf) has for sure crossed my mind.

But bear with me, I am really trying to have an algae and problem free tank, just like the rest of you.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Apr-2006 19:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Hey Ingo

Your tank is looking great. I can see that I am not the only worry wort though

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 00:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Interesting, so you say the CO2 that is produced by plants would not read as a measurable ph influence? Can you explain that a little more?


They just don't produce enough Co2 to make a noticable difference. Heck if they did we wouldn't need these fancy gas tanks, every aquarium with plants would have 30ppm of Co2 in the morning !

Co2 dissipates pretty quickly. Turn off your gas and see how quickly the pH goes back to tap value. Even at 30ppm it only takes a ciuple of hours to go back to 2ppm. That's why we have to keep it flowing during the lighting period.

On your non Co2 planted tanks - does the ph drop by 1 full point during the night? No, right ? Maybe by 0.1 or 0.2 this pretty much teels you how much co2 the plants produce at night. About 2-3ppm. Also shows you how pointless the "should I run my co2 at night" "should I run an airstone at night"discussions are !!!

Long story short, testing pH before gas/lights on is fruitless if your purpose is to check Co2. You need to wait a few hours for the gas to kick in, just before lights out is the ideal time to test.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 03:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks Robyn for letting me know that I am not the only one of my kind here . I was even worried about you running this marathon. How did that go?

Thanks Bensaf for the info on the CO2 at night. I would assume that the ph swing at night in natural waters depends, besides the plant mass, on the water flow, meaning still waters should have a larger swing (down) than flowing water, right? This also made me realize that we, in out tanks, actually turn the natural ph swing upside-down. While in nature the ph should be higher during the day, it is the time when we lower it.

Different topic:

Last evening I went to the LFS and got lucky and purchased 6 small stems of Wisteria, plus one other plant that I would like you to help me on a positive ID. I currently just "threw" them in the tank, it was late, and will properly plant them tonight. I most likely will take out my Red Rubin Sword and put them in its place. That plant received a heavy trimming (during my masive make-over) because so many older leaves where full of threads. Also, it went through a quick bleach dip at the same time. Now, most leaves are really thin and algae infested yet again. Only the new growth is ok, and it takes up a lot of real estate that I need more now for fast growers.

Anyway, here is a shot of 4 parked Wisteria stems

Attached Image:

Parked Wister I



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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 11:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And here are the other 2. I actually think that they don't look all that bad in this spot. But I know that soon they would grow so big that you cannot see the other plants behind it anymore (and shading would set in as well).

Attached Image:

Parked Wister II



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LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Last but not least, here is a shot of the plant that I mentioned earlier.

I bought two stems that were labeled "Narrow leaf Hygro". I believe the plant is Hygrophila augustifolia, is that correct? Either way, what do you know about it? I would assume it is a fast grower, it is a hygro. How do you replant/trim this plant? Do you know of any problems with it?

Thanks in advance,

Ingo

EDIT: Oh - and don't forget to admire the Espei

Attached Image:

Hygrophila augustifolia ???



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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 11:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I bought two stems that were labeled "Narrow leaf Hygro". I believe the plant is Hygrophila augustifolia, is that correct? Either way, what do you know about it? I would assume it is a fast grower, it is a hygro. How do you replant/trim this plant? Do you know of any problems with it?


You should pay more attention to my pics

Yes it's Augustifolia. Been in every tank I've ever had. Probably my most favorite plant. Nothing but good things to say about it.

It's a very easy very fast grower and a stunningly beautiful plant. Give it lots of room !The leaves can get to almost a foot long.

One thing I really love about it - it branches so easily. It will produce 2 new branches at almost every single internode, so it becomes very very bushy quickly. Very thick almost woody stems.

It grows so fast, branches so easily that propogation is adoddle. You could literally have enough to fill the entire tank in a couple of months. You'll be throwing away buckets of the stuff.

Give it a location it deserves. It appreaciates a bit of flow so the leaves can sway outwards and catch the light. Not overyly important in terms of growth but brings out the best in looks. The leaves are a lovely deep green with a bright silver underside.

Best used to really fill out a corner section or as big solitary display. It's a magnificent plant and needs to be allowed to shine.

Just to remind you , mine is filling out the entire left corner in the pic and this was just after atrim ! Started out with one little stem. I think it was pretty much the first plant I ever bought years ago and there it is still going strong, will survive anything!!!

Great indicator for Nitrate or potassium. The lower leaves never drop off unless nitrate is low, also if potassium is low it will be the first to show holes in the old leaves.




Attached Image:



Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 15:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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You should pay more attention to my pics


But in my defense, I have to say that you did not give yours a prominent spot, so it wasn't easy to detect. Also, it is not that easy to remember the name of the about 50 plant species that you collected just in that one tank .

Thanks Bensaf , I guess I made a good purchase then. I like the way ot looks as well and will put it in the spot where the Red Rubin is right now (as I don't want to uproot too many plants for this latest addition. Also in that area will be the new Wisteria stems. I hope it is not too crowded there. We will know more about it tonight - in any case, there is no way that I will make these additions another major replant event, they will have to fit somewhere convenient.

Ingo


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bensaf
 
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Ok you're forgiven.

It should work well in that spot. It contrasts pretty well with Wisteria as you can see above.

On the trimming - you can do it either way. It'll branch out no matter what you do.

At this stage I usually pull up and trim the bottom. It rpoduces really thick white roots at the bottom section of the stem above the gravel which can get messy. Never seen a plant produce so may roots so quickly. Also I'll usually have a few nice sized branches at the bottom (there will be branches all over - but obviously the lower ones will be the oldest and therefore the biggest/strongest)that I can use elsewhere.

Pearls like crazy too.

I think you'll like this one.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 12-Apr-2006 03:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks Bensaf

I didn't do the small replant last night, mostly for two reasons:

a) I want to do it when I have the chance to vacuum that area as well (avoid major mulm mess), so just before the next water change fits better
b) I was simply to lazy

So, Saturday it is

Ingo


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LITTLE_FISH
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Ok, 2 days have gone passed since I added the Hygrophila augustifolia to my tank (in temp spot) and I notice the first changes. On stem has lost the lowest leaves (1 section = 2 leaves) completely while the other has withering (disintegrating) leaves beginning at the tips (also only the lowest section).

Can this be already a sign of lack of Nitrates in my tank? I would more likely assume that this is damage still done from being in the LFS tank and the transport in general. What do you think?

Another thing that happened to me in the past, and that I feel has never been completely resolved, was the complete elimination of Duckweed in my tank. I still don't understand how that could have happened. I get the low nutrient part (as I may have reduced my P too much, but never to 0), but doesn't this plant thrive in almost all conditions while most other plants would have long died? Do you have any idea?

Ingo


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bensaf
 
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I doubt, even if your tank was low that you see anything so quickly. More then likely were suffering in the shop anyway. It should perk up just watch for new growth.

Duckweed I've never had and know very little about it, but yeah I heard it was practically indestructible.

This happened while you were away, correct ? Here's astrange theory, whoever was looking after the tank thought they were dropped leaves and scooped them out thinking they were doing you a favor.

I don't think nutrients would get so low as to kill the duckweed but not show problems on the other plants.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 15:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Nah Bensaf,

It did not happen while I was away. I used to frequently thin out the amount of Duckweed that I have in the tank, you know - the shading and such. After I thinned it out one time, and I removed quite a bit and left only a small group (hard to catch these buggers in such a large tank with the current and such), it never started to re-populate. It simplygot less and less and within about two to three weeks dwindled to nothing.

Sure did I have problems at the same time, this started shortly after my algae problems broke out (thread), which started in turn after I added the new driftwood and messed with the tank like a madman in the process.

I am beginning to wonder if certain levels of the water column contain different "mixtures" of stuff. Like could it be that my messing around (or even the driftwood) had poisoned the surface to a point that the plants would die?

Oh, on the other hand: I never saw the leaves getting yellow or something, they just dissapeared. Can it be that Espei, Rainbows, and Pearls eat this stuff and I had reduced the amount to so little that it couldn't reproduce faster than the fishies ate it? You know what, that sounds almost reasonable.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 16:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Maybe your oto's thought it was tasty one day so the stoped eating your algae and starting eating the duck weed...... Just messing around....

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 21:48Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Being a little bored, I decided to add a few pictures just for the fun of it.

Number one is of male Espei. I know you have seen pictures like this before, but they have a habit of zooming into focus just at the right time:

Attached Image:

Male Espei



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Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 23:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And if one picture of an Espei is not enough, how about a picture with, well you count them

Here is the majority of the Espei tribe in one shot:

Attached Image:

Espei School



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NowherMan6
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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
Good shot LF. Not only did you get him in focus, you got him without a grumpy expression on his face - which is a rarity that any rasbora owner will attest to.

EDIT: Just a guess here, I have bad computer eyes, but around 55 or so?


Back in the saddle!
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Now on to non-moving entities

This plant has proven very hardy, is only a little influenced by the algae, has grown in shade and light, doesn't invade the rest of the tank, it is just there.

Isoetes Lacustris

I can really recommend it

Attached Image:

Isoetes Lacustris



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NowherMan6

Well, I haven't counted them yet, I was hoping that Wings will do this for me

But I have one more photo.

It shows the Star Grass group in a close-up. This plant grows so fast that I will have to replant ever other week. But it is very nice.

Attached Image:

Star Grass - Heteranthera zosterifolia



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Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 23:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I just wanted to say that this is one of the most beautiful tanks tanks I have ever seen. That school of rasboras is very impressive. Keep up the spectacular work on this tank.
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jbe0404,

Wow, I am flattered, thank you so much.

But if you find this tank beautitiful then maybe you should look at tetratech's 72G and bensaf's tank pictures (spread out, one is even in my log on page 76 - I hope you didn't think that was my tank ).

I will still have to go a long way before I am happy with my tank, but keep on checking in and let me know what you think.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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I will count them for a doller a fish. Deal? Ok Great! 49 of them... thats $49! Thanks!

Great pictures too! Love the one of the school! Very nice!





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Great pictures Ingo. I love that big school of Espei. Makes me want to run out straight away & buy another 10 of their cousins (rasboras) for my tank. Lucky it's Easter Sunday & the shops are shut, or that's what I'd be doing right now.

Dumb question, I know. But, how do I tell the difference between a male & a female rasbora. I've figured it out on my platys & guppys, but not my rasboras or my rams. I hope I have some of both & they breed.

Cheers
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Wings - Thanks, this means that you owe me only $201 now, as the fee for the entertainment in my monster log is $250

Robyn - Thanks for the compliments. To answer your gender questions (not dumb at all, BTW). Somewhere in tetratech's log are great pictures of a male and a female Bolivian Ram. I think the female get the pinkish belly when she is in breeding mode. Sexing adult (and late juvenile) Espei is rather easy as the males are rather red than orange. Otherwise, the general body shape of females is rounder than males, which are a little more streamlined.

On to the usual Sunday Topic:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 29

Not too much has happended this week, I purchased a few stems of Wisteria and 2 stems of Hygrophila augustifolia, mostly for the purpose to increase the plant mass with fast growers. The amount of algae had not declined.

Before I even started my water change this weekend I stood in front of my tank for at least 20 min because I couldn't figure out where to start. The goal was to incorporate these new plants without messing up the whole tank yet again. In addition, the really fast growing Star Grass needed a bottom trimming, in itself a major act because the whole group has to come out first.

Well, somehow I did it, and I don't think it was too bad. I removed the Red Rubin sword (sorry) as it was one of the algae magnets. Also, almost all Cyperus Helferis had to go, my 10 min bleach bath a few weeks back left them rather sick and they were re-invested in no time (or the leaves died and melted into the water column). That was a bummer as it took me a while to get this species.

On to some pictures. As I have a few details to show, full shots will only compare last week to this week. Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Last Week



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
And here is the tank now this weekend after the water change and all the other things.

The Star Grass group has been expanded to the right to take the space created by the removed Helferi. The Hygrophila augustifolia is in the spot previously occupied by the Red Rubin (and one stem to the right of it. The Wisteria stems have been spread out in the remaining gaps, I know that this is maybe not the prettiest solution, but I hope it will be efficient.

Attached Image:



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Now we go on to some detail pictures. The first segment is committed to fish, the second to plants.

Here is a close-up of a male Rainbow. I know the quality is not the best, but they showed their nice colors more than usual. I guess this water change must have been special.

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Male Dwarf Rainbow



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The next two pictures demonstrate how peaceful my tank is. It is not uncommon for the various species to hang out together. This is a good thing as there wouldn't be too much space for a species to be on their own as the Espei are everywhere .

Here is the Rainbow joining the Espei:

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Rainbow and Espei



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The same counts for the Pearls as well. Although they prefer the Rainbows over the Espei as tank buddies.

Here is the male Pearl showing the rest of the group who is the boss in the tank. It will be interesting to see how these dynamics change when the Apistos are introduced.

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The Boss



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On to the plants. Actually, the first picture is about algae. I was finally able to get a good shot of the BBA on the driftwood. This photo sums up all my problems. The center gives you a nice few of the thread algae and the rest of the branches are covered in small bushels of BBA. Interestingly, it seems that in particular the regions of the driftwood that are exposed during the water change are covered by it. It may be a coincidence though, but I had 2 or 3 small bushels of them on the tip of my rock in "Rock Valley" which also was exposed during water changes.

Not wanting togo through another week long Excel round with the tank, I dripped some Excel on the branches during low tide (water change). I doubt that it will help, but it was worth a try.

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My Friends - The Algae



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Here is a picture of the left side of the tank. A few of the Ludwigia stems needed some trimming as well. I replanted the tops where their was an opening.

Now I have about 10 plant species in this section, probably too many but I am not willing to concern myself with too many style issues as the priorities have shifted from style to algae war.

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Left side



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Here is a close-up of the new right side. Yeah, I know that it looks a little like a junge again, but we need the nutrient suckers. Also, the Alternanthera in the back corner will grow taller again and become more visible. I am very courious how the Hygrophila augustifolia will develop in this spot, maybe I will have to move it further into the back at some point.

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Right Side



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In case I haven't mentioned it before, I find the Amano Pearl Grass to be very versatile. It is one of the two plants that do really well in my tank (the other being Star Grass). You can let it grow tall, trim it shorter, replant the tops, remove the whole "bush" and trim the bottoms off.

I use the pant mostly as a filler, small pockets here and there. But in the left and right side I use them as larger groups. I would assume that they serve as fry hideouts as well.

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Amano Pearl Grass



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Here is the last shot for now, the new middle section.

As you can see, the Star Grass group has been expanded to the right, behind the Wendtii and various Anubias types.

The other change to the Star Grass group is that I didn't make it as deep as it used to be. The parts between the branches have been filled with some Wisteria.

Never mind the current height differences within the Star Grass group as I had to use the plants that where available to me. I would assume that in no later than 2 weeks it all is going to be grown in.

Thanks for looking,

Ingo

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The Star Grass - Middle Tank Group



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Happy Easter....if you in fact celebrate it. If not, good day to ya.

Interestingly, it seems that in particular the regions of the driftwood that are exposed during the water change are covered by it. It may be a coincidence though,


Yep coicidence that the peices of driftwood closest to the light are also exposed to the air during a water change...

I found that in my tank any surfaces that were not covered with plants got bba(along with some slow growing plants). My heater, the end of the driftwood, the filter intake and output all got it. The filter intake got it the worst, and just so happened to be exposed during water changes. That means nothing except for the fact that it was closest to the light.

I bet you haven't turned the light cycle down a bit yet. I found this really worked for me in conjunction with making sure that nutrients are really there in the amounts you want them to be. In my case I used reliable test kits to give me a good idea, though people on the light side seem not to trust them. I have since turned the lights back up without sign of algae. I bet if I turned it all the way back up all at once I would have had trouble though. I think that's part of where my problems originated, from when I changed lights. It never is just one easy thing is it?

Oh, and when was the last time you changed the bulbs on your fixture? I ask this cause we all know on the darkside that compact flourescent bulbs last about 6-8 months of solid use before they shift spectrum(light usable by algae increases, light usable by plants decreases). The bulbs you keep on the majority of the day will need to be switched more frequently than the "noon time high light" bulbs. I dunno if I already brought this up though. I might have. Sorry if I did, but this threads too big to go back and check.



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Post InfoPosted 16-Apr-2006 17:30Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Matty,

Thanks for your thoughts on the relationship between BBA and air-exposed areas in the tank.

And yes, you are right, I haven't changed my light cycle a bit. The only reason to shorten the cycle would be if my algae profits from the time available when the plants are already tired of uptake. This though should not change over time, meaning that if this is how it works once then this is how it should work again the next time around (aka when you expand the period after shortening it first), except if other conditions in the tank have changed as well. As you may know, right now I have the lights on for 11h and in the middle with double light for 3h.

Now, here is a topic where I am way not with you. PCs and 6-8 months until they shift the color range? I seriously doubt that. That was not what my research showed when I investigated lights for the planted tank way back last August. Regular flourescent - yeah, that I have heard, but PCs seem to stay rather stable until they burn out which is not earlier than one year. Can this be different on the dark side because you guys use such high K ranges (20,000 - right? ) or actinic light?

Anyway, thanks for the input Matty, it is as always very appreciated

And Happy Easter to you too

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Happy Easter to All FPlers



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LF,

Isn't it true that your other tank has no algae. Why not break it down. I mean the differences between that tank and your 125 and see if you could hit on something.



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Post InfoPosted 17-Apr-2006 02:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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the relationship between BBA and air-exposed areas in the tank.


It's because they are the parts closest to the light, simple as that.

Difference between this and other tank? Well Co2 is going to be the biggest difference. What does Co2 do to a tank ?
Drives up nutrient demand explosively. So one tank with low nutrient demand has no algae, one tank with high nutrient demand has algae.

What does that tell you ?

The fact that LF was adding far less Equilibrium then he should have been for a long time is worrying. With such a low GH there would be problems. Little to no Mg and Calcium. These 2 would directly involve growth. Would certainly explain the stunting on the Reineckii but I'm surprised there wasn't more evidence of stunting on others. Depends on the plant species. Some seem to care squat if the Ca and Mg is low and keep on going, others, like the Reineckii stunt and produce ugly little curled leaves that look like they were burned, swaords and grasy plants just tend to stop growing or slow down dramatically. Don't know if any of these syptoms are familiar to LF ?

Anyway with good nutrients going in it should just be a waiting game - trim off the existing algae as new replacement growth comes in.



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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Yeah, you can get away with 12 months, but PC bulbs definitely do not hold their spectrum until they burn out(which used for 12ish hrs/day would/should be near 2 years). Sometimes bulbs will only hold their spectrum 3 months, sometimes 10. The average seems to be around 6-8, after which time they will lose/have lost about 40% of their efficacy. I've never been able to read information on spectrum and intensity given by bulb manufacturers (remember, the people who make them, not sell them), but instead must rely on heresay. So who knows what you hear is right. The sellers of the bulbs, coralife and even retailers, give bulb life(how long 50% of tested bulbs lasted, about 2 years), and initial spectrum output and intensity, not efficacy over that period, not even the actual readings after "burn in" which is about 100hrs of use.

From what research I've done on NO, VHO, PC, T-5 HO, and MH, it seems to me that T-5 HO bulbs are the only bulbs that continue to give a high percentage of light at a full year. None of these bulbs can claim however that they will give the same, or similar output for the majority of the bulb life.

Anyways, you can't assume that bulbs will last any amount of time, and should just be something to consider, because after 6-8 months of use it's increasingly likely that your bulbs are going downhill. I'm not saying that if your plants are doing great to go out and buy a new bulb every six months, but just to give thought. I'll keep mine running as long as possible. I'm a poor college kid . This isn't the most important thing to think about, and definitely not as important in a plant tank as a reef tank which need, generally speaking, more light than we give them. It was just something that crossed my mind.

Oh and you are right, actinic bulbs don't last as long as others, but since they are more for veiwing pleasure than photosynthesis, they are much less important to replace. 6500K and say 10000K(which is what I use) last the same amount of time. I'm not sure about the 20000K, these are even harder than the more common bulbs to find info on.

The only reason to shorten the cycle would be if my algae profits from the time available when the plants are already tired of uptake.


There are other reasons, for me anyways. Light is more connected to all other nutrients than any other, making it by far the most important. Having a high light tank such as yourself, means everything else has to be just right, whereas having a little less light will slow things down a bit and give you more room for error. You might find that your plants will even be as healthy/colorful, and things will be easier on you. I remember Tom Barr saying it, and I totally agree. In his experiments he'd crank the light up to see algae faster, and more ounced.

Eh, just something to think about, I'd like to know why you are so stubborn with the light and ready to change everything else. I'm not sure what everyone else thinks about this though. I'd like to know. Don't just go on what I say. It might have been total luck in my case that everything I did helped out instead of causing a huge crash.

Anyway with good nutrients going in it should just be a waiting game - trim off the existing algae as new replacement growth comes in.


I agree with this too.



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Wings - Thanks, this means that you owe me only $201 now, as the fee for the entertainment in my monster log is $250

LF,
I stayed up all night reading your log just looking for the way that to give you payment. I couldn't find one so I guess you are out of luck.

Isn't it true that your other tank has no algae. Why not break it down. I mean the differences between that tank and your 125 and see if you could hit on something.

125 = high tech
20 + 29 = low tech? But maybe that is something to look into.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Reason I brought up the two tanks, so you might go back to basics and break it down, variable by varible. Something is not in balance, thus the algae. Too much light, not enough mass (discussed too much already), too much waste in the water column, it's not the macro ferts. I'm dosing macros on my 12gallon just like my big tank and I see no algae even with 2.2wpg and no co2 (using excel daily - the only way to use it in my opinion)

Look at bensaf's tank, you would probably have to triple your current plant mass to equal his, every layer and level is full with plants.

Your algae issues are still in the light/waste/mass relationship in your tank. Your dosing EI, your plants are growing, yes some species are stunting, but I don't think these stunted plants are a big part of the mass in your tank.

I can't imagine your "old" lights are causing algae, I understand where Matty is going with the spectrum thing, but I agree that cf bulbs are much more stable.

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I ve not been here a while, sort been popping in having a look and then running away in shame! - As ever Little_Fish great tank!

I found this and thought of the gentlemen that frequent this thread and their long suffering other halves!!

http://www.ilfordaquarists.co.uk/articles8.htm

GFG



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EditedEdited by bensaf
Your algae issues are still in the light/waste/mass relationship in your tank.


Tetra has been banging away at this for a while, and not really getting the attention it should.
I just read something by Tom Barr that addresses that very issue.
Basicially it's to to with the input of organics into a system. Apparently there needs to be a balance between the the organics going in (ie fish poo, mulm) and the bacterias ability to consume it.Loading is the key rather then the amount of organics itself. If the organics are loaded faster then the bacteria can consume it then you will have algae. It's not possible to have enough plant mass to make the difference. Example a 50 gal with say 8 discus getting fed properly is going to have algae, no matter how many plants or how sound the fert routine !!!! Same tank with 2 discus will have no problems.

So you can have a high level of orgnics with no problems if the bacteria can consume it quickly, if the bacteria can't - even a small amount of organics will cause problems. Loading.

Now Espei's aren't Discus by any means but then again are we still talking 100+ rather then 8 ?

I think tetra has been on to something here.

Certainly I used to be a devil for overstocking, got over that and prefer to be understocked now (looks better), and there do seem to be less issues with a lower fish stock.

goldfishgeek, I enjoyed that article


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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Sorry Guys (and Gals) that I have not added an entry in a few days

I thought the best thing I can do right now is to let you add all your ideas of what may be causing my algae issues without interruption

While all your advice is noble and appreciated, combined it contradicts one rule that I believe I am beginning to understand (and follow): "Change one thing at a time, give it time to show its effect, if it doesn't help then move on to the next option".

I totally agree with the fact that light duration and fish load can have something to do with it, heck - they do have something to do with it. But right now I am increasing the plant mass and as painful as it is even for me, I am willing to give the plants time to grow and to monitor any changes, if they ever happen .

The "mental" issue I have with regards to light is that I somehow believe that reducing duration, or even cutting out the midday light, will conclude in a tank that I can have without CO2 and what not. So why would I want to go that route?

The "mental" issue I have with the fish load is - I like fish too . Although I can imagine reducing the Espei group (now maybe around 70) by another 20 to 30, you guys have no idea how hard it is to catch these buggers in that tank. While I had 100 it took me 1.5 hours to get 28, and an attempt to catch an almost adult one failed every single time - too fast and too smart. I have thoughts of somehow building a contraption with a real fishing net and what not.

In summary, I guess I have lots of "mental" issues

GFG - Good to see you back, you have to hang around some more. How is it going with you? I also loved the article, I am not sure though if I want to show it to my wife as it may frighten her of the things to come

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Bensaf,
Thanks for the acknowledgement. I had not seen the Tom Barr piece, but I knew I was on to something.

It's not possible to have enough plant mass to make the difference.
Do you mean, possibility depending on the organic input?

To me and let's be honest. "Planted tanks and fish lovers don't mix" What I mean is someone like LF (great guy by the way) is fairly new to the hobby and loves his fish, also loves his plants, but that's a big part of the issue. I would say if LF has 100 espei in the tank, plus rainbows, plus pearls. Each rainbow is probably like 10 espei same for the pearls, so we ar talking 150 fish or so. That's a lot of s***! Oh I forgot the otos they s*** too!
You got so much s*** floating around. Now, look up it's 386 watts, break out the SPF 80. See what I mean the two don't mix. I always go back to nature. Think of how vast the oceans and lakes are. Do you see 150 fish every 5 feet. It's an unbalanced closed system. Yes I know you do a 50% wc every week, but believe it or not, it's not enough based on your system. If you add another filter, wet/dry or increase water change to twice/weekly it would probably make a difference.

Look at saltwater tanks that require protein skimming, sumps in a desperate attempt to balance out the organic load, etc.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Look at saltwater tanks ...
Friends of the Planted Tanks - get your vaccinations, have your tubes tied, get a vasectomy - anything that can be done to stop this Dark Side stuff from invading the peaceful planted community

Well, it is only around 70 Espei, but I get the point tetratech

Are you basically implying that changing light duration, supercharging ferts, upping CO2, increasing plant mass, and what not will all not help as I simply have too many fish? What about Amano's 500 Cardinals in a 29G with minmal plant mass - all just show and for one day only?

It certainly would disillusion me that if after all this back and forth about what may not be right in my tank, and all these replants, the conclusion would be that I cannot have this fish load and a high tech planted tank

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Friends of the Planted Tanks - get your vaccinations, have your tubes tied, get a vasectomy - anything that can be done to stop this Dark Side stuff from invading the peaceful planted community



Look these are gut feelings I have. I haven't conducted scientific experiments but I do feel strongly about the relationship between waste/biofilter/light. Those other things (stablity, plant mass, not uprooting, EI) all have to be there).

I believe if you are going to continue to use high light then the water has to be cleaner. So less fish or more water changes / maintenance. Doesn't it seem kinda romote now that it's too much no3 or p04 that is causing problems.

I've said this before 3.1 wpg on your tank is like 6/7 watts on a 29g. Why don't you try semi-weekly water changes or 70% wc once a week, plus keep adding plant mass.

BTW: More fish the more you probably feed. You don't need to feed your fish everyday. I routinely don't feed once sometimes twice a week.


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You don't need to feed your fish everyday
Almost by chance, I started this earlier this week. I don't think it will make a difference yet, but we will see. Also, based on an advice you gave me earlier, I decided to reduce the amount of food per feeding and I am doing so since 2 weeks .

Oh, BTW - tonight I will be part of that Planted Tank round table discussion at my LFS. It will be interesting to see what these folks have to say in general. I may encounter a big resistance when I mention things like EI, 30++ppm of CO2, 20ppm N, and what not

Thanks tetratech,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 17:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I may encounter a big resistance when I mention things like EI, 30++ppm of CO2, 20ppm N, and what not


Yea, especially when there's some algae in your tank. It's a lot easier if the tank is spotless. But hey, they'll come around...I did....sorta.

I'm not going to press the light issue anymore, but I think that you can do fine with that many fish. It's a big tank with adequate filtration. Of course removing a few fish and increasing filtration couldn't hurt.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 19:52Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah Matty,

I guess you are right, one cannot make a strong stand when there are issues . But I will use Bensaf and tetratech as perfect examples how EI can be used with success .

So you find my filtration just adequate? I haven't thought about that as I see a rather strong current, on top from left to right and on the bottom the other way. I figured that this (and 6 liters of filter media) should be more than adequate.

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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 19:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I will quote a line from my one of my favorite movies:
"The time for half measures and talk is over"

EI - Yes it works, your plants are growing. Remember it's estimative and for the most part your plants are growing fine. Something is out of wack and it's not the fert dosing. Yes, I'm sure the uprooting is a problem with getting too much waste in the column, but do you want a tank that you have to be so afraid to touch. You must bring the tank into a more centered place. Where you have some degree of wiggle room. More plants, less fish, more biofilter (if possible), more water changes/gravel wash and possibilly less light. Pick and choose. You might not be able to sustain the tank you have without doing one or more of the above. Don't take my word for it, look at the tank. Sometimes you have to pick and choose. Remember "You can't be all things to all fish and plants"




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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 21:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Well let's assume for a minute we're onto something with the organic loading vs. bacteria ability to break it down.
Logically we have 2 options - either reduce the organics going in OR increase the amount of bacteria to enable a heavier loading.

If we rule out reducing the fish load for the moment that just leaves the bacteria. How to handle ? Well what exactly is in that 9 litres of filter media - are we talking flosses/sponges or bio balls, efisubstrat etc ?
Maybe by increasing the quantity of biological filtration over mechanical filtration would help ?

One thing I've noticed on the big planted tanks here - they all have huge amounts of bio filtration !!! Most all the big tanks I've seen here have bulit in compartments, usually built into the rear left corner, the filter outlet is fed into this compartment which is full of nothing but bio balls and this is in addition to whatever is in the filter itself.

All these tanks were very clean and algae free - I just never made the connection to the huge amount of bio balls before.

I also remember talking to one local shop owner who had some amazing planted show tanks, lots of slow growers Ferns, Anubias , Bolbitis - perfect health and spotless. I was particularly impressed by his narrow leaf fern - the cleanest,freshest most brightest green I'd ever seen. I asked him what he did to keep it that good looking. His reply - "clean water" !!!!! Not nutrients or light (he had a good bit of light BTW) just "clean water".

Food for thought.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Apr-2006 03:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Bensaf,
I couldn't agree more and I don't think we are just blowing smoke toward LF's direction.

If he had 3 cardinals swimming around I don't think we are having this conversation.

What does algae feed off of, waste and light, right. LF has plenty of both and with his light levels that water better be clean.

Get your sabre out, because I'm going to bring up the darkside. Did you ever see the bioballs in some of those tanks. There is a massive amount of surface area to colonize bacteria in those sumps, becuase the water has to be really clean. Dirty water and high light is the breeding ground for algae.

It's interesting I tested my water tonite for the hell of it and from what I could tell I have 10ppm no3, 5ppm po4. That makes sense to me because I've been easing up on my no3 and increasing po4 to get the red in. The reason I mention it is that I've had these numbers as high as 20 to 25no3 and 1ppm po4 and even with these changes I'm still not getting any algae. It really is an estimative index as long as your tank is balanced somewhat between fish load, plants, light. Another thing too that shouldn't be overlooked and I did mention it before is that with a heavy fish load it get's even worse because people are feeding more to make sure they all get some. LF said he just started to ease up on feeding so maybe that will help as well. I would love to be a "fly on the wall" at his planted tank meeting.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks guys for the input

Just to clear that up, I have 4 liters of ehfisubstrat in my filter and 1 liter of ehfimech.

Overall, I think our discussion regarding my algae issue is heading towards Doomsday . It isn't all that bad, guys. Yes, it is annoying and in particular with the occurence of the BBA not very sightly, but I have seen tanks in worse shape.

You are right, I may have too many fishies, at least when looking at recommendations that state that heavy fish loads are dangerous for planted tanks (of this kind) as they narrow the marign for error even more. But, I think that me messing big time with the tank twice in just a few weeks, plus running out of CO2 during vacation may have just been enough to get outside of this margin and the algae is the result. Maybe, just maybe, creating some stability in the tank will enable to get me back within this margin.

For what it is worth, the green thread algae patch that is pictured on the branch (surrounded by BBA) has almost completely dissapeard. I saw it decline over the last 4 days.

I think the one thing I would like to work on as soon as I can is to find a solution on how to avoid that so much CO2 is bypassing the spray bar. Even if that may have no impact on the algae, right now I feel like I am wasting CO2 and a more efficient means of keeping it in the water can help extend my bottle life.

Anyway: The round table discussion last night was fine, there were about 10-12 people on all levels, some of which just started in the planted tank hobby and others that are doing it for a long time.

You know how it is when one talks about plants and stuff, there is barely any time to cover a particular topic in depth. So we pretty much went over loads of detailed topics, like CO2, Nutrients, Plants, Tanks, Substrate, and what not. There wasn't much new that I learned there, as I said we really didn't have the time to go into details. There seemed to have been a rather strong resistance against Tom Barr, but all add CO2, have high nutrient values, and do large water changes - that for me is EI. Maybe some day I can chat with them some more and find out where they may differ from his method.

At least two of the experts are also members of the North New Jersey Aquarium Society, nice folks with humor and insight, and I am consideing going to one of their meetings. I have been thinking about this before, but knowing people that are members makes it easier than showing up and knowing nobody.

Well, this was a long post. I hope I didn't bore you to death,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 20-Apr-2006 14:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
"Wasting CO2" can be a problem with using diffusers. As
we all know, with CO2, the longer the gas is in contact
with the water, the more is absorbed into the water.
By using the smallest possible bubble and keeping it
circulating in the water not reaching the surface is the
only way to do that. They are, after all, just bubbles.

So we use the smallest possible bubble, and in some cases
even create currents in the tank just to keep the bubbles
waterborne. Still they reach the surface.

Reactors, on the other hand don't allow that to happen.
The external ones, with a pump, are the best in that you
don't have to look at them when you look into the tank.
The inside ones with the motor and sponge are very
efficient as well. With a reactor, if your gas bubbles
get out of the reactor, you are injecting too much gas
and instead of circulating inside the reactor it is
escaping. You just need to back down on the rate of
injection.

I suspect, that with reactors, as with diffusers, a
given one can only do so much.
I suspect if one working properly is not increasing
the CO2 saturation enough and you are injecting to
where some of the gas is escaping out of the reactor,
you should add a second. But then I don't
have a tank measuring in the hundreds of gallons.

Just an observation?

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 20-Apr-2006 15:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Overall, I think our discussion regarding my algae issue is heading towards Doomsday


Why do you say that? In any case sounds like your in the right place, mentally anyway. All these things: biofilter, organic control, can only help, increase plants, biofilter, feed less (with those baby espei) you could probably feed twice a week and be fine. I bet the food has alot to do with the organics problem. Not only is uneaten food in the tank but obviously the poop more too.
Remember I said when I stir things up in my tank I get very little gunk. I really don't feed alot. If you start doing all these things and your plant mass increases I bet your algae problems are history.

As far as the spraybar. Just angle the diffusor alittle bit toward the inside of the tank so the bubbles don't climb up the glass inbetween the diffusor. All I could tell you is I've never had more pearling than I have gotten since using the glass diffusor. Even in the event that some bubbles are wasted the method is much more effective for the plants. Co2 is pretty cheap. What $10 bucks every 6 months, so turn it up if you have to. My ph has been riding 6.0 lately with a kh of 2, so I have to be careful. So far fish look fine and plants look great.

Here's a pic of my diffusor / spraybar:







Attached Image:


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tetratech
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And here's a pearling shot from last nite:



Attached Image:


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EditedEdited by tetratech
And another:

I'ts funny you really get to know your tank after a while, every plant in my tank was pearling last nite, except the riccia, why? Because the aromatica has reached the top of the tank and the riccia is completely shaded. I've noticed the bushiness has stopped on it so if I do nothing, I'll probably get some bba from the slowed growth, but one I clip the aromatica it will come back good as new.

BTW: Check out the size od the wisteria leave behind the rotala

Attached Image:


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Frank and tetratech,

Thanks for the input

I am basically pretty happy with the job the diffuser is doing. I have at least the same CO2 levels then I had before (with the reactor at same bubble rate), probably even more as I raised the KH by about 1dH (to maybe 4.5, previously I raised it only to maybe 3 to 3.5) and have the same end-day ph of about 6.6. I just don't like the trip to get a new filled bottle and wouldn't mind stretching it out some more. As such - the idea is to make sure all bubbles stay in the tank for longer. And it is over $20 here in NJ for a replacement bottle .

I will try the angle method, although I am not too optimistic about it as most bubbles that escape are actually in front of the spray bar. I asume that my diffuser is not even a good quality as a good half of the bubbles are rather large and the diffusion section on the ceramic plate is still only in one small part of it. Oh - how do I clean that sucker again?

Why do you say that?
Because I got the impression that the conclusion to my algae situation would be that I have to lower the fish load, otherwise I would be doomed to fields of algae forever. Maybe I misinterpreted the recent statements from my FP friends in this log.

Ingo

PS: tetratech, nice shots After seeing only the first picture I was already getting ready to state that a haircut may be needed, but then you mentioned it yourself


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Post InfoPosted 20-Apr-2006 16:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I will try the angle method, although I am not too optimistic about it as most bubbles that escape are actually in front of the spray bar. I asume that my diffuser is not even a good quality as a good half of the bubbles are rather large and the diffusion section on the ceramic plate is still only in one small part of it. Oh - how do I clean that sucker again?

My problem was some was going between the glass and diffusor thus the angle. LF we are splitting hairs here. Measure your co2 tonite before lights out and see where you are. Diffusor, reactor, inline they all work, I do believe the diffusor methods creates more pearling. For the longest time my plants didn't pearl but their growth was beautiful. Let's move on:

BTW - Clean the diffusor with 1/3 bleach / water. Rinse with prime after that and put back in.

Because I got the impression that the conclusion to my algae situation would be that I have to lower the fish load, otherwise I would be doomed to fields of algae forever. Maybe I misinterpreted the recent statements from my FP friends in this log

I think you could have your fish, but if you want that type of load you might have to go over-the-top on maintenance. More biofilter, more plants, less feeding, mabye semiweekly gravelwash and waterchanges. Some tanks require less maintenance, all plants and like no fish, you know those tanks where you don't even need a filter. So it all depends what you want and where you tank fits in.

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Post InfoPosted 20-Apr-2006 17:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Oh - how do I clean that sucker again?

LF,
Bensaf is going to be mad at you!!

Basicly I do a 50/50 bleach/water bath for about 10 to 15 minuts. After that I rince the bugger like crazy for a while. Then I give it a second heavy bath in cheap water conditioner for another few minutes. Then a quick tap water rince and back in the tank.

I really think that tetra and ben are on to something with the fish load/bio filter thing. We really tend to over stock our tanks compared to the number of fish per area in the wild. To make this really work then you are going to have to up your bio filter. Things like sumps a quite cool because they add that much more water/bio area to your system.

What if one were to make a PVC add on to your canister like what Matt did for his CO2? Just fill the thing with bio balls or something. This would add more bio filter area and not cause issues like surface disterbance like a sump would.

I might just have to mess around with that when I move and have to mess with things anyways. I am already thinking of having the tank coming out from the wall at a 90 degree thus it would be viewable from three sides.

(sorry to get rambling....)

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Post InfoPosted 20-Apr-2006 17:30Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Lucky wings gave a reminder how to clean the diffuser. I swore I wasn't going to it again

Tetra has 5ppm of P and no algae. Another nail in the coffin of the "P causes algae" myth

Don't worry about the bubbles from the diffuser. Part of the reason why diffusers lost out to reactors in popularity in the past was the "wasted gas" myth, btw the have you noticed how this hobby has more myth then even the ancient Greeks had ??

Most of the bubbles that reach the top are no longer co2 anyway, it's dissolved and exchanged with oxygen.

Nobody could understand why Amano was using those "inefficient" diffusers for years and refused to use a reactor. Heck, he even places his halfway up the tank, so I guess he's not worried about the bubbles "escaping".

Important thing is how much Co2 in the water. If the levels are good then the diffuser is doing it's job.

Good to see the algae is receding. Maybe the stability is helping. Either way an excellent omen. Just keep things steady !

The biggest hurdle most have with EI is the whole "excess" thing. Most think they can fine tune and micro-manage the nutrients. Cool if they can and they have the time for a lot of testing and monitoring. Me, I'd rather spoon the stuff in and then kick back with a smoke and a cup 'o joe and enjoy the tank. But basically , whether you use EI, PPS, Amano products or any other method, they all boil down to the same thing - getting the nutrients in the tank in sufficient quantity for the plants. They just differ slightly in how they add them. All the good methods focus on plants and don't devote any attention to algae. As tetra as mentioned before Amano fully expects algae and apart from adding abiot of specialist livestock to eat it, pretty much ignores it and keeps focused on the plants.



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Post InfoPosted 21-Apr-2006 03:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Lucky wings gave a reminder how to clean the diffuser. I swore I wasn't going to it again


As much as LF has been there for me I didn't want to see ben pull out his lightsaber and get him.

So just to make you guys laugh a little.... I dropped my phone in a creek while trout fishing tonight...the lady wasn't very happy.... this was number two!

EI question: I have been doing 1/2 tsp of pot. Nitrate in my 40G 3 times a week. I did a couple of test this week and I am coming up with 0 ppm each test. Doest this mean my plants are sucking the stuff right up? If so should I up it a little? I have noticed a little bit of green spot on my A. Nana. Everything else is rocking though.

Sorry I am off subject and log hacking.





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Post InfoPosted 21-Apr-2006 04:13Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I dropped my phone in a creek while trout fishing tonight...

I once dropped mine in the toilet bowl while having a pee Fished it out I let it dry out. Of course I needed a new cell. There's alot of big markets here that only deal in cell phones. Took the old one with me to trade in and get a few bucks off a new one. All going well until the store guy decides to remove the antenna compartment to check it. Puzzled look on his faces as he notices the rust ! He's not sure what it is so he deides to sniff it The look of sheer of disgust and horror on his face was priceless

EI question: I have been doing 1/2 tsp of pot. Nitrate in my 40G 3 times a week. I did a couple of test this week and I am coming up with 0 ppm each test. Doest this mean my plants are sucking the stuff right up?


No it means your test kit is rubbish !

That's a lot of KNO3 to be adding to a 40gal. No way the plants are sucking it all up. Dodgy kit.

Plants showing any signs of N deficiency ? Trust them more then the kit.


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Post InfoPosted 21-Apr-2006 10:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well thanks to Wings then, otherwise the secret of how to clean a diffuser would have been lost forever

But, I have to dig deeper into the cleaning ritual. Given that the diffuser is full of water (oh, BTW, there is some white substance forming on the inside bottom of mine) I would assume that you don't empty it first before you clean it. Given that, I further assume that it is unavoidable that some bleach will be mixed in with the water inside the diffuser. Now, after putting it in a Prime bath, can one be sure that this bleach is neutralized?

Yeah Bensaf, let's try the stability theorem first. I always have time later to reduce fish count, black-outs, poison, and what not . At least I can try to give nature a chance.

Wings, I agree with Bensaf, your N addition should be fine. Your tank is pretty much 1/3 of mine, and I add 3 times the N than you do. And I get healthy N readings.

Bensaf - I guess I shouldn't buy used objects from you

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Apr-2006 11:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah the plants are looking just fine. Growing like weeds. Maybe I should test another tank to see what happens....

Yeah I think you topped my cell phone story BTW ben. Phone report this morning is all is fine and dandy!

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Post InfoPosted 21-Apr-2006 14:01Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
No it means your test kit is rubbish !

I say class action against the makers of test kits for emotional duress.

I was putting in about that in my 72 for the longest time. Recently I have moved up to around 5/8 to 3/4 and my tank is almost twice the size of yours Wings and I still show good ranges of no3 (Then again it's based on a test kit)

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Post InfoPosted 21-Apr-2006 18:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I keep saying that it is entirely simple to test if your kit is bunk or not. Just test it against a known concentration. make up a gallon of water and put in according to Chucks calculator, the amount that would be 10ppm or 20ppm(whatever you want in your tank). Mix well, and test. From then on that is what you want in your tank. Obviously if it doesn't register anything throw out your kit. Or call up the company and they will likely send out a new one or something. Most companies aren't out to rip you off.

I only tested until I figured the right amount of nutrients to put in the tank every other day to keep the levels I want. Now I only test once a month before the water change. Things have always looked good, and worked out well logically too. Test kits are a good tool if you use them right.



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Post InfoPosted 21-Apr-2006 19:36Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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But, I have to dig deeper into the cleaning ritual. Given that the diffuser is full of water (oh, BTW, there is some white substance forming on the inside bottom of mine) I would assume that you don't empty it first before you clean it. Given that, I further assume that it is unavoidable that some bleach will be mixed in with the water inside the diffuser. Now, after putting it in a Prime bath, can one be sure that this bleach is neutralized?


Over thinking alert.Over thinking alert.Over thinking alert.

Yes don't empty it. It'll be fine. Being doing this for months now, no problems.

If you assume the bleach will get into the water in the diffuser then you also have to assume the Prime will also.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 03:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Over thinking alert
You have no idea, here comes over thinking:

"If you assume the bleach will get into the water in the diffuser then you also have to assume the Prime will also." - But Prime and Bleach have different consistencies and maybe bleach is smoother and more of it would enter the diffuser than Prime can eliminate .



Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 15:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So Prime the crap out of it!

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks Wings, more to this in a few posts, but now:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 30

This week was marked more by talk than by action . Endless discussions on what should be done to reduce my algae ended with me deciding to maintain the status quo and see where the tank will go from here. Rushed action taken in the past never gave the tank time to settle, I think this approach is worth a try. I also believe to see the first improvements, although it may be wishful thinking.

So, on to the photos: There will be only 2 full shots of the full tank as there are quite a few details of fish and plants, in particular fish, that I would like to share.

Here is the tank last weekend after the water change:

Attached Image:



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And here is the tank now this weekend, after the water change. As you can see, the Star Grass grows as strong as usual. It seems that a bi-weekly replant is becoming the norm for this group. based on tetratech's bad experience with simply trimming off the top of his Star Grass (a long time ago) I decided to always replant by cutting the bottoms out.

No major trimming has been performed this weekend, only a few dying leaves of the remaining Helferi plants have been pinched off. I guess next week I will also hae to trim the Alternanthera on the right:

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Week 30 - Today



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Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 23:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is a picture of the glass diffuser before I cleaned it. As you may be able to see, the top of the ceramic plate is pretty green. Cleaning was based on the given info by Wings and tetratech, combined with the approval of Bensaf, a breeze. All looks very clean now and no fish died (so far) of bleach poisoning .

I also followed tetratech's example and angled the diffuser slightly by removing the bottom sucktion cup. The week will show if it makes a difference, but it looks like a little more of the bubbles are washed into the current.

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Diffuser



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Here is an interesting picture that shows one thing, algae on decline. I cannot identify why the algae is reciding in this spot as it may have to do with the fact that I dripped Excel over it during last weeks water change.

Algae in the rest of the tank is at least not further increasing.

Photo: left was last week, right is now:

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Yeah Baby



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Now on to a few detail shots. Again tetratech served as an inspiration (I hope you see it this way as well tetratech, and don't brand me a copy cat ) and so I climbed on a chair and took some top shots of the tank.

Given the size of my tank it is impossible to cover it all, not even front to back fits in one picture. I guess I will have to remove a piece of the floor on the first floor so I can look straight down to the tank in the basement and make a full shot .

Anyway, here is the left side - front area - of the tank from the birds-eye view. From left to right, you see:

- A red Wendtii with Pearl Grass in front of it
- One small stem of Wisteria
- An open field with crypt Wendtii (small ones that never took off in the tank within the last 30 weeks), Lucens, and Lutea.
- On the right back is an Anubias leave and in the front the end of the big driftwood:


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Left Top View



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Here is the middle section of the tank.

All across the picture is the wood and one can also see the rock that holds it down.

Plants in the picture are:

Narrow Leaf Java Fern with Anubias Nana Petite in front of it, a Red Wendtii, some dwarf sags, and Pearl Grass.

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Middle from Top



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Here is the right corner of the tank from above.

On the left side you can see the remaining tiny group of Glosso that slowly starts to settle again. Behind it is a row of 3 Isoetes Lacustris. All ovehanging leaves are from Helferi, Crypt Retrospiralis, and the rather new Hygrophila augustifolia. The right corner in itself is filled with Pearl Grass (can you tell I really like that plant? ), with a small stem of Wisteria to the left of it.

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Right Corner from Top



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Well I'm glad alage didn't dominate your posts today. Just let the plants grow and I'll withhold and scaping comments for a few weeks. I'm confident your put this algae thing behind you soon.

Yeah I like the overhead shots it gives a different prospective on the tank and it's interesting to see what's going on. The wisteria looks very clean and healthy so that should spread quickly and help out.

Did your diffusor come with those suction cups? I only have mine attache by the tubing and it keeps breaking away.

BTW - How come you haven't put the apistos in yet?

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On to some fish pictures

You guys and gals have to let me know when you have enough of seeing the same fish over and over again as I just like to look at them.

Here is a shot of 2 male Rainbows, unfortunately I couldn't get both with their full bodies in the shot.

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Male Dwarf Rainbows



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Here is a nice one where the Pearls seem to follow the lead of the Rainbow.

Where they are going though is beyond me

Maybe you remember some older shots of the male Pearl, but I can tell that he is becoming a grown-up. His finnage is getting longer and his throat more and more orange-yellow. He also likes the company of the female more than he did in the past:

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Pearls and Rainbow



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Now there will be two shots of the Apisto Pair. I assume that I will add them during this week to the tank, I am in no rush though. They also have truely bonded and I am sure that they would breed under the right conditions. Unfortunately I don't think that the 125 will be able to provide these conditions - too many fish

Here is a shot that displays the difference in size between the male and female

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Apisto Pair I



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And here is the second shot of the pair. This time the female is either telling her man to stay away or she shows him how pretty she is. I cannot tell which one is the case as we males misinterpret female signs by definition

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Apisto Pair II



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Last but not least, a good old Oto picture. Today I saw 5 of them (I have 6) for the first time in at least 3 weeks at the same time. With these guys you never know how many are still alive.

Here is one munching away on algae on my big piece of driftwood, just beautiful:

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Hungry Oto



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
I'll withhold and scaping comments for a few weeks
Thanks tetratech

Sorry, only now when reviewing my entries did I see your entry. I hope you are right about the algae issue being behind me at some point.

The Wisteria in the top shots are small cut off pieces from the 20G, the ones that I bought at the store a little over a week ago are further in the back as they are taller already.

The suction cups did not come with the diffuser. They are standard air hose cups and barely fit around the diffuser pipe. I also had the diffuser break away from the cups. If you look closely at the picture then you may see that I locked the bottom cup with a rubber band to the pipe, that seems to work. This cup is now on top of the pipe so the bottom can lean against the glass and angle the unit for a better of bubbles in the spray bar current.

The Apistos will most likely be added this week, I am not in a rush with that as they are doing just great in the QT and I am not sure if I would like to add more fish any time soon. Although, 8 Cories may be nice

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Apr-2006 00:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So Excel works great with a dirct hit to the algae. I found that out at work too!

That algae in the oto picture is nice looking stuff! You grow it very well I must say!

If you look at tetra's over head pictures compared to your what do you see? Way more plant mass in tetra's tank. I think that is probably his biggest differnce compared to your tank.

Want me to mail you so Sunset Hygro? I have a tank full it floating right now. Grows like weed!

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Post InfoPosted 23-Apr-2006 01:10Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Ingo

I love your pics. I especially love the Apisto Pair.
they should breed under the right conditions. Unfortunately I don't think that the 125 will be able to provide these conditions - too many fish
That might be right. I have on order 2 pelvicachromis taeniatus Moliwe, which I was told are a rarer cousin of the krib (at least in Oz). They are still on their way to Oz. They had to be preordered & bought as a pair. I was told not to add them to my community tank, as the goal should be breeding and that a community tank will be too busy for success. You know I'm inexperienced, so I don't know if LFS is right or not, but LFS said they should be in a tank with only a few dither fish to give them confidence. My QT will become their home. I will still have another small QT (you might remember my thread about that). My community tank is almost stocked (only ottos to go). Therefore, I shouldn't need a big QT any more. I'm looking forward to seeing if I can breed them.

Cheers
TW
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Robyn and Wings,

I know we had talked about other stuff before, and I hope you remember the details, as I forgot. But I think it was mostly about your Krib cousins, Robyn.

So I have a new question: Do you folks think it would be advisable to prepare some form of case, like flower pot or something, before I add the Apistos to the main tank? If so, I guess less current in that area would be better and as such it should be on the right side of the tank, right?

Ingo


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Something you might want to try is sticking a flower pot in there but hide it under a bunch of rocks and plants. That way they have there hide out and you have more of a mound.

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and then cover that with anubias, java moss, or fern so you don't lose any of your plant mass.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 04:48Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ingo, I think some posts have disappeared - you gave me some good articles & links about those krib cousins.

Re: the flower pot. That's what I've read I should put in for my P.taeniatus Moliwe. Suggestions are to invert the flower pot, but firstly enlarge the water outlet hole to be just large enough for the female to enter.

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Thanks guys, and gal, for the input
Suggestions are to invert the flower pot
Invert as in upside-down? I don't think I am going to do that. My tank and its inhabitants are way too much of a gunk producing machine and I believe the living conditions inside that pot would deteriorate rather quickly. Instead I intend to (if I use a pot) place it sideways, about half of it buried in the gravel. Also the pot should not be too deep. Enlarging the hole is a good idea though, I read some posts here (a long time ago) referring to fish that got stuck in these holes.

The next thought would have to be the exact position, meaning - where can I place this cave so that it can be covered with plants (as Matty said) without sticking out too much and at the same time allow me to look into the pot so I can see if there is anything moving in there? I still assume it would have to be on the right side, far away from the filter intake and in calmer waters. I will see what I can do.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Instead I intend to (if I use a pot) place it sideways, about half of it buried in the gravel

A clay pot in planted aquaria

Guess I now know the difference between planted aquaria and aquascaping.

Cichlid Central

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Cichlid Central


Well, I was using the clay pot more as a visual guide to a structure that is yet to be defined, if that makes any sense .

Conceptually, I believe that I would need something that has walls and a top, basically a clay pot (and no, I didn't yet "borrow" a pot from my wife for the tank and neither did I buy one).

Is that more scape like, tetratech?

Ingo


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Here is another idea for you. Get the pot and silicon your gravel to it. Then suround it by other rocks and cover them with plants as Matt said. This might help it fit in more.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 14:42Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
What do cichlids do in nature? Do they use clay pots that old ladies threw in the lake after their flowers die. Arrange something more nature or do what Wings said. If I see a clay pot on it's side in the aquascaping or planted aquaria forums I'm going to insist that the mods move all your stuff to Cichlid Central

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Well, I don't think LF wants rotting leaf litter on the bottom of his tank, so that throws out the "do it like nature" idea

I think the clay pot can be pulled off pretty easily and effectively. Ya can't just leave it sticking up in the middle of the scape, that would look ugly. But if you lay it on its side with the mouth pointing towards the front of the tank or whichever area you want to view it from, and then bury half of it under the gravel so that only a "half moon" is sticking out of the bottom that should work. Cover it with moss or let Wisteria grow in around it. It'll be invisible in no time.

Or just let them find their own spot, which may happen anyway


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Well, I don't think LF wants rotting leaf litter on the bottom of his tank

Sounds good to me

There are many rocks you could use to create a honeymoon suite! Wisteria and clay pots. Talk about your "Weed Garden"



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tetratech
Or just let them find their own spot, which may happen anyway
Which brings me back to the original question, which was like "do you think it is advisable to add a cave" (I wrote case, but that is what I meant)

So I guess in the interest of not having my thread moved to Cichlid Central, and in the interest not to upset my AquaScaping friends, I may just let them find their own territory.

In any way, what would be the chances of survival for any fry in this fish-invested tank ? Being really slow growers they run too many risks, being eaten, sucked into the filter, sucked into the drain during water change, and what not.

Ingo


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If they're first time spawners it's likely that the parents will eat the fry before the other fish get a chance to.

After a couple swawns they may get the hang of parenting and a few might make it, but it's a crap shoot.

I am of the opinion that when fish start breeding in a community tank it's best to just let nature take its course and work from there. If they spawn and none make it, be happy that WC is good enough for them to spawn. If a few make it, you have some nice additions to your tank or some nice fish to sell. If you really want to breed them and raise the fry then a seperate tank would be best


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So I guess in the interest of not having my thread moved to Cichlid Central, and in the interest not to upset my AquaScaping friends, I may just let them find their own territory

Well I certainly appreciate that. I was about to direct you a site that sells underwater neon lights and those little divers that circle around the tank with an airline tube attached.

Hard to say if any wil survive. To be honest I think my rams might have given up after three attempts. Unless they are laying eggs in one of the seven layers of wisteria.
You could always cover the intake with a netting to help out. It also depends if your espei turn into little piranhas like my cardinals do when the see fry.


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I was about to direct you a site that sells underwater neon lights and those little divers that circle around the tank with an airline tube attached.



Oh goodie, yeah - I need that link. Are the neon lights blinking and moving around like a lighthouse beam? "Burn baby burn, disco inferno"



Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 16:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah the ones that burn the fish retinas so they spaz out and people think they are "dancing".

I honestly don't think hiding a clay pot or other such formation would be very hard in a 125 tank. The pot or similar structure wouldn't have to be very big, just enough for them to fit into. It would easily dissapear into whatever aquascape you wanted. Add some plant mass to the structure and it can even be mostly buried. I would think that it would be less bulky and eyecatching than a "natural" formation to make a cave.

That's all assuming that they could even find whatever you put in there for them. I'm not sure that apisto territories are as large as a 125.



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A good alternative to a flowerpot is a more natural looking ceramic cave like the ones they have at www.cichlidbreeding.com. I just bought a bunch of them for an African tank, and they really do look quite natural underwater, and could just as easily be hidden by plants and hardscape. You could even dispurse several of them throughout the tank so that they would have more choice of territories.

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...
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Yeah the ones that burn the fish retinas so they spaz out and people think they are "dancing".


They really aren't dancing to the disco lights? Dang it! I guess its time to get that out of my tank. I have been hiding it from you guys behind my "thing".

Just remember LF this is your tank. You do what you want. I if you want to try to hide a pot then go for it. If you want it to have flowers coming out of it like a old lady through it in the river then have flowers coming out of it. Just make sure to use the old faded plastic ones.

But really... I don't think it would hurt anything to put in some "breeding" structure. They may or may not use it or even want to breed. Who knows really....

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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 19:48Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF already said he will "let nature take it's course" and not taint the courtship with an 1-800-FLOWERS BOUQUET.

If you guys had your way he'd end up removing everything and have a bare bottom breeders tank with a bunch of knocked over flower pots.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
illustrae - thank you so much, that is a nice link. Some of these structures look kind of weird, but the first one of the Breeding Cave section would be suitable, I think.

Wings - you are right, it is my tank. But I value your (your as in all FP members) input. If it wouldn't have been for you folks my tank would for sure not look like it does now. Come to think of it, maybe that would have been a good thing

Ingo

EDIT: Didn't see tetratech's input until I finished mine, so tetratech -


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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 20:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Well, everyone got very excited about the flowerpot thing.

I guess I'm still going to do it, but it won't be in my planted community tank, but in a separate dedicated tank for my P.Taeniatus Moliwe. I've found myself some aquarium safe clear silicone & I'm going to attach gravel in & outside of it & then tie some java moss to it. Or I might look around for a natural looking ornament cave that I can also hide with bunch of java moss tied to it.

I hope it won't be too much of an eyesore, but the main goal of this separate tank will be for my P.Taeniatus Moliwe to breed.

That should mean my 43.G log, without the contamination of a disguised flowerpot, should be allowed to stay in the planted forum.

Cheers
TW
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i think you should get a large peice of wood and drill it out to create holes and caves of the right size , very easy to do and you can have small openings with large caves behind them. also another good place to look for realistic looking rock caves is in the reptile section at lfs , my lfs lets me look through all the supplier catalogues at my leisure and the available range is huge.



cheers dan

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dan,

Nice idea with the drill wood idea. I like it!

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 03:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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What do cichlids do in nature? Do they use clay pots that old ladies threw in the lake after their flowers die.




Do I need to say anything ? Sure you already know my opinion on having a claypot in there.

I do like the neon lights idea though And a disco ball


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 03:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks all for the input

Robyn - quickly to your cave vision: I would not glue anything on the inside. What would that be good for? I would assume that the fish would rather lay their eggs on a flat surface.

Dan - I know you are the handyman and I have had the pleasure to see quite a few of your tank constructions (mattenfilter and tank background). I - on the other hand - do not only not have the tools but also don't really enjoy making things myself (as I know that someone in my house is breathing down my neck for any extra time that I spend on this hobby).

Bensaf - You made the 2000th post in this log. Sure not as spectacular than the number 1000 was, but still special.

I would like to use this chance to thank all people that have contributed in one way or another to not only drive this log but also help me to get the tank where it is now. Does that mean I will slow down? No way, I still have miles to go before the tank is done, if ever. Algae will have to be defeated, an aquascape has to be created, more fish need to be added ( - first I have to sell another 30 Espei though), and what not.

Thanks again to all of you,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 11:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dan76
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ingo , when i was at high school i was very inept at practical things , but good at theory, didnt want to go to university so i decided to become a tradesman, best decision ever.
i would encourage everybody to look into it , as manual skills are just something you learn and really do give a feeling of achievement when you can do stuff around the house that looks good and satisfys (sp?) the need .

also in australia trades pay really well at the moment with the skilled labour shortage , i earn just on 6 figures a year for 40 hours a week and get to go home to have smoko and lunch each day . a pretty good wicket for 7 to 330 each day .


if you want work pm me ha ha ha


cheers dan



OH TOLEEDY!
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 12:37Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
dan76
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also dont forget the mattenfilter was a complete failure , 150 dollars aus for foam that doesnt last a month




OH TOLEEDY!
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 12:40Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
What would that be good for?
Ok, I won't do it then. I only thought to do it, in case I don't invert, but instead put it on it's side and in doing so, the inner would be visible. Thought it would be less noticeable if it matched the general substrate, instead of standing out with it's clay pot colour. Maybe I'll look around for some kind of cave ornament/s instead, & completely wrap them in java moss. I like the drilling holes in wood idea too, but don't think I have time to find or soak the wood, before I have to bring the fish home. Most of the articles on the fish I'm getting, including those links you gave me (thanks), talked about greater breeding success using the pots, but none mentioned the gluing bit. Have to decide soon, as my fish have arrived in Oz now & are currently in QT (either with Customs or the LFS - not sure which).

And there'll be no pots or ornaments in my planted tank (just my natural rocks & plants).

Edit - Oh, forgot to say congrats on the 2,000 posts

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 15:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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also dont forget the mattenfilter was a complete failure , 150 dollars aus for foam that doesnt last a month


Hate when that happens!

LF,
2000 post? is that counting the ones lost in action?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 15:27Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks all for the input.

Dan - nah, physical work is nothing for me . At least not anymore. You sure make loads of money, it seems like, althoug 6 figures could be 100,000 or 999,999 Auatralian Dollars .

Robyn - Don't worry about not having a cave in time for your fish to arrive. You can always get it later. Even if you would lose the first batch, there may be many to follow.

Wings - During the site update Adam removed all counts that were based on deleted entries. Also, the posts during down-time this week were also not counted as short threads that had about 6 entries showed 3 afterwards (I don't remember how many posts I lost in this log on that day).


New Topic: Does anyone already have the June TFH magazine? There is an article about Mr. EI himself, Tom Barr. It talks about his annual PlantFest trip and is very informative. There are also two shots that show the man himself, but I have to say he doesn't look like I expected. All shots are from far away and side or back, but he looks like a college kid (hope you see that as a compliment, Tom, if you should ever read my log). Bensaf, he has short hair like us, but he has more of it than we do together .

Just thought I share that,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 17:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Bensaf, he has short hair like us, but he has more of it than we do together

You guys know what each of you look like. Oh I get it, one of those online dating services, right

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 18:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
You guys know what each of you look like.


Hey, we only know what you look like with goggles and snorkel. When do we get to see tetratech's identity?


EDIT: LF, in the article are they critical of the EI method, or is it fairly unbiased. I know there is some opposition to it out there, but what is their take?


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 18:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well how have to warm up to it.

Here's a pic of my pup and my foot:
A little bit of Scotland on Long Island



Attached Image:


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 19:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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What tetratech, you still have snow out there?

Nice foot

NowherMan6, the article doesn't mention EI at all, it is all about Tom's annual trip thing. And if it would have mentioned EI it could not have been unfavorable as someone in the trip is the author (I think) of it .

Ingo

Ah, and you all know that Bensaf's and my picture are public here at FP


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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 19:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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What tetratech, you still have snow out there?

I think it's a nuclear winter. You know from all the L.I. landfills.



My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 19:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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No way there's still snow in LI, except maybe on the very top of all those garbage mountains in the LI landfills.

Cute Collie though...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 20:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Sure glad I just have to live next to the great lakes and not that crazy stuff out east!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 20:34Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
No way there's still snow in LI, except maybe on the very top of all those garbage mountains in the LI landfills

The pic is from earlier in the spring.
Nowher's thanks for the comments on the pup. She's actually a shetland sheepdog (I know looks like a little collie) I think the breed was created by mixing a border collie and pomperian. This way they created a smaller dog that could herd on the ruggered hills of the Shetland Islands.



My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 20:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
tetratech, your pup is sooooo cute

Ah, and you all know that Bensaf's and my picture are public here at FP
Now I'm curious, what does this mean "public here at FP"

Cheers
TW
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NowherMan6
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Tetra, thougt it may have been one of those. Hard to tell when they're laying down, collie's have longer legs. I'm sure your girl has shorter legs.

TW, there is a thread in Recovery Room where many have posted their pictures - Bensaf and LF are amongst those brave enough


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 28-Apr-2006 02:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the pup comments you two.
Yeah Nowher, I knew your probably thought it could be a sheltie. Yes she has short legs about 15" at the hips.

Since LF is going to turn this into Cichlid Central I guess anything goes. How does "Sheepdog Station" sound to you.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 28-Apr-2006 03:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
Nice dog, they call them Shelties in Europe.

That's your foot ? Seriously that is one girly foot It looks like the nails are manicured and polished ! My feet look like they've been beaten with a hammer everyday for the last 20 years !!!!.And they are hairy

It's not that me and LF are brave enough to post our pics, we are simply too good looking to keep the good stuff to ourselves. Got to share and let others enjoy, appreciate and generally bathe in our glory

Yeah, I know what Tom Barr looks like. He is quite young. For some reason people always imagine him as some old guy with a beard He's a pretty normal un-nerdy looking guy. He's into rock and plays the bass. Most of us plant geeks are surprisingly normal in the real world.

Reminds me of a thread on APC for plant geeks to post pictures of themselves. I have to say generally that plant geeks are a fine looking bunch of men. The wife saw it - took her a few days before she finally stopped drooling Hotties apparently. Maybe we should do a plant geek calender ! You know standing around in Calvin Klein undies holding our planting tweezers between our teeth, is that a piece of driftwood in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me kinda thing

OK, I think Robyn had to go lie down.

Don't think too many of them paint their toenails though


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 28-Apr-2006 03:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Last time I checked guy, fish were not sopposed to be fuzzy or fury!

Edit: Wow Ben!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 28-Apr-2006 03:57Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Get that calendar going guys

Be still my quaking heart...... I may be able to stand up again shortly .......

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Apr-2006 05:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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The FP Plant Nerd Calendar 2007 is coming out shortly. Each month features another good looking gentleman showing off his equipment (planted tank equipment ). Some highlights are June featuring Bensaf with his small tweezers, April with Wings and his "Thing", October with tetratch cracking his whip, January with NowherMan6 and his dwarf gouramie, and December with LITTLE_FISH and his retrospiralis.



Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Apr-2006 14:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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LF,

I don't think I have ever laughed so hard!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 28-Apr-2006 14:17Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Let me know when copies are available. My equally nerdy marathon running girlfriends will all want a copy, so naturally, multiple copies will be required.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Apr-2006 16:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Some highlights are June featuring Bensaf with his small tweezers, April with Wings and his "Thing", October with tetratch cracking his whip, January with NowherMan6 and his dwarf gouramie, and December with LITTLE_FISH and his retrospiralis


Not just dwarf gourami - pygmy croaking gourami. That's right, pygmy.

Also, shouldn't April feature Wings and his Giant Hygro instead?


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 28-Apr-2006 17:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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pygmy croaking gourami. That's right, pygmy.


It croaks ? That must be embarassing


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 29-Apr-2006 03:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
jase101
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hello little fish -

i skim thru yr posts every now and again, and may have missed some stuff on yr apistos, but here goes - re: breeding caves...

i breed a. cacatuoides regularly (in a community setup, so there's hardly ever surviving spawn) but i use film cannisters - as in the little black containers you buy film for your camera in. i drill a small hole in the base so water can flow thru (this only needs to be a couple of mm wide,it's not for fish access) and place them on their sides at a 30 degree angle or so, mouth down, surround and weigh them down with some small rocks, sprinkle some gravel over the rocks and bob's your uncle. they are inconspicuous because they're black, small enough for your female apisto's to enter and protect easily, and the male can still fertilise them either by entering if he's small, and as he gets bigger, fanning his milt into the cave. my tank is planted (not as densely as yours) and it used to really annoy me to take up so much ground space with clay pots, and they're ugly, and they are too big IMO for most apisto girls to protect in a community setup. my ale cack is about 3inches long (what a gorgeous beast he is) and his ladies are all half that size - and they all use the film cannisters in preference to the larger pots....

anyway, good luck with whatever you choose to do.
Post InfoPosted 29-Apr-2006 23:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Bensaf -

Jase - Thank you so much for the input, for two reasons. First of all your insight into breeding Apistos is very helpful. It appears that I would be able to add these film canisters at any point in time without having to mess with my aquascape at all, given their size. Secondly, I always like to hear from the people that usually just read (skim) through my log. It shows me that there is a greater audience than the people who normally post (although there is nothing wrong with them either ). Thanks


Well - Weekly Tank Update, Week 31

This week did not see any changes to the tank, no additions and no removals. I maintained my light and fertilizer schedule, also with one day of not feeding the fish. It appears to me as if the algae is slightly on the decline, I may be wrong though and this is only wishful thinking.

The weekly maintenance included quite a bit of trimming, which with the Star Grass is always worrysome as I have to remove them completely and replant the tops. This stirrs up quite a bit of gunk. A few other plants needed trimming as well, for example one major stem of the Alternanthera on the right tank side. Here it is before trimming:

Attached Image:

Alternanthera Growing Out Of Water



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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 11:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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This is a shot from last week, showing that the Star Grass reached the top already in a few spots. This was only one week after it was last trimmed. Without a doubt this plant, given its speed and volume in my tank, is the major nutrient sucker:

Attached Image:

Tank Last Week After Maintenance



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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 11:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Now, this is a shot from yesterday BEFORE the water change and trimming. You can see how well the Star Grass has grown. It became so big that it shaded most plants in front of it, for example the Wisteria and the Crypt Wendtii. Also, the Hygro angustifolia has reached a significant height were large leaves started to float on the surface. Behind it you may make out that stem of Alternanthera:

Attached Image:

Tank This Weekend Before Trimming



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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 12:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a closer look at the middle section of the tank with the Star Grass group before trimming. I have to say that it looks very nice. But just look at the bottom right corner of the shot, there you see how shaded the lower parts of the stems are. These areas receive no light anymore and lower leaves die off, creating lots of gunk for the tank.

