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Nice clean photos.

The Four Leaf Clover will spread better if you break it down to smaller chunks and spread it around.

Also if you want to keep your Lilly under water you should trim off the floaters. If you let them go you might have all floaters in no time.

Thanks for sharing the pictures!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

lysaer,

Nice picture taking

The tank looks pretty good so far. I would assume that you eventually will find which of the plants that you currently have in the tank work for you and start to focus on these in larger quanities. IMHO, tanks that contain too many plant species tend to look "unorganized". I know it is hard to understand what I mean by this, so let me know if you wish me to elaborate.

A few comments on the plant shots:

- The swords in there will develop a rather large root system and the part above the substrate will also become big. Keep that in mind when considering the plants around them as they will be shaded.
- The red thin leaved one, isn't that Myrophyllum or something like that (I suck when it comes to names)? It will be a magnet for gunk.
- Is that algae on the Four Leaf Clover (4LC)? I would trim these parts off as soon as you can.
- I think your other red plant is an Alternanthera Reineckii. If you trim it frequently and replant the tops while maintaining the bottoms then this plant can develop into a great group of accent reds.
- What is the plant that you have tied to the top of the cave?

About fast growers: Not all stems grow equally fast and even if they do they don't have the same "nutrient sucking" attributes. For example, Ludwigia Repens, under good conditions, grows pretty fast but will do little to help you during the stabilization phase of the tank. On the other hand, plants like Wisteria and Water Sprite will help a lot. They are also usually more easily accessible in LFSs and cost less.

Hope this makes sense and helps a little,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Lysaer after a week you should go in and cut the tops off all the four leaf clover (Marsilea quadrifolia)as it grown emerged in the water as to it be submersed as it is now. The only reason for this makes it easier to ship.

Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams

I would love to know who your plant supplier was. Looks like you have an awesome selection there. It looks really good.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Florida Driftwood on DJRitchie's recommendation. I got their $43 assortment package and they gave me a really good startup set.

Listen! Do you smell that?

Looks like you're off to a great start.

Other than the little bit of collectoritis going on with the many different types of plants, I think it will do nicely. Once you see what will grow nicely and what you may not care for, it will be easy to pick a few plants to dominate your setup.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

And just to answer everybody's comments about having so many different types of plants, I actually like it that way. I'm just getting into this, and that's what I wanted to start out with. I have about 15 or 16 different actual plants in there, and I'll be adding java moss to cover the log (and driftwood when I either find some I like and/or win this ebay auction).

I like the mix of different plants, and I did order an assortment package for a reason. There's only one or two in there that I don't like in -this- tank...but that may change as the plants grow in and out. I do have another tank project that will get started in a couple of months and overgrowth/plants I decide don't fit in this tank will get moved to that tank to get it started.

Listen! Do you smell that?

I rearranged things a little bit...pulled one of the apongetons out for the roomie's new 10g hex betta tank, and a couple of the crystal vals, and then rearranged the rocks and plants. Also found some driftwood that I'm prepping to add to the tank. Picture of it pre-soaking.

















Listen! Do you smell that?

wow, looking good, love the co2 system..AWSOME!!!


"The Earth is God's Fish Tank"

wow, looking good, love the co2 system..AWSOME!!!

- That's air, isn't it?

Anyway, seems like a nice piece of driftwood. Where did you find it (or buy it)? And what are the plans with regards to placement?

I like the look of the tank a little better, does it only appear as if there are less species in there now? One word of caution: Albeit looks play the most important role in a planted tank (at least for nerds like me), working on them in the settlement phase of the tank may not be the best move. It will take the plants some time to settle and even if it doesn't look all full and such it may be best to let the tank stabilize before moving things around too often. Believe me, I know how hard that is for the owner, but it may be for the better.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

do i see an albino tiger barb in there?


33 gallon 7 neon tetras-5 platys-3 bleeding heart tetras-2 corys-1 rainbow shark-2 L83 gibby plecos

Ingo:

Silver's referring to the DIY CO2 I was talking about in chat that night when he commented. It's not in the pictures but the setup is in the tank now.

