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I'm interesting in using sand as the substrate in my 30 gal instead of gravel and was wondering how you go about keeping it clean. Can you vaccuum it like you would gravel, or would the vaccuum just suck the sand up?

You cant use a regular vac to clean the sand. There are many issues involved with sand, to address the cleaning issue. The trick usually suggested is to just "wave" the wand of the vac over the surface of the sand and let it suck up the waste that has collected on the sand. I didnt find this to work effectivly, especially as to get it to work properly you need to do it many times a day, or live with waste showing on the surface.

Another concept is to keep the waste suspended in the water column by using a powerhead in addition to the filter to increase water flow. I also found this idea fails as the sand instead simply got sucked into th3 intake of the filter and powerhead ruining the impellors.

I had mentioned other issues with keeping sand, the biggest one is the formation of anerobic pockets of bacteria that are deadly to fish. There are ways to prevent the buildup. Again in my tank all the processes failed.
As you can immagine I'm switching back from sand to gravel

^_^

well poo...I was really beginning to like the idea of sand in my tank, but now I'm not so sure

Unless you are extremly experienced in sand use it is worth never even to think about using it at all. Not only the problem of cleaning the very fine particals can cut an impella to pieces very quickly.

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Keith

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Thanks for the tip...I guess I'll just be using regular old gravel . Then again, how do you become experienced in something without ever trying it? You have to start somewhere right?

sophiecat22 -

I've really enjoyed Carib Sea's Tahitian Moon Sand. It seems to be larger-grained, and heavier than typical silica sand. I use a normal gravel vac, and clean it pretty much as I would any other tank with gravel. Most of the detrius will be on top, so lightly clean it without letting the tube fill with sand. If it starts to suck up a lot of sand, lift the vac higher off the substrate and the sand will fall back to the bottom of the tank. You will also want to stir the substrate gently with the vac because it will tend to compact. I only have about 3/4" deep substrate, and it's moderately planted, which also helps prevent compaction. I had MTS's, but my clown loaches have pretty much cleaned them out. But, they're really good for sand also.

And I agree with you that you can't become exeperience in something you never even attempt. I find trying new things out is half the fun of the hobby.

Here's a link to Carib Sea's product http://www.aquariumguys.com/moonsand.html

But, really any aquarium sand should work.

Thanks Georgia! Do you think that freshwater clams would help keep the sand aerated like the MTS do? I'm not going to use live plants in my tank, and 3/4" doesn't seem deep enough to bury the base of the plants in. What's the deepest I could make the sand without running into too much trouble?

Georgia, I forgot to ask if you use the black or white moon sand. I'm not sure if I prefer the dramatic look of the black or the natural look of the white.

Over the years I would have more mistakes and total disasters than I can remember. That is how I learnt. No computers then and too many rouge LFS. Good infomation and products were practically imposible to get then.

Remember with aquariums think twice then think again and only act once. If you dont do anything you will never make a mistake but you will never learn either.

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Sand can be used successfully in tanks (I have one) but there are a few rules you must abide by or it will become a mess.

1. Use a larger grain sand like pool filter sand.
2. You must keep it low (1 inch or less is best)
3. You must stock and feed lightly
4. You must do regular water changes and gravel wash
5. Try to keep something that will move the sand around like MTS, etc.

If you can't do the above it will probably be more hassle than it's worth.

BTW - When you gravel wash if you see the sand come up the tube squeeze the tubing and the sand will fall back down.




My Scapes

I've had sand in my tank succesfully for about 2 years now.

Bout 1-1 1/2" think. To clean it it is actually easier than gravel IMO as the detritus tends to stay on the surface of the sand as opposed to falling between the cracks in the gravel.

This way you can vac the entire tank at once without disturbing the bacterial balance in the tank.

When i do my water changes I tend to go round the entire tank with the syphon tube, lifting up as much visible detritus as possible. Then every week i actually put the tube in a different section of the sand, sucking it up through the tube, moving the tube around.

This tends to get any detritus that has managed to sink into the sand and keeps the sand aeriated. The only problem i've ever had with sand is a black algea like substance forming on the front of the glass where the sand is.

I am changing back to Gravel in my 35, I recently set up a 15 and a 12 - both restarts done with the old gravel from the 35 which now has sand - it looked beautful for about 4 months?

and then when I started the 12 and 15, i remembered how easy it is clean gravel and grow plants.

Wc on the 35 is a pain I always get sand in the bucket there is still always mess in the tank. bits of it look dirty. it drives me nuts....!

the fish are all good I just think now it looks awful. and the plants don't do well at all.

Sand really is not for me. it is a shame because the look is lovely, the maintence is evil. I guess if you only had a thin layer and no plants??

I still have plan for a betta tank with sand think I could manage that maintence!

GFG

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Ive had the same questions about sand, many of which are already answered by you guys . Ive converted to sand about two months ago and that seems to be doing fine so far.
How much time does it usually take for the sand to become "compact"? My clown loaches do a lot of digging around. Should it relieve some of the problems already?
Secondly, IMHO, if the tank is planted, the ever changing root system (decaying and growing) should always keep a bit of movement in the sand. Does it help?

Thanks

mughal,
How deep is your sand? If the clowns are doing a lot of digging that should be good but if the sands deeper than they're digging then obviously you'll have some compacting. It didnt take long at all for my sand to compact. About a week or so, and any trapped air will go anerobic within just a few days.
As for the roots....interesting idea, and one would think that it would work, but it depends on how strong of a root system it is. If it's weeker roots they wont be able to dig into compacted sand. Much like some terrestrial plants can dig into compact soils like rock or clay, and others need a lighter soil.
Just some thoughts...

^_^

the sand is 1 to 1.5 inches variable in depth. As i mentioned its been a couple of months that i have it but so far it looks really loose. The very idea of sand becoming compact and creating anerobic pockets kept me from adding more, although i have to face quite some trouble to keep the plants planted.
The plants having strong penetrating root systems like swords should keep it "live" at least in their surrounding areas, i guess.

I think you're safe with those depths. Mine was slightly deeper 2-2.5 inches, I'd suggest trying to keep it 1" or less, although with the clowns they're probably keeping it in line for you.

The reason I worry with sand is that I started losing my corys (for whom I put the sand in the tank in the first place) a few months after switching to sand. They were healthy and not too old, all I could figure out was in their nosing they managed to find a pocket of bacteria .

^_^

Very interesting really could be the case
This reminds us thats all we study about the biological processes isn't just theory...they DO happen inside our tank

sand was and is very easy for me but only if you follow these rules

1.powerful filter: my 10g has sand but the filter on it is rated for a 30 very few debris make it to the sand and algae wont grow on it eaither. the sand instead of being swirled into the filter like one might think is just compacted down

2.MTS: before i added mts the sand would develope pockets all the time but as soon as there were about 20 i couldnt find any even after leaving it untouched for weeks

3. keep the depth low:my sand is only about 3/4" deep,all the plants ive tried grew fine and this way it is harder for bacteria to form(so im told)

all in all sand doesnt seem to be nearly as hard as what previous posters have said though thats just my experience. the problems they experienced could have occured because they treated it like gravel. which it is not

Where could I find MTS? I don't think I've ever seen them in the LFS around me. Are there any other snails or critters that would bury into the sand like the MTS?

this evening i performed my first sand cleaning (two months after the setup ) using a normal gravel vaccum, nothing sophisticated. And I can tell you, it was easy. If you have good practice with gravel vaccums, you can get rid of most of the dirt (and sand does get dirty) quite easily...
IMO sand isn't that dreadful as its been described when it comes to maintenance