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OK, so I looked up several species of fish, and based upon total size of each fish upon completed growth, needed heat, water PH balance, etc., I came up with the following and was wondering if you all think this will work based upon the tank I have (I can add more fake plants, I have no problem with this):

37 gallon aquarium:

1 rainbow shark
2 chilodus headstaner (if I can find a place that carries them)
1 African Clawed Frog (dwarf)
2-3 Black Bar Silver Dollar (assuming that they're not too big. I couldn't find anything that gave an overall size for them)
and 1 Pearl Gourami

I was also wondering if I could put in a few kuhlii loaches but I'm concerned that the other fish I've listed will be too aggressive for them to deal with?

So, that gives me a total of 8 fish (not including kuhlii loaches). Are those fish OK together, or do I totally need to rethink the fish?

And yes, I'm aware that I cannot add them all at once. I know that I'd need to add one or two and then wait awhile.

Thank you for your help in advance!

African Clawed frogs and dwarf frogs are different. Clawed frogs grow to be the size of softballs and what with their claws end up eating all your fish. Dwarf frogs stay small, and don't have the claws . Considering you will be having larger fish and rather active ones I doubt an ADF would be able to compete with the other fish for food.

Silver dollars, no, no no! These are large fish, and what's more they're very active fish and tend to spook easily. Not a combination for a tall tank.

What are the actual Length width and height measurements of this tank? Also, what type of filter do you have on the tank.


^_^

Since you are wanting something differen't from the "usual". Why don't you look at a small african cichlid set up.

Huh. Thank you Gourami, I'll look into that.


Babel, thank you. I had a feeling by the fact that no mention was given anywhere I could find on the size, that the silver dollars would be too big, so I didn't get too attached to that idea, lol.

Let's see... measurements.... brb. I'm going to go measure (hope I do it right)...

OK, back:

30" L

25" H

12.5" D

As for the filter? It's the filter that came with the tank. It's got a long tube, a motor, and a cage thing at the end to suck small debris in, and then it's got a "Right Size H" carbon/charcoal filter, and a big bio wheel. Then there's the two dragons I got for decoration that have airstones in them, and I put a pump on one that goes up to 20 gallons, and a pump on the other that goes up to 10 gallons so that between them it pumps 30 gallons worth of air into the water. I didn't want to go with two 20 gallon air pumps because I disliked how violently the water churned in the tank. I was worried that the fish would have no place to rest in the tank in spite of the plants I put in.

And in regards to the frog idea, that's OK, I can live without it. I just thought it would be neat to have one. I was looking at eels in the profile section too until I kept seeing that every type seems to get too big. *sigh*

And I've been thinking about what someone else here said about the gravel, and I'm thinking about supplementing all my stones with some regular non-colored gravel. See, the stones I have are all different shapes and sizes, some tiny and round, others are marble size and shaped, and others are smoother flat "stones", and then there's the really big ones that look like smoothed-over triangles. So, I don't think there's as big of gaps as the other person (sorry, I don't remember their name) thinks. But maybe if I mix in some regular gravel, that would help? I'm also planning to pick up a couple more plants and another type of decoration. One that would be more cave-like to give the fish more places to find shelter.

Is that a good idea?

What Gourami means about a small African cichlid set-up is that you would only keep african cichlids. African cichlids have specific requirements that do not match your bread and butter tropical fish, such as hard water and high pH. They also tend to be aggressive and can't be kept with most community fish.

I haven't kept spotted headstanders (Chilodus punctatus). I'd ask your local private fish store to see if they can order them in. They are uncommon, but not impossible to find. I've certainly seen them a few times. You may have to wait for several months, though... I think they are schooling, however, so I'd consider getting more than just 2 of them.

A pearl gourami would be a good choice; they are one of my favorite types of gourami.

Kuhlis are fairly discrete, so most fish won't even notice them. I would not worry about most types of fish being aggressive towards them.

It's not really a good idea to have two vastly different sized gravel sizes. What will happen is that all of the small ones will fall through the cracks of the big ones and just wind up all on the bottom, rather than being evenly mixed through.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

OK, thank you Shinigami!

Well, maybe I'll add the pearl gourami to my other list then, because I'm really leaning toward doing a gourami tank. I just love the size and colors I've seen in them. And that's good to know that I can add the kuhlii loaches to the mix (if I can find them), and maybe the dwarf frogs too (see my other thread "My 37 gallon aquarium" )?

And OK, I won't get the "normal" gravel then. I'll leave the current mix I have. They all do seem to sift and mix pretty evenly (for now, at least, lol).

And I'll go edit my other post (again, lol) seeing as you've already answered the gravel and loach question.

Thank you!!!!

Hi Delenn
I've been jumping back and forth between several of your
postings concerning your tank and the fish you might be
able to keep in it. In your one post, you realize that
you will "probably" have to vacuum the gravel once a week.
You are correct. That will be the only way in that tank
to control the build up of detritus within the gravel. That
will allow you to control the quality of the water in the
tank and maintain a reasonable nitrate level within the tank.

