FishProfiles.com Message Forums

I have gravel in my tank right now and wondering what kind of plant substrate I could add in the areas where I want a few plants to go? I want a black substrate, nothing "muddy" looking and something that wouldnt cloud up the water when added because I already have fish in the tank.

First of all, it wouldnt matter if the substrate will cloud up the water, because you HAVE to take out the fish from the tank when replacing substrate. Not an easy task! I have found that Ecco Complete, or even fine grained gravel will be good for plants. Anyway, the cloudiness wont affect the fish too much, only if it makes them gasp for air, then i would worry. Now depending on the filter, it will be cleared up in no time. The substrate will eventually mix in, so i reccomend you either add all of one thing, or maybe layer it, with ecco complete on the bottom and a thin layer of fine gravel. If you leave the fish in there, they will die of stress. In all, it would take 1-3 hours depending on if you layer or just re-substratize it(a new word-i just use it).

><> ~=!Vote Today!=~ <><
-----> View My Dragons <-----

IME it has seemed best not to try to mix substrates as they tend to separate and look oddly sorted due to size and shape. Ecocomplete would fit your bill exactly, but I guess it's not BLACK. It's a bit more charcoalish. I'd personally either completely change out the substrate, or leave as is and add some root tabs if you are really worried about it. Lots of folks maintain great planted tanks with just pea gravel provided they dose ferts into the water column.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I guess, I think it would look neat with mixed gravel, but thats just me...... Ecco complete isnt neccesary, and is probably more expensive than gravel. Also, it could be better to use fine gravel because it will help it root better.

I'd personally either completely change out the substrate

If you have larger gravel, then you shouild change it to pea or fine grained gravel. This will help the plants root better. Good luck! Just remember to take out the fish!

><> ~=!Vote Today!=~ <><
-----> View My Dragons <-----

I have Estes Spectra Stone in there right now, a mixture of two sizes one is the regular "pea size" i guess you would say and the other is more fine.

I don't want to take out any gravel...I just put it in!

I don't really want what I would say is a "planted tank", I just want a few real plants (maybe like 3-4) amongst fake plants.

As for lighting I have whatever the standard is on a 55gal. tank. So low light plants, hardy, and also I have hard water if that makes a difference...

The only plnats I have ever tried are the bulbs you get from Walmart and they actually worked good just planted in gravel.

Hi,
There are ways of doing it however the line between
what you add and what was already there will become blurred
as the two mix over time. You could try something
different. Take the bottoms off of the 2l plastic soft
drink bottles and then hollow out an area (right down to
the glass) and set the bottom into the tank (filled with
your desired substrate and planted) and then fill in the
area around the insert with the gravel you removed. Cover
the exposed edges with the excess gravel and perhaps a
1/4 inch all the way over the inserted bottom (covers up
the edges and the different color gravel making it all look
like one). In essence you are using a sort of flower pot
for each plant or group of plants, and covering up the pot
with the gravel that is already in the tank.

If you gravel is too shallow for the bottle bottoms, pull
the black bottoms off and discard them and then cut the
bottom of the bottle to the right height and use the clear
plastic bottoms.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Most of the low light hardy plants like java moss, java fern, and anubias plants don't even need to be planted in the substrate. They tend to do better rooted into rock or driftwood. If I were you I'd just get some nice DW and some of the plants listed above and not worry about the gravel.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I agree with Matty... why not just use fertilizer sticks or tabs or whatever? Just shove the sticks/tabs into the gravel near the plants. Seems like that would be the easiest way to go about things if you will only have a few plants to fertilize.

Flourish Plant Tabs

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

Flourish tabs work great. They are expensive though. $9-13 a box depending on where you get them from. Placing enough in a 55g will kill your wallet as they cover 4-6 inches a piece so were talking about 4 boxes. Over time the substrate will become nutrient rich from the humas and waste that finds its way into it. I was recommended Jobes plant fertalizer tabs for terran plants. Place a few in the substrate and the base of the plants. I just tried this Saturday, and I am hoping for the best.
If the plants you have take most of their nutrients from their leaves rather than roots, you may want to try some of the lquid fertalizers on the market like leafzone or flourish.


"There is also a Clown Pleco in this tank some where. I am telling you, HE IS IN HERE."

Ok here are some plants that I like:

water lettuce- pistica stratiates
plagionium
windelov's fern- microsorum pteropus
marimo balls
dwarf chain sword narrow leaf tenellus
dwarf hairgrass
microsword-lilaeopsis
cryptocoryne retrospiralis
bacopa monnieri
cardamine lyrata
vallisneria spiralis
crytocoryne pontederiifolia
apogeneton crispus
pennywort
microanthemum umbrusum
cryptocoryne balansae
ludwigia repens
cyperus helferi
vallisneria corkscrew
java fern (regular and narrow leaf)
dwarf sag.
pearl grass
echinodorus tenellus
glossostigma
echinodorus "rose"
isoetes vetata varsicula
echinodorus uruguayensis
lobelia cardinalis
riccia fluitans
pellia

Long list I know haha, and I'm sure there's even more out there that I like. I know I don't want any kind of red plant that has even the slightest tint of brown to it like most of the red plants seem to have. I have a couple reddish/purplish plants on my list but those are the only ones I've seen that I like that weren't green.

Here's my setup:

I have a blue background, black/blue mix gravel, gray castle ornaments. I am going for a fantasy theme, something that looks like it came straight out of a fairytale. So I have the castles and I'm going to have fish that have sparkle to them (congos or diamonds, the shimmery platy/swordtail, etc.).

I have standard lighting on the 55. But I believe I am only going to have real plants on one side of the tank and the other side is mainly taken up by the castles and a few fake plants, I could put a few low light plants on that side but I'm thinking if I really want any plants that need more than low light I could put them on the other side and replace the lighting on that side only.

