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Hello

Hoping you can help me with lighting advice for this tank. The tank is a 4 ft (53G tank) with a fill depth of 18 & half inches.

Advice from LFS is that all I need are 2 x 48" 40W fluro tubes with suitable reflectors. But that only gives me 80W over 53G. I think that equates to 1.5wpg - which seems low. I repeatedly questioned him that this was low, & he kept saying that higher wattage was not needed because my tank depth is only 18.5 inches. He also said metal halides would overheat the tank. metal halides or T5 units are just ridiculously priced from LFS anyway & no way could I afford them. His advice was to get the 2 fluro light unit & if needed, come back & purchase another 2 fluro light unit if I found my red plants won't grow with that light.

I found this metal halide on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com.au/metal-Halide-Marine-Aquarium-Light-Lighting_W0QQitemZ7764705332QQcategoryZ46314QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem described as 150 Watt metal Halide Lamp with 10,000 K Bulb. This one is affordable, if it's suitable.

I think this works out at about 2.8 wpg. My questions about this light unit & my other options are:-

1. Does it matter with metal halides if the square or oblong shape of light unit is not the full length of the tank - looks to me like it won't be the full length.

2. Is LFS right - will this light make my tank too hot. This could be important, as during this past summer, with low level lights, my tanks reached temps of about 86 - 87 degrees F on the hottest days.

3. Would I be better to just get a 4 tube fluro light fitting, but this may mean I can't have 2 timers. This would allow me to to have up to 160W, depending upon how many tubes I used.

4. Should I get 2 x 2 tube fluro, so that I can set up 2 timers, for 2 lighting sequences? This has the added advanted of breaking the expense over a longer period (buy one now, buy one later - spread it out)

I still may be a little bit away from being able to buy the lights anyway, but if I could decide which is the best option - at least I'd know what I'm looking for.

Thank you



Cheers
TW

Robyn,

To answer your questions:

1. Does it matter with metal halides if the square or oblong shape of light unit is not the full length of the tank - looks to me like it won't be the full length. You got that right. Just alone for that reason I would advise not to use one of these in the middle of the tank. I know of people that use them, but they would have two of them on that tank size, but this gets you to a level where the planted tank game reaches the point of zero error margin

2. Is LFS right - will this light make my tank too hot. This could be important, as during this past summer, with low level lights, my tanks reached temps of about 86 - 87 degrees F on the hottest days. These lights make the tank hot when they are too close to the surface of the tank. Usually, they are suspended from the ceiling, ideally on cords that can be adjusted to different heights.

3. Would I be better to just get a 4 tube fluro light fitting, but this may mean I can't have 2 timers. This would allow me to to have up to 160W, depending upon how many tubes I used. Sounds like loads of light bulbs on top of the tank. And wouldn't 160W get you to about 3wpg? You could reach that level with a double 96W PC unit, with half the lights turnig on only for a few hours midday

4. Should I get 2 x 2 tube fluro, so that I can set up 2 timers, for 2 lighting sequences? This has the added advanted of breaking the expense over a longer period (buy one now, buy one later - spread it out) The regular flourescent lights need to be replaced more often as their color pattern (the K) tends to change faster than the one of PCs. A doule PC unit, if you buy the right one, comes with separate cords for the two lights (make sure to check this if you should look into them as some don't).

To sum it up, I would advise against MH lights at this point of your planting career. Now, if you use PCs or regular flourescent lights is a question of $, space, and preference.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

3. Would I be better to just get a 4 tube fluro light fitting, but this may mean I can't have 2 timers. This would allow me to to have up to 160W, depending upon how many tubes I used.Sounds like loads of light bulbs on top of the tank. And wouldn't 160W get you to about 3wpg? You could reach that level with a double 96W PC unit, with half the lights turning on only for a few hours midday

According to LFS, highest wattage fluro tube for 48" fitting is 40W - so maybe I need to go to a lighting warehouse and ask questions.

The regular fluorescent lights need to be replaced more often as their color pattern (the K) tends to change faster than the one of PCs. A double PC unit, if you buy the right one, comes with separate cords for the two lights (make sure to check this if you should look into them as some don't).

Sorry to show ignorance, but I don't know what PC's are. They're not what I've seen as T5 lighting are they? If so, unless I can find a cheapie on ebay, they're out of my range.

Thanks for continued advice.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
I have a fixture with two compact fluorescent bulbs and
two timers. With 65 watts each that gives me plenty of
light on my 30G tank.
You can also get them in 48 inch lengths.

Here is a site showing you the fixtures with the bulbs
mounted inside and the US prices:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=13637&N=2004+113345

And here is a picture of the bulbs:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/NavResults.cfm?N=2004+113346

Generally speaking, because of the intensity, and great
heat output of MH bulbs the are mounted one of two ways.
They are mounted as pendants (kinda like the heat lamps
are mounted over food trays in restaurants) or in
fixtures directly over a tank and have cooling fans built in
to dissipate the high heat. Pendant lamps are generally
set so the "footprint" of the lamp is about a foot and
a half to two feet in diameter so you would need two of
them for your 4 ft tank.