And there are no fewer species of plants in there, they're just grouped differently. The only reason I rearranged this soon was because I wanted to place the plants better before they started growing in fuller, while it was still easier to move them. Certain plants like the giant hydro and the crystal vals are growing very fast already, so I wanted to rearrange them before they got too difficult to move. The only plant that's "missing" from the tank is the whatever-it-was-grass-type-ground-cover that I had tied to the cave. I removed it and planted it along the very front edge of the tank, in front of the swords and tiger lotus. You can't see it in the pictures because it's mostly covered by gravel (advised planting method).

ETA: Oh, and the drftwood placement I haven't decided yet. It'll be a couple weeks, because I found the wood down by our lake. So it needs a lot of prep before it can go in the tank. Plus, I have another piece I'm getting off ebay, and I have to decide which piece is going in the tank if either, or both, or if I'm going to wait and put them in the 75.

Platy: You possibly see two albino tiger barbs. I have a school of 7 tb's - 3 regular, 2 albino, 2 green.

Listen! Do you smell that?

lysaer,

I assume that you know that your bubble wand is counter-productive to your CO2 DIY system. The rising air, with the consequent surface agitation, will remove quite a bit of the CO2 that you inject. Not that this could not be done anyway, but you should keep this loss in mind when evaluating the amount of CO2 that you put in the tank, meaning you sure need more to reach the same effect than if you had no bubble wand.

I raised that question before, but with regards to your "whatever-it-was-grass-type-ground-cover" plant: I have never seen this plant before and would be very curious to learn its name. I am always on the lookout for some new interesting plants.

About the driftwood: good that you want to take your time before adding it, proper treatment makes the chances of accidentally introducing a "bug" into the tank much less likely. BTW, when I was on the hunt for local driftwood, the people here at FP suggested to only use wood that has been submersed in the local water for at least a year.

Have fun,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Like I said before, the bubble wall was put back in the tank to acclimate the fish and each week the airlow to it gets turned down. The first day in the new tank without the bubble wall the fish were at the surace quite a bit gasping for air. They were used to a lot more aeration in the tank, between having the HOB filter, the bubble wall at full steam, and the UGF's. The bubble wall will come out most likely, it's just a matter of finding that happy medium between oxygen exchange and co2 loss that keeps both fish and plants happy.

I have 4 types of ground cover in the tank: marsilea minuta (the aquatic clover), babytears, lilaeopsis(sp), and parvulus (pad), according to the writing on the bags they came in. I think that the I-don't-know plant is the lilaeopsis or parvulus.

Listen! Do you smell that?

i love that big rock in there! will you plant any of your plants on the drift wood?

33 gallon 7 neon tetras-5 platys-3 bleeding heart tetras-2 corys-1 rainbow shark-2 L83 gibby plecos

lysaer,

Your approach with lowering the air bubble count makes sense, although I find that fish can rather quickly acclimate to lesser oxygen levels in the water. But why risk anything, you are right.

Lilaeopsis brasiliensis - Micro Sword - I find that this plant grows well under even medium light. At some point about 60 weeks ago I had my 40G ground covered with it. Eventually I found it too unorganized and removed it.

Eleocharis parvulus - Dwarf Hairgrass - That would probably need a little more light to flourish, is is a magnet for gunk as well.

Neither nor plant is know to me as having to be mostly buried when planting.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think the micro sword is the one that I had tied to the cave, that's what it kind of looks like. The only reason I tied it to the cave in the first place was because I couldn't determine any kind of root system.

And the planting advisement came from someone I was talking to this weekend...I was talking about that particular plant, and that I couldn't find any roots on any of the plants except for one, so I had tried tying it down but I didn't think that was going to work because the cave was fake, there was nothing for the plant to grow into. And besides, I wanted it to actually BE ground cover like it's supposed to be. They suggested spreading it out and burying it, and just brushing the gravel off the top of the leaves so that light could get to them. He said that's how he had to plant his riccia to get it to both grow and stay anchored.

I figured "It can't hurt!"

Eleocharis parvulus - Dwarf Hairgrass - That would probably need a little more light to flourish, is is a magnet for gunk as well.

I'm sitting at 2.36wpg right now (error in original post - bulbs ARE 65w) - will be getting at least one of the actinic bulbs replaced with another 65w bulb probably at the end of the month to make it 3.5wpg.

i love that big rock in there! will you plant any of your plants on the drift wood?

