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I think we all agree that live plants are beneficial to any fish tank. My question what do no live planters do/use to counteract the problem of no live plants ( usually fish eat plants)?

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Keith

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What do you mean by the problem of having no live plants? I haven't run into any problems with my plantless tanks except for the fact that I'm ashamed at how unattractive my tanks are.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

I have one tank with no plants, the others are planted. The unplanted tank has a lot of plastic plants for cover. I have to say that I am more careful not to overstock unplanted tanks, while I feel I have a little more flexibility with the planted tanks to overstock a bit.

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Shinigami

I was referring to nitrite and nitrate concerns.
Also does this mean it can be controlled by having less fish or a good filtration system.


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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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good question keith well done,im 1 off the people who have tryed plants many times,but as i own mostly larger more aggresive sa cichlidsmy plants dont get eaten,just plane out destroyed,i find them in my filters,floating around my tank,so i just gave up,so someone please answer keiths question...

In unplanted tanks (including those with artificial plants, regardless of how many), I always recommend that people let algae grow on the sides and back of the tank, as well as large rocks inside the tank. Most people I've spoken to around here seem terrified of algae and act like it is going to kill their fish, and are surprised to learn that it is actually beneficial in unplanted tanks. Algae will help remove nitrogenous wastes from the tank just as live plants will, and it doesn't take any time or effort to grow. Basically, it's the tank's way of trying to "clean" itself.

Rising nitrates are always a concern in unplanted tanks, so water changes and gravel vacs should be performed on a regular basis.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

Hi,
I would agree with Natalie and add to that.
One should also do regular maintenance especially vacuuming the gravel, right down to the glass, a
section at a time. The substrate is a huge reservoir
for nitrate.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

The way I see it with proper aquarium maintenance you won't have problems, with or without plants. If you have a proper water change schedule, I'm not sure I can imagine nitrogenous wastes becoming unmanageable. I haven't ever tested this, though. On the other hand, I haven't had the extreme of fish dying purely because of rising nitrates due to not doing a water change in a while (AKA old tank syndrome, if I'm not mistaken). I defer to the fact that many aquarists, although definitely a minority, maintain bare-bottom, plantless tanks, depending entirely on filtration for biological functions. Their set-ups run quite smoothly due to responsible maintenance and a competent filtration system. If you notice, many public aquariums also "cheat"; live plants are not common in their set-ups either. Filtration and maintenance is what it's about.

Personally I don't feel like having plants adds a huge amount of capacity to your tank. Either you have too many fish or you don't; I'm not of the belief that a few plants or even a fully planted tank is going to make a great difference. On the other hand, this is said from someone who doesn't stock very heavily, and specifically stocks bottom feeders, who don't really leave leftovers lying around. In any case, the main materials plants use are carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and phosphorus. These are waste products of fish but are not usually deadly in the forms or levels they are found in a properly managed fish tank (except, of course, the uncycled new tank). Perhaps "deadly" isn't a good measure of a limit, but in any case your fish should be safe with maintenance.

Of course, it is handy to have hornwort or some similar sponge plant suck up all your nitrates, but I'm not sure that in most cases the biological services of plants should be overstated. Plants, like fish, are purely organisms, and in general organisms do what they please rather than what you want them to. In my case, plants decide to die rather than take root and flourish, considering my lack of any form of a green thumb. An algae eater is going to eat what algae and as much (or as little) algae as it pleases, and the same will be true in the case of services of plants. With both fish and plants, there are just a few exceptions that will reliably play out the intended biological functions that you wish to have in your tank. Personally, if you want plants, think about what you can provide for them, not what the plants can provide for you, because in the end what they provide is primarily aesthetics.

This is especially true in many of the plants that have special requirements. I have glimpsed many extremely attractive planted tanks. These plants are not just machines to soak up nitrates, they have to be basically coddled to grow, with fertilizers, special substrates, CO2 injections, and some bright lights. In the case of fertilizers and CO2 injections, it seems to me aquarists are counteracting the very services that you'd imagine most people might "use" their plants for. In the case of bright lights, I'd never be able to see my light-shy fishes!

Some people might want to imagine that their tanks are more "natural" or "balanced", but in the end the whole deal is extremely artificial. When I buy plants in the future, I will buy plants based on looks, requirements I can provide for them, and compatibility with the fish I already have, the same thought processes I use when I buy fish, rather than with a thought process that I need plants to have a thriving "natural ecosystem".

All that's an opinion, of course, it's not supported by any hard evidence.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

I can't have live plants in cray tanks (ends up as tossed salad) so I understock. On one I'm running a UGF as they are still too small to move too many pebbles and on another I have really understocked. Floating plants work well, as does a loose, non-compacting substrate and a beefy filter. I also let the algae grow on the rear glass if I can.

Most of my tanks are unplanted or only have a small amount of floating plants, either because of lack of lighting or hungry inmates. Other than the dramas with the 4', I haven't had any problems.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

normally i dont have any wq problems,i also under stock,and have great filtration,with a good wc schedi rekon out of a bunch of plants that i would buy,the most of them would just plane out get destroyed,and the last few they sort of slow down on them over a few days(must get boring after a whole buch)i dont mind the live plants,its my fish that have the problem with em

With a properly adhered to maintenance schedule there is no problem. I've had plants and have been without in the same tanks and fould very little to no difference, except that plastic plants don't get eaten, rot, or clog up the filter and are easier to vacuum around. I do maintain a moderate stock but also do regular w/c. As for algae, except for one bloom when the tank was still new there has been none in several years.

Most plants (especially slow growers as anubias, moss, what have you) do not uptake nearly enough nitrate to be purchase exclusively on a mechanistic nitrogenous-waste-sponge basis. For optimal nitrate uptake, as any plant fanatic will tell you, you have to dose a plethora of other chemical entities, such as phosphorus, pot., and the micros, some of which have equally deleterious effects as nitrate in large quantities. In fact, no planted tank should ever have nitrates below, oh, say 20 ppm, whereas my nonplanted breeding tanks stay below that during triggering. So frankly speaking, plants are pretty much always for asthetics. If you want some functionally useful plants, look for floaters

COL Thank you for that info. The question was put there to create some interest in live or plastic plants. Yes I do have a lot of Anubias but I also have lots of floating water sprite and that grows faster than any weeds I know.

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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i alway learn something new on this site,i pretty much thought that all plants absorb nitrates the same,but i was wrong

Well all plants do absorb nitrogen in some form, it's just that some absorb it at a much faster rate than others. If you want plants that will be veritable sponges with respect to nitrates, then Ceratophyllum demersum is one that springs to mind, as is Amazon Frogbit (both of which are floating plants incidentally). In both my aquaria, my plants require regular pruning in order to prevent them from staging campaigns for world domination ... which in the case of the SAE aquarium is a bit strange because while the fish are fairly chunky, there's only 5 fish in that tank (3 SAEs and 2 Florida Flag Fish) and so it should be understocked, yet my Java Moss in particular in that aquarium is utterly rampant.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

yeah thats want i ment,like i thought they all absorbed them at the same rate,but as you said some are faster than othersits a shame too,i do like the live plants and there are some truely nice.but my cichlids just destroy em