Also, do you like the Fish-Autobahn in front of the plants ?

Attached Image:

Star Grass Before Trimming



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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 12:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Now here is a shot from this weekend after trimming. The Star Grass was removed and quite a bit of the bottom were cut off. This should give me about 2 to 3 weeks before the next trimming of it. Also, the tallest stem of the Hygro was cut off and replanted, I cannot afford to lose the fast growers at this time so I stuck the cutting in the middle of the Crypt group to the right of the Star Grass (almost invisible in this shot). It shouldn't be too hard for you folks to see where I placed the Alternanthera top

Attached Image:

Tank After Trimming - This Weekend



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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 12:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is a close-up of the trimmed Alternanthera top. This picture could also be called "The Beauty and the Beast". The nice Alternanthera in contrast to the Thread algae on the driftwood and small amounts of BBA on the Crypt Retrospiralis leaves.

Attached Image:

Alternanthera Close-Up



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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 12:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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This picture shows how I add water back into the tank, which are over 60G, BTW. I used to simply hang the end of the vacuum into the water and let it fill up. This had the problem that with rising water level the vacuum end also changed position (from vertical to almost horizontal), changing the angle at which the water shoots out. This caused various taller plants to be washed around in the fill current and also stirred up some gunk under these plants.

Now I stick the end of the vacuum between the top of my thermometer and the glass of the tank. This way, the vacuum stays in the same position for the whole filling and no gunk is stirred up in the back. Also, and maybe even more importantly, I get the best reading of the temperature of the added water as it streams right by the thermometer.

Attached Image:

Refill Trick



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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 12:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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All I have left to show for now are two shots of the Espei school. In this one you can see that one of the fishies seemed to show an interest of what is going on in front of the tank. All others do what they always do, swim from left to right and back . Actually rather often than not they just hang in the current and wait until something eatable is coming their way, lazy gang.

Attached Image:

Espei On The Run



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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 12:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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This is a similar shot than the last one. The main exception is that there is a Dwarf Rainbow regulating the traffic on the Autobahn. Or maybe she wants to cross but cannot find the gap in the rush hour traffic. Can you find her?

BTW, by now I am rather convinced that the loss of my duck weed can be attributed to the appetite of my fishies. I must have reduced its size too much and the remainer was not enough to outpace the speed by which they were eaten. I now see in particular the Rainbows (but also the Espei) nibbling on plants, lose leaves of the Star Grass are their favorites (also - the platies in the 29G much down all tips of a tall stem in less than a day).

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

German Autobahn At Rush Hour



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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 12:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Great photos Ingo. My camera can't take photos of moving fish - everything is a blur.

No doubt I'm wrong, but is your rainbow centre shot, facing the camera? If so, she looks a little cranky she can't find an opening to cross.

jase101, I like your film cannister idea. I have one now that my hubby drilled about 5 tiny little holes in (too little for fish to swim though, like you said). I'll get some more too & when I put them in my black gravel - you'll hardly see them (what with plants & what not). Great idea.

Cheers
TW
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LITTLE_FISH
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No doubt I'm wrong, but is your rainbow centre shot, facing the camera?
Right on Robyn, right on

Yeah, the camera is a bit fancy
NowherMan6 not only picked out the driftwood for this tank, he also was the one that suggested the macro lens for this camera. That is where the nice close-ups come from.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 13:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Cool photos. I only have a kodak easy share - which was all I ever needed before fish. Still, I have too many other things on the shoping list before I can think about a camera.

Cheers
TW
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Your tanks is looking great!

Glad to see the algae is on the decline.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums
Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2006 15:10Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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LF,

As always, super great pictures. I really wish I could take the close ups you do of your fish. I really like them.

I also love the color of your Alternanthera. Is the lower part of the plant that same color red? If not I am going to say that light plays a major roll in red plants to color up. I might try the tetratech more iron thing but I am pretty much sold the light is the number one red color producer.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 01-May-2006 06:20Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Hi Ingo

I know this doesn't really belong in your log, but because we did talk about them here & I'm a bit sad about this news, thought I'd share it with people who'd understand. My imported fish I've been waiting for arrived in Sydney & were meant to be in QT with the shop. I spoke with LFS on Saturday past & arranged to collect my pair next weekend. Just got an email to say the female was DOA. I was waiting so long for these fish Decided not to go ahead with the male alone, cause who knows when they'll get another female. I've asked them to let me know when they have a pair next coming in.

Cheers
TW
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Thanks everybody for the input

Rick - Yeah, it seems the algae is slooooooowly on the retreat, although I am still holding my breath.

Wings - It is more the upper parts, but more accurately the younger leaves, that are red. I doubt that it is the light that causes this as the plant in the close-up was grown in the corner of the tank (back right).

Robyn - Sorry to hear about the female. While I was reading your entry I was hoping that you didn't make a mercy purchase and got the male by himself. This post is actually very fitting for my log as I have asked myself this question many times over: "What would I do if the female Apisto dies". These fish in area are rare and usually only offered as pairs. So having a single male would either mean he has to stay by himself or I have 2 males and one female (if I would buy another pair) - not a good setup. I am glad that you decided to wait for a new pair to arrive. And you really haven't been waiting for such a long time, it just felt like that because you were so excited to get them. Sorry again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-May-2006 11:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
You're right, it wasn't that long - just a few days over 4 weeks. You're also right that I was excited about them - so that did make it seem like ages. I thought I was going to be pressured into buying the male - as that was the suggestion in their email, but LFS accepted it when I said I wanted a pair only. Only fair really, as they told me in the first place I could only buy a pair.

I hope there is someone out there in Sydney who has a lonely female, just waiting for a mate

They told me to contact their importer, to find out when & what dwarf cichlids he'll next bring in. Waiting for him to get back to me now. So, it's back to the drawing board for that tank. It will definitely be a tank dedicated to a pair of rarer dwarf cichlids in the hopes of breeding. Also forgot to tell you - it's not the same tank - but a new tank, only slightly larger (about 3.7G larger - but a better shape - long, rather than high)

Cheers
TW
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Also forgot to tell you - it's not the same tank - but a new tank, only slightly larger (about 3.7G larger - but a better shape - long, rather than high)
Awesome, MTS at its finest

When will we find out more about that new tank? I know that you probably will not set up another high tech tank, but you could always go with low light plants (and even medium) for a "normal" tank.

Honestly, recent events here might give me the chance to upgrade one of my tanks, so keep an eye open for a new thread here at the planted forum where I may ask questions about my options.

Thanks,

Ingo


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Honestly, recent events here might give me the chance to upgrade one of my tanks, so keep an eye open for a new thread here at the planted forum where I may ask questions about my options.

Go LF go!

Wings - It is more the upper parts, but more accurately the younger leaves, that are red. I doubt that it is the light that causes this as the plant in the close-up was grown in the corner of the tank (back right).

But it was still probably getting more light than the rest of the plant right?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 01-May-2006 14:45Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
I got this new 23.7G (long) tank because of issues with my QT 20G (high). See my thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28748.1.htm?1# for the reasons & maybe you can give me some advice about sterilizing that tank. The last straw was a platy death, less that 24 hrs after introduction. Death was more than likely stress related due to his move, but I lost faith in the tank. It was to have been the home for the imported cichlids (that are no longer coming) & I didn't want to risk putting them in that tank. In some ways, it's good I have extra time to get this tank planted, since the cichlids aren't coming now. I knew I wouldn't be allowed to have another tank set-up (electricity & water usage issues about that) so I arranged with LFS to do a trade-in. However, when I came home with new tank & told hubby what I'd done, he bought the tank off me for the trade-in price, but said it won't be set up for time being (I'd love to be able to set it up - but it's going in the garage for now). So, now that it's emptied I'm cleaning it out & asking for advice in thread mentioned above.
I know that you probably will not set up another high tech tank, but you could always go with low light plants (and even medium) for a "normal" tank.
It will be low tech, flourish excel & low light plants. I'll start a new log, but do you think it belongs in cichlid central - it will be planted, but it will eventually be home for some sort of imported dwarf cichlid. For the 1st time, the LFS who were importing the fish for me, are also importing ADA aquasoil & there is some sort of ADA package / mixture which includes power sand & other stuff which Amano uses in his planted tanks. As the tank may go high tech one day (who knows) I may as well have the right substrate in there from the get go. Although I have some cycling fish (platys) in the tank now, it has no substrate yet, waiting for LFS to confirm availability of the Amano substrates. Hope to get it this weekend. I'll empty the tank temporarily to add substrate & plants. So, what do you think - cichlid central or planted aquaria. There'll be no clay pots but there will be some film cannisters. If it goes in planted aquaria, I'd mainly chat about the plants, but still mentioned the fish here & there. I definitely have MTS. I now have 3 tanks running, my hubby has my old one (but it will be stored for now) & if I were allowed, I run down to the shop & buy 2 or 3 small ones for fry grow out. I'm about to post in my log about some new fry.

Can't wait for your new thread. Did you do some fancy talking or something?

Cheers
TW
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So, what do you think - cichlid central or planted aquaria.
- I don't think it would be too hard for you to guess my answer
Can't wait for your new thread. Did you do some fancy talking or something?
Fancy Talking - I don't even know what that is .

No, that is for real

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-May-2006 16:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
Generally speaking, you ought to post in which ever forum
you feel the "question" belongs. Tank Logs seem to
change topics, not subjects, as the thread matures and
the participants comment and question various entries.

To decide where to post the first entry, decide what is
the primary thrust of the Log. Is it going to be Cichlids
(are you going to specialize in one, or breed one) or
is it going to be aimed primarily at plants?

Keep in mind that many visitors will go to the forum that
pertains to their interests. For instance, I don't have
any cichlids, and so rarely if ever, visit that forum.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 01-May-2006 20:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Thanks Frank, at the moment I don't even have the cichlids & I don't know when I will, so at least to start off, I'm getting it ready for plants.

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Hi all,

Had some business to attend to in Florida and decided to take the kids to Universal for a few days. After riding the Hulk coaster 4 times I now know what a fish feels like when it get's sucked up the gravel wash.

Tank is looking good. Glad to see the algae is somewhat subsiding even if it's only in your mind. Keep with a steady schedule, high co2, less food, more thick groups and I think you'll be fine.

I really like the way the stargrass looks like a big mound in the BEFORE water change pic, can't tell if you've spread it even further from the center in the AFTER pic.
I think that mound with stargrass, wood and foreground can really be an amazing center piece of your aquarium especially with all those espei running through it. I know you post alot of fish pics, but those last ones of the espei are REALLY beautiful.



My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 02-May-2006 18:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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After riding the Hulk coaster 4 times I now know what a fish feels like when it get's sucked up the gravel wash.
And you had to pay for it as well

Keep with a steady schedule, high co2, less food, more thick groups
I am working on it

I really like the way the stargrass looks like a big mound in the BEFORE water change pic
Yeah, I liked it too. And you have no idea how tempted I was to place the Anubias in front of the Star Grass as they wouldn't mind being shaded at all (unlike the current plants in that spot). But I decided it is not the right time to mess with the tank again, instead I will wait until all is stable and then mess it up again .

but those last ones of the espei are REALLY beautiful
Oh thank you, I appreciate the compliment . Wanna have some Espei?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-May-2006 20:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
LF,
I appreciate the Espei offer, but would have no place to put them with 17 cardinals holding tuff. If my cardinals start dropping I'll definitely take you up on it.

Bensaf,
Lighting can do wonders even for feet. Believe me my feet get no special treatment and have never had polish on them even in my college days when I was passed out in front of the "Porcelin Princess", but thanks for the compliment.


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Post InfoPosted 02-May-2006 20:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,
So was bored tonight so I went through and looked for your picture! All I have to say is you look like the blues guy that rides my bus!

Oh and there are some cuties on this site.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 04-May-2006 07:03Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Hey Wings - so what's the name of the thread to look for?

Cheers
TW
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All I have to say is you look like the blues guy that rides my bus!

This fella must be really handsome then

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 04-May-2006 10:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The post your picture thread ~ The recovery room

This fella must be really handsome then

Umm yeah.....and a little wierd. I think he works for WMU but I am not 100% sure. Anyways he is always on the bus with some really really big headphones(like the ones they would use in a studio) and grooving to the blues.

I was really expecting to see someone much older when I found your picture. It is almost weird now knowing what you look like.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 04-May-2006 14:34Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
I was really expecting to see someone much older when I found your picture. It is almost weird now knowing what you look like.
I guess I will take that as a compliment. You know that I know what you look like (although it is a while ago that I saw the picture). You in a pond/river having a banana - eh, bandana - on your head.

Ingo

EDIT: Ah - I didn't see that you bumped that thread with your own picture, but yeah, that is what I remembered.


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You know that I know what you look like (although it is a while ago that I saw the picture). You in a pond/river having a banana - eh, bandana - on your head.


Bandana? Its a ball cap on backwards half folded under itself. When I hooked into that fish I had a bunch of junk hanging around my neck and I had all I could do to get it off so I could fight the fish. Man I need to get back in there and hook another one.... maybe this weekend.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 04-May-2006 18:28Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Are you looking to get rid of some espei again? I wouldn't mind taking some off your hands but I am moving in about a week and don't need to worry about anything extra.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 04-May-2006 18:33Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I would post my pic, but I currently still have more hair than algae so I don't want to &nbsp; anyone off and then they'll take it out on my tank I just want to be loved

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Post InfoPosted 04-May-2006 22:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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but I currently still have more hair than algae


Well, you wouldn't need much hair as you have almost no algae

Me, on the other hand

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 05-May-2006 00:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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C'mon Ingo, fess up. That is you with the big headphones bopping away to Depeche Mode

Check out the last post I made in this thread maybe of some interest to you guys.
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28532.1.htm?0.09817231#259770


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Post InfoPosted 05-May-2006 06:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You found me out, bensaf I confess, it was me

About your link, yeah - I read the "original" the other day, the one you refer to in your foot-note. I have to say it makes sense to me as well. Only problem is that you cannot see these tiny buggers waiting in yout tank for their chance to take over again .

BTW, this week so far seems to have more algae decline, although I start to discover more BBA, this time the tiny black beard on plant leaves, even on the Hygro angustifloia. I attribute this to the change in water parameters that on one hand seem to drive out more and more thread algae but on the other hand open the door for BBA. At least this type I can fight off with Excel, but I will wait a while to see how it goes.\

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 05-May-2006 13:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,

Have you been useing Excel on this tank? I need to buy some more here soon that way I can use it once I move. I am getting a good amount of green spot on my plants. Not so sure the excel will help though...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 05-May-2006 14:33Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wings,

Yeah, I have been using Excel twice (for a week each) on this tank, to fight off BBA, quite a while ago. I doubt that it does anything for (or against) any other form of algae.

I heard about people that frequently use Excel to avoid BBA in the first place, but I am currently not willing to try that out. There must be a way to stay BBA free without having to fight it with such extreme measures.

On to the usual topic for this time of the week:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 32

Not much, if anything at all, has happened during this week. I used the standard dosage of ferts that I am using for a while now. Further, I made it a consistent habit not to feed the fish on Fridays. Algae in the lowest regions has not changed, but interestingly the upper regions seem to have almost completely cleared up (with the exception of a few bushels of BBA).

The maintenance besides the water change this weekend was easy, I just trimmed a few longer stems off the Star Grass. Maybe I don't even have to replant that group next weekend as I think I gave it a strong cut last week and it may last for 3 weeks now.

I don't have many pictures to show this time, but here is a shot of the tank from last week, for comparison:

Attached Image:

Tank One Week Ago



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Post InfoPosted 07-May-2006 12:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is the tank now from this weekend.

I have not trimmed the Ludwigia on the left at all, the fact that it hangs over the Anubias group is not a problem as these plants don't need that much light.

The Hygro angustifolia on the right is beginning to seriously shade all other plants in that area, I guess next weekend I will have to make some changes in that spot.

I am also considering of cutting part of my main driftwood block off. I figured I could easily remove a major section of the fat end of the branch. This way I creat more space for plants and also might gain something in the visual appearance of the tank. On the other hand, this means I first have to remove that monster and this scares me.

Here is the tank now:

Attached Image:

Tank Last Night



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Post InfoPosted 07-May-2006 12:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Now here are two shots of the tank a little closer. I usually show the tank completely and real close-ups, so I thought some half-distance shots may be nice.

This is the area of the tank that once (a long time ago) was known as Rock Valley. Now it is home to various plants that begin to crowd each other. Also, take your time while admiring the graceful Pearls

Attached Image:

Right Off-Center



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Post InfoPosted 07-May-2006 13:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And this is already the last shot for now, the left side of the tank.

It always seems like I have a particular unorganized plant collection on that side of my tank, like it is the repository for any plant that I don't know where else to put it .

In this small section I have about 12 different plants, like 3 types of Anubias, 4 types of Crypts, Pearl Grass, Wisteria, Ludwigia, Helferi, and Alternanthera. Plus, this is where a lot of fish like to hang out (maybe because I feed in this section and when they see me they always come there, even if I fed them just 10 minutes earlier).

Attached Image:

Left Tank Side Plant Mix



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Post InfoPosted 07-May-2006 13:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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hey looking really good!! love the log
wats the brown plant behind the pearl grass??
/:'
Post InfoPosted 07-May-2006 15:59Profile Homepage MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
r0b3y,

Thanks for the compliment

The brown plant behind the Pearl Grass is a Crypt Wendtii Red (mother plant). I have not been too successful in the past with my crypt wendtiis, I guess because I always bought tiny ones and never left them in one spot to grow out (I have the tendency too change to much too quickly ).

But you see that there is a more reddish plant behind the Wendtii as well (just to make sure you know that this are two different ones). That is the Alternanthera.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-May-2006 16:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Ok guys,

I don't have too much time right now, but if you are interested then details can follow later.

I just came back from the North Jersey Aquarium Society's fish and plant auction. What a huge event (and the first auction that I have ever been at). It was very interesting and loads of fish and plant where sold. I hade also the chance to chat again with two of the guys from my Planted Tank Round Table meeting at the LFS.

Here is a shot of the auction in progress. The stage in the back has tables all around, packed to the rim with mostly fish, but the right hand side were plants. The plastic bags you see in this picture is what was left after 3 hours of auction (about 30% I would guess).

Attached Image:

NJAS Auction



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Post InfoPosted 07-May-2006 23:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Upon arrival back home I had to take out the Apistos from the QT to add them to the big tank (reason will follow). There were the easiest fish to net, they almost swam right into the net - or at least didn't run off. I wish the Espei were like that.

Attached Image:

Apistos being adjusted



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Post InfoPosted 07-May-2006 23:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And they had to go because these 3 cuties moved in. 3 additional Neon Dwarf Rainbows, all male. I had to have them, and got them in the end for $16. Pretty much the price I pay for one at my LFS.

More will follow later, got to go back and add water to the bags

Here they are getting ready:

Attached Image:

Rainbows in Bag



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Ok, the Rainbows are in the tank now, I will continue the adjustment process for the Apsitos for at least another 15 min.

Here are the Rainbows (2 photos):

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Rainbows in QT I



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
And here they are again, I think the photos came out great (if I may say so).

The Rainbows are slightly younger than the ones in the big tank, as such I hope their integration into the main group should not cause any major issues.

Make sure to look at the updates on the previous page

Attached Image:

Rainbows in QT II



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And now the Apistos are in their new home as well. The male went right off on an excursion. Within 5 minutes he ate the first snail. I saw him pick it up and then munching around on it, then he dissapeared into the thickets and I got a little worried I may have to perform the Heimlich Maneuver on him . But he seems fine now.

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Apsito viejita II Male



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Here is another shot of him a little closer. What I find amazing about this fish is his ability to turn that black stripe under his eye (actually through his eye) on and off at will. I haven't figured out yet when he turns it on, I assume it is when he is showing off.

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Apsito viejita II Male Closer



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The female Apisto has her black stripe turned on the whole time, I only saw her without it when I got them initially. Interestingly, within the rather short time in the plastic bag for acclimatication all her yellow color went to a dull gray, but within minutes in the tank it all was back to normal.

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Apsito viejita II Female



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Here is the female again, this time showing you one of the plants that I bought at the auction. An Anubias Hastifolia. Looks very nice, for the time being I wedged it between wood and rock in front of the Star Grass.

Another plant I bought was an Anubias Barteri, but I am not going to show you a picture of it, I have too many of these already anyway

Attached Image:

Crypt Hestifolia



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The last plant I would like to show is the final purchase I made at the auction, tetratech's Blyxa Japonica. I got 6 of them, most with 2 plants per stem, for $10. The only problem I have with them is that the stems are really short and there seem to be no roots below. Anchoring them in the substrate was quite a hassle, I hope they stay down.

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Blyxa Japonica



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Last but not least, a new full shot of the tank. You can see the new crypt and if you look carefully you may be able to count all 6 Blyxa Japonica spread out along the front glass.

Oh, and no, the fish are not all at the surface because the Apistos chased them into that area, it simply was feeding time

Attached Image:

Full Tank With New Plants



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yes, the pics are beautiful

So let me get this straight, your going to "remove that monster" and you've just added 5 fish of substantial size to your tank.

Either you don't believe that your heavy load is contributing to your algae situation or you really are a "Protist Collaborator"

Sorry to sound like a party pooper, but I really think you need to add another filter to your tank if you want to be so fish heavy. I would even think about getting a wet/dry or a sump.

EDIT: Didn't see last pic, very nice full tank shot.









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Gee, thanks tetratech for bringing me back to reality

I actually added only 2 fish, the Apistos. The 3 Rainbows are in QT for a few weeks. I am usually pretty good about maintaining the QT routine and have yet to fail it. And the female Apisto is barely any larger than one Espei . Yeah, the male is a little bigger, but hey - I seem to be getting my algae a little more under control and I also added more plants .

Thanks for the compliment on the pictures,

Ingo


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EditedEdited by r0b3y
ingo just a thought.. maybe try a good quality fluidised bed filter?? it will help out with the heavy stock load also it will not drive off any valuable CO2..

r0b3y
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Ingo,

I don't have much to add on the new plants, but your tank is looking very nice. Your apistos are also very cool. Good Job! /:'

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r0b3y

- Good idea, I will have to read more about these filters to identfy their distinct advantage over a canister, if there is one. The one problem I have with adding any additional filter is the increase in current in the tank. I would not like to see my fish having to swim for their lives 24/7. That is pretty much the main reason why I haven't done anything about that yet.

slickrb

- Thanks . Yeah, I like my Apistos as well, I am glad I got them. I hope they will have a nice life in this tank. BTW, it seems like they are zooming in on finding a new house in that tank. I made out two spots that they both visited multiple times last night. One happens to be the area under the driftwood chunk on the left. So much about cutting that part off . The other area is a small gap between a rock and a small piece of driftwood to the right of the main group, just big enough for both to fit in, but it doesn't have a roof so it may rain in ().

Thanks to both of you for the input, I appreciate it,

Ingo


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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Your tank, as always, is beautiful. But those rainbows you have in QT are just gorgeous. Is it a trick of the light, or are they really that beautiful purple colour.

Cheers
TW
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Good observation on the color, Robyn

It is a combination of the "rainbow" effect of their sides (which usually are blueish at the right angle, otherwise silver) and the fact that I put my old 2x20W All-Glass T12s back over the tank. That was done because the existing bulbs are at the end of their live span (I see the tenellus not doing to well) and I haven't had the chance to get new bulbs yet.

So the color spectrum of these lights and the shimmering effect of the fish both contributed to this color effect (and maybe the camera settings as well), but I did not retouch the image.

Thanks for the compliment,

Ingo


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Great pics, LF Very very nice

I also just planted a few stems of blyxa in my 4G, in ADA substrate - we'll see if the substrate makes any differencein growth. I know what you mean with the roots though, they were hard to keep down.


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Post InfoPosted 08-May-2006 13:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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also just planted a few stems of blyxa in my 4G, in ADA substrate - we'll see if the substrate makes any differencein growth.

Makes sure that Blyxa get's lot's of light. It will not tolerate shade. I'm still deciding whether I want to add a foreground light to my tank.

BTW - Nowher when do we get to see this nano-paradise. I did scrap my plans or a scaped nano in lew of the reef I am planning...

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ingo, a FBF would be supplimentary to you rexisting filtration , you could have it in the return to your tank if the pump in your existing filter is strong enough. they need to have water that has already been mechanicly (sp?) filtered first or they will clog up. i have mine setup on my sump.
are neon rainbows really $16 us each.
they are $3.50 aus or something like that over here, you must have thought i was showing off when i bought 20

OH TOLEEDY!
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Thanks guys for the input

NowherMan6 - I don't know about ADA and Blyxa, but the guy I know who uses ADA soil says his Hair Grass really took off (he only uses the soil, not the power sand). And thanks for the compliments on the pictures, courtesy of your suggested macro lense .

tetratech - I know a foreground light would be a pain in the neck, but it may be worthwhile. I am sure your Riccia would profit from it as well. I guess this is one of the very few disadvantages of a bowfront.

Dan - Yeah, Rainbows are rather expensive in the LFS where I usually buy fishies. For that, their live stock is in much better shape than any store in the whole area. Adult Neon Dwarf Rainbows cost $20 (US), young ones, like the ones I have, $13 (US), and that does not include tax yet.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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I know a foreground light would be a pain in the neck, but it may be worthwhile. I am sure your Riccia would profit from it as well. I guess this is one of the very few disadvantages of a bowfront.


My situation is further complicated by a tall center and the thick wood. When the center is short I see better growth from the riccia, but yes you are right definitely a disadvantage of the bow in terms o direct light contact.

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I guess this is one of the very few disadvantages of a bowfront.


And don't forget the inability to take pictures from certain angles with certain lenses because of diffraction - my next tank will NOT be a bowfront

tetra - has your blyxa taken off at all in your 12G with more diretc light? don't want to go too off topic in LFs log but I think the info is beneficial to both of us


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tetra - has your blyxa taken off at all in your 12G with more diretc light? don't want to go too off topic in LFs log but I think the info is beneficial to both of us

Nope, samething comatose. The 12g only has 2.2wpg so maybe it's just not enough on a small tank even though direct.
One good thing is it doesn't die, it just doesn't grow, but you won't get that rich spectrum of color when it's really in optimium conditions.

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Nice pics there Ingo, nice fish too. I should upgrade my camera, but that's definitely not in the budget, especially since I'm thinking of upgrading both plant and reef tank soon.

Glad to hear the algae seems to be diminishing.

I wouldn't worry about the extra current from another filter. Cannisters have pretty slow flow due to their ability to do more filtration at once. I don't think your fish would suffer from another, maybe smaller, cannister. That's your call though on what you think was/is/has been causing the algae. I wouldn't add a wet/dry though due to the amount of aeration that usually causes. You'd have a hard time keeping CO2 up IMO.



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Post InfoPosted 08-May-2006 16:48Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Talking about right conditions of the light:

At the NJAS auction I also met someone who has the same tank than I do and also the 4x96W light unit.

I forgot the details (silly me), but his schedule is sonewhat like running the lights for a total of 9 hours per day, during 6 of which all lights are on, and the earlier part he has one half only and the later part the other half only. That is the guy who auctioned off my Blyxa, so maybe in order to keep it happy I will have to shorten my overall light period (currently still 11h) and lengthen the intense ligh period (currently 3h).

Ingo


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Matty,

Sorry, I didn't see your entry until I posted mine. Thanks for the compliments on photos and fish

Yeah, I was never considering a wet/dry as I know about its CO2 removing abilities.

The current of my Eheim 2028 is pretty strong, this becomes more obvious when I feed the fish and the food drops down. I was thinking of creating a counter current from the other side of the tank (with a secons filter) but that would most likely mean (I guess) that I also need a second diffuser on that side as the current generated there would not let the bubbles from one side come over there.

Maybe I have to sell way more of my Espei to solve the problem.

Thanks Matty,

Ingo


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I wouldn't add a wet/dry though due to the amount of aeration that usually causes. You'd have a hard time keeping CO2 up IMO.

Matty you know more about sump mechanics than I do, but couldn't your put a diffusor under the return pump of the sump (wet/dry) to return any lost co2 to the tank. So in effect you would have an inline reactor as well as an in tank diffusor.

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Post InfoPosted 08-May-2006 18:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Looking at the system this way:

Return(CO2 in) ---> display(High CO2 Conc.) ----> overflow(CO2 Diffusion due to aeration) ----> sump(low CO2 Conc.)

That might appear to work. If the flow through the wet/dry was slow enough it might in fact work, meaning that after the reactor in the return line CO2 rich water stays in the display for a greater period of time than the wet/dry, creating differential. However, that would mean that water is in the display for a longer period of time, and not in the wet/dry, thus making the filtration pointless because no water is being filtered. Sometimes refugiums are set up this way so that water flow is only 1X or less turnover through the fuge so the DSB and macroalgae can pull out every bit of nutrient from the water. Dirty water in, clean water out. The fact that there is a large difference helps the cause. In this case it seems to work because the goal is extraction of waste to plant or algae or anaerobic bacteria mass. The opposite of trying to add carbon into the system and a completely different method of filtration. Water can only be on the bioballs for a certain amount of time, no matter the flow....gravity here. I suppose if you had a huge column of bioballs it might work(fully extracting ALL ammonia in one pass).

However it doesn't work that way in a small system, and unfortunately you can't look at the system in its components, the difference in composition of water anywhere in the system is very very small, given there are no dead spots(which is what the wet/dry or fuge would have to be called in the above hypothesis). You have to look at the system on the whole generally and therefore you will most definitely have to increase CO2 to balance out the diffusion due to the amount of surface area exposed to the air in a wet/dry. No matter how you do it, more CO2 in the display or more at the return of the sump, way more CO2 will need to be put into the system.

A large system is a different story. There probably will be differentials in water composition between the sump and display if you have a thousand or two gallons in the display and the sump is remote and large as well. Heck, there would probably be slight differences in water composition on the left and right and top to bottom of the display. Flow would probably have to be slower through a system like that and would mostly rely on the huge amount of water to stay clean.

I think I managed to even confuse myself there a bit.



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Post InfoPosted 08-May-2006 20:58Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Matty you know more about sump mechanics than I do, but couldn't your put a diffusor under the return pump of the sump (wet/dry) to return any lost co2 to the tank. So in effect you would have an inline reactor as well as an in tank diffusor.

If you look around on the planted forum there is a guy with a 200 some gallon tank running a system like what you are talking about.

BTW I leave for the weekend and all this happens! I am so far behind. I guess I should probably take a little brake from this place any ways. Never get things done!

Great pictures! Your fish look quite happy in their new home.

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If you look around on the planted forum there is a guy with a 200 some gallon tank running a system like what you are talking about.


I'd wonder if he could possibly get 30ppm of CO2 in his tank. Maybe, but I'm sure that he's wasting a lot of CO2 to do so.

If it's not a high light setup then there's really no need to have so much CO2, and you can get away with whatever filtration you want.



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Post InfoPosted 08-May-2006 23:27Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Matty for all these details

I am not surprised that you even cofused yourself on that one . Basically, I am not into the sump idea anyway. There are too many reasons (even besides the CO2 issue) that stop me from seriously considering such a filter, for example maintenance, cost, water evaporation, and space.

Being in the process of setting up yet another tank I would like to not overcomplicate this one anymore. Maybe for the time being I can just wing it and later throw about 20 of the Espei into the new 40G (and start the same problems there, ).

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Matty,

Makes alot of sense. I never said it was going to be efficient, but it sounds like it would supply the tank with enough co2.

LF,
If you don't want a sump I would go with this. I think it's the largest canister on the market.

http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=107&PROD_ID=01002180020101

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Post InfoPosted 09-May-2006 23:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks tetratech for the link, that sure is some monser filter, for up to 400G tanks. I couldn't find it at Big Al's and I wonder how much it costs (and quality).

Anyway, I think I first will try to see if I can reduce my stocking somewhat. Maybe that is all that is needed.

Hey tetratech - I bumped into somebody who says that the Eco in her tank caused the ph and hardness to climb (from ph 7 to 8), did this happen to you as well?

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 09-May-2006 23:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Been reading

Brain hurts

pretty fish

not dead plants (see my tank)

all Good LF!

love GFG

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GFG

Thanks for the compliment, and sorry about the brain hurting

Haven't seen you in a while, and where would I be able to read about your current tank issues.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-May-2006 14:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey tetratech - I bumped into somebody who says that the Eco in her tank caused the ph and hardness to climb (from ph 7 to 8), did this happen to you as well
?
I don't remember that happening, but then again I've been running co2 heavily so I probably wouldn't have noticed.

ph 7 to 8 sounds pretty drastic to me.


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Thanks tetratech,

In the meantime I read a few posts where people claim to have rather significant increases in their ph, but other posts completely dismiss this notion. I guess it is one of these things where opinions are wide spread.

I have a tank issue:

I notices what appears to be a much slower growth on the Star Grass. In addition, last night I noticed some leaves on new growth turning thin and melting. Now, I have read that this is caused by a sudden lack of Nitrate (On the APC site in the plant profile). I haven't measured my Nitrates, guess I will have to do that tonight. I would be really surprised to find my tank having low nitrates, although I haven't increased my dosage, but 1.5tsp every other day should be enough, I thought. Maybe the overall number of fast growers causes it to be sucked up much quicker.

Does anyone have any idea what else may cause this problem?

Thanks in advance,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 11-May-2006 13:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Sounds like no3 deficiency. If the light and co2 are up to speed I would dose even more especially if mass is increasing. I learned the hard way when that happened to my stargrass. The wildcard in my situation was that I was cutting the tops all the time, but in your case your replanting them. For the longest time I was dosing 1/2tsp no3 and when I felt the mass was really full I starting dosing 5/8 to 3/4 tsp.

I believe Amano increases dosing as plant mass increases.




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I believe Amano increases dosing as plant mass increases.


Only really makes sense. I am wondering if that is why I am starting to get some green spot.

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Thanks you two,

I will make sure to measure tonight. It would really surprise me though.

What I think I may find is an unproportionally high amount of Phosphate as I have been doing it now for a few weeks in the recommended dosage (1/8tsp 3 x per week). Last time I did this I ended up with 10ppm.

So, maybe it is more of a proportion issue than a plain lack of Nitrate.

Will keep you posted,

Ingo


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Well,

Just measured the N and P:

- solid red in the N, meaning 40++ppm
- dark blue in the P, meaning way more than 5ppm

Now, as I said earlier I expected the P to be rather high, but the N is a big surprise.

Of course I have no idea what to make of this, as usual.

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Of course I have no idea what to make of this, as usual.


LF,
You are not the only one. I tested my N today too and it was in the same ball park as you with 40ppm. I am not even sure I want to dose tomorrow being the tank is going to be taken down in on Monday.

I think we need Ben to let us know whats up. Chances are he will yell at us first for using test kits!

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I went and took a comparison shot of the tank to actually see if there is any growth. And I do have growth, but there are these two Star Grass tops melting. I also see some black tips on them which supposedly is from a lack of micros.

Here is a shot with Today at the bottom and 5 days ago:

Attached Image:

Comparison



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EditedEdited by tetratech
LF,

Did you dose macros today? If yes, your probably looking at the peak of buildup for NO3 as well as the test kit being off by as much as 20ppm. I've contacted several attorneys about class action lawsuits against test kit providers.

So your no3 could be averaging 20ppm and your po4 2 or 3.
The idea behind EI is that it doesn't stay high for long, because the whole system get's flushed anyway every week.

From the pic your stargrass looks O.K. Maybe a closeup would be more revealing.



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Post InfoPosted 12-May-2006 02:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
The high numbers in and of themselves are not an issue. They'll be reduced when you do water change anyway.

The real question is why are they that high ?

Sounds like something else is limiting the uptake of N and P. Don't forget if one thing is limiting then uptake of all others stop until the limiting nutrient becomes available again.

Do the usual, check Co2, up the micros in case one of them is short. Especially check GH. GH is one that's often overlooked when it comes to plants and is very vital. Really needs more attention then it gets sometimes. Calcium and Magnesium are vital. Especially Mg , which can cause some funny problems.

It can tricky sometimes. A plant can show a symptom of a lack of a nutrient, even though you know you have plenty of that nutrient there. I.e the Stargrass showing like N dificient, this usually indicates that something else is lacking and preventing the plant from utilising the available nutrient.

Usually something like a Mg deficiency will appear as something completely different and send you off on wild goose chases.

A close up of the affected Stargass would help a lot.


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Post InfoPosted 12-May-2006 04:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the input,

Sorry, a close-up will have to wait until tonight as all is dark now in the tank (4:30 AM).

I had a feeling about having another nutrient being a limiting factor (I guess I am beginning to understand) and even without your advice I added 50ml of TMG instead of 40ml (yesterday it was micro day, so macros have last been added the day before).

Over the last few weeks I also increased my weekly input of Equilibrium, from formerly 1/2tsp to almost 2tsp. I haven't measured the GH though ever since doing this.

Neither have I measured KH or CO2, I guess KH is around 4, but I will measure tonight.

Thanks for the input and thoughts,

Ingo


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Well guys,

On with the Star Grass Saga:

The photo below shows one of the two effected stems as good as possible. The red arrow points to the yellowing (dying) stem, the yellow arrow shows you how thin the leaves are.

I also measured some values:

It appears as if my KH is almost 5 (upped the baking soda dosage over a few weeks)
Also, my GH seems to be close the 5, that is at least when the test liquid turned from a pale yellow to a pale green.

Here is the shocker, my ph seems to be 7, giving me a CO2 of 15ppm. I have cleaned the diffuser for the last time almost 3 weeks ago (tomorrow), can that be it? The bubble count appears to be the same as always, now I went ahead and cranked it up a notch.

Attached Image:

Star Grass



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Post InfoPosted 12-May-2006 23:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here is the shocker, my ph seems to be 7, giving me a CO2 of 15ppm


That would explain uptake limitation, but I defer to my master

EDIT: LF There is a good discussion on APC concerning the trend toward higher C02. There are many advanced aquarist discussing the whole fishload thing as well. I must admit I never saw this tread until now, but I feel like it supports my argument about fishload and algae, especially when there is abundant light.

co2.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/general-aquarium-plants-discussions/16678-why-trend-towards-more-more-co2.html

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Post InfoPosted 13-May-2006 00:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks tetratech for the link

I didn't see it until now as I assumed there were no new entries in my thread for the last almost 2 days and as such didn't open it. I will read up on the link content after I do my weekly thing (as I have done something towards higher CO2).

Weekly Tank Update - Week 33

The last week had no major events, my focus was mainly on the order of items for the soon-to-be-coming 40G tank. Only on the side did I notice that 2 stems of the Star Grass were withering away and when I finally dug out the test kit I noticed a very low CO2 concentration, and going with it a high level of nutrients.

There are multiple options of why that would be, one of which is that the diffuser - which hadn't been cleaned in almost 3 weeks and also loses a lot of bubbles that bypass the spray bar and reach the surface straigh up - is not working as expected. I decided to tackle this as the cause and the following pictures will show my changes.

Another thing that needed change was the right tank side where the Hygro angustifolia started to shade all smaller plants in the foreground and the heavily water rooted Alternanthera in the background (which had been trimmed a few times before).

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Week 32



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Now here is a picture of the tank from yesterday before I made any changes. One observation I thought I made during the week was a reduction in growth, but when comparing the shot from last week to this one it seems that growth is actually pretty good. The Star Grass and the Hygro both have gained a few inches, and so did the Ludwigia on the left:

Attached Image:

Tank before Changes - This Weekend



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Here is the tank now after my changes. I completely removed the Alternanthera (2 stems) from the right way back, you couldn't see it there anymore anyway. I cut off a few shoots from that root mess and planted them all over the tank so they can grow out in better light. Next, I moved the Hygro in the back on the right, I had to redo it once as the left stem cramped the right stem too much.

I separated them with a Helferi that I placed between them. Furthermore, I removed the Pearl Grass from the front right and gave it a good trimming (bottoms cut away) and replanted them in that spot.

Given that this process for sure stirred up some gunk I decided not to further upset the tank and left all other plants alone, hoping the Star Grass can handle one more week before it needs trimming.

Attached Image:

Week 33 - Yesterday



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The next two pictures show you the tank in halfs. First, the "new" right half with the set-back Hygro. Its shade is over a grouping of Green Wendtii and I think it will not hinder that plant's growth. I noticed that the Espei like to hang out in the stems of the Gygro now, usually they did not mingle on the right tank side too much.

In the right front you can see some of the Alternanthera cuttings, I know I will have to replant them somewhere else once they grow taller. Also, you can see some of the Blyxa in the foreground. All week long I had to re-root at least 2 of them every day as these suckers really love to float up.

Attached Image:

Right Tank Side



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
See full tank shots and more on bottom of last page

This is the left sideof the tank, basically untouched in a while with the exception of the addition of Blyxa stems and cutting from the Alternanthera.

I really like the look of the overhanging Ludwigia, creating some shade for the Anubias below and developing some nice water roots that look like a curtain.

This picture also reveals my action towards CO2 improvement. Besides cleaning the diffuser (not visible on the left) I added a very small Rio power head (Rio 50) just below the spray bar and straight up from the diffuser. A lot of bubbles now are actually sucked up into the power head and pushed to the right side of the tank. From the ones that bypass the power head most are caught by the spray bar and pushed over as well. The percentage that reaches the surface right away had been greatly reduced.


Attached Image:

Left Tank Side



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Here is a close-up from the output of the Rio pump. You can see the large amount of bubbles being washed over the Ludwigia Hanging Garden.

I finished my water change yesterday at around 1PM. By 8PM I measured some tank values (remember that I cranked up the CO2 a little the night before):

- A ph of about 6.6, if not less (but not 6.4)
- A KH of around 5

Now, this gives me at least 38ppm of CO2. I guess I will have to keep a close eye on the tank today as it is the first day where I add CO2 in this fashion for the full time.

Attached Image:

CO2 over Ludwigia



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Now a change of topic

Yesterday afternoon we had to go to Petco and buy some kitty litter. Of course, as usual I was perusing the fish isle, usually not really a delightful event. Well what can I say, I came across one tank, looked at it for a few minutes, and ended up with this:

Attached Image:

New Fish



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Post InfoPosted 14-May-2006 12:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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In this tank were a bunch of German Rams (plus other fish), all on the smaller side. In the center, in the hole of the one rock that was in the tank, was a female. The male was behind the rock and chased away any other Ram that came near.

I typical chain store fashion, when I started to explain to the sales person which 2 fish I would like she already ripped open the top cover of the tank, causing the female to flee to the group of rams and losing almost all color instantly. Got me rather mad, I have to say. I think I was able to identify her again, but I cannot be sure. They seem to get along well though.

I am not really scared that this experiment may not work out (some may remember that I failed with German Rams once before) as I paid much less for both of them together than I paid of one in the LFS. Also, I think I know more about SA cichlids now (see my Apistos). Nevertheless, it is a major gamble

Here is a close-up of the male a few minutes after the 2 hour transition phase:

Attached Image:

Male German Ram



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Post InfoPosted 14-May-2006 12:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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He had never completely lost his colors, but didn't stay like this either while being transported. Compared to the last pair I had these are rather small.

Here is another shot of the male, forgive me for not cleaning the side glass pannel of the tank, I didn't expect visitors.

Attached Image:

Male German Ram II



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Here is a shot of the female. She lost all her color during the transport, became a dull gray with black spots on the sides that almost formed a completed line from head to tail. At that stage I wondered if this is even a Ram. I also thought that she may be a Bolivian.

Once she was released she started to regain some color:

Attached Image:

Female German Ram



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Last but not least, here is another shot of the female.

One can start to make out the dots in the finnage at this picture. I find it very interesting how these fish, including my Apistos, can turn coloration on and off. I doub't that they have the ability to trigger different colors on demand, but the involuntary changes are a good way to communicate what is up with them.

My male Apisto, for example, turns the black bar through his face on when he is not secure.

That is it for now,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Female German Ram II



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Post InfoPosted 14-May-2006 13:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Good luck with the rams this time around. They both look like nice specimens.

Cheers
TW
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Tanks is looking good I think your on a good path. I particular like the left size. You didn't mention algae so I'm hoping it is being minimized.

Hopefully this time around the Rams will do better.

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I really hate to say that, but as far as I can see from the pictures both are females but I hope I'm wrong.

Cheers.
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks everybody for the input

Yeah, I totally forgot to mention the algae. In that department it seems like the BBA is a little advancing while the thread is stable to less.

Untitled No. 4 - Nice to hear from you again .
I have a thread going HERE where I actually question the male/female issue as well, but my spin is that both appear male as the smaller one chases the larger one away. What makes you believe they both are female. I seem to identify the 3rd elongated dorsal ray in the one I labeled male (above), but not in the other. Also, both are small and the "potential" female is even smaller, maybe 3/4 to 1 inch. Thanks for any info you can provide.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by Untitled No. 4
There are few ways to identify male rams from female rams and the ray extension is one of them, but it doesn't mean that it is the only way or that it's 100% accurate.

A picture of a female ram

That one fish is a good example as by the ray extensions point out to it being a male while it is actually a female. I'm quite sure as I've seen her spawning a few times.

The pink belly can also be helpful to sex them as males will never have a pink belly, but it doesn't mean that females have them 100% of the time, so if a fish has a pink belly it means it's a female. If it doesn't, it doesn't say that it's 100% a male. Same with the blue specks on the black spot. A male will never have them, a female will usually have them.

Moreover, when the there is a group of males only, the dominant male will supress the rest of the males and they in turn will acquire female traits. When only females are present, the dominant female will chase the other female and will acquire male traits.

In any case, I think that both are females just because it looks like a female. It's hard for me to explain exactly what about it looks like a female but it's something with the head and the body shape. But still, I might be wrong.

And for comparison, a picture of a male ram.
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Untitled No. 4

Thanks for the quick reply. I spent the meantime with taking more shots of them and maybe this can shed more light on the situation. I am utterly confused by now and lost all faith in sexing them, your entry supports that with the male taking on female trades and vice versa.

Here is the situation, the smaller and less colorful chasing the larger and more colorful Ram.

Attached Image:

The chase is on



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Now here is the best shot I could get of the more colorful one (also bigger), formerly identified as male. The first 3 rays of the dorsal fin are shortest, shorter, and normal. The black dot on the side shows in its outer parameter blue speckles, maybe indicating a female. Also, maybe the rounded end of the dorsal could indicate a female.

Overall, I have no clue

Attached Image:

More Colorful one



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Here is the smaller and less colorful one. Dorsal fin tip similar to the other, although length difference in the rays is more ounced. This one also displays blue speckles in the outer perimiter of the black spot, and the rounded end of the dorsal fin.

Somehow I was under the impression that:

- If both fish are the same sex than the dominant would be the more colorful one
- If the are of different sex then the dominant fish would be the male

My latest logic implies (and I may be waaaayyyyy off) that the small one is a male and the larger a female.



Attached Image:

The Other One



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Untitled No. 4
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* The dominant fish would be more colourful unless genetics make it duller.
* Dominant fish can be female too, especially with cichlids. The female might challenge the male's strength to see if he's a good breeding material and if it's weaker than she is she will chase him out of her territory. One thing female rams can't stand at all are weak males.
* I'm still pretty much convinced that both of your fish are females though.
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Untitled No. 4,

Thanks again for the reply. I think I could handle 2 females better than 2 males, as this always allows me to add one male later on (no space right now). Let's hope that any fighting will not conclude in one being so stressed that it would die, the 20G should leave enough space for both, I hope.

I guess that is why Apsitos give you much less trouble, there is no way to confuse a male with a female .

Thanks again,

Ingo


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They both should be fine in 20 gallons, especially as it's well planted and the submissive one will have enough places to hide. They also should calm down when they realise they living in autpian tank without males and will form an alternative community for female rams only.

Apistos can be confusing as well, by the way. I've had a few sent over to me from a breeder a long time ago and he sent me two males and four females. I've divided them into two tanks with one male and two females per tank and only after a while I found out that what I thought was a male was actually a female. Sometimes when they come from a good brood the females are so colourful and nice that when juvenile it is easy to confuse them for being males.

Also, I just remembered that it's being said that rams bred in the far-east are being given hormones to appear more colourful which might make males look like females, so you still might have a male in there somewhere.

I wonder if that makes your fish transvestite (assuming it is a male)?
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I don't know, guess I will have to wait until he undresses himself to find that out.

Untitled No. 4 - thank you so much for the input, you know that I have always highly valued your comments (and that since almost one year now)

Ingo


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Untitled No. 4,

It's been a long time since you've joined our friendly little discussion group. You seem to have alot of experience with both fish and plants, but I realized I've never seen one of your setups. Can you treat us with a pic of one past or present?



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EditedEdited by Untitled No. 4
Tetratech,

There are a few things that I have quite an experience with and one of those things are rams. I have kept rams for a while now and I know a serious breeder and everything I know comes from him. Regarding the male/female situation, I look at a fish and tell myself "oh, nice male/female" without even thinking about it. They just look different.

As for plants, my first planted tank was when about 16 years ago or something but I was a kid and it was just a tank with plants. I only took it seriously about two years ago. Unfortunately, experience doesn't necessarily equals success. Actually, in my experience experience equals failure. I have been very successful about a year and a half ago and then I started reading more and since then it's all gone down hill and the lowest point of my planted tank experience was about two weeks ago when I decided to give up and also went on holidays for 12 days. When I came back my tank was the best it has been for a while and i decided to take it slowly again. In other words, the more you know, the more you can mess up. At the moment my tank is recovering very nicely albeit slowly and I'm very optimistic.

As for pictures of my set up, my grandmother always told me that you don't show a half baked work and my new tank has never even been quarter baked! That's why you have never seen any pictures of it and never would until I thought it was 6/9 baked. But then you've asked specifically and I will oblige, but only later today as the last picture on my log (which is supposed to be for personal use only -- for me to be able to follow my "prgoress" ) was taken about three weeks ago, just before the "big flop" and I want to take another one today before I present it for the world.

I also would like to find a picture of my other tank when it was at its best and as it is now (which is not bad, in my opinion) to ease my embarrasment.

I also promise not to hijack Little Fish's thread and start my own, and with the time zone difference you should have something to read at just about those dead hours at work.

To be continued...
Post InfoPosted 16-May-2006 09:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Untitled No. 4,

See, that is where we are different. I have no shame () showing my tank at any stage. I may bug my fellow planters too much when I go on and on about algae issues and what not, but on the other hand I also believe that I show "the world" that not all tanks look like Amanos.

We all know that even the grand masters of Planted Tanks had loads of failures before the mastered the art. And yes, somehow they don't present these failures in a visual form. But why not? What is the worst case? Others see/hear you ranting about your miserable tank and this makes them feel better about themselves as they a) know they are not alone or b) their tanks actually look better (but are not master pieces either).

In my opinion, I am not in a competition with my fellow planters. Sure do I envy tetratech and bensaf for their very nice looking tanks, but in a positive way. And I strongly believe that my tank would look worse now if I hadn't shown all the issues I had so far and these visual clues allowed others to advise better on what to do.

I don't mean this entry to state that all people should open up their "ugly tank vault" if they feel uncomfortable with it, but think about it. It is just a hobby

Ingo


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See, that is where we are different. I have no shame

Of course you have no shame, your from Jersey

Untitled,

I could certainly appreciate those comments, everyone has had issues at one point or another. It's the only way to learn. You were there when I first started my log and whoever goes thru it will see some of them. In fact I created a "Horrific Tank Thread" for people to show some of their problems and as LF has pointed out even Amano had problems.

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Post InfoPosted 16-May-2006 12:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Of course you have no shame, your from Jersey


Well, albeit I am a resident of New Jersey, I am actually from Germany (and we got no shame either ).

Another topic: The rams don't seem to do too well, when I came home last night they were simply hanging out in different, more or less hidden, parts of the tank. Their breathing was rather heavy. I made a 50% water change right away, but even an hour later it was the same. The 24 hours following the purchase they were swimming through the tank and picked out some goodies from the moss. Now they don't even eat when I feed anymore. Doesn't look good

And another topic: Last night I measure the big tank ph as I had not done so after adding the power head and having the CO2 on for the full day. It seems like I have a ph of around 6.4 , which - combined with a KH of around 5 - should give me 60ppm of CO2, and that 2 hours before lights out. Am I pushing it?

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Rams,
What tank are these in and with what?

Big tank,
I think if your fish look fine leave it.



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Post InfoPosted 16-May-2006 13:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech,

The Rams are in the 20G Long QT, with 3 platies and 3 Dwarf Neon Rainbows that I aquired a week earlier. All other fish are as spunky as ever.

Fish in the big tank look and behave normally, thanks for the advice on leaving the current CO2 flow.

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Post InfoPosted 16-May-2006 15:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi LF,
Yes, I think that with those readings you are "pushing it."
I'd back off on the CO2 by a bubble or so and let the pH
climb a bit more and get the CO2 down to around 30.

Frank


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LF,

What's the no3 level about in the 20g. Unfortunately when you buy these rams from stores they aren't used to any planted tank conditions and I know they need to adjust to no3 levels. I personally would check that and keep doing water changes to keep the water pristine.

Back to the PH, Frank taking the cautious road (fish frist) so I understand where he's going. Truth be told we really don't know your exact co2 range. If your PH is really 6.6 and not 6.4 and your kh is really 4 and not 5, than your co2 is really 30ppm that's why you have to see the reaction of the fish. I constantly have a ph of like 6.0 with a kh of 2/3 and I have absolutely no problem with any fish, only when I acclimate new fish to quickly.

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Post InfoPosted 16-May-2006 15:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Untitled No. 4
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Little Fish,

Rams, what you're describing is a typical problem with Rams (and some other cichlids, Discus, for instance) and it's a matter of internal bacterial infections, or hexamita. Being on the sensitive side of things they are e to it and it might result from poor water conditions, continuous bullying, unstable water conditions and so on. In your case I guess it's mostly because of moving to a new home, and perhaps an acclimation period which was too short.

Usually the first sign of the disease is that the fish stop eating, sometimes they try to eat but spit it back (always pay attention to their eating habits!) and becoming shy. Then they usually have white and long excrement and usually they darken (which most people think is a good thing as it looks as if they colour up). Later it might develop into hole in the head disease and so on.

Bottom line: you must act now or they will most likely die.

Treatment: well, I've had good experience with Waterlife's Octozin and JBL's Furanol. I prefer Furanol as you can give the fish a dip for half an hour instead of dosing the whole tank. Anyway, I don't think this information will be of any help as I don't think either products is available in America. You'll have to ask American aquarists for recommended medications available to you. Try asking someone who has Discus fish or looking up Discus information as it's something most Discus keepers keep just in case.

I'll stress again that you have to act as soon as possible as the longer you wait the less chances they have to recover.

Hope this helps.
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Untitled No. 4,

Thank you so much for the advice, you were right on (you sure know your Rams).

When I came home I went straight to the basement (location of soon all my tanks) and it was already too late.



Both are dead, seemed to have died not too long ago or the other fish didn't feel like eating them. I guess the forumla "Ingo + Rams = Happiness" does not apply.

Thanks for all the effort on the gender identification and behavior issues,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-May-2006 23:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Untitled No. 4
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I'm sorry to hear about the rams dying. It happens in the hobby, and it definitely happens with rams, especially shop rams which are bred in on a production line without any thought of their well-being after they're sold.

I wouldn't give up just yet if I were you. When you decided to buy another couple just make sure the salesperson get you the fish you want. If he does that trick on you again, tell them to go away and call them again when you're ready and warn them you know what fish you want and that you will get them sacked (and not to mention castrated) if they don't get you those two fish.

Then when you come back home take your time acclimating them. About an hour. There are two methods to do that: The first one is the dripping method: you put the fish in a container and with an air tube with a flow restrictor (can be a tie in the tube) you drip water from the tank to the container, about a drop every couple of seconds. When the container is full, empty some water and continue. Remove from the stove after an hour and place in the tank.

The method I'm using is to float the fish in the bag in the tank and add about 20ml of tank water every five or so minutes. When the temperature in the bag and the TDS are the same as in the tank, I set it free. Mind you, I know my rams breeder and I know his fish are healthy and strong and that he picks his best fish for me, so I'm not too bothered.

Finally, remember: rams are not only stunning fish, they are entertaining two and no two fish have the same personality, so it's really worth trying to keep them again.

Again, sorry.
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Thanks again Untitled No. 4,

Yeah, I acclimated them for 2 hours, beginning with about 30ml every 10min and after 1 hour shifted gradually to 50ml every 10min.

I guess the mistake was that it was a purchase in the spur of the moment. Not to mention the fact that I neglected the reason why I usually don't buy fish in a chain store. And I should have prepared the QT more to make the transition easier (if I had known that I was buying them). Lesson learned, yet again.

At least I don't have to worry about who is male and who is not.

Ingo


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LF,
I don't think your ready my threads.

I had a whole thread here on German Rams and there propensity for getting internal infections. Mine usually got them between 2 and 6 months. I didn't thing they would succumb as fast as yours did.

In addition to acclimating slowly (which I'm sure you did) they need very pristine water with no perceived threats to their well being.

Did they show any syptoms of an infection? Perhaps a UV would help to rid the tank of any pathegons before attempting to add more.

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Post InfoPosted 16-May-2006 23:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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No tetratech,

Neither when alive nor dead did I see any damage by looking at them. And yes, I read your threads , it probably is more that I get a little too confident after being successful pretty often (recently).

BTW, did you see Untitled No. 4's Thread already?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-May-2006 23:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Untitled No. 4
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No disrespect for UV, but I think it's a bit unnecessary. I for one have had rams for ages without any problems and without UV. The internal infections that they have is something that they come with and will alway have and live with, but it will only become a problem in poor conditions but in my unprofessional opinion in most cases it is a problem of fish that are poorly bred, then poorly housed at shop and the shock of moving to new premises (regardless of how good they are) just finishes them.

For instance, I get my rams in the post after they've spent a night on the infamous routes of the Royal Mail and have never had the slightest problem with them. They come out of the box and start looking for food immediately. Usually, if it's a couple, they will start breeding within a week. Is it anything special that I'm doing? No, it's what the breeder is doing. So if you do want to give them another chance and you can be bothered, start researching now. I had to wait 3 months before I got my first fish from the breeder (although since then I'm always the first in queue. There's nothing you can't achieve in the fish world without a bribe of some nicely chosen plants...)
Post InfoPosted 17-May-2006 00:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ingo, so sorry about the german rams. That's so sad. I've never had the german ones, but have some bolivians instead. They aren't quite as pretty, but I've read they're easier to keep (more forgiving of conditions) & that the german rams are very sensitive to water conditions. I've been nervous to try them at this early stage in my career, but I'd like to give them a try one day. You should try again though, as they are really pretty looking fish.

Cheers
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Thanks,

Yes, I believe I will try again sometime, but not now. As I said, I wasn't planning on getting Rams at this point anyway and I will now hold off until I am ready (whenever that is) and a tank is ready.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 17-May-2006 13:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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OK, new topic:

Nothing spectacular, but tetratech - you use Greg Watson's KNO3 as well, right? We once compared the time between our tanks that it took 5l of CO2 to run out and I learned from this that I used less CO2 then you (not good). Well, last night I finished the 2nd pound of KNO3, where are you in that department?

And - man, this Blyxa is for sure a floater. Yesterday was the first day in about 10 days where I did not have to re-root at least one Blyxa stem.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 18-May-2006 10:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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- man, this Blyxa is for sure a floater. Yesterday was the first day in about 10 days where I did not have to re-root at least one Blyxa stem.



You've really gotta shove it down there good. The good thing about it is, it has a nice firm stem part so getting it in the gravel is pretty easy. Once it roots you should be fine, but I know what you mean about the floating


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 18-May-2006 15:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Nothing spectacular, but tetratech - you use Greg Watson's KNO3 as well, right

Actually for KNO3 I use Greenlight Stump Remover which is pure potassium nitrate. From my original 16oz container I have aproximately 2 ounces left.

I purchased it at LOWES Home Improvement. The only thing I purchased from Greg Watson was the po4 and the so4. The so4 I never used, so I'm selling it cheap.

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Post InfoPosted 18-May-2006 16:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Greenlight Stump Remover which is pure potassium nitrate

Does that mean that it is more N and K per tsp?

Also, help me out - is 16oz = 1 pound? In any case, it seems like you used much less than I do, given that I went already through 2 pounds .

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Post InfoPosted 18-May-2006 16:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Does that mean that it is more N and K per tsp

To be honest I'm not sure.

Well your tank is abour 45% bigger than mine and you've used more than double what I've used.

But of course things are never that black & white, Take two 125g one with lower light and not as many plants, I don't think one would dose the same way.

As with my tank I was dosing 1/4, than 1/2 now 5/8 as mass increased.



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Post InfoPosted 18-May-2006 16:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well, this thread hasn't seen any new entries in 3 days, I think it is time to close it.



Just kidding . Instead, I will celebrate my 1 year FP membership with 18 pictures, so get ready for more plants and fish.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 34

This week's focus had been mostly on the delivery of the products for the 40G Breeder and as some of you know - this was/is not going too well. The plan was to set up that tank this weekend and the plants for it should have been coming out of the 125G.

For that reason I let the plants grow rather tall and I may have caused some problems while doing so. Loads of plants cause loads of shading, which in turn may cause loads of die-off on the lower leaves. For some reason or another, the BBA is really taking off. Certain leaves of slow growers, and even some fast growers, really have a beard at the leaf edges by now. As I absolutely cannot wait any longer with the trimming, I cut down the Wisteria, Hygro, and the Ludwigia, whereby the first two have replanted tops and disposed bottoms. The Hygro angustifolia grew so nicely that I had a few stems left for the 29G.

Pictures: Here is a close-up of the Ludwigia before trimming. It's horizontal growth was soo strong that it started to grow over the Star Grass far to its right side

Attached Image:

Ludwigia before Trimming



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Now, going back to week 31, which was only 3 weeks ago. This was the last time the Star Grass group had been trimmed.

You can see the few stems of the Ludwigia on the left, at that time, they pretty much reached their final height and the horizontal growth is just about to start (being pushed to the right by the current from the spray bar). Also, the Hygro on the right is about 2/3rds of the tank height.

Attached Image:

Tank 3 Weeks Ago



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One week later, in week 32, the Hygro has grown just a little taller, not by much. Also, the Star Grass hasn't improved a lot, but the Ludwigia was on its way to the right. I did not realize it at that time, but there seems to have been some growth slowing limitation in the tank. Most likely it was the CO2 which had not been efficiently distributed through the tank and loads of it left the water immediately after rising to the top.

Attached Image:

Tank 2 Weeks Ago



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One week ago, at week 33, the growth was measurable again, but maybe only because the last gap from plant top to tank top had finally closed for some of the Star Grass. Also the Hygro reached the top and had been replanted at that point. It wasn't trimmed though as I planned to do that this weekend to add the cut off stems to the 40G.

That weekend, I added the small Rio pump to diffuse and re-direct the CO2 bubbles to the right side of the tank.

Attached Image:

Tank 1 Week Ago



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 12:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Which brings us to this weekend. Here is the tank before trimming. Growth had been tremendous during that week. The Star Grass and the Hygro really took off. I assume this validates the assumption that my CO2 was not working too well in the weeks before. On the other hand, BBA also took off, which I find strange as it is supposed to do better in less CO2.

Check out the Ludwigia. The few stems had many branches on them that started to form a dense carpet over the Anubias group and into the Star Grass group, which in turn became so full that it even shaded parts of the front section of the tank. Not to mention the jungle the Hygro created.

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Tank This Weekend - Before Trimming



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Well, as mentioned earlier, it was time for a major trim of all fast growers. The Ludwigia had been cut back to start the horizontal growth anew. All the Star Grass had been removed, botttoms trimmed away, and replanted. The Hygro angustifolia also had been removed, this were actually only 2 stems (a third one, created from a trimming about 4 weeks back, had been left in place and is now the tallest of that group). Out of these 2 original stems I created maybe 8 new ones, 4 smaller ones of them ended up in the 29G.

Here is the tank now:

Attached Image:

Tank This Weekend - After Trimming



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 12:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Having a hard time getting the camera focus on the BBA, here are 2 shots to show you some exampled. First off, this is a section in the tank that is formed by Crypt Retrospirals and Narrow Leaf Sags. One can clearly see how nicely lined up the BBA is along the edges of the individual leaves. I believe to have observed that most leaves affected are a) slow growers and b) shaded. Any ideas about that?

Attached Image:

Sag and Crypt with BBA



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 12:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is another example, a close-up of my beloved Isoetes Lacustris. Off topic, this plant is very interesting. If you have some time then peruse the web and learn more about it. For one thing, it is a "very old" plant that does not have the structure of most things that we call plants now. Having seen how badly affected this plant is, and knowing that I rarely can get my hands on them, I decided to do another Excel treatment. I added about 60ml after the water change and will add for the rest of the week daiyly 30ml. Let's see if this will have any effect. So far, the Excel treatment had worked once very well and the second time around just a little.

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Isoetes Lacustris with BBA



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 12:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Please make sure to check the loads of pictures (and a question or two) on the previous page

Ok, here is a fish picture now, in an attempt to distract myself from any algae related issue. My Neon Dwarf Rainbows are doing very well in the tank, actually - it seems like all fish do well .

Here is a male showing off his beautiful red finnage in comparison to his blue body (actually, blue reflection, but you knew that anyway). It is hard to get a shot of them showing color as they hang out mostly in the top left corner of the tank when I come closer, thinking it may be food time. In that section, the light is not shining on their sides and they are mostly shaded.

Attached Image:

Male Neon Dwarf Rainbow



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 12:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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For the same reason, and the fact that he is a rather shy fellow, here is a rare shot of the male Pearl Gourami. Besides him fleeing the tank if I approach it without food, and hanging in the top left corner during feeding, he spends a lot of time on the surface. This is a bad angle for me to take a picture of him as my tank is usually filled very high and the black top rim gets in the way. BTW, this weekend I was a little slow removing the hose from the tank and I actually filled the tank to the bottom of the top rim, about 1/2 inch below the glass . Should I lower the water level?

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Male Pearl Gourami



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The "out-of-focus" streaks that you can see behind the Gourami in the last picture are not bubbles that have been created by the water change, they are the output of the Rio pump that pushes CO2 from left to right throughout the tank. Here is another shot of it. You can also see the trimmed group of Ludwigia and a lonely stem of my Alternanthera. This is one of quite a few stems that are distributed through the tank, all trimmings of one tiny stem I added to the tank when I started 34 weeks ago. And that stem lived for quite a long time in a shaded spot and didn't grow at all.

Attached Image:

CO2 Distribution Contraption



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 13:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The major trimming performed this weekend also gave me the chance to account for all of my 6 Otos. I am glad to see that none of them had died as the jungle that is provided by my tank usually allows me to see maybe 3 at most. Here is a shot of 3 of them. To me, it always looks like they are singing a song when they attach themselves to the glass. Very graceful

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3 Of My Otos



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 13:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Good Morning. We're up early for a Sunday.

One can clearly see how nicely lined up the BBA is along the edges of the individual leaves. I believe to have observed that most leaves affected are a) slow growers and b) shaded. Any ideas about that?


Same thing was happening in my tank. BBA on mostly hardscape and slow growing plants. It got worse on my Blyxa when it was more shaded, maybe because it was a bigger target because it was growing even slower. On the otherhand BBA was growing on the inside of the diffusor right where the co2 comes outs. Maybe it's opening is inconsistency. I mean it could be inconsistent light/co2/growth. This seems to open the door.


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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 13:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I also had a chance to make this shot of 5 of the Otos, but not all are in focus, sorry about that. These guys became extremely active after the water change, zooming through the tank from left to right and back, regrouping on the glass, then swimming around each other, and occasionally even chasing a little Espei once in a while . Maybe this weeks changed got them in the mood, although the chance for Oto fry is slim to nothing.

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How About 5 Otos?



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 13:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And, while showing off the fishies in the tank, one cannot forget the Apistos that I added 2 weeks ago. These fish are the most trusting of all, followed by the Rainbows. When I approach the tank glass and tip with my finger at the glass right in front of them they don't even blink (well, they can't blink as they don't have eye lids, but you know what I mean). The Rainbows take flight first, but then return to my finger.

Here is a shot of the male Apisto.

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Male Apisto



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 13:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I don't know if it is noticable, but I played with the camera settings for some of the shots. One particular element was switching from "flourescent" to "Tungsten" which seems to make the pictures more green.

Anyway, here is the female Apisto. I like her very much and during feeding she occasionally lets me pet her side. I really have to make sure that she gets her share as the hyper-active Rainbows tend to snatch any food away. The stalking behavior of Apistos is sure a dis-advantage when it comes to competing with Rainbows and Pearls.

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Female Apisto



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The last section of pictures is plant related (bare with me - only 3 more shots). Here is a close-up of the Wisteria I planted in the front left of the tank. It was once a small clipping from my 20G tank but has developed into a beautiful little bush. If I could manage to keep it that size then it would make an excellent foreground plant. But on the other hand, that would make my tank look too much like tetratechs

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Wisteria



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Here is a shot of the Anubias that I purchased 2 weeks ago at the fish auction. To my surprise, it hasn't developed any algae yet. That Anubias was labeled as "hastifolia" but I have serious doubt (actually I am pretty sure) that this is not what it is. Anyone wanna tell me what you think?

When looking at this picture I also remember that I trimmed about 6 to 8 leaves of the Anubias Nana and Barteri group on the left. These had dark brown alage coverage over almost the entire surface, at least the parts of it that were exposed to light. They had a hard time as I once had them out of the water for way too long.

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Anubias ? in front of Star Grass



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 13:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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On to the last photo for now, the area formerly know as Prince - eh, Rock Valley.

It probably now could be called "the beauty and the beast." While some of the plants in that section look very nice and are doing rather well, other spots are just ugly, like the thread algae covered small piece of drifwood, the substrate which begins to have a carpet of algae (probably food and gunk related), and some Anubias leaves growing a beard of BBA.

That's it for now, hope you liked the pictures,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank Section to be Named



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 13:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,
I don't know if you saw my post in the middle of your pic upload about BBA.

Pics are great, my favorite the femail apisto (don't know who's nice looking the male or the female) and of course the Wisteria.

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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 14:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
slickrb
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Great Pictures Ingo.

And Congratulations on one year! /:'

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums
Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 14:30Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
I don't know if you saw my post in the middle of your pic upload about BBA.
No, I actually did not see that entry. I was in a frency when writing this weeks update. Can you believe it, it took me 1 hour and 20 minutes just for the update, not to mention the time to select, trim, and resize all the photos.

Interestingly I do not have any BBA on anything else but plants and wood. Nothing on the heaters, glass, and filter parts. Inconsistency, that would for sure be true, in particular with the increased shading of the last week.

Thanks for the info, glad that I am not alone with this issue,

Ingo

EDIT: Rick - didn't see your entry until now. Thanks for the congrats and comment on the pictures. Yeah, 1 year at FP, somehow I did manage to add quite a few posts in that time. I wonder how much time I spent on FP during that year


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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 14:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Just a quick update:

As of today, I reduced the light period to 10 hours, one hour less than before. This means the new cycle is from 11AM to 9PM. Darn, I forgot to change the high light period to be later, this is still 1PM to 4PM. I will have to set it more to the middle of the overall cycle.

This rule will have to be broken though on Saturdays as I will have to start earlier with the tank maintenance to keep my afternoon as free as possible (hard thing to do with the 40G coming soon).

I would assume there should not be a problem with turning on the lights earlier one day a week, right?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-May-2006 13:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I would assume there should not be a problem with turning on the lights earlier one day a week, right?


I work right through the light cycle on my tank. Which means that plants don't really get any light during that time. I'd turn the lights on earlywhile you work, but leave them on until they would go off at 9pm. It wouldn't be a problem.



