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So, I've got a 10 gallon aquarium right now with a small mbuna cichlid and 3 juvenile neolamprologus brichiani in it. I'm wondering what fish I should put in and what I should make the aquarium look like visually? I was thinking 2 or 3 juvenile yellow labs and when my fish grow too big, ill move them to my 35 gallon tank.

Hi,
While you mention that the fish are juveniles, I think
you are kind of on the wrong track. With a ten gallon
aquarium, by the time you get enough rock in the tank
to make them feel at home, you will have displaced quite
a bit of water, and the tank won't be holding anywhere
near 10 gallons of water.

Personally, I'd think of something else.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

cichlidl0ver

I fully agree with Frank I have a 10+gal and I know I would have lost over 1gal. This is one of the biggest mistakes made by many fish keepers.
When things go wrong and they can very easily you would use the medications for a 10gal which means you have over dosed and this creates more problems.
You must measure accurately the water in the tank.

Then there is the over stocking which can very easily happen in a smaller tank.

You fish will certainly go bigger and out grow that tank. It would be far better to start them of in the bigger tank as this would not restrict their growth.

Keith

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huh thats strange. my mbuna is very scared of everything! hes the biggest wimp of a fish ever to live. I put a small slice of banana in because my lfs said that its healthy for them. he was scared of it and hid from it for an 1 hour then i had to take it out! hes also scared of me neolamp brichianis so im still not quite convinced. hes definetly big enough to eat the little neolamps, but hes scared of them!!

Your fish do not have enough room. I see one of 2 things happening- first your not going to be able to keep the smaller tank stable, because there are to many fish not suited for the tanks size, and they will stunt and die.
Or one fish will go on a rampage and kill the others to get the tank by itself.
Its your choice, we are just trying to help you!

k thanks for the tip its just that my fish arent doing anything! i want to get a really active fish (tried tiger barbs, didnt work they were bullied by my neolamps so i had to give them back. so all i can really use are cichlids now (good thing too, really like them) i also cant put them in my 35 gallon because its still cycling. my lfs said to wait a month before introducing new fish to it. so, if anyone knows of a cichlid (hopefully mbuna) that are peaceful and active. ive heard of yellow labs being vry peaceful, so im just wondering if thats true or not?

Ok, listen, do you want help, really??? Or are you going to continue to do what you think you want then complain that the fish arent behaving the way you like??? Im not being mean, just asking an honest question.

If you want help, you have to understand that just becasue a fish FITS in a little tank, doesnt mean it has enough room. A 7 yr old will fit in a closet, but that doesnt mean its big enough. They wont behave like a typical 7 yr old, they dont have room to. You can out a racing greyhound in a pet crate, and it fits, but you wont see it race, there isnt enough room.......

Different fish have different requirements: tank size, territory size, tank mates, tempurature, ph, food, and even decor.... you need to match these reqirements at home in your tank to the fish you keep. And the fish you have do not match your tank.

What you need to do is
1- get a test kit, test your water for PH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Report the results back here for both tanks.

2- what are you using to cycle the 35??? the cycle needs food( ammonia) what is your ammonia source??

3- while your at the LFS getting a test kit- take back the fish you have, and write down names of other fish they have that you like, and come back here and post.

4- we will work with you to get fish that you'll be happy with, and will be suitable for your tanks, BUT we need you to help youirself. You have been told many times but several people that what you have wont work in your tanks, and you havent yet listened.

Your not going to see a fishes true behavior, activity level, ect until its in a PROPER home, and when they arent in proper homes, they dont act like themselves. Also if your tanks have ammonia, nitrites or even high nitrates, they still wont act like themselves.

IF you are DEAD set on cichlids, there are some that will work, even africans, BUT you have to get things straightene out first, and we need test results.

please read the FAQ"S and articles on this site, and since you are intrested in cichlids, go to the cichlid forum here, and read the stickys at the top... there is a wealth of info there, including tank sizes, and tank mates for cichlids.

Most african rift lake cichlids tend to be territorial fish that do not swim very far from their territories. I'm pretty sure mbuna are rock-dwelling fish by definition, which means they tend to stick by their rocks and not swim too far from them. This is a very different ecological niche to the schooling fish like the tiger barb. If you want tiger barb levels of activity, you're not going to find it in any cichlid that can live in a 10 gallon aquarium for an extended period of time. The few cichlids that can be recommended for a 10 gallon aquarium, such as the shell-dwellers, tend not to swim very far, staying very close to their home shells. The few cichlids that are actively swimming, such as Cyprichromis, need aquaria at least 55-75 gallons or more, if I'm not mistaken.

It concerns me that your mbuna seems to be so flighty, because although I don't keep cichlids, that's not something I've seen mbuna tend to do; all my experience with mbuna is that they tend to come up to the front of the tank and beg for food. I don't know much about cichlids to comment on why it may be so scared...

If the mbuna is scared or stressed, though, that would explain why it might not "be doing anything". However, you don't note anything wrong with the brichardi, so they should be showing normal levels of activity. If so, you should expect this approximate amount of activity from most cichlids.

