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Now I know not to post naughty pictures here

Darn, I was hoping you wouldn't notice that

luv, you did an awesome job getting this together. I admire your talents.

Your tank looks great in this spot, like it was made for it .

Can you see why you needed the 30" light rather than the 24" one (even if it has the same bulb)?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey, luv

Is this the effect you wanted with the links? Link?

If so you you do the following, but with square brackets (these [ ]) not the curly ones.

{link= Text you want to display} Hyperlink {/link}

Also, imho its easier to navigate what you are linking to if you link to one picture specifically and not to a group.

chaos


__________________________________
- - - Humorous Bit of Wisdom - - -

Yes it all makes sense now, at first I thought you were loco, or your brains had froze, now I realize why the longer fixture. It was neat getting it all together and the light was shocking at first, made the tank seem really green, but some of my crypts are turning reddish, I think they were supposed to. The fish are getting used to it to.

I just did a water change and am letting the tank sit in darkness while the gunk settles, no need to ruin my GW free streak!

I will be testing as soon as the tank is clear, the pH before WC was between 7 and 7.5, still rather high I think, not enough CO2, the KH was also still high, between 80 and 120 ppm. I need to get a more accurate test for that soon. The GH was still between 150 and 300 ppm, I will not be using the peat for much longer in the buckets, I will be switching to just peat in the filter and blackwater extract from Kents, it has the trace minerals, iron and will help with that hardness, I'm not using any other pH adjusting buffers anymore either, except the CO2 and what little the peat does, which isn't a lot. The switch is because the peat needs to sit in the bucket for much longer than it is able with a weekly water change, the blackwater extract should be much easier to use, though my brother is finding it isn't softening the water as much as we'd like. Where do I find those softwater pillows? They may be what I need.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Chaos, for the before and after pictures I wanted them side by side and I figured the hardware pics could also be seen together, I didn't realize it would also link the whole album! I haven't played around with the photobucket site too much, I just upload my photos and then link them in. I will go back to the regular links I think, it was a neat thing to try though, the bucket stamp thing is kinda cool.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

The CO2 bubbles are still getting stuck near the top of the ladder. Is this a problem at all? Anyone have an answer as to what's happening and if/how should I fix it?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

The CO2 bubbles are still getting stuck near the top of the ladder.

The fact that the bubble made it thru the ladder to the top means it got smaller and has been diffused into the water. Make sure there isn't any obstruction in the ladder like a piece of plant leaf, or dirt, etc. that would be enough to stop the bubbles from moving smoothly. Sometimes playing around with the ladder alittle by moving it slightly helps. It does take about 2 weeks from what I remember to have the ladder "greased" so the bubbles run thru it smoothly.


My Scapes

Since they are getting smaller and slowing down then getting stuck near the top I will not worry about it, hopefully it will clear itself up if what you said is true, I haven't had any escape the ladder except the first one, I didn't have the tube lined up quite right.
They are so hypnotic, make me forget abaout everything, even this little critter yelling 'Mommy!" at me.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Tetra,

Do you know how the ladder gets 'greased'? I cant think of any reason that should happen. I assume your right but have no idea why.

Chaos

__________________________________
- - - Humorous Bit of Wisdom - - -

The bubbles are moving steadily again, I think they pick up any little bubbles that are there after the ladder is installed and then the ladder can be said to be greased, I don't think it's literally greased but the bubbles must make a path somehow to travel smoothly. It did have little bubbles on it when I first put it in and they are now all gone.

I will be picking up a second canister for the tank to make changing them easier, and after printing and reading that CO2 article from John Levasseur (See CO2 Recipe) I will be trying to find some vintners or brewers yeast, it prolongs the CO2 reaction and produces CO2 for a bit longer. I also now know what I did wrong when activating the yeast, the article goes into that in great depth, Chaos if you haven't checked it out, do so, I am talking about the first reply, follow that link.

My CO2 system also needs a check valve to prevent water being drawn in to the canister, can I use the ones that came with my air pump? Or would they break with the acidic conditions? They are a blue stone type I think, not really sure what they are made of, but my pump came with two, one for each air line (it is a double, I got it for the undergravel filter that I pulled out awhile ago).

So far everything is going nicely, I will be doing another water change, following the medicine directions, the spots seem to be clearing up but one of my otos has clamped fins, I think it's time to clean the filter and run the carbon. I will post the test readings then. Both before and after if I remember.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

I think you can try this check valve, even if it should break down it will take a while and that should give you enough time to get one that is made for CO2 (I am not an expert on that stuff).

About the Oto and medicine: I must have missed this all (or I don't remember). What medicine (I guess for Ich), for how long, what dosage? Thanks for the info

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ah log maintenance, I should have put this in this log, I mentioned it in Chaos' log. Two of my tiger barbs (the new ones, I've had them about a month, maybe more) had 1 spot each, and the danios also looked they each had a spot or two, I suspected ich and rather than letting it spread to the other fish and treating it for weeks I decided to be aggressive and treat now. I used Jungle Labs Ich Guard Liquid and tried to raise the temp. This corresponded with our recent temperature change outside, it dropped to -29 C and the house had a hard time keeping up, the heaters in the tank also seemed to have a hard time with it. Then I installed the new light and had the heater disconnected for a while. The ich med says there is no need to rise the temp, so I didn't bring it all the way up to 80 F as is usually recommended but near the top of the ranger the fish are usually in. I've dosed twice, 1 tsp for every 10 gallons water with the 25% water change 24 hrs after the initial dose and each sequential dosing, it does not say how many times it can be repeated though, and I am approaching the time for a second water change. One of the spots is totally gone, the other is disappearing, I wanted to do one more dose to get any parasites that may be in the water. I am not sure what is causing the otos distress, but it could be the meds in the water, so I will be turning my attention to tank maintenance, a 30-40% water change, then filter cleaning and activated charcoal for two weeks. I have been feeding lightly as well, I usually try to underfeed as opposed to overfeeding.