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Post InfoPosted 22-May-2006 17:21Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Matty

That is what I assumed as well. The water change days are messed up tank days anyway. You shut down the CO2 for a while in the middle of the day (in my case for about 1.5 hours until 60G of water are drained and refilled), your ph changes because of the new water, so does the KH and GH, lights are different because you may chose to have only half of them on while trimming takes place, gunk is stirred up from the trimming, and what not.

Update on the Excel treatment:

I have added 60ml on Saturday, and over 30ml on the following two days, so far there is no difference in the BBA, not even a color change

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-May-2006 13:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I would forget the excel treatment. It's only preventing your plants from pearling at this point.

Keep moving toward the direction of a little more co2 and keep it stable. Keep reducing feeding, fishload and if possible the surface area of your biofilter and your tank will be more centered and your algae problems will be
history.

I could honestly say even the BBA is gone in my tank. It was getting on the Blyxa but has stopped since the shading issue has been improved.



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Post InfoPosted 24-May-2006 21:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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It's only preventing your plants from pearling at this point
Well, I actually opened my log today to report the first stage of success on the Excel treatment, some of the BBA is starting to turn red and a few spots are already bright red. So I will keep on doing it for at least this week.

Nevertheless: tetratech - what do you mean by "if possible the surface area of your biofilter and your tank will be more centered" ? Like I should add more bio filter? Centered? Please explain.

My CO2 is for sure high, I have CO2 bubbles all over the tank, tiny ones. But you know what, except for water change day, and during injuries or on Anubias flowers, I never have pearling. Me wonders if my light is too low.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 25-May-2006 10:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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If the excel is working great, I just meant what's the point if it's not doing anything.

Nevertheless: tetratech - what do you mean by "if possible the surface area of your biofilter and your tank will be more centered" ? Like I should add more bio filter? Centered?
If your still getting algae, than something is too far off center for the plants to make up the difference. Forget that your lights are too small, don't even thing that. I would probably have to run 4.5 wpg on my tank to equal your intensity.

I think we pretty much eliminated that it's the EI program causing algae. As discussed before your doing the same thing many others are doing without algae problems. And the "center" with EI can be as much as 3 times off it's target.

I feel very stongly as you know it's in your waste/light combination. There's simply too much light and too much available waste for the algae spores to stay dormant. Yes a large filter (more biofilter) would help. If the plants aren't growing well than more co2 as well.

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Post InfoPosted 26-May-2006 04:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Untitled No. 4
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May I rock the CO2 boat a bit? Now I'm no expert on plants or chemistry but I have some experience with planted tanks and this is where this is coming from.

Until a few weeks ago my 200L tank (not the one I posted pictures of) was miserable. Growth of some plants wasn't so great and I was getting some algae. I was more worried about the growth than the algae, to be honest. I was also reading everywhere that pushing the CO2 up would help so I passed the 30ppm mark and went higher, much higher, "it's okay until the fish show signs of stress" higher. Then I went away for 12 days and so shut off the CO2 and left only some of the lights on for 5 - 6 hours a day so the plants don't die, but not expecting any growth.

When I came back I had a pleasant surprise. The plants that I had problem with have recovered -- they didn't grow much due to the lack of CO2 and no light but the growth that they did have was healthy. On top of that, 95% of my algae has gone. I decided to take it slowly from there regarding the CO2 and have only started with 15 - 20ppm (<1 bubble per minute compared to about 4 - 5 bubbles per minute before). I thought that later I could bring it up a bit more if I feel the plants need it. The light intensity has gone up again to what it was before and then a bit higher.

It's been over two weeks now since and I haven't touched the CO2. Results? Plant growth is better and faster. Plants that were struggling are now flourishing. The algae I still have is less than the 5% that I had after coming back and it's only on wood, not on plants. Although I put less CO2 than before I have much more pearling (if that's an indication). And the best thing is that I'm happier with the tank than I have been for months. By the way, my fish seem happier too. Although they have never shown signs of stress like fast breathing or gasping at the surface, they have become more active and all the shrimps that I have are now all over the tank while they used to be very shy before.

I don't want to sound like an evangelist preaching for a new belief and I don't think I'm in a position to start theorising and analysing. All I'm saying is that this experience has made me think a lot about what has just happened to my tank.

By the way, the last time my plant growth was as good was several months ago before I bought the current diffuser I'm using. I bought it because I felt that the one I had added insufficient CO2 levels to the tank and wanted to push it a bit higher.

Again, just my humble experience.
Post InfoPosted 26-May-2006 08:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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May I rock the CO2 boat a bit?

I don't know about rocking it, but you would be alone in it.

You tell an interesting tale, but I think more details are needed. You don't really say how heavily planted you were or what kind of plants, etc you had in the tank. If you were achieving 30ppm in a 100L tank with 4 or 5 bubbles per minute you couldn't have had much in there.

It's not really debatable the benefit co2 has on plants given sufficient light and nutrients. I can't even count the bubble rate I'm running, but it's at least 4 or 5 per SECOND. My plants pearl everynite. My water literally looks like carbonated soda and the fish are as healthly as can be.

As I mentioned earlier, IMHO it's all about balance and haven't the tank centered (within a range.)

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Post InfoPosted 26-May-2006 12:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wow,

Now here are two people on opposite ends of the opinion meter

First of all, thanks to both of you for sharing your experience. I am sure that Untitled No.4 meant seconds, BTW. Also, I don't think he would be the only one who has the opinion that higher levels of CO2 are not necessairy. We actually don't know (or at least I have not read about a pin-pointed analysis yet) why we achieve better results on such high levels. Maybe these levels have some secondary impact on things (just thinking out loud) that help in most situations but not in all. I can for sure say that CO2 in itself is not a guarantee for success. My levels are high, no doubt, but I have no pearling of the plants, ever .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-May-2006 14:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Now here are two people on opposite ends of the opinion meter

I don't know if it's really two opposite opinions, because in Untitled's case it wasn't a permanent solution.

Untitled himself said that he turned off some lights and ran the others for 5 to 6 hrs. He saw none or little growth in his plants. That really doesn't sound like a permanent solution to what appears were algae problems prior to his "soft blackout".

If his plants were getting algae and the fish weren't happy then something was out of whack. I'm constantly pushing 6.0 ph and kh of 2 or 3 and my fish are all fine.

If untitled wants to report back to me that he ran a highlight tank with no co2 and his plants grew great and it was free of algae for a long-time than I'll eat my words

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Post InfoPosted 26-May-2006 18:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I know I'm late but yes, that soft black-out has a lot to do with the disappearance of algae. And I can trace my algae PROBLEMS back to when my CO2 cannister ran out and I had to go a few days without. The point is, there's so much at play here that we can't just pin it on one thing or another and generalize about eachothers' tanks.

It appears that Untitled switch over to a non-CO2 tank, cutting back on lights and nutrients and letting the tank balance itself that way.

Now Untitled and tetra, if you can't resolve this with words, may I suggest Irish bare-knuckles fisticuffs out back?


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Post InfoPosted 26-May-2006 18:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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It appears that Untitled switch over to a non-CO2 tank, cutting back on lights and nutrients and letting the tank balance itself that way.


Very nicely said. See that wasn't hard. Want to hear something really weird, I just looked at my regulator and it appears I'm out of co2. I don't remember when I got my refill, but it definitely went much faster the second time which makes sense.

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Post InfoPosted 26-May-2006 19:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Untitled No. 4
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No, no, I'm afraid there has been some misunderstanding.

The "soft blackout" as you call it was due to me being away and having no way/no one to dose my tank while I was away. When I came back I switched the CO2 back on and returned the lights to normal. This is really when the tank took off.

Some more details:
The tank volume is 200L (50G). It's medium planted, about the same plant mass as yours, Tetra. Plants are a combination of fast to medium growing plants. Lights have are the same as before. Fertilising is the same as before (a little bit of macros and micros every day). All other parameters (KH=2, GH = 3) are as before. Can't say I test too often but NO3 is around 10ppm, PO4 is 0.5 - 1ppm. And I did mean 4 - 5 bubles per second (again, something which is hard to really count).

The tank has been running with the high CO2 for about 4 months and was rubbish. It has been with low CO2 for the past 2 weeks. I know 2 weeks is not a very long time but I think that when adding CO2 2 weeks are enough to get a feeling of whether things are okay or not.

The reason I shared this with you is not because I belive that non-CO2 or low-CO2 tanks are better. I don't believe anything, I'm not into theorising anything and I'm definitely not trying to preach anything.

I did share this because I thought it would give you something to think and discuss about which I think has some relation to what you're already discussing (CO2 levels, that is). That's all.

I come in peace!
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I did share this because I thought it would give you something to think and discuss about
And it sure did

I for one would like to hear about different approaches and success stories while doing so. The more options are given that lead to equal results the better it is, IMHO.

As tetratech said, there are loads of parameters that determine the outcome of a successfully planted tank, and with Untitled's medium planted tank, water conditions, ferts, and what not, he may have found the settings that suit him well.

I, on the other hand, am still searching for the right conditions. I can report that more and more of the BBA is turning reddish, but I also have to say that my thread algae is advancing again (slowly increasing since about 2 weeks now, becoming noticably more recently).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-May-2006 23:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Why ?

Run with high light Co2 = things go bad, cut back light, stop Co2 return but back on Co2 and lights = things go well.

What does that tell you ?

Running with good light and Co2 the nutrients have to be there, constantly, even a temporary shortage will cause issues or stunting. Seems like something was missing or too low. Switch off for a while and everything slows down, less nutrients are required and waste builds up naturally. So when you come back and switch everything back on you are a little better off nutrient wise and everything goes better.

The sudden lack of light and Co2 tells the algae to stop reproducing. Adult algae has a very very limited life span compared to plants. A life span of a few weeks compared to a life span of many many years for plants.

That would be my take on it.

Nothing wrong with going against the Co2 grain, we've become a bit obsessed with it. A lot of people see it has a cure all when in fact it can cause a lot more issues then it solves if the nutrients aren't right.

The interactions between the nutrients are often forgotten. Nothing wrong with , say high P or K but these will both drive up N consumption. If the extra N is not supplied there will be more then likely issues, especially in tanks where there's a lot of fast growing stems. These will always be the first to be hit. There's a reason why Anubias/Ferns/Mosses are so easy to grow.

It's a lifestyle choice

Fast growth lots of work against the steady patient waiting game.

There's a lot of pondering about Amano's Co2 habits. Some say he runs a bit lower and only has the co2 on during his mid day burst of MH lighting. I guess nobody knows for sure. But his stem plants are never the fullest looking so maybe he does run low, but steady. His choice of stem plants are usually fairly simple.

I do believe the stability is just as important as the level.

Certainly my own experience is that the high level 20-30ppm does work better but it has to be stable and the nutrients absolutely must be right.

Having said that, I've said before that lower light and NO Co2 is the best bang for your buck in the long term. Yes the plant choice is limited and it's painfully slow but there are very rarely issues and it's a lot less work.

I had a low light no co2 set up for quite a while. Never had to dose ferts and I was very very happy with it. Looked good too, won the aquascaping contest here. When I changed to more light and co2, yes I could grow more plants, they were fuller and lusher but I also had a lot more headaches.

Lower light and lower Co2 seems to be less problematic too.

As I've said before it's the norm here in Asia to run with a lot less light and lower Co2. But the plant choices are different. Not so many stem plants used here, and usually it's fairly simple ones. Lots of Ferns, Mosses and Anubias,Crypts,Swords and Grasses. Hardscape is of equal importance to the plants so high growth rates are not necessarily desirable.The slower plant types put less demand on nutrients.

As I said it's a lifestyle choice.

It's also balance, and as is often forgotten plant choice is part of that balance as well as the nutrients, light and Co2.

As far as Ingo's issues - well I wouldn't worry about the Excel stopping pearling, that's just due to the de-oxygenating properites of the chems , doesn't mean the plants are doing less better.

If the plants aren't pearling now it's not a light issue. You had heavy pearling before with the same lights, so that can be ruled out.

It may be low Co2 or nutrients.

It may simply be you now have more fish consuming more oxygen therfore saturation of the water which will lead to pearling is more difficult.

If the gas and nutrients are good I wouldn't worry about the lack of pearling at all.



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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2006 04:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Yeah

Bensaf - nice balanced entry stating the advantages of low and high tech approaches, and even offering a middle path (which I believe is what Untitled has found)

I never had strong pearling, ever . I have no idea why that was the case, I guess some parameter is always off, no matter what I do. Or, pearling depends on other factors as well, like fish load, but I didn't even have it when there were only 15 fish in the tank (but then maybe other things were wrong).

What can I say - I am just not a pearler

Tankwise, the whole thing is starting to become upsetting. I don't even have a chance to truely scape this sucker, I am afraid that any removal of plants (fast growers) would instantly cause another algae bloom and as such I leave things mostly as is, besides the trimmings. This is for sure not how I would like the tank to look like in the end. Yeah - it may not be ugly, and yeah - algae may be limited, but just not what I want.

Soooo much to learn,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2006 12:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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What can I say - I am just not a pearler

LF, I'm pretty sure I remember some of your beautiful pics that showed pearling. By the way before I got the ceramic diffusor my plants never pearled but their growth was excellent, so as Bensaf pointed out it's really not an indication of plant health.

Bensaf is right when he says it's a "lifestyle choice". I notice the difference between my 12g and 72g. The 12g does o,k, but nothing grows fast not even the wisteria and I'm dosing excel everyday with EI. There isn't alot of algae under the 27 watts of light so there is very little to do maintenance wise, which is a good thing because of the 72g.

Here's a couple of points:

1.
Maybe your lifestyle doesn't blend with a high-tech planted tank. I know you do weekly water changes, but maybe not seeing your tank enough doesn't allow you to "see" certain things before they become a bigger problem. I'm also starting to think constant trimming is a really good thing (if you have time to do it, which you might be, because of algae-infected leaves), because it drives uptake and makes the plants grow fuller creating even more mass.

2.
If you step back from your tank (go ahead do it)and really think about it, why should you have these algae problems. As discussed many times, your doing what the "Master" and I "his humble apprentice" are doing. Light my Dear Jersey Friend, LIGHT. Now I'm not implying that your light is bad, because it's not. But just like in the bigger ecosystem called Earth, light (the sun) is the driver of life and decides what happen in your little ecosystem.

We all know that when you have high light every changes, you need more co2, more ferts. In the same vein you provide more opportunity for life, which of course includes more algae spores joining the fun. Look what happens when a tank is near a window in sunlight. The most intense light of all. Your light even though your only doing a midday burst is very strong. As I said it would be like Bensaf and I running 4 to 5wpg. With that light on my tank I might be posting right now in a thread titled "Chaos Maximus II"

So after all this time, IMHO you need to take a step back and take a larger approach. You must reduce your lighting or do a combination of more water changes, less fish, less food and add more biofilter mass. I would also push the co2 as far as it can go and don't go light on the ferts. Remember it's a &*^% estimative index - Tetratech out.

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Deep thoughts tetratech,

Yes, you did mention all these points before, and I guess a reminder once a week is a good thing

The pearling pictures of my tank were mostly post-water-change shots from a time when I didn't know about the corelation between pearling and new water .

About the light: although I hear you, and although I am close to try not turning my second row of lights on at all (as may be indicated by last weeks change of cutting down on the overall lighting period from 11 to 10 hours), I am not so sure that your evaluation of my light is proper. Remember that I have to light 2 more feet of tank than you do, that's 50%. Albeit the amount of wattage over the tank is larger, it is streched rather thin when looking at inches of lenght (and depth). Your light is focussed on a much smaller area.

I am with you on the fishload, one reason why I can't wait to have the 40G set up and thin out the crowd a little. Food has already been greatly reduced. CO2 is way up. Cleaning my filter more often may also be a good thing, I have cleaned it maybe 3 times in the last 40 weeks (not good I guess).

Ingo out


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I have cleaned it maybe 3 times in the last 40 weeks (not good I guess).


In some tanks that might be fine, but not in yours.

I am not so sure that your evaluation of my light is proper


I certainly respect your opinion about the light, but please remember your light is twice as strong as mine and your tank is the same depth. I don't want to turn this into a technical breakdown of lighting, but that's a lot of light. Again the light isn't a problem in itself, but it needs a lot of support.




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Yeah, maybe the problems are filter cleaning related as well, I will have to work on that

About the light, after re-evaluating your light (1/2 of mine) compared to tank size, I guess you are right, I have more than you do. What is your current light schedule?

Another option would also be that I still have some shortage on something, most likely Iron. I only use TMG for micros and never add a product like Flourish Iron on top of it. Do you guys think that would be a god idea? I have an Iron measuring kit, but identifying such small quantities by means of a sliding colored comparison chart is anything but accurate.

Thanks tetratech ,

Ingo (PS: my 4000'th post)


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I wouldn't worry about FE. The only reason I'm using Flourish Iron was to bring out some more red, but I never used a dedicated FE fert prior to that, only what little I got from dosing regular Flourish.

You do know when I started my tank I purposely bought a 36" light even though my tank is 48" because I didn't want 3.6wpg. My current lighting is 96 watts from 9:30 to 12:30, 192 watts from 12:30 to 6:30 and 96 watts from 6:30 to 8:30. So I only have 1.3 wpg for 5 hrs a day and 2.7 wpg for 6 hrs.

I really thing you should stop worrying about all the micro and macro levels. Just make sure they are in there your dumping them out once a week anyway. That's fine-tuning maybe you'll see slightly fuller grow or reddier plants, but I don't think they are the cause of your algae. Reduce light a little more, less food and try to maybe do 2 water changes a week for a while and see if there's any improvement. I bet there will be.

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Thanks tetratech for all the tips

Well, just to finish that light chapter, your light is on at 2.7wpg for 6 hours, mine is at high gear for only 3, or I better say it was as I changed it (more later).

I doubt that I will find the time to throw in another water change during mid-week, at least not in the next two months as work is a little crazy.

Anyway,

Weekly Tank Update - Week 35

Most of this week was back to my favrite (or most hated) topic, algae and its roots and control . The Excel treatment that I started last week began to show effects after a few days, but progress of these effects is sloooow. During this water change I trimmed quite a bit on the left side, the Pearl Grass reached a height that made it not so pretty anymore. Also, I shortened the left side stem plants as they were starting to redirect the flow of the CO2 bubbles.

All this talk (or writing) here finally got to me , and I am willing to try things:

- Filter cleaning will be on a 3 week schedule. I cleaned it this weekend and boy, it was dirty. May explain where all my N and P come from.
- I shortened the bright light period to 1 hour, with 10 hours lights-on overall.

Let's see what that does to the algae and to the light hungry plants

As I don't have too many pictures of the tank from this week, let's start with a short review of the tank ever since the driftwood was added, in week 19. Here is the tank at that stage, a rather small plant load has survived the major overhaul at that time.

Attached Image:

Tank in Week 19



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By week 24, things showed signs that this was all not working too well. The one plant that did really great was the Pearl Grass, I guess I could have planted the whole tank with it.

The other plants started to have major thread algae attachments, and all my tall "grassy" plants (helferi, sags, and retrospiralis) had a hard time to re-settle after being moved.

Attached Image:

Tank in Week 24



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Week 29 was pretty much the beginning of going back to square one and stuffing the tank with fast growers, or at least the back of the tank.

Nevertheless, algae still made its mark and could not be eliminated. The reasons for this are probably a combination of all the things tetratech ever mentioned to me .

Attached Image:

Tank in Week 29



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Here is the tank now from last week, as a comparison to the next shot. Many areas in the tank became fuller (compared to the previous shot from week 29), in particular the foreground needed more plant because the bare gravel was/is an algae magnet, mostly for threads.

That week (34) the tank had just received a major trimming.

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Tank in Week 34



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Here is the tank now this weekend. I think one can clearly see that growth in the tank is at least great, if not exceptional . Star Grass and Hygro have gained quite a few inches and probably will need some trimming next week again if this continues at that pace (or two the longest).

You can also see the trimmed left side with the little mound of green plants in the foreground:

Attached Image:

Tank This Week - Week 35



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Now some shots that mostly focus on the fishies, all tanken at low tide during the water change. This are the times when the best schooling in the Espei group happens.

Here are "some" of them in the middle section of the tank. Also, I trimmed the Pearl Grass in that area and cut off some algae infested leaves of the Wendtii behind it.

Attached Image:

Espei in the Middle



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May I say "Paludarium"

Sometimes I think I should convert the tank into a half-filled paludarium as emersed branches are always appealing to me. On the other hand, I guess I need a little more water for the 100 fishies

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Paludarium



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Here is a (nice) shot of the tank Autobahn during water change. I don't know why, after so many weeks of doing this water change, the Espei always seem to worry that all the water will be gone. As such, they peruse the tank from left to right and back again, over and over.

This picture also shows you an overexposed look at the Wisteria foreground mound on the left of the tank with the trimmed Pearl Grass to its left. The Wendtii begind it also had its leaves trimmed (algae).

Attached Image:

Autobahn



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Here is a close look at the Espei group, hovering around the Wisteria mound.

Never ever did I see a situation in which all Espei swim into the same direction, at least one of the gang always appears to have a different opinion on where to go and what to do next. Wait a minute, isn't that how we work here as well ?

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Espei Closer



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Here are now a few pictures of some fishies other than Espei. Here is the male Apisto viejita II telling the surrounding fish to stay away from him. The rainbow looks like he is wondering why the Apisto doesn't want to play with him.

Oh, rainbows - I think I will add the 3 that are in the QT since 3 weeks a little later today. I hope the existing 5 (3m and 2f) will welcome them into their school, but new hierarchy "games" can be expected.

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Apisto



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Here are two of the 5 Rainbows in the tank, a male and a female. I think it is this female that sometimes worries me a little. She occasionally (so far 2 times within the last 3 weeks) seems to be on the onset of Dropsy, with her scales slightly sticking out.

I don't know if it is something in the water, or maybe she is egg-filled at these times. But the last time it went away within a few days by itself. Any guesses?

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Male and Female Rainbow



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Last shot:

An exceptionally rare good photo of my Pearl Gouramies. Tetratech - aren't they cute? Maybe you should think about getting these as your center fishies.

Oh, and if you wonder about my current Avatar, look at my entries in This Thread

Have fun,

Ingo

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Lady and Sir Pearl



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Well,

With regards to setting up the new tank and the shovelling of fish between tanks, nothing is going to well

I still don't have wood and there is none in sight, but that is not the reason for this entry.

As announced in one of the texts above (I guess the one with the rainbows), I was plannning on adding the 3 from the QT to the main tank. And what do I see when I get ready to fish them out? ICH

All 6 fish in the QT have ich. I immediately did a 60% and then another 60% water change, but I haven't added any med yet. I am not sure what to do, treat and risk plant and fish health or let them try to fight it off? I will think about it until the afternoon.

I assume it came in with either the Rams (from animal super store ) two weeks ago or with the Rainbows (from fish auction) 3 weeks ago, but I did not see it until today.

This messes up the moving plans for at least 4 weeks for this tank as there is no way any fish would go somewhere else before that

Here you can see the tail of the Platy. The white dots are Ich, in case you didn't know.

Grrrrr, Ingo

EDIT: This was entry 2222 in this log, maybe this is a lucky day after all.

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Platy Ich



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Post InfoPosted 28-May-2006 16:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Hi Ingo

Sorry to hear about the ich. What a pain. I'm far from an expert as you know, but I'll share my white spot experience. It always happens with new fish. I brought home a sailfin mollie & a plain white mollie & had them in QT. I noticed the sailfin acting strangely, funny shimmering movements & finally just laying on the bottom. I examined him as best I could and found the white spot. Shops were all shut on this Friday night & my LFS did not reopen until 10.30am next day. When I returned with the meds, the sailfin mollie was already dead, but clearly the remaining mollie was also sick. It was showing the spots & just laying on the bottom. Thought it was dead more than once. I followed advice given to me via this thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/27831.1.htm?15#& also advice in a pm Keith sent me. Basically this meant immediate 30% water change & treating with whatever white spot meds were available in LFS. Re dosing every three days, preceded by another 30% water change. The advice was to keep treatment up for minimum of 2 weeks (to make sure the disease was completely eradicated). During this time, the lights were to remain off, only minimal feeding, raise the tank's temperature & increase aeration. The recovery was so great, that this mollie gave birth while in the green murky water & has since gone on to have another lot of fry.

Depending upon what you use, be aware that some of the meds for white spot stain the silicone sealant in the tank, but plants usually cover that & it's in the QT tank anyway.

So that's what worked for me. I've heard others say they use a salt treatment, but I don't know the details. If you're interested, I can dig up Keith's pm & send it to you (it's on my work PC). if Keith reads this, I'm sure he send it to you himself.

Good luck with curing the ich.

Cheers
TW
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Robyn,

Thanks for the input. I do have ich med at home, one of the best from what I heard in the past (I used to have ich twice in my 29G when that was my only tank), called QuickCure from Aquarium Products. This means that I pretty much know how I would have to treat, the question is only "should I treat?" None of the 6 fish (3 platies and 3 rainbows) shows any signs of distress or slowing down. I will think about it over lunch.

I guess to be on the safe side I will add it. My "therapy" is a 1/4 of the dosage, half because of sensitive fish (yeah - they are not tetras, but better save than sorry) and half again for plants, every other day for two weeks. In between 50% water changes. I guess I have my work cut out for me.

Also, I was thinking about redoing the QT this weekend (bored and not much else to do with the 40G just not getting set up). You know, other substrate and what not. But all has to be scratched as I assumed the only fish I had to take care off during the change would have been the 3 healthy platies .

Thanks Robyn ,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-May-2006 17:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I've always used coppersafe at 1/2 dose with great success, but I would use what has been working. Could be another reason why a UV is a good investment.

Nice pic of the pearls. Ya know what, my rainbows have calmed down since putting them in and I'm starting to really enjoy them in the tank. The fence off once in a while, but otherwise swim together nicely. Maybe because there are now females they aren't going crazy.

Like the the Baby Duck. I usually get a couple landing in pool this time of year.

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Thanks tetratech

Yeah, I started treatment after we came back from the pool. This means the QT is off limits for any new fish for about 4 weeks (2 weeks treament plus 2 just to make sure).

Yeah, the pearls are nice, but so are your rainbows. Except - pearls do well as a pair while rainbows need a gang . So - go get more

Have fun,

Ingo


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Hey Ingo, I forgot to say how good the pictures were. Thinking more about your sick fishies, although it seems like you've caught it early if no-one is showing any signs of slowing down or distress, unlike mine who by the time I realised what was happening, it was too late for one of them. I agree with tetratech that you should use what worked before. I dosed at half strength, as there were rasboras in the tank too. Maybe that's why the fry survived the treatment (though I didn't even know they were there until I removed the meds after treatment - couldn't see a thing in there for 2 weeks).

Anyway, as usual the tank looks beautiful - your pics are always great.

Cheers
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Robyn,

Didn't even notice that you didn't say anything about the photos/main tank . I was too busy thinking about the Ich myself.

Yeah, I am glad that I caught it in time, actually I am even more glad that I caught it BEFORE adding the Rainbows to the main tank.

Lesson No.329: when transferring fish from tank to tank at home, first check the fish for an illness.

Yeah, I am confident that the fish in the QT will be fine (keeping fingers crossed though). What bugs me is all the extra work (bi-daily water changes) and the fact that I felt like really changing the tank today .

Ingo


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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Lesson No.329: when transferring fish from tank to tank at home, first check the fish for an illness.
Yep - for sure. Here's the next lesson:-
Lesson No. 330: when transferring previously sick fish, delay transfer for at least 2 weeks after recovery from treatment, in case of relapse.
As you know, I just learnt that one myself over the weekend. But I know from your earlier post, that you already knew this.

Anyway, good luck.

Cheers
TW
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There has not been much new to report about this tank in the last few days. I seem to identify a slight decrease in thread algae on the upper levels of the branches though. I cannot tell if this would be already the effect of the changes light period, or the cleaned filter, or the Excel that I sprinkled on them

The one thing that worries me a little is the fact that one of the female rainbows shows signs of dropsy. I mentioned this earlier as something that seems to come and go, but the last 2 days have been "blown up". She is still eating well, and also has the power to swim through the current of the spray bar, but she hangs more often by herself in less turbulent waters than she used to.

Otherwise, check my 40G Tank Thread for setup issues.

Ingo


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Ingo, sorry to hear about the rainbow. I think I lost 2 guppies to bloat. I removed them to QT (as I'd heard it is contagious - don't know if that's true though). I lost them both, as I didn't really know how to treat them. Tried a few treatments, but nothing worked.

If yours do end up having bloat, I'd be interested to hear your treatment.

Good luck with them.

Cheers
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The one thing that worries me a little is the fact that one of the female rainbows shows signs of dropsy. I mentioned this earlier as something that seems to come and go,


Could be just constipation. Can look a lot like bloat but will disappear in a couple of days.

Try feeding them a couple of thawed frozen peas, but remove the skin. Rainbows love these and will devour them , they also help keep the fish "regular".


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Try feeding them a couple of thawed frozen peas, but remove the skin
I think what I should try is to get the resulting frenzy on camera. No doubt all my fish in the 125G would go crazy over peas and I would probably have to spend 1 hour to remove the skin of enough peas so that the "sick" rainbow for sure would get her share.

I don't really want to separate her (additional stress) but it may be the best option in the long run. In particular because I currently treat the QT for Ich, she should probably better stay where she is.

Thanks,

Ingo


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LF,

Being I have been gone for some time. Whats the word on the Rams? I have kind of looked a few pages back but didn't see anything....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Wings,

- didn't make it, died within 3 days. Probably left me some ich as a reminder, treating the QT right now.

Ingo


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just wondering are the apistos showing signs of breeding yet? their such a great looking fish u should get them to breed...
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bratyboy2,

No visual signs of breeding yet. I think I mentioned it on my last weekly update, both male and female are out and about way too often to maintain any potential brood somewhere hidden in the tank. With this many fish (about 100) in the tank there is no way the fry would survive too long while the parents are gone. Maybe a few would, but as much as I know these fish grow very slow and as such would serve as "food" for a long time.

Thank you on the compliment on these fish, I really like them as well. I mentioned way back that the female with her yellow base color and black markings is just a stunningly beautiful fishie

Ingo


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LF,

Sorry about the rams.... We just got a batch of them in yesterday that look really nice. Might have to bring some home and try out my luck with them.

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 03-Jun-2006 14:36Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wings,

Just be careful. I would almost assume that your tanks will have to go through some settleing phase after the big move. Maybe you should wait until all has been identified as stable.

Question regarding my tank to all:

I just came back from the welding supply store and, needing a new CO2 bottle for the other tank anyway, I bought a 10lbs one. It will be hooked to this tank and the previous 5lbs will go on the 40G. The next choice I have to make is regarging the regulator. The new one I bought is supposedly better and more accurate (great needle valve) that the current one. Initially I thought about using this one on this tank, but I believe that a more accurate and stable setting is more important on the 40G, as mistakes would lead quicker to disaster.

Do you guys and gals agree?

Ingo


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Well,

Lucky me. Good that I decided to buy a bottle for the other tank, or this tank, as shortly after lights on in the basement I discovered that the current bottle was going on empty. The main pressure meter was already all the way down, although the bubble rate was still ok. The welding store did not have any 5lbs bottles anyway, so my only choice would have been the 10.

Anyway, here is the bigger bottle in place. Fits nicely. Oh, and btw, the color of the bottle is gray because the welding store distinguishes gases by the color of the bottle - CO2 = gray

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New 10 Pounder



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Another thing that happened even before the water change was an attempt to feed the female rainbows (yes, both of them) some peas. By now both show signs of dropsy, and the one with less severe signs is actually behaving more "sick", being close or at the survace at all times. So - how do I feed 2 rainbows with 100 hungry fish in the tank? I decided to capture them and place them in a plastic container and feed them there. All worked out except they didn't eat. Here they are:

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2 Female Rainbows in Container



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As you can see, in particular the left one has some major pine-coning going on. I thought about what to do and decided to add them to the QT. In the worst case, I would lose 8 fish, these two, 3 males rainbows, and the 3 resident platies. This decision was made even more difficult as the QT is currently undergoing Ich treatment. By evening, they looked and behaved the same, but they were eating flake food just as eagerly as usual.

Could it be that the problem is egg-load related?

Here is a close-up of the worse one:

Attached Image:

Dropsy



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OK, let's move on

Weekly Tank Update - Week 36

Not much has happened during this week, plants have been growing and algae seems to have been stable. This was a full week with the new light schedule, 10h total with 1h high light. I only trimmed one stem of the Hygro angustifolia, all other plants are planned to be pruned next weekend so I can add them to the new tank (keep an eye open for a new log then).

For comparison, here are a series of shots spanning the last 2 weeks since the last major trimming.

Here is the tank in week 34:

Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago - After Major Trimming



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Post InfoPosted 04-Jun-2006 13:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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One week after the previous shot, growth had been good, but nothing special though. I guess during the first week after a major trim the plants need to re-settle first before they can focus on growth.

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Tank One Week Ago



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Now here is the tank as of last evening. As you can see, growth has been strong. The Star Grass reaches the top in quite a few spots, and the Hygro is threatening to shade the whole right area even after I removed a major stem (is for now in the 29G). I also cut off a runner from the Wisteria, it was growing into the Blyxa, and placed it next to the Nana Petite. I might take the Petites out as well and add them to the 40G, will see.

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This Weekend, After Water Change



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Now here are a few closer shots of plants and fish.

To start off, this is the worst spot in the tank, with regards to gravel algae coverage. This happens although I weekly vacuum the front of the tank. I cannot remove the algae threads as they are attached to the gravel and I basically would have to remove the entire top layer in order to make sure that it is gone.

Attached Image:



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Here is a close-up of the Star Grass on, and close to, the surface. This picture was taken a while after the water change, so the bubbles can be attributed to the change and not "natural" pearling in my tank. I hope the plants will be able to grow for one more week without killing each other.

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Star Grass



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Here is a picture of the Narrow Leaf Java Fern. This plant has been doing nicely, maintaining a constant growth rate, albeit rather slow. This weekend, I separated one of the young plants onone of the leaves and planted it to the left of its mother at the spot where the main ranch of driftwood is splitting.

Also, you can see the nice green carpet of threads on the driftwood and the rock behind it. If it would be static only on these entities then I wouldn't mind at all, it would be the shortest foreground plant one could wish for.

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Narrow Leaf Java Fern



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Here is a close-up of the Hygro angustifolia forest on the right side of the tank. These plants are growing very nicely, in just a few weeks I creates enough material for this section and another 4 or 5 stems that are currently in the 29G.

In this picture you can also see a few of my other plants, from anubias over crypts and pearl grass to the Alternantheras.

Attached Image:

Hygro Field



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Make sure to look at the pictures on bottom of previous page

Now here is a shot of the area just to the left of the Hygro. The gravel is the same area as the close-up shot a few pictures back. The Alternanthera in this picture is also growing strong, and so is the Star Grass and the Wisteria. For some reason, ever since I did the major change when adding the wood - the Narrow Leaf Sags, Dwarf Sags, and Pygmy Chain Swords have been sub-par, to the point where they are dying off. Only a few seem to be able to maintain their size and keep on growing new leaves.

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Alternanthera in Green



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Here is a shot showing the entire middle section of the tank. In itself, this part would make a nice tank, maybe I should close off the sections to the left and right of it and only use this part.

Without even trying, I am sure that there are at least 10 different plant species in this picture. Some day I will have to start scaping that mess.

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Mid Section Of Tank



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Ok, now to a few fish pictures.

The first one is actually from the QT, this is the boss rainbow over there. I am curious how these two groups of 3 males each (3 in main, 3 in QT) will work out the hierarchy once I move the QT group.

This is the current boss rainbow fish in the QT.

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Male Rainbow



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As you can see from the last picture, no sign of Ich. All visual spots on the rainbows were gone within 3 days, the Platies needed a day or two longer. Nevertheless, treatment will go on for one more week, and then I will maintain them for another 2 weeks in the QT before considering to move them to the big tank. I have to be patient although I imagine a group of 6 males as a very nice formation.

Here is the Boss Male again.

Attached Image:

Boss Male



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Next, and second to last, is a close-up of the male Apisto in the greens of the tank. With the green background and the effects of the 6,700k lighting, it seems like his base color would be yellow, but it is actually more white.

He is a beauty and I am glad I got the pair, even if there would be no breeding ever. I have seem no aggression from this fish to any other in the tank, although the younger Espei tend to stay further away from the male, just to be sure they would not end up as a snak.

Attached Image:

Male Apisto



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Here is the last shot, of the male Apisto again. This time he is swimming in front of a background that shows his natural coloration a little better.

I find his fins to be very graceful, and so is the entire behavior of this fish. There is never a situation where he darts around, he always swims slowly and is on the lookout for foor (either on the substrate or from me). All other fish in the tank take flight when I come close (they may return later though), but not the Apistos. I always pet the glass in front of them and they seem to respond by coming even closer (I know - I lost it ).

That's it for now,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Male Apisto Again



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Post InfoPosted 04-Jun-2006 13:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Beautiful shots as usual Ingo. Always like to check them out. Glad the ich treatment is going well, but sorry to hear of the rainbows with suspected dropsy. I'll be interested to hear how you treat them. I lost 2 guppies to dropsy (I think - no pine coning though. They looked heavily pregnant, but being males, that wasn't the case). I tried a broad spectrum treatment and later tried sulfa, both to no avail. I hope you have better luck and that I can learn from your treatment.

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Good that I decided to buy a bottle for the other tank, or this tank, as shortly after lights on in the basement I discovered that the current bottle was going on empty

I don't know if you noticed, but I mentioned I think about 10 days ago that I had to refill my cansister on my 72g again. I also think I messed something up, because my low pressure gauge which usually reads around 10 to 20 psi is now all the way to the right at like 120

The 10lb is a good idea considering now with increased co2 I'm going thru 5lb bottles, what every 4 months or so.

Anyway, you probably don't have to take the fish out to feed them. Here's a pic of what I do to feed my rams who never get any food with the 40 or so tetras swimming around, plus two rainbows:

I simply put some food ( I usually do this with frozen bloodworms) right in the net and they swim into it. They seem to be more trusting than the cardinals



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My Scapes
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This is an awesome shot tetratech

Your rams swim right into the net for feeding, I love it. See, in my tank the male rainbows and Apistos would probably be in the net, while the females would not get a chance.
every 4 months or so
In my tank, the first 5lbs botte lasted about 23 weeks, this was when I was injecting less CO2. The last 5lbs bottle lasted only 13 weeks to reach the "almost empty" stage.

Robyn - I am not an avid fish treater. Dropsy can be cause by so many things that identifying the right medicine is a question of luck rather than symptoms. If the females will not improve within a few days, or if they get worse, then they will have to go to fish heaven

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Thanks LF!

You could see the male is completely inside the net and if you look closely you could see the bloodworms thru the netting.

Getting back to your tank, I like the shot on top page 91 and of course the male apisto.

Not to sound like a pitchman for UV, but your spending alot on your tanks why not add a UV. Not necessarily for GW, but to rid the tanks of pathogens that might be adding to the stress of new fish. Look what happened with my cardinals when I added the UV. I have a survival rate of like 95% as opposed to 50%. I'm pretty sure many fish carry these internal bacterial infections, etc but you would'nt know it until the fish is stressed. I haven't had any ich or other visible illnesses since adding the UV. My plants are obviously not hurting over it. I once posted a forum/poll about UV usage at APC and one Greg Watson replied that he uses one 24/7.





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and one Greg Watson replied that he uses one 24/7
- One Greg Watson

I will have to think about that. Basically I understand the profits, but so far the only fish to get ill in the tank are all 3 female rainbows (one a few months back that is euthanized by now). That seems to specific to be a coincidence. I wonder why that would be? Is there maybe some issue with female Dwarf Neon Rainbows?

Oh, when you get a chance, PM me your APC screen name as I forgot it a long time ago. Bensaf's and mine are not that hard to figure out.

Ingo


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Well, the fist female rainbow has been put down. After lights on this morning I noticed that she still was close to the surface at all times and rather often than not went up for air. Also, there were two noticable spots on each side that seemed odd, lighter in color with little to no texture, about 1/2 inch in diameter.

She didn't put up a fight when I captured her, she must have been really weak already.

The other one seems to be doing a little better, she is interacting with the male rainbows once in a while. Interestingly, she is the one with the more distinct cones.

Ingo


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If the females will not improve within a few days, or if they get worse, then they will have to go to fish heaven
Sadly, that's where mine went. Sorry about your Rainbow.

Cheers
TW
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Thanks Robyn,

I guess that kind of stuff happens, and we can only go so far when trying to "save" one or the other of them. Maybe the other one will pull through, she certainly is way more active now and eats well (although she did not like the peas that I tried to give her today again, one bite and she had enough of it, just like my son).

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Ingo,

I don't blame it with the peas. Yuck . Sorry to hear the other one didn't make it. Hopefully this will be the end of your fish troubles for a while. You have enough to worry about with setting up the new tank.

They tank pictures look great as usual. I still can't get over how cool that apisto is.

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Thanks Rick for the input,

Yeah, the Apistos are very nice, but I think your 10G would be too small for them (in case you wondered), for two reasons:

- The 8 fish you added this week
- The territory that a male Apisto requires to claim his own

All you have to do now is show these pictures to your wife very often until she likes them as much as you do. Once hooked it is easy to convince her that you would "have to have" a larger tank for them

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I've shown her pictures of a lot of tanks. The problem is she wants new furniture in the living room. So she is effectivly holding any large tanks hostage until she has a whole living room set.

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Yeah, I know how that goes. I had to promise to move out of my office in order to "squeeze" in the new tank for the basement.

You give some and you get some, in fish tanks and everything else in life.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Weekly Tank Update - Week 37

Gang,

I don't have too much to report on the tank this weekend as I was very busy yesterday setting up the 40G Breeder. That tank has now It's Own Log, in case you haven't seen it yet.

The biggest thing besides trimming was a dicovery that happened in connection with the other tank. When setting up that tank I thought that the light looks so much whiter than the one on this tank. I thought they may have given me the wrong bulb for the 40, but it is a 6,700K. So I assumed my light in the big tank may be buring out or something. I looked at the lights and what do I find: I have the 5,000K lights on as the main lights for 10 hours a day but added the 6,700K only for one hour midday. Could that be the reason for my algae problems? I think 5,000K is not bad, but could it be that it favors growth of algae more by not being optimum for plants? Let me know what you think.

On to the trimming: The tank was in serioud need of a trimming as I did let it grow so I have clippings for the 40. Unfortunately I don't have a before picture, but I will show the shots of the last 3 weeks and you can estimate on how tall the Star Grass and the Hygro angustifolia must have become.

Here is the tank 3 weeks ago, after its last trimming:

Attached Image:

3 Weeks Ago



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Just a week later, growth had already picked up again. I sure cannot complain about the speed with which my fast growers shoot up.

If it should be the case that they grow even faster with 6,700K all day then I will have to trim soon every other week.

Here is the tank 2 weeks ago.

Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago



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Last weekend was the time when the tank should have had a trim, but I decided to wait until this weekend. This is always risky as, in particular with the star grass, very little to no light reaches the bottom anymore and the lower parts of the plants start to rot. This, of course, is not good for the water condition.

Here is the tank last weekend, the Star Grass is already on the surface in various spots.

Attached Image:

Last Weekend



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Here is the tank now after this weekends trimming. The process was a bit unusual as I first went in and cut off some nice looking tops from the Star Grass, Hygro angustifolia, and Wisteria to add them to the new 40G. After that tank was set up I uprooted all star grass, weeded out the bad stems, and replanted the shortened stems.

I did not trim anything else as the day was winding down, when all was said and done I had spent 12 hours on the two tanks. As such, the tank doesn't look its best. I already switched which lights are on for the full day, to the 6,700K.

Here is the tank last night:

Attached Image:

This Weekend



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I also only have 2 detail shots.

The first one is of the Espei. Because I was messing around all day in the room (setting up the other tank), they must have been "a little worried". I have never seen them school so nicely for such an extended period of time and not only during a water change or when someone bangs at the tank. Let me tell you, 70 fish in formation is a beautiful sight that cannot be captured in a picture.

Here are some of the Espei in a colorful aquascape.

Attached Image:

Espei in Scape



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Last picture already:

This is the upper middle section after the trim. The Star Grass is not even really visible anymore, the bright green comes from a huge Wisteria stem that eventually will need trimming itself.

I took this picture because I like the color contrast between plants and wood.

Attached Image:

Colors



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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
Beautiful pictures LF.
When I started using timers and advocating timers on the
aquarium, my goal was to mimic the tropical noon day sun.

Our plants have been grouped into low, medium, and high
demand categories.

Generally the low demand plants are
plants that grow under a heavy canopy of overhead trees
that block out most of the light, and we figure these to
flourish with around 1-1.5 watts per gallon.

Medium demand plants generally receive some direct sunlight
during only a part of the day and spend the remainder
shaded. These flourish with 2 watts per gallon.

High demand plants grow out in the open and receive direct
sunlight all or most of the daylight hours. These plants
do best with 3+ watts per gallon.

In my 30G tank, I have two 65 watt, 6700K compact
fluorescent bulbs. Each has its own timer as I'm rarely
around to turn the things on/off with any regularity.
My canopy has two switches, one for each light and one
that turns on the fan/light combination. The light/fan
combination is connected to a timer that gives me 10 hours
of light at a 2.5 watt/gallon rate. The second light is
set for four hours in the middle of the 10 hours, to
simulate the directly overhead sunlight and gives me
4.3 watts/gallon, or, noonday sunlight on my tank.

In experimenting with fast growing stem plants, and slow
growing plants such as ferns and crypts, I have found that
allowing the stem plants to hit the surface and spread out
across it, provides a "canopy" that shades the low light
plants. It looks really natural, and at the same time
encourages the lower light demand plants to grow faster
and with larger leaves. I tried experimenting with the
thickness of the "mat" that the stem plants created, and
found that one or two layers were, for me, more ideal
than 3 or 4 layers. The larger number of layers made the
center of the tank a bit too dark, for me. It was just
too subdued.
I found that if I neglected to thin out the mat, and
then later "drastically" cut it back to expose
direct light on the plants, that some of my plants
would flower and then the flowers would close up over
a week or so as the stem plants were again allowed
to spread across the surface.

The Tetras that I have in the tank, seem to be more
comfortable with a one or two layer of plants across the
surface swimming throughout the tank, whereas they some
times avoided the open center "swimming area" when there
was just open space above.

Just some thoughts/observations.

Frank


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Frank,

Do you store these statements on your PC so you can pull them out whenever a related question arises or do you have to write these "books" over and over again

I assume your entry was in reference to my light question. I would like to thank you for this truely elaborate answer .

Ingo


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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi Ingo,
No, they are not stored. Yup, I wrote it in response to
your lighting comments. I guess it is the ex-teacher in
me that causes me to write tomes, instead of one liners.
The one burning question I have always had, and drove my
parents and teachers nutz with was a simple word...WHY.

I have never been one to accept something just because it
was told to me. Burnt fingers (something was hot that
should not have been), and painted fingers (is it really
wet) were sort of my "trademark."
Honestly, I hope it helped you, or at least gave
you something to think about, and I hope it helps
your readers.

Frank



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Frank,

That is a wonderful analysis of how one's canopy affects the other plants in the tank. I hope aquarists will take advantage of that very nicely crafted response.

Makes me think about my tank alot as my main center area reaches the top every few weeks. I actually love the way it looks sometimes with the plants growing across the surface, but if I keep it going to long my Blyxa and riccia are out of luck, but as you point out when the canopy is trimmed I could see the Blyxa and Riccia smiling again.

Well done

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Frank - - I can imagine how you used to simply talk a student silly when he/she questioned why he/she got a particular grade on a test.

Thanks again for writing so much on the topic on lighting, and shading, but I nevertheless have to dig into my original question again:

Could it be that the fact that the 5,000K were on for 10 to 11 hours, and the 6,700K only for 1 to 3 hours, has caused my algae issue to be as bad as it is?

On the general statement of shading and plants growing along the top, I couldn't agree more with you. Every time I do a water change the plants hanging over the rest of the tank look just stunning. But, be carful what you shade out. I once lost almost all my Ludwigia because I decided that my Crypt Retrospirals floating over it looks very nice. Almost too late did I discover the fact that half the Ludwigia were already dead.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi Ingo,
Back to the original question... Answer - I'm not sure.

Ben seems to think that algae is caused, not necessarily
by the light, but by the nutrients or lack of within any
given tank.

I suspect, in your case, that the problem lies with what
you have in the tank as plants. You are trying to
house over a dozen different species, all with different
demands, in the same tank.

The difference in lighting, I don't believe, is helping
your situation at all and frankly, I'd switch to two lights
of the same K rating. As you probably can guess, I'd use
the 6700K rating for my choice. The 5000K rating is more at
the red end than the 6700K. While I mention that, keep
an eye on the age of the bulbs. As they age, they shift
in output. Not necessarily so drastically that we
humans notice it, but they do shift in Kelvin rating
as the bulb ages. I have seen, and read about, algae
retreating when aged bulbs are replaced. To combat that
in my tank, when it comes time to replace my Compact
Fluorescent bulbs, I throw away the bulb that is the
10hr/day bulb, and move the 4 hr/day into its place.
Then I place the new bulb into the 4 hr slot and so on
each year.

With light as the engine, and the nutrients as the fuel,
the plants grow. As we know, they take up nutrients at
different rates, depending upon the species. Also some
species are more adept at taking nutrients from the water
column, and others from the substrate depending upon the
chemical form of the nutrient. Perhaps you have added
some form of nutrient that is tipping the scales as it
is not usable in its current form by some/many of the
plants.

Have you removed the bulk of the "fast growing" plants
and, over time, replaced them with too few slow growing
plants, or vice versa?

I realize I'm casting a rather large net here, but I don't
honestly know THE problem with your tank. I suspect that
the tank has aged as a whole, and all of the changes that
have occurred, along with the plant mix, and the nutrient
"soup" has lead to the algae problem. It took my 55 a
little over a year, with growing Oscars in it, to mature
and settle down. All these variables... the scale has
tilted to favor algae.

Lots to think about, but nothing definitive to act on.
Perhaps Ben might have some thoughts...

Frank


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EditedEdited by bensaf
To be honest having tried all sorts of bulbs (At the moment I have a strange mixture of 10,000K, 12,000k and 4,700k) I've never seen anything to suggest that plants prefer one spectrum over the other and certainly nothing to suggest one spectrum promotes algae more then another.

Where the more reddish spectrums do have a problem is penetrating the water, the vast majority of the light is dissapated before it gets down to the bottom. This may cause issues where the lower tiers of plants are not getting enough light and don't grow as well as they could.

This may cause issues but it's an indirect impact rather then a direct "5000k is no good for plants" or "5000k promotes algae" thing.

I'd certainly change it around and have the 6700k on most of the time. If nothing else the tank will look better to the eye.


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I'd certainly change it around and have the 6700k on most of the time
That is what I did this weekend. Actually, I literally had to switch the bulbs in the unit as one row is connected to the fan (the one that comes on midday when all lights are on) and simply switching powercords in sockets would have meant that the fan would have been on all day. That, in turn, is noisy, a waste of energy, and burns out the fans faster.

I hear you Bensaf on the K not directly causing the algae, but I also read the indirect effects it can have. This makes sense to me and I can assume that the earlier constellation of my lights caused more bottom plant rotting and as such more algae. I guess the switch should help then.

On a different topic: I had to put down the other female rainbow in the QT last night, she was not eating anymore and constantly on the surface . That means that the only fish I lost so far in the big tank (don't count initial loss of Otos) are all 3 female rainbows. Coincidence?

Ingo


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Hi,
Interesting...
Actually, I would recommend that you run the fan all the
time a bulb is burning. In other words, the exact opposite
of the way you have yours set up. Compact Flourscent
bulbs burn hot. The heat in combination with the humidity
can cause the electrical insulation to become brittle and
crack. Additionally, the heat can affect the clear plastic
pannel that slides between the bulb and the tank (splash
guard).
In my fish room, I run three computers and two transmitters
all with fans, 24/7/365, so I don't even notice the
fan noises.

I suggest that you might want to reverse your thinking on
the light/fan.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 13-Jun-2006 17:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Frank,

Good thinking, but no .

The fixture is designed to have the fans on only when all 4 lights (96w each) are turned on. Heat emission is not an issue with 2 lights only (remember, they form a line and are not paralell to each other) and the smaller units (any single strip PC from Coralife) don't even come with fans.

In addition, the unit is elevated on legs so enough air circulation is present around the lights. And on top of it all, the tank is in the basement that is rather cool, even during hot summer months.

I a room where the Eheim filters hum so quietly that I have to get real close to check if they still work, the sound of two fans is really obvious. Right now, I can hear the bubbles emitting from the diffuser, that is pleasant, in particular if just one floor up the monsters (aka kids) are on the lose.

Silence and tranquility, nothing goes better with fish

Ingo


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I suggest that you might want to reverse your thinking on the light/fan

Interesting, I do currently have my fan on all day, only because it's linked to the front bulb of my fixture and I want the bowfront to get the most light possible. I also have a coralife dual cf and it only comes with one fan. I used to have a Current USA fixture that was also dual cf and it actually came with 2 separate fans on their own powercords and it was a real pain to plug in 4 separate fixtures. The coralife fixtures do run surprisingly cool and even with my fixture sitting only an inch or so above the glass top there are no issues. The Current USA fixtures used to run extremely hot even with the two noisy fans running. I have a very low opinion of their products and they can't hold a candle to Coralife.

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Oh, speaking of brands and the quality of their products:

Nice story, I ordered 3 200W Stealth heaters a little while ago, one for the 40, and one each for the 125 and 29. Before that, I already purchased 2 of them. Overall, I opened 4 packages so far (the fifth is still in the box) and 2 of them had pieces missing (suction cups and holders for them).

So, on Sunday I e-mailed the maker of the heaters stating that issue and on Monday morning I had a reply asking me for my address and that they are going to send out these pieces asap.

Very nice,

Ingo


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tetratech
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Nice story, I ordered 3 200W Stealth heaters a little while ago, one for the 40, and one each for the 125 and 29. Before that, I already purchased 2 of them. Overall, I opened 4 packages so far (the fifth is still in the box) and 2 of them had pieces missing (suction cups and holders for them).


That's Marineland right? That could also be a distributor issue also? If the boxes don't have a wrapping on them those little parts end up falling out alot.

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No tetratech, that's Aquarium Systems. And the heaters are sealed in a plastic container too strong to be opened with the teeth.

I also told them that, in particular because of the solid packaging that had not been tempered with, I decided not to e-mail the distributer (reseller) but them directly.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Oh O.K. I thought it was one of those unwrapped boxes with the stuff just thrown inside.

Anyway talk about quality control. I bought a pair of Nike Shox. Actually my wife did because I tore a ligament in my knee and she thought the extra cushion would help. So I'm walking around, just walking and "boom" I go down, one of the shox fell off. So here I am wearing these sneakers to help me and they hurt me. I returned them for another pair and a week later "boom" a shox falls off the second pair. Serious manufacturer defect, so I go back again and the retail store wouldn't take them back because I didn't have my receipt this time.

I don't tink so Let's just say the store was unable to ring up any more merchandise until they reconsidered and gave me credit.

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So taking care of the customers: At my store the bosses wont carry a product if the the owners of that product wont back the store on issues with it. If the store doesn't get backed then it is hard to help the customers.

Lighting: On my tank I have a mix of fast and slow growers. Much more fast than slow growers. I don't really know what I want to do with the tank yet but I am thinking of putting all the slow growers tucked up clow the fast growers. Hoping that this will kill off any of the spot algea I have been gettng on them.

Rainbows: Are these guys touchy with Ph swings? I have been losing them in my tank really slowly with no signs. In my tank right now the Ph is about 7.2 in the AM before the lights/CO2 come on, about 6.8 at night right before the lights/CO2 go off. Normal Ph for here is about 8.2 or 8.4. Might this be the cause for loss?

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tetratech - I can only imagine how you were holding the store hostage

wings - I don't think a ph swing of 0.4 would cause too many fish to die. I recently was at my most trusted LFS and mentioned the loss of all of my females. The guy in charge of ordering said that he loses quite a few of them during shipment. Maybe they are not all that hardy, but he has no explanation on why I may have lost only females. Also, if I remember that right, then females also have a deeper body when they mature. Mine never did and they were rather streamlined. Just maybe I didn't even have female rainbows.

Ingo


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tetratech - I can only imagine how you were holding the store hostage
Yeah I guess I was kinda holding the store hostage or more like "a fly in the ointment" I was really pissed.

Anyway should I be worried about my Bosemani. How long did you guys have them before seeing problems?

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I have my rainbows since at least 3 to 4 months, I can check for you.

I don't think you should be worried though as all males are doing just great.

Ingo


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Anyway should I be worried about my Bosemani.

I have had two male bosemani's in another tank for about 3 years now with no problems what so ever. Its the dwarf blue neon rainbows that are dropping dead on me. Don't seem to be having too many problems with that at work though. Don't see them coming in dead or anything like that or dropping like flys once we get them. That's probaby why ours are 2.99 a pop and yours are... well a lot more.

How much swing are your tanks running?

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Currently, juvenile Dwarf Neons are $20 at my LFS.

My swing is probably from 7 just before lights on down to 6.5 before lights out. All normal, as in nature swings occur as well, but actually I believe they occur the other way around.

Ingo


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I think I paid $12.99 a piece for my Bosemani, 2 for $25.

BTW - My ph is around 6.0 at nite with a kh of 2 or 3. I'll have to test tomorrow morning to find swing.



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Tetra,
You are about the same as me for the Bosemani but I should probably start shipping dwarf blues to LF. It would probably be cheaper even with shipping.

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It probably would, Wings, I will have to think about that.

Do you folks have females in the store? If so, how do they look different from the males? I would need about 9 females

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Ok,

I have to talk ferts again, sorry about that

While suggesting to someone else here to read up on EI and stuff, I saw that he has an EI "light" for the less techical aspects of the Estimative index article on his site. Curious as I am (), I looked into it and found some estimates for dosing a tank of my size. I then compared it to what I am dosing and find that I am rather way off in certain areas (my values in brackets):

100 - 125 Gallon Aquarium
+/- 1 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week (yup - right on)
+/- 1/2 tsp KH2P04 3x a week (1/8 - way off)
+/- 1/2 tsp K2S04 3x a week (not at all - way off)
+/- 1/2 tsp (30ml) Trace 3x a week (60ml TMG - double)
50% weekly water change (yup)

What do you think?

Ingo


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I have to talk ferts again, sorry about that

You should be!

To what end. To make your algae go bye-bye or to make the plants grow better? If the plants are growing well which I think they are, why do you keep turning to the ferts as the problem. I've changed so many differenct dosing schemes in my tank. Added fe, double my micro dosing, moved up my no3, moved down my no3 not for algae but to see if I could get more red, etc and it didn't affect algae one bit.




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You should be!
- Ok, I am

I don't know for what specific purpose I brought that up, it was just a general observation on how far off I am from the "default" EI values. For example the fact that I dose 1/4 of the P that is set here.

In general, this makes me wonder if what I am doing dosing wise with my tank can actually still be considered "following EI". Or, is EI layed out so broadly that it's only commonality is to have ferts (of all kinds) available to the tank at any point, and as such they are overfed to avoid a short-coming?

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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
40-60 Gallon Aquariums (figured this was better than the 20-40 gallon)
+/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week (yup)
+/- 1/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week (yup)
+/- 1/8 tsp K2S04 3x a week (1/2 tsp, ouch)
+/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week (umm I have been giving them two 2L caps of flourish, whatever that is.
50% weekly water change (Yup)

Plants grow (yup)
Algea (just a little green spot but I think thats cuz my low light plants are not shaded enough)

Edit: I vote for the lader.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Or, is EI layed out so broadly that it's only commonality is to have ferts (of all kinds) available to the tank at any point, and as such they are overfed to avoid a short-coming?


Yeah, kinda of? LF every plant needs it's ferts, light, carbon, but every tank is somwhat different and how it will react to the available light, shade, fish load, plant mass, types of plants. There are too many variables. You need to find the thing that works for your tank. If the plants are growing well forget the ferts that's for fine-tuning. You must look at light,waste,load to balance tank my young grasshopper.

And after Germany wins in the 90th minute!




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And after Germany wins in the 90th minute!
At least we win

Yeah, but there is a difference between fine tuning and using 4 times the amount of KH2P04 and 1/2tsp of K2S04 or none at all .

How do I know how well my growth could be if I had other fert dosages?

Ingo


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LF,
Best thing to do is to set it and don't mess with it for months. If you want to change something do it little by little and then run that for a while.

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Do you folks have females in the store? If so, how do they look different from the males? I would need about 9 females

Females? Less color on body and fins, and a little fater than the more colorful males? Yeah we have a handful of them.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
and a little fater than the more colorful males
Fatter? How about depth? Is the female's body as deep as the male's? I perused the web for female Dwarf Neon Rainbows and while most pictures seem to show males, the few that I found that are titled female seem to show the shape of a male with a different fin coloration.

Now, here is once again a shot of 2 of my rainbows, one male and the other supposedly female. Wings, is that how your females look like?

Ingo

EDIT: While the males over the last few months went from the pictured shape to the deeper bodied adult form, the females never changed their shape.

Attached Image:

Female and Male???



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LF,
Yup you have it right. Female on the left, male on the right. Females tend to be a little thicker from left to right or right to left also. Biggest differences are fin color and body height.

I am not sure on a complete count from work but we have a good handful of them.

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From the pictures on page 91(we going to hit 100 soon?) the tank seems to still be doing nicely. I agree with the statement on EI, that it mostly doesn't matter as long as things are balanced and the plants are getting plenty of ferts. I used up all of my hour( community internet ) just reading the last couple pages in this thread, so the response is short, .



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Thanks for the input Wings and Matty

Matty - While the tank is still doing nicely, it is not doing great. I would like to see some changes soon as by now there is very little design left and lots of sucking up ferts going on.

Which brings me to:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 38

Very little to nothing has happened with this tank during this week. It seems that I see a slow come-back of the BBA now that I stopped the Excel treatment for 2 weeks, I believe.

When I look at this tank these days I am getting very restless. I am aware that I have too many fish in there and also that the scape is nowhere near of what I thought the tank should look like. All is pointing towards a major overhaul yet again, but we all know what that did the last time around. Definately the large wood will have to change, in particular the big stomp part of it has to go and most likely the overall position had to be moved further off center.

Otherwise, growth is just fine, this weekend I had to thin out the Hygro group quite a bit as it got too tall and shaded the right tank side way too much. While trimming I also removed some other plants by accident and had to replant them as well.

Here is the tank last weekend, for comparison purposes:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend, Week 37



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And here it is now. Also, two stems of the Alternanthera had to be trimmed (bottoms disposed) as they reached the surface. While it doesn't look bad now, it doesn't look good either

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Week 38, This Weekend



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I am also wondering which plants from this tank will go into the new 40G. There is for sure the Blixa and most likely the 5 Anubias Nana Petites that I have, and also maybe the Java Fern (Narrow Leaf) that is pictured here. I hope this plant will not break when I will try to remove it from its lodged position between the wood and the rock behind it. One thing is for sure, it has grown nicely from these 5 little leaves that it originally was.

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Narrow Leaf Java Fern



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On to a few fish pictures. First off - a rainbow. Although it is not that obvious when you look at these fish in the tank directly, the pictures alway make it clear that they truely have puppy eyes that always seem to focus on the camera (counts for tetratech's rainbows as well).

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Male Rainbow



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I spent about half an hour after this weekends water change searching for my female Apisto. I am always worried that the small fish I have somehow get lost or that I cut them in half when I trim the plants. Fortunately, I eventually found her. She has one of these "mostly hiding" phases that may be breeding related.

Anyway, here is a nice sequence on how male and female communicate these days. This shot shows the moment after the female reaches the back of the male during an encounter. I immediately spreads his fins and shows off all his beauty, but given that the black bar under his eye is not showing I assume it is meant to be a friendly encounter.

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Apistos I



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Can you see how his eye seems to be fixed on her?

Next, as he lets his finnage down a little, the female starts to show off, here is is just about to spread them.

Attached Image:

Apistos II



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And lastly, he follows her signs and spreads his fins again. Then, he dissapears into the plants, but she is not following him. Instead, she has her own area, somewhere in the Anubias realm, where she seems to hang out.

What does that mean? - I have no idea,

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Apistos III



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Last but not least,

In case you wonder (), as I mentioned before, I always have an Anubias (Nana and/or Barteri) in bloom, but most of the time the flowers are not standing out before a dark background and as such don't make for a nice picture. This weekend, I trimmed of 3 flower stems that were pretty much done, I have another one on its way out, one that is coming in, and this one here.

Have fun, as usual input is appreciated,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Anubias Flower



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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Everything looking beautiful as usual. But don't those apisto fins look especially fine when spread. Very nice

Cheers
TW
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Thanks Robyn,

Yeah, the spread finnage is really beautiful, I agree. He does the same thing when he is telling other fish to stay away from him, except he has a black bar below his eye (running through the eye downwards) in that case. He can turn that bar off and on within seconds (or a second).

Ingo


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Quick comments, becuase it's Father's Day, but if the plants are growing well then forget the ferts, EI is working. I read thread and thread again on APC and other forums where people are running alot of light on big tanks and they can't contain algae growth. 380-400 watts is alot of light and it gives you no room for error. Error is fish load, fish waste, feeding, inadequate biofilter, inadequate plant mass, not enough water changes. Even if you running all the lights for only a few hours a day it will grow algae.

It's really not that complicated once you see the bigger picture.

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It's really not that complicated once you see the bigger picture.


Tetra,
I guess you are saying that LF doesn't get it yet?

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I don't get it



Sure do I hear you tetratech, but I am not going to flush 50 Espei down the drain

Actually, I wasn't complaining about the algae during this posting session, I was complaining about the design of things

Ingo


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tetratech
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Oh I know you get it LF and of course my comments are just that my comments. I was about to respond to Wings by saying when you have a big tank setup it's hard to make big changes to correct a problem.

Right now I have a pretty heavy load in my tank so I'm not exactly practicing what I'm preaching, but there is a difference in how I got to my heavy stocking levels and how you got to yours. I think my stocking levels came at a much slower pace than yours did. I slowly added cardinals 5 at a time, then after months I added the two rainbows and finally the two small rams. As you know tanks always do better with slow gradual changes. That's how nature works it's magic!





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I didn't quite add 100 fish at a time either. When you look at the fish that I added then you would end up with:

- 12 espei
- 3 rainbows
- 2 pearls
- 6 otos
- 2 apistos

And that is it

Not all that much, given about 7 months until all these had been added. If it wouldn't be for the 100 babies then I would be in good shape

Ingo


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If it wouldn't be for the 100 babies then I would be in good shape


100 baby espei
1400 poops between water changes (200 poops per day x 7)
390 watts of cf lighting

= PROTIST ORGY

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Hi,
I was reading Wings' fert listing, and for my 30G tank
I decided to knock down the amounts a tad to use say,
a 1/4 tsp vs the half, etc. Right now, I still have
the cyanobacteria, but, I also now have very fine hair
algae growing at the upper levels with the strands
"flowing" in the currents.. Actually looks nice, but will
soon turn into a problem.

Have any of you guys actually tested your water just
before your water changes to see what kind of nitrate
and phosphate readings you have after adding this stuff
three times a week?
Frank


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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
PROTIST ORGY


Geeeez, a guy goes on vacation for a week and his favorite plant/ fish site turns X rated!

Nice pics as usual, LF. Your algae problem seems to be much more under control now


Back in the saddle!
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Have any of you guys actually tested your water just
before your water changes to see what kind of nitrate
and phosphate readings you have after adding this stuff
three times a week?
Frank


Frank,
Sounds like your "Micromanaging your macros"
LF's plants are growing quite well. I could tell you I fool around with my po4 and no3 dosing all the time for color and growth reasons and it doesn't bring out algae one bit and I've had po4 levels over 5.0ppm (according to the test kits anyway) LF's algae issue is LAW (Light and Waste).

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LF's algae issue is LAW
I like that, sounds somehow good. As in:

"I had no other choice, it's the LAW!"

Thanks NowherMan6 I missed you. Yeah, it is pretty stable now with the same amount of algae, that's why I consider messing with the design again (slapping myself so you guys don't have to).

Frank - 30G, that is net about maybe 25G. I have 5 times the volume and feed 1.5tps 3x per week, and at the end of the week I probably have around 20 to 40 ppm, and maybe 5 ppm of P. But I haven't measured in ages.

Ingo


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Frank,
Last time I checked my Nitrate before the water change I had about 20ppm. I figure thats pretty good up take when I have added in about 33ppm + fish load and over extra food. I will do some testing and get back to you say.... in a week. One big factor I am looking at with this is plant mass ( with fast and slow growers) pluse lighting. I have a ton of fast growers and very few slow growers in my tank. With that I am running 3.25 WPG for about 12 hours/day. This is a little more that most are doing for lighting so you just kind of estimate and see what happens.

Do I get it tetra?

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Gang,

Still having a broken router in the house, and as such no internet access, I was having a little too much time on my hand last evening and decided to add the Rainbows from the QT into the main tank. For the ones that don't know it, and the ones that may not remember, I had 3 Neon Dwarf Rainbows each in this tank and the QT.

So, here is a little picture story:

Moving Rainbows in 9 Acts

Act 1: The Bag

The rainbows were not the hardest to catch in the QT (compared to Espei it was easy). Here they are in the bag:

Attached Image:

In the Bag



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Act 2: The Release

After about 1.5 hours of acclimatization, the rainbows were releases into the tank. They instantly went into semi-hiding at the Pearl Grass all the way to the right of the tank, just below the bag they had been in. This shot was taken about 20 seconds after the last rainbow left the bag:

Attached Image:

Rainbows in Pearl Grass



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Act 3: Starting to Move

2 minutes later the whole group moved out of the Pearl Grass and into the open area to the left of it. They held this position for about 2 more minutes, always in close proximity to each other. The 3 rainbows that are already in the tank did not come anywhere near.

Attached Image:

Moving Out



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Act 4: First Encounter

The first fish to confront the new additions was the male Apisto. As you can see, he was not too thrilled about the rainbows (black bar under the eye is visible, unlike his showing off in recent pictures towards his girl). With him coming from the right there was no other way for the rainbows then to swim all the way to the left of the tank.

Attached Image:

Apisto Displaying



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Act 5: Making Friends

With the Apisto still on their tails, the first meeting of new and a resident rainbow took place. So far, 5 minutes have passed since the rainbows were added. BTW, during all that time (and counting for the next pictures as well, Espei and Pearls ignore the rainbows and are ignored by them).

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First Friend



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Act 6: First Formation

Finally, about 7 minutes after addition, the rainbows found each other and formed a school for the first time (to the backdrop of a 50 Espei school). This was most likely due to the fact that the Apstio was as agressive as I have never seen him before.

Attached Image:

The School Comes Together



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Act 7: Playing in Formation

For the next 2 minutes, rainbows played with the formation, individuals breaking away and coming back, changing positions, and what not. This may be truly the beginning of 2 groups coming together and starting to evaluate the new ranking order.

Attached Image:

Play in the Formation



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Act 8: Intruder Alert

All internal group activity was halted for a while as the Apistos were not yet done with explaining who rules this tank. As you can see, the female comes at them from the front and the male from the back, putting them in a position where a confrontation is unavoidable. And so it happened, the male Apisto made physical contact, nipped at the tail fin of one rainbow and attacked another from the side. I hope that will stop soon. I will be able to validate any damage tonight.

