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A friend of mine gave me a few plants from his aquarium, to plant them in mine. However his aquarium has a clown that has ich.Is it safe to put these plants in my aquarium or will they contaminate my fishes with "white spot"? Is there a way I can disinfect the plants from ich (chlorine bath maybe) )?

Hi Cariogram

Recently, Keithgh helped me out with some white spot (ich) that was brought into my tank by a new fish. He gave me an article that explained the disease & how it infects and how to treat. I hope that it helps you, as it helped me. The bottom line is that you should quarantine this plant in a QT tank, with appropriate white spot meds added. If you don't have a QT, I think that you could just use a container with tank water & meds added.

Here is the article that Keithgh gave me

White-spot Parasite, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis

This disease is easy to recognise, as the skin of the infected fish becomes covered with white spots, each the size of a pinhead. Each spot represents the site of one, or sometimes two, parasites. All parts of the body gills, may be attacked.

The causative agent is named Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. It is a spherical and large by protozoan standards, measuring up to 1mm in diameter. Short, hair like processes known as cilia are spread densely over the surface. A horseshoe shape nucleus is also present which is clearly visible under the microscope.

By the means of the cilia the parasite rotates vigorously and burrows into the surface layer (epidermis) of its host. It feeds on skin cells and surface debris. The burrowing action causes a local irritation and the epidermis grows across the parasite to enclose it, thus forming a White Spot

Reproduction occurs away from the host. After maturing in the skin, which takes a few days to three weeks, depending on the temperature, the parasite bores out, swims away and comes to rest on a submerged object such as a stone, or plant. Here it forms a jelly like cyst within which a series of rapid cell divisions take place. In a few hours, several hundred daughter cells or swarmers, are produced, which break out of the cyst to find a new host. Alighting on the skin, they burrow in to recommence the life cycle. If they fail to find a host within three to four days, they perish.

Symptoms
If the protozoan is introduced into a tank containing healthy fish, little harm may occur, other than a fleeting infection with a few parasites. If however, the fishes are already weakened for some other reason, e.g. lack of oxygen, the parasite will quickly cover the whole body surface, causing irritation and opening up wounds for secondary infections. The host mobility may become affected. In sever cases, death may result.

Prevention
If white spot appears in an otherwise healthy tank, the parasite must have been introduced either as an adult on a newly acquired fish, or as the cyst form on, for example new stones, a plant or even added water. The only certain method of prevention, is to quarantine all new stock, including stones, plants etc; preferably in water at a temperature of 77F. Allow one week’s quarantine.

Treatments
There are too many treatments today to recommend any specific one. Many can be bought easily at aquarium outlets.


Several very interesting points to think about.

Very easy to recognise.
Its reproduction cycle.
No host they will die.
If introduced into a healthy tank little harm may occur.
Pay attention to all tank details.
Weakened fish, and lack of oxygen can/may and will cause sever deaths. All this is usually caused by poor tank maintenance and/or incorrect and faulty equipment.
Prevention is the best cure
A Parasite must be introduced into the tank.

This information was collected from Fresh Water Tropical Fish

Hope this helps you.


Cheers
TW

I would think any chemical dip would kill ich but I'm not certain and I never dip plants so I can't help you much there.

The young form of the parasite will be on the plants but as mentioned above when it reaches adult form if it has no host it will die off. Almost all ich meds will kill plants. With a half dose of rid ich plus the crypts and apongeton in my tank were barely affected and able to recover but some plants will respond much worse. You could just toss it in a tank or container with no fish for 2-3weeks. If the plants can stand it high temps of 80-85F would speed up and possibly interfere with the growth of the parasite and you would probably need a light setup if you quarantine for 2weeks or more. Most plants will survive a week or even 2 without light but it depends what plants. Also if the plants will withstand it 90F or above will kill most of the ich within a few days.

At tropical temperatures, Ich has to find a fish within 3 to 5 days. It is a necessary step in its life cycle. So, just take the plant, and put it in a fishless quarantine tank for a week, and it will be fine.

There is no need to dump it in a bath or ich treatment -- the ich in the stage of its life cycle where it would be on the plants wouldn't be killed by any ich treatments, anyway. Keep the plant away from fish and it will be fine.

Everyone is right, without a host fish it will die. But as a side issue, the ich treatment hasn't (as yet) harmed my plant in QT tank. But maybe it just depends on the treatment that you use & type of plant & maybe the effects on the plant have not yet had time to show through. I'm almost at the end of a 2 week cycle of treatment. It's also not great for the plants that during treatment I was told it's best not to turn lights on at all. So, I'll have to see what happens here.

Cheers
TW

After reading the replies and knowing a little about "ich"

Yes it does require a host to multiply but it can also lay dorment without a host that is one of the reasons for treating a tank as well after the last "Spot" has disapeared.

I personally would not touch even a full tank of plants if they were in a tank which has "Ich"

The Parasite could/will be in the water which is on the plants.

Even sterilizing all the plants might not even work.

Not worth the risk.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but keithgh, just wanted to thank you again for the advice on ich. The rest of my fish are now fine & 2 week treatment will finish on Sat. I'm sure my other mollie would be dead without your advice. thanks

Cheers
TW

Thank You all very much for your replies./:'

Yes it does require a host to multiply but it can also lay dorment without a host

No, No, No, No, No, No. a thousand times no. There is no dormant stage to ich. At tropical temperatures it has to go through its entire life-cycle in 3-5 days. Has to.