The 10 gallon tank has been treated for fungus as well, I have lost 2 panda cories since treating the betta for tail and fin rot, one I found covered in cottony white fungus and decided to treat the tank and get as much as I could. That tank will be due for a WC tomorrow, I'll be doing a 50% like I did before treating the tank, then running AC in the filter to remove the fungus med, which was the Jungle Labs Fungus Eliminator. It is acrystal form and says to treat every four days after a 25% WC. In this tank I have water sprite that is showing signs of deficiency even after adding iron and potassium, the water sprite is coming out of both tanks. I have only WS floaters left in the 25.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

If it was Ich then the danger is not over just because you see less (even no) spots anymore. The medicine attachs the free floating stage which comes after a dot falls off and then multiplies. If your fish are strong then they may be able to fend off a new attack (attachment), so keep an eye open.

I don't evny your for your temperature problems. Just the opposite of what Robyn (TankWatcher) is fighting, she has about 30C in the tank because they have a major heat wave (Australia).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm hoping cleaning up the water will help them resist, the med was supposed to clear it out, but the parasite is resistant to meds while attached to the fish, since it fell off I'm hoping the med in the water killed it before it had a chance to reproduce. The otos are looking perkier anyway.

I will wait to test the water, all these water changes so close together, the water needs a chance to stabilize. The bubbles are moving pretty good, but they are not going 1 bps. Do I need that? Is there any way to speed up the reaction? The next batch will be better I'm sure, I'm looking for better yeast, either brewer's or vintner's, they are supposed to be the best as they tolerate the alcohol build-up better and produce CO2 for a longer time.

Tonight I will have new pictures as the previous water change I moved some plants around. I took out the water sprite, the meds seemed to be killing it. And moved the hygro into it's place, then I rearranged my crypts a bit more. I like the new look, but I can hardly wait to get new plants.

I was tempted this weekend to get a male krib. I found a beauty of a boy at Petcetera while I was shopping for a check valve. He had two eye spots on his tail and great colour. But I decided not to get him as I am just clearing the meds out of the tank, I'd rather get fish when the tank is all clean and running smoothly.

The weather is really weird, last week -29C and no snow this week -1C and lots of snow, which is melting pretty fast! I have a new thermostat to install in the house, a digital, I am hoping this will keep the temp steadier. Now I can't tell what the actual temp is in the house, only what it is supposed to be. I'm glad the weather is warmer, I may get it installed this weekend. The next thing for the tank will be a submersible heater, I'm looking for suggestions for a good one. I've heard the stealth mentioned, recommendations?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Stealth is good, I by now prefer it over the regular Visi-Therm and the Ebo Jaeger heaters. They are fully submersible and blend into the background.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Luv,

I had read that article before I began. I was most concerned with how to build the thing and not too woried about how to get yeast started (again i just used baking expirence for that). Other than boiling all the water first and kind of sanitizing the equipment I didnt do anything special. Was there something specific you wanted to point out?

Glad thing seem to be going better now with the fish health. Though I must say tetra's comments on the free swimmers make me anxious about the fact that the spot disappeared. I suppose that was hatching and they might be trying to reattach soon. Ill probably get some meds tomarrow after I do some reading.

Chaos

__________________________________
- - - Humorous Bit of Wisdom - - -

Chaos, Nah, just thought if you hadn't seen it to mention it so you could check it out. I found the different yeasts interesting, and it now seems so easy to build one, before I figured anything I tried would come out really bad and maybe blow my house up. Also I had no idea that more yeast is not a better thing, I was beginning to think I should add more yeast. I'll leave it for now. Next time I'll see what I can do for getting my yeast to perform better, I think it was that I didn't activate it and my water was less than 90 F, I thought that was too warm and was trying to get it to 40 F, now I realize it was 40 C or 90 F. The next batch will be better.

The tank is in lights out so no pics tonight. Soon though I promise.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Time for new pictures, it has been a week since the CO2 went in. Today I pushed the ladder farther down the back wall of the tank, the bubbles reaching the top are now much smaller than they were before, so I'm going to guess that more CO2 is being dissolved into the water by the time they get to the top. Testing my KH and PH right away, as soon as I get these pictures linked.

Whole tank
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/wholetankshot1weekafterCO2.jpg

Left side
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/Leftside1wkafterCO2.jpg

Center
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/Center1weekafterCO2.jpg

Right side
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/Rightside1weekafterCO2.jpg

The plants look good to me, I had some holes, I have dosed iron and potassium, should I be adding anything else for that specifically? I have a trace formula that I can add as well as a macro formula. Since I just did a water change I will test nitrate and phosphorus as well.

I should note that one of the barbs is looking pretty bad, skinny and breathing fast, he was trying to eat and kept spitting it out, I suspect TB but there is no hope if that is correct. I am hesitating to write him off though, I have lost fish to it in the past, the healthy fish never seemed to get it, so I am hopeful the others are healthy enough to resist.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Test results
pH 7.2
KH 120 ppm
GH between 150 and 300 ppm
NO3 10 mg/L
PO4 0.5 mg/L
Temp 28 C / 82 F
CO2 12.682

Today I noticed that tests left to sit now become more acidic, previously they would become more basic as time went by, not sure what this means but it is something I have noticed. I decided to keep a paper record of tests done in a binder that also holds the EI article from Tom Barr and the DIY CO2 article from John Levasseur, I will be adding other articles of interest as I find them.


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Question: What is 10 mg/L in ppm? And the same for the PO4, what is 0.5 mg/L in ppm? Does it convert straight across?
According to what I just read at the Aquabotanic site in the Substrate and Fertilization Introduction article in the library, my PO4 is in the right range, the NO3 may be at the low end of the scale though. Should I dose N,P,K or leave the fish to do their work? I do not have separate N as yet.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Hi,
To convert degrees to ppm, multiply the degrees by 17.9.
To go the other way, divide ppm by 17.9.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank, does that apply for KH and GH as well or is there a different calculation for them?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

does that apply for KH and GH as well or is there a different calculation for them?

That does, as far as tanks go, only apply to GH and KH. It is a conversion into German Degrees that you will need in order to read most of the charts that list how much CO2 your water is currently holding. So, for example, approx. 36ppm of KH is equal to 2dH. Look at This Page for a sample chart.

What is 10 mg/L in ppm?

That one has been made easy for us as the term ppm and the term mg/l mean pretty much the same. There are small differences because we are not looking at pure water, but they are so minor that we, for our tank purposes, can neglect them. So, for example, 10 mg/l are the same than 10ppm.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So if my calculations are correct, my tank is getting 12.682 ppm CO2, the KH is 6.7 dKH, and the pH is 7.2, is it enough CO2? Are the readings accurate? I haven't added any acid buffer in over a week, the tank has had 3 water changes since the last time I tried to adjust the pH. I do still have the peat in the filter and for the time being in the water buckets, this is due to the very high GH and KH from the tap, it is at the top of the scale, lowering it even a little bit seems to be helping.

