FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Wait... Have you got a heater in that tank? You'd want to. You need a heater of sufficient size and the general rule of thumb is 5 watts per gallon for the heater. So a 250 - 300 watt heater will do the trick. Even though you have adequate heating for the house, turning it on and off during 24 hours will fluctuate the tanks temperature. This will stress the fish and leave them e to disease. Trust me, it is better to have a heater than not.

Also what are you going to put in this tank fish wise. Its hard to work out what is going in it over the list of multiple posts. I still think it is going to be grossly overstocked. It might not seem overstocked compared to the other tanks you have seen at friends places or at the fish store, but they are. A general rule that works well for community tanks is one inch (mature size) of fish per gallon.

I know nothing about newts, but I'd be cautious about keeping them with smaller fish as I would expect them to be quite opportunistic predators.

I can't remember if you stated what filtration you will have on the fish tank, but could you list it again?

I'll write up a possible hypothetical stocking list (no newt) of fish that would fit into a 55 gallon tank.

Fish Specimens (adult size)
2 Angelfish (6 inches)
8 Black Ruby Barbs (2.5 inches)
8 Redeye/Lampeye Tetras (2.5 inches)
4 Yoyo Loaches (4 inches)

Mind you that is 68 inches of adult fish and thats going over the rule of thumb for the amount in a community tank but if that tank had adequate filtration (i.e. two good sized HOB filters or a large canister filter for example) and the fish were added gradually (i.e. one species every two or three weeks after the tank is cycled (if you don't know what cycling is make a new thread of the matter,
it is important)). The tank should be fine and would look very lively and beautiful.

Alrighty Gomer,
This is what we have so far:
1. AquaClear filter for 40-70 gal tanks
2. Tetra Air pump for up to 100 gal
3. and a Guardian heater for 30 gal (it actually keeps the water within 72-75F
4. Python pump for water changes/cleaning

the plants we have so far:
Scarlet Temple(1) (in my opnion the prettiest)
Frill plants (2)
Cabomba (1)
Moneywort (1)
Corksrew val.(2)

I'll be hunting down,
Dwarf anubia, java fern, and undulated crypto
We've discovered that we had a few hitchhikers on the plants, SNAILS! I'm hoping whatever inhabitant we chose will make quick work of those.

We still need to purchase lamps, scraper, nets, lid/screen, and feeder rocks.(to weigh down foods like lettuce)I know something we chose is going to be a omni, or herbi.

My "other half"(husband) likes your list, with the exception of the Lampeye tetras. He wants to see them up close, in a school. We may look to see if any of the LFS has any or all them. We may have to scale down on the tetras. (6 instead of 8) I have to check on the compatiablity of the newt. The kids a pretty determined.
According to the beginning research:
Cynops pyrrhogaster, Japanese fire bellied newt, averages about 3.5 to 5 inches (9-12 cm)
Chinese fire bellied newt, Cynops orientalis, is a bit smaller at 3-4 inches (6-10 cm)
They tolerate room temperature (70 F/21 C) but will be happier at slightly lower temperatures - 68 F (20 C) or a bit lower are more ideal.
Bloodworms, frozen or live, seem to a favorite among newt keepers. These (especially the frozen bloodworms),earthworms (chopped), brine shrimp, glass shrimp, daphnia, and freeze-dried tubifex cubes. Larger newts, particularly the larger Japanese fire bellied newt, may also eat feeder guppies if offered. {When it gets this big, it's getting it's own habitat.)
Cut and pasted from--- exoticpets.about.com/cs/salamanders/a/firebelliednewt.htm

They will eat just about anything they can fit in their mouth. So we have to watch everyone's mouth sizes, since most of the fish we are thinking about are the same way. What can go in the mouth; will be eaten.

I hope this covers everything.
Okay, I'm off to bed.. I've got to finish cooking later today. Happy Turkey day

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

I'm between dishes, right now, so I have time for a quick comment.