Attached Image:

Apistos on the Attack



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Act 9: The Finale

Whenever the Apistos gave them a break, the rainbows went back into formation. At the time of this picture I felt that the acclimatization was completed as the internal rank fights started. The individual leaders of the two groups were the first to have show-off fights, establishing who is going to be the boss of the new bigger group. I am most certain that quite a few of these fights will still come within the next few days until all is straightened out.

The End

Attached Image:

Internal Ranking Games



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Nice pics LF. I really like the one (2nd from bottom) where the two apistos are on either end.

You know when I first started doing my 72g I swore I would make it an S.A. Biotope, but obviously that didn't happen since I have fish and plants from S. America and Asia.

My Bolivans and now the Rams pay no attention to my two rainbows. The only aggression I see is the rainbows chasing some of the tetras mostly after lights out.

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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 15:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Beautiful pictures of beautiful fish. I have serious camera envy & wish I could take pics like these.

Cheers
TW
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TW,
Feel your pain with the camera issue. But some day soon things might change.

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Hey, no envy or jealousy please,

Or I send you some of my algae issues

Thank you very much for the comments on the pictures. I actually was hoping you would find the story (aka observation) at least to some degree interesting as well

Ingo


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Of course the story was interesting & I hope the apisto decides to live & let live in peace. However, your pics can't help to tell the story, especially the one with both male & female apisto both facing off the rainbow shoal.

Cheers
TW
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Robyn,

I know, the words were only to carify the pictures, in case they didn't make any sense by themselves

Last night there was still the occasional stand-off with fins spread out by the male Apisto, but I have not seen any further physical contact between them. Also, everybody seems to still have all their eyes, a good thing. So I guess that means all is good.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 10:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 39

Not much new to report on the tank for this week, I guess things are getting boring now. The only change was the addition of the 3 male Dwarf Neon Rainbows from the QT (yes, I know, even more fish in the tank), all of which are doing well.

There was no major trimming required and all I did was to prune off some of the leaves that had some algae on them (BBA is coming back slowly).

Here is the tank during the last two weeks, followed by a few fish shots and a hint on something (more later).

That was the tank after the last major trim 2 weeks ago

Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago



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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 11:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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One week later, the Star Grass had grown a little and the Hygro group saw some more trimming as additional stems were removed so that they could help filling up the 40G.

Attached Image:

One Week Ago



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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 11:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The only trimming done this weekend that was not algae related concerned the Wisteria. A few stems had to be cut because they were growing into the plants near by. These trimmings currently float in the 20G QT as the 40G seems to have enough plants in it.

Here is the tank now:

Attached Image:

Tank After Water Change This Weekend



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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 11:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is a shot of the Espei about 1 minute after the lights in the tank went on. Like almost all fish, they are pretty pale and it takes about 15 min before their bright orange returns. I find fish coloration an amazing thing, in particular when they can change colors at will (like the bar under the eye of the male Apisto):

Attached Image:

Espei in the Morning



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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 11:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Speaking of the Apisto, here is a shot of the male, just for the fun of it and because Robyn just recently got her Apistos (although they are a different species, but never the less somewhat related). He is, BTW, no longer chasing after the Rainbows, I assume they know by now that he is their boss. The only fish in the tank that doesn't think so is the male Pearl, he is completely unphased by the Apisto's prouncing.

Attached Image:

Male Apisto



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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 12:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And speaking of the male Pearl, here is a group shot of male (on the left) and female Pearls, a rainbow peeking in, and the female Apisto telling all of them to leave her alone.

The male Pearl spends a good part of the day chasing the female Pearl through the tank. I doesn't look like he follows her, it's more like he want's her to go away. Nevertheless, she is always coming back to him. Love? I don't know.

Attached Image:

Group Shot



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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 12:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And here is the tip (or whatever I wrote on the last page) that I was speaking about. Being the lazy bum that I am, I find the routine of cleaning the glass diffuser rather involved. Bathing the whole thing in a bleach solution, then rinsing it in a Prime solution, and then adding it back into the tank takes time and is to some degree a waste producer (bleach and conditioner down the drain).

Almost by chance, I tried the following:

Having my diffuser rather high up in the tank exposes the top part during water changes for about 15 to 30 min (I will have to time it some day). As soon as the top is in the open I swipe the water off it and drip Flourish Excel on it until it is covered (the area above the plate). And that is it - and what can I say, I haven't bleached the sucker in about 4 t 5 weeks now and it is still clean. You can see the difference from before adding Excel to 20 min later.

Maybe you want to give this method a try, it is better for the environment and seems to work well. I have not done it long enough to conclude that one never has to bleach again.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Diffuser - New Cleaning Method



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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 12:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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I'm lazy too, so I'll try your tip at next waterchange.

Cheers
TW
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Good idea Robyn,

Let us know how (and if) it worked for you. Try to make sure that you remove as much tank water from the area above the plate as possible, then fill that area (should not be more than about 3ml)with Excel, and let it sit for a while (15 min should do). The advantage on my big tank that it takes at least that long from exposure to refill as so many gallons have to go out and back in.

You could also try to lift your diffuser a little higher for the procedure (to give the Excel more time to do its work without prolonging the water change itself), a complete removal should not be required.

Again, keep us posted,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 14:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I still think you guys should get an external reactor and forget about cleaning alltogether.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 16:33Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi Matt,
I'm inclined to agree with you, especially when I purchased
a difuser for my 30G tank and the thing flopped. It was
rated for the 20G tank. It came with a suction cup
but the "glass bud" on the side of the difuser won't
slip on and hold the difuser in place. So I tried to
bury the delivery tube in gravel and prop the
difuser upright with a rock, but the tube kept working
up through the gravel. And the bubbles never did change
from one or two big bubbles into the bunches of micro
bubbles. The difuser is sitting in the box it came in.

I have thrown my internal reactor away. It demanded
even more cleaning than the difuser because it was inside
the tank (an eyesore that took up space) and was exposed
to the tank light, it would clog up with algae. To clean
the passages, I needed pipe cleaners, running water, and
lots of patience.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 16:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Little Caesar
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hey!! i just happened to click on this 95th page and saw some pics a few posts ago of your tank. it looks really nice. i really like the yellowish fish with the black dorsal fin that is under your pearl gouramis. since i am not inclined to read 95 pages of posts (LOL), is there any way you can tell me what species that is, because I really like it. is it a dwarf cockatoo cichlid?

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Post InfoPosted 25-Jun-2006 20:27Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here we go,

I am writing about this great method that I figured out on how to clean a diffuser environment friendly, and what do Matty and Frank do? - Tell me I should not use one

Well, I happen to be pretty happy with mine (in 2 tanks), they are cheap, easy to clean (with Excel ), and look pretty fashionable.

Anyway, thanks for the input to both of you, Matty - I know that you have this cool self-made inline reactor, but I have enough stuff behind the tank and I like the sound of a diffuser.

Little Caesar - Close on the guess of the fish. It is a female Apistogramma viejita II. She is a beauty, isn't she?

On a different note: Would you folks be so kind and look at my 20G Log in the Aquascaping Forum? I have something new there On Page 5. Also, I would appreciate if a Moderator or Administrator who may read this would be so nice and move that log (and please the 29G log at the same location) to this forum. I would really like to have all my logs over here in the Planted Forum, that is more where they belong to. Thanks in advance, to the mods for moving the stuff and anybody else who may add a comment to it.


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jun-2006 03:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Anyway, thanks for the input to both of you, Matty - I know that you have this cool self-made inline reactor, but I have enough stuff behind the tank and I like the sound of a diffuser.


Ah LF, I know by now that you have settled on your method of choice, I just like to give you a hard time about it any chance I get. I'm glad you found an easier way of cleaning it, sounds like it makes them easier to use.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jun-2006 04:17Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi LF,
Your wish is my command... Your thread is moved.

I don't recall saying anything about not using the
difuser. I know you, Ben, and others, swear by them.
I cuss at mine. As you read, its never worked right,
won't stick to the side of the tank, and is residing
in a box in the garage. Too bad to, it was an
expensive little critter.

My reactor did not work out very well either. After
several years, I tired of cleaning it constantly. It
was very labor intensive. So I took a page from your
book and a couple of others and ran the CO2 output from
the bubble counter to the air intake port on my UGF power
head, stuck a deflector on the output of the power head
so the flow is directed downward into the tank and sat
back. The water flow breaks the bubbles into very tiny
ones (like the difuser should have) and the current is
strong enough that most of the bubbles don't reach the
surface. Nothing to clean, and it seems to be working
just fine.

I'm sorry you thought I was being critical or suggesting
that you stop using the difuser.

Frank

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jun-2006 07:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Frank and Matty

Frank, no need to be sorry. As you can see, I have enough laughing smileys after the sentence where I was ranting about your response. It was a joke on my end (I think Matty got it ). And I knew Matty was just pulling my strings

Sorry to hear that your diffuser did not work as expected and has been expensive on top of it. Just like me, you nevertheless found a way that makes you happy, and that is what it is all about

And triple-thanks for moving my 20G log to this forum, it brings the family of my tanks closer together.

Now, the only one left outside this realm is my 29G log, but I am sure we can manage to get this one into the Planted Forum as well.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jun-2006 13:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
(I think Matty got it )


Got it - I just wanted to congratulate you on your method of cleaning after giving a sarcastic remark.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jun-2006 16:58Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Little Caesar
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sweet. thanks. yeah, she is really nice.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jun-2006 21:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Glad I could help, Little Caesar

Tank wise, there is pretty much nothing to report, except maybe the fact that now, having stopped the Excel treatment for over 3 weeks, the BBA is certainly on its way back in, darn.

I know, I know, it has to do with my light, fishload, and whatnot, but I thought I just mention it.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2006 16:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,

Is the BBA limited to hardscape or is it growing on the plants as well?

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2006 23:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Tetratech,

The BBA is growing exclusively on the plants and mybe some parts of the wood. Mostly it occupies the egdes of my low growers, like some anubias, the java fern, and the isoetes.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 29-Jun-2006 15:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 40

The tank hasn't received much attention this week, partially because I was busy with work and partially because I am getting tired of the current setup. I am mostly spending my time with algae control and housing fast growers rather than having a scape that I could enjoy and shape.

Here is the tank after the last main trimming, 3 weeks ago:

Attached Image:

Tank 3 Weeks Ago



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 13:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I sure cannot complain about the speed with which my fast growers grow. But it seems like there is only one particular rythm to this tank - Fast growers up, trim, and so forth.

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Tank 1 Week Ago



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 13:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is the tank now as it was yesterday before the trim. The Star Grass is all the way up and this actually creates a problem. The lower parts are soooo shaded that they have no light what so ever and rott/melt away. I am sure that this cannot be good for the water quality and may directly relate to algae problems.

Attached Image:

Before Trimming this Weekend



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LITTLE_FISH
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Then I trimmed away. I made one change though compared to earlier trimmings, I reduced the size of the Star Grass group and gave some of it to the Hygro group. This way I hope to reduce the amount of foul leaves over the growth period until the Star Grass is all tall again.

I may even remove the Star Grass all together or use it differently somewhere else in the tank.

Attached Image:

Tank Now



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LITTLE_FISH
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On to some plant and fish detail shots.

Here is the Blyxa, or at least one of them. The plants haven't been floating up anymore, but they don't grow fast either. Instead, they are pretty much collecting quite a bit of gunk in them, which I can see when I hold the vacuum right over them. And, just like tetratech's they are all green now.

Attached Image:

Blyxa



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 13:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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All still looks really nice in there though Ingo, but I guess I know what you mean, with my mainly wisteria tank being all about fast growers, trimming, but no great variety.

But for all that, I'd still be very proud to have a tank that looked like yours. You still have variety & little splashes or red & other colours here & there. Very nice.

Cheers
TW
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Here is a close-up of my Isoetes Lacustris. What appears to be nice air bubbles (from the water change) being produced by the plant are actually bubbles that are attached to the BBA that is yet again covering it. This simple plant is the worst infested one in the whole tank.

Attached Image:

Isoetes and BBA



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 13:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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THANKS ROBYN

On to the fish, for Robyn, here is a close-up of the female (non-agressive) female. Half the time she is hiding somewhere in the thickets, but it is not because she is chased by the male. I simply think she likes it in there and that there are some nice snacks available.

Attached Image:

Female Apisto



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 13:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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He, on the other hand, is mostly at home in the front of the tank, patrolling the substrate to see if any new goodies are avaiable, stalking them, and then go in for the kill.

Both are totally non agressive fish, neither to each other nor to anybody else in the tank.

Attached Image:

Male Apisto



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 13:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a nice shot (I think) of the male Pearl catching some air. The bubbles that you see around him are from the CO2 diffusion system that I have in place, a diffuser who's output is sucked into a small powerhead and redirected and even further cut up by it.

Attached Image:

Male Pearl



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 13:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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The Rainbow group has found together for most of the time now, except for one of the 6 who prefers to be by himself for about half the day. I believe to identify him as a former leader who has lost his position to the leader of the last group that was added. He will get over it.

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Rainbows



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 13:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Welcome to the world of the High-Tech Tank

I think someone who is know as "The Grandmaster" "Uncle Ben" "Black and Tan Man" said it best --- IT'S A LIFESTYLE

Planted tanks take work and regular attention. You have a large tank fully planted from end to end, yes it will require time to keep it looking good and algae free. My tank is smaller and I've only added stems to the main area. Yes the wisteria is a stem, but it's the easiest plant to trim. I haven't uprooted them yet (although that might happen soon)



My Scapes
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Last but not least, the final shot for this week belongs to the Espei.

Some of you know why this fish gets the honor of the prime last spot in the picture series, and they sure deserve the special attention.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Espei



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 14:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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here is a close-up of the female (non-agressive) female
Ahh, now you're just rubbing it in

Cheers
TW
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IT'S A LIFESTYLE
I don't mind the lifestyle of messing with the tank on a weekly base (well known fact that I cannot stop to mess with tanks, ), but I would rather enjoy messing with it to make it prettier rather than controlling algae (I know the issues at hand, just making a statement, we don't have to go through them again).
now you're just rubbing it in
Me , noooooo

Ingo


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Wingsdlc
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Yes the wisteria is a stem, but it's the easiest plant to trim. I haven't uprooted them yet (although that might happen soon)
Good luck when you do that! They are a very well rooted plant when crawling. I think its a hygro thing. My giant is just as bad but it doesn't crawl.

LF,
Tank and fish shots are great as normal. I really like your Apistos but I might get my hands on something from africa that will blow your mind.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Wingsdlc
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Well I guess I will let the cat out of the bag.
http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/other/cyprichromis_paracyprichromis.html
5th picture down... I am throwing this plan out though. They will not like my low Ph. Sweet fish though...

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Wings,

Thanks for the compliments on the tank and such.

About the fish you may get:
Yes, it did blow my mind, but for a different reason. A Tanganyika fish in a planted tank? Wouldn't your parameters be way off from the requirements of that fish, like the high ph and O2 that it prefers? Have you looked at the food this fish needs? Overall, that sounds like trouble to me.

Ingo


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Wingsdlc
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I am throwing this plan out though. They will not like my low Ph. Sweet fish though...


One of my coworkers was trying to get me to buy them. So I looked into it and realized that it wouldn't be a good idea for a number of reasons:

1. Ph is way too low
2. Too big of water changes
3. High CO2 count and probably too low of a O2 count
4. High Nitrate levels

Too bad....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Weekly Tank Updates - Week 41

There is again not too much to report on this tank for this week, all is the same. The fast growers are growing, and so is the algae

I only perfromed a little pruning this weekend, mostly to remove heavily BBA infested leaves, but not too many. All fish seem to be doing fine, at least almost all of the purchased ones are accounted for.

Deep in my head I am already planning a re-design of this tank, although I know that you folks would probably not support that idea (we know what messes my over-hauls created).

Just a few shot for the week, here is the tank last weekend (for comparison reasons):

Attached Image:

Last Week



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LITTLE_FISH
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And here it is last night. As you can see, the Hygro is growing quite a bit again, and so is the overhanging Ludwigia. The Star Grass is coming back too, I trimmed two stems of that were too tall in comparison to the rest of the group. When I "style" the 40G I will remove the Narrow Leaf Java Fern from this tank as it will serve as a main group in the other tank:

Attached Image:

This Weekend



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The whole right half of the tank doesn't look anything

It is a grouping of plants that are desired in the tank but with which I currently don't know what to do. This image is a sample of what I mean, all kinds of plants in random spots, no system, no visual appeal, they are just there. It has to change!

Attached Image:

Boring



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I will post a series of Oto shots in the 40G log, but I was able to capture one the Otos in this tank as well. Rarely do I see them all, the last time was probably a few weeks back. I was lucky enough to count 5 of the 6 today.

When Otos eat of the glass it always seems as if they are singing a song (from an opera) to the bystanders.

Attached Image:

Oto



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LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a 3 shot journey into the Ludwigia shadowed gardens on the left side of the tank. This area is a favorite hang-out for all fish of the tank, just look at the last full shot and you will see about 90% of all fish in that area.

Attached Image:

Left Side I



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LITTLE_FISH
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This stage of the Ludwigia growth is the nicest, but soon it will become too long and start to shade the Star Grass to its right. I love it when the roots hand down over the Anubias field and the fish take shelter in between.

Also, note at least 3 Anubia flowers

Attached Image:

Left Side II



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LITTLE_FISH
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Last picture for now, an even closer look into the "cave". Center stage takes the female Apisto, also visible in the last two shots (and so was the male).

All the pearling is post water change related, and occurs mostly on the hair algae

Thanks for checking in,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Left Side III



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TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
As always, love looking at your pics.

Cheers
TW
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Wingsdlc
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LF,
You really have a Jungle again. Just take it easy when you start to redo things.

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LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks for the input

Wings - it is not really a jungle yet, compared to the jungle it once was when I still had Rock Valley. The plants on the right half are actually far enough apart from each other so that light can reach all the way down to the substrate.
Just take it easy when you start to redo things
- Well, I will see what I can do, but I cannot promise anything. In any way, nothing will happen really soon.

Thanks to the two of you again,

Ingo


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tetratech
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LF,
Give yourself a break.

I mean your doing a great job scaping the other tanks, why not use this as a grow out tank and you could put all your new plants in it.

Eventually something will come to you and you'll probably scape this the way you want it. Maybe you have "Scaper's Block" It's going around I hear.

My Scapes
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LITTLE_FISH
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Give yourself a break.
Hey, remember - IT'S A LIFESTYLE



Yeah, I will use this tank as a growout tank, that's why I purchased this 125G . Plus, using this tank as a temp storage for plants seems like a bad idea, as I would easily spread hair algae all over my tanks.

See tetratech, I don't think I have a "Scaper's Block" right now, probably the opposite is true. Having created 2 rather nice looking tanks in the last 2 weeks (20 and 29), I feel inspired. Unfortunaltely, I have messed this one up so badly than all but an over-haul would be unsuccessful. But as I said, I am not in a rush, I just try to come to terms with myself if an over-haul is a desired goal.

Thanks tetratech for the well-meaning suggestions, keep them coming ,

Ingo


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tetratech
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Geez just a suggestion .
I don't mean a forever growout tank, just for a while.
Sometimes taking a break from something you see "The forest from the trees" again.

Yes your "little" tanks look quite nice. Maybe we should call you Little_Scaper

My Scapes
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I hear you on the "forest for the trees thing. I believe I have noticed that I got too carried away with details and in that process didn't see that the tank as a whole made less and less sense (style wise, not in general).

Right now, I guess the tank is a growout tank, as this is all what the plants in there do, grow - and then come out - because of algae cover

BTW, does anyone know what the stars in my status mean?
**** Ultimate Fish Guru * - I for sure am clueless as to where they came from.

Ingo


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NowherMan6
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Personally, LF, I think this is the nicest your tank has looked. It's no longer stem plant central, there's some long-term viability there. Such a long tank is difficult to scape, and invariably you wind up with a few different tanks within it, it's hard to be cohesive. I've even seen it in some of Amano's work. I like it as it is, lush, colorful and clear. very well done, and great pics as always

Maybe we should call you Little_Scaper


I like it!


Back in the saddle!
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LITTLE_FISH
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Oh NowherMan6,

That are very kind words you write there, I appreciate it .

Actually though, the tank is still Stem-Plant-Central, with I would assume about 80% covered with Wisteria, Star Grass, Hyrgo, Ludwigia, and Pearl Grass - all stems.

Little_Scaper - hm, not too bad, although I am LITTLE_FISH for my preference of small fish. So how would that translate into Little_Scaper? Small Plants? Or only a little part of the tank is actually scaped

Ingo


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mattyboombatty
 
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I think they feel bad for you not having any quiz stars, so they give you some for having a billion posts.

I kinda like the haphazard scaping over on the right side. It's kind of more natural in some regards.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Jul-2006 00:49Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
You really have a Jungle again.
Noooo, I always think it looks nice. If I were a little fish, I'd like to live in such a tank. I think there is a place in this world for highly scaped tanks & as well as other tanks, that have been scaped such as this one, but trick us into thinking it is just a natural bunch of plants. You have several tanks, so you can create several looks - this is just be a different look.

A very nice look, I think.

I don't know why you're unhappy with it (except if algae is a problem, but you can't see that in the pics).

Cheers
TW
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LITTLE_FISH
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I think they feel bad for you not having any quiz stars


What do you mean? I am sure you didn't even notice that you have yellow CO2 tubing, as you are obviously blind

Go count them

haphazard scaping over on the right side ... but trick us into thinking it is just a natural bunch of plants
That all would be good, if it had been created at least somewhat intentional. I stated from the beginning that this tank should not be a highlight in scape but also fish intensive, but I didn't mean no style either . But thanks for letting me know that the scape is not all that bad .

Ingo


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mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
What do you mean? I am sure you didn't even notice that you have yellow CO2 tubing, as you are obviously blind


Oh man....that WAS bad. My observational skills are obviously lacking. I seriously looked over there when you commented on your title, and didn't see the stars.... . I even remember when you got all 10 stars. Hey, at least I got the number of posts right...

Sorry 'bout that LF....I think your stars were in stealth mode at the time

EDIT: multiple typos...



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You must have had your mind focussed on the new tank setup, I understand that completely.

No problem Matty, we are all friends here
But don't do it again or I will send some of my BBA your way .

Have fun,

Ingo


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mattyboombatty
 
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Please no...not the dread BBA



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I really like the occasional sprig of red teleranthera amidst the grassy crypts (if that's what they are). I think the tank looks lovely.

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...
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FRANK
 
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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
As far as the stars are concerned, they are out of
"balance."
Someone (not I) typed ***Ultimate Fish Guru***
and there are not enough spaces in that field so it is
lopsided. Drop a note to Adam or Lindy or Babel and see
if one of them can stop your listing to one side.

Frank

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Thanks illustrae for the input, I appreciate it. I like the color of the Alternanthera as well, but its placement is wherever I had space left in the tank. I guess sometimes "Chance" is a better designer than I am

Thanks Frank for trying to explain the **** Ultimate Fish Guru *, but I am seeing the same in the page's source, and in my Profile when viewed directly as I see it and as anybody else can see it. I think this must have some secret meaning that I cannot identify.

Thanks to both,

Ingo




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EditedEdited by bensaf
The current scape is very flat and has little to no depth. The ingredients are all there but you mis read the recipe somewhere along the line.

Some general pointers.

Don’t be afraid of empty space or gaps. The voids have their own dynamism. An example of this would be the H.Augustifolia and the Stargrass. Both nice plants but they are almost identical color and at present are just blending into one another, effectively canceling each other out in term of visual impact. Just have a big enough empty space between the two would go a long away to solve this. Or by using a plant of a different color in between will achieve the same effect. The ludwigia for example would be ok between these 2.

Build a skeleton that you can then flesh out. But the bones and structure should still be visible. The wood and rocks are hidden at the moment so the structure is gone. Bring the rocks forward and use them as a pedestal that the wood can sit on. Be careful what is planted in front and around this structure so as it doesn’t become overgrown and obscured again. Anubias in the gaps between rocks and wood. Ferns to decorate the wood. Only use plants that will stay at a size that will remain manageable in front of the structure. Blyxa is ideal. It’s just used in dabs to highlight the rocks and the plant looks better with the dark backdrop of wood or rock.

Some plants are only effective when solitary. Grassy plants like the Sag, Cyperus, Isoetes are nice but if they are used against a background of green stems they simply disappear. Use them in areas where there is nothing else green around. Use as highlight to rock or wood, or simply have them against a black background. Use as fillers at the side or popping out behind dark crypts or peeping from behind rocks etc. The important thing is that they are visible for what they are – at the moment they are invisible.

Some plants look better when they are half hidden. A lot of plants look there best when they are poking out from behind something. Not all are stars. They don’t have to be out there on show. Their main function should simply be to show off other plants or create a backdrop for hardscape. Wisteria is a good example it can be mould around the lines of other plants or hardscape to show them off more effectively. A lot of Crypts especially bigger Wentdiis look good just poking out of somewhere.

A big showpiece plant works well in a tank your size and work around that like you would hardscape.

Grouping of stem plants is important. Different shapes, textures and colors, don’t place them randomly, think what would look good next to what so as they can highlight one another and thereby increase the individual appeal. Don’t be afraid to put one species of stem plant right in front of another, as long as they differ in color or texture and you keep the height of the front one low enough, they complement one another rather then obscure, of such things depth are made.

You’ve got all the necessary bits and pieces in places, they just need to be used to maximum effect.



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Bensaf,

Thanks for the detailed list of suggestions. I am aware of almost all the things you said, but I am worried about a re-do at this point (more algae? ).

There is no way to make this tank look nice (not just nicer, but nice) without ripping it apart first. You cannot simply take parts of it and plant them more structured, there is a natural chain reaction that has to be considered (what you remove from one spot and plant in another will conclude in other plants having to be moved as well, not to mention the hardscape).

I am really not too frustrated with the tank, but given that all other tanks currently are looking better and better, this one is the black sheep in the tank family

Thanks again, I will keep your suggestions in mind during the next redo. I also will have to fit a mother Barteri somewhere in there, as I ordered the plants for the 40G (see log entry) and couldn't resist on this one

Ingo


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Ok,

Finally I made it home, and when checking on my tanks I saw that this one has a new flower (actuall 2). The Star Grass is doing me the honor this time. As it is not natural for this plant to have submersed flowers (at least from what I know), I have to assume that the buds started to form when the top was all the way up at the surface before the last trimming, a week and a half ago. I assume it kept on growing after the trim.

Sorry about the bad quality, but here it is:

Attached Image:

Star Grass Flowers



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Well, and while I was having the camera out allready anyway, I decided to take a few more shots.

And here is yet another new Anubias flower, tell me if you have seen enough of them by now and I will stop posting them (or not ).

Attached Image:

Anubias Flower



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And I thought that while I am bothering you with the 397th image of an Anubias Flower, why not add the 467th image of an Oto, just to complete the list

Here he is, munching away on some algae covered piece of wood. No food shortage there:

Attached Image:

Oto Eating



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And to round it out, another 3 shots of the Apistos, this time both in all shots.

Tonight they had a few close encounters, here is the first one of many:

Attached Image:

Apisto Pair I



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Here is a near head-on collision between the two. I know that it is not meant as a thread by either or as the male has the black eye bar "hidden", unlike when he shows off towards other fish or me:

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Apisto Pair II



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Last but not least, another close encounter. I think that they truely begin to like each other, otherwise this would be too close for comfort.

I wonder what the male is saying to the female in this picture

Attached Image:

Apisto Pair III



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LF,
Very nice pictures as always. I really like the one of the Oto. It shows both your great photo skills and your super skills at growing algae. (please no threats of sending some my way as I have green spot that is driving me nuts!)

Sorry about opening up a large can of worms with the comment about your jungle. You seem to have a lot on your plate with work and 4 planted tanks. They are not like the "normal" tanks people have in terms of matinance. Thou with opening up that can I got some good ideas for my tank from Ben. I guess it was not all for the worse.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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tetratech
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Wow, LF congrats on the Stargrass flower. Will the flower open submersed. I believe they are a light shade of blue.


My Scapes
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Don't what you are putting in your water to get so many plants to flower.

3 years, a ton of Anubias and not one flower


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Wingsdlc
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Ben you have never had an Anubias flower? I have only had one but I am sure it will again sometime. Unless I happened to cut that chunk off the other day.



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LF, I'll trade you some pearls for some flowers. We are such men.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2006 14:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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That's a really nice set of pics. Especially those apistos, they are a great looking pair - they really look settled in and happy now. The flowers on the stargrass is really interesting, I've never had a stem plant flower. A couple of anubias, but never stems.



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Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2006 16:09Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I've had many anubias as well, not one flower. As a matter of fact, sometimes I'd get them with flowers and as soon as I'd put them in the tank, the flower looked at me, looked around the tank, then promptly died. Stupid stuck up flowers, think they're so great...

That female pisto is just gorgeous. At least you know your WQ is top notch, I've never seen a female apisto color up so much. Are you sure you're not using Photoshop? or maybe it's just those punchy Canon colors


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So while we are talking about flowers. Being men and call....

I have an Aponogeton crispus flower in my tank right now (yes I know they are not hard to flower). I really like their flowers. I think the wife will too! Might have to add a few more of these guys in the tank...

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Wings,

I could dig out my old photos of the Apon flowers

Thanks all for the, at least indirect, compliments on my flowers, at least one thing I superseed Bensaf .

Tetratech - me and modifying pictures in Photoshop?



I prefer to show the real thing, for better or worse (just look at my lovely algae shots over the last 43 weeks).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2006 23:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 42

Not much at all has happened during this week to the tank, besides feeding and fertilizing. I was a little pre-occupied with the 40G, putting all these plants in that tank and what not.

Plant and algae growth in this tank seem normal, fish seem to be swimming around normal as well, so all is status quo. I will soon have to unload some Espei, either by selling them or by putting about 20 in the 40G.

Here are a few (only 4 this weekend) shots of the tank over the last 2 weeks.

This one shows the tank 2 weeks ago after the last major trimming:

Attached Image:

2 Weeks ago



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Post InfoPosted 16-Jul-2006 13:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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A week later, so last weekend, the Ludwigia on the left had reached its prime, spanning a bridge over the Anubias group all the way to the Star Grass. That, in turn, had grown a little, as well as the Hygro on the right.

Attached Image:

Last Week



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Here is a shot from this weekend before some trimming took place. The Ludwigia became too big and started to shade the Star Grass and other plants.

Ignore the huge amount of floating Hygro on the right. These were the stems that I removed from the 40G during the mid-week replant. I was somehow envisioning that I can add them into this tank, but without a major change this could not be accomplished. In the end, I disposed of them.

Attached Image:

Before Trim, This Weekend



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And lastly, here is the tank after the trim, the way it looks now.

Mostly, you will notice that the Ludwigia bush is gone, albeit small stems are replanted in that area and will eventually come back into view.

The Hygro has reached a height that means for me that it will require trimming soon, most likely next weekend.

I also trimmed the Pearl Grass group on the right, as well as the few stems of Alternanthera in it, and I replanted one of the Green Wendtiis that was getting almost no light anymore and died down to 2 leaves from a group that once was maybe around 20 leaves.

That is it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank Now



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Post InfoPosted 16-Jul-2006 13:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,
You have a very large long tank, certainly not the easiest to bring together. Although you added the wood I think you need more hardscape to show depth and defintion. Why not add some pretty big size rocks jutting out in the left-mid and right mid areas. This will give the plants more definition and separation from each other and at the same time you could probably remove some of the plants to reduce maintenance somewhat.

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Post InfoPosted 16-Jul-2006 14:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I hear you tetratech,

My vision (albeit we know how well that one translates into a real tank ) for this tank is by now so far off from the actual layout that it would be an almost complete overhaul.

To give you an idea:

I see the right back side planted tall, maybe with a larger dense group of Hygro Angustifolia. Around it is an assembly of Anubias, slowly declining in height. The driftwood branches are sticking out of this combination. This section, with maybe one more plant as an accent, is about a third of the tank. The rest of the tank would be planted much lower, with maybe rocks as mountains, but not too high.

Somewhere along that line is how I would like the tank to be.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-Jul-2006 14:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ok,

The first step towards a more plant friendly environment has been taken as I was at the LFS and arranged the selling of about 35 Espei for this coming week. That should make the water column a little leaner, when it comes to waste.

Now all I have to do is find a day when I will find the time and patience to catch these speedsters, last time it took me about 1.5 hours to catch 28 of them.

I may use the small store credit to purchase a pair of Triple-Red Apisto cacatuoides for the 40G. Any thoughts on that?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 17-Jul-2006 00:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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LF,

Re: the Espei, why not buy one of those big wide nets used for catching larger fish? Just hold it in one spot and corral the little guys into it.

As for the apistos, very nice idea. For my next big tank I'm going to set up an apisto haven of sorts, so I've been doing a ton of research on them. Cacs are harem breeders, not naturally pair breeders like rams and certain other apistos like borelli. I'm sure they work just fine as pairs because that's how they're sold sometimes, but it may be neat to purchase say, 3-4 females and one male. You'll get to see more natural apisto behavior out of them, with the females defending their territory and their fry, and the male bouncing around and strutting his stuff. Anyway, that's what I'm going to do. See that? I'm spilling the beans on my big tank designs, giving away my ideas, all to help a friend out!

p.s. Finally saw your article, great job!


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Post InfoPosted 17-Jul-2006 20:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks NowherMan6,

For the info on the Apistos and the comment on the Article.

Yeah, these particular ones are sold as a pair, finding additional females would be harder.

Having a big net was a consideration, but I got a little worried that I may rip out half my plants in the process. I may refer to it anyway, in particular if it takes me .5 hours to catch even one of these little buggers.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 17-Jul-2006 21:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
I may use the small store credit to purchase a pair of Triple-Red Apisto cacatuoides for the 40G. Any thoughts on that?
Well, you know I have a pair & they are my "married couple". They show no aggression to anyone else or each other, although when they had eggs, they worked as a team guarding them. I think they are pretty too, even my girl is pretty. I recommend them as nice, easy apistos - particularly when you compare them to my other apistos, who continue to give me low level worry.

I say a pair should work well.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2006 00:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks Robyn,

That is what my research into these specific Apistos showed as well, they are the perfect entry Apisto, easy to breed, easy tank mates, but maybe a little on the shy side (that will have to be seen).

I don't even know if they are available right now, but I am not in a rush anyway. I still have to find the time to get the Espei out first, between work, a dinner date with my daughter, another one with my wife, and all the other things in life, this will be a challenge for this week.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2006 10:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
maybe a little on the shy side
Don't know if mine are typical or not, but they're not shy. They come to the front of the tank whenever I approach, as they know I mean food. As I like looking at them A LOT, they are sometimes disappointed, as it's not always dinner time when I'm there peeking in - but, they always come

Cheers
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Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2006 12:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well,

I am having a problem

Last night we had a major storm coming through and the power went out. This morning, when the sun came out, I could see the extent of the damage. The whole part of the town I live in has loads of trees fallen over or broken off, 50% of the roads are blocked, in short - it looks like a war zone.

I am not expecting the power to come back on soon, our own power line has at least 5 trees on it, and that is only for the area of maybe 15 houses, I couldn't further investigate as I had to go to work (that's where I am right now).

So, to sum it up, I got no filtration on my tanks, no pumps, no nothing. I guess the tank get a black-out of a not-so-gentle kind

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 13:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Sorry to hear the LF? I really hope your power comes on soon, but if it doesn't what is your plan?

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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 13:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks tetratech,

I have no plan. I have a single battery powered air pump at home that I could fire up and rotate through the tanks. This cannot start until I come home from work, whenever that is.

In any case, very frustrating

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 13:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Ooh no, sorry Ingo. I know how worried you must be about that. I remember earlier this year, we had a blackout, which luckily only lasted a couple of hours. It was caused by a simple fault that the electricity people could attend to quickly, but that does not sound at all like your situation. Even though it was not for long, I was very worried at the time. I hope your power is not too delayed. I'm glad too, that it seems no tree actually fell on your house, car or family, so that would have been even worse. I guess it's quite likely that if many trees are down, that may have happened to some families.

Good luck with it all. Fingers & toes are all crossed that your electricity people get it fixed quickly for you.

Cheers
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Thanks Robyn,

The wife just called and the latest prediction is that, if we would be really lucky, we would have power again late tonight, so pretty much 24 hour after it went out. More likely though is that it may come back on sometime tomorrow, going then towards 48 hours. Darn

Yes, luckily nobody on our street seems to have gotten hurt directly, almost like a miracle most trees fell between houses and onto streets and yards. I am sure that some houses have been damaged to some degree, but none has been demolished.

I will try to get home early to hook up the air pump, but as you may know I am really busy at work as well.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 15:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yes, luckily nobody on our street seems to have gotten hurt directly, almost like a miracle most trees fell between houses and onto streets and yards. I am sure that some houses have been damaged to some degree, but none has been demolished.

Glad to hear it. We caught some of the storm, but nothing major. Had some of my deck furniture tossed around and lot's of leaves in the pool. Is it me or does there some to be much more devasting storms lately. There's was just a tsunami in Jakata (Bensaf's Home) and over 500 people died.




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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 15:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think the weather is crazy lately, what with your storms, the tsunami(s), our news telling us today that at least some parts of US are going through a major heat wave, Sydney went through a major heat wave earlier this year & about 84% of the state I live in (NSW) is in a drought situation. Our dam capacity is well down & we have had water restrictions for a couple of years (I feel guitly about my 50% water change, when I think about our farmers).

I hope you are really lucky & get power tonight, otherwise, is it cold showers at the LF residence tonight - or do you have gas hot water & cooking?

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 15:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,
What ever happened with your Stargrass flowers?

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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 17:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LOL,

Well - this question for sure caught me by surprise

I am wondering if my fish are dying right now and you ask about the flower.

Anyway - It withered away one day later, the flower stem hanging off the side. I assume I only had a flower stem in the first place because the whole plant top was on the surface and that was when it formed. After I trimmed and replanted, the whole thing was submersed and the flower for sure did not like that.

Ingo

STILL NO POWER


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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 20:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I am wondering if my fish are dying right now and you ask about the flower.
Sorry for what appears as my insensitivy, but when you said you might have power tonite, it turned from major to minor problem (in my mind anyway). I know how frustating it is, cause I've lost power for only a few hours and was really annoyed. If it goes any longer I would do at least a 20% WC on all your tanks.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 20:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Eek! I hope everybody makes it Ingo. I'm sure the tanks will bounce back quick after the power comes back on. At least you don't have a reef tank. If power went out at my place I'd be blowing bubbles with a straw in my reef tank if I had to.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 20:46Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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There's was just a tsunami in Jakata (Bensaf's Home) and over 500 people died.


Funny you should mention that, I was just about to make a post about it.

It's been a bit weird, two quakes in the space of a week. I'd pretty much gotten used to them. Strange but you can sense them just before they hit, sudden nausea in the pit of the stomach and dizziness then you realize the room is shaking

But last nights was the biggest I felt yet, also the closest to hit, lots of screaming in the apartment building, including my wife - she near bowled me over in her rush to wrap herself around my neck !

Funnily the first sign that the quake is going on is the tank water sloshing and spilling over the edge (creepily the fish all stop swimming ). Lost one neon in the desk tank, thought being in a small glass box under a big lump of driftwood was not the safest place to be, and like my wife decided to run for it, he jumped and ended up on the carpet. It was a choice of calming the wife or saving the fish The wife won......just

A least I know the hardscape is solid, not a single branch shifted place ! All's well that end's well

Anyway LF, I think things will be fine. This is where having a planted tank comes into it's own. You have a natural filter in place and an oxidisor. Shouldn't be a major problem.


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Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 04:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF, what's the lighting situation. Hopefully your back in business by now.

Anyway LF, I think things will be fine. This is where having a planted tank comes into it's own. You have a natural filter in place and an oxidisor. Shouldn't be a major problem.

That is true. I accidently turned my filter off on two seperate occasions and all was fine the next day. Even if you go a few days I think you'll be fine LF. Especially in a large heavily planted tank what is the canister really doing besides flow. It's picking up some solid waste, etc, but if you don't have any huge fish you probably wouldn't even notice the difference if the cansister was replaced with a powerhead.

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Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 04:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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but if you don't have any huge fish you probably wouldn't even notice the difference if the cansister was replaced with a powerhead.


This comes from the guy who says that LF might not have enough biofiltration to handle the amount of waste from the espei, making his algae problems. Besides, I'm not too sure what the plants are going to be doing while the lights are out(no photosynthesis = no oxygen). At least they are probably covered in beneficial bacteria. That will help. I still think everything will be fine, but not because of the plants in particular.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 06:58Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well,

Thursday morning, and no power in sight

Our whole side of the street looks just like it did 2 days ago, with all trees and branches all over the power lines etc.

In my backyard, behind the garage, a tree from the neighbors behind us, I would guess with a diameter of about 2 to 3 feet, is lying across the main power line, and so are many others all over the place in my town.

The current prediction is that, if we get lucky, the power will be on by 4PM today, but given that nothing has changed in 2 days I doubt that.

Anyway - I went home early yesterday and we rushed to Home Depot (a hardware chain) and I bought a generator. It took me over an hour to set up that sucker, but eventually I had it running (on gasoline) and managed to hook up all filters in my 4 tanks. I let it run for 4 hours before I had to turn it off, the wife started to complain about the funes (hey - what are some funes compared to my fishes lifes ). She prominsed me that she will turn it back on today at 9AM, but I have my doubts that she actually will do that (let's just say that the argument about funes or fish lifes didn't end on a nice note, but I gave in anyways).

That's where we are now,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 13:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So have you already gone 48hrs with no power - that's too bad. I'm sure your wife will turn generator on, if she promised too. Maybe she just wants the kids out of the house & at school, before the fumes start up - or do you still have little ones at home?

How do your fish seem. Are they still acting normal. Is it warm enough there at the moment that your heaters aren't really needed? I know in my summer, I didn't really need heaters at all. They never turned on, as the room was always warm enough.

Anyway, continuing to cross all fingers & toes.


Cheers
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Were you running the generators indoors? I would be afraid that Carbon Monoxide would build up in the basement. Set it up out side or in a vented area and run an extension cord.

No sense killing your self to save the fish.

My family has a generator for hurricanes they run it on the back porch with extension cords coming in the back door.

Good luck with the power situation. We're crossing our fingers for you!

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Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 13:51Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I am with rick on the generator thing. They are ment for outdoors.

A while back when I was in my first year of high school we lost power for at least a week. Living in the sticks this ment that we did not have any water either because we had a well. If it wouldn't have been for the gas grill we would have starved. I swear my mom can make anything on that thing! As for the fish I was keeping at the time. I think they were fine. I kept them in the basement so they stayed dark thus keeping them dorment.

Best wishes LF. I know that its not fun to have no power.

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Sounds like if you can run it from outside, you, the fish & your wife will be happy - the fumes will be outside, bothering no-one. But, I can't help thinking that if you could have done that, you already would have, and that maybe, for some reason in your situation, it's not possible?

Cheers
TW
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Hi,
If you haven't already, get a 100 ft extension cord, and
one power strip (like for computers, etc.) place the
generator outside and run the cord through a window.
Use old towels in a layer across the sill and close the
window down onto the cord. The towels will mold around the
cord and "seal" the window keeping out the bugs etc.
Hook up the filters and lights to the strip(s) and crank
the generator up. You just have to keep an eye on the
fuel once in a while.

Frank


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LF,
Glad you got your hands on a generator. I would keep doing daily water refreshing anyway to keep things fresh and oxygenated.

This comes from the guy who says that LF might not have enough biofiltration to handle the amount of waste from the espei, making his algae problems

O.K. how do I talk my way out of this one

What I meant was in a big tank isn't the primary "biological" and yes overall filteration the plants and substrate not the canister. Isn't that the case in salt too "live rock and live sand", but if there are big fish present you need mechanical to get that out of the water as well as the big food you feed those fish that goes uneaten. I do think if LF had a bigger filter, when I say bigger I mean bigger in terms of more water volume it would help, but the one canister I don't think is doing all that much in terms of biological when compared to what's inside the tank.

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LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH


Of course it runs outdoors, you sillies

It just happen that you have to keep the door a notch open so the power cord can run into the house. Also, I have to have the generator in a position that is not favorable with regards to the winds, and although I point the exhaust outlet away from the house the wind occasionally blows it back towards it.

Kids are in day camp, so they will be far away from the fumes during the day. The temperature here was about 98F before the storm hit 2 days ago, the next day it was in the upper 80s. Last night, around 8PM, the temp inside the house was 84F (that is exactly 30C). The basement is a little cooler, but overall I for sure do not need the heaters in the tank. I unplugged all electrical equipment to the tanks, partially because I needed the extension cords to hook up to the main power cord from the generator, and partially to avoid anything starting up uncontrolled if the power should come back on while I am not at home.

Ingo

EDIT: Frank and tetratech - didn't see your entries until now. Yeah - I will have to work on moving the generator further away from the house, but there are 2 problems:
a) While the wife doesn't like the fumes, she also wouldn't like the idea of blowing them into the neighbor's window
b) a long extension cord uses up quite a bit of amps itself, energy that gets lost for the filters.


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Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 14:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Of course it runs outdoors, you sillies
Well, in my defence, I did say that I couldn't help thinking that if you could have done that, you would have already.

Anyway, sounds like you're doing all you can do. I didn't think you'd need to worry about heaters. Our news yesterday talked about parts of the US being in a heat wave - although I don't know if that is the part where you are. But I do remember you commenting on matty (I think it was him) wearing thick tennis socks when it was so hot.

Cheers
TW
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OK,

So, first of all, I am sorry that I did not participate in my fellow hobbyists threads too much during the last few days, with the power outage and a tremendous work schedule I just did not find the time to do anything besides letting you know about my own events in this thread.

Power News: WE ARE BACK IN BUSINESS

My wife managed to get the generator started sometime during the day yesterday, this gave my fish another 3 to 4 hours of filter activity. Once she turned it off, it took another 4 hours and then the real power came back on.

By the time I got home (after another 12 hour work session from hell) I just had enough time to plug everything back in and to adjust all the timers. I managed to feed all fish, for the 3 smaller tanks while their lights were out already (past bedtime for these tanks) and for this one with about half an hour of lights on. I could account for most of the fishies, as much as this is possible given that I don't even know how many Espei should be there. I did not see one of the Rainbows and the female Apisto, I will check more intense tonight when I get home. The other tanks were harder to check for fish (lights out), but it seems all are there.

In this tank, the Star Grass seems to have suffered the most, while certain plants seem to have thrived. It appears to me as if a few of my crypts (not the Wendtiis) have grown quite a bit, and the Alternanthera as well.

Maybe tonight I find more time to check on the damage that may have been done to flora and fauna, I theoretically also should drop off 35 Espei at the LFS, but I don't know if I will find the time.

That is it for now, off to another crazy day at work,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 14:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,
Glad you are back with power. Must be a nice feeling! As for your fish I hope they are all ok and that you don't have a plant mess to clean up. In general I think fish and plants are tougher than we think they are. Best wishes!

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Oh, that's good you have power. Don't worry too much about the apistos & rainbows yet. With all your plants to hide in & if lights were only on for 1/2 hour, then that wasn't much time to spot them all. My apistos (the ones that worry me - you know the ones I mean) I sometimes don't see the female for a couple of days at a time, but so far, she always turns up.

Good luck with everything.



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TW
Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 14:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,
Hope all is well with the tanks.

In this tank, the Star Grass seems to have suffered the most, while certain plants seem to have thrived

I really have a love hate relationship with Star Grass. When it's good it's really good and tough to beat for constrast and it's probably one of the best plants if your want that cascading effect from back to mid, but it turns very quickly to a unattractive mess when conditions aren't to it's liking.

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Thank you all,

I am still trying to catch up with all the threads that I have not replied to, because of the power outage and the work load in the office. I hope the coming week will give me some time to do so, but for now I will just update my 4 logs and then I will be off again.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 43

This sure was an eventful week, having had the power outage and what not. I am too busy to write a lot, but here is one reason why the tanks did survive the 48 hours without a problem. The Generator was hummming for about 4 hours each day, enough to provide some agitation and oxygen enrichment in all 4 tanks:

Attached Image:

Generator



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Post InfoPosted 23-Jul-2006 12:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is how the tank looked like on Saturday morning.

All seems to be fine, but a closer look at the tank reveals that the Star Grass has suffered. To my surprise, the Hygro angustifolia has suffered as well, and quite a few leaves fell off. The alternanthera and a few smaller crypts on the other hand seemed to have grown better than usual. All fish have been accounted for:

Attached Image:

Before Water Change



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Here is a closer look at the Star Grass. I don't know how visible it is, but all lower parts of the plants have withered away or at least suffered enough to better remove them. I think I got lucky when I reduced the size of this group, otherwise I would have a much bigger mess right now.

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Star Grass



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LITTLE_FISH
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Here is the tank now after the water change, which included a cleaning of the filter. BTW, I did nothing to the filters during the blackout, if there were any "bad" bacteria in them then they do not seem to cause any problems in the tank now.

Attached Image:

Tank Now



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As you can see in the full shot, the Star Grass is not even visible anymore, that is how short the trimmings had to be made in order to only keep healthy stems. Here is a closer look at the middle of the tank, slightly angled. You can see the tips of the Star Grass and some Alternanthera that I trimmed from other parts of the tank and planted between the Anubias on the left and the Star Grass.

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Peek-A-Boo



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Here is another close-up, just for the fun of it. I like the color contrast that the Alternanthera creates in a green tank, albeit its particular positioning in this spot may not be the best.

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Just Some Color



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Last but not least, here is a shot of the top of the 40G. That tank created quite a Duck Weed carpet and I removed some of it and added it to this tank.

Some of you may remember that I once had Duck Weed and that it dissapeared on me. Well, my theory that the fish ate it seems to hold merit, they liked the new Duck Weed as well. I wonder when they will have it all munched up

Attached Image:

Duck Weed



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Post InfoPosted 23-Jul-2006 12:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Glad all the fishies made it LF. That's good news. Your whole tank seems to have pulled though pretty well & still looks all very lush & what not.

48hrs without light & you can still taunt me with a very healthy looking splash of red.

Anyway, seems that generator was worth the purchase.

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks Robyn,

Yup - all fish that I can count have been accounted for. This excludes the Otos (too good of a hider, haven't seen all 6 in a few weeks now) and the Espei, as I don't know how many I have. Oh, I don't remember if I mentioned it already, but I have not had a chance to give some to the LFS yet, with the power outage and the work load. I will try to work it out this week.

Ingo

100 Pages, I hope Adam is still ok with me as a member


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Post InfoPosted 24-Jul-2006 00:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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LF,

Is 100 pages a record? I bet its got to be close. All I have to say is "You the Man!"

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Post InfoPosted 24-Jul-2006 01:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yep, I was just talking about Stargrass, very unforgiving plant. I like that Duckweed shot.

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Congrats on a 100 pages. Here's to a hundred more!

I just hope it doesn't break the board or anything

Rick
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Here's to a hundred more!


Holy cow, can you imagine?

I re-read Ingo's TFH article the other day and there was one part where they mentioned the beautiful planted tank where his espei bred, and I couldn't help but think to myself... "Hmm, yes beautiful... so beautiful, in fact, that he tore it all up and did it again... then tore that one up and did it again..." So indeed, here's to another 100 pages! /:'


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Is 100 pages a record?


I think we passed the record....say 40-50 pages back.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Jul-2006 04:05Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks guys for the compliments on the 100 thingy.

Workwise, I am being buried and barely had time to check into FP in the last days, if that continues then I can be glad if I add another 10 pages within the next year .

Anway, NowherMan6 is right, if there is one thing you guys can rely on then it is the fact that I like change, at least when it comes to my tanks

About the tank in itself right now: I still have all Espei as last weeks power outage cancelled the plan to fish some out and bring them to the LFS. I will try to do it this week then, maybe Thursday or Friday.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Ok,

Things have changed, some of the Espei have been traded in at the LFS. As usual, it is quite a challenge to catch them in the planted tank, but with one larger net being held in one position and the other smaller one used to herd them in it took me only about 30 min to get around 30 of them (I think it was 29).

Here is a last shot of the larger school before I got started.

Attached Image:

Large School



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And here are the fish, ready to be brought to the LFS. If you want to, go ahead and count them as I come up with 30 or even 31 in the bucket.

That means, overall I already traded in about 60 Espei, all from the original 12 that I bought.

And - If you would like to know what I did with the store credit that I got, you will have to check in a few minutes into my 40G log

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Fish-Bucket



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So being you have taken 60 out of the tank. How many would you guess you have now? Do you still think they are breeding?

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Wings,

I would guess that I have between 30 and 40 left, maybe more. I will try to get a rough count during the next water change. I picked fish for the LFS that are not too small or too old (fully grown adults, most likely still my original 12), this way I should be able to have more of them in the future.

I still see one or the other rather young fish (maybe 1 to 2 months old), although I haven't seen any tiny fry in quite a while as they must be better at hiding these days - given that there are/were about 100 fish in the tank that all would not hesitate to eat fry.

Assuming that the cut in numbers is significant enough, and that the Espei are in fact still breeding, I should see a few babies in not too far of a future.

Ingo


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 44

Similar to the 40G, this tank has seen a few changes within the last week, but nothing major. And similar to the 40G's weekly update for this week, I will first go and show a full tank shot before mentioning the details (and a few questions) in the detail shots.

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend



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And here is the tank now this weekend, after trimming and water changes.

As you may notice, the Star Grass still has not reached a visible height behing the main wood group, I really had to trim it way back after the power outage.

More obvious is the change to the right side of the tank, in particular the Hygro group. Here is the full tank shot:

Attached Image:

Last Night



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This change was required as the Hygro group occupied way to much space in the tank and also reached a height that shaded everything else on that side of the tank. Remember that I planted them in such a large area to be able to reduce the size of the Star Grass group while still maintaining a large number of fast growers. Here is a shot of that hygro group before trimming:

Attached Image:

Hygro Jungle



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And here is a close-up of the same area after trimming. I have to confess that I did not take this shot to show the hygro, but rather the rainbows and a few of the Espei. It ever so happend that the hygro formed the backgroud for this come-together.

Attached Image:

Lower Hygro and Fish



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Overall, I did not only remove and trim every hygro stem in the tank, I went a little further:

I went ahead and removed all remaining green Wendtii plants from the right side of the tank, they were located at mid level, were mostly invisible from the front of the tank, were heavily shaded by the hygro to the point where 2 of the original 5 plant plugs were compeltely wiped out.

These green Wendtiis have been replanted between the Anubias (to their right) and the brown Wendtii (to their left) in the area formerly know as Rock Valley. I dont know how they will handel the replant or the larger amount of light, but I pretty much had to do something.

This also concluded in the right area being all available for the hygro and I planted it there rather densly but overall in much less of an area than what it occupied beforehand.

Here is the Wendtii

Attached Image:

New Wendtii Spot



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Ok, shift of topic for a while, on to fishies. I actually did not want to show any Otos, but I was happy to see most of them in the tank. Nevertheless, I only counted 5 out of 6, but that is more than I can account for most of the days.

So, here is an Oto

Attached Image:

Oto



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And here is a shot of two more Otos. If you look at the one in the background, doesn't he/she look somewhat like one of these leopard Otos or whatever they are called?

I like the way Otos "freeze" when approached, their way of defense.

Attached Image:

2 Otos



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The main fish of this week was the Espei. I managed to sell 30 of them to the LFS (trade in for Apistos, in case you didn't know). I avoided selling the fully grown original 12 and very young ones. I attempted to count how many are left in the tank during the water change, I guess it must be somewhere between 35 and 40, hard to tell.

This means that I have in the tank:

- 2 Pearls
- 2 Apistos
- 6 Rainbows
- 6 Otos
- 40 Espei

= 56 Fishies, that should be a managable number. Given tetratech's persistent statement that my lare number of fish is part of my algae problem, let's see if this makes a difference.

In honor, here is an Espei (female - middle aged):

Attached Image:

Espei



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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 14:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here, almost simply for the fun of it, is a colorful shot of the area where my Nana and Barteri (and Congensis) are located. In the following two pictures I will ask a question with regards to the smaller crypts in the foreground, but they are hard to identify in this shot. This side of the tank looks very natural, with all the plants growing into each other.

Attached Image:

Field



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On to the last two pictures of this series, but have a question attached (actually, it is the same question).

I purchased a bunch of different Crypts over time and lost track of which one is which. Two of them started off looking almost the same, but one grew quite tall compared to the other and its leaves also look a little different.

I believe that one of them is a Lucens, while the other is a Lutea. Any idea which is which?

Here is the taller one, approximately 4 to 5 inches tall:

Attached Image:

Crypt I



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And here is the smaller one, the shot was taken from the top of the tank when the water had its lowest point during the water change. The plant is at max 2 inches tall, most leaves are beween 1 and 3 inches long and grow pretty much sideways rather than up.

That is it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Crypt II



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56 Fishies, that should be a managable number. Given tetratech's persistent statement that my lare number of fish is part of my algae problem, let's see if this makes a difference.
For how long, with those rabbits in there. Let's go back to basics:

Sing to the theme of "One Fish, Two Fish"

More fish, more poop
more poop, more waste
more fish, more food
more poop, more waste
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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 15:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
This was probably discussed a while ago and I missed it, but LF, rather that cull the fish, why not just get an extra filter?

It's not that I disagree with the low-bioload being easier idea because that's pretty well set, but to what degree? I don't think you have a ton of fish in there for a 125 gallon tank. How is it that Amano is able to keep schools of 100+ fish of similar size as espei in similar sized or even smaller tanks without problems? And this is a long term deal as well, not just for a photo shoot. I think the algae outbreaks have more to do with stirring up the substrate and not enough filtration than just having too many fish.


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 16:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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rather that cull the fish, why not just get an extra filter?
Culling? Who is culling? I only ever culled fish in my 29G, but never in this tank. If you call a trade culling then so be it, but otherwise

Ok - here are a few comments to this quote:

- The number of Espei in the tank was too large. If you have fish of one school spread out throughout the tank you rarely have a chance to see them parade as a school. Yes, they do hang out in formation, but real perusing did occur only after feeding, I guess they had some form of a workout program to stay in shape. With a smaller number of fish this school swim thing happens more often.

- My main reason not to get a second filter is the current. I find my tank to have more than enough current for my fish, actually they mostly like to hang out in the area below the spraybar current, I assume because it is the least strong there.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 22:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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If you call a trade culling then so be it, but otherwise


Please take no offense, it was a poor word choice, just meant thinning out the populations.

Those are good enough reasons, I was just trying to think of some other ways that didn't invlove thinning them out...


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 22:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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No problem NowherMan6,

I just feel very guilty when I cull fish, taking its life although the fish is perfectly healthy and what not (not so if it is sick, I have no sorrow in that case).

Trading fish in is very hard for me as well, I never know where they will end up, but I can be almost certain that it will be at best equal to what I have to offer. So, in most cases, they will end up less fortunate than before

That are the times when I try really hard to remove myself from the emotional attachment to the fishies and try my best to see them as goods, but more often then not I am aware that I fool myself, they are my babies

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 22:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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- My main reason not to get a second filter is the current. I find my tank to have more than enough current for my fish, actually they mostly like to hang out in the area below the spraybar current, I assume because it is the least strong there.


Current also means food movement. Thus why I caught so many small mouth bass last night....

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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 00:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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That are the times when I try really hard to remove myself from the emotional attachment to the fishies and try my best to see them as goods, but more often then not I am aware that I fool myself, they are my babies

Spend some time in a LFS and you'll lose your emotional attachment very quickly. No offense LFS workers, but with the volume of fish there are so many casualties, etc. in any given day even in the best stores.

Your "too much flow" ponders another point. Eheims are marketed as a superior biological filter because of the size and contact that the water has with the biomedia. If you compare othe brands to the Ehiems their flow rates are much higher for the same tank size, because eheim claims the slower flow brings more contact with the biomedia thus filtering the water better. So if you took two filters and slowed the flow on both of them. You would have double the biomedia compared to the one filter but slower flow thru each. Wouldn't this solve your current problem and also increase filtration.

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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 00:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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The 2nd crypt is definately a Willisii, not sure if it's Willisii "Lucens" but could be.

I believe the first one to be Lutea.They get quite big about 8ins.


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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 05:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Bensaf for the Plant ID, the Lutea took forever to reach its current height of 4 to 5 inches, so I assume I would have to wait quite a while longer for it to get to 8.

I guess I will have to see when I am willing to shell out another $200 for a second filter for the tank. I promise I will think about it.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 14:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'm unwilling to beleive that the tank has too much flow, sorry LF. If anything your fish are just being lazy couch potatoes, they can definitely handle more flow, and will probably be more fit as well(yes, there's such thing as a "fat" fish, SW tanks are notorious for too little flow, thus creating lazy fish) At the same time, I would think that it would be able to keep up with the bioload, it is a bit overrated for your tank, but I'm not experienced with eheims. I find fluvals expensive.



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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 15:47Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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just being lazy couch potatoes




Well, you may be right, but the only fish that hang right in the current are the contenders for the "Espei of the Day" award, aka upcoming younger males that use the current as a fitness studio.

Plus - I have a small Rio 50 power head in there to help shooting the CO2 bullets all the way to the other end of the tank.

And about Fluval being , I am surprised you haven't shown us you DIY canister filter yet, Matty. Rigged from an old blender engine, an old coke bottle, and bycicle tires as the hoses

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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 15:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I'm unwilling to beleive that the tank has too much flow, sorry LF.
I would have to agree with this.
Plants and hardscape also break up flow so the fish would have plenty of room to move out of the flow, etc.

Actually the 2028 has about 40% more gph than my ecco 2236 and your tank is about 40% bigger, so I think we are in the same ballpark, although your tank is only about 30% bigger from left to right. In my tank I could see the wisteria all the way on the right (opposite side of spraybar) swaying gently in the current.

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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 16:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Rigged from an old blender engine, an old coke bottle, and bycicle tires as the hoses


I've thought about rigging up a cannister, but once you add it all up it's probably pretty similar in price, and less functional.



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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 20:14Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I've thought about rigging up a cannister
I am not surprised, if there is anyone I know who could do that then it is you, Matty

Tetratech - I can't let go of the second filter topic just yet. If you say that proportionally we are in the same ballpark with our filters, and if I count our fishies (in which case I actually now have less than you), then shouldn't my current one filter setup be sufficient?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 13:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Tetratech - I can't let go of the second filter topic just yet. If you say that proportionally we are in the same ballpark with our filters, and if I count our fishies (in which case I actually now have less than you), then shouldn't my current one filter setup be sufficient?


LF,
I don't propose to be a scientist, I try to use my gut and keep things simple. If your algae issues are ending then this is a moot point, but yes I believe our filtering capacity to be similiar, but that's where the similiaries end.

For starters you are running more light. I'm not sure exactly what your midday burst is but you have alot of light. IMO it is very difficult to maintain an algae free tank by traditional means with that light, fish load/feeding. Feeding and hight light is one of the most understated problems in planted aquaria. Because not only are you leaving behind uneaten food on the substrate, but you are causing the fish to poop more. It's a double-edged sword that combined with high-light is lethal combination.

If you continue to have algae problems and your plants are growing than something is out of balance and it's not your ferts.


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 14:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Good points, and it makes a lot of sense, tetratech. Thanks a lot

My midday burst is only 1 hour (3 to 4 PM), my total light duration is 10 hours (11 AM to 9 PM - and keep in mind that the tank is in the basement, ergo has very little natural light coming in beforehand).

Feeding has been reduced, based on your advice, and includes at least one non-feeding day per week.

I am slowly changing the tank around little by little, trying to make it nicer and to create more of a scape. This process may increase the chance of algae temporarily, but we will see how this evolves in the long term.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 14:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 15:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Tetra provided a nice summary of the extra filter idea. Just to add my own two cents: it seems to come down to whether you want sufficient filtration, or extra filtration, and rule of thumb is when it comes to filters, go with too much rather than too little.

If you look around on other plant websites like APC and plantedtank.net, look a the set-ups for larger tanks, especially long ones. There's just about ALWAYS two filters on those things. As tetra said, the idea isn't necessarily strength of flow, but the amount of bio-media available for bacteria to colonize, which in turns allows the removal of the things that cause algae in high light tanks. You could always turn down the flow rates to stop water of swishing around so much and bending the plants, but this would still allow for more fitler colonization. Just an idea... and it is a lot of money to put in for something that may not be necessary.


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 15:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Nice follow-up, Nowher, glad someone is one the same page as me.

Just an idea... and it is a lot of money to put in for something that may not be necessary.

To be a true protist buster, I believe in attacking from both ends, so ideally you would want to go with a bigger or another filter and you reduce lighting, fish load/feeding, but any of these would help. The filter isn't necessary, but hey if LF wants stock which most people do than you need the filter.

I'll give too extreme examples with and without much "visible" algae.

Outdoor fish pond:
Closed system with a high waste load and all that light (sun) causes most of these systems to always have unslightly algae problems. Plant mass usually isn't all that great.

Natural Coral Reef:
Ever snokel or scuba thru these. Crystal clear water teeming with life. Same sun, but an endless biofilter from the reef,live rock, etc.

So in order to come closer to nature, one must increase the capacity of the filter so the system is larger. Isn't this the whole idea in saltwater, with hugh sumps, etc.

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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 16:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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What if you just add an extra bio area to the filter. PVC in line with your can. filled with bio balls?

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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 16:54Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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All are very good ideas, thank you very much guys.

I will consider each option carefully (meaning - it will take some time for me to change something).

Now a days I am enjoying the increased swimming activities of my Espei, finally they have some space to move around

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 17:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Outdoor fish pond:
Closed system with a high waste load and all that light (sun) causes most of these systems to always have unslightly algae problems. Plant mass usually isn't all that great.


This hits home. Tons of people come in every day asking why they have algae in their ponds. My answer: Light and waste. Then I get this look: . I ask what filter they are using, and they tell me what kind of pump they have for their waterfall. "That's not a filter." Then I get this look: . I show them our setups which are 5Gal. buckets ghetto rigged with bioballs and filter floss. They either walk out with a tetra brand or a good idea in their head. I also ask how many plants they have floating on the surface(light) or something else to block the light. "Oh, I got a couple of these, and a couple of these." I tell them that having 1/2 to 3/4 of the pond covered will help reduce the amount of light that hits the pond, and the extra plant load will help pull out waste. I get this look: . The ones that follow my suggestions then give me this look a few weeks later .

What if you just add an extra bio area to the filter. PVC in line with your can. filled with bio balls?


DIY - I like it



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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 04:16Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Yeah,

Me and DIY .

I would spend so much time on research and development that, if I calculate the hours times the money I should be paid for this time, it will run way more expensive then if I simply go out and buy an off the shelf unit.

But maybe I can contract Matty to rigg me one

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 14:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
WOW

I just came back from the Big Al's website and to my surprise I cannot find Tropica Master Grow there anymore?

What is going on, am I just not able to find it?

If it isn't sold anymore (and I need a BIG bottle) what is a feasible replacment? They have 2 liter bottles of Seachem Flourish, would that be the equivalent, or i Flourish Trace missing in that equation?

Any help would be appreciated,

Ingo

EDIT: They also have 2 liter and 4 liter bottles of Flourish Trace, should I go for both together (Flourish and Flourish Trace)?


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I just came back from the Big Al's website and to my surprise I cannot find Tropica Master Grow there anymore?


LF,
You have to call them. They are overhauling their website and it's all screwed up. I have all these VIP points and it's not showing up

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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 19:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Aih

I have thousands of points as well, and would like to add more. I guess if I call them then I would not get the points for this order, right (I am also buying a AC 50 filter for my neighbor, I can't stand his catridge throw-out filter for his 10G)?

Thanks so far tetratech,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 19:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I have thousands of points as well, and would like to add more. I guess if I call them then I would not get the points for this order, right (I am also buying a AC 50 filter for my neighbor, I can't stand his catridge throw-out filter for his 10G)?


They might accomdate you on the points if you call.

BTW - I stopped buying set catridges for my filters. I have an AC 20 on my 12g and I have some efisubstrate in a bag and the sponge that comes with the filter, so I never have to replace anything.


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 20:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And I use only sponges (2 on top of each other) in my AC50 and AC70.

But, to get back on topic, let us assume they don't have TMG anymore, is Flourish AND Flourish Trace its replacement that I should use? And if so, in what proportions (50/50 or 25/75 or what)?

Thanks,

I will wait for the answer before I call,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 20:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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But, to get back on topic, let us assume they don't have TMG anymore, is Flourish AND Flourish Trace its replacement that I should use? And if so, in what proportions (50/50 or 25/75 or what)?


I could only speak from my own experience, but I don't use trace anymore, I just use Flourish 3 times weekly. I haven't used Flourish potassium, trace as long as I could remember and I'm not really using Flourish Iron anymore either.

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Boah,

there is actually a thread on APC with regards to Tropica and the TMG. Supposedly they have a marketing change and do all kinds of stuff.

Just type Tropica Master Grow in the search at APC and then select the ""Tropica Plant Nutrition+ Liquid" - new Tropica products availability?" thread.

Guess I am out of luck

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 20:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yup,

So I called Big Al and guess what:

They do not have TMG per se anymore, instead they are getting this week the whole new line of Tropica plant care products.

I had a very nice and knowledged gentleman on the phone, he informed me that instead of one mix there are now 15 or so components that one would have to buy (I guess he included the macros) .

It is not on the website yet as not all products have been shipped from Tropica just yet, but keep your eyes open - it should be there within this week.

I bought TMG for its simplicity, what are they thinking!!!!

I guess I will go with a smaller bottle of Flourish for the time being until we know more about this Tropica Attack.

Thanks,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 20:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I bought TMG for its simplicity, what are they thinking!!!!


Then I think you'll be fine with the Flourish (It's got FE in it) I havent seen any difficienies and my Rotala has nice red hues to it.

I'd like to say a small pray, for all of us living thru this heatwave that we don't lose power. My unheated swimming pool is reading 90F.



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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 20:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Can someone clarify for me: what exactly was Tropica master grow? Was is a combination of macros and micros? Just Micros and traces? Did it contain Ca and Mg?


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By Flourish you mean the Seachem Flourish right? It's funny that this came up as I was asking a similar question in my 25 log.

As for the heat... well not much sympathy here! After spending my whole life in Sunny Central Florida and now Houston that is pretty much the norm in the summer time. It is kind of funny that you all are pretty much hotter than us right now though.


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 23:10Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Rick - Sure, tell us what softies we are, but for notherners like us this is pretty hot, plus about 5000% humidity ().

I used TMG for my micros, and I think this is what it was mostly composed of. I don't even know the exact content, I believed Bensaf and Untitled that it was good as they introduced me to fertilizers by telling me I always have to carry a bottle of it around, no matter where I go.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 23:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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TMG is a micro fert. The best for me. It seems to give plants a sheen that others are lacking. Flourish is good too. No need for the Trace if using the regular Flourish.

The change in the Tropica products is a bit confusing but no means does it mean you need a lot of bottles to replace TMG.

A bit of background - Tropica was bought out about a year or so back. There is a new CEO. This new range is his idea it would seem.

While I would agree with the idea of the new products - which are basically a response to the hobby becoming more sophiscated and high tech, the insistance on producing products that "contain no nitrate or phosphate" is now old hat - the name change is a marketing disaster IMO.

Basically TMG will still be the same product but with a new name Aqua something or other.Still a micro fert. The other products are a macro fert with N+P, a potassium fert, a root tab and I think an Iron only fert. Pretty much like the Seachem range. If you are using the dry chems you'd still only need the micro fert. The other are a replacement for the dry chems which can be pretty hard to get in some parts (especially Europe), after all KNO3 can be used in bomb making, it was certainly an old favorite of the IRA before Cemtex was so easy to get hold of.

Check the Tropica website for more info.