I discovered that I have lost an oto, and one of the danios has a bent back. Should I start culling sick fish now or wait it out and do another water change? Realize that the buckets have not had a chance to steep and the water going in will be different than the water already in the tank. This may actually make things worse rather than better. So far it is one barb and one danio that are showing symptoms, in the past I have waited as long as possible until I could no longer stand to see the fish suffering, laboring with each breath and so skinny as to be almost see-through. I feel like I should instead act quickly to protect the other fish, they seemed to have been dining on the oto a bit, though I do not know why it died, it may have been stress from the medication and the temp being up and down, then up again.

Any advice or comments on my recent tank update are welcome!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

See my thread [link=Here]http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/thread.aspx?id=27221&rp=2 [/link] for info on the recent loss and my suspicions.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

Sorry to hear about all these fish problems, I don't really know what caused it or how to help you on this one. The only thing I can say is that:

a) A loss of maybe even 50% of an initial Oto population is happening rather often (without illness)
b) I has a danio with a bent back (for good) and he lived for quite a while, he actually was pretty bossy.

About your tank: right now, with all this medicine, filter changes, and what not going on, it may be better to wait to actually perform major changes (or additions). A few things I would say that can be done at some point:

1) Given that your lovely castle is about to dissapear behind the plants anyway, why not remove it and place some taller stems in that area, like Rotala Indica, Narrow Leaf Ludwigia, or even Bacopa.
2) How about adding some branchy driftwood that pokes out? Or maybe two of them, a smaller on the left and a larger one on the right. If you like the idea then go and get some now as you should soak in a bucket for a while (1 to 2 weeks at least).
3) It seems like your Amazon Sword has come a long way since you started this thread. It actually may be too big very soon. Do you have a plan there?
4) I would assume that your filter can be moved left or right, right? If so then why not try to place it somewhere less visible? Or maybe I should be more accurate as the filter is not the problem, but the Ladder (and its position is defined by the filters, right? ).
5) The background - that is algae, right? If it is clean, would this be a plain dark blue background?

Well, enough for now,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think I figured out what happened, the filter got all bunked up, by dying water sprite I think, and the moss that gets sucked up the intake tube. I got it all cleared out and the tank cleaned up a bit more. Only the barb passed away, the danio seems to be fine, his back wasn't permanently bent, it was occasionally bent, so I suspected water quality as the cause.

Hi Ingo, thanks for all your ideas.
Yes the castle is going, I like the idea of rotala indica, I would like some red in the tank, aside from the crypts in behind the driftwood that are turning red.

The amazon sword will be finding a home with my brother in his 55 gallon tank, hopefully it will transition well, he has less light than I used to. I think that may be a good place for a piece of branchy driftwood and maybe some bacopa or the narrow-leaved ludwigia.

Yes I can now move the filter to the left or to the right, the ladder is placed right under the filter to push the bubbles back down as they head for the surface. I am still in a bubble watching mode and may move the filter after the spring re-do of the tank, gravel etc. That's when I will finally cut and add the plastic pieces to the glass top, and by then I should have the new glass cut, the jagged ones have to go. They aren't a danger to the fish or myself but they are bothersome as they don't slide at all nicely. I think the filter will move to the left, behind some tall plants, whichever doesn't wind up elsewhere I guess, what would you put there?

Yes the background is a nice beautiful field of green spot algae, left there for my algae eaters to eat, I guess when I finally choose a nice dark blue background I will have to clean the glass eh? I think navy near the gravel, fading to purple and lighter blue near the top, I see sunrise/sunset in the tank, for me it's already there, I don't even see the algae or the horrible plastic background that's there now. Visualization works wonders, algae? what algae?


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

I am glad that it seems like you found the source of your issues, now you can correct it . I hate it when there is a problem (like algae) and you don't know exactly what causes it.

About the future scape: I would first try to get my hands on some hardscape, like driftwood and rocks. Once you have these then you can think about where they would fit in your tank and after that you could identify which plants would look nicely with this hardscape and where they should go. And during the whole time keep us posted so we can mess with your mind .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Mess with my MIND?! Well if you can find it I guess you can mess with it, it seems to have deserted me right now.

I will be on the look out for some nice branchy driftwood, don't expect me to get it from ebay though, I don't want to spend that much on it! As for rocks, I will also be looking for them. I will keep the ladder visible for now so I can keep an eye on the CO2, I need to change the bottle soon.

I have a question about a suitable DIY bottle I am thinking of doing, to make bottle changes easier I have purchased some whiskey spouts, for alchohol bottles, I am thinking I would like to put them in the bottle and have the silicone tube attach to the spout. I bought 3 black plastic ones from Ikea for about $1.50 CDN to try this. Now before I do, has anyone tried this, how did it go? Did it blow the spout out? Would a glass bottle by chance be better for this experiment, I am going to attempt it before hooking the line up to the tank, just so the mess is contained in the kitchen rather than the living room and the tank. Any ideas on making this work?



"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Well I have added the boiling water to the sugar, and activated the yeast, now I am waiting for the bottle to cool before adding the yeast, then I will attach a line to no where first before attaching it to the tank, I have run into a small issue though, the spout is designed to let air escape so the whiskey will pour smoothly, I need to seal this hole for this to work, aquarium silicone is what I need for this. I guess I should have this stuff on hand in case of leaks right? Told you my mind had deserted me! If it works I will post a pic of my wine bottle CO2 canister, if it doesn't work I will report my failure and on Wednesday I will change the mixture in the Hagen canister and look for those nylon bulkhead fittings from that DIY CO2 article, I can't find them in any hobby shops around here.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Luv,
When I was doing diy co2 I had gotton these hose barbs from home depot. I think it was WATTS brand A-85. I drilled a tiny hole in the top of a 1.9 litre juice bottle. The kind with the rigid orange screw top. After I drilled the hole I pushed the hose barb through - Done. No silicone, nothing just filled up the bottle with the cocktail and put the hose on the other end of the hose barb.