After talking, we decided that we will put the newt in its own habitat.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

The yo-yo loaches should make quick work of the snails

><>

We have 6 neon tetras to cycle the tank. If they make it, I will give them a fish bowl. I don't think the kids will allow them to be sacrificed to the permanent tank inhabitants.
I also purchased a scraper, fine net, tank lids, freeze dried bloodworms, TetraMin tropical flakes, and a shop light (from the LHS). The spouse is not to happy with my choice in lighting. We priced a 4 foot aquarium light @ $69. (that's $53 more than the shop light & bulbs.) Aside from the looks (his argument) & the price (my argument):
the aquarium light has only 32 watts vs. 40 watts on the shop light.
the aquarium light has a reflective backing vs. the plain backing of the shop light.
the aquarium light is corrosion resistant vs. the corrosion e shop light.

Someone help us sort this out!
Remember we have lids now.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi,
Actually, in your list of pros and cons, you pretty much
sorted things out for yourselves. You two will just have
to compromise a bit. The shop light is an excellent idea
in that it solves the watts per gallon problem and
inexpensively solves the hood problem. And, the "other
half" is right, especially if the tank is in a "public"
area, the shop light is not very pleasing to look at.

I know, I'm no help!

Mail order should help shave some $$ off of a new hood:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3733

What really concerns me is the revelation that you are
cycling the tank with 6 neon tetras! It's not gonna
happen, especially a 55 gallon tank!
Perhaps you might go back into the FAQ for this site
and read the information on the Nitrogen Cycle.

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

Look at the fish that you are going to put in the
tank when cycled. Look at the size and mass of those
fish individually, and then collectively, and then look
at the neon tetra.
20 of them don't put out anywhere near the waste
products that a couple of your choices do. You should
be cycling that tank with larger and more hardy fish,
or even better yet, you should be cycling the tank
without fish (called "fish-less cycling.)

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html

Also, a true "fish bowl" strange as it seems, is
absolutely no good for fish.

Think about it. The surface area is absolutely critical
when determining how many fish should be placed in any
container as that surface area is the area where oxygen
exchange between the water and the atmosphere occurs.
All fish bowls taper closed toward the top. Ideally,
none should be filled more than the widest point of the
bowl, giving the maximum surface area for exchange.

Instead of a fish bowl, get a small 5 or 10 gallon
rectangular aquarium for the tetras to call home.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank,
You've really knocked the wind out of my sails! I tried to argue, dressing up the shop light. First finding a good primer, like rustoleum. (to help slow corrosion rate) Then painting it a nice aquatic color with decals. But alas, that's going nowhere. Thanks for the link to Dr. Fosters. We may go with the underwater puck lights, in addition to some other form of above lighting.

As for cycling; what do you suggest? We saw some huge goldfish... I didn't get the names.(I think Koi) They were about 4"-6". Or how about squeezings from the petshop filters. (Husband doesn't like that idea, fear of disease) I'm sorry, but cycling is a hard concept.

As we have a inkling that the order of introduction to the tank should be:
bottom dwellers first
tetras next
then barbs,
Lastly angelfish
Are we correct? Believe me, we will not be rushing it! But I would like to have at least one of the permanant tankies by Christmas. This way the kids don't drive me nuts.

We have an extra 10 gal, but we were going to give that to the newt. I have to check around for a 5 gal for the neons.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi,
Actually, when I had my 55G tank, I used a two tube
shop-light. To resolve the possible corrosion problem, I
had a piece of glass cut that covered the entire tank
(all but the last 1.5 inches across the back) and laid
the shop-light on the glass. Mine was a glossy white color
as I recall. The white glossy paint reflected the light
back into the tank very well. I had that tank set up with
Oscars in it for 7 years while I was stationed with the
Navy in Millington TN. The hood never rusted and looked
as good, 7 years later, when I sold the tank and fish.
In case you are interested, the 1.5 inch gap along the
length of the back gave me room for siphoning (weekly
water changes) and the tank heaters as well as the filter
hoses. Yes, I did loose an occasional small feeder fish
who jumped out of the tank and became cat food.

In a sense the Nitrogen Cycle is an easy concept to grasp.
Basically, fish, in the process of eating and giving
off waste - one of the waste products is Ammonia.
Ammonia, if it accumulates, will burn the fish's
gills (much the same as a baby's butt if left in a
urine soaked diaper over night [turns red]) and will
scar the gills so that they do not extract oxygen from
the water and the fish drowns.
Fortunately, there is bacteria floating through the
air that lands on the water and starts to eat the ammonia.
That bacteria's waste product is a chemical called Nitrite.
It too is toxic to fish and has
similar effects to the fish gills if it is allowed
to accumulate. But, nature has taken care of that
as well. There is another bacteria that eats the
Nitrite and it's waste product is Nitrate.
Compared to Ammonia, and Nitrite, Nitrate is harmless to
fish, and is "eaten" by live plants. Between regular
water changes, and live plants, the Nitrate is
prevented from accumulating to dangerous levels.

