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Plant Sages;

I approach you head bowed and humble to present to you my 50 gallon planted.

Tank: 100cm X 40cm X 50cm(h)
Light: 1.8WPG 3X30Watt Sylvania Octron 6500K
Substrate: Aquarium gravel mix with Hagen Geosystems
Ferts: Weekly 50ml dose of Tetra Flora Pride

All your comments will be greatly appreciatted. Please pick it apart and do your worse, its all for the improvement of the latter.

Im including a link to a thread posted on photo booth where you can find some other close ups, in order to avoid posting the same pics twice:

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/34412.1.htm?21#

Thanks in advance for your point of view and opinions, they will help in improving the micro habitat.

James

Attached Image:

50 Gallon Planted

James

I have several concerns with that tank, overall it looks like you have put somw effort/thought into it.

I will e/m your photo you with some suggestions that you might consider, please give me a few days contact you early next week

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Plant Sages;

I approach you head bowed and humble to present to you my 50 gallon planted.

Now that is a great opening line

James,

The tank looks pretty nice. A few questions:

- When have the current plants been added to the tank?
- What are the current plants, although I think I can identify quite a few of them?
- How long is the lighting period?
- I am unfamiliar with the "Hagen Geosystems" - what is is and how did you use it?
- what is in "Tetra Flora Pride"?
- What is your maintenance routine and how often do you perform maintenance?
- Is the tank near a natural light source?
- How well do the plants grow - in some detail please?

And for the time being only one comment on the scape, ok, two:

- IMHO, there is too much red in the foreground, this gives the tank a somewhat artificial look. A splash of red from mid or background may be better.
- The wood looks to sterile in the tank and somewhat out of place, some moss (as you have enough of it) towards to top may make it look more integrated in the scape.
- Ok, got another one, LOL, the moss seems overgrown, watch out for die-offs in the bottom.
- And another one: The green stems in the back right (Ambulia or Cabomba, I guess) could be in stronger numbers to form a tighter group rather than accidental placements.

But otherwise, not too shabby,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

hey red looking forward to following your log and L_F dont take it the wrong way but looking forward to make it the new "longest log on F_P"

33 gallon 7 neon tetras-5 platys-3 bleeding heart tetras-2 corys-1 rainbow shark-2 L83 gibby plecos

... and L_F dont take it the wrong way but looking forward to make it the new "longest log on F_P"

Why would I take it the wrong way? If one has a lot to say/show then one deserves the longest log. I have no monopoly on that position.

On a more important note, length, in number of entries or time of existence, is way less important than content. There is nothing wrong with the occasional hm - getting of topic () - as you very well can see in my log, but 3000 entries of blah-blah will be neither to the benefit of the log owner nor of anybody who tries to learn from the success/failure of the tank described in the log.

Again, not taken the wrong way, but be prepared that I keep a eye open for the stuff explained in the last paragraph

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hello everyone,

Its until tonight that I am able to log back in to check the thread. Thanks for your responses, they are all greatly appreciatted and helpful.

Keithgh: Thanks for your intrest and concerns, will be looking forward to reading your email at any point you have the chance to send it. Dont rush on my behalf.

Platy boy: Hope you enjoy the pictures and that the info that develops from the thread helps you out in some way. About this becoming the longest thread...well, its a tough one...L_F has one loooong thread that will pretty much stay at the top for a while. Ive been reading his 125 gallon log for the past 6 months and Im only up to page 99! Sorry L_F, you'll have to live with the "Log King" title for a while...

LITTLE_FISH:

Thank you as well for the intrest and will be looking forward to your comments and suggestions. I'll try to answer all your questions as best as possible in order to provide a basis for discussion.

- When have the current plants been added to the tank?

Current plants were introduced into the tank January 10th

- What are the current plants, although I think I can identify quite a few of them?

