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Hi,
he's been keeping fish longer than I've been alive ...errm yeah..
Thanks for the complement Babel...

Carbon's use in filtration systems has been going on
for decades. When I first started in the late 50s,
all the average person had for filters were small
HOB filters that contained what looked like glass wool,
and "activated" charcoal. Instead of a pump to move the
water through the filter, we used a lift tube that had
an attachment for an air hose from your vibrator air pump.
You adjusted the flow of air so that you had bubbles of
air and water pulling the water from the tank into the
top of the filter. The charcoal layer was on top and
the the "filter floss" as it was called was the last layer
of filtration before the water was returned to the tank.
The purpose of the charcoal was to trap the organic
compounds as well as some heavy metals such as copper,
removing it from circulation. Depending upon the fish,
your husbandry, and the flow through the filter, the
carbon had to be replaced at some regular interval. That
was because after a certain time of immersion, it was
"saturated" and instead of being a chemical filter, it
became strictly a mechanical (particle) filter.

That was a long long time ago... Today's filters really
do not need carbon and it's use is mainly a hold over
from decades past. We now know the importance of regular
water changes and todays filters have huge amounts of
surface area that will house the bacteria colonies necessary
for the Nitrification Cycle. Today, there are only two
reasons to run carbon in a freshwater tank. To remove
the remnants of medications after a disease and to
remove tannins from fresh driftwood (turns the water yellow
in color - some folks hate that).

When done treating a tank for disease, virtually every
medication recommends at least one Large water change,
and then the use of carbon to remove the last vestiges of
the medication from the tank water. All of them say to
remove the carbon from the filter during treatment.

When adding driftwood to a tank, the wood will leach
stannic acid into the tank water. This acid will lower the
pH of the tank and also turn the water yellow in color.
It does not turn the water cloudy, it's as if you are
looking at the fish through yellow colored cellophane.
It is not harmful to the fish, but many dislike the "look"
and add carbon to their filters to remove it.

Additionally, using carbon in a heavily planted tank that
you are fertilizing is not recommended because the carbon
will remove some of the components of the fertilizers from
circulation and deprive the plants of the needed elements.

Unless you are trying to do one of those two actions, you
would be better served to add an extra block of foam to
the filter as Babel recommends. That will increase the
surface area for the bacteria colonies and won't need
replacing for years and years.

Adding Bio Max to your tank (filter) is like adding RIDEX
to your septic tank. It "refreshes" the bacteria colonies
with fresh bacteria. The theory is sort of akin
to needing new bacteria for the existent bacteria to
breed with so you don't the same populations breeding
with each other (problems with inbreeding) and
progressive weakening of the colonies from the inbreeding.
I, personally, don't think that we need to be
concerned about it because we simply don't leave tanks
set up for a long enough period for that problem to
take place.
Another reason for using it is based on the idea
that rinsing out the filter and its media with chlorinated
water will weaken the bacteria colonies and the new
stuff jump starts the nitrification process.


Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks to both of you. We've been running the filter as sold (foam, carbon, & biomax), since the beginning. We do have a planted tank, so should we remove the carbon? I did see another option in place of the ?carbon? at the LFS but I can't remember what it is right now... I'll have to look into it and report back. Hey is this slowing down the tank cycle?

Frank, you've been working with aquariums before I or my husband was a twinkle in the eye of our parents. But when you described the filters of olde, it brought back soooo many memories for the both of us! (We're not so young that we don't know about the filter floss & carbon) I think I have a relative that might still be using that setup.

Bablefish, okay you have to go really, really slow with me. When you said, "In my AC filters I run two blocks of foam. Every few water changes one gets squeezed out in a bucket full of used tank water, which then gets poured into the garden (the plants with : love it) then the refreshed foam gets placed on the bottom and the older unrinsed foam gets placed on the top. Few water changes later and the top one gets rinsed and placed on the bottom."

Okay do you mean... I'm to squeeze and swish into the bucket with the tank water. Or do I squeeze and then rinse with tap water. I think can manage the 2 foam switch setup, I'm sure.

Lastly (For Now!) If I remove the carbon, do I keep it until I need it? (after medicine treatments) And how do I prepare/store it until I need it (if I can keep it, that is)? Do I let it air dry? rinse it? if I rinse it do I rinse it in tap or tank water. I told ya, I've got lots of questions!

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Okay do you mean... I'm to squeeze and swish into the bucket with the tank water. Or do I squeeze and then rinse with tap water. I think can manage the 2 foam switch setup, I'm sure.

Lastly (For Now!) If I remove the carbon, do I keep it until I need it? (after medicine treatments) And how do I prepare/store it until I need it (if I can keep it, that is)? Do I let it air dry? rinse it? if I rinse it do I rinse it in tap or tank water. I told ya, I've got lots of questions!

Question 1 ~ Use a bucket with some tank water in it. Your bacteria colony will thank you for it.

Question 2 - How long has the carbon been in the filter? If it has been in there for more than a couple of weeks it is probably no longer active and has become a mechanical/bio filter instead of a chemical filter. Even if you pull it out of the filter and let it dry it will not regenerate or anything like that. I would recommend buying the bulk carbon and a media sock to put it in. Just keep this on hand if you ever need to add it to the filter later.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yeah, we have readings today!

Ph 7.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5

The kids are excited and ready to welcome more fish to the tank. I told them, they have to wait until Sunday. The LFS sells fish every day; buy 2 get the 3rd one free, but on Sundays the fish are 1/2 off on top of that!

