FishProfiles.com Message Forums

My plant list is in the other thread,

Ok, I'll go have a search later

they are all slow growing low maint

You can have fast growers with discus. It was a personal choice of mine to go with slow growers. Due to multiple largish tanks, I wanted to simplify things. No longer wanted to spend huge amounts of time "gardening", but knew I still wanted plants. Is this going to be a low tech tank? If hi-tech, you might need fast growers, for the settling in period of a new tank. I had wisteria floating around & growing in terra cotta pots on the sand area for the first few months. Spoiled the look, but helped keep algae in check during that period.

More info on the pump pls ?

I'll look at my pump details at home tonight (if I remember).

And yup, firm now on a canister and inline heater,

I have an in-line heater on one tank, but don't have room on some of the others. I'm looking for a way to get around that, as it's so much nicer without the heater in the tank. The hydor in-line must be installed vertically, so make sure you have room to do that.

Now have to decide on substrate. I'm leaning towards flourite or eco-complete capped by small river rock pea gravel.

Eco-complete doesn't need to be capped by anything. You can just use it as it is. I've never used flourite, so can't say about that.

I hate making decisions

Cheers
TW

More info on the pump pls ?

To use this method, you need a food safe water storage container. I got mine 2nd hand on ebay, making sure it had only been used to store food (mine was used to transport orange juice). If you don't want 2nd hand, your local hardware store probably has them fairly cheap or this site has the sort of thing you'd need
http://www.bayteccontainers.com/waterbarrels.html?gclid=CPOMntq2lJ0CFUUwpAodpz7v1Q
Add a heater, pump & an air stone. Fill it up, add the water conditioner, turn the heater & air stone on 24hrs before the water change & then you have nice aged water, that matches your tank's temperature all ready to go.

Inside the storage container, I have this pump like this
http://www.jeffsaquaticlife.com/eheim-universal-pump-1262.html

Using a food safe hose, you can now fill your tank. The storage container doesn't have to be kept in the same room as your tank - just as long as your hose reaches it. My storage tank is in the garage.

Some people also use a pump to empty the actual tank, but I prefer to use a gravel vac (does a better job of cleaning IMO. A pump takes out the water too quickly, without enough time to vac properly). Using my gravel vac, I empty the water into a 30-40 gallon plastic tub. In the tub I have a 2nd pump with a wide hose attached (like you'd have on your washing machine) that leads out to the garden. Emptying into the tub first, means any little fish that I might suck up have a 2nd chance for me to net them & put them back into the tank. Doesn't happen often, but it has happened.

It might sound complicated, but once you have things all set up & you have a routine worked out, it's really quick to fill & empty several tanks. Because I have a few largish tanks & I like to do my major wc on all tanks on the same night, my storage container holds around 270 gallons, but you only really need it to be big enough to hold the water for tanks you want to change in one go.

I chose this over the python for a couple of reasons:-

a) could never get the water temperature to match the tank as well as I would like
b) directions on my Prime bottle say if adding the fresh water directly to the tank, you have to base the dose on the total aquarium volume (not just the volume being changed). That's a lot of extra product being used, if you have several large tanks.
c) To start the python syphon action & to keep it going strong, you need to run the tap which wastes a lot of water. I've been told that for many people this is solved by running the tap only until the syphon is started & then you can stop it. This didn't work for me, but I'm not sure why. It was able to drain the tank, but the syphon action was too weak to actually suck up debris along with the water. Australia was in a drought situation for most of the past years and I already use enough water in my water change, without just running water down the drain to the syphon up.

But, I know that lots of people in the USA use the python and they are more than happy with it. Different courses for different horses, I guess

Either method would work well for you & be much easier than using buckets. You'll never use a bucket again once you move to one of these methods.