I don't see any sense in using MH lights over a fresh
water tank. The T-5s are always an option and you can
purchase a hood with up to several mounted inside, but as
you noticed, they are expensive.
Your LFS is correct when he says that 40 watts is the
max the fluorescent bulbs come in. You can use an open
top tank, and hang a four bulb fixture above it. The only
difference is, that I would go to the hardware store and
purchase a 48 inch bulb that is labeled DAYLIGHT or
SUNLIGHT instead of the more expensive "Flor" bulbs.
These daylight/sunlight bulbs give off light in the 6700K
range and are ideal for plants, and viewing tanks, while
costing a fraction of the more expensive "plant friendly"
bulbs. Many of us on a budget simply go to the local
hardware store and purchase a 4 foot hanging shop light.
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_meta&CNTKEY=storehome/pg_storehome.jsp&cm_ven=1hd.com2AOL&cm_cat=search&cm_pla=keywd&cm_ite=tbd
They come in 2 or 4 bulb fixtures and are white painted
aluminum. When outfitted with the DAYLIGHT or SUNLIGHT
bulbs, these work great at a fraction of the cost.
However, they are "shop lights" and are not necessarily
the "prettiest" over a tank.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

In case Frank's lengthy and excellent explanation didn't mention it, PCs are Power Compacts, aka Compact Flourescent lights. The are regular flourescent lights that are bent at the halfpoint and wrap back to the beginning (bad explanation, I know, basically look like double tubes). This way, they have more wattage on the same length. For example, the standard flourescent light wattage per bulb over a 24" long tank is 20W, but the PCs is 65W. This way, I can easily pack a 96W light over a 3' tank, or two or three, if I would like that.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Frank & Ingo,

I'll have to do some hunting around. No tubes at the LFS were those PC compact tubes that double over, but I have seen them elsewhere. If I buy the actual lightfitting from LFS to suit the tank, but then go to the hardware store and purchase a 48 inch compact or PC bulb that is labeled DAYLIGHT or SUNLIGHT, I assume they would fit straight in - or is that something I'll need to be careful about before purchasing. So 6700K is what I'm looking for? Although the overall wattage of my current lights are lower, my K is higher. 6700 is all I need? If I can, I should be looking for one with 2 power cords for separate light sequence, right?


Cheers
TW

but then go to the hardware store and purchase a 48 inch compact or PC bulb that is labeled DAYLIGHT or SUNLIGHT, I assume they would fit straight in

Robyn, if I understand your right then you would be planning to buy a unit at the LFS for standard flourescent and then place the PCs in their place, right? If that is the case then you cannot do that. The higher wattage requires a much stronger ballast than the standard flourescent.

I am not too familiar with what the Australian Web has to offer, but here in the US lighting units from Current run way cheaper on the web than any LFS that I know.

And to the K rating, I would say get one 6,700K and the other either in the 5,000K range or the 10,000K (but not more). That levels the color for viewing and doesn't slow down plant growth.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

hmmm, on line I've only found standard fluro, T5 or metal halides. I haven't found one yet that shows PC or compact. I'll keep looking, I have plenty of time, not rushing to set this up.

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,

I bought the unit from this link myself just a few months back, and now I've just ordered a second one just like it. The lamps pack 55 watts in just over 50 cm (less than two feet). I think this company ships all over the world, but you may be able to find a similar setup somewhere near you.

Best,
Martin

Hi Robyn,
If you look at the bulbs in the link in my earlier reply,
I mentioned the Compact flourscent bulbs and included a
link. In the link it shows the CP bulbs and how they
are shaped. It also shows the "business end" of the bulb,
the end that plugs into a socket.

You cannot purchase a hood with a regular flourscent
bulb, and just put in a compact bulb. They have different
sockets. Regular bulbs have one or, more commonly, two
pins at each end. The CPs have four pins, and on top of
that, the four pins can be in the form of a square, or
four pins in a straight row. To use the hood you would
have to retro fit a CP kit into the hood. That is strip
out all the origional stuff including the transformer
(called a ballast) the sockets and the wiring. Then install
the CP kit.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank & Martin

Martin, I'll have a good look at that link when I get home from work, but can you pls tell me what voltage your electrical goods are. Here in Australia, we are 240V (I think goods that are 220 or 240V will work). I almost made a mistake in ordering a US product & discovered at the last moment it won't work here.

Thanks for the advice about the CP kit Frank. I'll look into that too.

Cheers
TW

Ah, the great affliction to Australian fishkeepers - everything is either too expensive or not available.

I've had the same problems finding suitable light for a planted tank. I haven't looked into it too much yet, but I would think somewhere like Bunnings would have power compact bulbs available - but I'm not sure if getting a 4ft fixture would be a problem. I'm planning to plant my tank in the near future as well, so I'm keen to see if you find anything. I'm lucky enough that my partner is an electrician as well, so I think he might be able to fit out something for PCs himself.

