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is that just one of those cheapie corner filters that you put wool and carbon inside and it sits in the corner of those tank?

also how do you count the bubbles?

sorry if im asking dumb questions but DIY is all new to me!

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi,
"Counting the bubbles" is only necessary in a bottled gas
system. In a DIY system, you have no way to regulate the
amount of gas delivered to the tank. There is no regulator.
Therefore, there is no sense in trying to count bubbles.

This is one of the drawbacks of a DIY system, especially
one that uses 2 liter plastic bottles and yeast/sugar as
the generator. When properly mixed, and capped off,
the production of CO2 is very high. Then, as the brew
changes to alcohol, the CO2 drops off to nothing. A fresh
mix and new bottle must be started, and the old bottle
removed, washed out, and a new batch of mix prepared.
Meanwhile, if you were in the tank, the result would be
a surge of CO2 and then a gradual tapering of to nearly
nothing (provided the tank owner is "johnny on the spot"
followed by another surge. Kind of like a sine wave.

Any attempts to regulate this type of CO2 generator will
accumulate pressures within the 2 liter bottle great
enough to actually cause the bottle to split open or
force leaks at any tubing joints. THE main leak is the
weak point of the generator, the point where the air tubing
enters the bottle, the bottle cap. Leaks here can be
minimized by holding the cap stationary, and not flexing
the tubing while turning the bottle only during the
changing process.

For larger aquariums one must have two or more actively
producing bottles all connected to the same air stone or
reactor to produce enough CO2 to even make a dent in the
CO2 saturation. This means that the task of producing
CO2 constantly for the plants, becomes a CHORE and
eventually becomes a LABOR.

Frank

PS... To me, DIY CO2 should be tried by anyone who is
serious about keeping all kinds of plants, in bright light,
to see if it does actually make a difference in their
plants (it does). Then, if it does, and it will, they
should start saving their change and $$ for a bottled
system, and convert over. Once the initial purchase is
made (regulator, bubble counter, reactor or diffuser, and
tank) the only reoccurring expense is the recharge of the
bottle. That takes minutes, and in my area costs $9 and
some change (tax). I recharge my bottle every 6 months.



-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

IMO a bubble counter can be useful as it tells you when your batch is ready to go and you can be bit more "johnny on the spot" as Frank said. On my 38 I had two 2 liter bottles running on alternate weekly cycles. Meaning I'd change one every week regardless. This way I didn't need to know how much was being produced, because I wasn't trying to get max life out of each bottle, but max production instead. My tank reached proper EI saturation of CO2 consistantly(30ppm). It can be done, and done well. I switched because it was a hassle like Frank said. Now I'm livin the easy life.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I changed the bottle after a little over a week when it was still producing the same amount of co2 so there was no drop. Just mix up in a 2nd bottle before your 1st one starts to get low wait a day or 2 to get the 2nd bottle going and then switch. It provides pretty much constant co2. There are charts to help determine the co2 concentration by the resulting ph and kh in your tank. Doesn't work so accurately for me so I just go by how the plants and fish look. If you don't have enough experience to judge that very well then you might be better off with a more stable co2 system. I was just bored and thought I'd try setting up a cheap diy system again. If I have any trouble I'd rather go back to running my tank with no co2 than put out the money and effort to get a bottled system running. I don't care to make my plants grow as fast as possible just to have plants without too much algae and I had already accomplished that. The co2 is just fun to play around with when I'm bored and as a plus I end up with a few extra plants I can sell to the lfs due to the increased growth. Now if only someone bought duckweed.... I can generate 4cups of the stuff every 24hours.

The corner filter I have is just something I picked up for less than $5 at petco as a backup. It's by penn plax and they call it a "clear free air cartridge corner filter" http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/3%5C3017239104B.jpg Might be a bit large for a 20 but works great behind the crypts in the 55. Try to count those bubbles lol If I had a better camera I'd get a pic but it's a constant stream of such small bubbles you have to lean up against the glass to see it.

im yet to make the reactor but have got the gravel vac tube (may be a bit on the big side for a 20 but will give it a go!) and a pump .. so am gng to try n get it all put together this weekend..

what i want to know is the one that i left on my practise tank seems to be creating alot of co2 and it has been there for 3-4 weeks now.

does the mixture ever turn to a toxic form or would it still be safe to keep this in a tank ?

edit: sorry just remembered i have an UGF tube would that be better than using a gravel cleaner part?

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Something I don't think anyone else has talked about is the temp of your brew. Too hot and it will kill the yeast and too cold it will not activate. I think you want the water to be about 80-100F If I remember right.

When i was doing DIY CO2 on my 40G I had 3 bottles going at one time and I changed one out every week to keep in all consistent.

I really liked using the Coralife Limewood Air stone. They make really small bubles.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

im hoping my room temp will be fine! i cant think of any other way other than to keep it out of the sun (which it will be) to control temp!

so if i make up 2 bottles at the same time, hook one up to the tank and just cap the other one and change them over weekly that should be fine?

it doesnt go toxic ?

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi carpe_diem

The DIY will work in your tank, as it's 20G which I was told is about the maximum size you can do DIY with. I was trying it with a 43.5G tank & I had two bottles running constantly, seemed to be always mixing up the spare & like Frank said, it became a CHORE. No matter what I did, my C02 level was never high enough & I was later told that my tank was really too big to run C02 - but a 20G should be fine. If you're getting 3-4 weeks from one mixture, you are doing really well. I have some links at work with info on DIY & recipes. I'll send them to you tomorrow.

I'm with you about pressurised C02 being quite pricey here in Aus, especially when you buy through a LFS. If you ever tire of mixing the yeast mixture, here is an on-line supplier for a reasonably priced regulator. The link wouldn't work, so copy & paste this www.aquarium products.com.au/prod1254.htm in your web browser. You'll also need to take out the space between the words "aquarium" and "products" to make it work. You can buy the bubble counter & gas bottle here for a lot less that in store too. You can also rent the gas bottles from BOC and that works out fairly cheap. Only problem is they are a bit large & may not fit in all cupboards. If you rent from BOC, you will also need to make sure that the thread on the regulator is "standard Australian thread" but I already checked with Ben (the owner) and his regulators meet the standard (but check for yourself - don't rely on me). BOC tell me though, they sell thread convertors anyway, so if you end up stuck with the wrong thread, you can buy the convertor & you'll be ok. (Check this out for yourself though.) I think you need to always make sure it is AUS standard thread (or buy the convertor) anyway, otherwise you'll probably find your supplier won't be able to fill it for you. Before you buy a gas bottle of your own, make sure there is somewhere near you that will fill it for you. There are only a few LFS who do this & luckily there are 2 nearby me. BOC will not fill up bottles that they don't rent (so that's not an option) and I don't think we have the same situation as our US friends, where the local welding shop will fill it for us. I think a brewery shop may do so, but I didn't find one of them nearby.

Another tip is to look out on ebay. The systems don't come up often, but very occasionally they do. I have 3 gas bottles now - one of them I bought brand new & I have 2 spares I bought on ebay. Set up a search on ebay to send you an email alert for C02 systems that come up. The search can be set to last for a year, so just be patient and something will probably come up. With my 2nd spare bottle, I also got the regulator, bubble counter, tubing - everthing I need if I decide to set up another C02 tank and all much cheaper than I would have paid on-line or in store. So, if you're patient & prepared to wait your time, you might just score a system cheaper than you think.

Anyway, I hope you have fun with DIY



Cheers
TW

im hoping my room temp will be fine!

Not so much your room temp but the temp of the water when you mix everything.

just cap the other one

I would say to put a cap on the spare but not too tight as it will build pressure and posibly blow up.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

thanks for your advice everyone!

found this diffuser on ebay and was wondering if it would be easier than making one?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CO2-Carbon-Dioxide-Diffuser-Dispenser-Aquarium-fish_W0QQitemZ120053152121QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20756QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi carpe_diem

Here are some links that others here at FP shared with me when I was researching C02, firstly as DIY & later as the full system. I hope they might help you somewhat.

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/night.html

http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html
http://www.ausdiscus.com.au/fertilisation.html
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

Finally below is a link about when I was thinking of renting the bottles from BOC, so it talks about the price. This was earlier this year, so the prices shouldn't be too far out of date. Renting isn't a bad option to start with - just to decide if you like using C02 or not. This isn't in my thread, but I think you could rent on a daily, monthly or yearly basis - so you don't have to make a long rental committment to them. A cheap way to "try before you buy".
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/27605.1.htm?0.6122833#249476

Cheers
TW

thanks will check those links out!

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

carpe_diem

We must have been posting at the same time, so I didn't see yours first. I don't have experience with the one you linked to, but I guess it should work. I hope others can pipe in with advice.

Did you set up this as repeating search? If you did, you might eventually find a pressurised C02 system come up. I still have my search saved & it quite regularly brings up the item you showed. This saved search found me a a 2nd hand fully pressurised system at less than half the cost, as the owner was going overseas. As said, those don't come up often, but occasionally they do. (I've only seen 2 or 3 this whole year). If you set up the saved search - you don't have to waste your time checking for them. You'll receive an email alert when someone is selling a C02 item.

I saved 2 versions of the search, in case people used either the number zero or alpha O in the word C02.

Good luck & have fun.

Cheers
TW

so if i make up 2 bottles at the same time, hook one up to the tank and just cap the other one and change them over weekly that should be fine?

Very very bad idea. For one it won't work cause both bottles should run out at the same time. Even if it's not hooked up to a tank the yeast will eat the sugar, produce co2, and actually alcohol. Some people have found ways to create alcoholic beverages out of their co2 units using yeast designed for making wine or beer and other ingredients besides sugar and water. Eventually the level of alcohol is too high and the ph of the solution becomes too acidic for the yeast to multiply, plus they eat all the sugar, and that's when you have to change the bottles for new water and sugar. So leaving a bottle sit for weeks in any conditions except maybe the fridge is going to cause it to run out the same as the bottle hooked to the tank. 2nd problem has to do with the first. Even when not hooked up to the tank the yeast produces co2 and eventually you get one spectacular explosion if you leave the cap on. I've even heard of glass containers exploding from the pressure inside. You'll spend the next 2months trying to the get the smell out of the room. You have to start the next bottle a few days before you want to replace your current bottle. You want just enough time for the yeast to start producing co2 before you switch.

Currently I'm still on my 2nd bottle of co2 and I had to point the spraybar up a little because I was dissolving close to 40ppm co2 into my 55g with one bottle. I have mine sitting on my pc lights. When they come on they heat the bottle up and I get more co2 and when they go off the bottle cools to around 68F like the apartment and there isn't much co2. Maybe that's why it's lasting so well.

was just scrolling through those links robyn and they are very informative and ive just found an easier way to make the reactor!

thanks for your replies sham..ill def remember not to make it to early before i swap it over!

just wondering if something does go wrong with this system will my fish be fine?

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

In a small 10g test tank I managed to overflow a diy co2 mixture into the tank bad enough to kill off everything overnight. The water became acidic enough it really stung some scratches I had on my hand when I reached in to see if the amazon sword survived. Luckily because I planned to experiment there were no fish in the tank. Mostly just plants and some snails. In a larger tank with a properly sized co2 reactor and under usual circumstances mistakes seem to rarely result in the loss of any aquarium inhabitants. You just get a cloudy, odd smelling tank for awhile and have to do lots of water changes to clear it. Still a good idea to take all precautions possible such as using check valves and not filling the container too full so it won't flow into the tank when the yeast really starts to multiply.

I'm glad the links helped you out & gave you an idea for an easier reactor.

Sham gives good advice about the check valve. Even though I knew about why these are good ideas, when I was running DIY C02, I didn't put one on the air line. Even though I had the C02 bottle sitting on top of the aquarium, it managed to defy gravity & started draining the tank. The water flowed into the light fitting. We have a safety cut off switch wired into the house electricity, so the power to the house shorted out. I also had a bit of mess to clean up. So remember to use a check valve.

When you are done, you should post pictures of your tank so we can all admire your increased growth

Cheers
TW

I just checked out one of the links I gave you & I can't get it to work. It's the one giving advice about whether to use C02 at night. It's acting very strange. No matter how I try to edit the post, the link you are seeing looks like this:-

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/night.html which just plain doesn't work.

It should read:-

www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/night.html

If you're interested in reading it, copy & paste that in your web browser & the link works just fine.

Cheers
TW