Mulm ( the brown "dirt" or detritus) found in the gravel
of a mature tank is excellent for "jump starting" the
Nitrogen Cycle. The thing is, THE KEY is ammonia a
component of fish urea. The "squeezings" you mention,
or the mulm from a mature tank merely eliminate the first
step in the process. That is letting ammonia build up and
the first bacteria floating through the air discovering it
in the tank and then starting to build bacteria colonies
living on that ammonia. If you get the stuff from another
tank, and add it to yours, you must have fish in the tank
to provide those bacteria colonies with ammonia so that the
colonies thrive and grow throughout your tank. Just dumping
the stuff in the tank, with no fish, or no ammonia, will
starve the colonies to death.
Your "other half" is right, you "could" introduce a
parasite or some disease through the borrowing process.
You would want to be absolutely sure that the tank you are
getting the stuff from is disease free or just skip it.

I've not started a new tank with fish in 40 years,
and frankly I don't know what is in vogue now days
for that purpose. I use the "Fish-less" method.
Read the link on the nitrogen cycle and see what is
suggested. You want hardy, active fish and that
eats a lot and eliminates a allot of waste. Generally
speaking the larger live bearers fit that bill. Platies,
Swordtails, are good. Some use a school of Zebra Dianos.
The THING is... whatever you choose to cycle the tank with
should be something that you want and would also keep in
that tank once it's cycled. The reason is that most LFS
will not "loan out" fish for cycling purposes. You buy it
you are "stuck" with it and will need to provide for them
until they die, or you can give them away to someone else.

Just some thoughts...

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hey Frank,
My husband says, "It's Saturday night and he has a six pack. Can he pee in the tank to jump start the process?"

Please don't encourage him!

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

We went to 2 new fish stores today, to see if they have any yo-yo loaches. One store said he could order them for us. We haven't seen any in the other stores we've gone to. The advice we recieved about cycling is to use the hardier fish (tetras or barbs) that we intend to keep for cycling the tank.

Also, the attendant of this store suggested that we not "start" our cycling with the loaches, as there is no "waste" in the bottom of the tank to eat.
But my idea is that:
bottom feeders have a large output,
can be feed with sinking chips/wafers,
and if they live through the cycling, I won't be stuck with a fish I have to find room for or a new home.

Also, my "other half" thinks the underwater lights will be sufficient. (no over-head lighting) I'm not sure. I really don't want to run into problems, but if it's something that can be addressed later... maybe we can cool our heads and wait. (one of us will cave)

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Cycling process is very very stressful on fish.

Do not EVER use bottom feeders
Do not use Tetras
Do not use goldfish


In fact, I've seen many suggest not to use any fish at all as it is a very stressful process for the fish to go through. Basically the ammonia they produce has to build up in high enough amounts that it's harmful to the point of being lethal for most fish. But then, not only do they have to survive nearly lethal amounts of ammonia, but they have to do it again with nitrIte before the nitrAte can start to bring the nitrite numbers down to a level where it wont out right kill everything in the tank.

Fish that I've cycled a tank with have included WCMM, Rosy barbs, and zebra danios. They were all fish I was already planning on keeping. If you are not planning on stocking the tank with the fish you wish to cycle with, dont use fish to cycle with.

I suggest fishless as the best method like frank suggested. You dont need to use ammonia if you havent got any, it can be done with the decaying fish food, which will then create the ammonia as it decays. Please inform hubby that his help is NOT required .

Lighting.
Underwater? That's not going to help with plants at all. I don't see the wattage as being enough to be of any use to the plants. Besides if I were a fish () I'd be swimming sideways cause someone put the sun somewhere other than directly over the gravel.

If you've got a glass lid to the tank, pop over to home depot or any local hardware shop, look for a dual bulb shop light. With the measurements of the 55 you could probably use 2X dual 20's to get 80watts. The glass lids will protect the lights from tank, I had the dual tube fixtures on two of my tanks. Used some MDF to make a quick cover for them.