This is an ich myth that has been around a long time. But, the ich-like parasite that attacks marine fish, crypto, does have a dormant stage. But freshwater ich has no dormant stage.

Here is a great page with all sort of infomations, including debunking some ich myths: http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

I'd have to agree that all newer information I've read recently says ich cannot lay dormant. It does not just show up in a tank but has been recently introduced somehow. I also don't know why people get so scared of it. I've had ich show up about 10times now in mostly new fish. I've only treated once and I've only lost 1 fish. The other times I just did waterchanges and no more ich. In my experience healthy fish in healthy tanks rarely get ich and rarely die from it when they do. Do other people have healthy fish dying from ich or is it just paranoia that they could? Half the time I don't even avoid buying a fish I really want if it's covered in ich and with a little quarantine I've never had a problem so personally I see no reason to completely avoid a plant from a tank with it.

Do other people have healthy fish dying from ich or is it just paranoia that they could?

As a newbie, I didn't recognise what was wrong with my brand new fish. I'd only had him a few days & by the time I realised what the problem was it was too late. I came back from LFS with the meds & he was already dead. You are probably right, that if he'd been healthy, he may not have died. But, as it stands, he did die, which was upsetting. Luckily, he was in a QT with a few other new purchases, so it wasn't as big a problem as it could have been, if I'd added him straight to the community tank. People had given me good advice to QT my new fish as I stocked up, and it payed off to follow the advice. At least one other fish in QT had ich & looked close to death, but with the meds, all are completely cured. I'm now following advice to treat the tank for 2 weeks, just to make sure. Seems a small enough thing to do, if my fishies will now be ok. Much better to treat in QT, rather than the community. I really wouldn't call it paranoia - my fish did die. I'm definitly going to make sure I QT everything (including plants) from hereon. Fish I will QT for 2 weeks, plants a little shorter & maybe just in a bucket. I figure it can't hurt to be cautious. I might even buy a fish with ich, if I really wanted that particular fish, provided I could QT it all by itself, so as not to stress any other fishies. I wouldn't knowingly put fish or plant with ich in my community tank

Hey, but that's just me. Everyone is different and those with more skill & experience may be able to do things I can't.

Cheers
TW

Let me remind you again that I'm not a veterinarian. I'm just passing on to you the best of what I've read. Don't rely entirely on hobbyists such as the Skeptical Aquarist: probe the information that biologists offer to veterinarians and aquaculturists.

Bignose

My infomation came from Sera and a manufacturer of a White spot cure medication.

It is possible it could be one of those yes no things.

What I do know and many fish keepers in my area know during the colder months Ich is extremly prevelent. It has to come through the water supply.

My local LFS is now setting up huge water storage tanks to stop this problem. I also store my water for 7 days if not I can gurantee a "Ich" out break.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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keith, The information you have does not agree with the published scientific data out there today.

See the work by Dr. Peter Burgess, for example. This is a man who studied Ich as the subject of his Ph.D. In his Nov 2001 article in Pratical Fishkeeping: ...mentioned among Ich "old wives' tales" that "It's present in all aquariums." "What utter rubbish" noted Dr. Burgess.

You may be thinking about the tomont stage, where the cyst will be spending its stored energy to divide over and over again. It is not susceptible to medication at this point, but note that this is not dormancy at all. At tropical temperatures, this stage is really only a matter of hours. At colder temperatures, it will be days before it bursts, but it cannot stop and remain dormant on this path. In literature, this cyst is commonly described as "short-lived." It is also commonly described as attaching itself to something, like the substrate, but I suppose it isn't impossible for it to break of in a high velocity flow.

If the water treatment plant processes water at low temperatures, then I guess it may just be possible that an ich has survived. I also thought that water spends a rather long time in most treatment plants, and again, without fish present ich cannot continue its life cycle. Unless there is a new strain out there that has not been studied yet, what I've written in bold is the fact that has been uncovered by every researcher of ich to date.

Matthews, R.A. "Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Fouquet and ichthyophthiriosis in freshwater teleosts" in Advances in Parasitology vol 59, 2005, p 159-241 is (from the paper's own abstract) "a comprehensive overview of the biology of the parasite, covering the free-living and parasitic stages in the life cycle, host-parasite interactions, and the immune response of host and immune evasion strategies by the parasite." No mention of a dormant stage whatsoever.

This is what the modern scientific literature says today, can you find proof otherwise?

OK I will accept that I think I was using a more common term that would be easly understood.

A Ph.D 2001 is very old as it could have taken several years to complete his studies. Things move very fast these days when it comes to new studies and new findings. My eye opperation was very rare 2001 but today it done as a day surgery. Before that I was told there was nothing that could be done the only hope of saving my sight was medications which were slowly not working.

If the water treatment plant processes water at low temperatures, then I guess it may just be possible that an ich has survived. I also thought that water spends a rather long time in most treatment plants, and again, without fish present ich cannot continue its life cycle.

In our treatment plant and open dams who knows what is in there. All I know and many others know we always have big problems during the colder months. That is the reason I and many others store there water.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Ich is pretty big, I'm pretty sure most water filters would catch something of its general size.



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