Cheers
TW

Delenn,

Try soaking your fake plants in 4ml/g hydrogen peroxide solution for 10 min. For stubborn bba soak for a longer time. Rinse, replant. This will also work with tank decor

Robyn,

I eliminated high maint plants as well, & the tank is low tech. Not sure why but reddish cultivar swords have done better for me in low light then the green. I've considered potting, keeps the tank easy to clean, but the look deters me. I wonder how hiding the pots with driftood would look ? If I do not go that route, capping the substrate would be just for visual and getting the river rock look. My flourite is multi-type mixed together, I'm finding myself sick of that look so want to cover it or do away with it. Liking the pump idea but I'm very short on space for a barrel. Will check back in later.

The Amazon Nut...

Well, if you've already found the red swords go well for you in low light, that's a bonus Sticking with things that work for you is always a good plan

I have seen some fairly nice tanks that manage to hide pots behind driftwood. I have seen some that have only gardens created on driftwood - nothing planted. All sitting on a painted BB (painted on the outside, to try & mimic sand). I'm not a fan of BB, but some of them were done well & didn't look to bad.

Have fun with all your planning

Cheers
TW

I think I'm overwhelming myself with details and feeling a little stressed lol.

I got the reminder tonight have to get about $600. worth of car car stuff done too so I'll have to start this a little later and get the stuff a bit at a time
I hate making decisions too & don't want to make hasty ones. I still feel on track, but also pressure I put on myself to get it done.

It sounds like domestic discus are almost as finicky as wild. No room here for a separate w/c setup. If I can't give them proper care I should stick with angels, for the discus sake.

Time for sleep, have a good night all

The Amazon Nut...

Well, I didn't mean to scare you. Sorry about that.

If you go with the python, there's no need for a sep w/c setup. Just connect at the sink. I had the room, and it suited me better, so this is what I've done. More folks on this site would use the python & I'm sure they would recommend them.

Remember too, that you've caught me at the end of a disaster, so I am naturally much more cautious due to that. Prior to bringing in those sick discus into my system, I had nearly 4 years of virtually care free discus keeping & like I said on an earlier thread, I still have the first discus I bought as a newbie, back in June 2006. I really don't think they're that difficult. Look after your water & the discus will look after themselves. Have a good QT period & deworm them during that time. Maybe even give them a PP bath and you're a long way toward success.

I hate decisions too. My 7ft tank was in the planning for nearly twelve months. I love the planning stage, because at that point anything is possible.

I'll leave you alone now, as I can see I have overwhelmed you & I never meant to do that.

Cheers
TW

Ya don't scare me like that

No worries you are doing great

I put pressure on myself, want happy healthy fish, & do the tank right the first time. Have to step back, take a breath, get my car prepared for winter & some minor bodywork, other stuff.

I figure I'll start the tank in December which will give me 2 months get other things done, learn, plan, research, ask questions (if that's ok) and get the plants in the 40g into better shape. I have metro and pp, have to source out the other meds you mentioned. I think a couple people around here ship home-made quality foods so can check into that & may pick up / order a couple things for the tank as well to get more prepared

I prolly have to go with a python. I do know it's better to pre-treat, degass the water used to do that when I had apistos, but used a 15g setup. For clutter, sanity, and temptation reasons, the 40 will have to go after the 75 is established. If I had a condo or a house I'd be alot happer (could foresee a small tank rack lol)

I get side-tracked and obsessed by something such as this easily, have to put myself in check







The Amazon Nut...

Ya don't scare me like that

learn, plan, research

That's the best way to do it

ask questions (if that's ok)

Ask away You can tell I'm passionate about discus, so anytime.

I think a couple people around here ship home-made quality foods

Sounds good. Let me know if you want a receipe to make your own. Works out cheaper. I make mine in bulk, so I don't have to make it all that often.

Have fun with all your planning

Cheers
TW

I understand your affinity for discus, they're SA cichlids after all

It's been suggested the model size of eheim I decided on would not provide enough filtration for 4 discus and 2 angels, plus provide enough water movement around the tank for the plants. I don't want to add a hob or powerheads along with the canister if I can help it. Trying to keep things simple as possible. I don't need a strong current blowing the fish around, just no dead spots.