Current plants are:

-Valisneria gigantea
-Echinodorus bleheri
-Ludwiga repens (Not Sure)
-Microsorium pteropus
-Cryptocoryne sp.
-Anubias Barteri
-Limnophila indica
-Alternathera reineckii
-Vesicularia dubyana
-Echinodorus amazonica(Not Sure)
-Cabomba caroliniana
-Hygrophila polysperma(Sold to me under that name but it resembles Ludwiga repens)

- How long is the lighting period?

11.5 hours, set to go on 30 minutes after sunrise(6:00am) and goes off 20 minutes before sun sets(5:30pm)

- I am unfamiliar with the "Hagen Geosystems" - what is is and how did you use it?

Hagen Geosystems was a mistake... Its a smaller sized substrate, shaped like flakes, very porous, the plants like it but it buffers my ph to 8. I mixed it in with the gravel in a 4/1 ratio with aquarium gravel.

Heres a link to the site


- what is in "Tetra Flora Pride"?

Soluble potash (K2O) 3% (Potassium sulfate)
Iron (Fe) 0.15% (Ferric sulfate)

- What is your maintenance routine and how often do you perform maintenance?

Weekly 30% WCs with gravel vaccum. Trim the ambulia, vals and moss every 15-20 days.

- Is the tank near a natural light source?

Yes the tank is by a smaller window that gets direct sunlight in the early morning for around 2 hours.

- How well do the plants grow - in some detail please?

I will elaborate on this point from computer at home.

- IMHO, there is too much red in the foreground, this gives the tank a somewhat artificial look. A splash of red from mid or background may be better.

The large amount of red is due to the tank centered around the Red Phantom Tetras, which are the focal fish of the tank. Thus if you notice most coloration around the tank is red or brown reddish and the alternatheras provide the RPs with great cover, maybe an option would be moving the red plants to the background, but I am removing little by little the red ones on the right hand frontal corner, just havent figured out what to place there, maybe some rocky hardscape?

- The wood looks to sterile in the tank and somewhat out of place, some moss (as you have enough of it) towards to top may make it look more integrated in the scape.

Out of place? What would you recommend? There are 3 pieces of wood, left to right, a V shaped coffee plant (As my good friend El Tiburon Tailandes refers to it) which is lighter brown and its positioned so that the vortex of the V is dug into the gravel with the 2 branches extending to the top of the tank. Moss over-growing on left vertical branch. A dark purplish log shaped like a whale's dorsum, right side is overcovered in moss. And the Emerging Phoenix
(Local Hang Out Spot) which is held down by a red rock since it floats.

- Ok, got another one, LOL, the moss seems overgrown, watch out for die-offs in the bottom.

Haven't noticed die off's on the bottom parts of the moss, it seems to be able to grow green even in very dark areas, but I will keep an eye out on it. It is "somewhat" over grown and the plants are due for a trim, vals and ambulia as well.

- And another one: The green stems in the back right (Ambulia or Cabomba, I guess) could be in stronger numbers to form a tighter group rather than accidental placements.

Yes the ambulia and the two trimmings that are left of of cabomba(far left bottom corner) are growing at the moment, and the plan is to replant the clippings from those same plants and plant them in that area. It will make for a nice little tall forest.

Thats it for now, since I have to leave the office and go home... I'll try to get online at home and drop some more details into the mix.

Thanks again for all your comments and questions, allI can say is keep them coming.

Thanks,

James

Current plants were introduced into the tank January 10th

That's good, all seemed to be settled then, except if you have a habit of constantly moving them around (given that you are on page 99 of my log, you know at least one person who tends to do things like that )

Current plants are:

Quite a collection, James. Over time, and given the current plants, you will have some serious shading and space issues. At least the Valisneria gigantea and Echinodorus bleheri will grown rather large, and - given that I could not find a plant with this name - the Echinodorus amazonica would be a common sword and as such pretty big as well. The Barteri, if it should be a Barteri and not a Barteri var. Nana, should be at some point way too big, just see page (around) 120 in my log. On top of it, you have a lot of fast growers that will be, even when trimmed, at least half the tank height. That leaves you with almost no smaller plant, except for the crypt.
Given these overall conditions, at least for now you managed to give the tank the feeling of depth, kudos for that!