My Scapes

Thanks Tetra, I decided to use scotch tape for now to cover the hole, silicone later if it actually works, I'd hate to waste a good whiskey spout! I have added the yeast and am letting it sit, I'll do a test run in a few hours. I'm letting the mixture get started first, this way my CO2 production won't go down. So far the spout has stayed in the bottle, and the valve hasn't been blown out either. I have it open all the way so pressure doesn't build-up too much. I am hoping this will work as it will make changing bottles a snap. Now I will need to buy and consume another 1.5L of wine to get another bottle. Oh the hardships of fish keeping!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Ok there are bubbles happening inside the new canister, but none are making it to the ladder. I have sealed all the joins with pipe tape, and sealed the hole with two layers of it. Both valves are wide open, I don't know what else to do to make it work. How long before I should give up and switch back to the other canister? Any ideas? Anyone?

I bought two plants today, a bacopa and a red and green ludwigia, the ludwigia is by the ladder in it's new spot near the heater, and the bacopa is where the ladder used to be, pictures tonight.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

No pictures, I turned off the light before I remembered I was going to take them. I am pulling the plug on the whiskey spout CO2 canister, there has been no change at all, still no bubbles making it to the bottom of the ladder, there seems to be just enough pressure keeping the water from being siphoned up the tube, but not enough to push the gas down the tube. There has been no CO2 in the tank for 24 hrs and the water was getting a slightly cloudy look to it. It may be that I replaced the sponge and am trying a new peat, or it could be better light and no CO2. Thus I am going back to the original bottle as I can't seem to make this idea work. I was looking forward to my new wine too! So I'll have to make do with this one, where is everyone! I am taliking to myself here and I'm the only one answering me! Cheese anyone?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I did my DIY CO2 like tetratech. I don't know what a whiskey spout is(but I do know what whiskey is ). You may have a bad batch, I got those once in a while. Maybe just try making a new batch of CO2....remember to use warmish water and dechlor.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I switched it out and the CO2 started to move down right away, it wasn't a problem with the batch, when I popped the cork it bubbled like champagne, without the loud POP and fizz! I think it could have been the connections, the tubing was probably way too long and I had 2 valves to hold it all together, so lots of places for leaks, plus my hubby isn't sure that the pipe tape is airtight or water proof!

A whiskey spout is the pouring device inserted into the bottle to make pouring go smoothly. That's the only name I could think of for it. The ikea name is SODA, but I don't read Swedish! Anyway, I guess I will have to do it the traditional way, which means I get to play with power tools, and now have most of a good batch of CO2 mixture going to waste, I wish I could feed it to keep it alive for the next change out. Maybe another experiment coming on! Nah, too tired. So what kind of alcohol is produced in this reaction anyway? Chaos said to toss it down the drain, so I guess it isn't drinkable? How's screech made? Any Newfies here who know?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

If you've seen a mature yeast batch, I'd hope you wouldn't even think of drinking it. Nasty nasty. There's a reason why most people don't brew their own alcohol.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Just so you know I was kidding, my lips still burn from the siphoning I did to get some of the stuff (sugar and yeast) from the bottom of the large bottle into the smaller bottle. Yikes it was only 1 day old! Talk about strong, good thing none of it actually went into my mouth.
I'm not crazy about hard alcohol, it makes me hurt, I do like wine and beer, had some good porter the other day. I have thought about brewing my own beer, and making my own wine, but I have a small house and three inquisitive boys. I wouldn't want to catch them in my liquor brewing closet! Hope they don't get any funny ideas about my CO2 bottle! The rest of the wine bottle full is going down the drain, I don't think it could be kept viable for 14 days and not be at the same strength as the one needing to be replaced.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

This batch is much better than the first one, I must have got the activation right, plus I probably have my yeast stored better than in a paper packet in a cardboard box in a warehouse. It could have been an old box too. My yeast is kept in a tightly closed glass jar in the pantry, away from moisture and light and heat.
The bubbles are really moving, they do not slow and get stuck like the last batch did, they race through the ladder, barely lose any size, I will push the ladder as far down the glass as it will go. What size bubble is the best, these are monsters, do I want them to be smaller? Should I try a valve or just leave it for now?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Now that I have recovered from my bottle madness, everything looks better now. I have a plan for future bottle changes, I'll start the new batch the day before in a different bottle, then when I;m ready to switch, the downtime will be less, just as long as it takes to rinse out the bottle and add the new batch. I have the valves to prevent the tank from draining out while the line is unhooked.

Barbs gone mad! One barb may be preggers! She has a really fat tummy, no pinecone scales though. The males are chasing her all over the tank, it's like a wild fast dance. I am not worried though, by morning if there were any eggs they will be all gone and I won't see a thing. She looks tired though, and there doesn't seem to be anywhere she can hide that they won't find her.

The new plants are looking pretty good, Ingo, you'd be proud, I moved the filter over to the left, the uptake tube is now hidden by the amazon sword, and the bacopa will eventually complete the camoflage. I moved the ladder to the right and it is now hidden partially by the hygo and the new ludwigia. The castle is gone, well actually it is now on display elsewhere in the house, like the skeleton in a bucket I am not allowed to throw out.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Yesterday I took off to visit with my 55 gallon in the city, I call it mine when in fact it belongs my brother and his family. I have recently been given free reign to improve their tank, limited of course by how much we all can afford. He now has a new filter, a Red Sea Turbo CO2 system. We still need some better light and more plants for the tank. I'm thinking the same one I got, only 2 24" size lights, would it be ok to replace them one at a time, with maybe up to a month in between? Neither of us can afford both all at once.

The barbs did their thing while we were all blissfully sleeping and un-aware. Big Momma was much thinner in the morning, wish that worked for me! And the boys all looked pretty satisfied, some feasting for sure went on so I didn't feed them at all yesterday. Lost another oto, they seem fine then I find one dead in the morning. As soon as my metro gets here I will be doing a water change and then dosing the tank. I was hoping for the tank to level out a bit in between meds, and it has to some extent, only one danio is hiding by the heater, he does move to the other end of the tank now and then, but he isn't eating either. I wake up each morning expecting to find him dead, but he's hanging in there.

I will post tank readings of before and after the water change. I will be ordering from Greg Watson.com soon, the prices were great, and then I will need help to figure out how much I need to dose for my tank. Hopefully the silence will end and I will no-longer be typing to myself. Some advice on what to order would be appreciated as well.

