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Gang,

Last week, I had a two day power outage at my house. I managed to get a generator to provide some filtration for my tanks, but I could not run it permanently. So, in detail, the almost exactly 2 days went like this:

20 hours no power, 4 power, 18 hours no power, 3 hours power, and another 2 hours no power before the main power to the house came back on.

Given that I have two tanks that run on Canister filters (the 125G on an Ehein 2028 and the 40G on an Ehein 2026), I was seriously considering to empty the filters before turning the generator on, but lazyness and the heat and the time frame made me cancel that plan. Plus the knowledge that tetratech had a similar event where he simply forgot to plug the filter in over night (if I remember this right).

From what I have heard and read about stalled canister filters, anaerobic bacteria, poisenous to fish, forms no later than 1 hour after a filter is turned off, given that in the confinements of a canister it would be impossible for oxygen to kill it off.

Well, long story short, I didn't lose a single fish. Granted, my tanks are planted (the 125G more than the newly set up 40G), but what is your input on this topic?

The always curious,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

From what I have heard and read about stalled canister filters, anaerobic bacteria, poisenous to fish, forms no later than 1 hour after a filter is turned off, given that in the confinements of a canister it would be impossible for oxygen to kill it off.

Good question Ingo, but I think you could throw all that logic out the window when it comes to "planted aquaria". especially in a good size tank (30-40+) It would be reasonable to assume that the majority of your biofilter is not in the canister but in the plants and substrate. The 40g which isn't as heavily planted as the 125g had a good rich bacteria packed substrate from the getgo. I simply don't think the levels would build up high enough with all that going on to do anything to the fish. If the outage was longer maybe you would have seen something in the 40g but the plants produced for a while and then they kicked back in a again.

As you mentioned I forgot to turn my filter on twice for about 15 hours and nothing happened except more pearling as explained by Master Bensaf

My Scapes

Healthy plants mean healthy fish , to summarize TA.

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Back in the saddle!

The longest I have had power go off for would be about 3-4 hrs. After each time it comes back on I always add a double dose of stress coat and a Bio starter (cycle).
You certainly raise a very interesting point there.

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Keith

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Tetratech,

Yes, I was sure that the planted tank theory will come up, in the least case this means that one would have to be more specific when identifying the "Anaerobic Bacteria Danger" topic. And also, at least it would cause a debate on how long one could go without turning a filter back on before something bad would happen, not with regards to general no-filter issue, but specific to Anaerobic Bacteria.

But - - I think it was NowherMan6 who brought up a good point a while ago, when I was in the middle of the blackout. As we have rightly identified, my tank is underfiltered and not quite the healthiest when it comes to algae etc. You suggested that I hook up another filter to handle my tank. Given these parameters, I would have to have quite a large load of biological filtration in my cannister, enhanced by the fact that I offer 4 liters of material in it to do so. I would assume that bacteria would opt for the filter just as much as they would for plants. So - making this a given, it still raises the question on why nothing happened

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think it was NowherMan6 who brought up a good point a while ago, when I was in the middle of the blackout. As we have rightly identified, my tank is underfiltered and not quite the healthiest when it comes to algae etc. You suggested that I hook up another filter to handle my tank. Given these parameters, I would have to have quite a large load of biological filtration in my cannister, enhanced by the fact that I offer 4 liters of material in it to do so. I would assume that bacteria would opt for the filter just as much as they would for plants. So - making this a given, it still raises the question on why nothing happened

Yeah it was Nowher (checky young pup with the *&$% cool nano) I just have to make myself a cup of coffee and I'll be back to answer this.........

My Scapes

O.K. I'm back

Not to belittle your NJ power disruption, but I don't think your power was out long enough to really prove anything other than the fact that your fish had enough o2 to live. Your power was never out for more than 20 hours and the water certainly had enough in it to sustain your fish.

We all know the nitrogen cycle, how organic waste is converted into nitrate. The organic waste that the beneficial bacteria eat are converting it before algae can use it for food. I don't think this is debatable, but be my guest. If you believe this concept than it stands to reason that the bigger filter you have the more organic waste it can handle before you have algae issues. It's tough to debate that tanks with big filters (bio or plants) and minimal fish loads have the least problems in terms of water quality.