Can you 'guys' help me nail down a model that will do what I need ?





The Amazon Nut...

I run an Eheim Pro II 2028 on both my 72G and 79G

My 138G has two Eheim Pro II 2028, one at each end of the tank. I still think I may have a dead spot in the middle, or at least not that much movement.

HTH

Cheers
TW

On 2nd thought, I have 3 hobs that will not be used, maybe it wouldn't hurt to add one, or a powerhead, along with the canister ?

The idea was not to have excess things hanging into the tank, but if I have to....


The Amazon Nut...

Found a good deal in my local buy and sell.

Eheim Classic 2217, excellent condition, only 13 months old. All media, hoses, tubing and shut off are intact. Come with a extra pad BNIB. For $125.

I pick it up after work

The media will of course be tossed & I'll get new

That's another item out of the way !

The Amazon Nut...

"but I would worm with levamisole and praziquantel"

Hi Robyn, how many grams of each would I need for the initial quarantine treatment plus if any got sick later ?

A contact of mine is selling some levamisole $14. for a 5g packet. I can ask about the prazi as well if you think what he's asking is reasonable.

Thanks
Herb

The Amazon Nut...

"but I would worm with levamisole and praziquantel"

Hi Robyn, how many grams of each would I need for the initial quarantine treatment plus if any got sick later ?

A contact of mine is selling some levamisole $14. for a 5g packet. I can ask about the prazi as well if you think what he's asking is reasonable.

My levamisole is liquid form, needing 7ml per litre of tank water. But I don't think that info will help you much, as this is a powder, right? Helps to know the amount of active ingredient in a given weight, but maybe the seller will know the dosing info for the product he's selling? Or, this link might help
http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/levamisole-hydrochloride-1

Prazi is short for praziquantel. It is an ingredient found in worming meds in LFS. Probably lots of brands, but here's one. Dose as per directions on bottle.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=15555#

My preventative worming treatment is:-

week 1 : Levamisole
week 2 : prazi
week 3 : prazi
week 4 : levamisole

You need both types of med, as they target different worms. You also need multiple treatments, because the med has no effect on eggs. So the repeat treatment is to try & catch the ones that were still eggs during the first treatment, but have now hatched. The aim is that you get the newly hatched ones, before they get a chance to lay eggs.

HTH

Cheers
TW

Avitrol Plus is one of the sources of levamisole the link mentions. I have used the liquid form with success, in a very small hospital tank for apistos. Not sure if I would use it to dose a large tank, as it contains sugar. I have used the tablet form in 40 Litre tank. The dose for avitrol plus is 1 tablet per 10 litres (so you have to convert this to gallons). The advantage is it contains prazi as well, but whether the level of prazi is sufficient - I don't know.

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn thanks again for your help

Not sure on the concentration of the powder but I can inquire. Drs F&S I'm thinking may be a good source to compare price to the local seller.

I'm thinking no matter if angels or discus or both, having 'L & P' on hand would be wise since most of my fish are sa cichlids ?

I grabbed that Eheim 2217 The next major stump is deciding what route to go with the substrate. Amazonia I or II would be very nice, the only way to get it is to visit the U.S.








The Amazon Nut...

Last night started overdue maintenance in the 40g. Did a 10g wc & scraped the glass. Tonight going to lfs for excel and prime. Thursday night will assess the plants, move some stuff around, check filters, put a larger filter on (temporary) then do an algae treatment.

Overall the plants look good, still a touch of bba but nowhere near as bad as before, mostly on the driftwood. Want the bba totally gone before it goes into the 75.



The Amazon Nut...

Didn't notice your flag before - always thought you were in the USA, not Canada.

Not sure if Drs F&S will have the L. It's more likely to be sold at a produce store. Don't be alarmed, but mine is marketed for pigs & poultry - but my fishy forum friends in Australia have worked out the dosage & that the one I buy is the best for fish (as it has no sugar). Try Drs F&S, but if not try produce stores.

