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Having just read a reply stating add more Flourish Excel to help remove algae. I am wondering for how long and how do you calculate how much and how often.

At the moment in the Betta 11G tank I am using.
1ml Flourish Excel each day.
1ml " Potassium three time a week
.5 " Nnitrogen three times a week.

These calculations were made for me by Seachem

I dont want to remove it 100% otherwise no algae for the Ottos.

Since adding the Excel each day the algae is going down on the rocks and DW but is still on all the young Crypt nevilii and the Hygrophila polysperma but not as much as previously.

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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Well Excel won't kill all algaes but seems to be very effective against Beard Algae and Staghorn. BTW Ottos won't touch either of these algaes so I wouldn't worry about starving them.

Usually add 2-3 times the label dosage for a week to treat algae. You should see it turn red and die off.

Keep up with dosing of other nutrients as the Excel is a good growth booster and nutrient availability has to keep up with it.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Keith,

Besides what Bensaf said, here is my process:

Tank size: 125G - so yours would be a 10th of the following amounts
After 50% Water Change - Add 50ml of Excel
For the next 6 Days - Add 20ml of Excel

I only once had a larger sized issue with BBA once and the first signs (redding) were visible after 3 days. After 1 week it was gray, aka dead. I found Excel inefficient for any other form of algae, but some people report that injecting Excel directly into the groups of Staghorn gives maximum exposure to that area and it would die (haven't tried that myself).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just a potential warning. Some slightly more sensitive fish I had in the 90g(mostly panda cories) couldn't handle 2x the recommended dose of excel. Despite the fact I had no trouble with that dose in the past after a few tests of increasing and lowering the dose I definitely found it not only negatively affected the pandas but several showed up dead with no real symptoms. They seemed to get lethargic and just sit around in the little cory cave instead of zipping around the tank and substrate all day. That's about the only symptom but it matched the timing of increases in excel dosage so perfectly that I can't believe it wasn't at least partially responsible. I didn't have otos in the tank at the time but I question the safety of a 3x dose with otos.

sham,

Good point, I haven't thought about that. It seems very possible to me that this was more than a coincidence as Excel is a pretty strong substance.

I can add (sorry that I forgot about this earlier) that Excel also has negative effects on certain plants, the ones I know of are in the Egeria family, nemly Najas and Densa. They tend to start to melt when Excel is dosed.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have been using Excel with our planted Discus tank at work. I found that when I started off heavy with the Excel I melted all of the Val. in the tank. All the fish did just fine. Now I don't even measure the stuff I just dump some in.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wow! I never even thought of Excel as the reason my pandas started dying! In my 10g I was using Excel at the regular dose until I started having BBA issues, then I started upping the dose, slowly so as to not cause stress and all of a sudden my Betta lost his tail, overnight it seemed and while I was treating that 2 of my pandas showed up dead. I was unsure as to whether I should dose the excel during the treatment so it was hit and miss until I stopped altogether. I haven't added excel to that tank sine before the CO2 went in. Though they did seem fine at the standard dose. As did the betta, his tail loss has been guessed at but never really figured out. BTW the otos in that tank went clamped at about the same time and have only just come unclamped, this could be a sign of oto's not liking Excel, I'm not sure about that though.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Thank you for all that info. I have in the Betta tank 5 otos, 5 khuli loaches, 1 M Betta, 10 cardinal tetras and still the small Clown loach.

To be on the safe side If I use 2ml every day for the next two weeks then revert back to 1ml each day how does this sound?

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Sounds like some people are adding 2 + 2 and coming up with an answer of 17.

I've used the triple dose of Excel in the past and have never had a problem with fish, including more "sensitive" ones like Ottos, Rams and Rummies.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thank you Bernard that is exactly what I was wanting. I knew you would reply when you saw my reply.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

As I said earlier. I just dump it in the discus tank at work. No problems other than melting the Val off the bat. They are coming back though. Not that I like the plant....

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19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Until I tested it myself I said it was all coincidence and I've used excel just fine with no fish deaths but then odd things happened with the panda cories.

The pandas lived in the tank just fine for 3months with no excel and for 5months at a regular dose of excel. When the dose was increased to 2x within about 2-3days the pandas acted a bit odd and lethargic. Another 3 days later a panda was found dead with no injuries. The other fish were fine. The next day another panda was dead also. Dosage of everything was stopped incase something was causing problems. Pandas resumed acting normally within 48hours. Fertilizers were then added a different one per week with no difference in the pandas. I figured they'd been sick with something or were weaker ones.

Excel was again moved up to 2x dose. Within 3 days of excel being added at the high dose the pandas acted odd. When the dose was backed off they were normal. A 3rd attempt at 2x excel resulted in another panda dead. No excel was added for 2months with no sign of illness in the pandas. Thinking nah it can't be the excel I decided to repeat it the 4th time and again they all acted odd and a panda showed up dead. No excel has gone into the tank since then and the remaining 4 pandas are fine.

I say a potential warning because no I can't say for certain the pandas died from the use of excel but I find their ill health and deaths to correspond too closely with the increase in excel dosage to just write it all off as coincidence.

I have kept spawning pandas in the past while simultaneously dosing excel for BBA, and while the treatment regretfully did not work as I'd hoped, the fish were fine, fry included.

Sham's observation appears to be more than a coincidence and as such should be taken seriously, even if all otheres (including myself) never had an issue with fish loss during increased Excel dosage treatment .

If I remember that right then it was us hobbyists that pointed out to Seachem that Excel has this side effect on Algae. This, in my eyes, shows how little is known by the company with regards to the effects of this product on a planted tank.

I can imagine (no facts to back it up though) two scenarios that may have caused sham to have fish loss:

1) Just like the Egeria species melts away when Excel is overdosed, maybe there are other plant species that attempt to fend off Excel by excreeting some poisenous substance.

2) Excel could potentially react with other tank media and having enough Excel could also create a poisenous soup. The substrate comes to mind here. Maybe even in combination with just the right layer of mulm.

Just thinking,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'd take an educated guess at Sham's problem.

Excel has some ingredients that will de-oxidise a tank to a certain extent. That's the main reason why dosing Excel in a Co2 injected tank will cause pearling to greatly reduce or stop altogether.

I'd say Sham's problems were due to a lack of oxygen from the Excel dosing rather then any ingredient in the Excel as such. How well a tank is saturated with O2 varies from tank to tank depending on a number of factors.

Pandas are sensitive and like cooler well oxygenated waters. The Excel probably dropped the O2 level below their comfort zone. It would explain the lethargy.

If my theory is correct running an airstone while dosing the excel should solve the problem.

LF, in either of your theories was there a grassy knoll

Sorry, couldn't resist, mein kinder

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Excel will also wreck havoc on Anacharis, so if you have any in your tank I would be careful. My Anacharis looked like it had been in a war zone after standard Excel dosing for a week. I backed off and it recovered.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Not to be a stickler, but in cases of deoxygenation, pandas would be the LAST fish to die off. With the astrobes, plecs, and other callys, they are able to process atmospheric oxygen to a certain extent, and thus, when the dry season hits, they are usually the last few species remaining in the sun baked charcos.

I don't want to be a stinker either , but Anacharis is Egeria, or Elodea as it is called as well.

Bensaf - nice of you to call me your child, or children (as you used the plural) . But I have no idea what a "grassy knoll" is. All I found was that it is some form of hill, please explain (sorry to spoil the joke).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I don't want to be a stinker either, but Anacharis is Egeria, or Elodea as it is called as well.

Sorry, I'm not as studied up on the scientific names of these plants as you and Master Bensaf are. Suffice it say..."I'm not worthy, I'm not worhty."

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

LF,

Grassy knoll is a reference to the conspiracies surrounding the JFKennedy assasination. According to some accounts there was a second shooter on a grassy knoll on the other side of Kennedy's car who actually delivered the fatal shot. In any case, it's a reference to outlandish conspiracy theories.

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Back in the saddle!