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Thanks for the info Bensaf

I am mostly with you on the marketing blunder of this move. I also assume that I will have to read up more on these new products, all I can say so far is that the guy on the phone from Big Al's said that there is not ONE product that will replace TMG, but multiple that need to be used in combination. I easily imagined that the new series will include a "most micros in one shot" product, but also that Iron would be excluded from this product and has to be bought seperately. Besides that there may be other micros (mostly calcium and magnesium) that I could see in individual products.

Guess we will find out soon enough.

Ingo


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Wingsdlc
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LF,

Sorry to hear that your Micro Fert is on its way out. Change really sucks sometimes! It seems that people are always out there trying to make a buck and that makes our lives a pain in the butt.

I have been using Flourish in my tank with Flourish Iron. Flourish has low % of your Macros and all the micros including iron. The only reason I am using Iron on top of reg. Flourish is an expermental thing. I am finding that my crypts are much more red in color with it. Other than that I don't see any real change.

Hoped that helped!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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LITTLE_FISH
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Sure did help Wings,

The more people confirm tetratech's usage the more reliable the information becomes (at least if the right people confirm it).

All we will have to do now is to find a Guinea Pig to test out the new Tropica stuff

Ingo


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The more people confirm tetratech's usage the more reliable the information becomes (at least if the right people confirm it).

What me and my exciting "still life" tank isn't proof enough.

Remember you also have alot of goodies in your eco. Well 3 out 4 ain't bad. I think that's a song, or no that's 2 out of 3

My Scapes
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Come on Tetratech,

Don't get too angry at us for talking about your Still Life.

Without a doubt is your tank in much better shape than my 125, in any aspect (well, I may have closed in on the proper fish count with the latest trade though). We bring this up because there is nothing else to bicker about

Ingo


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All we will have to do now is to find a Guinea Pig to test out the new Tropica stuff
NOT IT!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 03-Aug-2006 20:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Flourish is good too. No need for the Trace if using the regular Flourish.
For traces, I've been using Flourish Trace - but should I be using regular Flourish instead?

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TW
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Trace
Flourish

I think that Flourish has everything that Trace has and more. I haven't look really super close at it though. Personaly I would do Regular Flourish for your micros. For no other reason than the iron. Though I think we get quite a bit of micros from our WC's. Thats just me though and my two cents.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 04-Aug-2006 02:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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All we will have to do now is to find a Guinea Pig to test out the new Tropica stuff


If I can get hold of it I will definately be trying it. I have a lot of faith in Tropica. Anybody who's tried their plants will tell you that. The quality is miles ahead of anything else. My Anubias and Crypt Spiralis came from Tropica - stunning quality.

Micros are very hard to get hold of here. I'm on my last dose of TMG (which I had to pick up in S'pore). There's is nobody selling TMG here anymore and only 1 place I know selling Flourish but it's in the middle of Chinatown and a bugger to get to. All I have at the moment is some unknown S'pore brand.


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So I guess there is no way that you would get this stuff right away, except if you would take a "short" trip to Singapore over the weekend .

I have a while to go (maybe two months at least) before I will be in crisis mode again, at least when it concerns micros, otherwise I am in crisis mode all the time anyway .

I ordered 2 liters of flourish and will see how it works out. I would assume that regular dosage volumes, based on Seachem instructions, is sufficient, right?

Ingo


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I would assume that regular dosage volumes, based on Seachem instructions, is sufficient, right

That's pretty much what I do, 3 times weekly.

My Scapes
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So that is what I will do then as well, as soon as my TMG is totally empty (I may have about 2 to 3 weeks of stuff left).

Thanks tetratech,

Ingo


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I think the bottle says 1 or 2 times per week, so I'm going alittle over. Following Master Hodge Podge

BTW - I just ran out of my first container of Stump Remover (NO3) since I started the tank. It was a 16oz (454grams) container of powdered (no3)

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NowherMan6
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tetra, are you going to switch to greg watson KNO3? I like the fact that it's much more powdery than Green Light (which I have), seems to dissolve better right in the WC.


Back in the saddle!
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tetratech
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tetra, are you going to switch to greg watson KNO3? I like the fact that it's much more powdery than Green Light (which I have), seems to dissolve better right in the WC.

I actually bought two containers when I first purchased at Lowes. So I have a full 16oz to go. Your right it's a larger grain size then the more powdery stuff. I basically take a plastic cup scoop some tank water into it. Pour in the no3 and po4, stir and pour it into the tank.

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So I don't know if it is true around your neck of the woods but Lowes doesn't have Green Light Stump Remover any more. I have checked both stores in my area and nothing. They have another stump remover but it doesn't say what it is inside! GRR! I think I will be making a greg W. order sometime in the next couple of months. I am down to about 1/2 my contaner for Green Light.

In terms of Flourish I am doing 1 capful of Reg. Flourish (2L cap) and 1 cap of the Iron (small cap). This I do 3 times a week.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Thanks,

I will try to get by without adding additional Iron, as I didn't purchase any

Then we have to manage to get Bensaf some of the new Tropica products so he can try them out for us.

Ingo


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 45

Not too much to say at all this week, the tank is growing and the ferts are flowing

Overall, not too much has happened, most concerned the end of the TMG era as Tropica is now selling new products that are not yet available. So I will try Flourish for a while, I will let you know when the TMG stock I have is depleted.

Strangely, I still see maybe 5 to 10 hyro leaves floating every week. This started after the power outagae over two weeks ago and had never happened before. Any ideas?

Here is the tank last weekend (comparison):

Attached Image:

Last Week



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And here is the tank now this weekend after the water change. I have to remember to turn off the light in the 40G as its reflection always creates a line in this tank when taking a picture, sorry about that.

The Star Grass is just becoming visible again, I find the growth rather slow these days. It may also be related to the fact that I had to cut them so short after the power outage.

Attached Image:

Now



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And here is a shot of the top part at low tide, during water change.

I like how the wood, anubias, and Alternanthera peek out of the water. Maybe I should reduce the water level permanently to this height and make it a palladium. But I guess that means that I have to get rid of even more fishies.

And this is it for this week, nothing more to show.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Top Part



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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/detected.php?page=&pass=
Ok the link only goes to the main page. Go to the gallory, planted tanks and it is #18.

This is probably one of my favorite tanks.


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 06-Aug-2006 15:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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For me #15 is an abosolute masterpiece. A great layout for a big tank. It's a tank that anybody with the vision could grow. Fairly low maintenance which is important for big tanks. It's very similar to a tank by Luis Navarro which is just slightly better.
I get the sense this was a look Ingo was originally aiming for but it got off track.

#26 is also a nice layout for a big tank but a lot more work.

While we're at it take a look a pics #6 thru 8. This is what I envisioned the 40gal breeder to look like. Very simple but clever design.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 07-Aug-2006 04:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So for LF to get the effect of 5-8 he would have to use Nana and nana pittea or whatever it is.

I think he was really on the right track but then his plants drowned the hard scape.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 07-Aug-2006 13:55Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks guys, I will have to take a closer look at the suggested numbers, but I am pretty sure that I had seen the one for the 40 before, and yes - I tried something like that.

But I assume that is what seperates me from Jeff Senske.

Ingo


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But I assume that is what seperates me from Jeff Senske.

Ingo don't sell yourself short. Nothing against Jeff S he is very talented at what he does. But he does this for a living and I'm sure has a large inventory of wood, plants, rocks etc to choose from to make the layout look just right. It's becuase of this reason in my opinion why it's very hard to judge aquascaping contests, etc on an equal playing field. I know they have budget scaping contests as well, but it's still difficult.

My Scapes
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bensaf
 
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I'm sure has a large inventory of wood, plants, rocks etc to choose from to make the layout look just right.


This is true to a large extent. A lot of us start with a vision in our head - then out out to get the wood, rocks and plants and then can't find what we're looking for and end up "comprimising".Having high quality materials readily at hand is a huge bonus.

The opposite can be true also, some just pick up a pile of stuff and then try to make a 'scape out of whatever is at hand. That rarely works.

But desipte all that I do believe certain people just have a "gift" for this thing - an eye. If you or I had access to the same materials that some of these guys have are you still confident you could do as good a job? I'm not

Some seem to have the ability to see how the tank is going to look 6 months down the line and allow for that (but that's probably mostly experience and observation of plants). Self control (of which I'm sorely lacking) is a necessity. An eye for detail and balance.

Look at the rocks in the pic I mentioned as a masterpiece, there's a lot of them, yet I can't find one in the'scape that's in the wrong place or the wrong size. They all look perfect and natural as if they've always been there. The fact that the guy may have had to choose those rocks from hundreds he had on hand, to me, makes the achievment in the 'scape more admirable rather then less !

Remember the old story? If you leave enough monkeys alone in a room with a typewriter in time maybe one of them will do a Shakespeare. Maybe if you left us in a room with a tank and a pile of ADA kit, rocks, wood and plants , maybe one of us would pull of a tank to rival Senske or Amano.
Maybe. To my mind a big maybe. Fair dues to these guys, they have a genuine sense of creativity. They're arists we're merely artisans.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 08-Aug-2006 04:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I certainly couldn't guarantee how my creations would fair, but I could tell you that I'd rather have a closet of DW, rocks and plants to choose from than none at all. Look how good Imelda Marcus looked with all those shoes to match her outfits.

I've tried to make the most out of crappy DW, a few stem plant species and a whole lot of weeds (Wisteria).
Yes some of us have an eye for this others do not. I think it's easier to make a rock front look natural when you have more to choose from (statisically there is a greater likelihood that you'll fine ones that achieve harmony) In addtion to inventory Jeff S also has the advantage of multiple canvases to practice what works and what doesn't. When you do somthing hundreds of times you do tend to work out the kinks. Most people do get better when you get more touches.

I'll end as I began, I'm not taking anything away from Jeff S he obviously has alot of talent, but I would still rather be able to work with all his toys, both in and out of the tank as opposed to my sorry little collection of sticks and stones.

My Scapes
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No doubt does availablitlity of high quality and quantity of scaping material and plants (and fancy ADA soil, one may add) have something to do with the outcome of a planted tank design.

And also, no doubt does talent and experience play a major role in the scaping process.

Given that I have None-Of-The-Above, my tank is what it is. Pretty good for an average dude, but nothing more.

On the other hand, exactly this is what gives me the option to constantly fiddle with it. To be honest, an perfect tank frightens me as I would not know what to do with it. In some stages of tetratech's tanks (both) I am looking at the pictures and think to myself "and what now".

I, for one thing, fell in love with the ability to change things around all the time, called a tank redo "Ingo Style". The most pleasing of all tanks to change is the 20G, as a whole redo takes me as long as a regular water change and trimming on the 125G.

Ingo


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Hi there all,

10 days with no entries in my log, neither by me nor anybody else.

Anyway, I have been ultra busy at work, at the same time I had friends over from Germany for a few days, and then I went on vacation and replaced the view into my tanks (which, btw, are going down the drain, the 125 is now BBA paradise, but more maybe tomorrow or Sunday about that).

I just came back from the trip and thought to let you know that I am still around. Gotta go and unpack now, till later,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Last Week's Highlight



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NowherMan6
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LF,

Glad to see you're back. Sorry about the tanks - you didn't go crazy and start dumping SW fish into your FW tanks now did you?


Back in the saddle!
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No, I did not add salt to the freshwater tanks, although it wouldn't make much difference in the 125 anyway these days, inconsistent fertilization and a lack of attention have done quite some damage.

But glad to see that you haven't lost your humor, makes me feel good.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 18-Aug-2006 22:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ingo, Midnight Madness is coming up at ABS. It's going to be my first time as a customer. Just wondering if you planned on attending. I'd like to catch up!
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Mike,

I guess Midnight Madness is in a week, right? I will have to think about it, there is really nothing at the moment that I would need, except maybe a huge load of plants for this tank, which I am sure they don't have.

Can you think of something that would make it worthwhile standing in line forever?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 18-Aug-2006 23:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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...you mean aside from keeping me company?

Ummm, I really don't know. I don't really want anything either. I'm going to pick up a bag of Eco Complete and see if I can win some free stuff. If I have to wait in line I'll be pissed!
Post InfoPosted 19-Aug-2006 00:07Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Welcome back LF, hope your visitors & holiday gave you some great chill out time.

Anyway, what's the story with the clown You can't just put a pic up without telling us what it all means. Is there soon to be darkside log for LF. BTW, it's a nice clown.

Cheers
TW
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was wondering why you hadnt posted ingo, hope you had fun on holidays







one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen , thats all you need.

OH TOLEEDY!
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w00! a 125 SW reef tank. Nice jorb LF!/:'



Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients
Post InfoPosted 19-Aug-2006 06:26Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Mike - If I go then I may not get there before 1 AM, that's usually when the line gets shorter. How much do you think the Eco will go for?

Robyn and Matty - Yeah right, I got a 125G reef tank . Actually, I am currently in the middle of editing about 30 pictures of fishies from an aquarium that I visited, the best shots out of 200 that I made. I will post most of them in the marine section and some in the general freshwater, once editing is completed. I personally am so not ready for any salt tank, no way such an entity will enter the Little_Fish houseold any time soon.

Dan - Glad to see that you are peaking in once in a while

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Aug-2006 12:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
I didn't really think you'd started a reef tank, just wanted to know the meaning of the clown pic.

I agree too, that I am soo not ready for a reef tank either, but that's what hubby has started up & my birthday present to him was one year's maintenance on his tank - I just didn't know it was going to be a reef

Cheers
TW
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my birthday present to him was one year's maintenance on his tank
- Even if it would have been a planted freshwater tank, that is a very generous present that you gave there.

Ingo


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Welcome back Ingo. Looking forward to seeing the new pictures. This place sure does slow down though when the LF isn't posting.

Rick
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So where did you go LF!?!?!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Thanks Rick - btw, haven't seen any new shots or stories about your tanks lately either

Wings - I was just at the end of Long Island, still in the state of New York.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 46 AND 47

The last two weeks were marked by a busy work schedule and vacation, and on top of it a declining tank. At least part of that decline can be directly attributed by the lack of frequent fertilization over that time period.

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend - Week 46



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When I came home from the trip I found that the BBA has greatly increased, something that tetratech usually attributes to a lack of CO2. In my case, that was the only stable thing this tank received (besides light).

So this week's maintenance focussed on removing dead or heavily infested plant tissue, and it also sees the start of another round of Excel treatment to control the BBA. The isoetes lacustris had been so badly infested that I had to remove it completely.

When one looks at the tank now with regards to scaping, it is a mess. There is no scape, just plants. I am the least happy with this tank ever since I set it up 47 weeks ago. I simply cannot invision how this should continue, except with another major overhaul, and we all know what that means

Here is the tank this week:

Attached Image:

This Weekend



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All I can show now are a few BBA shots, they sprout on hardware, wood, and plants (mostly on leaves that are not growing fast, like anubias and isoetes, as well as dying leaves).

First one from the top of the tank, the highest branch near the light:

Attached Image:

BBA I



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Here is another one on some driftwood, but much further down in the tank and in a much darker section. Oh, btw, I believe I do not have a short high light period, as plants low to the bottom of the tank wither away, like most of my tenellus.

Attached Image:

BBA II



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And this is how the BBA looks when anchored on an Anubias leaf, I can clearly see why it contains the word beard in its name as it collects itself on the edges of the leaves.

That is it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

BBA III



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I am really sorry your tank is filling up with BBA again. I would try to combat it with two things.

1. Excel to the extreme
2. Lighting break

In my tank for the past month or so I have been doing the lighting break to control the GSA. It seems to be working thus far with no signs of plant problems.

What I am doing is run the light for 5-6 hours then take a 2 hour break then back with another 5-6 hours of light. Now don't get my wrong I do have some algae but it has really really slowed down. Aglae needs long periods of light to photosynthesize while the plants can turn it on and off quickly. My plants do not pearl as much as they used to but they are still growing well. Pearling is not really a sign of growth as we have talked about before.

That's just my $0.02



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Thanks Wings,

I knew about the light midday break ever since I started in this hobby, and I actually used it immediately on my first tank (the 29). I kept it like that for a few months before I switched to a non-break cycle and I had seen no difference from before and after.

The reasons could be related to the fact that it was a medium light / low tech tank, but there is also a chance that it doesn't work as simple as that. I know way too little about algae to understand if a break after 4 to 5 hours of lights-on would actually harm them, or hinder their growth. Could it be that you see less algae because your overall light period has been shortened as well?

I will have to read up on that topic again, I guess. Right now I cannot recall any statement from the famous planters that suggests such a method.

Ingo


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The book it got the idea from is:

Encyclopedia of Aquarium plants by Peter Hiscock.

Basicly what it says is what I have already said. Aglae can not photosynthesize without long lighting periods but the plants can. It might be worth trying just to see in your high tech tank. Seems to be working for me.

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Wings,

thanks for the info, I think I have this book

If I am not mistaken then this is the same book that suggests the use of an UGF, right?

Ingo


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When one looks at the tank now with regards to scaping, it is a mess. There is no scape, just plants. I am the least happy with this tank ever since I set it up 47 weeks ago. I simply cannot invision how this should continue, except with another major overhaul, and we all know what that means


Hey LF, I'm sorry you feel this way. I know exactly how you feel though, because that's how I felt about my 46 before I tore it down. You just feel like you have no vision, that it's so out of whack you don't know where to take it.

And keep in mind, I like the way your tank looks, at least from afar. Plants are healthy as are the fish. My old 46 looked that way too, but the blemishes are there when you look at it up close.

It's a real personal thing, these tanks. I don't want to tell you do this or do that. The thing that helped me was tearing down the tank and making plans to start over, and taking it reeeal slow and planning.

And keep in mind, even Amano says that sometimes a tank's lifespan is only a year, that sometimes the vitality of the stems runs out and the look becomes so muddled you have to start over. It wouldn't be a failure, it's just a learning experience. The thing that would make it difficult with this tank is that the plants in there already are infected with algae, so would have to be discarded. It's a big financial commitment to start over. It's also an opportunity to do things from the get go that you wish you'd done earlier.

Sorry, I hate being the pessimist You've got to do what you think is best, but if you're going to do it over, go all out and start anew.


Back in the saddle!
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks NowherMan6,

I knew you would understand

The biggest problem with starting anew would be that I cannot really take it slow then either. I have about 50 fish to house right away

If I didn't have any fish, or only so many that I could move them to the other tanks for the time being, I would rip that sucker apart in minutes

Ingo

EDIT: This was my 5000th post


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Congrats LF on the 5000th post! Rock on!

I have not found anything about UGF in this book. You might be thinking of the Encyclopedia of Aquarium Fish book.

Nowher has some good points but it is very hard being you have so many fish. Plus it is hard to let go of what you have and start over on something new.

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Wings,

Albeit it is hard to let go of things, but when it comes to plants, decoration, and substrate though I have no hesitation to do. Why else would there be the term "Tank Redo - Little_Fish Style", or something like that, here on FP .

If it wasn't for the upsetting of the balance inside the tank, I probably would do these things once every other month. This way, I could make 24 different tanks out of the 4 that I have within the course of a year

Ingo


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Yeah I understand what you are saying. Right now I try to keep my planted tank stable. I pulled up my hygro moster last night to try to get the loaches out (plus it needed a bottem trimming). What a mess! I couldn't comprehend doing a LF change.

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I though I share with you what Excel can do for the algae.

This is a comparison shot after 3 days of Excelt treatment of 50ml per day. As you can see, the algae turned reddish, a sign that it is dying.

Unfortunately, not all BBA bastions in the tank look like this yet, others range from a brownish to spotted red color to not changed at all. But I will get them eventually.

Attached Image:

Top Is Before --- Bottom After 3 Days



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And, while I was taking the pictures, my fishies of course thought that I will feed them, so they collect in the top left corner of the tank for the feast. In particular the Apistos, Rainbows, and Pearls.

After I didn't feed for a few minutes, although I was in front of the tank, the male Apisto got a little ticked off and let me know that he is expecting something.



Attached Image:

Give Me Food



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Hi LF

Interested to see the excel BBA shots. As you know, I started the treatment in the 23.7G log last night. Hope it works for us both

I love your male, he's very pretty. If only I had more tanks, I want a pair just like yours or tretratech's.

Cheers
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If only I had more tanks
Oh oh, this is usually the first step towards a new tank

Tetratech's Apsitos are nice, I agree. But mine are rarer , or do you know someone else here with viejita IIs

Anyway, its all just fun and games

Yeah, keep us posted how that Excel treatment is working out. I remember that the first time I did it the results showed rather quickly. The next time it had almost no effect, I don't know why.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Oh oh, this is usually the first step towards a new tank
No chance. At this stage, I'm banned from going ahead with my 4ft - it's empty in the garage & I had to shut down my little hospital tank

Apistos can be hard to find here. There are a few LFS that stock them though. Lots of africans, bolivians & ram's, they're pretty common. I can find Cac's, tetratech's (too lazy to find name), as well as some others, but my Bitaeniata was a rarer find & I haven't seen any viejita IIs. To get a viejita IIs, I'd probably need to pre order & wait ages (like I did for the dehane - & you know I gave up there). For some reason, I don't think there's enough demand for them. But maybe if they were in more LFS, that would create more demand

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LF,

Are you dosing Excel to the whole take or trying to hit different infected spots?

If you go by a medical store you can pick up syringes. Not the kind with the needles but with the bigger openings. The ones we have at my store an air line hose fits great. With this you can give the algae a direct hit. Works swell!

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I am treating the entire tank as I have BBA all over the place and not only in one spot.

Btw, I did some focussed Excel treatment on my Xmas moss in the 29, with the consequence that some of the moss died within a week (see log)

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
LF,
What is your current co2 level? When did you stablize the co2 (tubing issue)? I would push the co2 as far as you can? I have an advantage because I'm around my tank more than you and I could monitor better. I notice if the fish look alittle funky toward the evening, I just nudge my spraybar above the waterline to get some agitation.

BBA definitely got worse when the co2 was erratic. Excel is just not a good long-term solution and it obviously has negative effects on some plants.


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tetratech,

Thanks for the advice, although I never had CO2 tubing issues in this tank (I know it gets confusing on which tank has what issue), that was the 40G.

I have no idea what the CO2 level in this tank is, but I assume it is pretty good as a constant bubbling, hacked into small pieces by a powerhead, is pushed through the tank all day long. I can go and measure though, just in case.

Ingo


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Oh, yeah. Me bad , but same difference. In the same way excel seems to destroy some algae, high co2 has a similar effect on it's inability to grow. I could usually tell by my hardscape if I'm going to have bba issues. The main rock gets covered if the co2 is too low, but the main rock now has been clear for about a month with constant high co2.

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Tetra,
How high do you think your CO2 is? The last time I checked mine I was well over 30ppm and I am not having any major algae issues.

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Wings,
So hard to tell by the numbers, but my ph is off the scale low (under 6 by afternoon and my kh is steady at 2.



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The last time I checked mine I was at around 6.8 at night and 7.2 in the morning with a KH of 16. That gives me a range of aboutg 78ppm at night to 30ppm in the morning. Probably a little high but I have never seen a fish gasping that the top for air.

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Weekly Tank Update - Week 48

This week was the first in three weeks that saw a frequent use of fertilizers again, plus a daily shot of Flourish Excel to combat the BBA. Both seem to have helped in improving the tanks overall health.

Here is the tank shot from last week, for comparison:

Attached Image:

Last Week



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And here is the tank now this weekend after some changes.

A purchase of some Bolbitis for the 40G meant that the Barteri from that tank had to go. Too nice to be thrown out, and too big for any of my other tanks, I added it to this one. I removed the Red Wendtii from the left side, and also disposed of the Ludwigia that was there. The whole space was then taken up by the Barteri.

The Alternanthera in that group had been moved to the back left corner, it got too tall for the spot where it was. Also, two Hygro stems sitting in front of the Star Grass had been removed.

Attached Image:

Tank Now



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As you may have noticed the Star Grass and the Hygro on the right had been growing nicely during the last week.

Here is a close-up of the Anubias group on the left side of the tank. The whole section that rised on the left side is only the one Barteri Mother Plant from the 40G.

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Anubias Group



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Here is a close-up of the Narrow Laaf Java Fern, a plant that I soon will have to do something about. It is getting too big for its current position and may need either trimming or placement somewhere else in the tank. I have some thoughts, but maybe you folks should give me your ideas on what to do with it first.

That is it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Narrow Leaf Java Fern



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Might try it back between the two large anubias. I don't know if there is room back there and if it will fit, but it might look nice there. Otherwise you could cut it up a bit and stick it on either side of the star grass. It just looks too similar to the hygro on the right to put it anywhere over there.



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My two cents:

1.Take the center push some rocks in their and make it more mound like.
2.Add anubias in and around mound.
3.Sweep stargrass around to interact with some of the other plants
4.Split the fern and divide on either said of mound and try to position some wood between it and the hygro.



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Thanks for the suggestions on what to do with the tank next. I also think that I probably will have to do something with the center group, and I fear it means that I would have to take out the wood and either chop it up or at least reposition it.

I will have to think about it for a while.

Thanks,

Ingo


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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
OK,

Here are some news with regards to this tank. I finally caved in and ordered a second filter for the tank, an Eheim 2026. This is the one I have on the 40G, and there I have it run on a slow mode. I am sure it will be more than sufficient for this tank, given that I already have a 2028 on it.

I assume it will arrive sometime next week, so I will do some changes the following weekend.

Let me see if I remember that right: place them on opposite ends of the tank, spray across the top towards the middle, maybe reduce flow on both to avoid hurricane conditions in the tank.

Ingo

Edit: oh, I just now realized that I am a contributer as well, nice


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Congratulations on now being a contributer /:'

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I finally caved in and ordered a second filter for the tank, an Eheim 2026. This is the one I have on the 40G, and there I have it run on a slow mode. I am sure it will be more than sufficient for this tank, given that I already have a 2028 on it.

I think that's a really good move. Yeah you could have the spray bars on the left and right side glass and have the co2 meet in the middle, swoooooosh

BTW - Congrats! on being a contributor. First TFH and now FishProfile, what's next? BTW - What did you contribute?


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I agree, good call on the filter. You may not see immediate results but in the long run it's definetely a good move...


Back in the saddle!
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tetratech
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Let's go back to basics. The end-product of the nitrogen cycle is no3, right?

My Scapes
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What did you contribute?


Quite a few profile changes here and there, mostly on the Espei and Viejita, plus loads of pictures from fishies.

And what's next - retirement

The end-product of the nitrogen cycle is no3, right? - Right

Ingo


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The end-product of the nitrogen cycle is no3, right? - Right

O.K. So the bacteria are releasing no3 into the water column?

My Scapes
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Among other things, like CO2(use O2 as fuel, like us) and possibly other waste products, I'm not sure.



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So the bacteria are releasing no3 into the water column?
Yes - sounds about right

Where are we going with this? Should I add less KNO3?

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Where are we going with this? Should I add less KNO3?
O.K. we are still on track, after Matty's "rude" interuption .

So if the bacteria are consistently releasing NO3 in the water then would there be more NO3 as you increase biological filtration?


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then would there be more NO3 as you increase biological filtration?
Hm, that is a trick question

Answer:

a) Yes: In general, more bio filter = more NO3
b) No: As the tank should have enough bacteria to convert all NO2 to NO3 already, with or without the second filter.

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Almost there. Does the respiration of the bacteria depend on how much nh3,no2 there is in the water. In other words does a smaller bacteria colony produce more no3 in a tank with more waste then a bigger bacterial colony in a tank with less waste?

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does a smaller bacteria colony produce more no3 in a tank with more waste then a bigger bacterial colony in a tank with less waste?


The question is not possible, as the size of the bacteria colony directly depends on the amount of waste.

Less waste = less bacteria

As such, there can never be less bacteria and more waste, except during a brief period where the colony needs to grow while more waste is produced.

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The question is not possible, as the size of the bacteria colony directly depends on the amount of waste.

Well if that was the case, wouldn't there always be enough biological filtration to deal with any amount of waste. It would simply increase on the substrate, media, glass, rocks, etc.... and would make the point of adding more capacity mute.

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Well,

Then I would rather see the original question rephrased to something like this:

"If the bacteria colony that is available in a tank is not large enough for the waste produced, will there be more NO3 than if the colony would be large enough?"

In this case, the answer would be no, as less bacteria produce less NO3.

In any case, I would like to raise an additional question:

"If plants prefer Ammonia over NO3, wouldn't plants suck of the Ammonia before the bacteria colony can convert it to NO2 and then to NO3?"

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In this case, the answer would be no, as less bacteria produces less NO3

O.K. So if that's true as you add bio capacity the more NO3 you have being produced in the tank to convert nh3. So if that's the case how would adding NO3 cause Algae?

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So if that's the case how would adding NO3 cause Algae?
Well, the only way I could think of why this would happen is if other macros or elements of the micros are out of sink, aka limiting factors.

But - and only if another thing we once concluded is true - why would I not have enough biofilter inside the tank as it is given that 2 days of power outage did not seem to cause any issues in the tank?

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There is another dimension to the problem you guys aren't thinking about. Your filter can only bring so much ammonia per unit of TIME to your biofilter. It's very possible that your bacteria population is quite large enough to reduce all the ammonia that is brought to it into nitrate. However, your filter might not be bringing all the ammonia to your bacteria. That's the reason for another filter, not that there isn't enough substrate for bacteria, but that the filter isn't quite doing the job. You are increasint the turnover RATE.

"If plants prefer Ammonia over NO3, wouldn't plants suck of the Ammonia before the bacteria colony can convert it to NO2 and then to NO3?"

No, because plants will use a VERY small amount of ammonia. Actual ammonia is probably like a treat that is few and far between, even in your tank, just trace amounts are causing the problem. They will still get the majority of their N from nitrate.

But - and only if another thing we once concluded is true - why would I not have enough biofilter inside the tank as it is given that 2 days of power outage did not seem to cause any issues in the tank?

I thought there was an increased amount of algae since then even though the plants picked up reasonable quick? I would say that you weren't feeding and the fish probably weren't producing as much waste as normal, and the bacteria in the tank was enough to handle the situation.....for the most part. Still there were probably trace amounts of ammonia left over from the problem that your filter is having a hard time catching up with, and that's what caused the algae.

Does the respiration of the bacteria depend on how much nh3,no2 there is in the water.

Yes, when you are talking about the entire colony, not the individual. Meaning there is less respiration when there is less ammonia and nitrite because there is a smaller population of bacteria, not because each bacteria is doing less.

In other words does a smaller bacteria colony produce more no3 in a tank with more waste then a bigger bacterial colony in a tank with less waste?

My answer to this: is if Ingo does have trace amounts of NH3/4 in his tank then adding another filter will increase the amount nitrate in the tank. Not so much because of a much greater number of bacteria, but because of an increased RATE at which ammonia is being rbought to the bacteria. With another filter, trace ammonia and nitrite get to the filters faster so they can break it down faster.

That's my hypothesis anyways. Or rude interruption as others might call it



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Well I could check, but I thought the general census was that two days really isn't enough time to see any significant changes. The reason I started the thread was to see reaction to no3 levels caused by bacteria. If no3 causes algae then their is a difference between the no3 we ad and the organic no3 produced.

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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Tetratech, I think you are trying to undercut the entire organic chemistry field. Some people might not like that.

But really the only difference is the source. To us, to plants, to fish, and of course the algae, NO3 is NO3(which KNO3 is once it's in solution).

EDIT: I think this is the part where bensaf comes in and smacks us around a bit and tells us what really causes algae.



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Matty,

Didn't see your thread when I posted. Anyway that's more like it. I was just kinda building up to something before and you didn't follow suit. It's that DIY in you.

Anyway I agree with much of what you said, but in a big tank isn't he majority of the biofilter in the tank itself and not for example in the canister. I don't know the biofilter capacity of gravel, plants vs the for example eheim efhisubstrate. By the way eco is lava rock and supposely had a pretty good bio capacity in it's own right?

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but in a big tank isn't he majority of the biofilter in the tank itself


I think it depends on the stocking of said tank. I think the external filter's biostuffs can be vital or it can be pointless. Whenever anybody comes into our store I stress the stuff. Why? Cause I know most people are in the tanks for looks. meaning they will overstock their tank for more "color". That means more waste, cause most people also overfeed on a large scale. Therefore, biostuffs in the filter become vitally important.



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OK,

You are loosing me there in your theoretical games (although I like them, but I can't get the point). One thing is almost for sure: When I add the new filter I will limit the flow rate on both. As such, based on what Matty says, I probably will not be any better off than with one on high flow rate as I bring just as much ammonia to the bacteria as I do now.

Ingo


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On a different note:

The storm that is currently going on here, Ernesto right, is bringing mostly rain but also some wind. This in not that good as we still have some tree damages from the storm when we had the two day power outage. Branches and even larger pieces of trees are still coming down and I would not be too surprised if we will lose the power again.

This is a view from our house onto the street. This tree cracked a little in the main storm, and today it broke

Attached Image:

TIMBER !!!



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What a beautiful tree. So sad to see such a great whack of down like that.

Good though, that nothing fell on your house. Hope everything will be ok this time & no power loss, or anything worse.

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Just wondering, how big are your pearl gouramis?
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Robyn - I guess they will have to take down the tree on the right completely as half of the main branch came off while the other half is still on with a severely weakened (in diameter) trunk.

coop - When I got them they were both (one male one female) maybe about 2 inches. Now the male is maybe close to 4 and the female a little over 3. I will post a picture of the male in a short while, so stay tuned


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 49

This week saw no special event with regards to this tank, I continued the 50ml Excel treatment to combat BBA. Most of it is gone by now, but at the same time I see an influx of green hair algae, in particular on the Anubias leaves. I assume one is directly related to the other but currently I am at a loss on what to adjust to combat it. My conclusion is that I will add another filter and see if that helps.

Once I place the second filter on the tank I will also rearrange the plants themselves, maybe even cut up the wood some more and change its position.

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Last Week



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Although I didn't plan to do much trimming this week, I could not avoid having to do more than I planned for. The Star Grass group had grown to the surface and was beginning to create so much shade at its own bottom that a die-off was very likely, and as such a fouling of the water. The same is true for the Hygro Group, its height started to influence the water flow and duck weed on the surface all the way to the right started to die off en masse. Both groups receiced a major trim.

This picture was taken with the light unit still pushed towards the back for the maintenance, I simply forgot to move it back forwards after I was done.

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Tank Now



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The Star Grass is still there, just very short again. After I removed the plants I notices that a major trim was required to ensure that only "good" parts remain.

Here is a shot from an angle showing the short group:

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Star Grass



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Now I only have a few pictures of fishies to show and then my update is done for today.

First of an Espei. Not because it is such a nice shot but to tell that the reduce size group is doing fine. I see way more swimming action than before and more interaction on a personal level between the members of the group. I have seen one younger fish that may be around 1 month old (maybe a little more), that means that repopulation is still going on.

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Espei



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Here is look at 5 of my 6 Rainbows, in attack formation

No, they actually don't attack anybody in the tank. I believe they evaluate leadership within the group and the acceptance of such by going into a formation like the one in the picture:

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Rainbows I



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Here is a closer look at that group, it is actually not the same shot than the one before but maybe has been taken a few seconds later. As one can see, the group hasn't moved to much, ergo - the group has a stable hierarchy.

I think it was Wings who mentioned the splashing of his Rainbows, but I can second that observation. With great frequency so I get water splashed out of the tank during feeding, they behave almost like trout

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Rainbows II



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Last but not least, by chance I got a nicer shot of my male pearl. Usually he is either all the way on top of the tank, or doesn't show me his side, or hiding in the plants after a water change (he is a chicken in some way, although he is the boss of the tank).

Coop, if you are thinking about getting them, I find them to be beautiful fishies. I don't know if anyone here had them before (I know bensaf does), I find their eating habit very interesting as well. When I add flakes to the tank they are right there in the mix and they even let me touch them during that time. All that time their mouth forms the letter O, it looks like they are singing in a chorus. Just cute

That is it for today,

Have fun,

Ingo

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Male Pearl



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I can definitely attest to the pearls being nice fish. I only had one back in my 38G, and was delicate, yet substantial at the same time.

I do wish that you'd turn the filters all the way up when you get the new one. Point the spray bars at the glass and it will deflect nicely. I do think this will help, but only if you are actually increasing the amount of filtration going on.



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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Beautiful pics of your fish, as always. Your tank is looking pretty sharp too.

So your pearl is the boss. I thought the boss was your apisto?

Such a shame too, that you will lose that beautiful tree outside your house.

Cheers
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Thanks for the comments

Matty - See, that is where you and tetratech are not in sink, or at least I interpret it this way. Tetratech stated that simply the fact of additional surface for bacteria will be sufficient. And I can see why that would be. If the flow rate is slower then there should be more "contact time" between filter material and ammonia (for example). This should help settle more bacteria than it does now.

Robyn - Well, the Apisto is the lord of the underworld, while the pearl is the ruler of heavens. The only time they get together is during feeding and the Pearls have no problems simply swimming over the Apistos to grab first bites. As such I declare him the ultimate king of the whole tank universe. He never shows off to any other fish than his wife, that is not needed if you are that much bigger I guess. The male Apisto though shows off to the Rainbows who once in a while get in his way.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Matty - See, that is where you and tetratech are not in sink, or at least I interpret it this way. Tetratech stated that simply the fact of additional surface for bacteria will be sufficient. And I can see why that would be. If the flow rate is slower then there should be more "contact time" between filter material and ammonia (for example). This should help settle more bacteria than it does now.


This I believe is the philosophy behind Eheim. Many Eheim canister filters that are used for planted aquaria have much less flow than other brands. If you compare flow rates beteen for example Eheim and Fluval the Fluvals have much higher GPH for the same size tank. For example:

100 Gallon Tank Max: Eheim Pro 2026 - 250gph / Fluval 405 - 340gph

70/80 Gallon Tank Max: Eheim Ecco 2236 - 185pgh / Fluval 305 - 260gph

As you can see the Fluval 305 which is actually rated up to 70 gallons has more flow than the Eheim Pro 2026 rated to 100 gallons.

The contact between the water and media is much better in the eheim thus increasing bio-filtration. I believe this is based on not only reduced flow, but better contact. I don't know about the 2026, but the ecco is one big round basket on top of each other filled with biomedia not sponges. There is a sponge on top and bottom but inbetween it's all efhisubstrate. The Fluvals on the other hand have split baskets and the water is split between going over the biomedia and the big sponge they give you which is more for mechanical filtration than biological.



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Yup,

That is pretty much how I remembered what you explained to me a while ago, and it makes perfect sense to me.

To sum it up:

The duration of the exposure to the biological filter is more important than the number of times the water flows past it. And having then about 10 pounds of biofilter in the two filters should be enough to house as much bacteria as would be neede to clean out the Raritan river (insider joke in NJ, as it is really dirty, right NowherMan6?).

Ingo


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The Fluvals on the other hand have split baskets and the water is split between going over the biomedia and the big sponge they give you


Well this isn't exactly true. The water is forced through the sponges, then into the baskets. The water is never split between the two. If you wanted to fill all the trays with biomedia, you could. And all the water that is filtered would go through that media.

Personally, I don't beleive in extra "contact time" I believe in big baskets of biomedia and higher flow rates. Big baskets means more surface area and therefore more chances for bacteria to grow and be able to "catch" ammonia. Higher flow rates means more water is brought by the bacteria, and with more water comes more ammonia, again more chances for the bacteria to catch some ammonia. If the same water sits next to the bacteria, clean of waste, what good does that do?

I think eheims are good because they have big baskets, not because of reduced flow rates. That's aside from the fact that they just make a quality peice of equipment. I think the same filter would be better with more flow.

All this is within reason. I wouldn't recommend blowing your fish out of the water, obviously. I think the case is, more often than not, that there is too little flow going on in tanks.



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Double Post Matty

Well, I hear you as well, and blowing the fish out of the water was actually one of my concerns. That is how the slow flow rate discussion actually started a while back when tetratech tried to convince me that I need another filter.

I always meant to say this, but somehow always forgot, so here it goes. I also think that I have more waste in the tank because the filter intake is behind layers of plants and loads of stuff gets caught in the plants and never reaches the filter. What do you think about that theory (made just Ingo crazy talk)?

Ingo


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Well this isn't exactly true. The water is forced through the sponges, then into the baskets. The water is never split between the two. If you wanted to fill all the trays with biomedia, you could. And all the water that is filtered would go through that media.

Half of the chamber of the fluvals I know (unless the new ones are different) have a basket to hold media like carbon or ceramic (I believe the Fluvals come with noodles) and the other half has a vertical type alignment that does not hold loose or bagged media, but holds a big vertical sponge running the entire height of the chamber. This sponge is pretty much devoted to mechanical filtration (of course you'll get bio filtration too, but it certainly isn't as efficient as noodles or ceramic type media.) So the capacity for the filter to have as much bio filtration as the eheim is reduced simply by volume. I still beleive the contact time with the media increases bio filtration efficiency. Why would eheim work on reduced flow. They are the filter of choice in hardcore planted aquaria by probably 80% of enthusiasts. I have only 185 gph on my tank and my filter is going up 3 feet and I have the flow reduced further buy a uv on the return side.

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Why would eheim work on reduced flow.


I answered that in my post, the media trays are bigger than fluvals and whatnot. Surface area is part of the equation, along with flow. IMO(that's all just opinion) the more flow the more ammonia that is brought to the bacteria.

If contact time is all that's important, answer this: Why increase the flow rates on filters designed for larger tanks? based on the contact time theory, you'd just make a larger basket.

Half of the chamber of the fluvals I know (unless the new ones are different) have a basket to hold media like carbon or ceramic (I believe the Fluvals come with noodles) and the other half has a vertical type alignment that does not hold loose or bagged media, but holds a big vertical sponge running the entire height of the chamber.


It's not half and half. It's more like 1/3 mechanical to 2/3 baskets(and if you supe up the mech area it's a darn good filter). I'm still in agreement with you though, that out of the box eheim probably has better management of internal space, which I said in my previous post(or two posts ).

I also think that I have more waste in the tank because the filter intake is behind layers of plants and loads of stuff gets caught in the plants and never reaches the filter.

This is basically reduced flow. It sounds like a pretty sound theory to me . The real threat, however, is a dissolved particle that can't get caught in the plants, but can be slowed down if leaves clog the intake etc.



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Post InfoPosted 04-Sep-2006 03:41Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Matty,

This is part of a story from an aquariumfish.com article

"Canister filters, like undergravel filters, are excellent sites for biological filtration. Water travels at a relatively leisurely pace through the filter and is in prolonged contact with a large volume of filter material, which acts as a substrate for colonies of nitrifying bacteria. The greater the surface area available for the bacteria, the larger the potential bacteria population. The longer the water is in contact with the filter medium, within reason of course, the greater the potential efficiency of the nitrification process. Thus, a large-volume canister filter with a relatively low flow rate provides a superb set of conditions for the two-step conversion of ammonia to nitrate. A good rule of thumb for filter flow rates is no more than four or five tank volumes per hour."

Here's another one from a scientific site


"The longer the better"

"Broadly speaking, the effectiveness of biological filtration is improved the longer the 'polluted' water is held in the filter - i.e. the longer the retention time. The most time-consuming process in filtration is the breakdown of dissolved organic carbon compounds into simple inorganic compounds. These compounds are ultimately incorporated back into living organisms. This complex chain of processes is not instantaneous and will, even under ideal circumstances, take some time."


The above is pretty much my argument. The Eheims not ony have the reduce flow but the water goes right through all the media baskets while the fluvals have the split side and some of the water by-passes the bio media. The increased flows in bigger tanks are more a factor of mechanical filtration than bio, although I beleive there are still flow requirments to move things along.


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A good rule of thumb for filter flow rates is no more than four or five tank volumes per hour

Which eheims don't come close to.

This complex chain of processes is not instantaneous and will, even under ideal circumstances, take some time.


Well I read this article, which has a lot of calculations, and I went ahead and tried one out. The author says we are aiming for 15 minutes(.25hr) of "contact time" for clean water.

This is the equation: filter retention time = filter size/pump rate

So in the case of the eheim pro 2026 with a volume of 1.3G and a flow rate of 251g/h, the equation goes like this:

Contact time = (1.3g)/(251g/h)
Contact time = .00517hours or 19 seconds

My findings show that for proper contact time this guy is asking for either a same size canister with a flow rate of 5.2gph(1.3/5.2 = .25), or a 63 gallon filter(63/251 = .25) with the same flow rate. Souns pretty logical.



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Post InfoPosted 04-Sep-2006 06:56Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by coop
I was asking about their size because i have 2, 2inch females and a 3 inch male. My male looks like yours sorta but its got more orange on the chest and a round dorsal
The dorsal fin not being pointed has got me confused.
maybe its just genetics.
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Which eheims don't come close to.

A good rule of thumb for filter flow rates is no more than four or five tank volumes per hour

Matty, I think you missed the operate word:
"no more than"

Contact time = (1.3g)/(251g/h)
Contact time = .00517hours or 19 seconds
My findings show that for proper contact time this guy is asking for either a same size canister with a flow rate of 5.2gph(1.3/5.2 = .25), or a 63 gallon filter(63/251

Here I picture Mattyboombatty, going into a backroom of his fishstore marked "Beyond Fishkeeping" and doing all kinds of strange and unusual experiments.

Your obviously as stubborn as me

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coop - Whatever happened to your initial question? Did you delete it? If so, why? Yeah, I was wondering when my male's chest will turn orange more than it is, I also have seen them much brighter than this before. He is not fully grown yet though, maybe that is why.

Matty - I may have some issues with your source for the specs on the filter flowrate and volume, but they are minor. And I agree that 15 minutes of contact time sound "a little long" (where does this value come from anyway). But here is food for thought:

If the contact time is derived from media volume divided by flowrate, then wouldn't a slower flow rate increase that contact time (as you state as well when saying one would have to slow down the filter to about 5gph)? And isn't that what tetratech implied, a slower rate increases contact?

I think we are spinning around in a circle as basically we all agree on something, but can't quite put the finger on it. Ah, now I know: Having a second filter is a good idea

Ingo


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tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Doesn't anyone sleep around here

Ah, now I know: Having a second filter is a good idea

And best of all it's an EHEIM!


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Yeah Baby, an Eheim
Doesn't anyone sleep around here
I am known to be an early riser, but I have to say that I was about to ask you a question like that. I guess you don't need that much sleep anymore with your old age .

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Matty - I may have some issues with your source for the specs on the filter flowrate and volume

I got them here if they are wrong, I can do the equations with the correct specs if someone has them.

(where does this value come from anyway)


This is tetratechs article. It's about pond stuff, but really I think it's an article on a guy who has done waste management. I've heard a lot of this from a friend who is in engineering who took courses on waste water treatment. It's for seriously polluted water, which nobody should have in their fish tank. Oh read the whole thing, cause at the bottom it tells you how important flow rate is.

And isn't that what tetratech implied, a slower rate increases contact?

Yes, but I'm trying to show you what a proper contact time is, how to get it, and how very far away from it any of our filters are(even the "best" ones). Therefore, this can't be as important as we thought if we've gotten by on severely reduced contact time for all these years.

I'm going to take this statement:

A good rule of thumb for filter flow rates is no more than four or five tank volumes per hour


and this one(again from tetratechs article):

the pond flow rate is dependent on the total ammonia produced within the system, With higher stocking densities there has to be a corresponding increase in flow rate.


and mix them together. The first statement says we can't go above 4-5 times turnover rate. The second says, the more flow through the filter the more ammonia you are going to be able to reduce. So here it is: "The more flow provided by your filter, up to 4-5 x turnover per hour, the more ammonia your filter can reduce." Also, if you are willing to believe it, your contact time needs to be 15 minutes.

So lets make up a dream filter, one that this fish doc prescribes. For LF's 125g tank: 4x turnover seems ideal. That's 500gph. And 15 min for contact time. X = filter size.

.25hr = Xg/500g/hr
Xg = .25hr*500g/hr
Filter size = (you guessed it ) a 125g tank.

So LF, to get rid of your ammonia and your algae problem, you need to drill your tank and get a 125g sump. Simply getting another eheim won't cut it.

I still want to compare contact times between two of our filters, but at this point I'm just being silly I guess and taking up too much of Ingo's thread, so I'll quit being stubborn, and agree that Ingo needs another filter(albeit a 125g one).

On a side note, I do have about a 30g filter on my 30g sw tank which, from the return pump probably gets 4-5 x turnover rate. Maybe that's why I have a stable system there.



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Post InfoPosted 04-Sep-2006 17:30Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Matty,
I respect your knowledge for aquaria immensely, but the bottom line is reduced flow increases contact with bio-filtration along with the way the water passes through the media. There is less bi-pass with an eheim compared to the fluvals I've always know.

A good rule of thumb for filter flow rates is no more than four or five tank volumes per hour

Your ready this in reverse. What it's saying is it shouldn't be "more than" 4 to 5 times, not that 4 to 5 times is what to shoot for. Are you sure we are on the same page. I'm talking about bio-filtration. Mabye if you have large fish you need more flow to get more solid waster out of the tank and into the sponges and pads.

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Post InfoPosted 04-Sep-2006 20:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I'm just trying to show you my side of the arguement. I've read your posts and sources and tried to make valid points. You were, but your last post is just "I'm right and you're wrong" so we'll quit there. I don't want to get people upset over a technical disagreement and I don't want to kill Ingo's thread after so many pages . You know how to take care of your tanks better than most(probably including me) and all that matters is your fish and plants are happy which they are. Honestly, there's more than one way to skin two birds with one stone. Or is it don't count your chickens in a glass house? I can't remember. Anywho, good day to ya.

EDIT: Oh, and my last post was mostly sarcastic, I realize that in all reality another filter will probably help LF out, and a 125 sump is silly business.



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Post InfoPosted 04-Sep-2006 21:52Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Aaaannnyyyyway,

What's the matter with you guys. Don't you dare to start a war here .

Yes, you two have different opinions, and I believe that is ok. Well, of course that leaves me in the middle

Big Al f*ed up, somehow my order did not seem to have gone through as I see it still sitting in the online site (which is messed up like hell these days, at least the whole order part of it - including order history). I had to order over phone as I had a gift certificate and these cannot be redeemed online

And all day there was nobody to answer the phone there, even the voice that comes on was cut off in the beginning, starting like "Online is not available ..." Why was "Big Al's" cut off? Did they fold? The site didn't say they were closed today, it says the only day off is July, 4th.

So, and now I want entries from both of you supporting me in the rant about Big Al's

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 05-Sep-2006 01:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I don't know Big Al's, can't use Big Al's (being in a different country 'n all) , but I will support you in your rant.

Big Al's you should not have mucked up LF's order & your "on-line" should be available, you should have answered his phone call & you should have been open, because it was not 4th July.

There, will that do LF?

Cheers
TW
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Man am I glad I go down the shore on weekends, that way I miss all this drama...

LF, even though they say they're open every day but 4th of July, I can see them being closed today, it is Labor day afterall...


Back in the saddle!
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You were, but your last post is just "I'm right and you're wrong" so we'll quit there. I don't want to get people upset over a technical disagreement and I don't want to kill Ingo's thread

Matty, sorry I didn't mean to come across that way. Every opinion means something and my responses are definitely not 100% fact, although "I" believe in them.

I thought I ended it with a joke a couple of posts back. Anyway, let's move on.

LF,
Don't worry BigAls isn't folding. They are a very big company and have plenty of brick-n-mortar stores in Cananda and recently opened an 18,00 sq.ft. store in Florida. I think they "upgraded" to a new system and are getting the bugs out.





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*shakes fish at big al's*



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All Right Folks,

That's much better

Yeah, I didn't think they would fold, but somehow the phone message was cut off to not include the beginning, alas "Big Al's".

Anyway, this means most likely that I don't have the new filter, and the new light for the 29 (bulb), and the new light fixture for the 20, and all kinds of other small stuff by this weekend.

Do we have an extra week to "discuss" flow and such



Ingo


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So I called up Big Al's this morning.

After over 10 minutes they told me that the order was in this status because the Coralife fixture was out of stock. It had arrived Friday night though and now they can send it.



Doesn't sound right though, as "Item Out of Stock" is not quite the same as "Awaiting Payment"

Anyway, it is supposed to be sent out today,

Ingo


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After over 10 minutes they told me that the order was in this status because the Coralife fixture was out of stock. It had arrived Friday night though and now they can send it.


Lf, just curious, I guess cause you were ordering other things etc and points is that why you ordered the fixture from bigals as opposed to hellolights.

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Lf, just curious, I guess cause you were ordering other things etc and points is that why you ordered the fixture from bigals as opposed to hellolights.
I went to both websites and found the price to be almost equal. And yes, I ordered way more stuff (but they don't sell Tiffany items ). And shipping is less, in particular because I had to order stuff from Big Al's as well.

Hello Lights is good when you get a great deal on a secondary light, but I am not so convinced that their "no name" brand is as good as the Coralife Brand, and that one is also pretty much the same price as Big Al's.

Ingo


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Just a quick photo before I go to bed.

Here are some of the fish during feeding. What appears to be loads of flake food pieces floating in the water are actually CO2 bubbles expelled from my small power head off the picture to the left. The food is flakes floating on the surface.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Feeding Time



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OK,

So my order came in yesterday and all items have been delivered. Including a 5L bottle of Tropica Master Grow

When I was ordering my stuff I decided to peruse their new Tropica stuff which should have been available at that time. But what did I see there? My favorite micro mix. As I had to order over the phone anyway, I asked why it was available again. I was informed that they received 10 bottles from their store and then it would be over with it. Let's see how long it will be up on the site.

So, now the question is: What do I do with the 2L bottle of Flourish? Will it still be good when I am done with the 5L TMG?

Ingo


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So, now the question is: What do I do with the 2L bottle of Flourish? Will it still be good when I am done with the 5L TMG?
A while back I was talking with the Seachem rep. and he said that the stuff shouldn't go bad. The reason I was wondering as well is because we picked up a couple of the 4L's. You might want to stick it in the frig though.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Sep-2006 13:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wings,

Thanks a lot man, makes me more comfortable to have this stuff collecting dust.

The fridge is no option though, for the sake of the wife and the kids. Looks too much like juice.

Thanks,

Ingo


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Thanks a lot man
No problem!

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Post InfoPosted 11-Sep-2006 02:44Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 50

Having been at work all of yesterday the water change had to wait until today. Given that a day has limited hours and that I had stuff to add to all of my 4 tanks (check them out please, as it seems I am the only one recently to add anything to my 20 and 29 log), I only had time to do one major thing to this tank, and here it is:



On the table are the parts of the new Eheim 2026 and a new stealth heater for the right corner.

Attached Image:

New Stuff



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Here is a tank shot from last weekend to show the tank before the changes. As you can see, the Alternanthera on the left back of the Star Grass group had grown very tall and would have required a trimming anyway, but the new current made it really needed as it bent almost 90 degrees.

Attached Image:

Week 49



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And here is the tank now this weekend, after the new filter had been added. It is on the right side, with the spray bar arranged horizontally on the top of the side panel.

For the time being I left both filters on full blast and I will see what effect this has on the fishies.

Attached Image:

Now



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And I have only one more shot for this weekend, there was just not enough time to take more.

Here are some Rainbows hanging out in the new current. It seemed as if all fish were busy finding new spots to hang as the whole water flow dynamics in the tank have changed. For example, just look at how strong the Java Fern in the full tank shot is bent compared to the week before.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Rainbows



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Other than the java fern, the rest of the plants don't seem affected by the flow, I see straight standing stems everywhere. Those are some nice looking rainbows, I hope I can get mine to grow up that healthy.



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Thanks Matty for the compliments on the rainbows

"I see straight standing stems everywhere" - Well, that is because all weaklings, aka stems, are short based on the trimming last weekend. There was a tall Alternanthera in the middle of the tank that really bent over. And during my lst trip down to the tanks last night I had the first Star Grass stem floating around the tank.

Ingo


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Almost a week has gone by since my last entry in this log, and almost as long has gone by since my last entry at FP overall.

Part of it is based on enourmous overtime hours at work, but part of it is tank related.

The closer the one year anniversary of this tank (and as such tetratech's tank as well) the more it is on my mind that for an entire year I was fighting algae. And I am sick of it.

Ingo


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I here ye! Is that really you LF?

Don't think things are always so blissful in tetratech land. I had a "gigantic" mishap in my nano tank.

Log soon to be updated.



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Wow both LF and Tetra are alive! I thought you guys were gonners being it has been dead up in here!

LF,
Don't be so down on yourself about your tank. You have had some set backs but we all have. The real question is: have you learned anything about plant/fish keeping in the last year. If so can you use it to become better next year?

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it is on my mind that for an entire year I was fighting algae. And I am sick of it.


Just reading that stirs up memories. Ahhh the frustration.

I don't know if they are still around, but if you could dig up my posts from two years ago, you could see I was having the same problem. It wasn't as high tech(2wpg, DIY co2, decent fert sched.), but I had algae, and I had taken all the necessary procedures to keep plants growing ahead of the algae, but could never totally wipe it out, and it got to be a mess.

I ended up nuking the tank. If you read the first page or two of the log it was about how I had started over basically keeping only the filter for it's beneficial bacteria. I changed the gravel and bleached out the tank and heater, and parts of the filter that are physically in the water that had algae on it. I kept the fish too.

I don't like to suggest nukes, espessialy in large tanks when they cost so much and take so much time. There's always the potential that they won't work and the algae comes right back. I just think that getting rid of algae is so much harder than just never having it, and keeping it that way. If it were me and the new filter doesn't help and I felt as if I tried everything else, I'd think about it. Either that or toss everything that has algae and only keep the plants that don't have it. Keep the clean parts of the stems and what not. With rosettes you can hack off all the leaves, keep the base and it should grow back ok. Replace everything with fast growing plants and the leftovers.

To me, your tank looks great. It's not nearly as bad as mine was when I nuked it. I'd probably feel that I could get a handle on it if I could pay it enough attention, which it seems is very hard for you to do right now. Maybe you'll want to just wait on it until you get some time. You might be able to kick it.



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Post InfoPosted 17-Sep-2006 06:56Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,

Don't get down, These things happen to very seasoned aquarist. People that have been doing this for a very long time. Although your already a "Master of Something" you really haven't been doing this that long.

I kinda agree with Matty. I think you need a fresh start. I would work on getting your smaller tanks the way you want them and maybe not worry so much about the plants and scaping in the big tank. How about you just reduce light to the one set and take out most of the plants. Take out the wood and clean it off, etc. Put in a few large sword plants scattered about maybe with some rocks here and there.

The smaller tanks are easier to correct if an issue develops, etc. and then when your ready move back to scaping the 125g. Have a look in mind and stick to it.
Don't think these beautiful tanks you see on line don't have issues, they do. Your looking at many time a very professional pic and it doesn't mean they didn't just top off the substrate, replace the sand, clean the wood, etc. for the purpose of taking a picture.

The new filter will help keep the tank cleaner and will be there when your ready. I also think your work schedule makes it difficult to catch things earlier. I'm home alot and am constantly viewing my tank seeing if anything is amiss. I think Bensaf stated it really well, when he said "It's a lifestyle" it really is to a certain extent. I feel I have a deeper understanding of how my tank functions and what triggers what because I do have the time to examine it, probably more than you do.

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Post InfoPosted 17-Sep-2006 16:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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it is on my mind that for an entire year I was fighting algae. And I am sick of it.


Hey Ingo,

That statement sounds very familiar. I don't think I've had my own tank algae free since the first month after I started it up and it has been very frustrating at times. I keep an eye on all the plant forum threads and to see the success of Tetratech and Bernard, to name a few, can make the annoyance at observing the algae in my own tank nearly get out of control. It is one of the reasons why I haven't really posted in my own log over the last few months.

I think they're right when they say that it's a lifestyle. Where you should keep track of what happens in the tank nearly all the time. For me that doesn't quite work, and in the last few months I've slowly come to accept that I'll probably will always have some of the green (grey: beard algae, I still hate it) stuff in the tank. I'm slowly adjusting my plants to work around the problem. Slow growers such as Anubias, just will not work in my tank, as the older leafs will eventually end up being overgrown with the stuff.

Maybe at some point I'll figure out what I'll have to change in order to get rid of the algae, but I no longer will worry about it too much. even with the algae I enjoy the look of the tank, and with that, the hobby. Try to take a step back, take it a little easier, and don't worry about a little bit of extra green. Your tank(s) look great, enjoy them as they are!

Best wishes,
Martin

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To all of you,

Thank you so much for your support, I really appreciate it. I am just a very tired hobbyist right now, work in the last two weeks for sure has taken its toll on me. I had to let the ferts slide as I occasionally was at home for only 6 hours total, including sleep.

I am still working on getting myself back in shape, doing a water change yesterday almost fell victim to my desire to just chill.

I will spend some time on reading your entries and I promise that I will have more to say about the details you wrote, but for today an update to this tank and the 40 will have to do.

So -

Weekly Tank Update - Week 51

The extra filtration for sure has made a change. First it was rather frustrating to see what happened, but then it made sense. An enourmous increase in hair algae really brought me down. But then I understood that I must have stirred up quite a bit of gunk with the increased water flow so it made sense that this happened. Growth seems to have been well, at least.

I did trim about 60% of my Anubias leaves off, they were full of hair algae or BBA, otherwise I didn't do too much, except trimming a few bunches of Pearl Grass.

Here is the tank last week:

Attached Image:

Week 50



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Post InfoPosted 17-Sep-2006 20:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Oh, the only other thing about the tank is that one of my Rainbows isn't doing too well and I think he will go to fish-heaven in a few days. He is breathing really hard and rather skinny and not swimming with the group, aka a goner. He is the one that had a piece of his dorsal fin missing when I got him, I believe it was bitten off.

Anyway, here is the tank now:

Attached Image:

Now



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LF,

Sorry to hear about your rainbow. I had really bad luck with mine. I think it was something internal because I didn't see anything and they just started dropping. I am now left with one and it can hang out in my 29G for the rest of its life unless I find a good home for her.

As for your tank and plants. Maybe the best thing is to slow down and really think about what you want in this tank. It seems you have a liking for slow grower like crypts, ferns, and anubias. Maybe go to something more like keiths tank that is a bit more low tech. As stated by tetra, a vision and plan is a good first step. A good second step is sticking too it.

With the low techness of the larger tank will give you more options with your high tech 40G. Plus the 40G will be easier to work with because its much smaller. A 125 is a lot of tank if you have little time to play with it.





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Post InfoPosted 18-Sep-2006 14:25Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Firstly, if you look at the whole picture (I mean the whole tank) it's lookinging beautiful. Sure, if you go in close, you'll see the algae if you're looking for it - but we the audience don't see it. Maybe like Dr Bonke, we all have to accept some algae here & there.

I'm sorry about your sick rainbow. With my recent run of bad luck, it's always been a bad sign when fish are panting. The only time I've ever been able to turn it around, once they start panting, is when it's been a C02 issue.

Hope your work settles down, 'cause it sounds like you're missing out on the joys of your family and your fish right now. Sounds like work need to put on some more staff to help you out. You're in the same profession as my son BTW (just a bit of non fish trivia )

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 00:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
Perhaps a bit late, just a thought...
I think I'd like to see the center driftwood moved
back behind some of the plants so the wood was
further back and more plants were in front of it.
That would enhance the "depth" of the tank without
needing any kind of background. Right now the DW grabs
the eye, and it is right up front.
Just something to think about....

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 01:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tanks my friends,

Just one more day of stress at work, then things should cool off at least a little (for a while at least).

Wings - the thought off turning this tank into a low tech tank has come across my mind quite a few times by now, but there are always some plants that I would like to keep tat require a little more light and stuff.

Robyn - Hey, can you send your son over here? I may have a position for him

Frank - right on with the driftwood. The problem right now is that all this wood is one piece and actually spans the whole area from back to front, with most branches exiting further to the front. That is one of the problems, as changing this would mean to remove the wood and separate the branches, and with that I started a big change as now various other things would have to "move" in order to accomondate the new design. And before I know it, I would be in the middle of an overhaul "Ingo Style". And that scares me a little.

Hang in there, my friends, I will be back to being the normal self rather sooner than later.

Thanks for your patience,

Ingo


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Hang in there, my friends, I will be back to being the normal self rather sooner than later.
Its about time! This site has been a little dead with out you! That means I have to do my homework to pass my classes!

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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 14:04Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Good to hear you sounding more positive & that hopefully your work will settle down soon.
Robyn - Hey, can you send your son over here? I may have a position for him
He works for a Canadian firm & soon will qualify to apply for overseas posting - mum will miss him. They already sent him to China last December (but only for 10 days). Here's another bit of non fish trivia - hubby works for a German company - so there's 2 non fish connections.

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi Ingo,
Thank you, for the reply and response. Yes, it would
definitely be a chore and a labor of love to tear into the
tank like that. Just something to think about over a
quiet moment and a cup of nice hot coffee.

Yesterday was the 3rd day of what we call a "mini"
vacation. Susan and I have five weeks of vacation a year,
and we take them by adding two days to our Sun/Mon
weekends. Yesterday when we got home from Susan's dialysis
and a Dr's appointment, we'd just gotten settled in when
a tenant slammed into the access gate with her car. Back
to work with my digital camera, and as I was filling out
the Incident Report, I noticed inconsistencies and called
the police. She was in her late 40s, driving on a learners
permit with no supervision, and had no Proof of Insurance
with her. The officer ticketed her for both infractions,
gave me a "CR Number" for my report and told the tenant not
to drive the vehicle. The officer drove around the property
and parked and watched. The tenant got into her car and
drove off the property. As soon as she got onto the road,
the officer turned the lights on, and went out right behind
her...Ticket number three!
We all have stressful times at work, working on vacation
can be one of them, but sometimes circumstances, brighten
those times...

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 17:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Frank!

Don't people amaze you? Every day is something new.

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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 14:44Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi Wings,
Yup that is so true. We've been doing this for over 13
years now, I've reached the point where if the tenant gives
me a new excuse for not paying on time, I'll waive the late
fee. I haven't waived one in over 7 years.

One guy had his mother dying and him attending the
funeral 7 times.
I finally asked him just how many mothers he'd had.
between (alligator) tears he asked "what do you mean?"
I told him that he'd told us that his mother had died
7 times now over the past three years. The phone hung up
and he's been on time for the past three.

Ah well...Back to plants...

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 16:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks folks for the entries

Well, not much to reports, except that work occupied me till yesterday, and that I needed all day today to recover from a massive drinking party we had last night to celebrate the completion of our work (but the next load is waiting already).

On the tank side, I think I got lucky on something for once. My last order to Big Al's included the TMG container, and this week I needed it for the first time as I ran out of my original stock. What can I say, they didn't send me TMG, but the new Tropica Plant Nutrition Liquid. I saved $20 as I paid for TMG.

The Tropica site says to dose 5ml for 50L of tank water weekly. That means for my tank (about 470L) approximately 50ml per week, much less than what I dosed in TMG (3x50ml per week). What should I do? Add what I did before or cut back to Tropica's recommendation?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 23:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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If they seem to think it's more potent I'd beleive them. You could always give them an email or something though.



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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 23:33Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well, not much to reports, except that work occupied me till yesterday, and that I needed all day today to recover from a massive drinking party

So bascially your posting under the influence

Well in addition to the lights I ordered from hellolights I'm going to be placing an order tonite for plain old Flourish, I'm just about out. I was tempted to switch to TMG but I think I'll stick.

My Scapes
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So bascially your posting under the influence
I think I am over it now, but this morning I was still in bad shape

The TMG days are over now anyway as only the new Tropica products are being offered. I will keep you guys posted on how it will work out although, I can only get better for me .

With regards to the dosage. I assume that EI also means to overdose the micros a little, right? At least when compared to dosage recommendations by the manufacturer.

Ingo


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I think I am over it now, but this morning I was still in bad shape


Well I've been burning the midnight oil as well, saying up almost all nite (maybe 2.5 hrs a sleep) each nite for two nites trying to keep a deadline on a project. I was starting to really lose it.

Anyway, as far as EI and micros I always took the word "EI" literally which means it's estimative and you could miss your target low or high and you woun't have issues as long as everything else is in place.



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Thanks tetratech for the heads up on the micros in the EI world. I guess I will start off with about 20ml 3 times a week, that is slightly higher than the Tropica suggestion but not by much. 20ml is the TMG that I fed the 40G 3 times per week, maybe it was too much (50ml 3xweek for the 125G) and that caused my algae? Time will tell.

Yeah, living on little sleep is wearing one down, in particular when one is as old as we are . I hope you got your work done now though, time to relax again

Ingo


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Yeah, living on little sleep is wearing one down, in particular when one is as old as we are . I hope you got your work done now though, time to relax again

Thanks, I could get back to a normal existence until the middle of next week anyway.



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Weekly Update - Week 52

And more so -> Annual Update - Year 1

It is now one year to the day that this tank was set up. Time flies when you are heaving fun, or when you have to fight one algae outbreak after the other. Lots of stuff has happened to this tank and not all was bad, I for sure learned a lot about plants and their requirements, plus I had the pleasure to enjoy myself on all the fishies that are swimming in this tank.

Albeit this tank is not exactly where I thought it would be after one year, it has come a long way. When I started this log I stated in the Goal section: The focus of this tank is neither to win an aquascaping contest nor to win a fish contest. Well, in the end I came much closer to the second part as my Espei breeding success earned me a spot in TFH, next to Amano. This is the single most accomplishment that this tank has brought me, overall not too shabby for someone with less than 2 years in the hobby.

On to a review of the first year, here is the tank on the day of setup, before water and plants had been added. The rocks make me wonder if I should add them again as they did look pretty nice:

Attached Image:

Initial Setup



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And here is the tank right after setup,which took about 7 hours, if I remember that right. I then found to have quite a lot of plants in there, but looking at it now makes it feel soooo empty:

Attached Image:

Week 0



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3 weeks later, and with the addition of some fast growers, the tank became much fuller and growth was good. I have to say that I like the pennywort in this shot and I am constantly tempted to add some more of this plant into my tank now.

Attached Image:

Week 3



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By week 6 the first attempts of creating a scape were on its way, and looking at it now it was not all that bad. Rock Valley had probably its best days during that time, sags, tenellus, and glosso all grew well, although I was fighting diatoms like mad.

Attached Image:

Week 6



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By week 9 loads of plants have been moved around in the tank and this must have been the time when changes to a scape "Ingo-Style" became associated with complete removal of plants and what not. One can also see that this was around the time when I completely lost sight of what to do with the scape. All is random and messy:

Attached Image:

Week 9



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By week 11 things have changed even further, but that is not what I want to point out here. In this shot one can see for the first time that my school of 12 Espei had grown, this must be more than 12 in the right hand section of the tank.

Attached Image:

Week 11



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At week 15, the tank started to really look like a jungle as the Apons and the Crypt Retrospiralis grew out of control, with the latter eventually reaching 30 plus inches. Also, the glosso in the foreground became unmanageable being 3 to 5 layers deep in some spots.

Attached Image:

Week 15



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By week 18, nothing was in shape anymore. Not knowing how to trim most of my plants properly and the urge to protect the ever increasing number of Espei fry, I let it all grow out way too much. Plants shaded each other and I lost quite a few because they did not receive proper lighting anymore.

Attached Image:

Week 18



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The following week, week 19, had another major overhaul, the addition of the wood. I am sure that this was the beginning of the algae battle that I fight still today. Looking at this shot I realize that I had almost no plant mass left in the tank.

Attached Image:

Week 19



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
With the Star Grass being the only fast grower in the tank around week 23, the rest of the plants succumbed to hair algae and the tall sags and crypt did not like being moved around all the time (plus my wrongly applied bleach bath during the move). The tank was on its way to a disaster during this shot.

Attached Image:



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And so it came, at week 25 another major overhaul happened, reducing the plant mass even further. I have no idea what I was thinking; I must have been really desperate to get all the algae out of the tank at once.