However if you're not planning on adding CO2 to the tank, don't go over 2wpg as you'll end up with algae issues since algae is able to out compete the plants for the extra light.


Back to the yoyo loaches. Don't cycle with them. Ordering in fish isn't out of the ordinary, many stores can't properly look after fish ( ) and tend to keep only the hardier and better selling ones in stock, ordering others in when there is an interest shown. Look carefully at all the tanks in the store. If you see sick or dying fish, floaters, or signs of ick (looks like salt on the fish) I'd suggest not giving your money to such an establishment.
When stocking a new tank it's best to stock from the top down. Water quality tends to be the best at the surface, making it easier for surface fish to deal with issues like wonky water quality that can sometimes pop up in new tanks. Gas exchange happens at the surface which is why tanks with bigger surface area are always better. And why more surface movement is best for fish.


PS:
Read again through some of the above postings. KOI??? that small scream you heard half way around the world was me screaming NO ! Koi need 2,000 gallons plus in a pond. Yes, that comma was in the right place, two thousand. Goldfish are also a very bad idea as they are large fish. You could keep one of the ornamental varieties (deformed fish IMO) in a 75 gallon but that's all that would go in. Goldfish are also pond fish. Somewhere, I don't remember where, a few years ago I found this pic of someones lovely example of a healthy oranda goldfish

From what I've heard, bruce there is even bigger today than what he was a few years back. And no, that's not a kid holding him


^_^

Hi Bablefish!
My family loved your reply. (I read most out loud to the family as well as the article links supplied in the reply posts. Sometimes they actually listen.)
I tried to take pics. You can somewhat see our progress ---> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kellysfishylife/

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hey Frank,
I tracked down my cousin (who has 50 million tanks) and asked him where he gets his lighting from, or if I could by lights from him. He's going to give me a couple 5 & 10 gal set ups. I love it when family comes thru for ya! Now, I just have to wait until his hunting trip is over. (he was up in a tree, when I called him.)


Hey Bablefish,
Sorry I mentioned Koi. It's so easy to get a rise out of you guys. I'm not particullarly fond of most variants of carp. Muddy fish, bad taste. The kids freaked at the photo. One of the questions they asked was, "Is it dead?" When I told them, "NO, just held out of water for the photo." My youngest reply was, "It should be to put it out of it's misery. It lookes deformed and retarded. Why would you want a fish that looks that way?" How can you answer that one? Other than, some people are entertained by the deformed and retarded.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Not so much a rise, as trying very hard to prevent people doing some rather silly things .

If you haven't noticed yet, we here at FP care more about fish than just about any fish store. They usually just care about making you happy and making a profit .

What's been done to ornamental goldfish, over hundreds, if not thousands of years normal 'common' golden carp have turned into mutations to bring out certain coveted aspects. To me all fish taken out of the water look a little unhappy (you should see me when Adam has the fishing shows on!). Oranda goldfish look a little more fishlike when left in the water.
My opposition to the koi was trying to point out the fact that 1.fish stores will sell fish 2. fish stores will sell fish that need huge quantities of water. 3. fish stores will sell fish that need huge quantites of water (koi needing 2K gallon ponds (minimum) is an example) without bothering to check, care or ensure that the fish are going to a proper home.

There are plenty of examples, koi, red tailed catfish, iridescent sharks, pacu... the list goes on (and that's just the freshwater side!) of stores having fish for sale that are not reasonable in a home environment.

Nice dragon! Is it from a fish store though? I'm suddenly worried that it might be designed for a garden and may leech difficulties into the tank.

If you're getting 5's and 10's. Keep the 5 unoccupied (I know it'll be hard) for use as a quarantine tank and a hospital tank should the need arise. All fish should be given 3-4 weeks qtine time as you bring them home from the store as you do not want to go introducing any nasties into the tank. As the old saying goes, it's better to be safe than restocking a fishtank! I think it's something like that anyway .
The 10 can then get a few small slim bodied fish if they need a home.

Like frank said the neons won't be enough to cycle the 55, you'll need something larger, and tetras (especially neons!) tend to be very delicate fish. Using a dead fish to cycle isn't really what most of us would prefer to see happen.

Another option is to pick up a bottle of Cycle or if your stores have it Biospira. I've used cycle before, though I think they've since changed their formula to be more like Biospira. Cycle (when I used it) was shelf stable and fairly cheap. It boosts bacterial colonies and will cycle a tank in a few days time. Cycle is also good for keeping on hand should there be a need to help boost bacteria colonies, say after an extensive power outage.
Biospira on the other hand is a tad expensive, needs to be refrigerated and not carried by all stores, but it will (from what I remember reading here a test another member ran with some) cycle the tank overnight. Especially if the first fish are good hardy fish.

One other thought on the 5 and 10, best to check with your brother once he's come out of the tree you drove him up (sorry I couldn't help it! ), that the tanks have been used recently. Old unfilled tanks can sometimes have their silicone dry out and therefore not seal. If he's not sure they can be checked by placing them on newspaper (or flattened cardboard) in the garage or somewhere other than the family heirloom persian rug where it wont matter if they get wet. Then, slowly fill the tank with water, not letting any fall on the newspaper. Leave the tank overnight and if there are any water marks the next morning you know you have a leaking tank.

Ok, think that was all my thoughts.... Oh, can we get an updated stocking plan? I'm looking back at the first post with the plecos and bettas and cringing.

^_^

Okay Bablefish,
For plants we have
1 Scarlet Temple
2 Frill plants
3 bunches of Cabomba
1 Moneywort
2 Corksrew val.
1 bunch of java moss
1 dwarf anubia
1 java fern?

As far as a potential stocking for the tank, Gomer gave a list my husband finds agreeable.
2 Angelfish (6 inches)
8 Black Ruby Barbs (2.5 inches)
8 Redeye/Lampeye Tetras (2.5 inches)
4 Yoyo Loaches (4 inches)
I haven't found any yoyo's, but one of the fish stores said they could put them on order for me. I didn't know that the black ruby barbs, don't look as pretty (full color) until they reach adult age. It makes them harder to identify when they're in a tank of tiger, jewel, or red tetras for a novice like me.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Sounds pretty good, The barbs would be my first in. I still say picking up some bacteria starters would be good.

You'll also want to look into CO2 units for the plants. I lost my scarlet temple when I didn't refill my co2 unit.

Some of those plants will be a little higher need than others.


^_^

I gotcha. I'm actually going to check on getting the Cycle bacteria today. But as I mentioned earlier, I'm so afraid of mis-identifying the barbs and getting the more nippier Tigers by mistake. Then not realising that I have the wrong type until much later. We want to get as many as possible as juvies. This way, the kids can watch them grow and change coloration.

Also, we may downsize the barbs to 6. Do you think that would be OK? Or will that give them more reason to nip at the other fish when they are added. Also, I read that I should not introduce more than 3 at a time. So should we intro 3, wait a week and then get 3 more etc.? Or just get the whole group of each species at one time? i.e. get all barbs first, wait 1-2 weeks, then get all the tetras, etc.

As far as the plants go, he's not keen on the CO2. We're not looking forward to gardening in the house. He can barely be made to do it outside. (gotta love him for his logic!)

By the by, we're sticking with the shop light. (He caved)

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

You may start to notice some of the plants struggling and then dying off without the co2. That's fine, I'm all for easy tanks, if they're hassle (semi)free then that means you'll enjoy them more. If any given plant doesn't do well, don't buy the same one, even if it means changing around the aquascape. Stick with the plants that are doing well. The java fern and anubias should do great. Some of the others may do fine as well.

Barbs are pretty tough fish IME, I think they should do ok all being put in at once, considering the volume of water to how few fish you're adding to start. But leave it with just the barbs for a few weeks, maybe even three. Just to be on the safe side.
Do you have a test kit? If not Big Als has them for much cheaper]http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18538/si1380887/cl0/aquariumpharmaceuticalsfreshwatermastertestkit[/link] than most any LFS. I highly suggest the master kit as you'll want ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte right now to monitor the cycling process. PH is also useful to know. The kids will probably have fun testing the water (I know I do ) Much cheaper than buying them individually, and so much more accurate than the dip strips. BTW they also sell [link=cycle. Both should also be at your LFS, in fact if they dont' carry them I'd find another LFS.