Cheers
TW

I was reading up on your Eheim pump & w/c setup. What a nice way to make things easier, your garden must be happy too

Good timing, my flimsy kitchen faucet has a leak, along with the right drain. Time to get the landlord to replace with a sturdier one that also has no 'watersaver' insert which just makes it take longer to fill a bucket & more of a pain to wash dishes. If I have any input it will be one suited for a python hookup. I do quite like the pump idea and against my downsizing needs I'm considering making a small tank rack for my 40g and 2 15's. I had a hiccup on the bulb order, now fixed, I should have it by next friday. I snapped a few pics of the 40 last night to give me a different perspective. Comparing to the old pics, the lost bulb intensity over time is obvious. The timing couldn't be better to order new

The Amazon Nut...

Delenn,

Try soaking your fake plants in 4ml/g hydrogen peroxide solution for 10 min. For stubborn bba soak for a longer time. Rinse, replant. This will also work with tank decor

DaMossMan, Thank you! I'm really sorry. I didn't even see this post until just now. I don't have any fabric fake plants now (just plastic), but if I can use this on my dragon which has some brown algae, I'll definitely do it!

Thank you again, and I'm really sorry I didn't respond sooner, but I didn't see the post!

No worries Delenn, meanwhile your algae growed to humongonus proportions ...on your fake plants

That's a new word...humongonus...

The Amazon Nut...

Ah, you saw the pictures in the Photo Booth section? Yeah, I am trying to understand where it's coming from. At least I know that SOMETHING can live in my tank, lol. Even if it's not fish right now. I WANT FISH!!!!!!!! ahem. Sorry. Just a wee bit frustrated.

I found out last night over thanksgiving supper #2 that a guest and her hubby have not had their fishtanks active for sometime. I gain a 25g tank, misc fishy stuff, and python syphon system probably by next weekend, in return I'll tune up their 2 computers.

I love freebies.. I guess setting up my mom with my 20 gal low profile tank generated some freebie karma






The Amazon Nut...

Yup our hobby can be frustrating sometimes, patience and perseverence will win out in the end. I still... tell myself that lol.

The Amazon Nut...

good score on the freebie 25G. Gott love free stuff.

Is the tank you're setting up for the (possible) discus & angels an already tank, or one you'll be setting up from scratch. You probably say that earlier on, but I've forgotten by now. Only asking 'cause I'm wondering what colour you have planned for the back glass, or if it is already painted?

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn

I picked up their laptop this morning (took 2 days off) to fix up, and now have the python. The drain pipe y-shaped part is not there for siphoning or the inside thread faucet adapter, but I can hook it to the laundry tub in the meantime since it has the connector to goto the outside tap threads, to at least be able to fill the tank. If I have to buy those 2 parts separately I'm ok with that, i could probably just drain it into the bathtub using the hose as a straight syphon. Also a gravel cleaner came attached.

He couldn't find the 25g but I'm sure his wife will on wed when I bring their laptop back. All I have to do is re-install an ms office cab file under her user profile to fix the problem. I can grab that off my disc

"Is the tank you're setting up for the (possible) discus & angels an already tank, or one you'll be setting up from scratch. I'm wondering what colour you have planned for the back glass, or if it is already painted?"

The new setup is from scratch. I've never painted a tank, thinking of going with my usual black construction paper backing, dull side in.

I'll check in later

The Amazon Nut...

That's awesome DaMossman! There's nothing like getting a free tank! Did you say what you're going to put in it? It's only 25 gallons, so I'm assuming that you can't put Discus in it? Maybe I'm wrong.

One thing I don't do is count tanks before they're in

I'm not sure what's happening tank wise yet, here's what I have. Mind you, I'm supposed to downsize tanks as my apt is tiny, fuses can blow down here, and if I move I'll have alot to do lol.

Established tanks.
10g moss, algae, otos, shrimp, colony-bred wild endlers.
40g breeder - 'SouthAmeriKazian' - mix of crypts, ruben and ozelot red swords, e augustifolius, thread-leaf vals, downoi, 5 Laetacara dorsigeras, 2 beckfords pencilfish, 1 bn pleco.