When I mentioned your cansister is probably mostly adding flow I was talking short term for the fish when comparing it to the size of your tank, not long term algae fighting. The more filtration the better, period.




My Scapes

All right tetratech,

While I conceptually completely agree with you, I think we are not covering the basis of my question, namely "is the notion of the danger of Anaerobic Bacteria a hype"?

In my particular case again:

For the 125G - My one filter is for sure hammered with dying plant material, as I can easily see when I clean it. This material for sure contains beneficial bacteria, which in turn should conclude in a good biologial filter in the cannister. The general statement is that after one hour of no filter activity, Anaerobic Bacteria are beginning to form en masse. So - why would that not have happened in this tank?

For my 40G - The plants in the tank have been planted 5 days before the power outage (after removal of all ride-in plants). There is no way that the tanks biofilter was in top shape at that point. What happend with the Anaerobic Bacteria in this tank?

For my 20G and 29G - Both tanks (low tech / medium light)are medium planted at best and have HOBs and, albeit being supposed to take longer to form Anaerobic Bacteria, should have had the same issues after 20hours of no power.

Is your conclusion that planted tanks (at least medium planted) will not have issues with Anaerobic Bacteria in general?

My questions are
- did Anaerobic Bacteria form in the first place?
- if so, then what happed to them when the filters went back on?
- if not, why not (keep all 4 tanks in mind)?
- and, just to hear others, what is your personal experience with Anaerobic Bacteria? If you have any, then please describe the circumstances and the tank.

Tetratech, do you see a difference in what you say and what I would like to know? My question goes way beyond my 125G.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Is your conclusion that planted tanks (at least medium planted) will not have issues with Anaerobic Bacteria in general?

Maybe it's Eco


No, but seriously I don't proclaim to be a marine (freshwater) scientist, but I just don't see how the anaerobic bacteria would do any real damage in those tanks when you lost power for at most 20 hrs at one time. The fact that all the fish survived tell me that the o2 levels didn't get depleted (reduced yes) enough for the anaerobic bacteria to flourish. The tanks weren't completely dark so there must have been some photosynthesis taking place (even with a tiny bit of light). Also the eco does contain all that good bacteria so those tanks get a boost since that's been added. I don't think in any of your tanks the filter media itself is the major source of your biofilter but I could be wrong.

So to answer your question, yes I thing in MOST CASES you have a healthy planted tank you could take the anaerobic issue and put it with the cycling issue. It just isn't much of a factor, but it's not to say it wouldn't be if the power wasn't out longer.

My Scapes

Ok tetratech,

So, taking all your points, and not really having a chemical explanation (I don't have one either), let us conclude the following:

When it comes to properly maintained (regular water changes etc) medium to well planted tanks, a power outage of 24h (rounding to a day) will not cause any harm to the tank (with regards to Anaerobic Bacteria), even with a stocking scheme on the high end of the tolerance scale, no matter what the filter type and size is.

And as a side note, if the filter fails because of malfunction and not a power outage, having the lights on at their normal cycle should help as it encourages the oxygen production via plants.

Pretty different from the global statement that cannister filters produce fatal amounts of Anaerobic Bacteria when turned off for an hour or so. Can you imagine that I rushed my water changes all these months because just draining my tank, including vacuuming and making sure that I don't suck up any fry, takes a good hour and a half.

Thanks,

Ingo

PS: Now - if anyone has a different opinion, speak now or hold your breath forever

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

BTW - There's a difference here between getting algae problems and fish problems with the canister turned off. I didn't expect you to have algae problems in the 125g (I know no tank did) because of the canister being off (Picture of Nowher in a dark trench coat, putting tetra against the wall). In my mind it simply wasn't enough of a bio difference to make that happen, not to say that a longer outage would have not caused algae and other problems. More filtration mass is still better in terms of waste control. Waste control is algae control.