Lighting period is fine. I asked this in connection with the "natural light source" point, as your red plants seem to be in too good of a shape for 1.8wpg and shading from some tall plants. This explains it though.

Hagen Geosystems was a mistake

What is in that stuff, loads of crushed coral? What is your tab ph and GH? The way it looks from your link this stuff is even intended as a pure substrate without mixing.

Soluble potash (K2O) 3% (Potassium sulfate) - Iron (Fe) 0.15% (Ferric sulfate)

And that's it? No other goodies? Where do your plants get their other macros from? Just the fish? And what about the other micros, magnesium and such?

Weekly 30% WCs with gravel vaccum. Trim the ambulia, vals and moss every 15-20 days.

Water Change is good, trimming indicates a rather slow growth (low tech/low light tank) of some of the plants, in line with the tank setup. Out of curiosity: how do you trim the Vals?

The large amount of red is due to the tank centered around the Red Phantom Tetras, which are the focal fish of the tank.

This may be only me, but, IMHO, the best way to bring out the focus is by contrast and not by blending. It is harder to stick out for a red fish when surrounded by red plants. The opposing color of red (I don't know what the Teachings of the Science of Color is called in English) is green, that would contrast the fish the best. And luckily, that is a color plentiful available in our tanks. Again, if the light permits, I think the red would be much better lurking out from the back of the tank, in a tighter setting.

Out of place? What would you recommend?

Yump to the last maybe 3 to 4 pages in my log and view the second to right stick there in a full tank shot. As you will see, it "sticks" out. This is because it is not integrated in its surrounding. If your taller plants would be closer to the wood, then it would be more integrated. Of course this would mean that you have rather tall plants further upfront, not good either. So I conclude: I at least would move it further back, just before the new Ambulia/Cabomba group. Play with it until you are happy.

That's it for now, good job so far James (better than I did),

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

dont want to make any ememys!

33 gallon 7 neon tetras-5 platys-3 bleeding heart tetras-2 corys-1 rainbow shark-2 L83 gibby plecos

dont want to make any ememys!

Don't worry, I am way over the phase where I would declare someone in this hobby my enemy just because he/she has a different opinion or a different goal, so no harm done

heck, if we all would strive for the same thing, and actually achieve it, our tanks would all look alike. How boring would that be ?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hello again,

In an attempt to explain plant growth individually I've put together a reference picture to help on identification and placement.

It looks like a kindergarden project drawing but dont mind the bad lines! Let me know if I have to edit to make it look more clear and understandable.

Note: Im still catching up and responding to earlier posts, I'll do my best to keep up L_F!

1-Valisneria gigantea
a)Left side background
b)Right corner background
2-Echinodorus bleheri
3-Ludwiga repens
4-Microsorium pteropus
5-Cryptocoryne sp.
6-Anubias Barteri
7-Limnophila indica
a)Left corner frontal ground
b)Right side middle ground
8-Alternathera reineckii
a)Left frontal/middle ground
b)Center frontal ground
c)Right corner frontal ground
d)Center back ground
9-Vesicularia dubyana
a)Attached to left branch of V-shaped log
b)Attached to right side of whale dorsum shaped log
10-Echinodorus sp. (Broad leaf amazon)
a)Left side middle ground
b)Right corner frontal ground
11-Cabomba caroliniana
12-Hygrophila polysperma






Attached Image:

Outline of Tank

1a. Valisneria gigantea

This plant although it gives the tank a flowing current look is way too large to upkeep. I do like it but would consider replacing it with corkscrew val instead.