Of course. Will cover it with java moss most likely.



Listen! Do you smell that?

lysaer,

IMHO, burying a plant too deep can hurt as it may cause the plant to disintegrate and as such "pollute" the water. Riccia is a completely different plant type, one that never has roots. Most people use a hair net and such in order to hold it down, and in one place. Micro swords have, under normal conditions, roots, so I assume yours got lost in the transport/replanting etc. I would suggest to have it buried the least amount possible, just enough to avoid floating up (I found it to be a pain in the *** to plant, LOL). I think about half an inch should do.

A downside of Micro Sword is its growth pattern. Its runners run a straight line and don't spread out in a star form. This means that the orientation of the initial planting (once runners occur) will define into which direction the spreading will occur.

2.3 something wpg over 55G could be enough for the Hair Grass, 3.5 will be better . Even if you don't plan to have high light requiring plants, you definitely should switch out the Actinic bulbs or turn them off. The do your plants no good and actually may support algae growth (rumor).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's not buried too deep. Maybe an inch at the most. I pretty much spread it out, then brushed gravel over it until it stayed down. It's spread out along the front edge of the tank for about 8-10" and 1-2" deep from the glass. If it does grow in a straight light that would be perfect. I'd like it to grow in from the left corner of the tank across the front to the edge of the river rock. How high does it grow?

And the actinics have only been turned on once or twice to show the roomie how blue they are. The rest of the time they're off. I need to list them on ebay, see if I can sell them off.

Listen! Do you smell that?

I think the Micro Sword will grow somewhere between 2 and 3 inches tall, maybe even 4. I have not been happy with mine as they don't seem to make for a nice lawn effect, they seemed a little "unorganized".

If you want to, go to my 40G Log in this forum, Page 9. That's the point where I started to add the Micro Sword to the tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That actually will be just about perfect for what I want. I more want a "hedge" kind of effect along the front left of the tank.

Listen! Do you smell that?

Quick update - picture quality not so great because I took these during the day. I wanted to wait until Saturday night, but I'm -amazed- at some of the plants in the tank, in particular the tiger lotus. To recap, look at this picture:



Look at all the lower leaves of the lotus. And if you look very carefully in the middle of the stems, down at the bottom, you'll see a thicker stem that's actually a tightly curled new leaf that's just emerged from the gravel. The bottom of the curled up leaf is 1/4" from the gravel in that picture.

That's Saturday night. Now look here, lunchtime today, Tuesday.





You see the leaf with the slightly curled edges up above the big flat leaf in the middle of the pictures? Yeah, that's the new leaf!! It's now over HALF the height of the tank!

Plus all the other leaves have grown big and pretty, and I see several more stems/leaves starting to poke out of the gravel.

Took a few other pics:



You have to look very closely here, but there's a runner root coming off the sword plant in the back (I think it's the marble queen) and has a bunch of little leaf-looking things sticking up from it that are growing up out of the gravel. Little_Fish, is this just a root system establishing, or new plants off-shooting?



Fred and Barney like having the vals around their log. They can hang out and have a little privacy at the same time. Here they're just chillaxin'. Fred's kicked back in the log, Barney's tanning on the rocks.



Better pic for Little_Fish here of what we think is the micro-sword...like I said, spread it out along the front of the tank, if it grows like I think it hopefully will form a "hedge". I looked at your 40g log and mine didn't come in a mat like yours did. It came just as a ... well, kind of a wad. A "small portion".



marsilea minuta in the bottom right corner, trimmed (and algae free now) and growing newly..and spreading nicely. A forest of crystal vals between the cave and the log, and my school of pepper cories hanging out among the vals. 'cept you can't see them here. But you CAN see a couple of val runners that were NOT there Saturday. Geeze.



There's a cory peeking out.



The giant hydro has grown, literally, half again in height since I first planted it, and another couple inches since Saturday I think. And also here, we see a couple ghost shrimp hanging out. "'sup?" They seem to say.

Listen! Do you smell that?

I love those vals! So nice & green. I want green in my tank too.

All your plants look quite happy thus far. Very green and healthy.

