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cool, you're right I didn't mention that I did the test. Just a simple misunderstanding. I do appreciate the help & will completely change the substrate when I get the chance.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

Well, I got the crushed dolomite. I washed it really well & actually took my time in doing so, & thought I had a nice system of washing it out but it still made the tank very wery cloudy. Hopefully it'll clear up soon but I'm sure it'll take awhile.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

LOL, I'm not a chic. name is wise-ives. I assume u thought it had sumthing to do w/ wives.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

Tetra : Vinegar is an acid so it will react with an alkaline compound. Bleech is alkaline so it will react with an acid compound.

It's not 100% Lab procedure approved but it's a common way of testing. Instead of bleech, you could use a thick solution of bicarbonate sodium + water.

Anyway... I'm sure you understand and this explanation is not really necessary.

CC

Yeah I edited it because I realized I was pretty wrong.

Ah, so the bleach tests acidity and viniger tests how basic it is? Interesting. Thanks for the info.

Tetra : That is EXACTLY why I asked her to check if the rocks were acidic. Chances were slim but since she didn't know what the rocks were and considering that YOU are right in saying that most people will not get acidic rocks, I asked her to eliminate that possibility. On the other hand, you asked her to check the most probable thing which is that the rocks are alkaline.

CC
EDIT : That was in response to your post BEFORE you edited it. To answer you question, yes, the test is as valuable as the one with vinegar. You test for alkaline, I targeted acid. "Boils" down to the same reduction reaction at the end. (pun intended)


Last edited by Crusty_Crab at 14-Jan-2006 13:11

Last edited by Crusty_Crab at 14-Jan-2006 13:14

Bleach, I did not know that. Interesting actually. Are the results clearer than the viniger test? If so I might try using that method instead.

As for the acidic rocks...I guess I learn something new every day.

Last edited by Tetra Fan at 14-Jan-2006 13:07

Tetra: Rocks can be acidic. Your test with vinegar is as valuable as my test with bleech. Check basic chemistry site for confirmation of this information. You might want to check acid reduction reactions.

cheers,

CC

Just note that pouring pure bleach on a rock will not reveal if it will change the water chemistry. I am also sure that rocks in general do not have the capability to lower pH/hardness, but rather, to raises it. What *does* makes water acidic is dead or decomposing organic matter, such as driftwood.

To test the rock, pour viniger on the surface of the rock. If small bubbles appear (you really have to look close) then the rock contains calcium or some other mineral that may raise water hardness.

Oh, and the rock sort of looks like lava rock...but I'm not entirely sure.

[edit] spelling

Last edited by Tetra Fan at 14-Jan-2006 12:49

I had converted a FW 55G into a malawi tank. I am very satisfied w/ my fish & glad I have done this. However the substrate I have is gravel(spectra stone). I was thinking about switching to crushed coral so to maintain the neccessary PH but then thought about maybe just adding some of it & mixing it. Will this work? Does it even make sense? should I not mess w/ the substrate? or should I switch over completely to crushed coral, or some other substrate that will keep the PH where I need it?
The rocks that I have in there are pogoda stone & petrified wood which donot affect ph & then some other large rocks that are dark gray that are supposed to raise PH but I forgot what the rock is called. The later of the rocks seem to slightly raise the PH but not to where I need it. PH=7.8

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

Sorry if I sounded rude or anything, it was not my intention. Since I was helping you with your problem and decided to go with nmy advice, I assume (wrongfully it seems) that you expected me to identify the rocks from a picture, which I can not do. Furthermore, you did not mention that you did the test and that the results were ok.

Unfortunately, I can not help you more with your rocks.

Good luck on finding an answer to your question.

CC

The 1st pic is the close up. The middle pic is petrified wood & pagoda stone, & the last pic is of course just the aforementioned unkown rock.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

I had already did what you said & the rock is apparently alright, thank you. However I did not ask you nor did I think that you were a geologist & the qusetion was not directed towards you but rather a general question to anyone who could ID the rock.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

I am not a geologist. Please proceed with the test I told you to do to check if your rocks are safe or not.

CC

ok, guess I'll just switch to the crushed coral. Here are some pics of the rock structures I have set up as of now. Took a close up of the "dark gray stone" to show its make up & possible ID.

http://photos.yahoo.com/ivan_cruz@sbcglobal.net


Pics were taken from a cam phone so forgive me for the blurriness.

Last edited by wiseives at 14-Jan-2006 10:56

Last edited by wiseives at 14-Jan-2006 11:29

Last edited by wiseives at 14-Jan-2006 11:42

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

I have a Malawi tank and here is what I think.

I would not mix regular gravel with crushed coral. I would switch to crushed coral, period. Without going deep into water chemistry, it's better that way and will help maintain your pH level above 8.0.

Depending on the water conditions, the maintenance ( cleaning of filters and substrate), the pH will be affected. As Frank said, corals are made mostly of carbonates and calcium. The first helps to raise your KH (carbonate hardness or alkalinity if you will) and the second helps with the GH ( general hardness or hardness caracter of your water if you will). Both GH and KH interact with the pH.

One way to check your rocks and make sure they are not acidic is to pour a few drops of pure bleach on them. If you have a bubbly reaction, the rocks should be taken out of your tank and are probably responsible ( in part ) for the drop in pH.

Raising the KH alone is NOT a good way to buffer a tank. So adding only carbonates or bicarbonates will solve the problem but only for a few days. Always use a buffer that contains not only carbonates and/or bicarbonates but also mettalic ions such as calcium, magnesium, sodiums, etc. Seachem makes a good reliable buffer that you can use for your Malawi tank. It's Marine Buffer pH 8.3.

Hoping that helps,

CC

thanx Frank, I believe that the dark gray rock is some sort of base rock. It is full of small pores & seems to have some sort of mineral deposits, mostly white but also some browns. As for the substrate, if I was to able to get the dolomite or limestone, should I remove all of the gravel or mix it with the new substrate?

Sidenote: I'm no dummy but, apparently I need to study up b/c I had to read your post a number of times & still not sure what some of it means.

Last edited by wiseives at 14-Jan-2006 09:39

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

Hi,
The Grey stone that "is supposed to affect the pH" is
probably limestone. In a sense, the addition of carbonates
to the water to raise the pH is one of balancing.
That is, if you use a carbonate as the substrate (crushed
coral, crushed dolomite, crushed limestone, or crushed
oyster shells) and maybe even have rocks that are limestone
or dolomite, then they will affect the water and change the
pH fairly rapidly and hold it there. In that case you
could do rather large water changes and not worry that the
pH of the new water was lower than that of the tank because
it would soon rise to that of the tank.
Small regular water changes would have only a
minimal effect and it would not stress the fish.
If you had very little of the carbonate, then a water
change would affect the pH more, and it would take longer
for the water to work back up in pH to where it should be
and by then it would be time for another change.

IMO, I would use either dolomite or limestone as your
rocks and as your substrate. They naturally contain Mg
and Ca and Fe as well as other impurities that would
help the fish. Generally speaking, crushed coral contains
primarily Calcium and Carbonate.

Frank


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