At the beggining I had some real good growth on them, some leaves would reach close to 2 meters long and were thick and lush. Currently I get a lot of runners and new leaves, but not as thick or as long as during the first month. They seem to come out thinner and will turn brown with time, these plants also deteriorate very quickly, brown parts start dying off and leaf rips or gets a hole in it.

I trim this gal by going as close down the leaf to the base as possible, making sure Im not cutting emerging leaves. Once the base is cut short and looks to stubby and thinned out I would remove it and replace with one of the runners.

These have to be trimmed and thin out the amounts a little since its blocking too much light.

1b.Valisneria gigantea

This side is in the process of being reduced/removed or pushed to the very back right corner to make room for all the other plants that are in that area. Leaves do not grow as long as other side.

Attached Image:

Valisneria gigantea

2.Echinodorus bleheri

This sword has stayed very small and has shown very little growth. It is positioned in a place that doesn't seem to get enough light or substrate is too big for it. It hasnt had a chance to settle in since it gets uprooted every other week, but lately I've noticed new leaves and deeper roots.

Attached Image:

Echinodorus bleheri

3. Ludwiga repens

This plant needs to be identified... It was sold to me as Red Hygrophila (12.Hygrophylla polysperma??). I think the color of it is truly green but gets taints of yellow, orange and red on some parts.

It was probably around 2-3 inches tall when I got the 5 clippings, now approaching the 6-7 inch range. It seems to grow very slow and tends to do so towards one side or the other, not straight up.

No trimming has been done, only re-rooting.

Attached Image:

Ludwiga sp. or Hygrophylla sp.

4.Microsorium pteropus

Java fern was added about a month ago and its still getting acclimatised. Some leaves have melted a little and turned dark or covered with algae, but there is noticeable growth from the roots.

It'll probably fasten itself first and then start sprouting, it is still held to the wood by monofilament.

Finding it a placement in the tank was quite a task and it may have incurred in prolonging the settleing-in of this specimen.

Attached Image:

Microsorium pteropus

5.Cryptocoryne sp.

These little guys were fully green and had longer leaves when acquired but seem to have turned reddish on the underside and reduced in length, wich in turn are looking somewhat corrugated on the tops of it.

No growth in height has occurred but new leaves and powerful green (photosynthesizing?) roots are taking hold.

Attached Image:

Cryptocoryne sp.

5.Cryptocoryne sp.

A view from underneath... notice the red coloration on the underside.


Attached Image:

Cryptocoryne sp. underside

6.Anubias barteri

I got this plant about 2 months ago. After settling in, it sprouted an almost normal sized leaf in the first month. During the second month it sprouted a smaller sized leaf, coloration was somewhat clearer at first and started turning darker as they matured. Both do seem thinner looking and have some jagged edges to them.

You can see the newest leaf on the very bottom of the pic, its the lighter colored one. The previous sprout is located right on top of the latter and right under the loricariid's tail.

No trimming has occurred or repositioning.

Pay no mind to the local fauna, they just wouldn't move out of the shot!

Attached Image:

Anubias Barteri

7a. Limnophila indica

The ambulia is one of the plants on which I've seen better results. I probably bought around ten individual plants and they have grown and after clipping the tops and losses due to fish-scaping, now range in the 15's in number, with two or three tops to each basal stem.

The growth from the bottom to mid-water level is quite slow and may grow an inch per week. Once it gets past the mid-water mark, it boosts to the top and may grow 2 inches in one week, breaking the surface in a matter of three weeks.

Coloration is a light green all over. Once the plant is closer to the surface, the top gets a yellow-reddish tinge on it. Also lateral roots come out from the leaf nodules.

Trimming occurs every 15 days or when the plant reaches the surface. Clipped at mid water level or under the root extensions growing out, done so as close to leaf nodule, leaving a truncated top on the rooted plant. Clippings have been replanted in the vicinity leaving 1.5-2 inches between each plant.

They hold some serious root system.

This side is slower in growth than the patch located on the right hand side.

Attached Image:

Limnophila indica Left side