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I'm setting up my 50 gallon tank and i decided to try a trick I read about.

I read that you can use ammonia to kick start a fishless cycle. I went to the store right up the street and bought a bottle of clear ammonia with no perfumes in it.

What I didn't realize is that it has a surfactant in it.

I only added not even half a cap full of it to the tank water. There is no substrate yet, and the water is being filtered through filter pads that have activated carbon in them.

I've only added the one dose to the tank so far, and after doing some research, I learned that it might form an oil layer on the top of the water, or even bubble around the filter pickup tube.

I don't see either of these happening, but I do see what looks to be an increase of surface tension on the water. I can tell that by comparing the way the surface tension breaks in the 50 gallon tank to how it breaks in my 10 gallon. I test it by very lightly placing the tip of my finger against the waters surface.

With the information I've provided, can someone tell me if I should perform a 100% water change and scrub the tank, or would it be safe to stop using this ammonia and either let the cycle start naturally, or continue using this method with the correct kind of ammonia?

All comments are greatly appreciated.

Hi,
Well, It appears that you are not alone! I did a quick search of the Internet and found several folks who did the same thing and were asking the same questions:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/ammonia-surfactant-bad-71725.html

Read the comments and go from there.

Remember the statement..."pure ammonia." It really works, and works well to cycle a tank. It still takes a few weeks to completely cycle the tank so don't try to shortcut the process. Find an article specific for that process and follow it to the letter. Ammonia is the byproduct of the decaying process from waste food, and fish waste. You are, in effect, adding just enough ammonia to start and support the nitrification process. (ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate) if you use too little ammonia, and then fully stock the tank with fish once the tank is cycled, then, chances are you will have a "mini cycle" occur while the newly formed bacteria colonies, grow (expand) to handle the increased amount of ammonia all the fishes and waste food yield.
Use the recommended amount for the capacity of your tank.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Well, thank you for that but that doesn't answer my question.

I had already known when I asked my question that the ammonia I bought was bad to use.

I need to know if the very small dose I added to the water is enough to constitute draining the tank and washing it a few times. Or if I can leave it alone and either let it cycle naturally or get the right ammonia.

I bought a black moor goldfish today and acclimated him to the tank. So far he's doing well. The small amount of surfactant in the water doesn't seem to be having any affect on him. Then again goldfish are very hardy so it may not show with him.

I'm going to leave him in the tank for a week and see how he does. If he survives I'll return him to the pet store and get a less hardy fish and try him out and see how he does. If he survives in the tank for a week I'll repeat the process one more time.

If the most delicate fish survives in the tank for a week, I'm going to deem the tank safe to start setting up to cycle and then stock.

If any of the fish don't survive after receiving proper care, I will do a complete water change and scrub the tank thoroughly and repeat the test again.

Hummm,
As I recall in reading that entire article before I sent it to you, it did specifically address your question. But then it was nearly 2AM, so I may be mistaken.

If I'm reading your information correctly, you are just starting to cycle a 50 gallon aquarium. You have not even added a full cup of ammonia to the water, and you have already purchased a fish????

You need to go back and rethink this whole thing. Reread the Nitrogen Cycle in the FAQ section of this forum. You need a test kit, or you need to make at least once a day trips to the pet store for them to test your water for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. It takes 4-6 weeks to cycle a tank. Especially one that size. The gravel should be in the tank ( I believe you said it was) and the filter should be up and running 24/7 (I think you indicated in your "Bio Wheel" question that it was).

When you cycle a tank with fish, or add fish to a cycling tank, you are torturing them. The ammonia will burn and nitrite will burn their gills, perhaps scaring them to the point where they can barely "breath."(extract oxygen from the water) When a baby has not has its diaper changed in a while, it's bottom becomes reddened and burned. It is the urea and ammonia that causes the redness and soreness. It is a chemical burn. You subject the fish to the same conditions by cycling a tank with fish.