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Week 25



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
By week 30, I added a few additional fast growers (hygro) and greatly increased the mass of Star Grass just to avoid another algae disaster. Nevertheless, it didn't help too much, in shifts hair algae and BBA became frequent guests in this tank and that is still true today.

Attached Image:

Week 30



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Here is a shot from week 36. You can see that I gave my fast growers as much space as I could to help me control my tank parameters, but to no avail. New plants have been added to replace infested old ones, just to be infested themselves.

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Week 36



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For weeks in and out, like here in week 41, all I did was trying to regulate plant growth and trying to keep the algae in check. This was (and is) the most un-enjoyable phase since setup as all is geared towards control rather than moving forward.

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Week 41



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Post InfoPosted 24-Sep-2006 13:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is a picture from week 47, and you can see that not much has changed. All of the last 20 plus weeks I spent on control and I have to tell you that it bores me to death. I am sure you folks must feel similar as you had to listen to my whining for the entire time.

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Week 47



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LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
And here is now the latest full tank shot from this weekend. As you may see, some plants in the right front have changed; actually have been exchanged with the 40G. Some Blyxa and Pearl Grass went over to the other tank and in return some micro swords have been planted in here.

On a downside, I put the Rainbow that was weak under as I did not want to risk any infestation of the tank. But I don't know what the problem was.

Attached Image:



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
MAKE SURE YOU CHECK OUT THE FULL YEAR REVIEW ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE

So,

With this series I would like to express my gratitude to anybody who ever contributed in this thread, one would not be able to imagine how this tank would look like now without all the help I got from you folks.

Thanks to all of you,

Ingo


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On to two more detail shot from the tank from this weekend. Here is the new micro sword section shown next to the wisteria lane. I wonder if it would do well in this kind of substrate. If so then it may be a much better ground cover plant in this tank than it was in the 40G where it was much too tall.

Attached Image:

New Swords



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And here is the male Apisto inspecting the new lawn to see if I may have brought in any goodies with it. If you look carefully then you will be able to spot a few types of algae on various sections of this shot, but I don't want to get into that topic now, this weekend is the anniversary and it will be a happy one (right? ).

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Apisto in Swords



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TW
 
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Congratulations on the 1 Year anniversary. /:'

Cheers
TW
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mattyboombatty
 
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Well I have to say that my favorite pic is week 15. IMO that's a stunning planted tank. Congrats on the 1 year. I remember that I celebrated mine on the 38 by starting to forget about it and eventually tearing it down. I hope the same doesn't happen to yours.



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Post InfoPosted 24-Sep-2006 14:51Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi Ingo,
You know, I'd like to see all of us do a annual recap of
our tank pictures as you did. It really brings home how
much a living tank grows and changes over time.

Thanks!

Frank

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Post InfoPosted 24-Sep-2006 17:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Nice recap. I would have to agree with Matty, that week 15 maybe 18 was the most attractive looking from the pics anyway, but the tank was in need of some DW which we all know you eventually got.

One thing not discussed much is the frequency of trimming. How does that affect uptake of ferts and the ability of algae to be kept away. Some times I think the frequency of trimming is more important than actual mass, because the plants seem to increase their growth from triming. I truly thing the words "It's a lifestyle" quoted by the "Master" is the expression of the year here at Planted Aquaria. I think if you had more time LF, you might have had less issues. But these are just my thoughts, I could be way off base.

If you are going to start over, when I look at the first setup pics I could kinda see a grassy field amongst those rocks and maybe the return of the glosso to the front. But I would only suggest that if you have the ability to live the "lifestyle"



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Thanks all for the input,

I agree, week 15 and 18 looked very nice, in pictures

But the reality was that at that stage the Apons and the Crypt Retrospiralis started to shade out the tank so much that over half of the Ludwigia group to the right died off because it didn't get any light anymore. And the moss was out of control with algae and trimming created a huge amount of free floating pieces that I still find in the tank today. The glosso was a mess and would have required almost weekly trimming.

So, even then the tank was not stable.

Coming to think of having more time for the tank in order to live the lifestyle: I don't know if that would work for me, I would mess with it every day I guess. I just cannot keep my hands out.

Anyway, Tetratech - your tank is today one year old as well, maybe you should follow suit and show us an annual review as well

Ingo


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tetratech
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Anyway, Tetratech - your tank is today one year old as well, maybe you should follow suit and show us an annual review as well

Did we start on the same exact day. I can't even remember. I know the dates are all screwed up in the thread, but I was thinking of just letting you have the day....

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tetratech - I share all my days since one year with you, and I have no problem sharing this one as well

Yeah, I think we started at exactly the same day, with different end results though

Ingo


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Congrats on one year with this tank. Keep up the good work. I think the tank looks very nice as always.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums
Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 01:49Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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tetratech - I share all my days since one year with you, and I have no problem sharing this one as well

Thanks LF. It might have to wait till tomorrow because I'm having serious issues with my &*$% laptop and I might have to transfer all my pics to another computer, but I do have fresh pics of my nano (check log) and I'm about to post a new 12g pic as well.



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LF,

Isn't is crazy how much our tanks can change in the course of a year. A while back I was looking at some of my old tank shots and couldn't beleive that I was happy with it. (I might have had 10 plants in there total!) Now today it is getting closer the the LF jungle style - the algae and maybe I have just been lucky that it hasn't taken over as I am now running 6.5WPG.

Thanks for all the post with weekly/now yearly updates. It has been great to follow and learn from.

PS. I really like the chain swords up front. I think you need something low like that to add depth.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 14:34Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks guys for the comments

Yeah, the chains looked nice in the front for a while, I agree. But then they started to spread out to the back, the front ones got covered with some form of thread algae, they also got so dense that they shaded each other and created a lot of dead leaves in the process, overall - it got messy.

And currently, the few remaining chains are barely hanging in, sometimes they seem to die all together, for no reason that I would know off.

Ingo


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NowherMan6
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Congrats on one year LF

I came into this log a little late, a few weeks into it I believe, when you tetra and bensaf were like the Three Stooges on the board. My appreciation for planted tanks has taken off since then, and I really believe it started with this log, so I thank you for that /:'


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Oh thanks NowherMan6

Yeah, I remember the 3 Stooges, and then we moved on to the Brady Bunch as we became a larger family. I wonder what organization level we have reached now.

Ingo


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tetratech
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Yeah, I remember the 3 Stooges, and then we moved on to the Brady Bunch as we became a larger family. I wonder what organization level we have reached now.
The 3 stooges People in "glass cages" shouldn't throw stones.

Anyway, it's interesting that this site is open to pretty much everyone in the world and the regulars are 2 jersey guys, 2 new yorkers and a gal from downunder

My Scapes
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Dr. Bonke
 
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Odd, I somehow totally missed the previous page with the full year recap. It's actully quite a good idea, I may consider doing something like that too In any case, congratulations on the full year anniversary. Even with all the algae trouble, in my opinion you have one of the most beautiful tanks on these forums, well worth the effort it takes to maintain
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bensaf
 
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Congratulations on the one year mark. To your credit , despite the issues you had, you kept ploughing at it and even increased the number of tanks.

Unfortunately, for reasons you are aware of, I haven't been able to participate much recently. But I do try to keep up to date with various logs. Still interesting after a year and so many posts


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 03:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Oooohhh Bensaf,

It has been a long time since you last posted to my log, did the 3 Stooges comment get you out of hiding or was it the anniversary?

I hope all is well with you, my friend

And thanks for the compliments on me not caving in, I appreciate it.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 15:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I hope all is well with you, my friend


Everything swell, just been awesomely busy. Basically I'll be unemployed after this week so I'll have a bit more time for writing. Although I will be busy preparing to pack up.I'll definately be moving on at the end of Oct., it's just a matter of to where.It looks like I'll be returning to Ireland.

Of course in our world packing up means tearing down all the tanks I'll have to find good homes for the fish and plants.

Chances are I'll be out of the hobby for quite some time. I'm wondering if the pull will be there to start up from scratch again ?


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 03:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi Ben,
I'm saddened to read of the employment issue and the need
to move. I wish you and your wife luck, fair winds and
following seas. I hope that you will find time to write
now and then.
Sincerely,
Frank


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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 07:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Boah,

That is tough stuff there, Bensaf. I don't think we are ready to loose you to the inactive side of the hobby. Instead you should see this as an opportunity to start a brand new tank and with it a LOG here at FP (just trying, I know it is lame).

Hang in there,

Ingo


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Wingsdlc
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Best wishes Ben! You could always go the the Tetratech micro mini tank thing. You have been great help to many of us!

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NowherMan6
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Best of luck, Bensaf. Godspeed to you as well in your new endeavors.

I certainly hope your time out of the hobby isn't too long, and I certainly hope we'll all be here to welcome you back when you return

Just don't get rid of that beautiful rimless tank you have, there's a certain pull to those things that will get you back into it as soon as your able.

Thanks again for the help and words over the past year.


Back in the saddle!
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tetratech
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Bensaf,
This is the first I've heard of these issues. I'm sure it will all balance out nicely just like your scapes. We'd love to have you in the states, any chance of that happening? In all honestly, I'm not sure if I would have my tank today if it wasn't for your voice of reason coupled with a kin since of humor. We miss your input around here, but I'm quite confident I will see one of your scapes grace the forum in the not too distant future.


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 15:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
LF, I forgot to say how much I enjoyed your annual recap.
You know, I'd like to see all of us do a annual recap of our tank pictures as you did.
Well Frank, where is yours. I don't know if I've ever seen any pictures of your tank & I think it would be nice to have a peek at it.

Bensaf, I hope you don't stay out of the hobby too long. Thanks for the help you gave me when I was starting out.

Cheers
TW
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mattyboombatty
 
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Bensaf, I'm sorry about the tough luck and need to move. I've moved all over this country, and I hate it every time. At least you might be going to the land of Guinness. That can't be all bad. I'm sure the pull will be there to start back up from scratch. It only took me a couple weeks to start missing mine when it was down this summer. We'll be here when you get back into it. Good luck with the move.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 18:14Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
Good grief guys, you all sound so morbid It's starting to feel I'm attending my own memorial service Appreciate the kind words but really it's nothing too serious , just a big pain in the butt to be honest.

Without wanting to move the thread off topic, but just to put peoples minds at ease I'll give you a quick rundown of what's going on.

I worked here for the Indonesian production center of a Singapore multi national. Basically the Jakarta factory was closed down in August. What was disapointing to me was the manner in which the closure came about. It wasn't due to any of the normal financial or business reasons but mainly to do with a CEO and shareholder who got themselves into personal difficulties. Their behavior since has been shoddy and unprofessional to say the least.
For the best month I've just been cleaning up the mess, selling off the assets etc which has just kept me very busy and not much time or inclination to post.

As for future plans - well at this stage of my life my #1 priority is the happiness and comfort of my wife. She is my life, end of story, period nothing more to say. While my first preference would be to move back home it's a bit more difficult for her. She has a very large family here to whom we are both very close ( see the AV ) , she never lived away from home til she married me and moving to new continent would be a huge step for her. It's a step she's willing to take but a few more years here would be preferable to her. So I agreed to try to find a job here before making a final decision. I owe her that much at least for the joy and love she has brought to my life.

A westerner trying to find a job here ( or at least a job I'm willing to take) is not so easy. There are still a couple of possibilities but nothing definate yet. If nothing suitable is found by the end of October we have decided to head back to Ireland. I still have a house there and work is easy to find, my main problem would be choosing who to work for, so really there's no financial pressure or concern.

The company did want me to move to one there other locations but I would no longer work for these people if they were the last employers on earth . I've had other offers in Asia and, yes, even the US tetra , but I've turned them all down. If I'm going to drag Safrina around the world it's best to head back to the 'oul sod, where we have friends both Irish and Indonesian, plus my own family who adore Safrina as much as I do ( I'm sure my Dad likes her more then me, he learned how to use a cellphone just so he could text her ). All of this will greatly help her settle in.

A decision will be made either way by the end of October.

As for the tanks, well if I stay here it'll be just a matter of tearing them down and setting up in our new home, fairly painless. If we move back to Ireland well I'll have to give everything away, can't be dragging all that stuff around the world. Of course everything is more expense in Ireland as regards the hobby and certainly I won't have access to all the rare plants and fish I do here. Plus I'll be busy settling in to a new job, getting the house ready etc, so it could be a while.

So all in all it's no biggie. All part of the Ex-pat life really. I've been travelling for ten years now. Been a blast. The best and worst time of life. I've seen so many things and met so many people. Lots of dreams have come through for me because of this life, there's been a few nightmares and truly desperate moments, I've seen things I'll never forget including some I desperately want to forget, but they made me a man, or at least the man I am now and I wouldn't change any of it, the best decision I ever made was to become an Irish nomad. I did good for a skinny kid from a ghetto on the northside of Dublin. But it's done, the draft Guinness is whispering my name and to top it off I get to walk away with the greatest most beautiful woman in the world. I'm very much at peace with what's happening, so no need to worry.

Whatever happens I'll still be around to nag you guys. Enough with the 3 Stooges ( Ingo was Curly right ? )and bring on the Marx Brothers - I have dibs on being Groucho !!! Just need time to get settled.

Of course I'll post some pics before I tear down the tank, it's become a stunner !

So that's all I'll say on that subject.

We will now return to your normal programming schedule.....




Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 05:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well Bensaf,

That sure is a major move there and I wish you all the best for it. As you can see, your latest entry completely stalled the entries to this thread as we are all speachless. I am sure all of us sit around wondering how long it will take you to get your internet connection up and running wherever you will move to. Screw the tanks that you may or may not build, as long as we can talk to you

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 29-Sep-2006 10:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 53

This week has seen no changes in the tank, except more growth. I was considering to trim the Star Grass and Hygro this weekend, but then got too lazy. So, next weekend I will have to trim them for sure.

With the new filter in place now for a few weeks I don't see much of a change in the tank yet. It may be a little cleaner on the bottom when I vacuum, but green hair algae is still growing on the Anubias and wood in particular.

Here is a shot of the tank from last weekend:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend



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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And here is this weekend. As you can see, in particular the Hygro group causes quite some shading at the front of the tank. I think rather sooner than later I have to bite the bullet and re-arrange the hardscape so I can form a more scape like tank (rather than a mess as it is right now).

Attached Image:

Now



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LITTLE_FISH
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Already on to the last photo of this session.

Can someone say "well fed" ???

I don't think my Otos are compaining too much about the algae in the tank

Attached Image:

My Tummy Hurts



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TW
 
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I think your oto is very happy & thanks you for very much for his/her dinner. If this is your plumpest, if your theory is right, it should be a girl - right?

Cheers
TW
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Yeah, from the shape of the belly I would assume that this one is a female. I have 6 otos in this tank and only some of them are this fat. But all have the same food source, a tank full of algae .

Ingo


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Wingsdlc
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LF,

You only have 6 Otos in your 125? I am running 10 in my 40G. You could probably add some more if you wanted to.

What are others Oto to Gallon ratio?

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I have 4 in my 50. I'd like to get a couple more though. If I had an algae supply like LF(no offense ) I'd have 20 in there. Couldn't hurt at least.



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goldfishgeek
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Hello LF

(Hello Bensaf! good luck with the move - was worried there for a bit, I have a six gallon tank that was inspired by your desktop tank - the little one?)

sorry LF, back on topic, your ottos made me laugh! I have started buying new gravel for the 35G, and will start the big scary re do in two weeks time.

I'll have to reread some of your log.

I can't believe its been a year. amazing.

GFG

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Thanks Wings, Matty, and GFG

Well, more Otos is always a nice thing, but more fish is more poop. The 6 in my 40G have quite some significant output there, as I could always nicely see on the top of my Anubias leaves .

Honestly, I think at this stage of the tank they are more decoration than anything else.

Ingo


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I see your point for not adding any new fish in right now.

Half of my fish load are Otos (10) while the other half are med sized Brillian Rasboras (8).

When I start thinking about our tanks in general it really amazes me that some of use have little to no problems while others are cursed as we are all running very similar systems. The only major differences I can really think of is Plant choise and fish load. Maybe tetra and I got off easy be cause we worship the wisteria.

Any new thoughts on a Ingo redo?



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this thread still going?!1

tank still looks great littlefish, just going to spend the next 3 days reading all whats been going on

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Karl,

How have you been? Long time no see. Was that all because of the early English exit from the world championship

Anyway, yeah - the log is still going, although I have to say that the entries are more sporadic these days. People must be sick and tired of hearing my complaints over and over again .

Talk to you later, have to work now,

Ingo


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The only thing I'm tired of is lack of entries. I hate when this site dies down like this.

*twiddles thumbs*



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Post InfoPosted 05-Oct-2006 21:54Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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We haven't seen Mr. and Mrs Apisto in a very long time.

Nor have we seen the Pearls! Have they ever shown any signs of coupling off or breeding? How goes the espei management?

I haven't been posting much either. Busy with work AND life so that doesn't leave me much time. Trying to find the time to set up my own new tank, but that got put on hold because we may be getting the apartment painted... and I'm sure there's NOTHING in the world like trying to move a 700lb. tank away from a wall and keeping it properly protected so it doesn't get paint chips and fumes in it You can see my frustration with the project.

Just so I'm thinking of this right, LF, you have in the tank now:

espei
dwarf neon rainbows
pearls - 2
apistos - 2
and otos, correct?


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The only thing I'm tired of is lack of entries. I hate when this site dies down like this
Tell me all about it, it ruins my average posts per day.

NowherMan6 - Sorry to hear about your crazy work schedule, but why should you be better off than me

Yeah, you got that right, these are the fish in my tank. I have never seen the Pearls showing any signs of interest in breeding. One reason why I held off with the second filter for so long was that I hoped he would build a bubble nest on the right tank side where the surface current was really weak, but nothing happened. Now I have loads of current and I assume that even if he tried to build a nest it would float away.

The Espei population seems stable now, maybe one or two fish came in since the last trade with the LFS. I am sure the Apistos and Rainbows have something to do with it.

Ingo


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LF,

I used to have a lot of hair algae to say the least in my 42 hex. I even had it growing on the substrate. I tried several kinds of fish and the japonica shrimp that were supposed to be good at grazing on the hair algae, but they just couldn't keep up. Then I read about the American Flag Fish (Jordanella floridae). My LFS was able to order some for me and I bought one male and two females. Within 5 minutes of releasing these fish into my tank they began to feed voraciously on the hair algae and within 3 days there wasn't a strand of hair algae to be seen! I haven't had a problem with it since that time as I think the algae eating livestock I have more than keeps up with the pace now. I will say that I had to move them out of the tank into another one because they would nip at the fins of my Angels, but it was well worth it until there job was done!

Just a thought that I haven't read about anyone trying on here.

Dan
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LITTLE_FISH
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Dan,

Thanks for the tip . I have thought about these fish, but turned them down rather quickly. Mainly for the reason you mentioned, being rather aggressive fish. Also, they for sure would go after my smaller espei.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 54

Not much has happened to the tank this week, just feeding and ferting (new Ingo word ). The maintenance this weekend saw the trimming of the hygro and the star grass, plus the repositioning and trimming of a few stems of Alternanthera.

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend



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By this weekend, the star grass and the hygro had grown even more, so did the duck weed on the surface. I guess my plant food is working out pretty good (including the new tropica micros - on a much reduced dosage from the TMG, 20ml x 3 vs. 50ml x 3).

Here is the tank before trimming, almost all lower parts are shaded all the way to the front:

Attached Image:

Before Trimming



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LITTLE_FISH
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And here is the tank after the trimming. Note the now larger group of Alternanthera towards the right. I used to have the individual stems more dispersed throughout the tank:

Attached Image:

Now



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Last shot for now, a closer look at the center area. A little off to the right, in front of the star grass, sits a larger Crypt Wendtii Red. This plant, for unknown reasons, melted pretty bad during the last week. Only some of the smaller leaves are still there. I don't think it got shaded too much and I have no explanation for why this happened.

Attached Image:

Where is the Wendtii?



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goldfishgeek
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Just going to have a moment of green with envy induced meaness.

My crypts don't melt!!!!! *evil laugh* and I have moved them and washed them and every thing!

of course all my other plants die or fall apart, as well as some fish



GFGx

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That is funny GFG

I guess you like the rest of the tank then . Well, it is working its way back up to having more BBA, I can see the first signs on the wood again.

Ingo


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NowherMan6
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Wow, can't believe I missed this big change

Looks good LF. I'm very impressed with that mass of NL fern you have. It's a pretty fast grower I've found, and grows pretty large too (starting to outgrow my nano... ... not really, but still getting big)

Anyway, I think it's BEGGING to climb the ladder of that big DW piece. As it is it seems to be just forming a flat mat across the lower section - why not, at some point, break it up a bit and make it more dynamic? Tie some bunches up the length of the branch a little, similar to the way you've used the Bolbitus in your 40G. This would also work on the right side piece of DW.

Just throwing it out there, as usual


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Good idea NowherMan6,

I have been thinking about that, but then decided to hold off until I know what to do about the big log, and with it the rest of the tank, in the first place. I think my current setup does not permit me to move forward and a change is needed, at least a change to the driftwood.

But I have neither time nor courage to do this right now

The NL fern looks so flat because there is quite some current in that area that pushes the leaves horizontally to the left.

Ingo


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I was going to comment on your fern too. It sure looks like it has grown a ton. I hope to get my hands on one either with our next plant order at work or at the auction I am going to next weekend.

I also like the idea of having the fern grow up the DW but I understand you wanting to wait to do it unitl you have things figured out.

Quite the trim job too! You can see the plants on the bottem now! Before it just looked back.

How is the chain sword doing?

Has work been a bear latly? Is tetra still alive? Maybe he just doesn't like his tank with the 4 foot light....

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Post InfoPosted 13-Oct-2006 14:23Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Maybe he just doesn't like his tank with the 4 foot light....
Maybe that's it. I asked to see a picture of the tank with the new light, and he just plain disappeared

Cheers
TW
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I think the light is just a coincidence. I doubt that it messed up his tank soooo quickly, actually, I think that it probably made everything grow even better.

About the chain sword - what chain sword? I have maybe 3 to 5 plants left, spread out throughout the tank. I find that in all of my tanks, high and low tech, chain swords do not like to be moved. Once established and later moved they all did really poorly. I don't know why though, because all did really well when moved into the respective tanks.

Work is mad, but I am getting used to it a little better.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 13-Oct-2006 16:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I find that chain swords do very well with being moved if it also involves a bit of thinning out so they get more light. Usually I pull them all up, take out the largest half and then replant the smaller half. Then in a month or two I have to do it again. I usually make a few bucks off of it though. In fact I may need to do that today.....I'm snowed in so there's not much else I can do. Good ol' Buffalo, Lake effect snow in October.



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Post InfoPosted 13-Oct-2006 17:08Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah,

It was pretty cold down here this morning as well, but certainly no snow yet. Glad we got the Apistos shipped earlier this year.

My tenellus was behaving like yours in the beginning as well, maybe it takes a few moves before it has enough of it. I have no other explanation for it, as the tank conditions in my various tanks have not changed while tenellus growth got worse with each move.

Ingo


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About the chain sword - what chain sword?
I thought that chain swords were fairly easy to keep. But I guess with any thing they probably do better for some people than others.

ood ol' Buffalo, Lake effect snow in October.
We got snow here but not snowed in at all. Don't really want to go outside so I guess you could call it snowed in. It did look pretty outside yesterday with the snow stuck to the colored up trees.

BTW: Come See!


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Post InfoPosted 13-Oct-2006 17:47Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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But I guess with any thing they probably do better for some people than others
I do not know if it is the people that make the difference, as I grew it very successful in my tanks. But no longer

Anyway, I got up extra early this morning to upload, trim, and resize my pictures for this week's update (late, I know, but have been busy yesterday), but once completed the site was down, at least I could not post anything anymore

So, it will have to wait until tonight then, nothing major happened anyway

Ingo


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Better late than never -

Weekly Tank Update - Week 55

Nothing happened to the tank this week, besides feeding and fetilizing. I think the increased water flow help, at least my duckweed grows by its name, weed

Here is the tank this weekend:

Attached Image:

Now



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Now on to some more or less detailed shots, in random order.

Here is a closeup of the Alternanthera group. Hard to believe that all these plant are from one small accidental plant that I got when the tank was initially set up:

Attached Image:

Alternanthera



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LITTLE_FISH
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And here is a closeup showing my diffusing style, in case you forgot. First I have the diffuser hack the CO2 bubbles in small pieces, then the above sitting powerhead redirects them vertically (and makes the bubbles even smaller).

I have not cleaned the diffuser in at least 2 months except for dripping Excel on top of it during the water change.

Ups- have to read a story now, will continue in about 30min.

Attached Image:

Hack Em



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Nice, the wife will be reading to them, so on with the entries:

Here is a closer look at the Narrow Leaf Java Fern. The main focus though is not intended to be the fern, as you will be able to see better in the next shot.

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NL Java Fern



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
This one is specially for Matty, as he toys with the idea of putting $40++ of plants in a darker spot of his tank. Nana Petites will grow well there, but noone can see them in the pictures. When I hole the camera real close and extremely overexpose the image then one can see that I have 5 petites lined up in front of the fern. Actually, a waste in my tank:

Attached Image:

Nana Petite



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Here is one group of my Pearl Grass, I guess it will need some trimming soon. This one is in the left front corner of the tank.

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Pearl Grass



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And here are my 5 Rainbows. After I had to put one of the original 6 down a few weeks back it seems like nobody else is getting sick. I remember that I lost my 3 females within weeks of each other with similar symptoms.

Attached Image:

Rainbows



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With all this picture taking, my male Apisto did not want to be left out. He paraded along the tank front for me and gave me plenty of options to capture a shot of him:

Attached Image:

Apisto



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But after about 10 shots that I took he got bored and started to yawn.

Sometimes he does that, I assume to keep his mouth flexible so he can eat huge snails


Attached Image:

Tired?



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And just to prove that I am having my own Wisteria Creepery in my tank (what is going on tetratech, did you break your hands and can't type?), here is one of my two Wisteria patches:

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Wisteria



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Look At The Previous Page For Way More Pictures

And the last two shots are in Matty style, aka crazy angles. I usually don't see my tank in this perspective, but it shows the duck weed on the surface. This was after I removed about 50%.


Attached Image:

Duck Weed



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And an even weirder shot is this one, again showing the duck weed. Don't worry, what seems like loads of algae on the back is just a reflection of the the duck weed on the surface.

That's it,

Have Fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Crazy Shot



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Nice pic of your apisto yawning LF. I also like the upward angles on your tank. I can imagine you laying on the floor taking pics . I have to say the larger group of alternanthera is stunning. That should have happened much sooner. Larger groups of plants seem to make a better impact on the viewer IMO. The star grass needs to pop back up a bit, and then the tank will look very nice I think.

I happened to notice the petite nana in the first pic, but I can see why you would say they are pointless there. You don't need them there. That's a very nice little portion in your tank with the NL fern. However, I do need something in that spot in my tank. Otherwise it's an eyesore. Mesh and pvc don't lend themselves to a natural planted tank, like most people would think. I'm just trying to come up with the best possible solution as I can see the glosso doesn't cut the cake....or cheese(maybe that's what those bubbles are ). I need something that isn't large(won't shade out the glosso below it on the substrate which gets plenty of light), grows in lower light, will attach itself to mesh, and doesn't need substrate. Any other ideas?



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Post InfoPosted 17-Oct-2006 02:54Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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see the glosso doesn't cut the cake....or cheese


Thanks Matty for the input (sparse these days, my tank must be too boring for words)

Yeah, I really way lying on the floor when taking the upwards shots

Also, I agree, the Alternanthera group has never been prettier.

And with regards to your "dark spot", I feel your pain. Moss is no good as it would creep out of control. Anubias Nana Petite cost $$$. How about narrow leaf java fern, grows slow enough to be maintainable?

Ingo


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Scrolled back over an earlier page of pics, where you can only see a hint of your alternanthera. I'm so glad you've given it room to shine. I also like that we can see beyond the plants to the back of the tank. I used to think that all of the back wall of a tank had to be covered in tall stems, but I like this look, where in places you can see the black beyond. More interesting & gives more depth. Hard to maintain that though, as some of these darn stems grow so fast. Always needing trimming to keep them the right height.

Does the floating duckweed block your light & cause shading. I don't think I'd dare try it in my low light tanks, but I guess you guys with better lights, have the wpg to spare?

Cheers
TW
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Does the floating duckweed block your light & cause shading
Yes, it does. I currently run an experiment on my 29G with 65W and almost the entire surface covered with duckweed, we will see how that goes. On a positive side, it is a major nitrate sucker upper , as much as I know.

Robyn, thanks also for the overall comments on the tank, and I agree with all of your points. Just last night I looked at the Alternanthera group and thought about its time limited beauty. In not too long of a future I will have to trim that group and it will never look the same again.

Ingo


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Ok,

So I didn't want to make a big deal out of this, but I jst cannot resist. I ordered a few more plants:

- 3 Bunches of Ludwigia peruensis
- 6 Pots of Tenellus
- 3 Crypt Wendtii Green

All entities arrived, although the Wendtiis are way more than 3, but little plants for that. Here is the order:

Attached Image:

Plant Order



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As I will not really plant anything today, I cleaned and "parked" the plants for the time being.

Here are all the individual peruensis stems planted in the 125G:

Attached Image:

All Peruensis



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One thing that this last shot made ovbious is that they appear from the distance very similar to the Alternanthera.

In a closer shot of the main planted group one can appreciate them more:

Attached Image:

Peruensis I



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And here is another look at the peruensis that I lined up in front of the tank, as I said - just parking them for the time being.

Are these the ones that Matty has in his 50? I forgot.

Attached Image:

Peruensis II



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The other plants are parked in the 20G, I didn't even remove the Tenellus from the pots. I guess that is all right, right?

The Crypts are most likely to stay in this tank, but for sure not in that spot. I ordered them because I felt like making the order worthwhile.

Attached Image:

Park Em



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The reason why I ordered potted Tenellus was because the explanation made it appear as if they were grown submersed, and the loose ones where grown emersed.

But the bud endings on some of them make me believe that these were grown emersed as well.

For the "I Spy" fans, there is a baby platy in this picture as well

Attached Image:

Emersed?



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Now,

"What does that all mean?" is probably a question that you all ask yourselves (or not).

Anyway, if I tell you it has to do with me taking Friday off and use it on this tank, I assume you know what it means

So, if you have any suggestions, you have about a day and a half to let me know about them.

Ingo


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Well, good luck with your Ingo tank re-do. Is it a major or a minor redo. Anyway, I'm nowhere near enough of a scaper to make useful suggestions - but I hope you have fun.

Have fun with your new plants, they look very nice.

I'm at work, so this is a very quick visit. With only time for a quick glance, I didn't spot your baby platy - only what I thought might have been a snail or two. I will play "I Spy" later when not at work (and won't cheat by looking at any other's answer first)

Cheers
TW
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The potted chain swords are definitely emersed grown. They'll do fine anyways.

The ludwigia peruensis aka peruvian ludwigia is usually the false name ludwigia glandulosa is sold under. That is what I've gathered from my searching around. Yours have 2 leaves per node though, and every picture of ludwigia glandulosa I've seen only has one leaf per node. Otherwise yours looks very similar to mine when I bought it, green on top red underneath, real thick stems. If it ends up changing forms from emersed to submersed and only has one leaf per node and turns bright red(top and bottom), you know what you have.

BTW I can't find the platy

Good luck with the makeover



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Thanks for the input and Matty - thanks for the ludwigia glandulosa info.

Yeah, I think I should explain why I am willing to do another major overhaul again. During the last few months I mentioned quite a few time the fact that I am not too happy with the location of the wood and that relocating it would mean that it a) has to be removed first and b) that it has to be cut in managable pieces. Now that I have the 40G, which has its hardscape pretty much in place, I can see how rather easy it is to do small changes to enhance the scape. I would like to lay out this tank so that following changes are managable, but to get to that point a more permanent arrangement of hardscape has to happen first. And unfortunately this means that I have to pretty much remove most of the plants and excisting scape first anyway

Ingo


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That's the LF we know!

Hardscape on the left is needed, and go heavy on the hardscape throughout the tank if you can. Plants will grow in around it and you may not notice a bunch of it, but it's important that it's there to give some structure.

The tenellus looks less emersed than when I first got mine - many of the leaves are short and flat as they should be, but there are also some tall stringy ones with the seed pods, and that's a sign of emersed growth. It'll be a little messy in the first few weeks, but they'll shed quickly enough.


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http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/36681-75-gallon-gallery-56k-warning.html

This tank is pretty impressive. At lest it is to me. The thing I wanted to point out about it the amount of DW in it. Once the tank is planted most of the DW is gone.

My only sugestion would be to keep the plants low in the front and work your way up in the back. I think this makes the tank look much deeper than it is. Right now your NL fern is just too huge up front.

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Thanks guys for the input

Wings - why do you have to show me this picture and make the stakes so high? . I cannot live up to this by a long shot.

The main concern is to move and cut the driftwood, although I don't have a clear vision on what to put where. Nevertheless, I feel more confident now than ever before as I think my 40G setup worked out pretty well (and don't you guys dare to tell me otherwise now ).

Ingo


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To go along with what I previously said, LF, I would check out AF for driftwood options, they have probably the best stock I know of and it's not too pricey. Avoid blocky pieces, look for branchy pieces with long bits sticking out. You can also use smaller pieces together to look like one piece. I would suggest not skimping, as Wings has said.


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Interesting

I was actually not planning to add new wood to the tank and have not even considered this option.

Instead, I plannned on cutting up my big piece and use the branches individually. This should eliminate that big trunk in the front.

Ingo


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That will work as well, but just in case you pre-plan and find you may want more to work with, give AF atry, they've had some very nice pieces.

How will you make sure the branhces dont float?


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If I get new wood from AF then the color etc will not match (see the critics that I got a while back for my 20 QT). So I would need all new pieces.

The existing wood is in there now at least 6 months, I hope it will stay down by itself. If not, some rocks will have to be either used as weights or I will squeeze some wood between 2 rocks.

Ingo


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So....hmmmm.....where was the platy?



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Forgot all about the platy fry

BTW, currently there are maybe around 8 fry in the tank. And here is the one that was the subject of "I Spy":

Attached Image:

See It?



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And here is a super zoom closeup of the fry, in case you thought I sell you a small leaf in its place:

Attached Image:

Closer



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I can't beleive you guys didn't see that thing! It is only bright white(or yellowish) and happened to be right in the middle!

LF,

Good luck with the redo today! Rock it out my Friend!/:'

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The big tank is looking pretty good. Good luck with your fish day.

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Thanks guys,

Just a very quick update:

I am almost done, but I have to take a family break before I can finish.

So far: belh

Ingo


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Well,

All done for today, took me only overall 8 hours,

Here are the steps:

First, the tank before the start, this morning:

Attached Image:

Tank Before Change



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Next, I removed all the plants and placed them in tubberware containers, one of which I even quipped with a heater. The water was from the tab, but I used prime.

Then the wood was removed.

Here is the tank right after the messy removal:

Attached Image:

All Nekkid



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The I performed a water change and vacuumed almost the entire substrate. Only one corner was left out as the water level was falling too low already.

Here is the tank after a refill:

Attached Image:

Water Changed



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Once I started working on removing the plants I could for the first time in quite a while account for all of my Otos. After the water change I tried to find them all but was one short. I checked the tank over and over again, but could not find it. I ran to the laundry room (where the sink is with the wood and the python) and sure enough, in the empty and barely wet sink was the missing Oto , still alive. It must have been in there at least an hour and a half as it must have traveled on the wood.

I scooped the Oto out with my hand and immediately returned it to the tank. He wiggled in my hand, then swam off and was still fine an hour later. Ever since the tank is replanted again I cannot see the Otos anyway.

Here is the escaper after release:

Attached Image:

Oto Runaway



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After cleaning the back and one side panel I cut the driftwood into individual branches and scrubbed them all off. The it was time to place them into the tank (they sink by now) to outline the main group.

Here is the first, and almost last attempt:

Attached Image:

Branches Outline Main Group



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After extending the main group a little it was time to place the plants back into the tank. First, I added the ones that surround the main group.

In this stage you can see the main layout of the new tank very well. Once I was finished planting it wasn't all that clear anymore. But the point of this change was to allow me future updates without having to rip the tank apart again.

So keep that in mind, this is the basic setup now:

Attached Image:

Basic Setup



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Then it was time to add the remainder of the plants, without adding the ones back in that I don't like anymore I(don't fit into the layout).

As such, I am short on plants right now

Anyway, here is the tank after I finished, what do you think?

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

All Done



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Ingo,

The new layout looks very nice. It kind of feels like an island almost. Very neat effect. Plus you can really spot the fish!

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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I found the platy...I found it!!

Ooo...I like it. Looks like it could be a tropical island there in the middle, especially if the wisteria were to grow around the main groupind to form the sea. Lots of different scapes could form around the central group though. Very diverse, very attractive, I like it.

EDIT: well I second rick I guess.

Oh, I can't tell from the pic but did you find a more suitable place for the nana petite?



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Nice work LF! I really like the Anubias work! The nana petite (bottem left in front of the DW?)

Will get back with you more later! I have a marching band show/fish auction/Chicago marithon to watch this weekend....

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Thanks guys for the input

Yeah, it looks like an island, and I am sure that some plants will change over time. Most important to me was to create a more "styles" overall layout and, based on your comments, I guess that worked out.

The Nana Petites are spread out throughout the main group border from left to the middle. I will take some detail shots of the tank today and I will make sure to include them.

The tank is really short on plants and I may have to add the wisteria from the 20G to fill it up a little.

Oh - interesting side note: I assume that the Espei have made a packt when the tank was empty. Somewhere in the line "if we survive this then we have to strenghten the group". As soon as the main group border was in with the Anubias they went at the reporroduction ritual like mad. The were hushing under the anubias leaves even while I was planting the wisteria right next to them .

The Apistos seem to have been the ones mostly stressed by the replant, the male was hiding for the rest of the day.

Ingo


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Wow, what a change. Looks very nice LF. I like your anubias & nana petites. It's right, it does have the feel of an island & now you can have separate groupings, on both sides.

Good job with the make-over

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi Ingo,
The overhaul looks great!
I like this placement of the driftwood with some of it
a little further into the back of the tank. The placement
along with the use of the ground cover, adds depth to
the tank and enforces the "island" concept.
I'm curious to see what it will mature into.
With the Espei's - in many cases a large water change
will prompt the spawning urge.
It looks like you put in a solid days work. The thing that
never ceases to amaze me is how elaborate a root system
our plants develop over sometimes, a very short time.
When they do it in my flourite, I always have my Vortex,
diatom filter, primed and ready to run.

What did you do with the plants you were no longer
interested in?

Frank

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Post InfoPosted 22-Oct-2006 17:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Robyn and Frank, your input is very welcome

Here is a weekly tank update, although there should not be much of a secret on what I have to tell, but it is a tradition

Weekly Tank Update - Week 56

Well, it was time for another major tank overhaul, Ingo Style. I know I am risking all kinds of things with this, but I had to get some more favorable structure into the tank upon which I can build future updates.

I am currently a little short on plants and I hope that this is not coming back to haunt me (except on Halloween, ).

To stir things up a little, I will start with some details. Here is the left side of the tank, the one that got the really short end of the stick. I grouped here all my crypts, except my red wendtiis, on the left back and side. On the right side, bordering the island, is a group of taller Pearl Grass, in between the new tenellus and some wisteria from the 20G:

Attached Image:

Left Side



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Here is the right border of the island. It has some of the reddish lugwigia still hidden in the back, then some NL Java Fern on the wood, then some red Wendtiis in front of it, and some Anubias in front of them. To the right is Wisteria only, I hope tetratech will not call me a copy cat

Attached Image:

Right Side



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Post InfoPosted 22-Oct-2006 19:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a look into the island, without showing all of the borders. I know it is a little on the red side , but that is ok.

You may notice that I use the Star Grass as a border between the red Ludwigia / Alternanthera and the Anubias. I discarded most of the star grass, it is not worth the helluffa maintenance and dying of lower parts. I will try to keep it short, even if it means at least bi-weekly trimming:

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Main Part Of Island



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Post InfoPosted 22-Oct-2006 19:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a look at the front border of the island, containing the 5 nana petites. Can you find them?

The Anubias in general received a major trimming, all kinds of algae infested leaves were cut off, as were old and leaveless parts of rhizomes.

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Anubias Row Coast



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Post InfoPosted 22-Oct-2006 19:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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The most worrisome part of the replant (besides the "lost" Oto) was the Apisto pair. They both seemed really scared and hid behind the heaters and filter intakes

By now, almost all seemed fine again, although the female doesn't come out much. The reason may be some egg laying though, as she was defending the right side of the main group with the wood.

Here is the male again:

Attached Image:

Male Apisto Viejita II



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Post InfoPosted 22-Oct-2006 19:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Last but not least, here is a full tank shot from this morning. Compared to the last full shot from Friday there are a few more plant on the left tank side, collected from the 20.

Please make sure to also check on my 20, 29, and 40 logs as all have new entries and in particular the 20 and the 29 have changes a little.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Full Tank Shot - Today



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Post InfoPosted 22-Oct-2006 19:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Well,

There seems to be something going on in the breeding department with the Apistos (while the male in the 40 is doing really bad and may die).

The female has found a spot in the wood on the right hand side of the island and is almost never coming out. If she does then only in the immediate are of the wood.

Just now, the group of Rainbows came pretty close, and here is the male's response:

Attached Image:

Go Away



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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 01:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Then the female Pearl joined that group, but the male Apisto even challenged her, although she is for sure number two in the tank (after the male Pearl).

Here he shows her the way as well.

That's it, we will see.

Ingo

Attached Image:

And you better leave as well



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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 01:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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LF,

Very

I like the structure of the middle-right section. Defintetly the right direction. I can see the island thing, I can also see moving more in that direction if you see fit, using glosso or HC or something to make a "sea" around the left side.

Well done, and nice little story about the oto


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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 13:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks NowherMan6,

I wish I could have the red plants on the island grow some more and the freeze the entire island and just keep on working on the surrounding "sea".

Unfortunately, that is only a dream as all will grow eventually out of shape and then it will be time for a redo . But I think I can handle the island for quite a while, with all kinds of options.

The one thing I am considering is to replace the Star Grass border with maybe didiplis diandra, which I believe is not as messy as the star grass and also grows on stronger stems. The star grass is blowing slightly sidewards.

About Glosso or HC, I may try first to surround the island with wisteria, in good old tetratech fashion . If the tenellus ever settles then I may use any runners to "refresh" the culture in the 29.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 14:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well I'm sneaking this one out

I like the makeover much better as you said it's more "styled". I think it's more managable and something you could have fun fine-tuning as you go along. It's very tough to create a "bensaf-like" tank in a 125g without being "semi-retired"

About the didiplis diandra:
I had this plant way back when I purchased my aromatica and blyxa. It's the only plant that didn't make it. It's very fragile and light sensitive. It's also going to be a big pain when trimming. You know Blyxa might work in that spot and is not a fast grower.

About the Wisteria:
Go ahead knock yourself, but be prepared to see Jersey vs New York wisteria comparisons. Since I've seen about 5 FP tanks with creeping wisteria, maybe the Mods will give me a special contributor award.

Ingo Style Makeover in regards to Algae:
Most important if you haven't done so aready, reduce your lighting cylce to 7.5 to 8 hours tops and gradually increase as the tank matures and is stable. Same goes for ferts reduce to lower EI range and increase with mass.

I think by this weekend I'll be back to some tank updates and responses to Matty and other threads.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 16:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Most important if you haven't done so aready, reduce your lighting cylce to 7.5 to 8 hours tops and gradually increase as the tank matures and is stable. Same goes for ferts reduce to lower EI range and increase with mass.



Shouldn't that go without saying at this point?!?


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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 16:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Shouldn't that go without saying at this point?!?
We can only hope!



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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 17:17Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Well,

First of all, glad to have been able to get a response from tetratech, just for that the makeover was already worthwhile. If I only could get one from Bensaf as well, although he hasn't been on in a few days now

Thanks tetratech, I forgot about the issues with the diandra. I don't think the Blyxa would work as it seems to take forever until it even reaches any height (meaning, it is too short and would not even be seen. The plants I need there would have to be about 5 to 6 inches tall (above the substrate).

Next:
Shouldn't that go without saying at this point?!?
Actually, I did reduce the ferts a little, but not the light. I begin to have my doubts about my philosophy regarding light duration and intensity. I maintain my 10h and actually increased the "high light" about a week back to 3.5 hours.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 18:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I begin to have my doubts about my philosophy regarding light duration and intensity.
and your philospohy would be???

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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 20:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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and your philospohy would be?
Well, I stated that I have doubts about my philospohy, which is in sink with you guys.

The "new" thoughts are not well formed (yet), but there is of course the notion that the plants actually do not get enough lights to perform at their best. 1.5wpg is not quite much for almost all day (except the one hour I used to beef up the lighting).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 20:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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The new structure is looking good & it seems the change may have prompted your apistos to mate. That should be very interesting, although any fry would probably struggle to survive in the community tank with the plant mass lower. But then, I'm talking about my tanks - where my adults are all notorious fry eaters. You have had success with platy & espei - so fingers crossed for you.

Cheers
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Post InfoPosted 25-Oct-2006 14:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks Robyn,

Nah, there will be no fry, not even my Espei fry has a chance now, and they are going at it like mad all the time .

There are simply enough fish in the tank to extremely limit the chances of any fry not to be detected.

As a side note, and unrelated to the upcoming loss of an Apisto in the 40G, this tank is seeing its first Espei death rather sooner than later. Given the signs on the fish (fading coloration and less transparency in the fins, combined with holding a static position in the water column rather than swimming all over the place) makes me strongly believe it is a case of old age. It for sure, by its size, is one of my original batch purchased over a year ago, which then was already in mating age. Nothing to worry about, just the way of life.

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Post InfoPosted 25-Oct-2006 15:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well,

Given that the Apisto in the 40G is gone and given that I placed an image of it in that log, I thought I owe you an image from the Espei mentioned in the last thread.

Here you see the "old" Espei, and I am rather certain that he/she is suffering from old age only (please tell me otherwise if you should identify an illness). I thought I owe this picture as it completes my Espei life cycle of images, from small fry over juveniles to adults and seniors.

As you can see, the body coloration is fading away, in particular in the front body section. Also, the fins are less clear and have mostly a whitish base color.

Ingo

Attached Image:

Old Espei



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Post InfoPosted 26-Oct-2006 00:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
shawnp2k
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Ingo: Good Job on your new tank overhaul i see how you have a lot more room for future development. I hope you're algae problem will be a lot less then in your previous layout. I cant wait to see how it will look in the next few months to come.

Cheers

Shawn
Post InfoPosted 28-Oct-2006 03:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks Shawn, I appreciate the comment

Just like you said, I am also happy that this layout will allow me to change things from now on a little more slowly rather than having to perform 10 hour makeover sessions every few months. And like you, I am very curious as to what it will become in the next few months.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Oct-2006 10:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
jase101
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hey there lf -

great work on the tank - i can't believe how much work you do on your tank!! i love watching it progress from stage to stage. i just did a big clean out, thinning out all my swords, and propogating some tiger lotus pups - not a bad sunday arvo at all.

hope you are well,

justin
Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 12:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks Justin

I appreciate your input and compliments, keep em coming

Anyway:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 57

The tank has been doig quite ok during this week, I was hoping not to see a major outbreak in algae (from the redo) and so far I have been lucky. The duck weed on top grew rather dense and needed some major thinning out as the two spray bars on each end concentrated the weed in the middle of the tank and that led to shading of the main group, not so good.

I have quite a few shots to show, so here is the first set, taken during the water change.

This is the diffuser at low tide, as you can see there is some algae on it. I have not cleaned it in months and the green part is the one where the diffuser never let out any bubbles (ever). My cleaning consists of dripping Excel on top of the plate (after drying it off with a tissue) when the water gets below the rim. That is all I do since months.

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Diffuser



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a look at the main group from almost above, a little from the side. I cannot really get a straight down shot as I would have to make a hole in the ceeling of the room and take a shot from the first floor .

I am always surprised to see how bright blue the background of the tank actually is. It seems so much darker when there is water in the tank.

This reminds me, maybe I should play with the background for a few weeks.

Attached Image:

Low Tide Main Group



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Here is a look at most of the fish that are in the tank, almost all shots were taken during low tide. Usually, most fish are hiding in the plants during water change, but this weekend they were parading around.

Here are the Espei swimming along the island perimiter, supervised by the male Apisto:

Attached Image:

Espei School



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is the female Apisto, above the Wisteria. I assume her "fry" from last was either non-existent or had been eaten/abandoned/died.

Attached Image:

Female Apisto



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Just for completion of the Apisto pair, here is a shot of the male, taken a few hours after the water change. Besides showing him, I would like to point out the little bubbles in the water which are finely diffused CO2 bubbles. And that is on the other side of the tank from the diffuser.

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Male Apisto



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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On to some other fish of the tank, here is a neon dwarf rainbow looking into the camera. I wonder if they wonder what it is that I am doing there. But I guess I give them too much credit

Anyway, it is very nice of him to give me this pose:

Attached Image:

Rainbow I



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And here are two of the rainbows, side by side. I would assume that the one with the larger hump is superior to the one in the back, right?

These fish (the rainbows) are the most active in the tank and are constantly busy chasing each other and showing off to each other.

Attached Image:

Rainbow II



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is my female Pearl Gourami. She holds the number two spot in the tank, at least when it comes to respect by the other fish. She is also less shy then her mate.

You can also see a few of the very healthy duck weed with roots on the left.

Attached Image:

Female Pearl



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And here is the king of the castle, the male Pearl. Nobody questions his authority and I am sure that his size alone gives him this respect. He is pretty much at least 3 times the lenght of most Espei. If the other fish would take a closer look when he behaves like a chicken (for example during water change) then they may change their mind and try to take dominance in their own hand .

Attached Image:

Male Pearl



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Enough about the fish in the tank, let's move on to the plants and the tank overall.

Here is a look at the Wisteria on the right after the water change. I was very tempted to thin it out already and use the clippings on the left side, but I rather wait one more week to have a fuller and healthier growth first.

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Wisteria Lawn



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And here is a look at the left side of the tank, the one that needs improvement/filling the most. I had no chance this week to go to the LFS and see if they have any Wisteria that I could plant there to fill in the empty gravel, maybe this week will be better.

Attached Image:

Left Side



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Many, Many More Pictures Are At The Bottom Of The Previous Page

As we all know, my tank is not known for pearling

But this weekend, after the water change, the tank pearled for hours. I know, I know, that is not something all that special, but even this has not happend in this tank for quite some time (many months).

Must be the Jersey water that has changed, .

Here is the Star Grass with its pearls:

Attached Image:

Pearling



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a closer look at the tops of the Alternanthera Group. I had to trim away a few leaves that had a rim of BBA on them, still from the previous setup. In the past, most of these stems were spread out throughout the tank and actually did not receive the light (and respect) they need to shine:

Attached Image:

Alternanthera



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Right next to them (actually on the left),completing the center group of the island, are the Ludwigia peruensis's. So far, all stems still develop new leaves at the double per node.

Matty - If I understand the statement that you made about this plant a while back, then this should either change to single leaf per node or I actually have Ludwigia peruensis, which - by your statement - is not an aquatic plant.

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Ludwigia peruensis



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ok,

The last 4 shots are of the full tank and/or the full island.

Here again is the tank from last week, shortly after the Little_Fish style makeover:

Attached Image:

Last Week



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And here is the tank this weekend.

The plants that I noticed as having grown the most are the Wisteria on the right, the Pearl Grass in the back left off the island, and the Star Grass ring on the island border.

What a surprise

Attached Image:

Week 57 - Now



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a closer look just at the main island. I have to admit that this so far is my favorite setup of this tank and I hope that I will not regret the recent makeover and ligthing duration changes. So far, so good, I will keep my thumbs crossed.

Attached Image:

Island I



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And here is (already) the last shot, the main island in a more Matty-Style angle. Matty - I hope you are proud of yourself as you most certainly can take all the credit for any shot taken in these angles

I have to say that in this angle the island looks almost like a bird's nest

I am looking forward to the red plants growing just a little more to really fill in, in particular in height.

That's it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Island - Matty Style



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 14:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,

Your tank looks pretty nice! I like the lay out with all the Anubias on the DW. That works really well for me. Things seem to be filling out quite well. The left side is a bit thin but you will soon have plenty of westeria to fill in the gaps.

Your rainbows are looking really good. I really love mine when I had them but for some reason they didn't do well. I am glad you have had pretty good luck with yours.



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Post InfoPosted 29-Oct-2006 15:07Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Matty - If I understand the statement that you made about this plant a while back, then this should either change to single leaf per node or I actually have Ludwigia peruensis, which - by your statement - is not an aquatic plant.


If it doesn't end up with one leaf per node, then I have no idea what it is. The terrestrial plant I've seen in pics is very large and looks nothing like our aquatic plant. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. I just meant to say that ludwigia peruensis is usually a false name for ludwigia glandulosa - but a name which is correct for a terrestrial plant.

Matty - I hope you are proud of yourself as you most certainly can take all the credit for any shot taken in these angles


I can't take credit, I didn't take the pic!. I'm glad I could make an impact on the angles you take your pics though. It's rare when people actually look at a tank from that dead on angle, so it's hard to get a feel for what your tank really looks like. Nice pics



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Thanks guys for the input and comments on tank and pictures.

Wings - none of my anubias are planted/tied on the driftwood, they are are stuck into the substrate. Of course I made sure the rhizome is above the substrate, so don't worry
The Mother Barteri is shooting out about 3 new leaves every 2 to 3 weeks, I hope that it doesn't grow too big too soon.

Matty - Of course you can take credit, you made me do it In the same way, NowherMan6 can take credit for my pictures as he was my lens consultant

Ingo


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Hah,

I am glad that I am able to post the following picture. As you may know, one Oto went MIA during last weekend's makeover and spent about at least 1.5h in an empty sink (where I placed the DW before cutting it).

So, given that I overall had 6 Otos before, and that I added him/her back in and he/she swam away, and that I have not been able to count them all any time since, here they are

Ingo

Attached Image:



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Man look at how clean that filter intake is. Makes me want to take mine out and bleach it or something.



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Your Alternanthera Group is just stunning & I'm really liking the island setup.

Great shot of your otos - pretty cool to get them altogether like that.

Cheers
TW
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Thanks, you two

Matty - This is the intake of the newer filter, the one I added rather recently (maybe 6 weeks back, I don't remember). I will try to get a shot of the other one which is more in line with yours, I guess

Robyn - Yeah, it took me two hours until I had all 6 of them herded onto the clean filter intake and heater

Ingo


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It's a classic case of "less is more" your no longer concerned with the confines of the tank where your putting a tall plant in the corner to cover the filter tubes, heater. etc. The Island looks even more impressive close-up. Nice tight groups, good constrast and manageable. If I had to nitpick (some things never change) it would be the anubias in the front is too lined up.

Are you considering changing the tubes, heater to all black so they fade into the background? With two filters on the tank that powerhead is also an unnecessary distraction IMO.

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I think tetratech went colorblind during his absence. LF's background is blue and his heaters are black.

I think LF is also using that powerhead to throw CO2 bubbles out to the other side of the tank and get more saturation.



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If I had to nitpick ...
Of course you have to

And it is always welcome, tetratech. Does that mean your bet is over and you won, or what? What are you getting out of this again? Ah yeah, a new tank

Anyway - Just a few posts earlier (or a few pages earlier) I mentioned that I may play with the background for a while. This means that any colors of heater and what not will have to wait. Also, yes - as Matty said - the powerhead is for the CO2. My way of dispersal in a 6 foot tank.

I have to see about the Anubias and a few other plants in the future, for now I am just glad that I got an environment that allows me to play with it without having to do a major overhaul.

Ingo


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I went to the LFS after work and bought 3 bunches of Wisteria, each having 3 stems and being about 6 to 10 inches long (they also has a pair of Apist Cacs "Double Red", but I resisted).

Once home, I proceeded to trim the stems. For one thing, I would like to keep the growth low, so 6 inches is not good. I made two sections out of each stem, the top and the next element down, which gave me 18 pieces overall. That was enough to cover the part of the left side that was still open.

Here is that area:

Attached Image:

New Wisteria



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This shot, of the female Apisto exploring if there is any food in the wistera, shows the very finely structured leaves of this growth:

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Apisto Looking For Food



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In comparison, here is my Wisteria from the right side of the tank. As you can see, most leaves are much broader that the new ones. Is that because of less light intensity? I need to consult the Wisteria Whipper

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Existing Wisteria On Right Tank Side



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And just for completion, here is the whole tank again. Now it is getting harder to avoid any glare in the pictures as the Wisteria is highl reflective of the tank light.

That's it for now,

Have Fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Full Tank



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As you can see, most leaves are much broader that the new ones. Is that because of less light intensity?

I think it has to do with light. More light the thinner the leaves. Less light the wider they get.

The wisteria in the last picture sure is bright. You should ask tetra how he does it!



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Since you just bought it, I'd tend to think the thin leaves might be an emersed growth form(as most plants are grown emersed at farms to avoid the algae problem and to max light and growth using sunlight). I've also seen very large leaves come into the store too.

I guess that's why they call it hygro difformis. Very tough to tell what does what to this plant.



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Ah, I have never thought of the possibility that Wisteria is grown emersed. The stems seem way to fragile to support the plant weight out of the water. Not because they are so thin but because they seem to easily break when bent (at least the main stem of an upright growing plant).

Interesting, so much still to learn,

Ingo


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 58

The week was rather eventless, with the exception of the addition of more Wisteria on Monday.

So here is a quick look at some stuff

The morning before the water change, when the tank was still dark, I had a chance to take a peek as the light on 29G next to it goes on first. I know that plants close shop when they have enough light and at night as well, but I did not know that this applies to Wisteria as well:

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Wisteria Closed At Night



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Here is the Pearl Grass before trimming. It has grown very nicely and I could use the extra plants for the 40G. It is now pretty much as tall as it was two weeks ago and I was able to harvest 9 smaller bunches:

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Pearl Grass



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Also, for the very first time ever I really cleaned the filter (the bigger older one). I removed even the content of the individual trays and rinsed them in tank water as can be seen here.

Left is the bio layers and right the mech stuff:

Attached Image:

Cleaning Time



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And, for comparison, here is the tank two weeks ago after this setup had been created. As you can see, it is still quite empty:

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Two Weeks Ago



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And here is the tank earlier today. Not only does one notice the addition of the wisteria, but also some healthy growth in the Star Grass, Alternanthera, and Ludwigia groups. Also, the mother barteri developed quite a few new leaves.

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Tank Now



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Nevertheless, not all is rosy. There is again some BBA, in particular on some leaves of the Alternanthera, Java Fern, and Anubias (just some leaves on that whole group). I am considering an Excel treatment.

Here is a closer look at the island:

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Island



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Here is a closer look at the Wisteria group on the left side of the tank. The front section is the addition from last Monday. That should be rather obvious though as I never had this growth form in any of my tanks:

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Wisteria



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The Tenellus field behind it is still pretty messy, but I clearly see the development of submersed leaves and a few runners. I will give it some more time and then decide what to do with it in the first place. I am considering to replace the star grass with the crypts from the way left and make the whole area around the island wisteria (a la tetratech).

Attached Image:

Tenellus



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And here is an add-on:

I went to the LFS this afternoon and got some fishies (see 40G Log ). While I was there I picked up another 6 bunches of Wisteria. It wasn't in super shape, so I only could use the top most section of each stem (unlike last Monday when I divided each stem into two reusable pieces).

I planted then in front of the Island and now have to left almost connected to the right. Almost there

That's it, have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

New Wisteria From Today



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Tank looks amazing Ingo. I was a bit surprised when you chose to steer clear of the Amano style. When you mentioned an "island" setup, I was expecting exactly what you have in the middle, but a clear cut line surrounding it of bare gravel. Hell, I would have bet sand would have made an appearance with this layour, at least in the foreground. But it looks killer either way. I'm thoroughly impressed!


Nice seeing you today, btw.
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Well thanks Mike,

I appreciate the compliment

Yeah, it was nice seeing you today at the LFS and I am glad it motivated you to peek into my logs (responsive that is, as I know you do it as a reader only anyway).

Yeah, anything more than I did in this current redo would basically have meant to start all over again as I would have had to get rid of my well bacterialized gravel. So, that's as good as it gets

Ingo


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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Looks good LF, especially the tenellus(gosh I like that plant). It looks as if you're getting pretty good growth overall, should be fun to watch the tank continue to grow in. How's the ludwigia turning out? I'm really curious to see if that turns out to be the same as mine, or what else it could be if it doesn't.

I don't really have anything to nit-pick about. I like the setup, just needs time to fill in.

That's some nasty media BTW.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
I don't really have anything to nit-pick about.

Well I do! That last pic is really beautiful!

My Scapes
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So - where is the nitpicking, tetratech ? I know there is much that can be done better, but I had to start somewhere. I think that this setup will allow me to play around with much less ecological interference. Thanks for the compliment on the last shot.

Matty - You sure like tenellus, don't you . The ludwigia is still growing in the same style, aka two leaves per node. Maybe the grand master of plants, aka Bensaf, could take a look and let us know what he thinks . And yes, the media was really . Maybe in about two weeks I should have the other filter undergoing the same treatment.

Ingo


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LF,

If you are doing major up rooting fairly often then you are probobly releasing tons of junk from the gravel. This stuff ends up right in your filter. Therefore its probably a good idea to keep them cleaned more often.

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Ingo,

Looking at those nice pics, I forgot to ask. Are you seeing an abatement of your algae issues. I didn't see any "real" issues even from the closeup shot.

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Thanks guys for input and question,

Tetratech - right now I don't have a huge algae issue to report, but I see a ring of BBA around sicklish leaves on the Anubias and Alternanthera, and on the edges of leaves on the NL Fern, but they may have gotten damaged during the redo as well. Otherwise, only a little hair algae is growing on the glass, but not bad at all. I will try to give you an even closer look so one can see the problem

Wings - you, that's it, the redo will do that. But I decided to not mess with the filters right when I did the redo as I had upset the biofilter enough as it was. That's why I am doing it now, one filter at a time.

Ingo


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that's it, the redo will do that. But I decided to not mess with the filters right when I did the redo as I had upset the biofilter enough as it was. That's why I am doing it now, one filter at a time.
I am with you.

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So,

Just to show you that not all is shiny shiny, here are two of the plants that have BBA problems (I couldn't get a good one of the Alternanthera).

Here is a leave of the Mother Barteri plant. Just a few leaves have algae:

Attached Image:

Anubias Barteri BBA



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And here is the Narrow Leaf Java Fern. Again, only a few leaves look like this, and I believe to identify that they are damages further down on the leaf.

That's it,

Ingo

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NL Java Fern BBA



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i had a BBA problem but my pearl gouramis ate it all.
i wonder why tours havnt eaten any of yours?
BTW my male pearl is almost full grown now, hes chest is a deap red orange, his dorsal & analfins stretch way past his tail fin and he has the most amazing turquise and olive green iridescences.
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coop,

I wasn't aware that Pearls are BBA eaters, I for sure haven't seen mine even touching it.

About 6 to 4 months ago, my male seemed well on the way to receive his orange underbelly, but now it seems more like he is moving backwards in the coloration department, except for the turquise and olive green iridescences on his finnage. It may have to do with the fact that there is 0 chance for breeding in this tank as the current would wash away any bubble nest. So he may think: "Why bother with all the color if I cannot use it anyway"

Ingo


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I am loving your new island look. All is looking pretty slick. Like Matty, I'm a recent fan of Tenellus. Is there more that one form of tenellus? Mine look taller than yours, but so far they are all I've found. How tall would you say yours grow?

I agree with not cleaning out both filters at once. In fact, I have never done a 100% filter media clean. But for you, 100% cleaning of one filter = only a 50% clean, as you still have another filter to go. I would wait 3-4 weeks before you clean the 2nd filter, to allow the cleaned media to grow a new colony of bacteria.

Anyway, all is looking great

Cheers
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your male pearl has a beter body shape than mine, mine has a more bulldog face too.
id say its colour is becauase of the current as my tank has 2 smaller HOB filters at each end. one is soruonded by a lot of wisteria where as the other has a big clump of sggitaria stimulatus in front of it, this makes the water surface in the middle of the tank fairly still which allows him to build his nest(wich is then purposely destroyed by my male blue ram).
i guess it makes him a fair bit more agressive. he is king of the tank except when it comes to the male german blue ram; about half the size of the pearl but twice as aggressive(i originally had 2 pairs of GBR's, because of the male GBR its now only 1 pair).
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coop - Yeah, my male Pearl is the king of the tank as well, not even my male Apisto truly challenges him. This comes as a surprise to me though as the male pearl is also one of the biggest chickens in the tank as soon as an "outsider" appears (meaning a person). By now he has figured out that me standing next to the tank is not harmful, but he darts into hiding as soon as another person comes closer. Not to mention that you cannot find him once my hand penetrates the water (maintenance stuff). I checked last night on his coloration and yeah, there is not one bit of orange left.

Robyn, yeah - there are at least two forms of tenellus, but the other one is actually smaller with thinner leaves that are turning a reddish color in bright light. Amano uses that one quite often and I once got a tiny plant by accident (didn't grow for me).
About the filter cleaning: I don't believe I destroyed the bacteria in the filter completely as I rinsed the media in tank water. Sure, whatever was on the filter walls and media baskets is gone, but the surface of the media itself should have contained most of it anyway.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 11:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
coop
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yeah mines a real chicken when it comes to "outsiders" and matenence. i recently gave my tank a complete makeover and the whole timt he was flapping around in the back corner. strangly though he eats algea wafers out of my hand
Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 10:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Those buckets of dirty water got me thinking. Still having BBA issues ...hmmmmmm.

I think it's pretty much been shown that BBA is reliant on carbon to thrive. Organics produce carbon,in a form difficult for planys to access but somewhat easier for algae specifically BBA. A dirty tank will produce algae.

I'm surprised you've gone that long between cleaning filters. For some reason I always clean my canister every 4-6 weeks. By clean I mean I totally dump the wool media , clean the can but don't touch the bio stuff (ceramic rings/efisubstrat). I've always done it this way, no particular reason just habit. The likes of Tom BArr are always stating the importance of keeping tank and filter "clean" - maybe that's where I picked it up.

Wondering if the amount of organics in an old "dirtier" filter is helping the BBA?

Class discussion ?


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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 13:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Organics produce carbon,in a form difficult for planys to access but somewhat easier for algae specifically BBA.


Can you explain this a little more, if you can?

And if it thrives on carbon produced by organics, then why is it said that LOW carbon causes BBA, as opposed to an organic form?

I always thought of it being more of a steady C vs. fluctuating C issue.


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I always thought of it being more of a steady C vs. fluctuating C issue.
Maybe the organic form is a fluctuating one?

Come to think of it. I was having some aglae issues a while back. I think I cleaned out my filter and it went away. I was having issues with staghorn though. Which is one of two, the other being GS, that I get in my tank.

Now if the filter is good and dirty is the bio filter working at top production?

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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 14:45Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wondering if the amount of organics in an old "dirtier" filter is helping the BBA?

IMO yes. Nothing works in a vaccum, everything is part of the whole. The more organics in the tank/filter the more you might have issues. If you have a tank that has no fish only plants, you could probably get by with doing an annual filter cleaning as opposed to one stocked with fish that would require monthly or bi-monthly.

Listening to the conversations here at Planted Aquaria the conversations are usually as much about fish as they are about plants. There's nothing wrong with that mindset, but it does bring about more algae issues. The amount of organics affects the amount of filtration, flow, co2, etc that one would need to maintain an algae-free tank.

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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 16:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'll agree, but can't say I'm a shining example of someone who keeps their filter clean. I get to it every couple months. At this rate I can't say I've ever noticed a correlation between algae before and after cleanings, but maybe I would if I let it go longer. IMO it's the same as the junk in the gravel bed or rotting leaves or anything else. If I could I'd gravel vac every week too.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 16:27Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Oooooooh, the grand master gave me the honor of a few words

Anyway, first things first:
coop - When I read your entry I had to laugh as feeding the Pearls is really like you describe, they eat out of your hand. Not only that, the way they open and close their mouths on the surface while eating looks to me like they are singing some song.

Some may have seen my picture of an old Espei a few weeks back. I did not see him anymore 3 days ago but then found him again 2 days ago, minus half his body Rest in peace old man, you were a proud father of many.

Now on to the filter cleaning:

Bensaf, you may have misunderstood:
By clean I mean I totally dump the wool media , clean the can but don't touch the bio stuff
I do that too, it was just the first time that I even cleaned out the media baskets. As mine are stuffed with media there is always something left behind when not removing from the baskets. And this gunk is also partially based on the redo two weeks earlier.

Nevertheless, I agree, dirty media can, and probably does, have something to do with the algae. But like all the others, please elaborate on the carbon culprit.

Thanks in advance,

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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
Plants can extract the Carbon from organic compounds.
The problem is how tightly the element, Carbon, is bound
into the compound. An organic chemist, I am not, but I
do know that some molecules hang onto the elements that
make up that molecule more tightly than others.

The CO2 gas that we inject into our tanks is the easiest
for plants to extract the Carbon from. It requires less
energy from the plant and is why plants seem to "take off"
when we start using injected CO2.

It is the same with other elements that plants need.
Fe for instance as well as the trace elements. They
need to be introduced into the aquarium in the form
that is beneficial for plants, other wise they build up
to possibly toxic levels or precipitate out.

This is discussed extensively in Diana's book,
The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 16:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
And if it thrives on carbon produced by organics, then why is it said that LOW carbon causes BBA, as opposed to an organic form?


Frank pretty much nailed how organics produce carbon.

But lets clear one thing up. Low Co2 in and of itself is not a cause of BBA. Fluctuating carbon levels will. In a non Co2 injected tank one of the best methods to avoid algae is to avoid water changes or actually, to avoid putting in sudden short doses of Co2 (from tap water) which will benefit algae more then plants. In an injected tank relatively high and stable is the way to go.

In an injected tank the plants are getting there carbon easily and readily in the quantities they need. A lot of "dirt" will produce carbon that may only benefit algae.As Frank mentioned the carbon is not Co2, more in the way of carbonate molecules. The plants simply won't be bothered stripping down the molecules when it already has all their carbon needs readily available. But BBA is built to access carbon in just that way.

I pull tanks up completely every year as I've noticed that things tend to go downhill at bit at that stage. They look dirty and old. No matter how fastidious you are you can't get everything at the regular water changes - things get under the wood and rocks etc.

The only tank I've never had BBA in (or any other form for that matter) is the small non Co2 low light desktop tank. It really is a method that truly seems foolproof and is the reason why I'd never bother with more then one hight light Co2 tank. Need the patience of a saint though - it grows very very very slowly and the plants stay much smaller,

Don't get me wrong , not saying Ingo has a filthy tank or anything. I could be going overboard but I've never let the canister go more then 6 weeks without a cleaning.


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Post InfoPosted 12-Nov-2006 16:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I pull tanks up completely every year as I've noticed that things tend to go downhill at bit at that stage. They look dirty and old. No matter how fastidious you are you can't get everything at the regular water changes - things get under the wood and rocks etc.


That's an acurate statement. Everything is relative to this buildup. A year could probably be stretched to 18 months if your really anal about things(feeding,fishload, water changes, filter cleaning) or can be shortened if your very overstocked, etc. I notice some BBA on some of the eco which was never there before. It's not a big issue but it's there. That's why I'm also pushing the low ishload, low feeding thing, because this will buy you more time before things get real bad. The majority of aquarist feed and stock too much not to have some algae issues in hi-light planted tanks. I want to repeat something. It's not that they are overstocked or overfeeding in general terms, but they are when it comes to controlling algae in planted aquaria.