You have what is called a "Tall" tank. In this case it is
nearly as high (tall) as it is long and only 12 inches
deep. That is not allot of swimming room. "Swimming room"
is something that you need to think about when you decide
to keep the larger fish, not only do they need tanks whose
length and width give them room to "get up a head of steam"
but you also need to furnish a number of gallons of water
per fish.

The main thing to keep in mind when stocking a tank, is
the surface area of the tank and how many fish, despite
the number of gallons the tank is, that the tank can support.

The surface area of the tank is the length times the width
(usually measured in inches) and the result is in Square
Inches.

The article in this link describes the surface area to fish
ratio:
http://www.myfishtank.net/articles/how-many-fish-can-you-keep-in-a-fish-tank/

In this example, for instance, a common mature guppy
requires 3 square inches. It is the surface area that
allows the exchange of gasses (such as oxygen) between
the tank water and the atmosphere. It really has nothing
to do with the number of gallons the tank is.
You could have a tank 1 foot square, and 5 feet tall, and
that would be a rather large number of gallons, but the
tank would not support the number of fish that it could
if it were laid on its side and open at the long side
(1x5 feet) instead of the 1x1 foot tank.

You are getting all sorts of suggestions for fish, and
cautions about what goes with what, etc. Keep the size
of your tank in the back of your mind as you dream of its
inhabitants. While patience may not be your best virtue,
with this hobby, you will need to develop it as if you
don't the fish will die, sometimes after terrible suffering
and none of us wants to see them go through that while you
learn. Among other things, you will need to purchase a
water testing kit that will test the Ammonia, Nitrite, and
Nitrate levels in the tank. To monitor the progress of the
Nitrogen Cycle, you will need that test kit so that you
know when it is safe to put fish in the tank. You should
know the pH, GH, and KH of your tank water so that you can
choose fish that live comfortably in water with those levels.
If you don't have a test kit, you can temporarily cut that
corner by taking a clean sample of your tank water to your
LFS and ask them to test it. Normally it is free, but if
you show no signs of getting your own test kit(s), they
might start to charge you for their services.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thank you very much Frank! Much appreciated.

Yes, I tend to take water samples to the pet store because I buy a lot of stuff at various ones (I have a dog and a cat, and now soon to be fish) so they generally don't mind doing the water test for me.

The last time I was in for a water test was right after the fish died, and the guy did a full test for me and he told me that everything was in normal levels for my tank except the ammonia which was too high, but the fish had just died a day or two before, and he said that was to be expected, and that I just need to get the ammonia level down and treat the tank for any remaining parasites and bad bacteria, and then do another water change, and I should be good to go.

So, I've followed his advice in that regard, and now I'm just trying to add more plants and decorations after reading here what different fish need, and deciding what kind of fish I want (which I am 99% sure I've figured out).

I am trying to figure out if I should add a floating plant though. I've been reading about that here, and I just don't know if it's necessary since I'm not planning to (and hoping it doesn't occur anyway) breeding any of the fish. But, I did see a couple different fake ones that the pet stores carry. Like I said though, I just don't know if I really need it.

As for cleaning? OK, I can do that once a week. That's not that big of a deal. Messy though, since I have about a 16 - 20ft walk back and forth from where the water source is, and the tank, lol, but that's what carpet is for, right?

Hi,
Yes, water changes can be a real pain! Here is what I use
for my water changes:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/detailed_image.cfm?pCatId=17879&large=/images/Categoryimages/larger/lg-157307-20996P-reptile.jpg

Actually, it's used in aquariums and also reptile tanks.
I just typed the word "python" on the site and this is what
came up. The picture illustrates its use.

You have already broached the plant subject and you
mentioned that you have a "Black" instead of "Green" thumb
when it comes to aquatic plants. If you look at where the
fish come from, it would help as far as plants and types
are concerned. In some cases the fish live among plants
and if left without them they have a built in fear of
open spaces (too many predators from above). Others
live in areas where plants provide only some shelter and
instead they school and the quantity of fish in the school
provides the shelter to the individual.

As was mentioned in an earlier post, one should purchase
plants that match the light source. If you have low light
that is less than a watt to a watt and a half per gallon
then you must stick with low light demand plants.
The others will simply wither and die. Your problem is
also compounded by the height of the tank. Tanks that are
tall have a higher (deeper) water column that the light
energy must penetrate to reach the gravel surface. The
way to resolve that is to use fluorescent or compact
fluorescent bulbs and to increase the Kelvin rating
of the bulb(s) from 8800 to 10,000K. If you try to "bully"
the light through the water column by merely increasing the
wattage over the tank, then one generally just grows algae
instead of plants.

The next problem, is your "gravel" the large gaps between
"grains" won't allow the plants to anchor themselves, and
will allow algae or detritus to cake the roots smothering
the plants. In your case a potted plant would work.
Using small ceramic plant pots (the red clay ones) filled
with regular gravel or some potting soil and capped with
regular gravel would work just fine...and, allow you to
merely pick up the pot and clean the area with the siphon,
and then replace the pot where it came from or move it
around for different "looks."