Although hca may be coming down a little hard, there is truth in what is being said. We cannot recommend fish for a tank that is overstocked based on adult sizes of the fish.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

I didnt mean to come down hard, But after reading many posts, the tank sizes kept changing, and he was advised against this, and added more fish anyway, and so on.... If anything I was probably a bit to blunt. I apologize if this was taken the wrong way.

for starters, the dimensions of my tank are:20.5 inches long, 10 inches thick and 11 inches high. my fish are: mbuna= 3 inches. my neolamps:1 inch each, except for one whos about 1 cm. my fossil fish are both very small aswell. my lfs said that i should put them in my 35, because they can probably survive the cycling. as for water parameters in my 10 gallon tank:NH3/NH4+ (Ammonia) - 0.50
NO2- (Nitrite) - 0 ppm (mgL)
NO3- (Nitrate) - 0ppm (mgL)
and my ph= 7.9.... are these ok? also, hca, sorry i wasnt listening before, im not an expert and i should probably take your advice.

Ok.

(Ammonia) - 0.50
NO2- (Nitrite) - 0 ppm (mgL)
NO3- (Nitrate) - 0ppm (mgL)
and my ph= 7.9.... are these ok?

your tank Is not cycled. Ammonia goes from 0, then up, then back down to zero.
then nitrites go from 0, then up , then back to 0
then finally nitrates go from 0, then up. this is the final stage, and finally fishy safe.

nitates are controlled by water changes.and need to stay below say 0-40.

a cycling tank cause stress to the fish, hurts them to kills them, and is probbaly one reason your mnuba is hiding.

you need to do small daily water changes, test often, and try to buy a bottle of benefical bacteria from the lfs, and follow directions.

also, africans like rockwork, the rocks bring the ph up to 8-8.5ish( use carbonate rock) and provides them with a territory and hiding and spawning sites. without rockwork, they simply arent going to be very happy fishes. Even in the 35 gal, by the time you add suffient rock work, your not going to have 35 galls of water, more like 20ish.This isnt sufficient gallonage for the fish you have, nor will it give them enough territory.

you need to look at the fishes full grown size and requirements. this is what we stock according to, to preven fututre problems, such as to many fish for tank ( and not being able to keep it fully cycled) territory disputes, and fish litterally growing to big for the tank, or not being able to grow, and stunting and then dying because of it.

Although your fish are small now, it's wise to plan for the future. The best case scenario is to have an appropriately-sized tank when you first buy a fish.

As far as purchasing bacteria to boost your bacteria colonies, I hear Seachem Stability works wonders. The early time of having a tank set-up is a delicate time because of the cycle.

Your pH is on the low side for an african rift lake tank. I'd consider getting some sort of rock or substrate that'll buffer the water, such as limestone or crushed coral. Rocks will also provide cover and structure that your cichlids will like.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

ok guys thanks for the ideas. ive got limestone rocks and ive put them along the back to make caves for the fish. they really like them!theyve been in and out of them 100 times and my mbunas marked her territory. she really doesnt care about the other fish when they go in it though.
as for the bacteria....my lfs doesnt sell seachem . i have a bio filter though and thats supposed to have bacteria colonies aswell, but im not sure.will this be okay?

Glad to hear they're loving the rocks; as rock-dwellers, they should!

A biofilter doesn't normally come with bacteria AFAIK; the bacteria develops over time, but biofilters provide high surface area for the bacteria to colonize.

You can make up for not having a way to boost your bacteria by keeping a hawk's eye on the water quality. You'll have to keep tabs on your water to make sure the ammonia and nitrites don't get too high by doing water changes. Again, it's a delicate time during the cycle, but managing it well you can pull through.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

this is very strange..... i had had the aquarium running for 3 years while i kept crayfish...... my last one died when he escaped from the aquarium and met his end in a cats stomach.... R.I.P Becks. i then waited a month while recycling the aquarium for cichlids. and the biofilter had been running the whole time so i dont know why the tank would be recycling.

IF there was no ammonia source, your bacteria died out.

Ammonia= fish poo, excess food, ect...

Indeed, if your tank did not have much in the way of organic matter for a month your colony could have died off. But on top of that, you my have a higher bioload right now than you did before; if you had a bacterial colony remaining, now it's gotta play catch-up.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Hi,
The bacterial colonies that are responsible for the
Nitrogen Cycle exist on every surface in the aquarium and
its water carrying components ( heaters, hoses, filters,
etc.)
The size of the colonies depends upon its food source - in
this case, ammonia. If the tank is established, and
the number or size of the fish is reduced, then the size
of the colonies shrinks. When the number or size of the
fish increases the colonies expand and
grow to fit the amount of "food" available to it.

This is one reason why when you have finished cycling the
tank and everything (ammonia, nitrite) read zero and the
nitrate is something, usually 10 to 30, you should not
go out to the LFS and purchase fish en-emase. Its best
to decide on what you want and if it is a shoaling or
schooling fish, purchase the number of fish that you want
in that shoal or school - only. Acclimate them and
introduce them into your tank and then wait a couple of
weeks before purchasing additional fish. That gives the
bacterial colonies time to grow to match the new amount
of ammonia produced by the fish, the feeding process,
and any dead/dying plants.

In a tank that looses all of its fish, there is no source
of ammonia and the colonies shrink or die out. The
sudden addition of fish to the tank, causes a sudden
increase of ammonia, far out stripping the ability of any
existing colonies to cope, and the ammonia readings will
soar, followed by the nitrite readings, and then they will
both drop to zero as the ammonia as soon as it is
introduced, goes through the process and becomes nitrate
within minutes.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--