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Hi,

After 6 years I am noticing lots of gunk build up in areas that are impossible to python clean in my 100G tank. In the areas I can get my hands into I can actually pick it up and remove it by hand but the task is somewhat overwhelming.

I've had a couple of dramas recently with a bacterial disease resulting in the loss of all but my mollies and BN's and one Krib. So I'm thinking that I should break it down and give everything a good clean.

I am also thinking this is a great opportunity to get rid of the explosive snail population in there at the moment.

It was recommended to me to remove everything and dose the tank with salt to kill off the snails. Is it safe to do this to my plants too? I'm a bit wary of bleaching them. It would cost me a fortune to replace the plant stock. Bad enough having to replace all the fish I've lost.

Thanks in advance...

PS Bizarrely enough the Molly's have been breeding like...er well... mollies right through the disease outbreaks. Catching all the fry is going to prove an "interesting" task.

I suppose that's a decent excuse to tear down/redo a tank. Things like that tend to happen after tanks have been running for a number of years, and it is a good idea to redo them.

The best way to get rid of the snails would be to use copper, not salt. Salt will cause the plants to shrivel up and will probably do more harm than good. A short-term copper dose shouldn't harm the plants at all. I'm not sure where you could get copper to dose into the tank... maybe find a copper-based med? Look into it...

Are you looking to replace your substrate as well? I'd definitely recommend it if you're having problems with bacterial infections. If you are going to replace it, you could just remove the fish from the tank, dose the tank with copper, let it sit for a while (up to a few days, maybe? I'm not sure), remove the plants (while shaking/scraping the snails off of the plants and into the tank), drain the tank, and then remove the substrate. Be prepared for a big smelly mess when you remove the substrate! I wouldn't be surprised if you find hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg/sulfur smell) in there somewhere...

Once you get the tank emptied, scrub it down with a LITTLE bleach (I'd use 1/4 cup in a 5 gal bucket of hot water and use that to scrub the tank out), then rinse, rinse, rinse, RINSE the bleach out! Once you think it's rinsed enough, rinse it some more! After it's clean, you can set it all back up

If you've got any other questions, I'm sure that someone here (either myself or someone else) should be able to help you out

Have fun with the cleaning project! I went SW with a DSB so I don't have to do cleaning like that

Set aside one full day and get some help. Work out the aquscape (make sketches)

I would first take out all the plants and the fish place them into a large plastic rubish bin/s (Bunnings) and keep the filter going also keep it areated.
Wash all the substrate. Save as much water as possible at least 75% Take out each plant and give it a good wash under the tap. Clean the tank as recommended.

Start rebuilding the tank. Note I have not even worried about the snails YET.
Also a good dose of Sera Nitrivic to boost the bacteria in the new set up.
When adding the water add a good dose of Melafix for at least one week.
Once is up and running about a week later then do a good filter cleaning, (this will have kept the bacteria alive)

Now worry about the snails that are left go and get a few small/medium sized Clown Loaches. They will clean up all the snails and their eggs in a few weeks. Make a cave for them in the aquascape. By doing this method no chance of damaging any of the plants or the fish.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

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Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

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If you have the facilities, consider keeping half of your stock in a holding tank for a fortnight until the main tank stabilises a little. Stripping a tank, even just for a good clean, can really cut back your bacteria population. They will bounce back quickly with the increased access to oxygenated water, but they'll be a bit delicate for a while. Underfeed if possible for a while too.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Hi All,

Thanks for all the assistance.

I have a four footer that I was planning to put them into in the meantime. Kind of setting it up as a mini tank (minus gravel, rocks, driftwood and decos). Although I was thinking I should put some of the gravel into a stock on or something to keep "seed" bacteria for the gravel (and that way any snails or eggs won't be able to escape).

With the depletion of stock after the bacterial issue I don't think the waste build up is going to be a biggy. But I will be careful. Unfortunately I haven't got the equipment to heat both tanks at the same time (I lost both my heaters recently and could only afford to buy one).

If I just dunk the plants in salty water long enough to kill the snails would that upset the plants if I rinse them off thoroughly?

Clown loaches, yes well before the bacterial thing I had three that had grown to about 2.5 inches each and I had come to the conclusion that while keeping the snails under control as soon as they were killed the population exploded. At this point I'm not likely to be buying more plant stock unless the unthinkable happens. I am usually trying to give them away... crypts, moss, anubias... they reproduce too much!

Please anymore comments are very welcome!

Before you do anything, establish what you want to accomplish.

If you just want a good clean, then just do it however you feel comfortable, but if you want to nuke the snails you'll need a whole new attack plan, because they are tiny weeny survivalists. You can reduce the population with a thorough clean, but if you want to eradicate them, you'll have to start your cycling from scratch and possibly lose some plants. It is a bit of a trade off, and a lot of effort either way.



For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Hi Callatya,

I want to do both. Really good clean (like take it all out and rinse it) and nuke the snails as well. Although I'm planning to rescue the burrowing ones that aren't causing me grief.

Cleaning wise I'm expecting some very icky deposits particularly around the bottom and at the back of the background and around the back of the huge rock in the center of the tank.

I'm prepared to put the effort in because I believe it will get the tank back to the low maintenance affair it has been for the last 5-6 years without all these awful dramas.

Thanks for the help and advice!

It is not only the snails its their eggs that you can not always get rid of. I would just wash all the plants under the tap to give them a good cleaning. This will not harm the plants at all. The only way to remove the snails 100% is with the Clown Loaches. Other wise it is a complete start over substrate and plants and then you only need a few snail eggs and its off again.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Hi everyone!