As for US products, you should be able to pick up an adaptor fairly cheaply. Since the voltages are different (US uses 110V), you might have to get an adaptor that also has a step-down transformer. However, you may find that many electrical items will actually be able to use either voltage - I was just in the US and thought I would have to get a transformer for my digital camera charger, but when I looked at the plug it actually gave a range of 110-240V. So all I needed was the adaptor to make it fit the socket. Just something to keep in mind if you discover that buying from the US is the best way to go!

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

Not being a specialist on power conversion (I once blew up my electrical shaver in England when thinking they are still on 110V and adjusting it to that setting, but they just upgraded to 220V ), I would assume that you (just beginning) had no issues with the camera as the wattage needed to power it is minimal. Also, to charge batteries, all you have to do is design the charger to the higher voltage and if only lower voltage comes in then it will simply take longer to charge.

PCs, on the other hand, eat up quite some wattage. I doubt that the ballast in the fixtures are designed to handle a broad range of incoming voltage, I believe that such a feature would make them way too bulky (but I don't know that, I just assume). Also, I can imagine that a power converter to double the voltage would get quite hot when fired up for maybe 11 hours straight.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Robyn,

The unit comes from Germany, there they have the same powersockets as in most of Europe (two round pins) that supply 220 Volts. It is likely that the power sockets in Australia are slightly different in shape, so an adapter may be required. You should be able to get those easily at a tourist shop.

Good luck
Martin

Martin,

That, on the hother hand, is a great idea . Having the same wattage and simply getting an outlet adapter should work excellent.

Why did I not think of this, given that I come from that country ?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi just beginning,
I went down the track of ordering a US product (regulator/solenoid for C02) & after my order had been placed, I discovered the voltage difference. D.Smith sell a voltage transformer to run US electrical products in Oz, but the higher the wattage of the appliance, the higher the cost to purchase the corresponding transformer - so your savings from ordering from US go down the drain. I stressed for a bit, until the US company confirmed they had cancelled my order. So, I think US electrical products are out (even though they are sooo much cheaper - unless they are low watt products like Ingo says). You are lucky, with your electrician partner, he can probably wangle something up for you.

Martin & Ingo, I'll look more seriously at that site you gave me, & I'll have to ensure I can get the bulbs for it here in Oz. Stopped at a lighting shop today & asked about PC or compact fluorescents & the assistant didn't know what I was talking about. She asked me to bring a picture to show the boss. You or your partner probably know (just beginning) are the globes available here? Maybe they're just known under a different name?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

You can get the lamps from the same site (if you're going for that unit). These are the ones that I have. The unit I linked to earlier was a controller that allows two of thise lamps, but they also have controllers that only support one lamp. These are a little bit cheaper, but may be good if you want two have two lamps on at different time periods. More accessories can be found through links at the bottom of those pages, though the information they provide is rather limited.

Here in Finland they sell only the normal T12 fluerescent lamps in petstores, the selection is in general not very good and they are quite expensive. This online store has worked out quite well for me, I've ordered a couple of lamps and some equipment from there (like my CO2 regulator) and have been quite satisfied. The only downside really is their delivery times, usually it takes about three weeks to get the things I ordered.

Hi Martin, thanks heaps for the links & advice.

These are the ones that I have. The unit I linked to earlier was a controller that allows two of these lamps, but they also have controllers that only support one lamp.

So as well as the lamps & the controller, I also need the actual light fitting (I don't have a hood to screw fittings to, so it must sit atop my glass). I assume this is the type of thing I will need. [link] http://www.aquaristikshop.com/cgi-bin/neu/webshop.pl?f=NR&c=158208&t=temartic_e&userid=7ZLpUIF903uwJDlvDBABNljcOMs5Q8MNjwk [/link] Price converts to AUD$288.64, plus postage, plus the other bits & pieces (lamps & controller). It says it holds 3 lamps, but I only see one power cord. That would mean I can't have different timing sequences for some of the lamps. I couldn't see one with 2 cords. If I have to spend that much, I'd like the option of 2 cords. Never thought lighting would be this complicated, expensive or hard to get.

Thanks again.


Cheers
TW

Yay, Yahoo, Yipee. I think I have a product I can order on-line here in OZ. Hoping the planted light experts here can tell me if my Yipee is premature or not.

Here's what on-line supplier told me in his email

I have attached a pic. I can supply you with a Aqualina Twin Power compact which hold 2 x 96 watt tubes. I can order it in with twin power cords & switches. Price would be $280.00 including tubes. I will provide you with a 10000k artinic & daylight bulb. Yes the bulbs are PC.

Here's the pic. Something wrong with the frontal view & cord only shows one, but as noted above, it can be ordered with twin cords.

So, am I on the right track with the watts & K rating here. Anything else to think about?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Good brand but I would look around for one with 6700K bulbs.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric