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This will probably make it easier on everyone.

I appreciate all the help I can get. From now, thank you.

1. How crucial is the height of the tank in terms of light? In other words, if a tank is taller does light have a tougher time reaching the plants? Enough to affect the growth and overall welfare of the plants?

2. How important is siphoning a planted tank? Is it even possible to siphon a tank that is basically covered with plants? What would one achieve by disrupting the roots and what not of all the plants?

Thanks, those are two that have been doing laps in my head recently. Thanks.


ETT.

with nothing blocking it unless your tank is ungodly tall then it shouldnt really matter how tall the tank is. the other question....no idea.

The true test of character is not how much we know how to do, but how we behave when we dont know what to do.

This direction is directed mostly to Frank, but anyone with an opinion is welcome.

You recommended reading the book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana L. Walstad, I just read it and paid a good deal of attention to her claim of using Soil with most if not all of her tanks. I think I am leaning towards using soil, I was just wondering what you think and or if you have any recommendations for doing this? Should I be looking for something in particular or something to avoid.

My attention is yours.

Thank you.

1. How crucial is the height of the tank in terms of light? In other words, if a tank is taller does light have a tougher time reaching the plants? Enough to affect the growth and overall welfare of the plants?

The deeper the water the less the light can get to the full depth of the tank. If you want more info I suggest you contact Sera as they are a maker of quality lights.

2. How important is siphoning a planted tank? Is it even possible to siphon a tank that is basically covered with plants? What would one achieve by disrupting the roots and what not of all the plants?

Certain plants eg some Crypts it is advisable not to remove the mulm around the base of the plant as this rots down and becomes a natural food for the plant.

I would never disturb the roots for any reason other than relocating the plant. I often use a long chop stick to stir up and get between the plants and let the filter do the work. In the Betta tank I have know where that I can use a syphon into the substrate.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

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ETT.

1. How crucial is the height of the tank in terms of light? In other words, if a tank is taller does light have a tougher time reaching the plants? Enough to affect the growth and overall welfare of the plants?

I have a 32 inch deep tank and there is no doubt in my mind (after 7 months) that
getting light thru that depth of water to plants like Dwarf Hairgrass and other small
foreground plants is a problem. The type of light needs to be very bright( metal Halide)
to grow those type of plants at that depth . Most other plants will do ok but will reach
for the light which creates a different sort of problem as they can get very full on top
and deny light to the bottom of the plant .
SO in answer to your question ...yes depth will affect plant growth.

2. How important is siphoning a planted tank? Is it even possible to siphon a tank that is basically covered with plants? What would one achieve by disrupting the roots and what not of all the plants?

I always Gravel Vac my tanks during water changes . I simply wave the siphon around
in the plants without digging into the gravel in the heavily planted areas. Occassionally
in areas where the plants are very well established and rooted down I will push the
plants about a bit and get to the gravel .
IMO it still remains important to follow a solid maintaince program and keep waste
levels under control .

Hope this helps


Garry

Hi,
Dana has inspired quite a few folks to try her type
of tanks. The results are amazing, and as you read,
low maintenance. I've both volumes. The first was
a real eye opener as I read about plants, how they grow
and protect themselves, as well as how they filter
nutrients and heavy metals, and the interactions of
plants and the substrate. In volume two she elaborated
on many of the principles in volume one. Either is
well worth reading and in my mind, a must, if one is going
to venture into that type of substrate. My first attempt
nearly 3 decades ago yielded a 15 gallon tank that
initially grew a forest of Val, and then decayed into
something that smelled and looked like a septic tank.
Now, after reading the book(s) I know where I erred, and
someday, with time permitting, I'm going to try again.

Tanks that are literally covered with plants, are very
difficult to keep clean. You will need a "cleaning crew"
of critters to help maintain the tank. This crew would
include shrimp, snails (MTS) and others, and fish
like Otto's and perhaps even some Corie's. You cannot get to
the substrate in a tank like this so come water changing
times, you would want to swirl your hand over the plants
and carpet to stir up any loose detritus into the water
column where the siphon and/or the filter can draw it off.

As far as the height (Depth) of a tank is concerned, 2 feet
seems to be the point after which light makes a difference.
Plants use the red and blue ends of the spectrum for
growth. We humans use the middle area of the spectrum to
see. We can see in the two ends (red and blue) but we
don't distinguish colors very well, if at all, at those
extremes. Turn out the lights and put a red piece of
plastic on your flashlight and look around your room.
OR, have a tank with just "moon lights" and try and
distinguish the colors of the plants and fish. They will
be various shades of Grey.
Red light is the low end, and is low energy, it cannot
penetrate more than a few inches into the water before it
is scattered or absorbed so much that very little reaches
the depth of 2 feet. The blue end is the high end of
the spectrum and is high energy. Blue light can penetrate
much deeper, be scattered less, and absorbed less.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/pg/KelvinTempExplained/

The optimum light for both humans and plants is around
4000 - 20,000 degrees Kelvin. However, light around
4000 - 6,000K is pinkish, or yellowish in tint (color)
Light that is 10,000K or higher is more and more bluish in
color. An Actinic Blue light for instance, is literally
blue and is always used in conjunction with a white bulb
to wash out the blue (as we see it).

In a fresh water tank light that is between 6700 & 8800K
is the best for tanks up to 2 feet deep. At 2 feet, if
you are going to have carpet plants, as well as others,
then you would want to start at 8800 and go to as high
as 10,000K to be sure that the energy was getting down to
the substrate and to the carpet plants. I would still
stick to the wattage formulas for WPG and get plants
in light demand groups that match your WPG, but in a tank
over 2 feet or over, I'd also use the higher K rating bulbs.

Saltwater tanks, especially the reef tanks, are a whole
different bird. In those tanks you want huge amounts
of light (watts) and lights in the 10,000+ K ratings
mixed with lower K rated white bulbs as the
invertebrates use that light to produce specialized
algae that give them their brilliant colors and that
they consume.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Unbelievable how valuable a website can be. I just want everyone to know I appreciate your help.

With regards to using soil below the gravel, would this contemplate using a UGF or would it be better off without one?

Also, shoud I be looking for soil that has virtually never been treated with pesticides and chemicals alike, would that be it?

I think I am going to go with one of the Walstad tanks.......

Couple questions.

Ive been reading about this since yesterday for hours and I havent come across this so I'll ask this here.

1. there seems to be no talk of a UGF, I gather there is none in a Walstad tank, is this correct?

2. I also havent encountered much info relating to the filter. Would I possibly harm the tank in any way by putting a HOB on it?

3. It seems like you're planting is done once, as you mount the tank, but it seems like disturbing the gravel a week, a month or months later is not a good idea because of the soil that will be released into the water, is this correct?

Hi,
Yes, a UGF is not used in one of Diana's tanks. The
soils will slip through the slots in the filter plates
and clog everything up.

As I recall, the plants do the "filtering" in the tanks.
Something to provide currents within the tank is required,
perhaps a power head or two.

You are asking questions that you should find answers
for in the book. If you are going to create a tank
modeled on those discussed in THE ECOLOGY OF THE PLANTED
AQUARIUM, you should have your own copy of the book
readily available on your bookshelves.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--