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Well thanks guys for the detailed inputs on carbon and BBA. I guess I will have to clean my filters more often the, right (as a reduced fish load is not an option ).

On with the show, I got loads of pictures and no time.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 59

To start off, here is the tank 3 weeks ago when it was set up in this layout:

Attached Image:

3 Weeks Ago



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And here is the tank now, with a few additions of Wisteria and some growth.

I think it still looks pretty, but some pruning is needed. I just didn't have the time for that this weekend and also I don't know what I would like to change yet.

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Tank Today



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Now I would like to show you how the tank looks when I have only the second row of lights with 5,500K on. Doesn't it look much greener? I am considering of switching to the 10,000K that I have:

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With 5,500K Only



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Here is a closeup of the Pearl Grass right afte water change. As you can see, it really pearls , but somehow it does not really look like grass though

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Pearl Grass



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My Excel Treatment that I started this week to fight off the existing BBA is showing effects, the algae is beginning to turn red or pale, as can be seen in this closeup of an leaf of the NL Java Fern.

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BBA Dying



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For Matty, a 4 picture special

Maybe Bensaf wants to chime in, that would be nice.

Here is one of two shots showing the current growth of the Ludwigia Peruensis. This one is closer to the bottom of the tank and a small sprout.

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LP new Growth I



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And here is one from the tallest of them in the tank. As you may see, the gap between the nodes is really small and there are still two leaves per node. Also, it has gotten much redder. The beginning of the new growth section can be easily identified:

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LP new Growth II



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Then I looked at the plant right next to it, my Alternanthera. Doesn't that plant look very similar? I wonder if I have some form of Alternanthera there!

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Alternanthera I



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One of the differences is that the gap between the nodes seem larger than on the LR, although they are at equal height in the tank.

The LR also appears to have shorter new leaves, actually it seems a little stunted. Maybe I should add more K, but I for sure beefed up the micros from 20ml to 30ml as of today.

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Alternanthera II



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The Star Grass in the tank is still growing strong, but I don't think it is right for the spot that it is at. Its stem is too weak and it gets blown heavily to its side by the current in the tank.

Here is one of the more stable parts of it as the current in that section isn't all that strong:

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Star Grass



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Here is the weakest section of the tank, at least in my opinion. The whole left side needs something, and I believe it needs less of a plant mish-mash. Maybe all should be wisteria for now and later I could add some highlights to it. I could use the crypts as a border section in the Island, but the tenellus would have to move to other tanks.

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Left Section



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On to some fish shots:

Whenever I enter the basement and it is evening I get to see this. OK, the female Apisto is there only sometimes, but the Rainbows for sure are waiting for food as this is the spot where I feed the tank.

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Rainbows I



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Once they realize that I am only there to hold this black thingy (camera) in front of my face they tend to peruse the tank some more. Here they are on the other end of the tank.

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Rainbows II



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My Apistos are always up for a nice photo, and they seem to enjoy beeing the center of my attention.

Here is the female staring at me like "Are we done yet?"

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Female Apisto I



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After a while she had enough and starts to swim off, on to finding some food in the tank.

These days she is wearing her bright yellow wedding dress only on rare occasions, maybe 3 days out of 7

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Female Apisto II



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Make Sure You Look At The Pictures On The Previous Page That Start This Weeks Update



Here is the male Apisto swimming through the bubbles of the CO2 output.

It seems to me as if he is eyeballing the Espei in the bottom right corner. I wouldn't be too surprised if he got a tast for them by now, given that it was he whom I found eating the dead (old) Espei during this week:

Attached Image:

Male Apisto I



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The male Apisto (and his girl) are the least shy fish in the tank. Whenever I put my finger on the glass all other fish first swim away (and may or may not come back), but he doesn't seem to be worried at all. Actually I think he likes the attention:

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Male Apisto II



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Just to show off his nice colors again, here he is from the full side.

He is just as handsome as ever

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Male Apisto III



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Ok,

On to some off-shots, more in line with the things Matty likes, but maybe the others will enjoy them as well.

Here you can see how full my tank is

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Small Gap Left



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And here is a look accross the length of the tank, from the left side to the right.

Last week I filled up the tank (by mistake) so much that the duck weed got stuck at the crossbars.

Attached Image:

Surface Movement



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And here is a look at the tank from the left side, showing more the frontal section. Most of my sideshots are guesswork as I don't really have the space to squeeze my head behind the camera for that angle:

Attached Image:

Tank From Left



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And here is a look into the tank from the right side. This spot is even tighter and I barely can hold the camera in my hand into an almost proper angle.

Sorry if they are not the greatest pictures.

Attached Image:

From Right Side



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The last 3 pictures are of the main island. Here is the first from a slight angle when standing closer to the left side of the tank:

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Main Island I



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And here is a look at the island from a slight angle to the right. I like how the Espei tend to peruse along the front edge of the island, they go very well with the color theme

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Main Island II



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And here is a head on, but angled down, shot of the island. I know it needs some work, at least the Star Grass needs trimming.

As you can see, I have closed the frontal gap between left and right and now the island is surrounded.

That is it for today,

Have fun,

Ingo

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Main Island III



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Neet shots there LF. I can't say that I know for sure what red plant you have there. I'm not sure. It's nice whatever it is. My ludwigia gets those crinkled leaves on the new growth when I don't dose a bit of calcium at waterchanges. I'm not sure why that is, I have hard water, and would think I had plenty of calcium, but it's at least something to go on.

I really enjoyed the shots from the side, that was a cool angle we haven't seen much before. It really helps get the 3D feel for the tank. The shot of the center group with the espei was particularly nice as well.

I've decided recently that I can't handle floating plant. I ended up ripping out my water lettuce. It kept floating to the front corner that didn't get light enough for them anyways. I applaud you for keeping some duckweed in there for the fish. That shot also showed me how well your tank was levelled when you set it up .

I'd say that something like a rock or non green plant would look good in the open area, but it sounds like you already had something like that in mind. I agree though, it could be a bit better on that side, maybe simpler would be better, maybe not. At least it's something easy to play with, just don't kill those tenellus movin' them around too much or I'll come after you....I know where you live.



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Have to say the tank is looking better then then ever.

Probably because it has more order and tighter groupings.

One minor quibble, I'd tighten up the red plant grouping a bit and pick just one species ( personally I prefer the Reineckii, the Ludwigia can be a pain to grow). Red beside red doesnit work and they slightly different shape of both makes it look untidy.

Nut the island formation looks good amd the tank finally has a distinct look rather then a mish mash


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Bensaf,

Before I race off to work, can you tell me what kind of plant you think this "Ludwigia" is. It was sold as peruensis, but Matty thinks otherwise and I have no idea.

I will comment on your entries more later,

Off to the races,

Ingo


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Well,

I guess I missed Bensaf's presents here at FP by about 5 min . He will never let us know what plant I have there

Anyway, on with some comments:

Matty - Yeah, crinkled leaves and calcium, I thought about that. But I am adding already one tsp of Equilibrium weekly so I do not want to make the water any harder. Instead, I hope that upping the micros will help out. You may remember that I used to feed 50ml dosages of TMG, but with the new stuff I went to 20ml, as instructions from Tropica suggest. Now, with 30ml, I should see some changes, hopefully not in the amount of algae

About the leveling: well, I have to give credit for an almost even concrete floor, but thanks anyway. Overall, the tank is a little higher on the right than on the left, maybe a difference of 1/3 to 1/2 an inch.

Also, I will not try to kill the Tenellus, I promise . And yeah, the left side will undergo slooooow changes. For the first time in quite a while I look at the tasks at hand with excitement and not as a necessity.

Bensaf - Thank you so much, very nice of you to give me (or my tank) such praise. With regards to the Ludwigia, I assume you identified the plant then, right ? What makes it so hard to grow? Does it have specific requirements in nutrients, like loads of Iron or something like that? In either case, I will keep your words of mixing these plants in mind when I have enough of them (Alternanthera) to fill in the whole area.

Thanks for the input,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 13-Nov-2006 14:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
I could use the crypts as a border section in the Island,
I think that is a really good idea. Then maybe a rock or something coming out of the wisteria would look nice as Matty has said.

Overall your tank is looking quite nice. I like the shots from the side too!

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 13-Nov-2006 15:20Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
I throughly enjoyed the photo tour. It's no wonder that
the high point of the dollar two ninty eight tour of the
house begins and ends in the fishroom!

As far as the lighting is concerned, the tank (to me)
does not seem "greener" with the 5500K lights so much
as the light seems "yellower." It is lower in K and
will tend to the yellow, and then the red end of the
spectrum. While the 10,000k seems so bright that it
starts to "washout" the green colors. That's why I,
personally prefer the 6700-8800K bulbs.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 14-Nov-2006 01:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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About the ludwigia, I didn't recognise the name 'til I found out it was another name for glandulosa. It needs a lot of light to look it's best which should be a deep purple. It's also very picky about nutrients, any slight shortage and it stops.Like most Ludwigia's it can decide just to melt away when trimmed.

When it's a deep purple it's too strong and distracting and is best as an accent.

I don't like the way it grows -straight up , never branches- the bottom leaves drop easily and it lloks like an umbrella. If it's not the deep purple there are lots of other plants that are better looking and easier to grow - like the Altherena. So why bother ?

I wasn't sure it LP you had from the pics but the close up show the leaves seem to be in groups of threes at the node which is typical for this plant. Kind of a star formation, so it probably is the ludwigia.


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Post InfoPosted 14-Nov-2006 15:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
illustrae
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Wow Ingo, I havn't looked at this thread in a few weeks, and my how it's changed.
I absolutely love the island! All that anubias with the lush sections of Alteranthera, pealgrass (something I've never had any luck with, and I'm envious) and still the ever-present stargrass looks absolutely great.
However, you have an awful long tank, and I agree that the sides need something... I wish I could help you with what that something may be

It's hard to believe based on your pictures that you have an algae problem. I'm battling algae in my planted right now, too, and I have to say that your trials have helped me out a great deal.

The dwarf rainbows are amazing! They've grown so much, getting that deep-bodied look of mature rainbows.

A question that was probably answered way back when, but just occurred to me is do you keep the tank covered at all? Do you have a canopy, or plain glass covers, or anything on this tank? If not, do you have a problem with jumpers? I know that I ocassionally find tetras and rasboras dried up on my floor just from leaving the lid slightly open on my tanks, and was wondering if that ever happens to you.

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...
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Ok,

Thanks for all of the entries, here are my responses in order of entry:

Wings - Right now the tank gives me more options that I can even think off, and I can think off quite a few . Albeit I haven't made any changes yet, I am looking forward to some playtime in the tank. This is a fist in a loooooong time.

Frank - You are right, it is more yellow than green . I have the 6,700K as my all-day lights and turn the others on only for mid-day-lights. I may switch them to the 10,000K lights that I have lying around though, just for the fun of it.

Bensaf - Thanks a lot, my friend. I will have to do more research on the LRs, but from what you describe and from what I observe in the tank (stunting) it strongly appears as if you are right on. What else would I have expected anyway ?

illustrae - Thank you very much for stopping by and making an entry, I appreciate it . I am glad that my trials (and errors ) have helped you out, better learning from somebody else's mistakes than making them yourself .

Yes, I do have 3 glass panels on top of my tank, no canopy though. I like the glass/elevated lighting unit look, it has some high tech flavor to it. I have no doubt that the rainbows and pearls would already have been on the floor if I didn't.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 15-Nov-2006 15:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
coop
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EditedEdited by coop
i love your apistos, i want them so bad but the LFS only get cockatoo apistos and apistogramma borelli, dont like them.

Post InfoPosted 16-Nov-2006 08:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
"A couple of THOUSAND gallons?" Now those pictures
I'd love to see!!
Has he posted them anywhere?
Frank


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Post InfoPosted 16-Nov-2006 08:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by coop
firstly he is 84 and doesnt know how to use a computer, the net or a digital camera.none of wich does he have. its actaly 1 thousad gallons with angels and discus. and secondly i only see it about once a year(when get to see him)
and finally it will be sold by this christmas for $10,000 or there abouts
so i will try and get or find a photo by then. if not
(sorry about the edit on the post above, people will think we're crazy coz of that. i couldnt sell the pearls, they're to buetiful, instead m getting another female and a powerhead with a spray bar to try and stop aggression.)
Post InfoPosted 16-Nov-2006 10:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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OK,

I don't know what the two of you (Frank and coop) were talking about , but fine with me. Coop, more apisto shots are on the way further down.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 60

It was a busy week for me and as such I did not have a lot of time to care for the tank. All had to be done this weekend and now I am in a mad dash to get the Update in before other duties call me away again. I will respond to all your threads during the week, I promise

Here is the tank before the water change and fixes:

Attached Image:

Before Water Change



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LITTLE_FISH
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As you can see, the star grass has grown way too tall by now, and the alternanthera is pretty much reaching the top. Also, note the green layer on top. My tank must have seen great growth during this week, or at least the duckweed did. Here is a look at the top where the duckweed forms a solid and non-moving carpet in the middle section of the tank. Not good for the plants below:

Attached Image:

Darn Duckweed



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LITTLE_FISH
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And here is the tank after maintenance and water change.

Some things have changes, a few of which will be shown later. Here, I would like to mention that all crypts have been moved either to the island or to the 40G.

Attached Image:

Tank Now



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LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
PLEASE LOOK AT THE FULL TANK SHOT ON BOTTOM OF LAST PAGE

The fish, BTW, are not swimming on the surface because of the CO2, but this shot was taken when it was feeding time.

Here is a closer look at the new left side. All is now wisteria with the exception of a group of Blyxa that I got from a local planted tank friend. It is huge, compared to the one in the 40, although he is the source for that one as well. I hope this one will keep in shape.

Attached Image:

Left Side



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LITTLE_FISH
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One more plant picture, then I will show some fishies. The Star Grass in this shot almost didn't make it back in the tank. I intended to replace it with pearl grass, but that plant is way too "bendy" for the current in that area. Also, its leaves are a little too small to make for a good mid-level plant in the island.

Bensaf - I don't think that Ludwigia is grandulosa as I still have new growth with only 2 leaves per node. All other things you describe fit though, picky about ferts and loss of lower leaves.

In the end, I kept some star grass, here it is:

Attached Image:

Star Grass



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DeletedPosted 20-Nov-2006 03:31
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LITTLE_FISH
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On to some fish.

The ones that worry me these days are the Espei. You may remember that I talked about the old one that died, well - now another one died and he may have been old too. And so is another one that is still alive, but seems to go the same way. But then there is also this one, he will be dead within this week. He seems much smaller and really really skinny, not like the other ones that live and died so far.

I hope there is nothing going around.

Attached Image:

Skinny Sick Espei



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LITTLE_FISH
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Either my computer is giving up or FP has issues, I just did a double post for no reason and it seems to be really slow in responding.

Anyway:

Here is the male pearl, followed by the female. He has some nicer color these days.

Attached Image:

Pearls



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And here is a closer look at one of my Rainbows. They play "who is the boss" all day long. I am sure they can participate at the Olympics with all this racing training they get in a 6 foot tank

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Rainbow



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LITTLE_FISH
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On to the Apistos, for coop and all others that may care.

Here is the female, looking pretty in her wedding dress. The reason why she is colored up is because the male is near by and clearly in the mood for some fry making

Attached Image:

Female Apisto



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And here is the man we were talking about, the male Apisto. I always tend to show shots of the full fish, but I thought I might try a closeup to give you more details about him.

Good idea?

Attached Image:

Male Apisto I



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And here he is again, in this last shot for tonight. Here he has his fins standing out as the female is near and he needs to show that he is in good shape. And he sure is !!!

And that's it for tonight, hope you like it,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Male Apisto II



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Post InfoPosted 20-Nov-2006 03:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Your apisto girl chose a very nice wedding dress indeed. Very pretty. I hope she is able to tempt her groom and has more sucess than my nigrerian red girl. She is trying very hard to tempt, with little response from her intended groom.

Looks like you've had a lot of growth & the wisteria has really grown in. I take it you removed some of the duckweed to let in more light?



Cheers
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Post InfoPosted 20-Nov-2006 03:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Wow, LF that first shot of the male close up is so focused that you can see the cephalic pores on it's head. Nice

I have to say that I disagree with bensaf on the ludwigia glandulosa. In your tank by now it should be deep red top and bottom with one leaf per node, not two. Ludwigia glandulosa may drop its leaves, which is common of high light demanding plants, but it's not picky about nutrients. If it were, there's no way it would be so red for me. Mine transformes rather quickly maybe in two or three weeks it was really deep red top to bottom, look at my tank log now to check out what it looks like. That's par for what I've seen on the web...some are even more purple.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Nov-2006 06:26Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
coop
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EditedEdited by coop
love em. beutiful fish. those rainbows are praecox right?
just wondering coz i want some for my next set up(once i get a bit more money) wich is actually gonna be a 35G paludarium(is actually ment to be a frog tank but im not really into frogs).

my 55g was nearly half filled with wisteria, but i removed all of it when i did a fuul makeover, didnt really like it but it works good in yours.


me and frank were talking about the first post that i edited, it said that i was gonna sell my pearlscoz of aggression(couldnt do it)and i had a brag about my granpas 1000gal that inspired me to try a SA theme.

good photographer LITTLE_FISH
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LF,

This tank looks quite empty after your trim job. Once again I will have to say that you need to find some rocks for this tank! A few stuck in the center mound and then some in the open space to give it some contrast and hight.

It seems you have taken some lessons from tetra on how to grow wisteria. Too bad he doesn't have the guts to show his tank off in the past couple of months.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 20-Nov-2006 17:55Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks folks for the input

Robyn, yeah the female wears a beautiful dress rather often and I think they have eggs rather often, but ACIDRAIN once mentioned to me that his viejita are lousy parents in the community tank, and so are mine.

Matty - I guess that means the Ludwigigia question is open then again. What if you don't have grandulosa either as bensaf mentioned 3 leaves per node?

Coop - yup, this are praecox, but I don't think they would be happy campers in a 35G paludarium. Too small, not enough water for a small school.

Wings - Slooow changes, young grasshopper (better than babe, right?) Maybe one I day I will add rocks, maybe not, time will tell. The base for a nice tank is set, all other things will take time.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Nov-2006 00:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Matty - I guess that means the Ludwigigia question is open then again. What if you don't have grandulosa either as bensaf mentioned 3 leaves per node?


That's why I said I didn't agree with Bensaf on the ID:

I have to say that I disagree with bensaf on the ludwigia glandulosa. In your tank by now it should be deep red top and bottom with one leaf per node, not two. Ludwigia glandulosa may drop its leaves, which is common of high light demanding plants, but it's not picky about nutrients.


Glandulosa for sure has only one leaf per node. Quick take a look here]http://www.aquahobby.com/garden/e_Ludwigia_glandulosa.php[/link], [link=here]http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/images/Onagraceae/Ludwigiaglandulosa.jpg[/link] and the second pic [link=here. They all stagger one leaf per node in a star shape upwards around the stem. I did a lot of lookingwhen I bought the plant to figure out what I had. Oh, and you won't find peruensis unless you are looking to buy a plant...for some reason dealers use a false name.



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Post InfoPosted 21-Nov-2006 03:19Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
coop
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oh, thats to bad(just adding that the tank is actualy 55 G but with 30-35gal worth of water in it.)
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Well Matty, time will tell what it is that I have in there. If I don't remove the plant first, that is
Did you see my entry in your tank log where I mention that maybe neither you nor I may have Amano Pearl Grass?

coop - Well, that may work for you then, 35G of water should allow you to have 6 of them and still give them some space to swim around. That would be a 4 foot tank, right?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Nov-2006 10:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
coop
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courrect, i might want to put a couple of golden panchax in now though. thats well in the future though, havnt even started the thing.

i think your tank looks heaps better now, more like professional aquascaping or sumthin.

i used to think my tank looked great but then i changed it around so that i have an island at each and of the tank and a space in the middle, looks heaps better now(still got crappy lookin driftwood but)
Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 09:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Coop,
so that i have an island at each and of the tank and a space in the middle
Hey, you should take a look at tetratech's log as he just has shown us the first picture of his new setup, with two islands and a space in the middle.

Can we get a link to a picture of your tank sometime?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 10:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
coop
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yeah thats the same kind of thing, but at eiver end of mine the plants reach the surfac and the gap in mine is less centred(more to the right)
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Once again coop,
Can we get a link to a picture of your tank sometime?



Your tank for sure sounds very interesting and I really would like to see a picture of it. Then we all can go and take it apart . Or steal some ideas

Just kidding, we will not rip it apart, of course.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by coop
yeah sure, but i need to get a new charger for my digital camera(i accidentally stamped on it and braoke it)

oi,my anubias nana has now got 3 flowers on it, lookin good!!
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my anubias nana has now got 3 flowers on it
On one rhizome? That beats my heavy flowering nanas and barteries easily. Now you really have to get a charger fast as I would really like to see a shot of that

Ingo


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EditedEdited by coop

yeah on one rhizome, i just had the best oppotunity for a great photo, but i couldnt take it

it was the male GBR dipping his head down to one of the flowers with the other two in the background, looked like a humming bird or sumthin. that gets me soooo angry !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


i was, just then, looking through this log(im bored)just randomly clicking on pages and i clicked on page 48 i think. position no.4 of the driftwood is exactly what i want in the right hand corner of my tank. where did you get that?LFS or self collected?
id have that crawling with nana's (not grandmas, anubias. damn im funny) from the one i have now.

i dont even have co2 in my tank either(cant get any co2 systems excepty for liquid co2, which can cause massive ph drops) im having a bit of a problem with plants, pretty sure its nitrate deficiency, 20ppm. some have yellowy brown dots on the leaves.

just wondering, what do you do for tank maitenance and what do you feed your fish?
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Coop,

Nice description of a photo that could have been

The driftwood that you describe from page 48, or something like that, does not exist in this form any more. Immediately after identifying how it should go in the tank I had to cut it into 2 pieces as it was too large even for a 125G. And now, with the last redo, I cut it down even further into many little branches that now border the island. I got this wood from EBay and payed way too much for it (). Somebody found it in some river down in Texas and sold it on the web, and the last minute bitting was a pure war of nerves. NowherMan6 was the person who pointed it out to me.

What do you mean with liquid CO2 and causing massive ph drops? Never heard of that. Do you know Flourish Excel? That is a liquid carbon solution and quite a few people use it to have C in their tank (like me, for my 2 low tech tanks). But it is of course more expensive (in the long run) than a CO2 system.

Your nitrates are 20ppm? That is not a deficiency at all, that is the desired level for planted tanks. BUT - only if all other nutrients are at their proper levels as well, and if one follows Tom Barr's Estimative Index (EI). Otherwise, the value would be considered high. Have a look at Chuck Gadd's Nutrient Deficiency list to see what may be wrong in your tank.

What do I feed my fish? Mostly, I would say 95%, flakes. The rest is the occasional treat of freeze dried foods like tubifex worms, bloodworms, brime shrimp, all small stuff.

So, that's enough for this entry,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 24-Nov-2006 11:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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No. 3000

Yeah!



Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 24-Nov-2006 11:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
coop
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on the liquid co2, i was talking on another forum about it and blackwater extract. someone told me that the liquid co2 causes your ph to drop...the same person who told me i have a nitrate deficiency and it should be around 30ppm. i hane a feeling they had no idea what they where talkin about.

Driftwood:yeah i noticed it was a bit chopped up now

but if that peice was about L 20" W 12" and H 16"
it would be perfect
did you treat it yourself? if so how?....... i cant get any good wood around hear so ill have to try and get some from down at my river.

do not know of flourish excell, ive only started proper aquascaping and planted tanks in the last 4 months or so(been in the hobby for about 2 years now) they sure beat my other bad looking tanks i started with.
i think its either manganese calcium or potassium in conjuction with hungry pearl goramis, its mainly in the giant hygro and the polysperma.

well thats all i have to say for now


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i hane a feeling they had no idea what they where talkin about.
Could well be, or they knew too much and didn't share it all with you. In either case, WRONG!

I relied on the person that I purchased the driftwood from to tell me if I would have to treat it. She said no, and as such I only soaked it for a week or so in the bathtub, plus the occasional scrubbing like a madman.

Wood that is in a river for just a short period is not qualified for a tank (bugs and critters) and most of the time will take forever until it will stay down by itself and stop leaching tannins.

Check into Excel for a CO2 substitue, I think it is available in your country as well. Also, I doubt that it is a potassium issue, although you may well have a low in that department too. I would assume you have a general lack of micro nutrients. What is your fert schedule?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 01:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
coop
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i weekly dose with a liguid fert with N,P,K(2.6,0,5.0)
and trace elements including chelates of iron, copper, manganese boran and zinc.
my rooed plants such as echinodorus also have JBL 7 Balls wich are like a pellet wich slowly releases iron and trace elements throughout the year.

any suggestions for other ferts?

most of the DW in the river(brackish) has been there for decades except for a couple of fallen over trees that have been there for about 3 years or more.
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dose with a liguid fert with N,P,K(2.6,0,5.0)
Uh, here is something that you can teach me: What do the numbers in the brackets mean? I would say it must be some concentration level measure, but why would P be zero? And is that right that there seems to be twice as much K than N?

Ingo


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From what I understand those numbers represent the percent of each of those in the fert. So if his numbers are correct there is no "P" in the fertilizer.

Congrats on 3000

My Scapes
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EditedEdited by coop
n= nitrates p=phosphorus k=potassium
it means there is 2.6 parts nitrates to ) parts phosphorus and 5.0 parts potassium.

the dont add phosphorus becuase it is what algea thrives on
and yes there is twice as much potassium so that there isnt a huge amount of nitrates going in to your tank.

after this weeks water change im gunna dose liquid ferts daily so that the nutrients are there on a daily basis instead of just a massive boost once a week. im looking in to buying the liquid co2 now,BTW i just added six home bred and grown honey gouiramis, they are mostly males though. i was worried the pearls would attach them but thhey havnt yet so all is good.

enough about my aquarium though, i feel like im kinda steeling your log.

BTW, i think your due for a weekly update



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I think your due for a weekly update
- Right, I will do that in a second, but first some input to your fert entry:

You are waaaayyy off! Read This Article for more information on ferts and dosing, it may give you some ideas.

And here it is, albeit not much to write about:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 61

Not too much has happened during this week, most of my concerns where related to stuffing Blyxa back into the substrate. Every time when I get some new plants of this species they come without roots and tend to float like mad. So, for 4 days in a row, I had to shove between 2 and 4 of them back into the gravel. By now they seem to stay down though.

The Wisteria is growing nicely, and so are most other plants.

Here is the tank after the island was created, 5 weeks ago:

Attached Image:

5 Weeks Ago



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And here is the tank last night. I am still wondering if I should give the pearl grass a trim as it has reached its peak height (although it can grow taller, but that is as tall as I would like it to get).

Also, because the island has become more dense with trimmings from the alternanthera and the inserts of crypts, the lower parts of the star grass seem to be too dark and wither away. I may trim them as well.

Attached Image:

Tank Last Night



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Here is a closer look at the left side. The tank light and the camera make the blyxa blend in more with the wisteria than it is when viewed directly, so don't even comment on that fact

Not visible in the picture are one or the other tenellus plantling that I did not see when I removed them all to add them to the 29. I will keep them in there for a while, we will see if they make it in the wisteria jungle.

Attached Image:

Left Part of Tank



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It seems like my Apistos are filing for divorce, at least that is how I interpret their facial expression and body positioning in this picture.

Not the best shot, but better than none

Attached Image:

Leave Me Alone



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Already the last shot for this log today (waaayyy more will come in the 40G log), a closer look at the Island.

The one thing I am trying out (as of yesterday) is having my light further back than I used to. Before, it was pretty much in the middle of the tank depth, now it is about 2/3 back. I don't need that much light over the Wisteria in the front and I think the island and blyxa will profit from it. What do you think?

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Island



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Post InfoPosted 26-Nov-2006 13:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
I do love that tank! With the shift in the light toward
the back of the tank, I suspect that you will change the
dynamics of the plant growth and the leaves may tilt in
the new direction. The Wisteria, in particular, may
change leaf "texture" and you may wind up trimming a whole
lot more as they stretch up instead of out toward
the shifted light source.

My Wisteria grows on stalks nearly a 3/8 inch thick and
sends out runners parallel to the gravel. The central
plant grows an unbelievable root system, and I nearly
up root everything else in the tank when I try to remove
it. So, I stopped trying. I let the three main stalks
stay where they are and snip off their tops and
either replant them elsewhere, or toss them.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 26-Nov-2006 16:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Frank for the input and the compliment on the tank itself, I appreciate it.

Yeah, the wisteria can develop quite some root system, I experienced that in the past when I had it too settle the tank and when I had it dispersed throughout the tank as a nutrient sucker. I will have to talk to tetratech about the details on creeping-wisteria-maintenance

The leaves should not change direction too much as the light shift was maybe 2 inches at most 3 inches. I guess we will see the difference in a few weeks when I make another comparative update.

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Nov-2006 17:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very nice looking LF

Re the light move. Your lights are probably so good, that no-matter where you position it, all your plants will still be very happy. But re-positioning my blyxa in the best possible light spot sure helped mine out.

I'm sure your blyxa will thank you for the extra light.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 27-Nov-2006 23:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
coop
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what am i way off about?
sorry dont have time right now to read the thingy.

i no im right about the N,P,K because thats what we were taught in Agriculture.

ive been treating daily since friday, all synptoms seem to have gone except for a couple of ugly leaves on one of they giant hygro's.

one of the anubias flowers died


looking good
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Thanks Robyn for the re-assurance on the light move, when I look into the tank now from the side I can see the light straight above the middle (in depth) of the main island.

Coop - maybe at some point we should discuss your ferts in a separate thread that you could create. In general, adding N but no P is way off, plus all the other stuff.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 11:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
slickrb
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Ingo,

The tank is looking good. I really like how it is developing. Always love the pictures!

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums
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Thanks Rick,

The next set of pictures will have to wait until at least tonight as I did not take any yet (although I have done the water change). Too busy

Ingo


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 62

This week has seen some inconsistency in the fert schedule as I had no chance on two days to fert the tank, given that I spent them at work. So, first I missed a micro day and did it the following day, then I missed the next macro day and skipped the 3rd "feeding" completely. We will see if it has a negative impact.

Not much happened otherwise, I did some wisteria and star grass trimming.

Here is the full tank shot:

Attached Image:

Full Tank Today



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Here is a closer look at the left tank side, trying to show that there is really another plant, the blyxa, in the middle of the wisteria lawn.

In reality, the color difference between these two plants is a little stronger.

Attached Image:

Blyxa in Wisteria



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And here is a look at the right edge of the main group. The red Wendtiis are not doing to well and undergo quite a bit of melting. The NL Java Fern is doing ok though, but it tends to be the first plant that develops signs of BBA on its tips. The wood is beginning to be a host for hair algae again.

Attached Image:

Right Part of Island



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Here is a close look into the center of the island, showing the various colors that are present there.

In addition, the crypt shown in this picture is the one that I think tetratech has.

Attached Image:

Center Look



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Here is a look at two of my rainbows,they are fine week in and week out. Just like Matty's, they always are up for a chase amongst themselves, including some stand-off to identify "who is the boss". Every day anew.

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Rainbows



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Here you can see my female viejita again, she is soooo nice. In this shot though, she is spreading her fins, I wonder why?

Attached Image:

Female viejita II



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And here is the answer:

The male was near by and they were showing to each other. I often think that she must lay some eggs somewhere, but is just not commited enough to actually take care of the fry.

I wonder what could be if I would place them in a separate tank (which I don't have).

Ok, that's it for this weekend,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Pair viejita II



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TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
In reality, the color difference between these two plants is a little stronger.
This blending of greens in camera shots .... know exactly what you mean. I can imagine all the subtle differences in your tank when viewing in real life.

I like your middle shot, showing all the different colour details. My hubby doesn't understand why I am so desperate for better lights, so I can have colours like yours. On Saturday he said "he wished he could get through to me not to change a thing". Ahhh, but to have nice reds like you He just doesn't understand.

And I agree, your viejita girl. A most attractive lady. And, Yes, Yes, Yes - get them a separate tank & see what happens. What fun. I'll pop straight over to your Christmas present thread and put that suggestion in in BOLD CAPITALS. No doubt, your management won't give permission, but still.....

Cheers
TW
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No doubt, your management won't give permission
You got that right Robyn
Why would my management be any different than yours

I think the nicest red plant that I had so far was my Rotala Macandra, but that group at some point decided that it doesn't like my tank anymore and it melted away. I don't know why up to this day.

Ingo


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TW
 
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Why would my management be any different than yours
I know, I know, I know.

But sometimes, deals can be struck

Maybe one day. For now, I will just have to be satisifed with reading about the activities of your cacs in the 40G I guess.


Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by tetratech
What to get for XMAS? How about what to get for your Birthday?

HAPPY BIRTHDAY

My Scapes
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Thanks tetratech,

I haven't even had the time to think about treating myself for my birthday, I guess I will have to spend more money when I treat myself for Xmas then

Ingo


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TW
 
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Oh, I didn't realise.

Happy Birthday to you
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday dear Ingo
Happy birthday to you

Hip Hip Hooray

Sorry I'm late.

Cheers
TW
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Happy Birfday, Lf

Also, nice fish pics, very pretty apisto pair. I'm sure they steal attention away from the rest of the good looking crowd.

Back to the paper



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happy Birthday!!!

I get bored with saying <- this smiley does not poke its tongue out enough!!!!

Your tank looks fantastic.

I saw those fish in my LFS a couple of weeks ago. yours look better.

going now.

humph.

GFG


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HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

Frank

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Thanks everybody for the Birthday wishes and comments on the tank/fishies

GFG - My pair of viejita II looked nothing like this when I got them from the LFS, all gray and rather boring. If it wouldn't have been for the nice employee (whom I trust as we have had a few fish-conversations beforehand) I would not have shelled out the $80 they cost at that store. In the end, I am glad I did as this is a very nice looking, pieceful, and enjoyable couple.

Ingo


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n the end, I am glad I did as this is a very nice looking, pieceful, and enjoyable couple.


Well, despite the ensuing divorce, that is...

Happy birthday, belated of course.

As for presents, enough with this fish stuff, you KNOW you want to expand that Canon lens selection!


Back in the saddle!
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fish patty
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY LITTLE FISH!

I don't keep up with logs very well........ I'm not that advanced. But I do peek in occasionally to see the pretty tank pics.

Oh.......... NOW that you have me leery of being bitten by little fish, you change your logo!

Out of curiosity, what little fish is it that bit you one time to make you used to have that logo?
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you KNOW you want to expand that Canon lens selection
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a lens for the real real close ups. The wife got me a photo printer for my birthday (Epson R800, I think, no idea if it is any good, but so far even 8x11 pics look nice) and I really would like to get some great ultra-close-ups. Any suggestion?

what little fish is it that bit you one time to make you used to have that logo?
fish patty - glad to see that some others than the usual gang is looking into my log(s) once in a while. No fish bit me though . My name is here is LITTLE_FISH and my siggi line made it clear to all that one better does not mess with me by assuming that a little fish can be pushed around. So, if forced, I would have been the one doing the biting

Ingo


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EditedEdited by fish patty

OHHHHHH! That explains a lot! DUH!

Well, I'm so glad to hear that! And here I was thinking you were just somewhat of a woos! (sp)

Ok, now that I know, I won't mess with the LITTLE FISH.

I'm sure we would all be surprised if we knew how many people looked in on our threads! It's only the smallest fraction that might comment. I look at ALL the recent threads, but only scan the SW, crustations, logs, etc., things I'm not really interested in.

The logs are waaaaaay past me since I'm just a beginner & it's all I can do to keep up with water quality, especially since I have a 55 gal.. Hoping to get a python some day.

I'm one of those people that get interested in things & then dwindles off. I wouldn't be surprised if I dwindled off FP some day. I noticed from old posts that a lot of people come & go. So, we'll see.

All this talk about ferts., substrate, special lighting, co2!? Ummmm no thanks!
Don't think I ever want to get to that point. But I have noticed many posts with people like me that have regular low lighting & regular gravel & want to make do with what they have & still have some live plants. I may go that route that some day.................
meantime I will just keep reaping the benefits of the hard work people like you put in & just view your tanks from where I sit. (lurking in the background with the others)
Post InfoPosted 05-Dec-2006 21:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
goldfishgeek
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80 dollars?

My God. they weren't expensive here at all. thy were just a bit more expensive then normal but not 80 dollars.

wow. am glad I live near Europe for the first time ever!!!

Fish Patty - I hear you on the ferts malarky, I too am a fan of the good pictures, my tanks survive on the basics!

GFGxx


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Post InfoPosted 05-Dec-2006 22:49Profile Homepage Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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fish patty - Sorry to read that you are an "Interest-Looser" , maybe this hobby can maintain your focus for a while as there are so many facets to be explored. About the siggie line, I think GFG's line just above is stating more clearly what mine was (more or less) implying)

GFG - My LFS is known to be on the more expensive side of things, I am most certain that you can get this fish (as a pair) in other areas of the US for half the money.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Dec-2006 15:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
jase101
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belated birthday wishes, ingo!

i was just doing a bit of a catch-up on this thread, and it occurred to me - if you didn't fertilise so much, have such good light etc, maybe you wouldn't have to prune and maintain so much!!!

justin
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Ha Ha Justin



Well, if I didn't have soooo many ferts, and less light, and maybe no CO2, yeah - less pruning would be required. But ups, that would be a low light low tech tank then

Actually, these days with the new layout, the pruning is much less then it was with the old setup where fast growers were dominating (given that there is a difference between the fast growers, as Wisteria in the tank is growing less fast than Star Grass).



Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 09-Dec-2006 14:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Gang,

Sorry to say that my weekly tank updates will have to wait at least until tonight.

I have been very busy hosting this month's NJAGC meeting and that took all out of me, preparing the tanks on Thursday and Friday, hosting on Saturday, cleaning and adding new plants to my tank(s) on Sunday - including another Ingo Style makeover on the 20G QT

But it has been a blast,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 11-Dec-2006 16:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I was starting to wonder what happened to you! At least you were having some plant fun!

As always I look forward to seeing the new pictures.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
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Post InfoPosted 11-Dec-2006 16:26Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Allow me to be random for a moment, because your av. reminded me of something I read recently on APC. In an article about anubias, the writer said that higher levels of phosphate seem to lead to flowering. I know you have higher levels of P - could this be the reason why your anubias seem to flower so much more than others'??? Just putting it out there randomly, my apologies if this has already been discussed to death.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 12-Dec-2006 23:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Interesting point Nowher. I don't think that has been talked about here. I might have missed it though...

Mine flowered once back this spring. I have no idea what I did special for it either. It just happened. I might start doesing some P in the tank its in now just to see what happens. The tank already has my flowering crypt in it so why not add another plant to the list of flowers.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 13-Dec-2006 15:05Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks for the P info, makes a lot of sense, as I have about 3 to 5ppm of it

Weekly Tank Update - Weeks 63 and 64

First of all, sorry for my lack of participation lately. There have been two main reasons why I was slacking off:

1) I hosted the second meeting of the NJAGC last weekend (see siggie line)
2) I have been killed with work, 15 hour workdays plus 3 hour commute were pretty much normal (and may continue for the next two weeks, at least)

The first was a treat that included a lot of preparation, including early water changes so that the tank is in a more normal state (not crazy pearling, for example) during the presentation). As a result of that meeting, I was left with quite a few plants from our usual plant swap and had to find a home for some of them (one I still haven't placed).

So, without further details, here is the tank last week:

Attached Image:

Last Week - 63



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Post InfoPosted 17-Dec-2006 15:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I managed to add my ferts during the week, usually at 4:30AM as I came home way too late at night to do it then. As a result, fish have not been fed 3 times this week

Plant growth was strong nevertheless, but by Friday I also ran out of CO2 and had to get a refilled bottle on Saturday.

Here is the tank before some trimming yesterday:

Attached Image:

Yesterday Morning



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Post InfoPosted 17-Dec-2006 15:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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There are two new plants in the tank right now, I will mention them a little later. A third is in the net breeder.

This week, I only trimmed the Wisteria in the foreground as it was beginning to grow rather tall.

I know that quite a few plants are in need of a trim, but I am worn out and didn't want to spend too many hours of my off-time on the tanks.

Attached Image:

Tank Now



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Post InfoPosted 17-Dec-2006 15:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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One of the new plants is a lilly, but I don't even know what its name is. It was a leftover from the plant swap and I couldn't throw it out, it was too nice. I placed it in the tank where there was some space and where it would kindoff fit in.

I think I saw a few days later that tetratech added the same or a similar lilly, but I swear that I had mine first

Attached Image:

Lillies



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Post InfoPosted 17-Dec-2006 15:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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The other new plant is also a lilly, I think it is called a Tiger Lilly. It has large leaves of which some melted away from being in a bag for too long. It was also given to me during the plant swap.

And that is it for this tank and this weekly update,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Lilly



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Post InfoPosted 17-Dec-2006 15:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dan76
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hi ingo , been away for a while , the tank looks great


cheers dan










onetwothreefourfivesixseveneightnineteneleventwelvethirteenfourteenfifteensixteenseventeen, thats all you need

OH TOLEEDY!
Post InfoPosted 18-Dec-2006 04:48Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
jase101
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ooh, ooh, i know those ones!! finally, a plant you own that i know! they're all varieties of tiger lotus - the second picture is a particularly gorgeous variety that i own - very dark, thick stems, gorgeous patterned leaves, and sends strong lily-pad style leaves to the surface once established. heavy root feeders, don't like being moved at all, very strong root systems, propogate by pup, yadda yadda yadda... i'm sure you could have just looked that up on tropica!!

hope your hard work ends soon ingo, and gives you some time to enjoy your family and your tanks!!

have a merry christmas, too.

regards,

justin
Post InfoPosted 18-Dec-2006 09:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks Dan for the compliment and Justin for the input on the lotus. I somehow thought it must be a lotus, and not a lilly as I wrote, I guess the last week really wore me down, .

I had to move the strong lotus twice, I hope it will forgive me for it.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 18-Dec-2006 16:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Both tanks are starting to look nice and full. They are really starting to look great Ingo, I wish I could say the same for mine. I just trimmed my plants for the first time in a few weeks and pulled a basketball sized amount of stargrass and pearlgrass out . It looks like you are able to treat your tanks a little better than me, even though you are busy. Looks great, keep it up/:'



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Post InfoPosted 18-Dec-2006 17:12Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I think I saw a few days later that tetratech added the same or a similar lilly, but I swear that I had mine first

Since you broght it up, mine was featured in my makeover Nov 21 (Pg. 85) of my 72G log.

It is also known as a tropical lilly. BTW the tank looks great Really like the Wisteria Wizard influence

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 18-Dec-2006 17:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Glad to see you back, LF. Despite the busy work week I hope you at least are able to enjoy a few days off around christmas.

I second (or third.. or fifth..) everyone's thoughts about the tank.

The one thing I really noticed though is how large your dwarf rainbows have gotten! They appear almost as large as the pearls! How nice to see the kiddies really growing up...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 18-Dec-2006 17:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I hope you at least are able to enjoy a few days off around christmas


Unfortunately it we will have some family over on Xmas, and then I got to go back to work. If things turn out not too good then I may even work on Xmas and New Year itself. But so far, I think I will have at least the weekends and holydays off.

Thanks all for the compliments and input:

- tetratech, I guess I was not the first with the Lotus then, or is it a Lilly, or can one use either name ?

- Matty, I think my Wisteria is not as well trained as Tetratech's as it starts to grow upwards now (or it is just too crowded on the bottom already). I should have trimmed some more this weekend, but I was too tired.

- NowherMan6, the downside of having your little ones all grown up is that they enter a later stage in their lives, and eventually die

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 18-Dec-2006 18:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Matty, I think my Wisteria is not as well trained as Tetratech's as it starts to grow upwards...

It takes a while. The longer you do it the more readily it grows horizontially. It also helps you plant it on an angle to the substrate. This will force more roots along the length of the stem.



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Post InfoPosted 18-Dec-2006 19:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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LF,

The tank still looks nice. It hasn't really changed much in the past few weeks but that isn't always a bad thing.

Congrates on becoming a member of NJAGC. I wish we had something like that around here but I can't fathom it happening anytime soon.

Best wishes these next couple of weeks with work.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 18-Dec-2006 19:44Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
jbe0404
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LF,

It's been a while since I've visited the web-site. I've been real busy as of late with school and work. The first thing I did when I visited the site tonight was to check the status of this tank and I must say that you are an aquascaping genious. I wish I had the money and the time to invest into my tanks. All in all, you have a very beautiful tank.

jbe
Post InfoPosted 29-Dec-2006 09:48Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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jbe0404 - Thanks for the compliments, keep on checking on the log, I appreciate it.

I myself did not find the time to update the log in almost two weeks now, or even longer.

SORRY ABOUT THAT!!!

And I am super busy at work, barely finding the time to do the basic maintenance on the tank. In fact, there have been at least 4 not-done fertilizer days, and just as many non-food days. And I have to say, the plants seem to do rather well with it.

My work situation is not getting much better just yet, tomorrow will be a work day from 6:45 AM to 3:00 AM as we go live with an important new product (software).

K, so here is some update, in just a few pictures:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 65 and 66

Here is the tank about a week ago, week 65:

Attached Image:

Week 65



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Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2007 22:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And here is the tank today. Last week saw the trimming of the main group, this week has seen more trimming of the Wisteria (was needed in 29G, update there will follow).

Tank Now:

Attached Image:

Week 66



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Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2007 22:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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The Tiger Lilly for sure seems to like it in my tank, it has grown at least 5 new leaves since added about 3 weeks ago.

Here is a close-up:

Attached Image:

Tiger Lilly



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Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2007 22:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And the carful observer for sure has seen the net thingy in the last picture's foreground.

Yes, I have started my first Riccia Rock, what a PISA to get a larger rock covered with pieces and then wrapped in a net. Well anyway, it is starting to grow out now, one week after creation:

Attached Image:

Riccia Rock



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Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2007 22:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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The last picture is of the Blyxa group on the left Wisteria field. Here, I always have to watch out that the Wisteria is not growing too strongly over this plant, because of shading. But so far so good.

Well, that's it for now, over to the 40 and 29 tank logs.

Sorry again for my lack of participation,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Blyxa



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Post InfoPosted 01-Jan-2007 22:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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LF,

Even though your life has been crazy the tank looks quite nice. I am glad nothing has gotten out of control on you.

The Lilly looks quite nice and how do you think tetra is going to feel about you having riccia too?




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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 02-Jan-2007 00:42Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Your tiger lily is looking really good, as is everything else.
how do you think tetra is going to feel about you having riccia too?
Well, LF is not the only one. I have it too & don't you as well, Wings (or am I thinking of someone else)?

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by slickrb
Ingo,

I continue to enjoy this tank. It looks great even with everything going on. Just try keep your head above water at work!

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums
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Wingsdlc
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You are right Robin. I have it too. Very neat stuff!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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slickrb
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Well, LF is not the only one. I have it too & don't you as well, Wings (or am I thinking of someone else)?


First Wisteria and now Ricca, apparently Tetra's plants are contagious.

**Cover's Mouth **

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Post InfoPosted 02-Jan-2007 20:31Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks all,

Mostly for the wishes about the work thing. It is 2:20AM (and I am here since 6:40AM) and I am still in a conference call resolving release issues. No idea when I get out tonight.

It will get better and then I have some more time to chat

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 03-Jan-2007 09:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The Lilly looks quite nice and how do you think tetra is going to feel about you having riccia too?


Well "imitation is the greatest form of flattery"

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 03-Jan-2007 23:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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just came by for my regular Drool session



big hugs to hard working man!

hope everything goes well with the software malarky!

GFGxx

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coop
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EditedEdited by coop
not much going on here. hows your male pearl going? coloured up much more? a picture maybe? anfd your viejita to plz i bought a new camera soonce i get a couple of new plants and try to send some photos. tanks looking great. oh i changed my ferts so now i use tetra florapride and flourish excel, plants are looking great.
im likeing your 40G tank better now days.

oh i just read what you have written on the last couple of pages(bored). your worken huh, im still a student so im on holidays........its summer hear in Australia and today(one of he unusual days where im not at the beach)its about 38-40 degrees, butiful day. im really angry coz no one will take me to the beach i guess its better than being stuck at work though
Post InfoPosted 09-Jan-2007 12:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
RNJ_Punk
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LF,

I have been admiring your apistos.

Are they also known as Double Full Red Cockatoo Cichlid?
If so I put myself on a waiting list so I will know when they get them in...here is the link http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=1664&emailconf=1664

thanks
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jbe0404
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LF,

Hope everything is going well. It has been a while since the last tank update. I'm sure everything is fine because it is in your hands and you are an aquarium master. Hope to see an update soon.



JBE
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Garofoli
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Wow... This tank is amazing. This thread has been around for several years now. Like since I started at FP. It is a wonderful Tank. How's it treating you now?

Chris
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2007 06:19Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Sorry folks,

I know it has been quite a while since my last update, but I have been really busy this year (so far). And when I was not working I had other things to do.

Anyway, the tank is doing fine, even with a certain amount of neglect. I even skipped a water change for the first time, and had over one week with no ferts addition. Nevertheless, nothing bad happened. Makes me wonder if all the usual effort may be overdoing it anyway.

So, here is the tank from last night, I think this is now week 70.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank in Week 70



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Post InfoPosted 29-Jan-2007 00:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Rob1619
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Thats awsome mate..really nice aquascape and very healthy plants...well done



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Post InfoPosted 29-Jan-2007 15:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
slickrb
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Ingo!!

Glad to see you are still hanging in there!

The tank is looking very nice. This last layout you have here as filled in very nicely. I'm glad that this layout has been very resilient with your busy schedule. Hopefully this tank is becoming a little more low maintenance (Well as low maintenance as a high tech tank can get ).

Is there any hope of you returning to a more "Normal" work load? This place has been awful quite lately.


Rick
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Post InfoPosted 29-Jan-2007 16:18Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the input guys,

Is there any hope of you returning to a more "Normal" work load?


That's what I am hoping for, but today is already another day from hell. It only can get better though.

See ya soon,

Ingo


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NowherMan6
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Ingo,

Glad to see you around best of luck with work and all!


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 29-Jan-2007 20:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nice lookin' scape, LF. You should slack more often. How do things look on the small scale?



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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2007 00:17Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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That is one awesome looking aquarium, hope everything works out well for you.

17 years experience with freshwater.
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Contrary to looking neglected, it actually appears to be, IMO, the best aquascape this tank has supported thus far.
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Thanks everybody for the kind comments, I appreciate it

You should slack more often. How do things look on the small scale?




I guess you are right, slacking seems to be better for my tanks than too much messing around (eh, I guess I should have known that).

Weekly Tank Update - Week 71

I will first show some full shots before I go into some details, although not too much is there to report about.

Here is the full tank this week:

Attached Image:

Week 71



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And here is a look at the main group only:

The only thing that begins to bother me about it is that the mother barteri is even outgrowing this tank and is dominating everything else. I am considering removing it or cutting it up.

Attached Image:

Main Group



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Here is the latest addition to the main group, some Pennywort. I always liked that plant and I regretted having thrown it out in one of my changes to the tank. It for sure grows fast though, maybe that was the reason I let it go in the first place, I don't remember:

Attached Image:

Pennywort



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The Red Tiger Lotus (Lilly) has grown really strong and has by now a few runners above and below the substrate.

One downer of it is that it grew so much that the Riccia rock is not getting enough light anymore and will need to be moved soon or all will die.

Attached Image:

Red Tiger Lotus



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The Wisteria is now very dense all over and pretty much forms a solid mat with about 2 to 4 inches in height. Here I will have to do some messing around as well, maybe cut off the tops, dispose the bottoms, and replant. We will see.

Attached Image:

Wisteria Carpet



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Another addition to the tank was the Water Lettuce, and that plant is growing fast as well. I kept some duck weed on the surface to see what will happen, but the Water Lettuce seems to suck up all the nutrients before the duck weed can get to it.

For now, I like the hanging roots though.

Attached Image:

Water Lettuce



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Here is a look at the area of the tank that I had a chance to mess with this weekend, the Blyxa.

I removed that mountain effect by taking out the tallest plants (which, btw, were not that tall but floated like 4 inches above the substrate being held in position by the other plants) and placing them closer to the main group, essentially connecting to it.

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Blyxa Group



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Not all is that great in the tank, I am seeing quite a bit of BBA on the exposed parts of the wood. It is not growing very fast and I have it now for a while. Just this weekend I started a small treament with Excel to make sure it stays checked.

Sorry about the bad quality of the shot:

Attached Image:

BBA



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On to some more fish shots, but not too many.

As I rarely get to capture a Pearl up close, here are two shots of the male, you pick which one you like, if any LOL.

Number 1:

Attached Image:

Pearl I



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Post InfoPosted 04-Feb-2007 14:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And here he is again, this time in his more natural level within the water column. I wonder if they like the water lettuce because they can swim trough the roots, but they are up there as often (or little) as before.

I guess they don't care.

Attached Image:

Pearl II



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All fish in the tank seem to be doing well, with the exception of some Espei that I see dying. I never find a body, but all indications are that one or the other is gonna be gone within a few days of observation.

I am not too concerned about it, actually I am not concerned at all. I believe that the dying fish are from my first generation and have reached the end of their life span.

Anyway, here is a shot of the Apisto Couple:

Attached Image:

Viejita II



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Last shot for now, again of the Apisto Couple. I am very glad I got them as they are really beautiful fishes.

Anyway, that's it for now, I hope you liked the pics,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Apisto Pair



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Post InfoPosted 04-Feb-2007 14:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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That's a really nice shot of the apisto pair, LF. This tank is also appreciating being left alone I guess. I like the consolidation of the blyxa group, but I think the island could use some consolidation as well. It looks like if it gets much bigger it will take away from the nice effect you've worked towards. I feel like the red tiger lotus is starting to get too big and not make it look like an island at all, but you may be going for that. I think it would look great within the group of plants there somewhere.



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Post InfoPosted 04-Feb-2007 16:18Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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but you may be going for that


Right now, I think I am going for "not too much work"

I was actually thinking about integrating the lotus into the main group, but I haven't found a good spot for it yet. Maybe to the left of the NL fern as I cannot move it close to the mother barteri, the leaves are too equal in size (but not color, so maybe this would be good as well, hm).

Thanks for the input,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 04-Feb-2007 17:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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tanks looking great, those apistos ar the best. i dont mean to be mean but your male pearl is a shocker. it should be a darker brown with blue spots and a red orange chest and the fins should be hanging behind the caudal fin.

it is a very female looking male, in fact i would have mistaken it for one but i notice the small filaments coming off its fins.
Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2007 08:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Another Gender Confusion !!!

I hope that not, as I had this going for a while with my Apistos for the 40G (I don't know if you know that coop).

Although I for sure cannot be certain, I am more convinced that this pearl is a male than I was with my Apistos. I have him, and another one that is a female, since they were very young and can pretty much say that they are of equal age. By now, he (one will hope it's a he) is quite a big taller than the other one, and the fins are for sure longer and more elaborate. For a while, when growing up, he had some oranging of the chest area, a sign for a male. Once he got a little older he lost most of this color. I don't know why, but I assume it has something to do with the fact that my tank is rather unsuited for Pearl breeding as the strong surface current would not permit the building of bubble nest. So - why shine if there is no way to successfully mate? At least that is what I came up with.

Don't worry coop, I would never think that you are mean

And thanks for the compliments on tank and apistos,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2007 15:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey all

Been lurking from time to time, but spending more time at a forum dedicated to aquatic plants. LF I think your group has a thread over there. I've seen another of our group there as well. Much more inspiration to take it to the next level.

Anyway to your tank. The center group still looks great and the plants healthy. As Matty, pointed out the lotus looks weird in the corner. Either you know that and your simply to busy or are more a collector plants and just want to experience them. The Blyxa (which looks much better than mine) also seems to be there just so you can have the plant. Maybe you and Nowher can teach me how to grow Blxya.

I'll probably put a few updated photos of my tank in my log soon. Hope all is well

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2007 15:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Jeff for the input

Yeah, our group has an account over there, that's right, but I haven't been there in a long time, except to look at pictures of myself

You are most certainly right, quite a few plants in my tank are there because "maybe one day I will use them properly." For example the blyxa - one day I may make that whole left area (or most of it) all blyxa instead of wisteria, but that would be boring as well, I guess

I have no idea why blyxa grows, but I can tell you that most of the stems in that group that have not been moved in a while actually hang onto the substrate just by a thread (aka one small string of root) while the rest is floating. I am actually not too wild about that part, this means that as soon as you somehow mess with the group (like thinning it out and such) you have a bunch of floaters.

Can't wait to see a few new shots of your tank,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2007 18:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Been lurking from time to time, but spending more time at a forum dedicated to aquatic plants. LF I think your group has a thread over there. I've seen another of our group there as well. Much more inspiration to take it to the next level.


That's too bad. For awhile I thought we were actually going to build a nice group of planted tank enthusiasts on this site. 'tis a shame.



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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2007 18:53Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Het matty, we're all still around here. I know personally I'm just going through some burnout right now. Also been frustrated in my attempts to start up my 65G tank which I bought 6 months ago so my interest isn't where it would be if I had, ya know, an actual large tank to take care of.

LF, you tank looks great considering the schedule you've been on. It's strange to see you settling on a layout...


Back in the saddle!
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
For awhile I thought we were actually going to build a nice group of planted tank enthusiasts on this site.
We really did have a nice group of planted tank enthusiast for quite some time. Couple of years? Tetra and LF's logs well and prove that. It seems though, that the community we have here falls apart without the backbones of LF, Tetra, and Ben. No one on here can seem to match their posting power. Maybe life is just to bussy right now for us all. I know things are still pretty crazy for myself.

It's strange to see you settling on a layout...
Right...I think that LF just doesn't have time to mess with it like he used to. Or maybe he is actualy happy with what he has going on. I know that I am starting to get to that point with my tank.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2007 22:37Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Guys,

It is not Doomsday, chill

I am still here, but tank related items had to come a little short when a workweek is somewhere around 80 hours. In my spare free time I has a choice, post here or maintain the tanks. If I don't maintain the tanks then there is nothing to post, except disasters, and I didn't want that to happen.

I am still around though.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2007 19:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Funny, and Scary Short Story:

Every night when I feed the fish in this tank, the larger ones (apistos, pearls, and rainbows) come to the top left corner of the tank where I add the food. The usually very shy pearls allow me to even pet them while they are eating (too greedy to be irritated by my fingers, LOL).

Once in a while, they scare each other during that feeding process, maybe when one of them darts for a flake and another didn't see him/her coming. This concludes in the startled one swimming off really fast.

So, two nights ago during the feeding, one rainbow got so startled that he leaped out of the tank and flew a good 4 feet before he hit the ground

It took me a little bit to realize what has been going on, but the silver shine of the fish during his flight made it easy for me to see his landing spot. I carefully pushed him with one hand into the cradle of the other, and placed him back into the tank. He first sat only on the ground (I couldn't help but draw a parallel to a dove that hit a glass window and sits there all confused), but later his urge to eat was stronger and he continued feeding session. But - always below the top 5 inches of the tank, LOL. I guess he learned his lesson for that day, albeit I am sure he has forgotten all about it by now.

That's it,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2007 18:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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When I feed at the store the oscars almost always jump out of the water to get the food, sometimes leaping out of the tank. I've gotten use to it now and have grabbed a few mid-flight. We have three verticle shelves of tanks, the fish that jump out of the lowest 2 usually survive. I think 5 feet is about the max drop to a non-cushy floor that a fish can normally take.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2007 19:36Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think 5 feet is about the max drop to a non-cushy floor that a fish can normally take.

And what happens to the fish when it is higher? Is he/she dead right away or dies slowly?

My stand is 28 inches, the tank 24 inches = 52 inches
So, if he didn't jump all that high then he should have fallen about 4.5 feet downwards, plus 4 feet horizontal. Must be a record for a dwarf neon rainbow, I guess

Ingo


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Not much to report for week 72

I did some minor changes only, in particular I removed the oldest baby of the Tiger Lilly as a trade for our plant swapping in the club. I left it with the host for the meeting as I was a week too early in my schedule.

Here is the full tank,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Full Tank - Week 72



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aquapickle27
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The tanks are looking really good, just had a quick question though, do you get your driftwood online?

†Aquapickle†
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Wingsdlc
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Looks good. How about moving the lilly just to the left and front of the NL Fern? Might look nice there as it is a different leaf shape and color.

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mattyboombatty
 
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Is he/she dead right away or dies slowly?


They usually start spinning spirals. Those weird loops that when on a rollercoaster make you a bit sick....Sometimes they straighten out, sometimes they die pretty quick.

As the lotus stands, it looks much better than before. I like wings' idea, it might look great in front og the NL fern.



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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2007 04:56Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the input,

aquapickle27 - This driftwood was once a big trunk like structure, all in one piece. I bought it at EBay and you can read more about it approx. 70 pages earlier in this log (LOL).

Wings and Matty - I am not so sure that moving the Lilly more forward and center is such a good idea. It is a pretty large plant,at least when considering the leaf diameter. I will have to think about it

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2007 15:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
aquapickle27
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Ok, i was just having trouble finding driftwood that i liked. I really like the drift wood you have in your tanks.

Thanks!

†Aquapickle†
Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2007 00:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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aquapickle27,

I had trouble (and still do) finding the right driftwood as well, it takes time and luck to come accross a nice piece (or pieces) that fits your tank dimensions.

I just checked my log, if you want to then you could see how these branches looked like when they were on one trunk on page 48.

Have fun,

Ingo


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Wingsdlc
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aquapickle27,

Check out this site.

http://manzanita.com/

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 73

I had to do a little maintenance on this tank this weekend, some Wisteria needed trimming, all Star Grass needed trimming, so did the Alternanthera and the Pearl Grass. On top of it, I had it with the Riccia, it is just not my thing.

Here is a look at the full tank:

Attached Image:

Tank Week 73



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Post InfoPosted 19-Feb-2007 14:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is a closer look at the island group in itself. I arranged the Star Grass and the Alternanthera a little different, not in layers as I had them before. This time, the Alternanthera is forming a small street that reaches the edge in front of the island.

Attached Image:

Island



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Post InfoPosted 19-Feb-2007 14:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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If the Star Grass would grow much slower then it would be a truely beautiful plant, at least for me. Here is a look at the new group just a few hours after the water change, that's why it pearls so much.

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Star Grass



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I am glad that I added some Pennywort to the tank again, although it is by now growing so fast that I have to remove one to two stems each week. Half by itself and half with my help it is wrapping nicely around and through the Anubias Barteri plant.

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Pennywort



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Here is a closer look at the Pennywort after the water change. This plant tends to pear nicely, I remember that it was the first one to ever do so in this tank a long time ago.

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Pennywort Again



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And as I usually show shots of my Pearls, Rainbows, and Apistos, today I will show one of the other fish in the tank, beginning with an Oto.

They are probably all still in the tank, although I haven't counted them all (6) since the last layout change a while back.

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Oto



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Last series of shots is commited to my Espei. They are slowly reducing in numbers although I for sure still have about 30 in there.

Here they are in an area where they usually never hang, above the Blyxa on the left side of the tank.

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Espei I



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Here is a closer look at some of them. It is interesting, albeit sad, to see how they age. Once old, they become rather skinny and breath hard. And then, one day they are gone

I have seen this about 6 times so far.

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Espei II



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Here is another group shot over the Blyxa. Note the two Espei on the right of the picture. They are males sparring off the identify the boss. But only the boss of the current fight as I happen to know the real boss of the school personally and these two are not it, LOL.

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Espei III



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Last but not least, this is the real boss. In the current tank layout he occupies the area above the Star Grass. Here, he fends off any other male and flirts with the females. Strategically, this is a great spot for him as the way to the underside of leaves is really short.

That is it for this week,

Have fun,

Ingo

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Espei - The Boss



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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
While it look good before as well, the new "street" is such an improvement. Enjoyed the fish pictures too.

Cheers
TW
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Thanks Robyn,

Glad to see that someone likes the street. Unfortunately it will be short lived as the Star Grass grows way too fast and the look of this area will be changed within a week or two all by itself.

Glad you liked the pictures,

Ingo


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LF,

Nice shots of the tank. It looks like you still have some algea but I would like to find someone without any. Even one of the Amano tanks had GSA in it from a TFH mag.

I like the shots of your Espie. I don't think you have showed them off in quite some time. I went over to some one of my customers/friends house last night. They had some H. Rasboras that looked quite nice too. Much nicer than my Briliant Rasboras.



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Thanks Wings for the compliments/comments

Yeah, I once in a while have some BBA issues, and some green hard spots on the glass, but nothing that concerns me at all. One week of Excel takes care of any major BBA and the green spot can be scraped off.

Ingo


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 74

Nothing much happened to the tank during the week. I guess the one thing worthwhile mentioning is that I reduced my dosing. Not by amount but in frequency. I only dose now twice a week. I do this since about a month and haven't seen an issue yet, but I think it would be too early to assume all will be well with this schedule.

Here is the full tank this weekend:

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Week 74



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The one major trimming I did this weekend was to start the replanting process of the wisteria. Wow, I greatly underestimated how long this would take. All I did was to remove all wisteria in the area shown below, trim off old bottom parts and low leaves on the new clippings, and then I replanted them. It took me over one hour to do so.

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Trimmed Wisteria Area



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Hey,

did you see the male Apisto in the last shot? Well, here he is again, a little burry, in front of the center group and flashing to his girl. I like when they do that:

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Center with Fish



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The next two shots are all about the male Apisto showing him in two modes.

First off, this shot was taken right after he flashed to his girl, but she took off in the meantime. Take a look at his face:

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Male I



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And this shot was taken a short while later. As you can see, the bar under his eye is much more dominant than it was in the last shot. This is his "stay away from me" mode. Most Apisto people knew that, but hey, maybe someone not so firm on this fish may be peeking into this log as well.

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Male II



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Already here comes the last shot. It shows the Blyxa group on the left side of the tank. This plant is such a floater

The sole reason why there are a few plants that look taller than the others is because they become loose and float upwards, just to be hold back by either other plants or one or two tiny roots that still stick in the substrate.

Anyway, that's it,

Have fun,

Ingo

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Looks good Ingo. Everything's looking healthy. I'm still waiting for you to move the lotus

That's funny I recently uprooted all my wisteria, but only did one side and it took me a few hours only because I did it very slowly and keep removing water as things got stirred up. Only had to do this every 6 months or so, depending on how high you want the wisteria to grow. If you want it really low like a carpet you might have to do it more often, but mine sort of acts as the side of a mound so I can accomodate the height for longer periods of time.

Sounds like you have the same issue with the blyxa that I do. A small root system so the plant has a tendency to float up. I'm gonna try putting some root tabs right under the blyxa and see if it helps develop a bigger root system. I believe the ADA substrate works better in this regard, as I think nowher can atest to.

Nice apisto shots!

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I'm still waiting for you to move the lotus




Well, I am holding back with this effort so I have you come into the thread more often and check if I finally have moved it

Yeah, the wisteria replant is time intensive. I had to redo mine because I used a lot of tops as plantlings for the 20 and the 29 over time. The new growth looked funny with the strong main stems and then the thin new tops coming out of it.

Root tabs sounds good, just this morning I was considering to order a few for some of my plants, Blyxa being the main one. Any particular brand in mind there, tetratech? I am thinking Seachem Flourish Tabs.

Ingo


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Well, I am holding back with this effort so I have you come into the thread more often and check if I finally have moved it



Boy this is like old times. Unfortunately nowher is nowhere, matty is probably around somewhere and bensaf, well you know that bensaf. Anyway as far as the tabs, yes I'm using the flourish ones, I just put them in so well see, I think nowher also thought those were the ones to get.

Switching gears, I just saw the pics from your meeting. That's very impressive with the dosing computer, etc. Looks nice. I was looking at the setup that was a tek T5HO light right? That substrate separater was that also from ADA. I'm not sure how there going to keep the two substrates separate. Definitely no bottom dwellers and especially no kuli loaches. The loaches go through all the rock crevices and tend to mix the substrates, but even without them I would thing the substrates will still mix with too much current or water change situations.

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Yeah tetratech,

Just like the old days, kind of at least

Anyway, yes - this guy's tank is truely high tech, from automatic water changer (10% daily) over automatic fertilizer addition to ADA stuff (including the tank itself), he has it all. Very very impressive!

So far, his tank looks really good, it is planted now (not final of course) and we will soon see how the separation of sand/soil will hold up. You may not have noticed it, but there is a line of rocks on the border between the substrate types.

Hey - did you see the last shot at the event review? I assume you have figured out who's hand that is there in the tank

Ingo


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You know I didn't notice the last shot with the hand. Tough to miss the orange sweater from the shot before and make the connection. Yeah I saw the rocks, but it doesn't take much to mix it. There are always little crevices, etc. So 'bout the lights are the Tek T5HO?

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From his log:

Teklight T5 4x54W

Whatever that means

Ingo


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I'm always somewhere tetratech. Things are just getting busy as I'm finally wrapping up my college years.

Teklights are very nice fixtures, though I would say that they might in fact be too much for most planted tanks, as they are more than plenty for most reef tanks. Since I switched out my icecap ballast, I now have a kind of DIY tek fixture on my reef tank as I'm using the same ballasts. I like



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Glad you still around. Congrats on the college thing. One chapter closes and another begins.

From what I'm hearing planted enthusiasts are using the tek T5HO lights because they have the power to be suspended above the tank and still penerate the WC very well. Any thoughts on that?



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They look pretty darn sweet too!!!

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IMO they will penetrate a little better than most other tube style lights because of the better reflectors. More light simply enters into the tank. It's the trade off of a consistent spread of light(uniformity), that penetration suffers. If penetrance(I'm making up words here, bear with me) is desired, a focused single source type of light should be used instead....like a metal halide. Pendant styles are very common here for a good reason.

OTOH you can suspend any light fixture you want with a drill and some wire, and if bright enough it will penetrate just fine. So I think the fact of the matter is just that they are bright enough and compact/light enough to raise off the tank a bit. Still, my choice for an open top aquarium would probably be a halide for convenience and expense. If quality of light is a concern, T5HO are a little better IMO than halides.



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OTOH you can suspend any light fixture you want with a drill and some wire, and if bright enough it will penetrate just fine. So I think the fact of the matter is just that they are bright enough and compact/light enough to raise off the tank a bit. Still, my choice for an open top aquarium would probably be a halide for convenience and expense. If quality of light is a concern, T5HO are a little better IMO than halides.
As you probably know I'm not exactly Mr. DIY. So if I want a suspending light over a 60cm what would you recommend that's reasonable. I see the T5HO 24" Sunlight is like $250 plus the hanging equip. I could probably get a better deal on a single 150 MH. Two feet would probably be mix width for one MH bulb, correct. My apologized to LF, but I think he's cool with this.

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Yes and no on the 2ft per halide bulb. First, the rule was created for much higher light requiring organisms...corals. I think that it could be stretched to 3-4ft with a very interesting lighting effect and a thought out selection and placement of plants. It also depends how high off the surface you have the pendant. Think of a flashlight here. Obviously it won't be as bright as high up, and there will be more light spray outside the aquarium(this may be a good thing for emersed growth?), but more of your aquarium will be lit, and light levels can be adjusted with a higher wattage system (a 450w bulb could be several feet off the aquarium and light the aquarium and houseplants around it). Also the shape of the pendant will have an effect - round vs. square/rectangle.

I agree that you could probably find a better deal on a halide setup if you keep your eyes open. Also used halide setups are more abundant, as they are older technology. Lightly used halide setups can be found pretty cheaply on the reef forums....that would be the route I'd go as I'm a poor college kid.

