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hi im setting up as tank and want to raise the Kh in the water. the tap water here has a very low calcium hardness- the test changed to its final coulour on the first drop.

my research so far indicates adding bicarbonate of soda will raise the levels and was just looking for any advice before firing the stuff in! is this the best solution or should i put shells in the filter or something totally different?

any advice appreciated

I was also told to add the bicarbonate of soda in my Snail tank, so i'll increase the calcium hardness, that is good for their shells.

Shells are also good, but i just put them in the tank & not in the filter........

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I don't think I am mistaken here, but Bicarbonate Of Soda, aka Baking Soda or Sodium bicarbonate - being NaHCO3 - does not contain any calcium.

In a planted tank, it is used to raise the KH (Carbonate Hardness) in order to allow a tank to store more CO2 with less of a drop in ph.

Calcium, on the other hand is influencing the GH (known as General or German - or similar - Hardness). I add Seachem Equilbirium to my tanks to raise the GH, it contains other goodies as well - in particular Potassium. There are specific chemicals for raising just the calcium level, but I am no expert on these.

One thing seems for sure though, adding baking soda to your tanks will not add any calcium.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I thought kh tests only test for calcium carbonate which would be a measure of the amount of calcium in the tank. If baking soda raises a kh test then it has to be doing something with calcium in the tank. Might actually be making it less useable for the snails. Reason I suggest adding liquid calcium supplements to a snail tank. It's definitely useable and not that expensive but sometimes hard to find. Baking soda only seems to help snails because the raise in ph keeps their shells from being eroded. Which is good but they also need calcium to build those shells in the first place.

Adding shells, coral, limestone, or any other such things does add calcium and raise the ph through calcium carbonate. However it's not a controlled raise. You could end up with a ph of 8 before it's done. Unless your doing a cichlid, snail only tank, or other setup you actualy want a ph around 8 then it's better to add baking soda at a controlled amount to each water change or use a powdered carbonate supplement. I have kent ph stable: http://www.kentmarine.com/freshwater/buffers-and-ph/ph-stable.htm

Hi,
Baking Soda will raise the KH of the tank and not affect
the other parameters ('cept pH) because the two are
related.
I don't see how big a tank we are talking about, so
I'd try a 1/2 teaspoon full, let disolve and circulate,
and test (KH) after about an hour. Adding more each
hour until you reach a KH of 3-4.

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

If you wish to use the shells/shell grit, as I have several, place a small amount in the toe of a panty hose tie it with a piece of nylon fishing line in the tank. By doing it this way you can adjust the amount and the time required to correct your peramiters you require.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

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brilliant thanks for that- the ph is a bit low in the tap water so it shouldnt be a problem raising it a bit though i dont want to raise either too much as i am aiming to keep mostly tetra, i just want a little better buffering capacity as i had a problem in a seperate tank with a ph change.
i do have some limestone i was considering putting in tho would prefer not to as i wanted something i could control. i will try with the baking soda and let you know how i get on. the tank is almost ready to go- i finally got everything tho i have had 3 light bulbs brokern in transit on seperate occasions so im going to have to go on a big drive to pick them up myself as im sick of sending brokern ones back! then i can start to get a hold of some plants!

fandan,

How low is your ph? I would assume that nothing bad would happen to your tetras if it is even 6, given that you acclimate them to the tank slowly (about 2 hours). Probably 5 would not hurt them either, but I seriously doubt that your tab ph is that low, or is it?

Well, instead of me guessing, why don't you just tell us what the tab ph is,

And, what is the tank size? I have a tab ph of 7 and KH of about max. 1dH. For my 40G I add 1tsp of Baking Soda and for my 125G I add a good 2tsp. Do I have to add it to avoid a ph crash (both are CO2 injected)? No, not at all, but it makes me feel better

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

okey albury tap water:
ph6.6 - 6.8
1>dKh
2>dGh

there is a wee dfrought on here and the dam the water comes from is about 1% capacity so the water is of varying quality- you have to check for ammonia before putting any in your tank!

i figure it would be better to add some bicarbonate of soda, if it not going to do any harm. (between 3and 4? -cheers frank!).