You mentioned ID'ing the barbs. I would't like seeing all the barbs mixed in the tiny tanks that LFS have them in, that's really rather mean. See if all the LFS in the area do that, you might find one that has them separate. Looking at the photos the black ruby barbs seem to have a slightly more elongated body compared to the tiger barbs, though that could just be the images I'm seeing.


^_^

The LFS had the "CYCLE". Since I have a 55 gal tank, I calulate 11 capfuls. (the directions say 2 caps per 10 gal to start the cycle, then repeat every 7 days for 2 weeks.) Now my question is, why do I have to add it at half dose weekly, after the 2 week cycle? The box says every week for maintanence, but if I have the barbs, won't they be doing the job?

My daughter reminded me the LFS had only 2 types per tank. I was just confused, because the black rubies didn't look like the picture. ( because they were juvies) I thought they had mixed up the tank with tigers, and roseys. (they were in tanks somewhere close by) I'm getting cross-eyed looking at so many fish.

As a side note, my husband says he's sure you have a brother that's offered to start your tank for you You have to pardon him, like Peter Griffin {Family Guy}, I think he's slightly retarded.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

*scratches head* well unless I have a brother I didnt know about


Ok, there's debate about the long term use of cycle. We used to have a member here (passed away a few years ago) that would dose cycle with every water change. From my understanding, long term a tanks beneficial bacteria may end up being out competed by other forms of bacteria causing the ammonia to not be converted properly causing all sorts of wonkyness. His theory on dosing weekly with cycle was that you maintain the good bacterias in large enough populations that other less good bacteria will never get a foothold.

That being said, I've never used cycle on a regular basis and can't really support it or claim that it's necessary. For me it's good to have on hand for emergencies, such as power loss for a few days, or after a heavy medication dose.

Good thing you've got an extra set of remembering there! It can get a bit overwhelming, just remember to double triple check if there's anything you're unsure about when buying stock, these are little lives you'll be responsible for after all


^_^

Do you think the yo-yos will play nice with a few ghost shrimp? Or could the ghost play nice with the neons? I want a few crusties! I'm tired of the kids dragging me to the lobster tank at the grocery store.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

It is hard telling if the yoyo's will play night with the shrimp or not. I have two skunk loaches in my 55G with a breeding colony of Cherry shrimp. The loaches sure do not seem to be putting a dent on the shrimp population if they are eating them. I have not caught them attacking a shrimp but I am not sure what happens at night in the tank. One thing the shrimp have going for them is that my tank is quite densely planted so there is plenty of cover for the shrimp to hide in.

Moral of the story, you could try it but be prepared for the shrimp to become part of the food chain.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

New issue. While arguing over the lighting option, the moneywort is now covered in slime, and is brown. I finally hooked up the shop light anyway. (He caved once he saw it on the tank.) The scarlet temple has also suffered, but looks like it's having a slow come back. (the light is directly over it. The problem is I'm torn between pulling out the plants, or keeping them for the yo-yo's? I'm sure they would enjoy the algae meal and the rotten leaves. (the stems/stalks of both plants appear sturdy.) I know the snails are enjoying full run of the tank. Moley has multiplied by 10 or 20 now. The neons try to eat the ity-bity baby snails but they don't make a dent. I digress. We won't be getting the barbs until Tues. Then a week or two later the tetras. So the yo-yo's will probably be at least a month away. (I think we'll get the angelfish last.)

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Pull any rotting or dying plants.
Just like the animal waste the plants will cause an ammonia spike, and that's not what you want in a new or cycling tank .

Once the plants have the right light and nutrients, they may make a comeback. However you may also lose a lot of them due to lower light and lack of CO2.

^_^

I actually had the water tested today
ammonia .5
alkalinity 120
hardness 150
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
ph 7.2

I checked on CO2 pills, but got "Leaf Zone" instead. I'll see how that works for the plants that I keep. I'll pull the moneywort.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi,
Your tank is only now just beginning to cycle (ammonia .5)
and with a reading that low, it could actually be a false
reading due to the cycling chemicals that you have added.

I would NOT add any addition fish until you see the
ammonia climb (it can reach as much as 6ppm, during the
cycling process) and the nitrite begin to appear (it can
reach as much as 10ppm in a cycling tank).