Since the newt shows no inclination to eat anything alive. (it prefers frozen brine shrimp) And it hasn't made any attempt on the ghost shrimp (which loves to eat his poo). We witnessed that first hand the other night and were both fascinated and disgusted at the same time. We will put the neons in with the newt and hope they don't become a part of the circle of life. The water parameters are similar for the newt and the neons.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Okay, now I've uncovered another dilemma with the Angelfish! We wanted to purchase each species of the fish (angels, tetras, barbs, and loaches) as juvies so the kids could watch them change and mature. Now I find (out of a new topic thread) that I can't id juvie male or female angels. It was suggested that I buy a group and hope to get a pair out of it. Doing that would seriously overstock my tank. After talking it out with my hubby, we figured we could drop the tetras and get more angels. If we get a pair out of it, we will then decide if we want to give the others a new home. How big should the group be? 4 or 6 This is a 55 gal and will have 9 black ruby barbs, 3-4 yo-yo loaches, and whatever angel grouping will fit best.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

We're off to see the wizard....eeerrr...the Fish Store In the mmmmmorning. Unfortunately we have to wait at least 2 more weeks for the yo-yo's. They're imported. I was talking the store owner, around Chrismas, about the fish we were interested in. Lo and behold, she placed an order for them. Apparently, someone else in the store was looking for some loaches, and liked the idea too. I would have liked to get them tomorrow, since I want something to get a foothold on the algae. But alas, it is not to be... We will have to exercise a little more patience and wait a bit. So we'll be getting the group of Angles first. Let them get settled, and maybe by then the yo-yo's will be there. I love it when a plan comes together!

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi Kelly,
Gosh the Demon is loose!!! If ever there were candidates
for the dreaded disease M-T-S it is you guys!

Please allow me to digress...
In many respects fish keeping is much like stamp collecting.
When I got my first album and a bag of 1000 stamps, I was
excited beyond belief. I jumped into it and was determined
to collect every stamp I could from all over the world.
Eventually I realized that I could never do such a thing
and I decided that I would collect just stamps from one
country. Next I realized that I'd never accomplish that
goal either, so I settled on collecting mint (brand new)
stamps from that country starting with the year of my
birth and going forward. But, gosh! There are soo many
stamps... Mint stamps, Plate Blocks, Air mail, Postage
Due, First Day Covers... The list goes on and on...

I'm sure you saw the analogy early on.

Like the Peter Principle in which everyone rises to the
heights of their maximum inefficiency, we all seem to
settle into the heights of our maximum amount of available
money and time before "reason" settles in.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I get it!. I'm trying not to get another tank! Pretty soon we'd be over run with them. I read a few articles on the MTS, and most said they usually can't be bought. They just hitchhike on a new plant. The snails that started in my tank after my plant purchases, were pond/pest snails. And it appears they've died down, or hide very damn good. I see "Moley" or what appears to look like the original snail. But Hell, only another snail can identify another snail. I've seen empty shells every once in a while when we vacuum the tank. But early on I had a sneaking idea the neons were trying to eat them. Every once in a while I'd catch them nipping at the glass. Only to look really close and see a tiny speck of a snail trying to high tail it away.
I've seen some "Blue mystery snails" (Apple snails?)at Pets***t. But I think they would be easy targets for the yo-yo's. (if we ever get them) I don't want to spend a lot if it's just going to become feed. They are very pretty though....

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi,
Many of our members have the MTS in their tanks and I
suspect that someone would be glad to send you a few.
However, as you said, despite their living primarily in
the gravel, the yo-yo's would make short thrift of them.

Skip the snails with those fish.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I remember adam being overrun with MTS in his largest tank, and that was stocked with half a dozen clown loaches and cichlids. Only way the tank isn't still overrun with MTS is that its sitting empty, collecting dustfishies.

A followup on the sponge squeezing scenario. City water kills tank bacteria. You never want to rinse your sponges under the tap if you get water from any sort of water treatment plant. Some houses with wells also add or process their water. Even houses with water tanks may filter or otherwise process their water. You would probably know if your water is treated at all. Currently my tanks run on rain water collected into two large tanks on the side of the house, no treatment whatsoever. Even with that I'm still in the habit of running water into a bucket from the fishtank, squeeze and rinse the sponges in that (depending on how long it's been they can be pretty mucky) then do the rotation and back to the filter.


I agree with the bulk carbon . You can buy little net bags at the LFS or you can make one yourself. Some people love running it in their water full time, even if they keep plants. I prefer to use it only when it's needed, but it'll be up to you and your bank account to decide.

On the fish purchasing, keep in mind that the smaller schooling fish are schooling for security and thats why we generally suggest schools of 6+. Some fish are more shoaling but they still like to be in their larger groups if they've got something bigger and more aggressive than themselves in the tank.

on your water readings! Remember to add the stock slowly, check your water readings, and still give the tank a few weeks to adjust.


^_^

Yeah, about that... Last night before going to sleep, we planned on getting the angels. This morning before I went to work, we agreed to wait 2 more weeks, because we couldn't figure out a "safe" number of juvie angels to get. (We worried about the odd man out syndrome as they grow, and money being short from the holidays, etc...) I get home from work to find my "other half" has gotten 3 juvie angels and 3 snails (I have to ID those.) Ah well, C'est La Vie... it's par for the course Who ever follows a plan? So now I will adjust the plan and wait a week or two for 3 more angels and another 2 weeks for the yo-yo's. Let's see how fast this plan goes straight to H***.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Finally got a good look at the snails. (They were eating in the java moss) We have 3 apple snails. They're quite pretty, but not as big as the ones I saw at Pets***t. I guess that gives us time to watch them grow....

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}