If I need to put some rocks or driftwood in the tank in order to anchor some of these plants, I'll put them on the other side of the castle but I would want them to be small and covered by some type of plant, I don't want the driftwood to show at all. The rocks could show if I got some grayish colored rocks.

Oh and I wouldn't mind if the plant substate mixed with the gravel that I already have in it. I dont expect it to be a neat layer of gravel and a neat layer of plant substrate, I know they would eventually mix. And a grayish substrate actually wouldnt be all that bad mixed in with the black gravel and with the castles being gray.

Or maybe I could slide the gravel to one side of the tank since I said I only want one side of the tank to be planted and then I could add plant substrate to that side and maybe put a little of the gravel back on top of it.

If I were to scoot the gravel over and place plant substrate on the other side, could I use a tank divider to temporarily divide the tank so that only part of the tank (the part without the fish) would get cloudy or would the water still be able to travel beyond the divider? I'm not sure how those divider things work.

Hi,
OK, First, what you can't do...
You cannot make all of these changes with the fish in the
tank. You will be destroying the bacterial colonies that
live within the gravel and the tank will recycle. The
ammonia and nitrite build up that naturally occurs before
the nitrate starts to build will kill many of those fish
you mention will be in the tank.

What you need to do, is sit down with a pad of paper and
write up a plan.
Write down what you want where, including what ornaments
rocks, real plants and fake plants. Better yet take a
large piece of freezer paper and set it out on a table.
Then arrange the items in the positions that you want them
in. When arranged to your satisfaction, write down what
goes where and outline the items on the paper.
When you finally have everything that you need, including
the various colors of gravel, then start working on the
tank.
Place the various color gravels in their places.
Fill the tank about a third full and start placing the
other stuff in the tank. Start at one end and work to the
other.
Step back and look at the tank after you place all of
one category. For instance, once you have all the fake
plants in the tank look at them, are they arranged the
way you want them. If not, fix them. Do the same with
the ornaments, and the rocks. Lastly, place the live
plants in the tank.

Your idea of placing the live plants at one end is an idea
but unless your hood is in two pieces, I don't see how you
are going to concentrate the light at one end of the tank.
Most hoods for a 55 are one or two fluorescent bulbs in
one long hood. That gives you a uniform lighting across
the entire tank and, they are generally a 40 watt bulb,
which will give you a little over one half watt per gallon.
Way, low light for plants. Roughly 90% of the plants you
have listed will flat out die in that tank. You simply
do not have enough light for them to survive. For most of
them you will have to use fake plants.

When you get everything in the tank the way you want it,
then fill it the rest of the way. With the filter and
heater and any air stones running, I'd leave the tank
sit for a couple of days. That time will allow you to
make any final decisions as far as placement is concerned
and the filters time to clear up any cloudiness. Then,
I would start the fish-less cycling process.
When the tank has cycled, I would then start adding the
fish.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I already have everything in the tank, gravel, castle, fake plants, fish (only a few so far). Everything is in place like i want it to be on the left side of the tank.

Placing a few plants on the right side of the tank is just an afterthought that I had, thought it would look nice and be simple enough and I only had a few fake plants so I'm going to have to either buy fake or real ones for that side and real seems to be cheaper and more interesting.

As for the substrate I just thought that if I could do the one side fake/one side real idea that I could use gravel on one side and plant substrate on the other by simply moving the gravel on the one side over to the other since the gravel level isn't where I want it to be yet anyway so it would add some height to the gravel level.

My light strip is not one piece thats why I mentioned that I could do the half fake/ half real plants idea. There are two 24in. long light strips, one for each side and each has one light bulb strip in it. I don't know what the wattage is. (I guess whatever the wattage is for a 20gal. times 2). I can upgrade my lighting if need be, just wanted to know what a standard 55 has, I guess I could just look though haha.

Oh one more thing I forgot, how would I be destroying the bacteria colony if I dont want to remove any of the gravel thats in there I simply want to add some plant substrate to the tank. I wish I could draw a picture on here of what I'm planning haha, would be so much simpler.

Hi,
Good work.
When you dump gravel on top of existing biologically active
gravel, you kill off the colonies (smother them) and the
top layer has to colonize. Depending upon how much surface
area you are burying, the tank may recycle, or do a mini
cycle.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Now THAT is something I didn't know Frank!

I want to do something similar to fishyfishy, except not fool with my substrate, but add a little more gravel I have left. I will just plant some more wal-mart bulbs & stick a tab by each one. Simple is what I'm after too.

Attached Image:

Hi,
Assuming it is regular aquarium gravel, wash it throughly
and then add it a little at a time over a small section
at a time, wait a week or two, and do the next section.
Continue until you have accomplished what you wanted to do.
I just would not do it all at once.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Got it Frank! Just like cleaning the gravel......... do 1/4 section at a time each week so as not to disturb the biological activity too much.

Thanks!

Attached Image:

So every time you rearrange plants and ornaments and move some of the gravel around digging the plants into it or building up areas to set ornaments on, etc. you destroy the bacteria colonies?

Hi,
No, not necessarily. When you bury the current surface
under a another layer of gravel the colony will die from
lack of oxygen. When you vacuum the gravel (if you do it
right) the gravel gets swirled around in the siphon tube
and then returned in a haphazard manner. In that case the
some of the colonies can be buried and fresh gravel from
the bottom winds up on top.
Colonies exist the surface of each and every grain of
gravel. If you bury a grain, then the colonies on that
grain could be suffocated while grains that have no
colonies, are brought to the surface and adjacent colonies
spread to the fresh grains. Grain by grain, its no big
deal, but when you turn over the entire tank for an over
haul, or vacuum the entire tank at once, then you are
asking for a problem.

Frank



-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--