Need to edit the tank residents now
Plants:
1 red/green ludwigia (name forgotten)
1 bunch bacopa carolinas (I think)
1 amazon sword
2 java fern windelov
3 java fern
2 anubias nana
hygro polysperma (10?)
java moss
3 species of crypts, green wendtii, tall red variety, narrow, reddish really crinkly type
6 e. tenellus

Fish:
5 danios
5 tiger barbs
2 otos
1 SAE
1 krib

Hardscape:
1 river rock cave
1 driftwood
assorted small rocks

Light:
30" coralife aqualight 65 watts

Nutrafin Plant Grow CO2 system

The rest is still the same


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Otos dropping like flies! I have only one oto left in my 25 gallon tank! I am thinking about tearing the tank down and re-doing it earlier than I had planned, like this weekend! There is obviously something wrong in that tank and I don't know what it is, I have done everything I can think of. The danios are looking a bit peaked, but the rest of the fish seem fine. I have mela-fix and pima-fix in the tank now, so the water is a bit cloudy, I am hoping to clear out whatever it is that's killing my fish. If it was just the otos, I would chalk it up to their sensitivity, but it's also the hardy barbs and danios that have been affected. I'm sure it's not TB, but rather a fungal/ bacterial/ protozoan infection, so I'm treating for them all as soon as the metro gets here.

On the plant front, the plants are growing great, the hygro has overcome the CO2 ladder, the bacopa is showing new growth already, and the ludwigia is starting to take off as well. My sword is putting out a baby, I think it has gotten as big as it will get. The crypts are doing great, I didn't see a lot of melting when I put in the new light. No pearling as yet, but I have a low bubble rate, it is not adjustable either. But if the plants are growing then it must be enough.

New fish numbers
5 tiger barbs
4 danios
1 oto
1 krib
1 SAE


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Hey,

I havent kept up with this tank too much recently (trying to deal with mine) but I wanted to say that ottos are supposed to be sensitive to everything. This is why I went into shrimps because I was worried that the ottos would all drop dead if I had any algae.

A tear down might be appropriate, but not necessarily if the ottos are the only thing pointing you towards that action.

Chaos

__________________________________
- - - Humorous Bit of Wisdom - - -

Hi Chaos, thanks for stopping in, I lost 5 fish in just over a week in that tank, and 2 in the other tank just prior to that. The otos were hit the hardest, but the last one seems fine, the others did to, then I'd find them dead in the morning. I'm going finish with the meds, 1 week for the mela-fix and pima-fix, 14 days with the metro, and get a new heater for each tank this weekend. In the 10 I checked the temp last night before bed, it was 80F, this moring it was 76F. The other tank does a bit better, it doesn't drop as much, but the heater keeps going over the target temp, it'll creep up from 80 to 84F. So new heaters, I'm hoping for stealth, but I will get the best I can. I am also going to be looking for a CO2 indicator, NOT a controller. So that I will know how much CO2 is in the tank without having to do the calculation.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I guess it's time for my 3rd week update. The tank seems to be having problems, though all readings have normal. In the pictures the tank is cloudy due to the pima-fix. I am dosing mela-fix, pima-fix and metro to get rid of any nasties in the tank. Over the last week I have lost 5 fish, 1 barb, 1 danio and 3 otos. With the light upgrade I have also noticed more algae, a red type, green spot, and some diatoms, not sure where they came from.
On with the show, here are some pics.
Whole Tank
Bacopa, SAE and Krib
New Ludwigia
Last Surviving Oto
The Moss covered driftwood
Barbs at it again
See my red nose


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I was hoping fish would stop dying in my tank, but I have a danio in isolation, he has a shrunken body, no lesions and no curvature of the spine. It may well be woms, though I cannot see any. I am almost at the end of my rope with this, 6 fish dead in one tank in about a weeks time, this is crazy and it's making me want to so I did! I will continue to dose the mela-fix and pima-fix and the metro, I am looking for a fish wormer as well, if it's worms it's gotta go.

How did the worms get in? I have a couple of ideas
1. Other fish brought them in and they have lain in wait for the perfect moment to strike.
2. The cat likes to drink from the water change bucket on water change day and is carrying worms inside as a nice little gift for the fishes.
3. The dog has worms and likes to drink from the water buckets, especially when she hears me say "I need to do a water change today".
4. It's a conspiracy, they're out to get me!
5. Alien invaders!

Ok, now that that's out, any other ideas?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Luv,
Sounds like a mess .
What are your current parameters?

Light (wpg and hours)
Filter (type media)
Fert Dosing
Water Change Routine



My Scapes

Luv,

Your plants are really looking nice. Full, Lush, I like it!

I am not a fan of the colored water though... Sorry!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Tetra, here's my params
Light 65 watts
Filter Aqua-clear 50, foam sponge, peat, bio-max
pH 7.4
KH 180 ppm
Ferts, normally just potassium,iron,traces, CO2,
last reading showed NO3 at 10 ppm, PO4 at 0.5 ppm, so I dosed NPK, one cap per 10 gallons provides 3.5 mg/L NO3, and 0.5 mg/L PO4 and 2.5 mg/L potassium.
Water changes are done every 7-10 days.

Wings, that colour is after adding a half dose of blackwater expert, plus I have some meds in there that have been messing with my water colour a bit. Usually with just the peat alone the water is not so colourful. Though the gravel adds enough colour all on it's own. The tank water actually seemed very green after the new light went on, I haven't got used to it being so bright yet.

Just noticed another danio seems to be going downhill, they seem fine and then bam, they get skinny all of a sudden. I'm not sure what to do, I am totally lost here!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I really don't know what to tell you. Do you have city or well water? If it is city then maybe they have messed with something?

Your CO2 only comes out to be about 12ppm. Not really all that high. Are you using one of thoughs hagen kits? Would a Coralife limewood airstone be more efficent?



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi Wings, thanks for the comment earlier, the plants seem to be doing fine. My water is city water, maybe they have messed with it somehow, I looked into how it's filtered, what a nightmare! It's put through lime, chlorine, UV, ammonia, you name it they use it. The end result is water that may be good for hard water, high pH cichlids. I choose the soft-water, low pH fish to have though.
I am using the Hagen CO2 system, it worked great when it was under the filter, since moving stuff I have noticed it isn't as great, then fish started dying and I don't want to stress them more than they have been. Next water change the ladder and the filter will be reunited. I really won't be looking for a new diffuser until I'm ready to set up CO2 on the 10, which will be soon I think, it's also having algae problems. When it rains it pours.