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I strongly suggest you purchase your own water test kit. I had my water tested at both chain stores as well as a small fish store. I got a different result at each store and a sells clerk trying to convince me to purchase something to "fix" it. I purchased my own kit and found out there was nothing wrong with my water! In less than a week I had my water where it needed to be without additives. I'm not saying that additives are not necessary, but only when you are sure it's needed. Sometimes adding things to the mix just causes a bigger problem.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

I second that!!!



^_^

Thank you all for the suggestion of the test kit.

Frank, yeah, I have one of those siphon things, though mine doesn't have that thing in the middle of the hose. Mine is just the siphon and the long hose and then the water flows into the bucket. I'm always just afraid I'm going to catch the fish in it or something.

Um, as for the plants? Well, this is the first tank I haven't gone with "real" gravel. It doesn't seem to matter what size or shape or height the tank is or what kind of gravel I use. I had the same issues when I used "real" gravel. The plant would just decay and die.

So now I just use plastic plants. I like them better. I can get interesting colors if I want, I can get tall plants or short plants, and all I have to do is rinse them in warm/hot water and stick them in and they're good to go. And the best part? They never decay or die! lol.

And my tanks have always had flourescent lights. It's what always came with the lids, and I don't mess with lighting. Flourescents scare me though. I've heard that you're not supposed to touch the ends of the bulb. Luckily, as of yet, I've never had to change the bulbs. My fish usually die off long before that becomes an issue, and at that point I usually give up and dismantle the tank. I'm hoping this tank will be more successful.

Are test kits easy to use? I don't like touching chemicals and stuff, which is another reason I prefer the stores to do it.

The kits are very easy to use. There is no mixing or adjusting needed. You just fill the glass tube to the marked line, squeeze in the recommended drops, wait the alloted time, and compare it with the chart/cards. EASY BREEZY!

As far as the siphon goes... the fish usually will get out of the way. In fact they will probably watch close by hoping to find a tasty tidbit. My fish sometimes peck at the tube, trying to eat what comes up.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Lol. OK, that's good to know. I still worry though, mostly because I noticed that with the "gravel" I have, when I did have those danios, they were burrowing into the gravel. Then later, you'd hear this "splash" and they'd pop out from under the gravel. I'm assuming that's not normal?

But even so, because of that, and the fact that if I do end up with kuhlii loaches, I read that they do sometimes like to burrow, it would be especially easy with the "gravel" I currently have, and that's why I worry about killing them when I go to do the siphoning.

Oh, and thank you Kelly, I'm glad test kits aren't difficult. I'll look into getting one. I'm heading to my preferred pet store today to ask them a few questions.

I find the kits really fun, it's like pretending your a chemist.....course I'm easily amused .


When using the siphon, just slowly insert it into the gravel all the way down....the loaches should move out of the way. any fish that do enter the tube, and I've had my WCMM get stuck in the tube, usually dont make it through the hose, and if they do it's easy enough to net them out of the bucket and back into the tank .



^_^

Yeah, I think I'm more worried about accidentally chopping them. I just keep envisioning these horrid scenes of me siphoning the gravel and a loach or frog not getting out of the way, or me not seeing them, and "chop" goes the fish or frog. Gruesome thought, I know, but it's my biggest fear about cleaning the tank.

Unless your siphon tube is somehow razor sharp, I don't see that being a problem. If a slow fish somehow did get in the way, the worst you're likely to do is bruise them.

><>

With the size of your glass stones, I don't think they will be able to move them, much less burrow under them. I have the pea size gravel and the yo-yo's barely flip a few. They mostly wiggle their snoots in all the crevices.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Well, considering when I had the danios, they were able to burrow just under the surface of the stones and they'd stay there for an hour or so, and then they'd shoot out back into the open, this is why I'm concerned, lol. I figure that if the danios could burrow into the gravel, I'm guessing the loaches will be able to as well.

And thank you, superlion. No, the siphon isn't razor sharp, just big, and well, because it's thin, that's another reason I get concerned. I'll just have to make sure I'm more gentle when siphoning the tank with fish in it. Maybe I'm just being more vigorous right now because I know there's nothing I can hurt, lol.

Oh, and I just added the new decorations (more fake plants and a fake piece of hollow wood) and I was really afraid that it would be too crowded with the dragons and already existing plants in it. However, my jaw dropped when I saw the end results! It looks awesome! (to me, at least, lol)

I just added stress coat, the Aquel something, and the cycle, and the pet store guy gave me some copper-something, and it's to take care of any additional parasites, which I found out while siphoning the water out that it is needed because I'm still finding worms in the gravel. I'm now 99% sure that they're plant worms of some sort, because how else could these icky things still be alive? There weren't anywhere near the amount I found the first time I cleaned out the tank last week, only one or two that I saw, but still, I'd like to be rid of them before adding new fish.

I'll take pictures if I can of the updated tank. I'm really proud of it! There's dense clumps of plants, and open space to swim in, so it should be perfect for the gouramis, frogs, loaches, and rams! YAY!!!!!!