Next tank to be set up, supposed to be replacing the 40g - 75g tank and cherrywood stand. Eheim classic, driftwood. Still need substrate, want ada aquasoil amazonia. Still debating what fish, either angels as the dominant fish, or turquoise discus. I somehow think I won't mix the two, although I'd love to.

What's left.
2x15 gal
incoming 25 gal.

I'm tempted to build a tank rack to hold spare stuff but at the same time trying to fight the urge, I don't think the fuses can take it and I may just go mental lol.


The Amazon Nut...

I took 2 days off and they've been productive. Got alot of car stuff done.

I feel bad about the vacations and weekends away this year and no-one to feed the fish when I'm gone. Today I went to the fishstore and bought them the eheim automatic feeding unit 3581.

Edit: Water change done, why didn't I get a python before ?
Not one bucket lugged, have to say I love that

The Amazon Nut...

The new setup is from scratch. I've never painted a tank, thinking of going with my usual black construction paper backing, dull side in

That might be best. I love black backgrounds best. But discus are the only fish I know of who don't look well against a black background. Pigeonblood discus will likely pepper up. Non pigeogn bloods look darker & duller. Only albinos look their best against black. A lot of discus keepers choose a very light blue. I've painted my quarantine tanks that colour & can say first hand my discus look better against the colour of the QT tank, than they do when I move them into the big tanks inside.

BTW, unless you don't mind peppering, it might be best to avoid pigeon blood altogether, as they also tend to pepper more in planted tanks). I think you want turks though - so they don't pepper at all.

If you are like me, you won't believe this when you first hear it. Go to a discus forum & search for threads about tank background colours. I didn't believe, and I'm stuck with a 7ft, 4ft & 3ft tank, all with black painted backs, that are now too hard to think about changing. At least with black construction paper you have a chance to change it, if you don't like it later.

It's only 25 gallons, so I'm assuming that you can't put Discus in it? Maybe I'm wrong.

You're right. Only a confirmed discus breeding pair. But you could use it to QT new discus.

I hope you do end up with the 25G, as that would be sweet. Python for free was good too

I used ADA amazonia for the planted sections in my 7ft tank (silica sand in the unplanted).

I've always been told healthy adult fish can go a week without feeding, when you're on holiday. Longer & you need to make arrangements. The eheim auto feeders are good though. I have a couple too, but never used them. I've lent them to a friend a couple of times & he says he never had any problem with them.

What made you decide not to mix the angel or discus? Is it the disease myth? Most things I read do say it is just a myth, but people keep spreading it. Having said that, I should say I've never kept Angels, so can't speak from personal experience.

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn

I love black backgrounds also, makes the fish feel safe and lends itself nicely for photos.

I'm not a peppering fan, I like clean, well-defined markings, consistent color with no fading in the middle. Yup, turks if I get em.

So if you wanted your tanks black you'd have to razor blade all the blue paint off ? My god, leave em black unless you have vacation time coming!

Yup the 25 would be a qt, put into storage, replace the 10 on my bedroom dresser, or as Robyn said become a breeding pair tank later for some type of fish.

"I hope you do end up with the 25G, as that would be sweet. Python for free was good too" - Just trying the python for the first time today, it's a welcome change. To think I've been lugging thousands of buckets over the years... I needed that python when I had the 90g oscar tank.

I've done alot of research on the ADA amazonia (type 1),
definately want 4x 9L bags of it (lol)

I normally feed them once per day, which wasn't an issue before but this year I've been home mon, tues, thurs. I want to build up their health and growth properly. I lost a gb ram breeding pair and one L dorsigera this year, with no prior illness, or signs of illness, following week long absenses. Then whenever I'm gone I feel guilty. Enter the eheim.