Cycling a tank generally takes 4-6 weeks... Wait before
adding more fish.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

What frank said
No adding fish till the tank is fully cycled


I never had much success adding ferts of anykind, made worse algae issues. CO2 tabs don't supply the right type of co2 IMO. However if you want to get rid of spare cash I can tell you my address (kidding )

^_^

Frank and Babel
Just wondering as the tank is cycling I've been doing water changes and adding water as it evaporates. Does that make a difference in cycle time... I've had this tank up and running since November 1st.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi,
Yes, regular water changes in a cycling tank can lengthen
the time it takes for the tank to cycle. As the waste
products accumulate and the bacteria that eats it increases
things will come to a even keel and the tank will settle
down. When you dilute the "soup" with fresh water changes
then things take a step back. Top off water does not
necessarily do that as you aren't removing any water just
replacing what has evaporated and the accumulations
continue to increase.
The only time I would do a water change is if the fish
start showing stress from the cycling process... gasping
at the surface, rapid breathing, or fish that would
normally be swimming laying on the bottom.
Ammonia can reach a 5 and nitrite a 10 in the process.
Watch the fish, they will tell you when you have to change
the water. It takes 4-6 weeks to cycle a tank with the
the correct ratio of fish mass to water.

You should test your water and see what the ammonia,
nitrite, and nitrate readings are now. Had you posted
them along with your question we would be better able to
help you.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I plan to have the water tested in the morning. I will post the results.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Test results:
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 10
Total clorine 0
Alkalinity 80
PH 6.8

I think I will buy my own test kits next week. This guy gave me a hard time about writing it down. I'm not quite sure he knew what he was doing. He recommended Seachem Prime to knock down the Nitrate & Nitrite.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi,
Assuming (we all know what that means ), that the
readings are correct, they are telling you that the
tank is not yet fully cycled. The Ammonia AND Nitrite
must both read zero before one can say that the tank is
fully cycled.

Once cycled, in a fish only tank, then you would
want to "manage" the tank (water changes and
gravel vacuumings) to bring the Nitrate down to zero.
In a tank with plants then you have some "slack" there
as it is recommended that one keeps the Nitrate between
5 & 10.

You are nearly there, the ammonia is 0 and the nitrite
is well on its way out as the nitrate is starting to climb.
Honestly, I would not use any chemicals on the tank.
Everything you are doing is working - Why mess with it?

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

After strong suspicions that the LFS employees didn't know what they were doing, testing my tank water, I took a sample to a second store, the next day. His results was totally different. He said everything was fine except I had a high ammonia read. Oh, was I hot under the collar. I then went to back to Petsmart and bought my own test kit. MY results from the API freshwater master test kit today are:
PH 7.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 1
Nitrate 0

My husband is adamant the filter/case has to be cleaned. I have to agree. (the insides are quite slimy with algae) What do you suggest with cleaning. If I use tank water, am I doing a water change/replacement? Can I get away with just filling my bucket with city tap and putting water conditioner in it?

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

If the filter is clogged to me that means the filter cannot handle the load being put through it.

Always Always use tank water! It's the safest.

In the case of your filter, most of what's in there is your bacteria that you're trying to grow, the bacteria clings to every surface; sides of the tank, substrate, plants, decor, and especially the filter. That's what the sponges or noodles or bioballs or wheel on a filter is there for, giving the bacteria a place to live! By rinsing it you end up washing all that good bacteria you've put you fish through so much for away.

Having nitrite in the tank is reasonable at your stage of cycling, how many weeks has it been again? 3? 4? you're almost there, I'd highly suggest waiting till the nitrIte is gone and the nitrAte is present. Removing any bacteria at this point just sets you back and makes the poor fish suffer longer.

Can you remind us what sized filter you're running on the tank?


^_^

Aquaclear power filter for 40-70 gallon aquariums. The box says it filters 300 gph. It's a HOB system with mechanical, chemical and biological inserts. (foam, carbon, and biomax)
It's not really clogged. It's just you can see the algae in the intake tube and on the outflow rim. When you lift the lid it's a thin flim on the lid. Basically no different then on the glass of the tank, but we can scrub that off with a sea sponge/scrapper. My husbands a bit of a neat-nic with his pets and it has rubbed off on me(just a little).