A higher plant load will help both tanks with algae, I'm hoping to get more plants this weekend. New heaters for both tanks as well.

On the colour front, I also have that blue background which with the peat turns kind of green, I will be looking for a black background as well. So much to do so little time. Plus there was a good covering of green-spot algae on the glass, I have now removed it and the lights are out. I don't want green water and will do0 almost anything to avaoid it!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Luv,

Are you sure there's nothing toxic going in. With those fish dropping like that something seems to be poisonous. Somethings to check:

What kind of peat are you adding, is it 100% peat moss?

I don't thing think with 2.6wpg on a 25g you have alot of plant suck up. Also you have mostly lowlight plants that grow slowly.

What is your source of NKP?

How much water do you change every 7 to 10?



My Scapes

I change about 25% water at each change. I'll pull the peat from the filter, I ran out of the fluval stuff and used a peat pellet from a greenhouse kit, it didn't list anything harmful but I guess you never know. With the blackwater extract I was thinking about doing just that anyway. The NPK is the Hagen Nutrafin Plant Grow NPK. What I listed is what's on the bottle, I dosed for 20 gallons, I figure about 5 gallons lost to gravel, rocks and driftwood. I will do a water change even though I'm still in the middle of the med dosing. It says to dose for 7 days then do a 25% water change. I think I'll do a water change and then dose to bring the med back up.

There, pulled the peat from the filter while I was thinking about it. Now we'll see, a water change should reset everything.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Sounds like you are only doing the doseing end of the Tom Barr's El. You might want to see if you can up your CO2 (maybe add on a DIY bottle to up it?). If you are adding ferts all the time then you need to be doing bigger water changes. 50%'s

Umm yeah... I probably messed that all up.... some where... something to do with slow growing plants...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I don't dose every day, when I tried that things went to h*ll in a hand basket fast, so I just started only dosing after waterchanges, usually NO3 is 10ppm after a water change, so I don't always add the NPK, it's usually the potassium and iron that the tank is short of. The bulk of my plants are low-light or slow growers, the two I just added won't be taking in much until their roots are established, thus potassium is needed rather than nitrate. The CO2, I tried to do a DIY but failed miserably, it just didn't work, I think I know why and what to do to fix it, I'm just gun-shy now. I am starting a new batch as the current batch is part of the batch that I made in a 1 1/2L bottle, I don't know how effective it will be, it has started to slow down. I have the sugar water made I just have to activate the yeast, then let it sit over night until the bubbles get going. That's about the only thing useful that came out of that failed experiment, I just need to get a new batch going in a different container to reduce down time. I could also look at the other kit that my brother got at Big Al's, it does up to 40 gallons, it is the Red Sea Turbo CO2 kit, it is similar to the Hagen one except the canister is bigger and it uses a pump as a diffuser. If I go that way I could move the Hagen kit to the 10. I really only want a bigger canister though, and the CO2 ladder to be back under the filter return.
Where's Ingo? I need to yell at him he was the one who said I should move it so it's not so obvious. There, yelling all done.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I have been wondering the same thing all week? Has anyone heard from him? Hope things are ok!

I thought you were doing the more often method. Sorry!

DIY CO2 = not as hard as you are making it to be!

2L bottle
Table Spoon of Yeast
2 Cups of sugar

Put it all together and make CO2!
I was running 2 bottles to the same ladder to get more out of it. All you need is a T to connect them. If you run more than one to the same thing then you can change one of them out every two weeks. This will help make it more stable.






55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings did you read about the failed experiment, scroll up and maybe back a page, I also had a thread going in Technical Tinkering. Oh man, that's what happens when you try to cheat though, I was tring to make it real simple, and it didn't work. If you want to have a laugh, maybe a cry check it out. I'm just trying to put it behind me and forget it ever happened.

The instructions for my kit recommend using two bottles for over 20 gallons, so I may look into that as well.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

I'm using the Red Sea CO2 kit with my own mix in my 23g. So far it's been working pretty well. I like that the bottle is sturdy and can be hung on the back of the tank. The powered diffuser works well too. Still experimenting to get the ideal mix though (on my 3rd one right now) - so far I only get about 20ppm or less for about 2 weeks. You can read more about it here if you're interested.

Sorry to hear about your fish dilemma. Can't really hep unfortunately.

Been wondering the same thing about LF. He's probably on holiday. The other Big Apple guys (tetra & nowhere) probably know more.

Cheers!

-P

The other Big Apple guys (tetra & nowhere) probably know more.

All I know is that LF is fighting a mutant form of Protist in the south. The protist have mutated to a resistant form due to the less than pristine Jersey water supply. I'm trying to get a few days off from work to join the battle. Wish us luck.

My Scapes

Sounds like another civil war (or Star-grass War?) is brewing over there.
Don't forget your light sabre.

Now back to the original programming....

-P

(Little do they know that I, the Protist Collaborator, introduced that mutant form they are rushing to fight... MUAHAHAHAHAHA! )

But seriously, maybe Jersey water is bad for fish tanks and for supporting life in general, but it's the best tasting water in the country... most of the time...

---

Back in the saddle!

So what is really going on with LF??

Bad algae issues = no posting?

I am lost!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

My brother has the red sea CO2 and I like it fine, the Hagen is also sturdy and hangs easily on the tank, I could get a second bottle for it or maybe get the turbo bottle and see how it goes with a bigger bottle.

Fish still dropping, lost that danio yesterday and another looks bad today, the last oto is clinging to the front glass as if to say "Get me outta here!"

Because of the meds in the water I'm not sure if I should do a water change or not. I could always estimate what I took out and re-dose accordingly, then I would feel better about the water in the tank. I took the peat out and the fish all look fine except the one danio. But each time one passes, another falls prey to whatever is lurking in the tank.


Nowhereman6 that's just not nice, you call them back right now!