"What made you decide not to mix the angel or discus?"
I'm not firm on it yet since I know angels can be quite the bullies, and discus are very sensitive. I'm not concerned with the disease myth tho. If I buy local bred, qt using the L & P meds you mentioned, I'll be good.

I encourage you to raise a small group of angels Robyn, you'd enjoy it for sure

The Amazon Nut...

I love black backgrounds also, makes the fish feel safe and lends itself nicely for photos.

I'm not a peppering fan, I like clean, well-defined markings, consistent color with no fading in the middle. Yup, turks if I get em.

Discus try to blend in with their surroundings, so a darker tank means a darker discus (unless they are albino & then they can't darken).
Turks will darken. No problem, so long as you know a discus you choose in a breeder's light coloured tank may look different in your tank.

So if you wanted your tanks black you'd have to razor blade all the blue paint off ? My god, leave em black unless you have vacation time coming!

I regret using a black background on a discus tank - even though for other fish it would be my first choice .... I get tired even thinking about changing it LOL

To think I've been lugging thousands of buckets over the years...

I gave up lugging buckets when I got the 43G. I could never go back to buckets.

Take care & have fun

Cheers
TW

I got the 25g from the friends that gave me a python. It was nicer then expected, thick glass, nice top, would make a sweet show tank. I think it will be replacing my 10g. I fixed their MS office and will be upgrading their vid card for free

Also getting more organized, got rid of the yucky antique stereo cabinet (prior landlord owned it) that my 40g was sitting on, replaced with a 4ft, 2 teir tank stand. My smaller empty spares now on the bottom tier so I'm not tripping over them.

Unexpected event, the person I bought the stand from gave me 2 adult albino bn's (one longfin), a goldspot bn, and approx 25 fry. They are all acclimated and doing on for a week.

I located a local breeder with silver angel fry (with red eyes) for $2. each so I'm considering 6 of them.

No progress on the 75g yet, trying to locate amazonia, no suppliers in canada, trying to find out what fish stores in Buffalow NY carry it for a poss field trip.. No luck yet.

Still to decide on what stock for the 75, have to be careful. if I grow all the bn fry and keep a couple pairs and they breed, my L dorsigs decide to breed etc, won't take much to run out of tank space.

Nitrate levels were good in both tanks, checking ammonia in the 10g tank tonight to make sure adding all those bn's didn't cause a mini-cycle. So far they are doing great.

Also salvages a few of my various moss samples, will be making some kind of glass container to keep them all, or go for bottles/glasses. Might add airline/light to bump things up.

The Amazon Nut...

How's the tanks comin' along DaMossMan? I wanta see 'em!

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi Kelly

I'm so sorry for the late response.

The 75 gal tank I now have the substrate. I went with a Japanese ada amazonia clone of sorts called Nisso. 48 kg of it, hope it's enough. Also some azoo slow-release fert pellets. Light and heater still to go. I'm told with the amount and type of light I'll be needing co2 so will also be needed. With Christmas and just buying the substrate, I'm tapped out so have to wait a bit.

40g - is doing well. 10g had some bn die-off.

Got a new few plants, L aromatica, stargrass, baby tears.

Trying to live up to my name (been awhile). Salvaged my moss samples from the various dishes they were in. Most now in a 4 section betta holder inside the 40g. (java, taiwan, flame, f fontanus). Only the zipper moss is not in a tank. I found a couple strands of weeping moss growing again in the 40g, and a couple of xmas moss in the 10g. I'll have to get those into glass jars (no longer store in plastic) On a tip, bought some Loctite Superglue UltraGel which is used in marine tanks by some people for fragging. Someone in my area used that to glue moss to driftwood, then just popped it into a tank and all was well. I'm sick of tying mosses by hand so will try that next time. I will use gloves and tweezers though, the glue bonds skin instantly. Also going to get plastic mesh from the craft store.

The 75 is there not set up, looking grungy and holding my python, driftwood collection etc.. I should clean this up and take a pic but won't happen for a couple of days.

Also the 10g will be replaced by a 25g







The Amazon Nut...