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi,
We should probably go over some basics with you.
First, the filter. A filter rated from 40-70 gallons should
be fine for a 55 as that is just about in the middle of its
range. However, the fish you say you are going to house in
that tank are all large fish. Large bodied fish, and fish
that are not only messy eaters, but also large waste
producers. I don't think that particular filter is going
to do the job that you want it to do. I'd skip the HOB
style and purchase a canister.

You mention that the inside of the filter is covered in
slimy algae. Is this a sheet of algae like a blanket that
smells, or is it green hair algae that is flourishing?
If it is the smelly sheets of algae, it is probably BGA
and you will need to eliminate it. Unfortunately, the
easiest way is to simply kill it. An antibiotic, Erythromycin
will kill it. The problem is that because the medication
is an antibiotic, it can be lethal to the bacteria that
perform the Nitrogen Cycle. Too little, and the algae will
continue to thrive, too much and you have to recycle the
tank all over again, just right, and you will partially
kill off the beneficial bacteria, but they will grow back
in time.

The beneficial bacteria colonies actually live
throughout the tank. They live on the sides and surfaces
of the tank and any ornaments. They encrust each grain of
gravel, and live on the surfaces of the filter and its
media. Most of the colonies actually exist in the tank and
on the gravel. The filter is the next larger reservoir for
the colonies.

Lastly, you seem to have set a deadline by which you will
start adding the main fish to the tank, and you seem adamant.
That bothers us as frankly the tank has not cycled. It's
not ready to house those fish. You have to have the tank
fully cycled. The Ammonia = Zero, the Nitrite = Zero, and
the Nitrate = some reading less than 10.
Now, once the tank is cycled, you can't just toss in
those fish all at once or even one kind, once a week.
With each addition of these larger fish, you have to give
the tank at least a week for the Ammonia, Nitrite, and
Nitrate readings to come back to their "normal" readings...
That is 0,0,something less than 10. Before adding more
fish.

This is not a hobby for folks who are impatient. You have
to wait for nature to take ITS course.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank. I can wait. It's the other natives that are restless. I'll go over these posts with "the spouse" and see what flys. I'm in no rush to spend more money. Besides, the newt & shrimp are quite entertaining. (Damn thing won't eat the ghost shrimp.)

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

I read the most recent posts to my "other half" and we checked the filter. The algae does not stink, nor is it thick. So we think it's okay. I will try to borrow a camera for pics. I'm not very good at taking photos. So bear with me. We re-read the instructions of the filter and we are past maintance for the carbon and at maintenace for the foam. I't a 1-2-3 system, carbon every month, foam every 2 months, biomax every 3 months. I think I will only replace the carbon every month starting now and leave the foam for next month, the biomax for the following month. I wanted to get a good foot in the cycling door before I messed with the filter.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

What frank said keep re-reading his posts if you ever get confuse he's been keeping fish longer than I've been alive ...errm yeah..

Ok, next, take the instructions and rip off the part about replacing the carbon every month, keep that and send the rest through the paper shredder.

You should never need to replace the foam in a filter, the ones that come with the AC filters is really tough and will take lots of squeezing twisting and rinsing. I've never been a fan of amrid ect, I'm assuming that's what the biomax is, does it say exactly what it does?

In my AC filters I run two blocks of foam. Every few water changes one gets squeezed out in a bucket full of used tank water, which then gets poured into the garden (the plants with : love it) then the refreshed foam gets placed on the bottom and the older unrinsed foam gets placed on the top. Few water changes later and the top one gets rinsed and placed on the bottom.


Keep the tank as lightly stocked as you can for now, that lets it mature more fully before adding more fish, and when you do add them do it slowly to let the tank mature to the new population. Like frank mentioned you're stocking some fairly heavy fish in the tank and the filter may not be able to keep up. If you're noticing a lot of waste on the bottom of the tank when you do a gravel vac you may wish to increase the frequency of your water changes and covering a smaller portion of the gravel with each change. You may also wish to consider a second HOB, or a powerhead to increase the chances of the filter picking up the waste before it settles too much into the gravel. There's lots of options out there.


Oh, and one last thing, the filter will get gucky, that's part of keeping fish, it's just a matter of how gucky it gets. If the filter isn't strong enough for the load it may get blocked and grow all sorts things (even fish). If its running normally you should notice a brownish buildup after a few weeks that you end up rinsing away in used tank water.


^_^