I'd say it would all depend on what affect you wanted as to what system you should get.

And sorry to Ingo for thread hijacking.



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Hey,

No being sorry needed for this discussion, I am thinking about lights in general as well.

My concern is more with my 40G than this one though, but we can talk about it here as the pre-cursor is already in place.

The problem I see with MH or PC lights is its limited angled spread. Doesn't make sense I guess, so I try to explain:

As you know, I have a single 96W PC fixture over my 40G. Logically, it is in the middle of the tank. Giving the tree tops of the Bolbitis and NL Java Fern groups, many plants on the sides that are lower are beginning to be severely shaded. If I had a light that has less wattage by bulb and had more bulbs to make up the difference then I could have light shining in even on the plants at the sides. That's where I find the T5s come in handy.

The Tek Light is 11" wide, with a tank width of 18". If I primarily would have the outer lights on and turn on the center ones at "Midday" then I should get a better spread.

Or shouldn't I?

Ingo


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Though you won't believe me until you see it for yourself, T5HO bulbs may be less wattage, but put out more light. LF, a 4X39w setup would be more light output than a 2X96w PC fixture, probably more like a 3-4X96w PC fixture.

It won't be like your analogy of less wattage more spread. You'll get more spread, but you'll be at least tripling your light output at the midday 4 bulb peak. People who haven't used the T5s are still underestimating them, I know I did. This is just so you don't jump in unprepared, I know you could handle the extra light cause you have the CO2 and plant mass, not to mention the experience.

If you want less wattage bulbs with more spread I think you'd be limited to NO fluorescent bulbs, say 4 30w bulbs, or you could just tack on another NO fixture to what you have now.



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Interesting info. Not all T5 are created equal, right. Your talking specifically T5HO right. Also the T5HO lights like TEK that have 4 bulbs across are wider than the 2x96 CF lights and thus look better when hung, right?

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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
I guess the problems I have with the metal halide lighting
are these:
The tank must be open, so you run the risk of dried fish
on the floor.
The pendant lights, at the normal height above a tank give
about a 2 foot "footprint" of light. This means that a long
tank would require more than one pendant.
They are heavy and must be secured into joists/studs,
and frequently the support is not located over the tank.
That requires an additional cross member that could disrupt
the "flow" of the ceiling and room.
metal halide lights give off a large amount of heat and
cumulatively, can affect the room temperature.

Use caution when purchasing the lamp and bulb. Most of the
time metal halide lamps are used for saltwater reef tanks
and come with very high "K" rating bulbs 20,000+.

Here is a site on aquarium lighting specifically the metal
halide bulbs, but along the left hand side are links to
the other lighting systems and their characteristics.

http://www.aquarium-lighting-guide.com/metal-halide-ansi

Frank


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Tetratech, the important thing to get with your T5HO are the individual parabolic reflectors. Use a single reflector over the group of bulbs and your lights are now no better than any other HO bulb. They would be equivalent to PC or VHOs without the individual parabolic reflectors. I know tek lights have these, and the housing is VERY sleek. A definite bonus. I think they would look good hung...I think they would look good, period . And yes I think the light spread is wider, but also better deflected downwards due to the better reflectors, so I think moving them off the surface would look better as far as light spread goes too.

Also there are the icecap systems. The icecap ballast pushes the bulbs even harder than those found in other systems. I think it's referred to as ODHO. In conjunction with the icecap individual parabolic reflectors, these systems are brighter than the sun . I fried my corals with it. I'd only recommend these for deep tanks with very high light requiring organisms, and fish with sunglasses.

So all T5HO systems are not created equal. I think the Current fixture has a single reflector and normal HO ballasts. The Tek lights have individual parabolic reflectors and normal HO ballasts, and the icecaps have individual parabolic reflectors and ODHO ballasts.



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Glad we have that discussion as it most certainly put some doubts on me having a Tek Light over the 40G

The double unit of 96W from Coralife may not work for me, except if I could hang that one as well (I am not sure if I would have to do some DIY contraption for that, yuk).

I will investigate, but feel free to advise.

On a side note, I skimmed through my log yesterday in search of a shot from my Macandra and noted that somewhere in the middle pages (between 50 and 70, I think) all my images are missing. Given that I embedded them in the posts and that they are hosted by FP I am not a happy camper.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2007 15:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Frank,
Thanks for the info and link. That should be really helpful. It is a pain and your right about the the hanging issues. As far as the fish jumping out, you know us planted tank folk, we always put the plants ahead of the fish. I actually had tetras, cichlids and kuli loaches and shrimp in an open-top and never lost one to jumping in about a year, but certainly some fish will jump so you need to keep away from those.

Matty,
I'm definitely going for looks so as I said I think the Tek lights look good suspended vs the coralife's which as you pointed out can be suspended by simply cutting a hole in the top and using wire. I will never buy another Current USA product. I had one hood the ballast went just outside of a year and the company had really poor service. The 192watt reflector also had 4 plugs (2 for the bulbs and 2 for separate fans (that BTW were noisy from the getgo) If Teks are the BMWs and Coralifes are the Toyotas than Current USA are the Chevys (no offense Chevy owners)

LF,
Why wouldn't those lights (tek and coralife work for your 40g). Sorry must have missed something. I hope your pictures aren't lost.


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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2007 16:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I'm pretty sure that coralife has a hanging kit. All their fixtures should attach to it.

About the pics...I'd post something up in the site feedback forum, Adam might be able to recover those. Bummer though. That's why I use photobucket AND backup everything on my hard drive, I now have like 3-4gigs of pictures. I think that happened to me on a site upgrade one time.


EDIT:didn't see your post tetratech, I think LF didn't want something a lot brighter, like the tek lights will be. I said I thought he'd be able to handle it though, he's got the equipment. I wish they made 3 bulb units, each independant, but that would require 3 ballasts and be extra pricey. Just having a three bulb fixture at all would be nice I think.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2007 17:01Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I checked into the coralife hanging situation. They do sell a hanging kit, unforunately it only works with the pro and plus lights not the regular or deluxe ones.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2007 17:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Oh, I see how it is. *shakes fish at coralife* Well I guess that leaves my drill and wire method.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2007 17:18Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Oh, I see how it is. *shakes fish at coralife* Well I guess that leaves my drill and wire method



As far as the Tek lights for LF, he could run 2 or 4 bulbs with the timers, so I think he'd be already if he wanted that look. He could always play around with the wattage.

Matty, do you know if you can stick a coralife fixture inside one of these or would you have to order the kit from AH supply. I'm thinking you could put the light in one of these and hang the canopy over the tank.

http://www.ahsupply.com/finished_enclosures.htm

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Most likely the coralife unit won't fit under there. They do give the exact dimensions though, so you could measure. But I know usually the coralife unit slips over the edge of the aquarium to prevent it sliding off one way or the other. And I think those sit on the tank edge.

The ones that all glass sell are held up by little studs in the corner and have a small gap between the tank and the hood. The coralife units fit uner those pretty well. Although the back is open, so it wouldn't work for LF's two-view tank. Might work out for you though. They are pretty similarly priced I think.



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Weekly Tank Update - Week 75

Not much has changed during the week with the tank, I am continuing the trimming process of the Wisteria and this week removed and replanted the section in front of the island.

Here is a shot of the tank in Week 60, 15 weeks ago, the first week with the Wisteria in place all around.

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Week 60



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And here is the tank now this weekend, 15 weeks later, after the trimming.

As you can see, the Barteri and the NL Java Fern have grown like mad. The Barteri in particular is reaching a point where I don't know how much longer I can maintain it as such. I may have to cut it up and replant only half of it.

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Now - Week 75



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Otherwise, I have only one more picture to show. Around this time of the year there is a brief time period in the mornings when, given that the sun is shining, some light falls through the window (after bouncing off the neighbor's window) and into the tank. I think it looks pretty nice. It all lasts for maybe 10 min.

That's it,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Morning Mood



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You're right, that morning shoot is pretty cool looking.

Your layout is at one and the same time, both lush, healthy & full looking as well as making the tank look large and open. Your fish enjoy the best of both worlds - plants to swim around in as well as lots of open space for swimming around.

You have Lucky Fish, LF

Cheers
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Thanks Robyn for the compliments

Yeah, overall no doubt on this being my best layout in this tank's history, and the most stable on top of it.

Ingo


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Interesting to note that those stems are headed straight for that beam of sunlight. I've been learning about the proteins that cause plants to grow towards the light. Pretty interesting stuff. However, with how short the phenomena is, I doubt that's the cause of the plants growing that direction.


It's great to have that problem with slow growers like barteri and j fern. I'd personally just hack out a few leaves on the barteri every week or two to maintain its size, as right now it's rather pleasing.



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Post InfoPosted 04-Mar-2007 16:52Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'd personally just hack out a few leaves on the barteri every week or two to maintain its size

Hm, I will have to think about this as an option. See, the mother plant has quite a few rhizomes growing all over the place, including one half way up in the water column. This means that leaves from that rhizome will always come up very high in the tank, not so pretty when the leaves from the lower rhizomes would be trimmed off.

Ingo


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Yeah, you may have to cut back adventurous rhizomes too then. But hopefully you won't have to rip the sucker out.



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Just wanted to say the tank looks great, Ingo. I don't post comments in this area often as my knowledge is limited in the planted realm, but I pretty much read all of the posts when they are made.

Jim



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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2007 04:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Jim,

Feel free to post any comment you have, and don't be shy about it. If you have a question about the tank then feel free to state it as well. And who says that my knowledge is not limited?

Ingo


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 76

Well, doesn't look like I did a lot this weekend, but I did quite a bit.

During the week, half the Blyxa floated up. So I removed any Wisteria that used to be planted behind the Blyxa and stuffed all pieces of Blyxa in this extended area.

Overall, the tank is not doing too well. Neglect in ferting is probably the reason why the Star Grass is not growing that well, although it looks nice in the picture. And the Barteri is getting bigger and bigger, that cannot go well much longer. Let me tell you folks, if you have a barteri like this one you better have a 200G tank if you want to keep it for a few years

That's it,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank Today



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Let me tell you folks, if you have a barteri like this one you better have a 200G tank if you want to keep it for a few years
I think a lot of plants can get that way if you give them what they want and need!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 77

Not done anything to the tank during the week except for the 2 x dosing routine. I think the Star Grass does not like the reduction.

But I noticed yesterday that the tank looked a little more yellowish that I believe to remember how it looked in the past. This was during high-light time, so I thought that maybe the 5,000K bulbs are at the end of their usefulness. So, this morning I replaced them with 10,000K bulbs that I had since I set up the tank and never used.

What a difference in color of the tank. Soooooo much more blue compared to the green before.

Here it is at full light, with all the 6,700 and 10,000 turned on, compare it to the picture above from last week.

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Week 77



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Here is the male Pearl during the water change, a phase in which I only have the midday lights on, meaning the 10,000K as of today:

Attached Image:

Pearl



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And here is a shot of the center of the tank, with the Apistos firting and the Espei looking on.

With regards to plants in the shot, the Star Grass is not doing to well, the Pennywort is doing too well, and the Barteri is still a giant,

Attached Image:

Tank Scene



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Last shot for this series, the Pearls and some of the Rainbows during the water change.

I wonder what they are looking at, or what they are thinking (if anything) while looking at me with that camera, LOL.

That's it,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Rainbow Pearls



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Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2007 21:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The color looks a lot more realistic IMO with that 10,000K on there. That's the mix I have on my tank, one 6700 and one 10000. I really like that combination, though I am used to the actinic/10000K that I use on the SW tank. That tank looks white to me, and the planted tank looks a little yellow, but I s'pose that's the way it's supposed to be, right?

Nice clear pics BTW. love the shot of the apistos and espei.



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Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2007 21:45Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Actually,

Let me add this zoom of the female Pearl from the last shot, it is rare that I get them in such a nice angle. I think she is looking right at me

Ingo

Attached Image:

Female Pearl



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Ah Matty,

Only now do I see your input, thank you very much. Yeah, I must have gotten lucky on these shots, or maybe the light made a difference as well. BTW, none of the shots were taken with the zoom lense.

Thanks,

Ingo


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Looks good Ingo. Looking at the pic, how 'bout bringing the Blyxa more to the midground, breaking up the fern on the right and putting it where the Blyxa was. Add some wood into the giant Anubias area for constrast. It looks very good as is, just throwing some ideas out there from where I'm sitting. The pic of the tank scene is really nice.

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I wonder what they are looking at, or what they are thinking (if anything) while looking at me with that camera, LOL.



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I think she honestly likes me , it is not all about food

Tetratech - I think I have to part at least with some of the Barteri as it has reached its maximum size tolerable for this tank layout. I could certainly convert the tank in an Anubias only tank, but that is not my intention.

Once cut up I think I can see better what and how I can make the island more appealing.

Thanks,

Ingo


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 78

This weeks update is earlier than usual as I took yesterday off from work so I have enough time to work on the Barteri.

And so I did , for better or worse. I needed the wife to help me with getting the huge plant out, then I trimmed off all bad leaves and cut the sucker up into about 10 pieces.

Here is the tank last night:

Attached Image:

Tank After Trim



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I also trimmed the Star Grass and some of the Alternanthera. In addition, I added some small stems of Hygro back into the tank, they may or may not stay, I don't know yet.

Here is a look at the new Barteri group (as now they are more than one plant I assume it is a group):

Attached Image:

Barteri



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And - because I was done earlier than I expected I decided to stop by the LFS and see if they have something of interest.

This is what I found:

Attached Image:

Cories



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I don't know in which tank I will eventually place them, for now they are of course in the QT.

Maybe I keep them in there for a while (like a few months) or as long as I don't get any other fish for QT.

Attached Image:

Cory I



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These cories have been labeled Corydoras julii - does anyone believe they are of a different species? I know quite a few cories look rather similar, so speak up.

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Cory II



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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2007 13:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I saw them in the LFS in a tank further up. Out of the 10 or so that were in there 3 were active and the rest was hanging out in a corner.

I think the sales lady and I managed to get the active ones, but because 3 is not enough I asked for one of the lazy bums as well.

Attached Image:

Cory III



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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2007 13:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So - since adding them late yesterday afternoon I mostly see 3 of them perusing the tank, usually as a team (that's what I was going for). But the 4th one is mostly hanging out and only once joined in.

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Cory IV



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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2007 13:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
For most fish I would take this as not so good of a sign, but I will give it a few days to see if he/she perks up.

BTW, I am not referring to any specific fish in any of these pictures, they all still look alike to me, with one exception as one of them has a slightly different dorsal fin marking (can be seen in the pic above where they are in the bag).

Attached Image:

Cory V



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Last but not least,

The only shot so far that I got with more than one of them in the pic and at least half way in focus

I guess the macro lens will not do it for such kind of shots.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Cory VI



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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2007 13:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Ingo,
I think I'd be concerned about the "lazy bum" one. They
should be swimming, as a group, all over that new tank
investigating and looking for food. If the one is just
hanging out, I would suspect some illness.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2007 16:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think you are right Frank, and I am concerned.

I will give him one more day to "catch up" with the other ones. This morning he is still not swimming, actually he is breathing harder than yesterday.

I am not into treatment, so I may have to take action sooner than I thought.

I should have listened to my instincts in only getting the swimmers, but then I was worried that the FPlers will jump down my throat because I was not getting enough of them.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2007 16:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I was worried that the FPlers will jump down my throat because I was not getting enough of them.


Instead it will be because apparently julii cories don't exist from what I've read, not in the states anyways. I THINK they(the cory people) always say that what you are buying is the trilineatus or something like that. I'm not much of a cory guy though. Do a search on julii cories in the bottom feeders forum and you'll see what I mean.

I like the hacked down version of the anubias barterii. Looks great with the wood poking through again.



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Ah, here's a link for ya with a little back and forth on the subject. I'm not sure why it's necessary to argue the point. The two species are so nearly identical that dissection would probably be needed to tell two apart. Honestly, those that say they aren't can't be sure they aren't either. It's like a lot of the saltwater coral arguments.



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They definately look more like C. Trilineatus to me. I have a group of five of them. I like them alot and they are freindly to my panda shoal. They are alot hardier than my pandas also. I think you will enjoy them.
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks Matty for the comments on the tank and the info on the Julii. Yeah, I don't care either what Cory mine are, as long as they look nice and don't cost me a fortune.

About 5 min ago I removed the lazy one, he didn't make it. He must have died within the last 2 hours or so as that was the last time I checked on them. He seemed to display some reddish streaks internally on the left side, mid-body, only.

So, down to 3 now, but they are party boys

Ingo

EDIT: Thanks PP as well, must have added your entry while I was typing


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Sorry about the loss, Ingo. I've come to trust my gut whenever selecting a fish for myself or a customer. My mind will notice something I can't point out about the behavior or look of a fish at the store and 9 times out of 10 I'll be pulling it out later in the day. Most of the customers I frequently wait on have come to trust my gut too .



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Thanks Matty,

Yeah - should have trusted my guts as well I guess. I am kind of glad that I trusted them (the guts) when I did NOT buy the male Cac Double Orange that they had in a tank as well. He was at least twice the size of mine (the addict, that is) and would have made an end to the bubble eater in no time.

So, back to the cories, now I am worried whenever I see one just sitting on the substrate as I assume he/she is the next to go. This happened last night, but after feeding I saw all 3 digging for food, good.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
I know what you guys mean about the "gut" thing. After a while you just know. I've had mixed success with Corys even though some say they are the easiest to keep. For a while I couldn't keep any alive, but I blamed that on the corrupted eco with all of this word po4 levels. I'm sure for corys that was a nightmare. I did have one live at least 18 months, but even that's not that long. Interesting during the last water change I found 6 otos and 6 amanos. The otos have been in there a really long time.

Just goes to show you everyone's tanks are different for fish and plants.

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I actually was scared of getting Cories a while back as I heard that they should always be added to a settled tank (as they don't show signs of illness that quickly).

Well, this morning the three remaining ones are doing fine, at least that's what it looks like.

I will add a few entries to the 20G QT log with new pictures of the tank.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
The tank looks good after the trim. Much nicer (not that it the "before" wasn't nice). You've good a good shape going there at the moment.

I like the corys. I have sterbais, but whatever yours are, they are much prettier.

I've had pretty good luck with my sterbais & I hope you do too. I have quite a bunch in mine, but despite what I was told, they don't all hang out together, even though they are all the same breed. They hang out in sub groups & sometimes singularly. As they all look alike, I can't tell if the sub group combination is a constant or if they chop & change.

Sorry for the loss of one poor guy

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Thanks Robyn for the compliments on the tank and the fishies. I don't think that sterbais look worse than juliis (false ones, ), they have a very similar appearance.

Ingo


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Nice corys LF They'll be a good addition to your tank.

I've had similar experiences with seeing inactive fish in LFS tanks. But I do applaud you for trying to keep them in a big enough school. Keep an eye out for them whenever you go to the LFS, maybe you can eventually build the school up to 8-10 healthy individuals. Then they'd be in full frat house mode






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Thanks NowherMan6,

Yeah, if the 3 that I have pull through just fine then I may add a few more, time will tell.

Strange thing is, I checked the one of my catalogs (the Dr's) this weekend and saw this fish offered for $8. Given that my LFS (AF) is usually way overpriced, I have to consider that they sold me a "bad" batch, as they charged me only $5 a fish.

Ingo


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Strange thing is, I checked the one of my catalogs (the Dr's) this weekend and saw this fish offered for $8. Given that my LFS (AF) is usually way overpriced, I have to consider that they sold me a "bad" batch, as they charged me only $5 a fish.
Not always the case. Sometimes the deals get passed on. I know thats how its works with my store at times.

Very nice fish by the way. I used to keep corries but its beena while. I never had problems with them. Cute fish. I think I like Loaches better though.

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/sidn1.jpg

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2007 18:10Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nah Wings,

Nothing is cheap in that LFS without a reason, and passing on rebates is not a known entity there.

That loach in your link is nice, a Chain Loach? Do you have them (as I assume one would buy a school)?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2007 18:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Looks like a monkey loach to me. Small, active, and expensive loaches. And yes, I'd get at least a few of them.



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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2007 21:35Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I do not have them. We have them at my store but I can't really buy anything right now. I graduate in a month and may or may not be moving to who knows where. Someday I would like to have a nice group of them though.

The ones at the store are called Monkey botia's but I think they go by many different common names. Right now I think they are going for about 8 bucks.

Loaches do, do best in groups. Quite social creatures.



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Weekly Tank Update - Week 79

Not much to report about this tank, all thoughts are with the 20QT which seems to have caught an illness, 2 fish dead this week and 2 more suffering (see log).

About this tank here: I cleaned the 2028 filter this weekend, haven't done this in quite a while (at least 2 to 3 months ago was the last time).

Otherwise, I found the 5th Nana Petite (buried under some Pearl Grass) and put it in the 20QT (before I started to panik about the tank).

Here is the tank this weekend,

That's it,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Week 79



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Weekly Tank Update - Week 80

Just like in the log for the 40G, here is a quick summary of the tank development over time, in this case in 20 week intervals from the start.

Here is the tank after setup:

Attached Image:

Week 0



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20 weeks later, there was quite some growth, wood had been added, rocks had been moved, plants had been moved, algae had come and gone and come again, in short - one may call this the Dark Ages of this tank

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Week 20



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By week 40, the Dark Ages became very dark, the tank was in its least organized stage. Things were going ok, but nothing great was happening. I believe that at least 3 Ingo-Style makeovers had happend at that stage already.

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Week 40



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By week 60, the tank had reached its current layout, I can't believe it was that long ago that I had the last make-over. I would like you to look at the Narrow Leaf Java Fern and then compare it with the next shot after this one.

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Week 60



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Now here is a shot from this weekend, week 80.

As you can see, the few strands of Fern have turned into a solid bush, even after I trimmed quite a few pieces off to propagate in the 40 and 29 (and trade at the NJAGC).

The Barteri also had to be trimmed (last week) and cut into various pieces, only now do I notice that the group is actually wider than it was before. Also, I notice that the tall Alternanthera stems could use a trim.

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Tank Now



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Here are a few detail shots of the tank, not too many, I promise:

Beginning with the Blyxa - This plant is a blessing and a monster at the same time. It looks very nice as a group, if it stays down. My gravel substrate is not very good for holding the plants down, and every week I have to stick about 10 to 15 of them back into the ground. There is almost never a day when I don't have to do this.

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Blyxa



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Here is a look at the center of the center. The Star Grass is not doing too great, although this doesn't show itself too well in the pictures.

You may note the re-occurance of Hygro, I saved some from the 20G when I redid that tank and planted it back into this one (where it originally came from). I know I cannot really maintain this plant in here as it is too close in shape (and color) to the Fern.

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Center



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
The fern in itself has become the main hang-out place for the Espei, or the area around it to be more percise. At nighttime I see some Rainbows and a Pearl "sleeping" amongst the leaves, seems like the fish appreciate its protecive nature.

It is due for a trim though.

Attached Image:

Fern



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH

PLEASE LOOK AT THE PREVIOUS PAGE FOR FULL TANK SHOTS OVER THE LAST 80 WEEKS AND MORE DETAIL SHOTS

Here is a look at my diffuser, based on a comment I made in tetratech's log. As I noted there, last week I gave it the first bleach bath in quite a few months. I haven't had the plate this shiny in a looooooong time.


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Diffuser



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The last shot for now shows you the most colorful of the fish in the tank, the male Apisto. He is swimming on the left side of the tank where I have the most intense bubble collection from the diffuser. All bubbles in this shot are CO2 as it has been taken before the water change and I only see O bubbles right after the water change (with the exception of the NL Fern that bubbles in the evening).

That's it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Apisto in CO2



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The tank looks very good. Are you planning any changes soon?

Beginning with the Blyxa - This plant is a blessing and a monster at the same time. It looks very nice as a group, if it stays down


Very jealous of your Blyxa even if it does float up. This is one of those plants that simply doesn't grow in my tank. I think it actually looked better under my previous lighting system 2x96 instead of 4 x 65.

Stargrass - Didn't you say you were dosing less these days, I think that will show in stargrass very quickly.

Diffusor - I'm gonna start trying your excel idea I always forget at water change. Are you lighting the end of tubing to secure it to the diffusor? What's with the rubberband?

Is there any algae issues at all these days.



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I was going to ask about the algae too, but I assume we'd hear about it, so I would guess things are going well.

Nice little recap LF. It's always interesting to go back and look at how you got here. That fern definitely does need trimming. I guess I would say I liked the compactness more around week 60 than 80. This week just didn't look much like and island anymore. I dunno where you are going with it though.

I was looking back to the beginning of my 50G. Oh, you guys were so very against the fishless cycle, especially bensaf. It worked out really well IMO. I never saw any real amounts of algae.



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Didn't you say you were dosing less these days, I think that will show in stargrass very quickly

I have thought about that, as around the time when I reduced to two doses per week the decline started. But I think I can handle the tank without it, if need be.

Are you lighting the end of tubing to secure it to the diffusor? What's with the rubberband?

That is only to hold the hose in place, and the rubberband is to attach the not-so-well fitting Air Tube suction cup to the diffuser, it previously always fell off.

Is there any algae issues at all these days

None in particular, there is a little hair stuff on the wood and old anubias leaves, once in a while a little BBA (spot treatment once kills it right off), and some green spot on the glass.

It worked out really well IMO

- Good for you. Oh wait, is that the tank where loads of the fish died?

Ingo


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Yeah, loads of fish died...during a prolonged interval starting more than a month after I put them in the tank. I'd think they would have died sooner if they had a problem with the cycle.



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i know this is a thread for people unlike me but i have to say i wish my plant was as nice as all of yours! ive been having trouble starting with my plants any ways goood job with the aquarium!!!!!

33 gallon 7 neon tetras-5 platys-3 bleeding heart tetras-2 corys-1 rainbow shark-2 L83 gibby plecos
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i know this is a thread for people unlike me



No platy boy, this is a thread for everybody. If you read through the massive amount of info in the last 130 pages you will see quite a few sections where this tank and its plants didn't do all that well (based on my impact, while learning).

Anyway - All,

Sorry for not posting in a while, I had replaced the viewing of my tanks with a more Amano like landscape as can be seen below. Tank updates will follow sometime later

Ingo

Attached Image:

Iwagumawuma



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Weekly Tank Update - Week 82

There was no update last weekend as I went on vacation (see above). Just like with the 40G, I did not do a water change this weekend either as I will do one later in the week to prepare for the next Club meeting at my place the coming Saturday.

Seems like all fish are well, but when I came home there were maybe 20 Blyxa stems floating around the tank. They sure stick lousy in gravel

Here is the tank this weekend (after putting all the Blyxa back in),

Ingo

Attached Image:

Week 82



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I came home from work today ad half mine had come up. I dunno what's up with that. They just don't seem to root at all. Mine are turning a bit red, so they may be worth it in the end.

The tank is looking very healthy, very nice.



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i would just like to say your tank looks awesome and tommorrow on my day off im gonna have a look throughthe whole thread from start to finish to see how it all came about!
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fandan,

Thanks a lot, I appreciate it. I noticed that for whatever reason there seem to be some images missing around page 50 or so, but the text is all there (with some minor issues in the beginning as it was written in our old site and certain characters did not carry over into the new one).

Take you time with reading all of this, and enjoy the lighter notes of the Plant Crazies ().


Matty,

As I mentioned in the 40G log, the red also seem to mean less vertical growth. I am not so sure if I like it that much, it almost looks stunted

Ingo


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I have only had my blyxa for a couple of weeks now. I reallyl havenet had any floating issues.

Do you happen to have any close ups of how this spreads? Does it just get bushy?

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Hope your holiday was fun

I've been lucky too, with non floating blyxa. LF, this tank doesn't have Eco Complete, does it? Do you have the same issue in 40G breeder, which I think does have the Eco?

Cheers
TW
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No Wings, I don't have a close-up right now. My Blyxa spreads by growing multiple stems (branches) on one base stem. These stems have no roots, of course, and when one of the bigger ones comes out then replanting it often means that the branch breaks off. So - on I go and replant the two sections seperately, which causes the float (mostly).

Robyn, to my regret, this tank has plain gravel (with Laterite in bottom part) and not EC. But that is more for looks than the Blyxa. It does not do too well in my 40G either anymore and I believe this started with my light changes there. Some is floating up while others don't grow as fast as they used to. What can I say, Blyxa does not seem to be my fortune, or I have to use the weights on each stem in the future (and I have about 20 to 30 stems in this tank).

Ingo


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Thanks for the blyxa info LF. Right after saying that I haven't had any float ups... I saw one in my tank this morning. It can stay there until I do my water change....

So far it hasn't been too bad for me. I got most of the blyxa with a good set of roots. It think that helps matters.

BTW!
I have new pictures!!!!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 83

Not too much to report about this tank, the blyxa keeps on floating up and all attempts to settle it conclude in smaller and smaller stems.

I told the gang at yesterday's NJAGC meeting that I begin to be bored with the tank layout, I think nothing much has changed in about 6 months now, like 27 weeks straight with the same concept. Maybe it is time for a change soon.

Here is the tank,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Week 83



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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I told the gang at yesterday's NJAGC meeting that I begin to be bored with the tank layout, I think nothing much has changed in about 6 months now, like 27 weeks straight with the same concept. Maybe it is time for a change soon.



I was wondering when the next LF tank makeover challenge would take place. I really like the current layout, but as always, I can't wait for the new one!



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Maybe it is time for a change soon.
How about adding some rock work and a different forground plant?

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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2007 13:48Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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How about adding some rock work and a different forground plant?


That would not be a makeover that is worthy the "Ingo-Style" classification

It will be a while until I have a solid vision on what to do, so far I only have a concept for maybe a 3rd of the tank.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Apr-2007 18:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Actually...
I vote for another tank, and leave these the way they are.


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Maybe something small...

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I told the gang at yesterday's NJAGC meeting that I begin to be bored with the tank layout, I think nothing much has changed in about 6 months now, like 27 weeks straight with the same concept. Maybe it is time for a change soon.


It's about time!

I think start out by removing the black background. That's very 1990's Amano, it's time to go 2000's Amano style


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Hi Ingo, I just recently picked up your thread and I thank that your tank looks GREAT! I like the idea of a change, but I like it just how it is. (But I'm not the one who has to look at it everyday )
As for me, I dream my tank up, put all the plants in there, and let it grow, grow, grow (at least I hope they do!)

Great job and keep up the GREAT work!


~Morgan~
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Wingsdlc
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I think start out by removing the black background. That's very 1990's Amano, it's time to go 2000's Amano style
What is 2000 Amano? White?

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH


Haha, I guess all I have to do is to threaten another Ingo-Style redo to get some entries and life back into this log.

NowherMan6 - yeah, what is 2000 Amano? White, no background, rimless, or what?

MoFish - Thanks for the input, I always appreciate comments from people as it shows me who is actually still looking at my tank logs (and who is new to them). I am basically doing the same then you do, think up my layout and the let it grow.

Wings and Frank - I don't think small changes will keep me occupied for long . I will perform some changes this weekend though, most certainly I will dump almost all of the Blyxa and add some of the Ferns from the 40G in that spot.

Actually, changing the background of the tank is easy enough, all I would need is some new cardboard in another color. Maybe I will do this some time soon as well.

Thanks to all so far,

Ingo

EDIT: Did you guys see that I added new entries to the 20 and 29 log last weekend? I guess the info there doesn't interest you at all


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Wingsdlc
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most certainly I will dump almost all of the Blyxa
Want to mail me some???

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Wings,

Trust me, you would not be happy with the package. I pretty much lost any root system these plants ever had, the constant replanting caused serious damage to the stems. Over time, these plants have gotten smaller and smaller on me instead of growing. I believe that even the strongest and tallest of them right now are maybe half the size they were when I got them a few months back.

Packing this stuff and sending it to you would be a waste of my time and your money for shipping (I would not charge you for the plants anyway).

Ingo


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Ok. No problem. Thanks for being up front about it.

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I am so up front that I even tell you that I would not dare to swap these plants at our NJAGC meetings, that how sad they are

I say - Out in the garbage with them

Ingo


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Wingsdlc
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Pretty sad I must say. I guess I will have to try and talk to my other guy.

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Post InfoPosted 03-May-2007 21:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 84

This week saw a continuation of the Blyxa floating contest, I said enough alright!!!

So, this weekend, after a half-major redo of the 40G (report will follow in a few min), I took all Blyxa out and placed some narrow leaf Java Fern on a piece of wood and filled that space (btw, the fern on the right, it turns out, is not narrow leaf but needle leaf). On top of it, the redo of the 40G also allowed me to add some Anubias Nana in front of the fern and all the way to the right of the tank.

I am most astonished how little was needed to remove the entire Island Effect.

Here you go:

Attached Image:

Week 84



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Here is a closer look at the new Fern group. It did actually not take long until the Espei decided that this is an excellent spawning spot. But I think I have seen them eat the eggs.

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Fern



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And because all is so pretty, here is, for the maybe 20th time since introduced, the male Apisto viejita II, as colorful as usual, LOL.

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Apisto



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And - at least as often as I have shown you something like the viejita did I show you something like this, a flowering Nana.

But I found this one very nice, as the background is better than green or black.

That's it for this tank, now on to a smoke and then the 40G.

Oh, and look at the 20G log for new Cories in the QT, if you haven't done so already.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Nana Flower



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I am most astonished how little was needed to remove the entire Island Effect.


I personally think it looks even better. My suggestion for what it's worth, add some large size rocks right in front of where the anubias meets the new fern group on the left and maybe one large rock somewhere on the right. This will break up all the green created by the wisteria carpet and add additional depth to the tank. Looks good!

My Scapes
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~I am with Tetra with the rocks idea. You seem to have a lot of green!

~I also like the looks of the tank now better than before.

~It would probably look a little better if you grouped your Reds a little tighter.

~How often are you getting Anubias flowers? My nana is starting to pump them out fairly often now. It is at its 3rd one in the past couple of months. Once they open up they really don't seem to last long in this tank. Maybe a couple of days at most then they close back up.



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Post InfoPosted 07-May-2007 14:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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The higher the tech the shorter the lifespan of an Anubias flower, at least in my experience. Makes sense anyway as all plants grow faster.

Yeah, I am not so certain that I understand the rock positions. Also, I don't think this is a long-term solution in the first place. I didn't even intend to "modify" the tank, all I wanted was to throw out the darn floating Blyxa and save some of the Fern

Ingo


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EditedEdited by MoFish
I like the change Ingo; it looks nice more "spread out". I am also with Tetratech with some rocks. Me personally, I like having big rocks that get bordered by some plants, but tetra's idea sounds better for your tank than mine, it seems too drastic. But then again, that's just up your alley, isn't it?
I am going to go out on a limb here, but I think you should keep the tank just how it is, it looks great...but from what I gather from the people here, it is going to change MUCH more than that!


~Morgan~
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Morgan,

I gather that you know about MTS, and redoing my tanks is fighting this habbit. I already have 4 tanks and under moderate conditions they occupy me more than I like. But once in a while I get the crazy idea to add another tank, but eventually I come to my senses (ok, so maybe I add some day a nano).

But when things go well, the maintenance and worries go down and then I get bored. The same is true for a setup where the final version has been reached and all that is left is trimming it back into shape each week. And all that while there are soooooo many nice setups that one can try.

As you can see, I am trying to convince myself that these redos are good , hope it works (so far it did),

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Ingo,

I just got through looking at the sixth meeting of the NJAGC. Whoever put that little summary together on the website did a really nice job. Wonder if nowher was in attendance

I have to say the 40G was more impressive to me in those pics for some reason. I like the transition shot, but I think it's in reverse. The plants didn't grow since the last meeting, they got scalped.

Anyway good stuff!

My Scapes
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Thanks tetratech for the input,

Yeah - Joe is doing a great job on taking the pictures during the meetings and then throwing together a humorous little story about the event. And he makes the HTML tables too

I can't tell you if NowherMan6 was in attendance, he is always incognito,

The meetings are always a lot of fun and it for sure is worthwhile to join the club if you live in the area. Next meeting will be this Saturday (already) and I will trade in some of my Java Ferns (narrow and needle) that I had left over from the 40G trim (scalping, ).

Ingo


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I can't tell you if NowherMan6 was in attendance, he is always incognito
He must be the guy in the mask...

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Post InfoPosted 09-May-2007 17:01Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wow, it looks a lot different, even though not much has changed. I also like it this way. Very cool, have fun at the club meeting. I wish we had a good club 'round these parts.



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Yeah Matty,

I was actually shocked how different it looks now. I could not have imagined that the simple addition of the fern and a few Anubias will completely alter the appearance. It gives me new ideas on what I can do with the tank without having to go the Ingo-Style Redo route, although - the 2 year anniversary of the tank will be in September and what would be better than to start all over

Ingo


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I can't tell you if NowherMan6 was in attendance, he is always incognito,

The meetings are always a lot of fun and it for sure is worthwhile to join the club if you live in the area. Next meeting will be this Saturday (already) and I will trade in some of my Java Ferns (narrow and needle) that I had left over from the 40G trim


First of all, I put my picture up on the NJAGC site, now the whole world can see my ugly mug.

Second, if I knew you were giving away some of your NL ferns this weekend I wouldn't have booked this trip to Michigan!


Back in the saddle!
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now the whole world can see my ugly mug.



I don't think so, albeit I haven't tested it, I think you have to be a member to see the member listing (and the forums anyway, or not?)

Anyway, NowherMan6, what are you after, my narrow leaf (on left in this tank now) or my needle leaf (on the right)? The latter I can have you pick up during this coming week, the former may have to wait a little. If you could make certain that you will pick some up then I could withhold either or from the swap (or bring in less).

Ingo


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I wouldn't have booked this trip to Michigan!
Where at in MI? You are now on my grounds!!

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Weekly Tank Update - Week 85

Well, the tank is showing a few minor, and maybe one major change this weekend, maybe you can spot some of them in the full tank shot, otherwise I will make mention in the detail pictures:

Attached Image:

Full Tank - Week 85



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Post InfoPosted 13-May-2007 23:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is a close look at the major change:

Besides the trimming of the Star Grass, and the replanting of some of the Alternanthera stems, I added about 12 stems of Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' - formerly known as Ludwigia sp. 'Cuba'. The tops of most of the stems seem to have recently received not enough light, the leaves are to broad and short and green. I will see how the plant does in my tank.

To support the growth I added 3 plant sticks in the center area.

Attached Image:

New Center



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Post InfoPosted 14-May-2007 00:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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That last shot was taken pretty much as soon as planting was completed, btw - for a change this plant was not a trade but a purchase.

Here is a wider and better look at the main part of the tank, a day later.

Attached Image:

Center



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Here is a look at the left side of the tank, the change there is that I added even more of the narrow leaf java fern to make the group deeper.

Also, on the way left in front of the diffuser is a crypt (only one leaf visible in the shot, sorry), don't remember its name, that I got two NJAGC meetings back and had hidden underneath the Anubias forest.

Attached Image:

Left Tank Part



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Here is a look at the right side of the tank, the main fish hangout area as you can see

Changes here include the stripping of the needle leaf java fern babies of the leaves, and the move of the Hygro out from the center all the way to the right.

Attached Image:

Right Tank Part



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Here are a few detail shots, first up is one of the Otos. If I am not mistaken the 6 survived the initiation about a year and a half ago and it seems like at least some of them are still around. Of course it is impossible to find all of them at once in this tank.

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Oto



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Here is a close-up of the new Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba'. This stem has maintained the leaf structure all the way to the top, but overall I think the plant will hopefully be a little more pinkish/reddish on top.

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Cuba



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Here is a lone Espei in front of the right group, I think it is a female. Just check her body color, it is of an orange with a yellow tint rather than a red tint that the males have.

Attached Image:

Espei



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Lastly, for now, here is a shot of the daytime hangout spot for quite a few of the Espei, in the leaves of the Needle Leaf Java Fern. The give a nice contrast to the green leaves.

That's it for now, I have to add hundreds (ok, maybe 20) pictures to the 40G now as something bad happened there during the week.

Also, check the 20G and 29G logs for updates,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Peek-A-Boo



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Post InfoPosted 14-May-2007 00:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nice work, I like it a lot - more spread out and a "lush" look to it. Initially the first thing I noticed is the redish/pinkish plants seemed closer together. Don't know if you changed this or not, but that's what I saw (it was probablly because I haven't checked the log in a while and I didn't remember the last layout.

I still am surprised, though, that you haven't done a major redo yet. I'll bet that the "regulars" are all on their toes waiting for the big change.


~Morgan~
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I still am surprised, though, that you haven't done a major redo yet. I'll bet that the "regulars" are all on their toes waiting for the big change.


Morgan,

You sure seem to know me well by now

The red plants have been moved together, that is correct. They are Alternanthera reineckii, I have one in my 29G low tech as well as an experiment.

And about a redo "Ingo-Style" - I don't want to promise too much, but something may be coming up in a while, maybe not as major as a complete strip down. As you can see, I went out and actually bought a new plant species, something I haven't done in a while. That is a sign that I am "experimenting" and of things to come.

Thanks for the entry,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 14-May-2007 00:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Cool pics LF, I'm interested in seeing how that ludwiggia does, and if the plant sticks help. I've thought about using some in the area I keep my red plants. I'm not real thrilled with how the eco complete supports the plant growth compared to flourite I've decided.



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I'm not real thrilled with how the eco complete supports the plant growth compared to flourite I've decided.

You know, I never had Flourite, but I think I can say the same for Gravel with a layer of Laterite. I don't know why, my only current assumption is the high density of the substrate and the struggles for roots to push their way through them. Just thinking out loud,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 14-May-2007 13:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I haven't ever tried Eco but I really do like my flourite. Other than the initial set up with it.... Rinse rinse rinse... rinse the flourite.... rinse the flourite....

Opps, didn't rinse it enough and I had chocolate milk for a week!

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Post InfoPosted 15-May-2007 13:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah Wings, that and the color of Flourite are the reasons why I will not add it to my tanks. As a matter of fact, I am currently debating (with myself, that is) what substrate would be the best for the 125G if I wish to make it more "show" like.

Seems like there are only 3 options:

- Eco
- ADA Substrate
- Black small Gravel with Laterite

Ingo


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So you don't like the color of Flourite? I think it looks pretty nice. You really don't see it much once the tank is filled in anyways.

The bucket method of rinsing it is for the birds but you can put it in a fine mesh net and rinse it with ease with much better results.

Have you looking into this?
http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Onyx%20Sand.html

You have a pretty low PH/KH right? This might help with that as it's full of calcium.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 15-May-2007 17:07Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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hmmm, seems like eco is falling out of favour with some of the planted gang now. Wish I hadn't rushed in & bought it already. Agree with LF about Flourite - both the need for rinsing and the colour. Many people like the colour, but I am stubborn for black and can't imagine another colour substrate creeping into any of my tanks.



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Post InfoPosted 16-May-2007 00:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Weekly Tank Update - Week 86

Not much has happened with this tank either during the last week, except that I added a few plants in temporary positions. I will mention them a little later on.

To compare, here is a shot from last week again:

Attached Image:

7 Days Ago



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And here is the tank last night.

I wish to point your attention to the group of Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' in the center of the tank that was planted a week ago. Do you notice the growth. I have to say that it surprised me quite a bit.

Attached Image:

Tank This Weekend



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Here is a closer look at the tank's center area showing you the Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' stems. Notice that some of them did not grow by as much as others did. Also, there is some Star Grass between this group and the Alternanthera, but this one is not doing too well and quickly falling out of my favor.

Attached Image:

Center



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Here is a shot from the top of the tank looking down onto the Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba'. The tall stems all show signs of having been at least half way grown emersed, the leaf shape is oval and much greener. As such I conclude that this is the reason why they grow faster.

Attached Image:

Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba'



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Here is a shot of another addition to the tank, made on Wednesday, called Hydrocotyle verticillata , the pennywort that grows flat ().

I put it for the time being in small groups mostly on the left side of the tank, I will eventually - if it does well - place it as a midground highligh group somewhere.

Attached Image:

Hydrocotyle verticillata



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Here is another plant that I added, but sadly it was in an aweful state when I got it, Pogostemon stellatus'broad'. It pretty much lost all leaves in the transport, but I decided to plant the 5 stems anyway. It appears as if at least 3 of them may be able to recover.

In the background in this shot, barely visible, is another addition. This one seemed to have been grown all emersed and I don't know if it will transition ok, Lobelia cardinalis 'sm form'. We will see ...

Attached Image:

Additions



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Last but not least, a shot of 4 of my 5 Neon Dwarf Rainbows. These guys have been a stable entertainer in this tank for quite a while now, I am glad I got them.

That's it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Rainbows



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Hi,
Beautiful tank...
Re, the discussion about Flourite. In reading the July
issue of Aquarium Fish International Magazine,
Seachem has an ad for Flourite and it now comes in black
dark red, the customary red, and black sand.
So, they have listened to their consumers.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2007 02:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Frank for the compliment on the tank and in particular also for the info on the Flourite. I will have to check that out!

And I see that my two year membership bar has appeared, excellent. Happy Anniversary to myself

Now I will soon have to extend my premie, right tetratech?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2007 02:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF, i find it interesting that to my eyes your tank seems to be coming full circle. It's become very reminiscent of the tank when first set-up and grown in. The current java fern group spreading left reminds me of the Apon group that used to be there.


Back in the saddle!
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EditedEdited by Dr. Bonke
The tank is looking very good Ingo, I think I like it better than the island you had for a long time. The hydrocotyle is a cute plant, I had it for a while when I first set up my tank, but in the light setting I had at the time it didn't do very well and got quickly covered in algae. I hope it'll work better in your hands.
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Thanks guys for the input

NowherMan6 - Yeah, seems like the tank has come full circle, at least from the distance. Upon close inspection, the plants are not the same (like the Apon that constantly shot out flower stems to the surface and eventually didn't grow any new underwater leaves) and in particular the algae is not the same, as in "I don't have a major problem right now."

But nevertheless, full circle it is, as such it will be time for a change soon

Dr. - Thanks for stopping in, doesn't happen too often that you place your comment in my log(s). How was your light when you had the hydrocotyle and it didn't do well? Too low, too high, or plain wrong?

And how is your tank coming along?

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Dr. Bonke
 
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Hey Ingo,

I haven't been posting much at all in the last few months, and with an upcoming month-long vacation I probably won't be posting much in the near future either. I don't have terribly much time these days for internet and reading these forums and a couple of other things is often just what I manage. As you guys are in general well on top of things with good and helpful replies, I generally have been nodding to myself and moved on to the next thread without taking time to write something if I didn't feel that I could add something more useful. Recently, I figured that this atitude may not be the best way to keep people here since the place will seem "empty" without many people posting, so I'm going to try and change that a little (with the exception of my one-month America tour next month ).

Anyway, back when I still had some hydrocotyle I had only 72 watts of light (with reflectors) over my 65g tank. So it was a fairly low light setup, I also didn't really fertilize and didn't have CO2. All in all quite different from the way you're running your tank, so I expect you'll have a better experience with it.

Currently my tank is going fairly steady, there haven't been many changes since I last wrote something in the log. Some of the fish are getting old and start to show it, like for example the rummynose tetras, which have been there for 2½ years now and slowly they are starting to die off. My plan is that after the summer vacation I will transfer all the fish to the smaller tank where I used to have the angels (I brought those to the LFS three weeks ago and gave that a thorough cleaning) and then empty the big tank for a remake, since it's really starting to show its age. My wife has become obsessed with Discus fish and I think I'll remake it in such a way that it'll have a good look for the big fish. Still many plants, but less like the Dutch way. I still have to think on it. I'll probably write down the progress once I get to that point.

Post InfoPosted 22-May-2007 15:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey Ingo,

I like your tank. I hope you don't mind, but there is no way I am reading over 300 pages! Hygrophila difformis as a foreground plant is something you don't see every day! Your Ludwigia cuba doesn't have any color to it. Its all green! I am suprised you are not going with HC as a foreground like so many other people now. If you ar a member of the New Jersey Plant club, I'm surprised you don't hang out at APC... or do you?

Nice job on the tank.

Best regards

Robert Hudson
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Thanks for the input guys

Dr. - I can't wait for the display of your new not-so-Dutch layout. I also will follow the Discuss development in your tank with great interest, not because I want to have some myself but because it will dramatically change your tank-involvement. I would assume that way more maintenance, aka water changes, will be required, plus all the feeding of goodies, like beef hearts and stuff.

Robert - Thank you so much for your compliments and input on the tank. Here are a few comments with regards to your statements:
- The Cuba is still new in the tank and has been grown at least partially emersed when I got it. It is starting by now to show some changes in leaf structure and color, I will try to post better pictures here once the change has become significant enough to notice in a photo. In the meantime, I am sure I will have to trim the group at least once, the fist stems are almost breaking the surface by now.
- I wish I could take credit for the Wisteria foreground idea, but it was tetratech (a member here and at APC, if I am not mistaken) who showed me the way. I more or less copied him with this approach.
- When I created the current design of the tank I needed fast growers to help me settle in asap. The wisteria foreground was introduced for that purpose. HC, albeit an awesome plant, would have taken way too long to fill that huge area, not to mention that I have my doubts it would have done well in my gravel substrate. Once I switch over to a finer substrate (maybe someday) I may give it a shot, although it is barely growing in my 40G high tech (another 300 page log, ).
- When you say New Jersey Plant Club, do you mean the NJAGC, the newer club founded in October last year by Jay L. and Mike F.? yes, I am a member of that one, actually I am a core member.
- I think I am a member of APC, and you are no stranger to me. I usually don't post there though, only rarely and not in a long time do I actively participate. I have a tight association of my progress in planted tanks with an awesome group of people on this site here (some of which are not on this often anymore ) so I did not see the need to involve even more people in telling me what I should do with my tank instead, . Actually, the main reason for a lack of participation at APC is time. As a member of the NJAGC (see link in my signature) and this site I spend more time than my family likes me to on this hobby.

Again, thank you so much for your input,

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Boy Ingo, you get Drs, Owners (Aquatic plant dealers) and Sith Lords to visit your log. How do you do it?

Well my log has no pics in it anymore

My Scapes
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
How do you do it?

I have no idea, maybe my humble way of communication () is the key.

Anyway, come on tetratech, shell out the twenty bucks and become a premium again, for the sake of all the Sith Lords that would like to see the pictures. In my opinion, your tank looks better than mine, and I think quite a few people share this opinion with me

Ingo


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In my opinion, your tank looks better than mine, and I think quite a few people share this opinion with me
In my opinion... I think both tanks are very nice in their own way. Tetra's is just more flashy.

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Anyway, come on tetratech, shell out the twenty bucks and become a premium again, for the sake of all the Sith Lords that would like to see the pictures


I'm not sure why they remove all your historic pics from your log when your premie runs out. Isn't that taking away from other members enjoyment and education. Unless can it be true, they really are sith lords

My Scapes
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hi ingo -

not logging on much at the mo, but yours is always the first thread i check! i just love this tank - the lush, verdant quality, the fish selecion, everything - i just hope you get the time every now and again to just sit down in front of it and enjoy it!! my tanks are all doing well, planning on a major redesign of the 6footer in a couple of weeks... if i can get round to it!!!

anyways, it's gorgeous. hats off to you.

justin
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Boy Ingo, you get Drs, Owners (Aquatic plant dealers) and Sith Lords to visit your log. How do you do it?


And the occassional itinerant Irishman

Being busy as a one legged man at a butt kicking contest.

Only get to write this cos I have a 5 hr layover in Dubai and they have wi-fi in the smoking lounge

Tank looks great. The bigger groups of a smaller amount of soecies works much better.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Well, this is the big praise page, Robert Hudson was here, Justin popped in, the regular gang says its nice, and even the Great Bensaf popps in from an airport and tells me it looks good!

Well, toooooooooo late!!!

It was time for a makeover, Ingo-Style. I guess I am not happy once all is done and a tank runs itself more or less. I need panick, messes, algae, all the good stuff

So - here is the tank yesterday in the morning (this is not a weekly update):

Attached Image:

In the morning



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All started with the preparation of buckets filled with tank water for the various sized plants, actually I eventually needed another one of these big round red ones.

Attached Image:

The Buckets



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The it was time to remove the plants and place them in the buckets, one for tall stems, one for the wisteria, one for the Anubias, one for the small plants like the crypts, pearl grass etc., and one for the ferns.

Here is the tank with only the ferns left:

Attached Image:

Almost empty



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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2007 14:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The it was all empty, it is probably not too hard to identify all the gunk in the water.

BTW, I found 5 of the 6 Otos that I added almost 2 years ago, I don't know what happened to the 6th.

Attached Image:

Yuk



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Here is a shot after a 50% water change. It is getting quite a bit clearer in the tank, but still not as good as I would like it to be.

Attached Image:

After First Water Change



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So I removed even more water, I would guess overall about 70% had been removed by both changes together. Of course I vacuumed the gravel at both, quite some gunk in there.

Attached Image:

Getting ready to replant



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Next, the hardscape was put in place, including the big wood with plants attached to it. I think I will call the new layout "Down by the old tree"

Attached Image:

Hardscape



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Then the tank was refilled and all middle and background plants were placed back into the tank. I was contemplating leaving it like that, but decided that I need some fast growers to stabilze.

Attached Image:

With mid and background plants



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And here is the full tank, sorry about the bad quality and about the bad color, only the 6,700 Ks were on at this time of the day and I was too tired to turn the other ones back on.

Overall, it all took 12 hours. Some tweaking will still be required, but that's what it's all about anyway

Ingo

Attached Image:

All Done



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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2007 14:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,

Nice "Thing"!



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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2007 15:01Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well, i like the new look - but I also like the old look too. You have too much energy for me LF. I long for a tank that I'm happy with and only have to "tweak" here & there with minor changes. I hope to reach that stage when I (finally) have the new tank up & running. But you were / are there already, with your beautiful tanks.

Still, all your changes make for an interesting log & a good read. Looking forward to seeing what your "tweaking" brings about - but it's very nice as it is.

Cheers
TW
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Nice "Thing"!



Revenge is sweet Wings, isn't it

But, as future pictures will show more clearly, this "Thing" has waaaaay more character.

Robyn, just wait until you are all done with one of your tanks, you will see/feel what I am talking about
I believe even tetratech is in sink with me here

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2007 15:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Yeah, I see that's how it is for you & tetratech.

I think the new layout gives added length to the tank. I think your tank now looks longer than in some previous layouts.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing it growing in.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-May-2007 00:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Looks great LF . My only complaint is that all the other driftwood pieces are aimed straight at the front of the tank and parallel to each other. It doesn't look quite natural that way. This might be included in your plans for tweaking though.



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Post InfoPosted 28-May-2007 08:03Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ingo , I'll give you this you have lots of courage as well as energy . Love the look especially the bare gravel in front of the driftwood , looks like a river with the rock border.Just in the process of setting up my 6fter and as always you give me inspiration .
Thanks
Garry
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks Robyn, Matty, and Garry

- I am with you Robyn, I also think the tank looks longer now. I attribute this to the smaller groups of plants, in particular the needle leaf fern and the Anubias group have been reduced and spread out some more. I am also looking forward to the growing in process.

- Matty, you are sooo right, the sticks are too straight and yes, I tried to tweak this a little, but so far not to my satisfaction.

- Garry, thanks for the input, always glad when my tank helps to inspire others with their tank, even if it would be only for identification on "what not to do" . You certainly identified the river theme very well, I may use a different substrate for that area once all has settled a little (sand comes to mind).

Weekly update will follow shortly,

Thanks again,

Ingo


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 87

Well, it has been well documented in the previous posts that this week was again another big week for the tank, a major Ingo-Style redo was performed. Nothing was wrong with the tank as it was before, I just thought about changing things around "a little"

To start off, here is a shot from yesterday in the morning, just after lights on:

Attached Image:

In the morning



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Well here's my 2.5 cents,

I think the main wood is too centered and it's hard to work the thinner longer pieces in to the setup. I like the plant groupings and it will look better once grown in. Sorry 'but there's no way that anubias works as a corner plant in your tank. Please move it or I'll have to photoshop it out and renew my membership to post the new pic.

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And here is a shot from around 8 PM the same day. For one thing, I have done some minor tweakings here and there, mostly by adding some accessory plants and by leaning the sticks a little to one or the other side.

What you may notice is the different color of the photo, somewhat more brown. This would be because of extreme tannins release into the water column. The wood had been soaked for two weeks, but I guess that was not long enough. I may throw in an extra water change or two per week in the beginning. The fish don't mind it though, the Espei are extra busy . I am more concerned about the lack of light penetration.

Attached Image:

At night



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I will ignore tetratech's input for the time being and get back to it once I am done with the update.

So - let's walk through the tank from left to right.

The left is still a little unorganized, but time (and more tweaking) will change that.

Attached Image:

Tank Left Side



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Here is the center. The spot where the Espei is in front of the black hole marks the true focal point of the tank, not the big chunk of wood. Once the wood is more planted one will notice the hole even more. I tried rather hard to get a good shot of that area, but the camera settings either make the hole black or all other areas really bright. I guess I should try the flash.

Attached Image:

Middle



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The right side of the tank is probably the currently most successful section of the tank, maybe because it hasn't changed all that much. I reduced the needle leaf java fern group by about half, it was really taking over there in the old layout.

Attached Image:

Right side



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Here is a closer look at the two main stem plant groups in that section, the Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' and the Alternanthera Reineckii. Once the cuba has grown some more the stick will not be such a focal point anymore. We will see ...

Attached Image:

Stems



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When you look at that group from an angle (downwards) you can already imagine the lesser importance of the stick. The tops of the cuba grow by now much tighter nodes and I assume it is becoming a fully aquatic growth form now.

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Cuba on Angle



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Here is the Alternanthera at its best. Somehow, it turned out to be an almost Dutch Street arrangement. This plant was once a maybe 3 inches tall single stem that I got during a shippment by mistake, a long long time ago.

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Alternanthera



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I also added some of the Najas Indica to the way left and right of the tank, here is the small group on the right. I am not certain if it works, but I wouldn't find out without trying.

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Najas Indica



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On the left side of the tank, in front of the smaller Anubias and behind a piece of driftwood, I worked in a small Tiger Lotus. I will see how (and if) it grows and what it will do to that area.

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Tiger Lotus



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The "Thing", as Wings calls it, has quite a bit of character. For one thing, it is hollow and has openings in front and back for fish to swim through. For another thing, it has branches (I will try to get different angled shots later) on which I tied some Nana Petites, as can be seen here:

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Nana Petites



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Only two more shots, of some fishies. First up is an Oto. As I mentioned, I counted 5 Otos during the redo, which means one was MIA. I am sure the Otos will like all the new wood to eat off.

Attached Image:

Oto



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Lastly, my male Apisto viejita II, partially because I like him so much, partially to point out the color. As you may see, he looks more yellowish that in previous shots. No, he hasn't changed, but he is swimming now in English Breakfast Tea, or at least that is how I would describe the color of the water as of last night (haven't seen the tank today yet).

And that concludes the update, one more entry will follow in reference to tetratech's comment.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Apisto viejita II in English Breakfast Tea



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Please move it or I'll have to photoshop it out and renew my membership to post the new pic.

If that's what it takes to get you to become a premium member again, I will leave it right there

I hear you tetratech, but I was trying to work it in somehow. This are 4 remaining parts of my huge Barteri group and I am not so sure if I like it at all in this tank. But, for the time being, that's where it will stay. This way, I have a few months to tweak and change and stuff before it gets boring again.

I think the main wood is too centered and it's hard to work the thinner longer pieces in to the setup.

Agreed, I am also not too happy with the thinner wood, but I also vote for "letting it settle" before deciding on its future position, angle, or presents.

I like the plant groupings and it will look better once grown in.

Thanks that you found at least one good thing about this setup, I will make sure to destroy that area as soon as possible,

Thanks for the input, keep it coming, and go get that premie-ship,

Ingo


Oh - quick question: Amano Shrimp and my Apisto Viejita - will that work?


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I think the shrimp would work out if they are purchased at a reasonable size. Say as large or larger than an adult cherry shrimp.

I think that if your focal point is going to be the black hole then you have the big DW in the right place. Otherwise it would look a little better more to the left.

Other than that I just think it needs to grow in a bit and be subject to further tweaking. It's always a little unfair to judge one of your tanks too much at the start.

Great shots BTW, nice and clear and well focused as always.

One last thing. A major dose of carbon in your filters will take care of the tannins. That may or may not be easier than repeat water changes.



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The shrimp are about 1 inch to 1.5 inches long, so I guess you think it would work then Matty, right?

Hey, I thought I show you quickly these 3 shots. I just did a water change to the tank (easier than adding 500lbs of carbon to my 2028 and 2026, ) and found this sequence very interesting.

Check out the tank half way through the refill. As you can see, the water goes in on the right side. Do you see the difference in the water color, or at least the brightness of the light?

Attached Image:

Filling



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Here it is even more obvious, with all the air bubbles reflecting the light and such. Looks almost as if it would be raining on the right side. I swear, the light is on on both sides of the tank.

Attached Image:

Raining



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Here is the tank after a few minutes and adding the macros, baking soda, and equlibrium with the filters turned on. As you can see, all is mixed up now and I have to say that I went from a tea where the bag was sunk in the cup for 5 minutes to one where it was in there for only 2 minutes. I guess I will do another one of these in two days.

Ingo

Attached Image:

All Mixed Up



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LF,

The Alternanthera and Najas shot are great. Everything looks healthy, very nice!

Getting back to your shrimp question, I think they would be O.K., unless the Cichlids get very hungry from not being feed for a while. The amanos do get quite big.

That's pretty cool with the water change pics how the camera pics up the lighter colored bubbles and makes the water look much brighter.



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Thanks tetratech (or Jeff, but I guess only Bensaf gets the honor to have your name at the bottom of an entry ), I will try to add some shrimp sometime this week, or maybe next weekend (I have about 30 in my QT).

Thanks for the compliment on the plants and the photo of the rainfall on the right side of the tank, I am surprised how well the visual experience translated into the picture. Unlike the big hole in the tree, which in pictures seems to be just a black spot. I wish I could bring that chunk of wood across the way it looks when you are in front of the tank, maybe some angled shots will do.

Ingo


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Thanks tetratech (or Jeff, but I guess only Bensaf gets the honor to have your name at the bottom of an entry


Oh, stop I know I've signed "Jeff" in your log or in one of our logs as we conversed.

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So the hole is going to be the focus... I was going to say to have you place the Anubius on the DW in that place. I guess thats out for now or maybe the roots hanging over the hole would look like hippie beads.

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Ingo, that's Alternathera you have on the middle right of the tank, yes?

What kind of requirements does it have in particular? I've got it in my tank, and it hasn't grown at all while just about everything else has taken off. But it's still just a few inches tall and shows no sign of new growth. :/

Listen! Do you smell that?
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LOL Wings, yeah - no hippie beads for me for now.

lysaer - yes, the red one is Alternanthera. It took a long time in this tank for the plant to get going, in particular because I did not knew what it was and had it shaded for the first few months. But it didn't die either. As a matter of fact, I added one stem a few months back to the 29G low tech and it was stagnant for quite a while, but then it started growing there as well.

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i like it heaps better than how you had it before, looks great. your apistos dorsal fin is massive!!!

my 55G is the best ive ever had it , but im gunna rip it apart so i can get a 200 but on the plus side im getting a 200G
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Thanks coop for stopping by and for the comments on the tank. It must be pretty exciting for you to set up a 200G tank, sounds awesome. Will it be planted? If so then you for sure have to show it off here


Question: who knows of a finer grained whitish (but not bright white) substrate, but not too fine (as in sand)? I am toying with the idea of placing it in the open space (aka the river).

Thoughts, input?

Ingo


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Question: who knows of a finer grained whitish (but not bright white) substrate, but not too fine (as in sand)? I am toying with the idea of placing it in the open space (aka the river).


Easy one, POOL FILTER SAND!

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I am with tetra on this one. I have it in a couple of my tanks.

50LB = $8 I think....



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As I have no pool, and as such no pool filter sand, what is the size difference between sand and the pool filter sand. Is it actually not sand at all but small gravel?

Ingo


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i have the same "river" thing down the middle of my tank. i use the pool filter sand. i was pretty bright white when i got it though. it isnt white any more coz of the tanins in my tank. any way you can pick it up a yor local pool suply shop or hardware shop. the grains are more like the size of coars rive sand, so i guess you would call it coarse sand or fine gravel.
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As I have no pool, and as such no pool filter sand, what is the size difference between sand and the pool filter sand. Is it actually not sand at all but small gravel?


I have a pool, but it doesn't have a sand filter it has a DE filter. My pool is cleaned with Diatoms

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Thanks for the sandy input

I looked around the web a little in search for what this pool sand is supposed to be and also found some Diatom stuff and some stuff with chemicals. I think I have to be careful picking the right one. I also saw mention of Silica "free" and such, I totally forgot for a moment that Sand = Silica = Diatoms.

In other news, I did another 50% water change last night to remove some tannins, seems to be much brighter in the tank than when I did the same thing two days earlier.

During that process, I found all 6 Otos, although I counted only 5 even with all hardscape and plants removed from the tank during the redo. I wonder where that one guy was hanging out during that process, as I inspected each and every plant/wood that was removed/added.

Also, when I did the redo I put the old wood in a sink and left it there. Last night I looked at it and saw mold all over the parts that had been covered with algae (hair) while the wood was submersed, yuk. I used an algae pad to scrape it off and gave all the pieces an Excel bath in which they still reside. Interestingly, after having had this wood in the tank for maybe a year (would have to go through the thread to find out exactly how long), one of the thinner branches was still floating. Talking about wood needing a long time to water log.

Ingo


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I looked around the web a little in search for what this pool sand is supposed to be and also found some Diatom stuff and some stuff with chemicals. I think I have to be careful picking the right one. I also saw mention of Silica "free" and such, I totally forgot for a moment that Sand = Silica = Diatoms.


The bag of sand I have just says - 'filtration sand' on the front and on the back it says - Ricci Bros. Sand Company, Port Norris, NJ 08349 - Not for industrial use

In other news, I did another 50% water change last night to remove some tannins, seems to be much brighter in the tank than when I did the same thing two days earlier
.
You could also use Purgien I think, but water change will do the same thing.

During that process, I found all 6 Otos, although I counted only 5 even with all hardscape and plants removed from the tank during the redo. I wonder where that one guy was hanging out during that process, as I inspected each and every plant/wood that was removed/added.


That's funny because I was able to count 6 otos in my 72g the other day. I noticed they were all hanging together and I hadn't done a water change in a while. I believe they hang together during stressful situations and I thing it was high co2 levels. I noticed that the flow looked very strong coming off the diffusor.


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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks tetratech for the info on the sand, I will check into that.

Also, it would cost me a fortune to fill my 2 filters with purigen, LOL. Honestly though, I am way too lazy to open up my filters and mess with the media, which would mean that I have to remove some of the existing media to place something else in, and that would mean cleaning, and what not.

Otos hanging out together seems to me to be part of their daily routine. We know that they are social animals and as such it doesn't surprise me that they have a meeting once in a while per day. Albeit you may be on to something with the CO2, it could also simply be that there is a certain pattern to their social habits, like "let's discuss the day after dinner" kind of thing.

Ingo


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 88

This week has seen two additional water changes, on Monday and on Wednesday. It wasn't so much about tannis from the new wood were bugging me, but I was a little concerned with enough light hitting the plants.

Here is the tank from a week ago, as a comparison:

Attached Image:

Last Week



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And here is the tank now this week.

You may notice the slightly brighter color of plants and water column, a result of less tannins.

I also dug out some of the substrate in the open "river" section. Growth overall is ok, but not really strong.

Attached Image:

Tank Last Night



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One of the plants that had really slowed down in the growth is the Cuba, but its new growth form is more submersed. Leaf node gaps are really small, the leaves are very narrow, all as it should be. But, compared to last weeks growth of quite a few inches, this week has seen maybe one inch.

Attached Image:

The Cubans



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
The last and next picture have been taken during the water change, btw.

I was wondering if this plant is a heavy root feeder and I remembered that I put some plant sticks in the gravel when I initially planted them. Now, having been relocated, they were no longer "over" these sticks, so I added two more yesterday.

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male usa
The next two shots are some closer looks at tank areas from different angles. First is the look at the section in front of the wood and to the right of it.

Here you can see a sword (smaller sword type, forgot name) getting used to submersed growth, some pearl grass, and a bunch of crypts, namely wendtii and lucens (or lutea, always get them confused):

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Detail I



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Next is a look at the 3 sticks to the right, with plants in front and back and in between and on it, LOL. Also, some of the rocks that I added there are showing.

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Detail II



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Next up is a series of 3 shots trying to make the best of the tree trunk in a sense on showing you its details.

Here is a shot from the section above the big hole, with a branch coming off it on the left (with Nana Petites on it), some pennywort growing over it, and a hole just below the latter. Holes are everywhere on this wood, connecting front and back.

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Wood I



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Here is the best shot I got so far from the big hole/gap that I got so far, I guess I need a fancy flash to show it better.

Also, note yet another hole on the right.

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Wood II



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Last of the wood shots is higher up, with an Oto on some wood with ripples.

I hope it gives you an idea that this is not just a chunk of wood but some wood with character

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Wood III



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The last two shots are commited to the newest additions to the tank, 10 Amano shrimp. They have been in the QT (with about 20 others) for the last two weeks and were added to this tank last night.

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10 Amanos



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As they are rather juvenile shrimp of maybe 1 inch, I was a little concerned about them being eaten by the Apisto male in general.

After adding them I kept an eye open for him, but he seemed to be more focussed on chasing them away. The female Apisto, on the other hand, appeared more in the mood of stalking them. It seems like she would like to take a bite, we will see.

That is it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

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2 Amanos



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What a surprise this morning,

After finding a dead shrimp in the 40G, I went to look if I can find any of the 10 in this tank. Well, I found overall 6, and that is pretty good, given the tank size and number of invisible spots in the tank.

But the good, I may say shocking, news are a branch that was left in the tank as it was overgrown with the needle fern on the right side of the tank. That branch was full of hair algae, about half an inch long threads were covering the entire lenght of about 5 to 6 inches. Well, this morning it was totally clean. I cannot show it in a picture as it is in the midst of the fern, so you have to take my word for it. These shrimp, by the time I checked 5 had moved on to the heater behind the wood, sure can eat their share of fluff, wow.

Ingo


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Very nice shots of the tank, as usual, Ingo.

So, would you say the amanos are better at algae eating then the cherry reds?

Cheers
TW
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So, would you say the amanos are better at algae eating then the cherry reds?

Oh, I could have told you that even without the feast that happpened last night. Both for sure are busy bees, but simply the size difference, an adult Amano is twice the size of a cherry shrimp, speaks for that.

Ingo


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I'd say both are miracle workers. Pound for pound I'd say they work the same. You can probably get amanos cheaper.....but then the cherries sure are prettier. I move the nana petite over to the 5.5 for a cleaning......spotless.



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And Cherries have an advantage --> they reproduce

On the other hand, they also fit easier in the mouth of a hungry Apisto

Ingo


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Very nice shot of the tank. I think the colors and contrast are great.

Glad you discovered shrimpsters. They'll definitely help keeping the main wood especially clean. I actually need some more for my 72g I think I only have 7 or 8.

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Hey tetratech,

For some reason, most of the regulars are no longer frequenting my low tech tanks, as such I assume you haven't seen today's update there yet.

I think there is a threshold on how many shrimpsters a tank can handle before they start to munch on the plants. Two weeks of 30 juveniles in the 20G was enough to clean the entire tank and then some --> namely the eating of my Najas indica, nice thin juicy leaves .

I am not certain if I wish to have more than 10 in the 125G, given that the Otos would like to have something to eat as well.

Ingo


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