let me know what you think! oh yeah sorry LF i should have put the parameters straight up- its 4 ft by 18inch by 14inch and its got about 3 inches of substrate (2 of jbl and 1-1.5 of gravel). it been sitting for some 8 weeks with water in (which i sprinkled fish food from time to time) although i only recently added the heater and the filter. it has only stones and driftwood and 6 stems of hornwart in at the moment. i dont know if its cycled as i dont have test kits for nitrates or nitrites (yet) only ammonia.

it will be a while before i can add any fish anyway as i have had problems with my lighting (keep getting delivered brokern bulbs!) which i need to sort out and then i intend to add a whole load of amazon swords and other plants before finally adding the tetra.

its a slow process- things keep getting brokern- it took 7 or 8 weeks for the filter to be delivered! due to having to return it with a brokern globe. then the cars clutch cable burnt out which is taking up my money at the moment and it looks like their might be the pad of tiny feet (other then the two new kittens!) around the house which is costing a fortune in scans and specialist visits!

anyway im ranting- what do you think of the bicarbonate of soda and do you think i should add some danios or something to help cycle?

edit: having added a wee spoon of bicarb soda the parameters are:
temp 27.2
ph 6.9
Gh 13
Kh 2
ammonia 0
i reckon ther is about 45 gallons taking into account the drift wood+ substrate.

fandan,

I think you made a mistake somewhere here:

"okey albury tap water: - 2>dGh"

then:

"having added a wee spoon of bicarb soda the parameters are: - Gh 13"

If you didn't switch from first giving us a value in dH to later giving us a value in ppm, this is impossible. And even if that is what happened, it seems highly unlikely that 13ppm would be there now, as that would mean you have a GH reduction by over 50%.

So, what's going on here?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

oh yeah sorry LF i didnt mention that when i filled the tank a couple of months ago i added water conditioner.

hence Gh 13!

yeah that would look quite confusing

oh yeah sorry LF i didnt mention that when i filled the tank a couple of months ago i added water conditioner.

Now here is a simple question (that may or may not require a simple answer):

Why did you add the conditioner that influences the GH and why, after a few months, is it still there?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

i added it roughly when i filled the tank up as i would with my other tanks, then i adjusted it to around 10-12 when i installed the filter for the simple reason being that i run my other tanks at 10-12 Gh.

i am debating adding some danios to help cycle the tank.
does this have any relivence to the Kh or is there something im missing?

Hi,
It seems to me that I'd attempt to keep the various
water parameters near what the fish in the various tanks
prefer.
6-11DGH = 100-200ppm and is suited for fish such
as swordtails, guppies, mollies, and goldfish.
11-22DGH = 200-400ppm and is suited for Rift Lake Cichlids,
goldfish and brackish water fish.

I don't belive that high a GH would suit the Danios you
mentioned.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I don't belive that high a GH would suit the Danios you mentioned.

Not only that, the general thought these days is that plants will fair much better in a low GH.

KH - carbonate hardness - is different, the cross point between KH and ph will tell you how much CO2 you have in the water.

But back to the original thoughts I had: If you added that GH booster a couple of months ago, why is it still so high? Did you never perform a water change?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

okey so a bit lower for the danios. no worries
i had gone for 10-12 by taking roughly the middle point of the 5-20 reccomended in the danio profile.

as for the conditioner- i put it in when i first put water into the tank, maybe two months ago and again when i added the filter when i changed about 50percent of the water as i had to move the whole set up a little further from the wall when i added the backdrop and hosing.

other then that i havent bothered with any water changes as i havent had anything in the tank.

sorry to confuse!

im hoping to sort out the lights this week, then the plants.

so what do you reccomend - a water change to lower the gh and add a little more baking soda?

fandan,

If you don't want to keep messing with the GH all the time (and I thing there is no need what-so-ever to do so) then have a water change before adding any fish. This way you can adjust them to the more consistent GH that this tank will have over time (as you sooner or later will have to do water changes anyway).

There is no need to mess with the KH, except if you were planning to run CO2.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

righto mate cheers.

what do you think of adding a few fish to help cycle or do i need to add the plants first?

what do you think of adding a few fish to help cycle or do i need to add the plants first?

I personally would add the plants first, this way you don't have to restrict yourself during the planting and worry about another thing, namely fish, besides the job at hand.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club