Thanks for all the help. I thought I would give you an update. I had a bit of a delay after the tank I borrowed from a friend as a temporary home for fish and plants broke part way through filling with water (it had been sitting empty for years and was a bit banged around - nevertheless I replaced it with a new one).

So after catching approximately 100 Molly babies of various sizes (mostly tiny! ) and depositing them into the breeding net I decided I was ready.

Catching most of the fish didn't prove too much of a challenge. One of the BN's I simply put hands over the ends of his log to hold him and the water in and transferred him. He may not still have realised that he's moved . The other BN was more of a challenge my homemade cray pot trap which is usually very effective with BN's (I've caught a lot of babies over the years) was a fizzer in the end I got mean and turned the heat off. In the end he practically swam into the net.

With no filter setup and no gravel in the temp tank I'm changing part of the water every day.

In this process the glue has fallen apart that hold the rubber (?) background onto the back glass. I have to go hunting the tube of glue. Hoping glass and background will be dry enough tonight to glue it back up. I'm getting worried about my plants as they've been in buckets with less than their preferred amount of light for a couple of days. The anubias in particular get snarky about not enough light. If the background is glued tonight I will part fill the tank so I can drop the plants in.

Last night I spent 3 hours cleaning the gravel. Amazing the things you lose in gravel found several clips and suckers that I've lost over the years. And a big sharp piece of glass that must have come from the cover glass I broke a few years ago.

Fish in the temporary tank seem fine. It certainly hasn't stopped the Molly's breeding <Sigh>. At least I'll have plenty of choice in breeding stock. I'm trying to get stock that only breeds gold dust morph as per my original 10. Have some promising babies about 1cm long at the moment.

On a side note I managed to retrieve some clips, a thermometer and some of the rubber feet from the bottom of the filter that had gotten underneath the false bottom of the tank stand. Nice bonus!

Anyway, that's it for the moment. Hopefully will have it back together in the next day or two! Will be nice to have the house back to normal too!

Will post again when I'm done. Thanks for the help everyone.

sounds like a little treasure hunt!

The plants should cope OK, they spend plenty enough time in bags etc getting shipped around the place, just baby them a bit when you get them back in

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Well... the background has been glued. Will see tonight when I take off the jigs and g clamps whether it's enough to hold it up.

Put about 90 litres into the tank and it's just as well I was good and had it sitting for a couple of hours and did the whole conditioning thing as I discovered that the BN I thought was in his log when I moved it has actually been hiding in the main tank all this time . Fortunately he seems to have survived the experience.

Tossed the plants into the tank to float until there's more water in. I've got another 90 litres sitting waiting to go in when I get home tonight.

Thanks Callatya. I do worry about my swords and anubias as they can get a bit precious at times!

i love it when i hear stories of fish surviving really full-on events like that. i've had a two inch pleco suck onto a piece of anubius-covered driftwood i was moving, be carried in a plastic bag with no water for an hour, and end up in a friend's new tank! i was giving her the driftwood as a pressie, and she got the pleco too.

justin

Hi Jase,

The owner of my (not so local) LFS warned me once when I bought BN's to make sure the bag was empty before tossing it as he had once brought BN's home for his home tank, tipped the fish in, screwed up the plastic bag and tossed it into his fireplace. One of his kids freaked when they saw the bag moving around an hour later! Amazingly enough the BN survived.

I did a similar thing to one a couple of years back when I put the rubber background into the tank. I removed the 20kg rock from the tank to make life easier and when I picked it up with my thumb in the hole in the rock a couple of hours later the rock wiggled - luckily I hadn't tipped the water out of the hole! All my current BN's were born in that hole.

Must be a sucker thing.

Final Update:

Everything went back in last Sunday. No mortalities - wonder of wonders. Although all the A. crispus have dropped half their leaves, they are looking like they'll recover though. There seems to be a lot less anubias going in than I thought was in the tank originally .

The swords have recovered and are starting to look perky again. Somehow I seem to have a lot more space for plants. The java moss that was growing on the background (and which hasn't survived being out of water too well) was taking up a lot more space than I realised.

So I'm thinking I might get three more swords and I have a few tiny baby A. crispus that I will use as background once they've grown up a bit.

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. I was a little scared it would all turn into a disaster but I'm really happy with the outcome.

I don't understand why you think the anubias is sensitive. That stuff is usually near impossible to kill and most people list it amongst the hardiest of plants. I've left it sit in buckets for over a week without issue. I also left it on a piece of driftwood in the back of my truck to haul it 45mins down the interstate with only some moist paper towels(which were well dried by the time I got there). The driftwood was over 3' long and about a foot wide so it didn't fit anywhere else. The anubias had slightly crinkled leaves for a few days and then it started growing like normal. Most plants withstand more than you'd think and come out of complete tank cleanings without more than a few wilted leaves. However if you try to chemically kill the snails or use salt you're quite likely to loose some plants. The snails probably won't be much problem now that you've gotten the tank clean anyway. Snails multiply based on how much food is available so lots of junk laying around in the gravel means lots of snails while a clean tank means minimal snails.

Hi Sham,

I've found in the past and I think it happened this time too that they get snitchy and die if they aren't getting their hours of daylight.

I've realised that most of them were under the shadow of the masses of java fern, so I probably had a picture in my head of there being more than I actually took out.

Maybe it's only nana's. It's not like they don't reproduce like crazy so no biggy. Just thought it odd.