Just wait until your vals explode in growth. I had leaves that were spread 3/4's the length of my 40G long.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Lysaer, Hi , love the tank , looks like your off to a great start . I'm about to set up a new tank myself and I'm thinking of doing a log on FP . Any Tips ? I'm very new at this posting gig ( never done it before). I'll being watching your log with great interest.
Garry

Countryfish, thanks! I appreciate that. I'll shoot you a private message, though, with some ideas. And you might want to message little_fish, he seems to be the log king around here!

Listen! Do you smell that?

Thanks Lysaer, have posted on Ingo's thread . Look forward to some good discussions
Garry

he seems to be the log king around here!

Well thanks, but it would not be that way without the input from people like yourselves and the hard core plant crew.

Anyway, back to your tank, lysaer:

With regards to your CO2, are you measuring your content, by checking ph and KH? Just curious how much is retained.

In the close-up of the sword with the runner it seems like there is some algae forming around the edges of the leaves. If so then keep an eye on it. I am not an expert on sword plants (as I find them too large in the long run), but I would think that your marble queen "runner" may be a root that had been buried sideways and creates now new shoots upwards. But again, I know very little about swords.

In the picture that you use to show me the micro sword I only see the marsilea minuta. Where is the sword?

And good that the hygro is growing strong, it is an excellent fast grower and I would suggest to replant any trimming to increase the number of them (for the time being).

Overall, all looks pretty healthy, good job.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the lack of updates on the log! Been very busy with various things, including my pond project, and my memory cards for my camera have mysteriously disappeared, so that makes it hard to take pictures. I've got my cell phone camera, but those pictures just aren't of a good enough quality. Plus, my house cleaning and other yard work have kind of been being neglected, thanks to being busy at work and my obsession with the tank, so I've been trying to catch up with that.

I've also developed a pretty serious algae problem, so I've been dealing with that the last few days. I've been calling it brown algae, because, well, it's brown. It's on several plant leaves, making them look withered and burnt, and some of the plant leaves are starting to decay with it. I've added several otos and a good number of ghost shrimp to the tank to start attacking it, and they seem to be working on it pretty well. I've also started doing water changes more often in hopes that will take care of it, as I understand it's caused by silicates in the water. Today's water change will also bring with it some plant trimming, as despite the algae bloom the stem plants and vals are growing at a dramatic rate, and while I'm doing that I'm going to snip off any leaves that are coated too heavy with the algae to wipe off. It'll thin down things a bit, but it seems to be the best route to take.

Hopefully during my house cleaning, I'll find the stupid memory cards and be able to take pictures. If not, I'll try to get some camera phone pics up.

Listen! Do you smell that?

Good move on the Otos and shrimp lysaer

Yes, sounds like you got the type of algae identified just fine, Diatoms. They usually don't cause any major harm as long as there is not way too much of it in the tank. Water changes and manual removal will help as well, except if there should be a large amount of Silica in your tab water (could be, but very unlikely). Try to remove as much as you can.

I am not so sure about the trimming at this point. I would only take out what seems to die off, otherwise, let it go a little wild, you have enough space in the tank for additional plants and runners. You can work on the beauty of the tank after you managed to have it settled.

Now, go and find that memory card

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The only trimming I did was the plants that were about to grow out of the water. Well, except for the val's. The vals have exploded in growth, and I've got several vals that are actual poking up out of the water. Wanted to wait on trimming til I can take pics.

I also discovered during my water change and trimming yesterday morning that apparently one of my mollies has given birth again, as I found a few fry that managed to survive. Then I started thinking - oh no, I wonder how many got sucked into the filter? Better crack open the canister and get out all the dead fry bodies.

So I open up the cabinet under the tank, and sure enough, I can see fry. Only, when I reach for the canister to pull it out, they move. They were alive! I collected 15 live fry, and no dead fry, out of the canister. How funny is that?

Listen! Do you smell that?

Then I started thinking - oh no, I wonder how many got sucked into the filter?

Yeah, such small fry makes it through the impeller rather unharmed, although I have had a few cases where they seemed fine but succumbed to what I believe were internal injuries a few days later.