Read the information on cycling a tank with ammonia only, and use the correct amount of ammmonia. I assume, since your discovery, that you have gone to one of the stores mentioned in the article I included in my last post, and purchased the "Pure" ammonia. Above all, slow down. Stop rushing things. It takes 4-6 weeks to cycle a tank. You will know it is fully cycled when you can add a cup of ammonia to the water and then test it a little later and get NO ammonia and NO nitrite readings. That means that the bacterial colonies are large enough and healthy enough to quickly change the ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, generally in less than an hour. Only then, when you can test the water after adding the ammonia and get zero readings for ammonia and nitrite, can you add fish.

I'd take the fish back, and start cycling the tank with the pure ammonia, like it says in the directions.

Frank

Oh, just in case... That is a 50G "Show" or "Tall" tank,
you will probably have to purchase an additional piece of tubing for the intake of that filter so you are pulling water from down toward the bottom of the tank up into the filter.

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

This Fish wont be staying for long. It isn't meant to start a nitrogen cycle. It's only an experiment to see what kind of effects the surfactant will have, if any. It's such a small amount being diluted by 50 gallons of water. The filter may have already removed it anyway.

Trust me, I fully understand the nitrogen cycle and the effects ammonia and nitrite have on fish. I am still a beginner but I have done the research. I only lack experience.

I've researched the signs of stress very thoroughly for the particular fish I purchased, and as soon as it displays any of them, I will remove him from the tank immediately. I would rather not have any fish killed by what I'm testing right now.

I will maintain the tank normally with water changes and testing during my observations, and I will take proper care of the fish.

To prove to you that I know what I'm doing when caring for this goldfish I know that black moor goldfish prefer Ph to be between 6.8 and 7.5, temperatures between 65 and 75 degrees F. Goldfish do not have a stomache so they must eat continually throughout the day. They can't handle meaty foods like beef heart or worms very well, and I'm feeding him Marineland color enhancing fish flakes in quantities that he can only eat in about 2 minutes 4 times each day. Black moor goldfish have poor eyesight, so the best tank mates for them are other fish with poor sight like telescope goldfish or panda moor goldfish. The poor sight in these species helps to balance competition for food.

He is not displaying any signs of stress; no redness, no torn fins, his fins aren't clamped to his body, no spots, he has both eyes, his eyes are clear, his body is very shiny, he isn't staying at the top of the tang gulping for air, nor is he laying on the bottom, he isn't swimming erratically or on his side, he isn't glancing or flashing and he is active and alert.

My dad is going to go to Ace Hardware for me today to buy me a bottle of pure ammonia. I will not be adding it to the tank while it still has this goldfish in it. I'm actually becoming pretty fond of him and I don't want him to die. I would keep him if I thought he could survive with the rest of the fish I intend to keep in this tank.

I'm sorry for being rude to you, you've been a tremendous help to me ever since I've begun my hobby with aquariums, and I really can't describe how much I appreciate that help, but I don't think you're seeing the point I'm trying to make.

When you posted the link to the forum it did indeed have the answer I'm seeking. I didn't read all the way down because it was nothing but redundant answers for the first 6 or 7 posts and I gave up on it. That was my own fault and I apologize for it. My ammonia does foam up when shaken, but the active carbon filter pad I'm using may have removed the small amount of surfactant already.

This is nothing more than a week long observation to see if it will be necessary to drain the tank and scrub it a few times and then refill it. You're probably thinking it's no big deal to perform a water change but for me it is. A car accident left me with torn rotator cuffs in my shoulders. A hose wont reach my room from a spigot outside, so that leaves me with having to fill and lift a 5 gallon bucket 10 times to fill my tank. It's very difficult and very painful for me.

On a more pleasant note, thank you for the advice about the filter pickup. I didn't think it was quite doing its job. I'll get on Penguine's home site and see about ordering the extension I need.

On another side note, I am not intentionally trying to torture this fish. I had gotten myself mixed up when I was buying the ammonia thinking that the surfactant was harmless. After adding the dose of it to the aquarium, I was doing further research on it when I came upon the information again stating that the surfactants are indeed bad.