Wherever LF is let's hope he is well, I still have a few things to say to him about messing with my mind though, and my tank! Although if he really wanted to come mess with my tank I wouldn't mind, I see what he can do with Jersey water, I wonder what he could do with Edmonton water?!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Time for a little update. I have discovered the probable source of my fish woes. My brother, in perfectly innocent intent, gave me some frozen bloodworms, which I began feeding to my fish intermittantly. No fish were dying before they started getting that as a food source. I was at Big Al's today and I was told the bloodworms can give fish worms and other parasites. I bought some frozen mysis cubes and have tossed the last 2 cubes of bloodworms. I will continue to dose the tank for a full run, and I will do water changes as necessary to keep good water conditions. I picked up some Prazipro for roundworms and will do a run of it as well.
While I was there I also got two stealth heaters, one for each tank and looked at the Red Sea Turbo CO2 kit. I decided to stick with the Hagen for now and give it a good try before changing to something else. I went to Superpet Clearance and bought a second Hagen kit for the 10 gallon. It is waiting for 24 hrs for bubbles to appear. I switched out the batch in the other canister and now have a much better bubble rate. I think with the smaller canister I may have to do weekly changes to keep the CO2 level steady, after only one week the bubbles had slowed down tremendously. It's not like the yeast or sugar I'm using are really expensive or anything. Making it up in a 1L bottle and letting it sit 24 hrs really helps as well.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Were the kept frozen at all times? I've feed my fish frozen bloodworms for years without any problems.





My Scapes

I couldn't say as it was my brother's before he gave them to me. I kept it frozen all the time.
The fish are responding to treatment, the otos have unclamped their fins in the 10g, the oto in the 25 is still alive as is the danio in the 25 I thought was next to go. Treatment will continue for a full week of the mela-fix and pima-fix, which is almost done and possibly 2 weeks of the metro. With water changes when needed of course.

I bought some more new plants, a small bunch of lilaeopsis brassilensisrcuta (SP) 2 small bunches of ludwigia arcuata and one bunch of alternanthera reineckii 'rosafolia'. I planted all plants in both tanks just to see if they would grow in both tanks. I now have CO2 in both tanks and the growth in the 25 is really good. I am having some problems with algae in both tanks and am trying to figure out what needs to be done about that. Obviously I am lacking in some nutrients, bensaf has made that very clear, now to figure out which ones.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Where's Ingo? I need to yell at him he was the one who said I should move it so it's not so obvious. There, yelling all done.

Ok, let me have it

Yes, I am guilty. But not because I said you should move it. I am guilty because I neglected to consider your water current. Sorry about that .

Glad to hear that you seem to have found your fish problem source. I am hearing reports that are mixed when it comes to frozen foods, some say that they are safe while others say that simply freezing it will not kill the parasites. I don't feed any frozen (or live) food, only freeze dried.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Obviously I am lacking in some nutrients, bensaf has made that very clear, now to figure out which ones.

Well what's the algae and what are you adding now ?

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I have a water change due today in the 25, I will test all values before the change and again after and post them here, there is only greenspot in that tank, I had a good look and that's all I can find. The new plants are growing well and are probably competing with the algae for nutrients now and the algae seems to be losing! Yay! The big algae problems are in the 10, I have BGA,BBA,hair/staghorn and greenspot all in that one little tank. I have added some new plants to that tank and will take readings of it and post them.

My dosing schedule is leave the nitrates alone as long as they don't fall below 10. Add iron and potassium every few days or when the plants look like they need it, holes form, leaves yellow etc. I only just started testing for P, now according to my test kit I am in the right range, I have 0.5 mg/L or ppm, according to what I read in the EI article and here, that number is way too low. I add trace with each water change as well. For ferts I use Nutrafin Plant Grow NPK and Plant Grow iron enriched trace elements, I use Seachem Flourish Iron and Potassium, and I have started using Blackwater extract and Marc Weiss Ketapang Vital, which softens water, may lower pH (not yet KH still too high) and adds trace elements, vitamins and hormones to the water. I usually have peat in the filter but haven't had it while dosing the tank and trying out the new blackwater stuff. I have the Hagen Plant Grow CO2 system set-up and running, the bubble rate is pretty low though. I was able to get some Brewer's yeast for free from a wine/beer making supply store and will make the next batches with the new yeast, hopefully the bubble rate will increase.

I picked up some new driftwood to add to the tank, this may help with softening the water and of course it should make my 'scape look better, I will see where the 2 pieces will fit in, I may have to move some plants around though, oh shucks!

PS, once I have the current params, before and after water change, maybe we can figure out what I should be dosing and how much. Here's the info on the Nutrafin products I am currently using.

Plant Gro NPK 0.6-0.3-2.4 5 ml per 10 gallons provides 3.5 mg/L Nitrate, 0.5 mg/L Phosphate and 2.5 mg/L Potassium

Plant Gro Iron enriched 0.15-0-0 5ml per 10 gallons provides 0.3 mg/L iron, Guaranteed analysis nitrogen 0.15%, iron 0.26%, Manganese 0.05%, Zinc 0.003%, Boron 0.0005%, Copper 0.0005%, Molybdate 0.0007%.


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Pre-water change test results
pH 7.8 almost 8
GH 280 ppm
KH 90 ppm
NO3 5-10 ppm
PO4 0.5 ppm
Fe 0.5 ppm
Temp 76F/24.5 C

I tested the change water, the water that has been treated with prime, Ketapang Vital, peat (almost spent), and Kents Blackwater Expert has these readings
pH 6.5-7.0 (wide range test)
GH 160
KH 60

Major difference, I'll be adding the water very slowly I think, and adding some tap water to the bucket to raise those values just a bit. That stuff really works at reducing GH, KH and pH! The peat is coming out of the buckets finally, I have found something that works. I may do small water changes every other day until the tank has reached the values I want. I'm aiming for pH 6.8, the GH and KH that is in the buckets will do for me as well.


"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I decided to test the water going into the tank, it has been treated with prime, Marc Weiss Ketapang, and Blackwater extract, the readings are as follows:

pH 6.8
GH 160
KH 60

The stuff really works, the pH from the tap is 7.8, GH is 300 and KH is 300 ppm.