So, what did you do with the 15 fry that you found? I am sure you know that eventually you will find new surviving fry in a fully planted tank to be more of a curse that a blessing, for overpopulation reasons. I remember finding my first batch of Platy fry in my 29G and rescuing 9 of them. I hatched them like a mother chick, gave them a separate section in the tank (see first picture in that log), and only once they reached maybe an inch did I release them to the rest of the population. By now though, every fry that I find in that tank causes me to think "oh no, not more of them".

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

They're in a breeding tank floating in my 10g right now until they get big enough not to get sucked into THAT filter, then I'll release them to grow in that tank.

And once those get big enough they'll either be given away to someone local who wants them or into my mother's tank that I'm putting together for her birthday present.

Listen! Do you smell that?

Ok, found ONE of my memory cards, have managed to manhandle away most of the algae, plus added some driftwood to the tank...which s very very light consistency, so that meant adding rocks to hold it down, which meant rearranging plants, geeze what a vicious cycle.

Anywho, picture time. Please pardon the shiny reflection from my big bald head. I took the pictures in a bit of a hurry. And I think I had the flash on in one of them. Oops.























I know the big flat rock on the left looks out of place, and kinda throws everything off...but it was the only "clean" rock I could get last night at kinda short notice. I'll have to do some daylight searching this weekend and find something better that's heavy enough.

Listen! Do you smell that?

Beautiful lysaer! I would love that tank! /:'

lysaer,

Plants are growing nicely -
Algae is not too bad -
More hardscape is entering the tank -

Don't worry about the rock that seems out of place, I cannot stress enough that at this stage of the tank the looks are less important than the functionality (meaning the growing in of enough plants to stabilize the tank). I know one would like to show off the beauty of a tank from the get-go, but most of the time these tanks do not last very long (as they get messed up in a hurry), except if you really know what you are doing (and that would not be me, for sure, I think in line of people like Senske and Amano).

I am not so sure if adding the moss is such a great idea, it is an algae magnet and usually requires the removal of all the moss once infested. Given that you seen to have some minor algae issues, keep a close eye on it.

And that's it for now,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Lysaer, Tank's coming along nicely . I agree with Ingo more hardscape is great , and I'm not sure about the Moss either for a different reason . I think it detracts from the look of the driftwood , maybe it needs to grow some to look better . I was thinking of using some on my driftwood Im not so sure now ? Sorry just my 2c worth .
Love the photos and I think the look of the tank is developing , just needs some more growth to fill in . I wouldnt worry about the rocks either the plants will cover them in the long run . Look forward to more photos in the future .
Garry

hi lysaer,

nice looking tank - i noticed though, that a lot of your plants are buried past the root stock. the lotus in particular will rot if it is buried. all the species you have with main root systems need to be 'pulled up' a little so only the roots are in the sand and the crown above the sand. i think you'll notice much better growth.

justin

Jase,

Frank had mentioned that to me as well...the main reason I have them planted like that is because the gravel is so small that when I first planted them, they had a tendency to float loose. Especially the lotus, which had more leaves at the time.

However, having gotten that advice a couple of times I do believe when I do my wc today I'll "pull up" a little on them.

Listen! Do you smell that?

Geeze, I haven't updated in 2 weeks. Ok, here's an update for you.

I did some rearranging (yes, again) due to the driftwood shadowing some things, and the difformis and giant hygro -really- needing a trim. The vals were also growing wild so (before I read something that said "don't cut vals halfway"..I cut them halfway. Ooops. WHen the blades start to melt I'll cut them at the root.

I moved ALL of the giant hygro to the right. Moved ALL of the difformis to the back left. Moved the foxtail and ludwigia to the left. Removed some of the vals to another tank, and rearranged what was left just a little bit. Moved the apongenton's to the back and under the driftwood since they'll do ok in the low light/shade. And as I was told I probably would end up doing, I pulled out almost all the java moss.

I also removed the hairgrass, marsilea(sp), dwarf shainsword, and clover. I need a new groundcover, but haven't decided for sure if I am gonna get one, or what. Oh. Moved the alt. reinicki up front as well so it can get some more light. I also think I need a java fern or anubias to put on the driftwood to cover the twine holding it to the slate.

Now pictures!









Listen! Do you smell that?