My Scapes

I think you two have hashed this out pretty well. I guess I can only add a blanket statement, that I think a lot of common knowledge about aquaria is based on information and techniques before people started with the heavily planted tanks which were kept extremely healthy and relatively algae free. I don't think anaerobic bacteria is a myth. Take a spare tank and fill it with a 4 inch sand bed and no MTS, then just stir things up after a year and see what comes out. I'm sure it happens, I just think that the common knowledge and advice hasn't adjusted to somewhat of a new piece of an already established hobby, that is, heavily planted healthy tanks.

So, I can absolutely see why the fish had no problems, because as tetra said, even if they plants got a little light, they still photosynthesized and produced a little O2. Even if they didn't, we do blackouts for three or four days without any plant photosynthesizing and the fish are fine. That means there's already plenty of O2 in the water, and that enough O2 comes from the surface area of the tank.

That doesn't necessarily explain, though, why the filter, with presumably a ton of bacteria and only a few liters of water, didnt have a ton of bacteria die off and anaerobic growth. The only explanation I have is that the water was saturated with enough O2 to hold them off for a few days. If it had gone a week the story could be different.

And to make an example for this point, I shall now share an totally embarassing NowherMan6 story to lighten the mood. As you both know, I tore down the 46. What you DON'T know, is that I forgot to tear down the cannister filter for 2+ weeks after. So there was that cannister filter, sitting there filled with water, with no movement to and from a tank. Basically the same conditions as LFs filter, but for 6X as long a period. So when I opened it up - SULFER. The whole thing had to be tossed. Bleach wouldn't even get rid of the smell. Now, I've read that anaerobic basteria smells like sulfer, and this was pungent. But the point is, you see what happened. That was what you expected to happen to your filters, but if the water is O2 rich enough to begin with, maybe we can make the conclusion that, in the case of a healthy planted tank, that you have a day or two of time before things go sour in the filter, while still maintaining the popular notion that things still CAN turn bad in the filter given an extended period of time when compared to lightly planted or unplanted tank filters. Anyway, that's all I have on the subject, I think you two have been thorough enough so far

(Picture of Nowher in a dark trench coat, putting tetra against the wall

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Back in the saddle!

Nice way to kinda end the thread. I basically agree with what you said. Of course if you leave a dirty filter sitting there for that period of time, the anaerobic will produce that what is it sulferic gas/acid.

I just think that the common knowledge and advice hasn't adjusted to somewhat of a new piece of an already established hobby, that is, heavily planted healthy tanks.

.

Yes that's the point. That's why I mentioned the cycling thing as well(Bensaf has always stated). There really is no cycling issue in a heavily planted tank. Any small spike should be controlled.

LF, if you look at your tanks. The 20 and 29 are low-tech, medium light (2.0wpg and 2.2wpg) at best and you don't really have algae issues to speak of. The 125g and 40g can both be considered hight light (3.1wpg and 2.4wpg CF light) and there is where you have your algae issues. It's usually too much light that fuels the growth of algae to undesirable levels. It's debatable wether the 40 is high-light. I know you were considering even more light on the tank, but what do you really have in there now. You have mostly slow growers with some acclimating ground cover. I know there are only otos in there, but there are plenty of organics in the water (decaying plants, food) to develop algae issues. Your biofilter took a big hit when you removed all that plant mass. It was I who suggested doing the tank over in phases, but nooooooo Jersey boy. Isn't it enough that you got the Giants and the Jets. See I'm no plant geek

My Scapes

Hi,
*my two cents*

In my reading and experience (life in the North East and
frequent blackouts from storms, squirrels
across transformer terminals, hurricanes, etc), I've found
that I have never had a problem with any of my tanks when
the power was returned. All of my tanks have always been
lightly stocked, and all I have tried to do is maintain
some sort of control of how fast they cooled, if the
blackout occurred during the winters.

What I've read and discovered is that the bulk of the
bacteria that manages the Nitrogen Cycle is in the tank.
The colonies live on the surfaces of virtually every grain
of gravel as well as on the surfaces inside the tank.
Yes, the aerobic bacteria colonies inside the
filters can suffer or even die, and when the power
comes on a "slug" of "bad" water could come through the
return hose to the tank, but (depending upon the tank
and its inhabitants) the tank can easily handle it.

Frank


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