I did the water change, will test tomorrow when the tank has had a chance to settle. I added the 2 new pieces of driftwood and rearranged the plants a bit. I have left the CO2 ladder where it is for now, the heater is beside it now placed at a 45 degree angle, I am hoping this will help with heat distribution as well as water movement. When the water clears I will take some pics of the new layout, I like it but my 8 yr old son thinks one of the plants needs to be moved, I think it is a bit crowded with crypts, I'd like to take some out and put in some other plants, like the small-leaved ludwigia, or another red-leaf plant like the reineckii or the red ludwigia I have now, maybe a small-leaved or dwarf variety. I did take out the big sword as bensaf put it, it really took off all of a sudden, the one in the 10g will be going soon too. I may have a bit of an algal bloom due to it's removal, so the sooner I get a new plant to replace it the better.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

My dosing schedule is leave the nitrates alone as long as they don't fall below 10.

And you are trusting your test kit to tell you this?

Add iron and potassium every few days or when the plants look like they need it, holes form, leaves yellow etc.

Waiting for a deficiency to show is really too late.

But this touches on a very important and often over looked aspect of a successful tank.

A huge factor in whether or not you are successful is creating a simple habit. A good stable routine that's constant.

You've got a lot of stuff there and dosing seems to be haphazard, lot of messing with the water.

Keep it simple. Dose the NPK stuff 3 times a week to a rate of 5ppm NO3. Dose micros 3 times a week - 2.5ml for the 10 gal, 5ml for the 25gal each dose.
That's pretty much it.

Keep GH above 3dgh.

The blackwater extract will mess up your Co2 readings using the KH/pH chart.
Measure Co2 based on pH only.

Take some tank water and leave stand for 24 hrs to degas. After the 24hrs measure pH and at the same time measure tank pH. If your Co2 is at the desired rate of 30ppm the tank pH sould be 1 point lower then the 24hr sample.
i.e if the 24hr sample is 7.8pH then the tank should be 6.8pH, that's about 30ppm of co2.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

My aim for pH is to have the CO2 bring it to that value, the KH is still higher than hoped for (80 ppm) and I thought that affected the CO2 amount, which is why the messing with the water, I thought if I got the KH within range then the amount of CO2 would be higher, am I wrong in this? GH is definitely going to stay above 3, I haven't really been able to lower either GH or KH by very much, which is why I still search for a way to bring it to the desired level for optimal CO2 levels.

Thanks for the dosing regimen, I will follow it. In fact I'm copying it out right now.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

I might have to brake down and try it. Right now my CO2 is right about where I want it so I am not going to mess with it.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I thought if I got the KH within range then the amount of CO2 would be higher, am I wrong in this?

Way way way wrong. But it's a common enough mistake and mis understanding.

KH is a buffer it's not in and of itself a source of Co2.

People read a little about the KH/pH relationship and think "hey if reduce that (KH) I'll get more Co2 !". Doesn't happened , the pH will drop with it and the amount of Co2 will remain the same -and vice versa.

The only reason KH needs to be altered is if it's less then 2dgh as this low of a buffer will lead to serious pH swings when Co2 is introduced.

You are making things very had on yourself. No need to play with GH/KH/pH unless they are too low. pH should never be messed with unless through the addition of Co2.

Forget about the black water extracts and all that. Your tap water is very similar to mine 7.8ph here out of the tap, 5 KH and 8Gh. Yet I can grow anything and keep most all kinds of fish. Why give yourself a headache.

Keep it simple. Co2 will be your biggest problem. Focus on getting that right. Forget the buffers etc. Keep a very simple dosing routine as outlined above. Get the Co2 right.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

It's the GH and KH that are not the same, mine are way over 5, 300ppm for both from the tap, this works out to about 17 degrees, at that level there is no change in pH when CO2 is injected and my bubble rate for CO2 is so low that I doubt it's doing any good! The blackwater stuff brings the KH down to about 6, which I can live with, the GH I don't really worry about as there is not much I can do about it, the extract does reduce it as well though not as much as the KH, and I test it to see where it's at but it has been the high KH from the tap that has me going crazy. Do I have any effect from the CO2 with the KH that high? At 17 degrees I mean, obviously 6 is ok. If I can achieve 6 with the blackwater then that's what I am using it for, I am not going for 3 or anything, or trying to lower pH, it just happens with the stuff to some extent. I'm going to re-read Chuck Gadds article and go through the EI article as well.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Yesterday my computer was possesed or something, thus the extra posts that mean nothing and I couldn't reply at all when I wanted to. Now bensaf is off celebrating, as is most everyone else. But I have to report that I have lost another oto, I now have no otos in the 25, I still have the original pair in the 10 though so I'm not completely otoless. I'll be posting some new pics soon, I will warn you the tank looks completely different, better I'd say, but different still so it has taken some getting used to. I may still move a couple of plants around and I'm looking for a couple other's to add better balance in the tank. Overall I'm pleased with the new look. Now to get the CO2 going better. I'm trying another DIY canister, the traditional 2L pop bottle in addition to the Hagen canister already on the tank, I figure I need both due to the high KH...so that's what I'll do.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

this works out to about 17 degrees, at that level there is no change in pH when CO2 is injected and my bubble rate for CO2 is so low that I doubt it's doing any good!

So what do you think is the main problem , the Kh or the low bubble rate ?

If your co2 bubbling is so low it probably doesn't matter what your KH is. That's top priority.

If the blackwater is reducing the KH and it's easy to dose , fine. But be aware that most KH reducers have a lot of phosphate.

If it's a small tank maybe mixing your tap water with RO/DI or bottled water is an option ?

Co2 is still your biggest problem.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

My guess is too low a bubble rate. So to start with I'll add a second CO2 bottle and see what happens with that. The extract is really easy to use, I just add it to the water before the water goes into the tank. The timing is the tricky part, too long and it drops the pH a lot, not long enough and it has no effect at all. It drops the KH the same in either circumstance though. RO water may be an option for the smaller tank, but the extract does as well for it, I'd maybe look at using it to cut the tap water with, I think it would have the same effect as the blackwater though. The blackwater extract has no phosphates in it.

I entered the results into Chuck Gadds CO2 caculator and I'm at 2 ppm right now. Not good.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

As promised new pics of the tank, please ignore the greenish tinge, it's going away I swear.

[link=The whole tank in perspective] http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/luvmypetz/Wholetankperspective.jpg[/link]
The whole tank closer up
The Right side
The left side

Sorry wingsdlc, she just wasn't posing for me tonight, she was checking out the new set-up and kept ducking behind the plants as I was shooting. Her colour is just as good as always though.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus