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I am starting ym 10g over. I had such a bunch of snails in there that I finally just moved the three fish that were left in the tank and drained it, cleane dit, rinsed my gravel in hot hot water. I cleaned the filter/pump out and will be refilling shortly. I am going with a fishless cycle. The last time I did that, it only took about a week, with some gravel and filter media from one of my established tanks.

The fun part will be deciding what goes in the new set up. With a pH of 8.2-8.4 and a hardness of 16-20, I need to be careful lol. I had cory cats, harlequin rasboras, and a betta in there before the snails took over. This time, I am not sure what I want to do yet. I am thinking that I prefer the peaceful type setups, so I'll probably stay with something like that.

I would try to find a way to lower your pH. A pH that high will be difficult to keep very many freshwater fish. Perhaps adding some peat to your filter will help keep your pH at a level where you will have more options.

You make a good point but, I've used driftwood, pH lowering chems and it really doesn't respond, so I work with what I've got. My son asked if he could have the 10g in his room when we set it up again, so I put it in there tonight, filled it up, grabbed the filter media from ym 55g and set it in the tank, fired up the filter and off we go. I added a smidge of pure ammonia to begin the cycle.

He plans on having the glo-fish (danios) and a Betta... Needless to say, he's really excited! (He's 8, in 2nd grade)

And of course, now that I've moved the 10g to his room from my office, I will have to get a new tank for my home office :-)

MTS is tough to live with!

With a pH of 8.2-8.4 and a hardness of 16-20,

Scott. I assume the tank is fully cycled?
What are the water parameters of your water supply?
I always us a PH product called PH adjuster and this holds my water at a neutral state 99% of the time. I have to do that because my water supply readings vary too much.


Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
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Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith


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Well, this particular tank is not yet cycled. But the pH in all my tanks has always been 8.2-8.4 and the hardness has always been 16-20 whether they are cycled or not. That's our water supply here. I even discussed it with the people at the water treatment plant.

I may look for this "pH adjuster" stuff... I'd love to get that pH down some. I have had unexplained fish losses off and on ever since I began the hobby in 2007. I'd say that the high pH and hardness can explain some of thoese losses

Scott

Check with another USA member they should be able to assist you in a quality PH adjuster product.

I believe Hardness can be adjusted contact Frank I think he would be the best person to help you.


Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith


Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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Hi,
Gosh, with those values you might want to consider the
live bearers (Platies, swordtails, guppies,etc) or any of
the African Rift Fish, or some brackish water fish
(just add some marine salt) That water is just made for them!

You might ask at your LFS what they do and if their water
is the same pH and hardness as yours is.
If it is, then they should have several suggestions
for you that would work.

If not, then you have the crux of your problem
and acclimation is the key.
You would have to modify your water so that it is
within a few degrees of their water before you can
put the fish in the tank.

Passing water through peat moss will drop the pH but you
can't say with any certainty that 1 pound of peat moss
will change the pH by x number of degrees. And, it would
be a continuous project.

Instead, you might give some thought to diluting the
tap water with RO water.
Get a couple of gallons of RO water, or distilled water, and a 10 Gallon tank.
Fill the tank, say to the 7 gallon point, and add
three gallons of RO or DI water and allow to mix then 24
hours later, test. The idea is to get a ratio of tap water
to RO or DI water that yields the desired pH. Then take
that ratio to your larger tanks and use it when doing
water changes. I'd just use RO or DI water to make up
for evaporation and the ratio only for water changes.

Places like Home Depot, Lowe's, etc have RO systems that
are easily attached to the home water supply if you are
"handy," if not they will not charge and arm and a leg
to do the installation for you (and then its guaranteed!)

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

As the tank cycles, I am checking parameters, we're up to over 1ppm Ammonia, no Nitrites yet, .5 nitrates and 8.0 pH.

I added pure ammonia when I set the tank up and filled it Tuesday nite. So, we're off to a good start with our cycle. I added a bag of filter media from my stable 55g to jump start the cycle as well.

I had thought that distilled water wasn't good due to the lack of minerals or something... I tested some gallon water at the grocery and the pH came back close to neutral. So I had given some thought to keeping a bunch of that on hand for water changes, to dilute the tap water and get the pH down some.

My son is hoping for the glo fish, which if I am not mistaken are merely geneticly modified danios, so they ought to hold up well, unless they are weakened due to their genetic makeup. Myself, I am not a fan of those things, but the tank is in his room, lol.

I may just try the dilution experiment and see if I can't control the pH that way...

Thanks Frank!

Hi,
Distilled water is not a good idea and a sure no no when
used by itself. It is pure water and has no minerals in
it. If you use only distilled water the fish suffer due
to that lack and will die off. They need their calcium,
magnesium, and other minerals to live. Depending upon the
porosity of the membrane in the RO filter, the same thing
can happen. The membrane will filter out the larger atoms
and molecules, sometimes to the detriment of the fish.

Note, that I did not say to use only the RO or DI water,
I said to mix it with tap. That leaves the majority of
the water tap with all of its vitamins and minerals, just
in a more diluted solution. Using it to compensate for
the evaporation won't hurt either. It's only when RO or
DI water is used exclusively that problems occur.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Scott, My tap water comes out at about 7.6 here (which is high for the store I buy my fish from as they won't guarantee the fish for more than 24 hours if the PH level shows up at above 7.4).

I bought API PH 7.0 to get the water down. I took a one gallon pitcher, filled it with tank water, added the PH 7.0 according to the directions then added the water in the pitcher back into the tank, and it IMMEDIATELY brought the PH level down to 7.0.

You only need to re-add it when you do water changes (which for me is weekly) or when the PH rises by .02. You can add one additional dose of the PH 7.0 (or 6.5 or 8.2 or whatever one you choose) beyond the first dose. If you need to add it a third time, you need to do a water change (that's what the directions say).

I was really impressed with the product. It is (to me) a little on the expensive side, but it's worth it.

Thanks for clarifying Frank, I did see that you noted clearly to mix the RO and DI with tap water... I just thought that DI was a total no no, that's why I wondered. Thanks for replying back on that!

Delenn... thanks that's good info too!

Hi Scott,
Just one note... you can use either RO, or DI, water - you
don't want, or need, to mix the two.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

You're very welcome, Scott. Just make sure you mix the PH 7.0 really well in the 1 gallon pitcher before you add it back to the tank.

actually, with a 10g tank and that level of hardness, why not just put in a DIY co2 as you would for a planted tank? that will certainly drop the ph to a reasonable level, and the natural hardness of the water will prevent the ph from crashing.

then all you would have to do would be use some "PH Down" in your water changes to approximate the ph level in the tank during water changes.

---

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