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Hi Wings

Good brand but I would look around for one with 6700K bulbs.

The problem is these light units are not readily available at all in OZ. There may be others, but so far, this is the first compact unit, with twin power cords I found here. Maybe I could just ask him to switch the tubes. Which one should I be switching?

10000k artinic & daylight bulb

These are the ones he said he'd include. Do you mean to replace one of them with 6700K (if so, which one) or do you mean to replace both of them? I don't know what artinic means anyway - do you know? I think Frank mentions earlier that Daylight or Sunlight are good terms to look for in a tube.

Thanks

Cheers
TW

That's an excellent point Ingo, i didn't think of that.

Robyn - power compact bulbs are readily available here, you can find them in supermarkets (I think they are generally called "power saver bulb" or something), but I have only seem them in very small sizes and wattages, just big enough to fit in your everyday lightbulb socket. But now I'm all curious about whether you can get the 48" ones here, so I think I'll go to Bunnings on the weekend and have a look! I'll ask my partner tonight as well, if he sees them in electrical wholesale places.

Actinic bulbs are very blue, designed for corals and such - I think they are far too blue for plants, and might look weird on a freshwater planted tank too.


The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

I'm not an expert on lighting, but I think the general K range for plants is about 6000-10000. Usually 6700K is the better choice, but if all you can get are the 10000K bulbs, I would get it. I have one 6700K bulb and one 10000K bulb in my fixture over the 55g. The only difference is that the 10000K is brighter. The plants don't grow differently and algae isn't worse on one side. I wouldn't go with anything over 10000K because those are too bright.

*Kristin*

I have the same as girliegirl on my 4ft. You will notice that just with the 6,700k the tank will have a greenish tinge to it. The 10,000k brings everything back to a more natural colour.

Hope this helps TW.
Cheers - Crusha

---

Those who say they cant, Never will !!!

Now I think I've found the right light here in Aus & most comments have been positive. There has been a slight change re bulb configuration since last pic. I'm keen to order, if it's OK.

Any last minute comments on the light before I do order? Here again are the comments from the on-line Aussie supplier:-

I have attached a pic. I can supply you with a Aqualina Twin Power compact which hold 4 x 55 watt tubes. I can order it in with twin power cords & switches. Price would be $250.00 excluding tubes. Yes the bulbs are PC.

It's a shame you can't see the tubes in the pic, but the guy tells me they are the compacts & that it is the right size for a 4ft tank.

So does this type of light unit seem ok.

He tells me that here in Aus you can't get compact fluros with 6700K, as the demand has not been great enough for the product to be made available. He can only give me 10000K and 8500K. So seems my last hurdle is to order the bulbs in from overseas. I assume I can do so on that site Martin gave me - I'll look.

But is the light fitting, it's light configuration etc. what you think I need?

just beginning, I've only seen the smaller,lower watt bulbs you mention in the supermarket too. I haven't seen these higher watt ones suitable for a 4ft tank anywhere & they weren't even listed on this guy's site. I got the info by contacting him direct (email, then phone). If you can't find the bulbs elswhere, maybe he can supply the bulbs for your partner to rig something up. Tried to insert his email here, but appears it's censored. PM me if you're interested in contact details. As said though, he can't give you 6700K.

I don't know if Bunnings have the globes or not - but my guess is not.

Look forward to any last minute comments on the lights - particularly if they aren't the right ones after all.

What bulbs should I order - maybe 2 x 6700K & 2 x 10000K
or 3 x 6700K and 2 x 10000K. I'll also contact Martin's site to see what they'd recommend.

Thanks.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

As part 2 of of my question (see above post), the Aussie supplier of the light I'm thinking of buying says I should order:-

4 x LT-HMACF55W Price $27.99 55 watt 6700K Super Sun Light daylight Power Compact Bulb from the following US supplier http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/subsubcategorypage.asp?subcatindexid=lt%2Drpcb%2D55&offset=0

If the planted experts have time (you know who you are) could you pls let me know if I'm on the right track with all of this.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
Yup! Ur on the right track. Two of the 55 watt bulbs
will give you 2 watts/gallon at 6700K. That should
allow you to grow all of the low light plants and most
of the medium light plants on the market.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Robyn,

The unit displayed in your picture looks exactly like a Coralife unit. If that is the case then I think it is a good one, I have them on the 125 and 29 (and soon the 40 too).

I am not sure about the bulbs, are there any default bulbs in the unit, or do you have to order all bulbs anyway?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Frank & Ingo

Two of the 55 watt bulbs will give you 2 watts/gallon at 6700K. That should allow you to grow all of the low light plants and most of the medium light plants on the market.

I also have the other two 55watt bulbs that I can run for part or all of the lighting sequence, as my goal is to grow the high light plants as well.

I am not sure about the bulbs, are there any default bulbs in the unit, or do you have to order all bulbs anyway?

As just another one of the woes of fish keeping here in Aus, our choices are limited. Here you can't get compact fluros with 6700K, as the demand has not been great enough for the product to be made available. I can only get ones that are a combination of 10000K and 8500K. They are not separate either. If you imagine the tube doubled over on itself, he tells me that the 1st half is 10000K & the return is pink & 8500K. They will cost me an additional $100, but I didn't think they were right. He told me I won't get PC's with the right K here in Aus & suggested I try the US ones. Provided the US provider will send bulbs to Australia, I was going to order from there. I've also sent an email the Martin's supplier, asking what they would have to suit.

If you were to look at the US link http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/subsubcategorypage.asp?subcatindexid=lt%2Drpcb%2D55&offset=0 & the various lights there, what K would anyone suggest would be better than the 4 x 55W @ 6700K. 2 x 96w won't work on the light fitting here, that is only for 3ft tanks. The 4ft one takes only 4 x 55W - so I'm stuck with the 55w choices. (I can always go with the combination here in Australia (it would be easier) if you thought that would be ok, but I'd like to try to get the point where I can grow those red plants & not be as limited as I am now.

thanks for any further advice.



Cheers
TW

Robyn,

just reading through your description on the lighting issue makes my head spin

These double K fixtures are in general not too bad as they give you a light variety in one bulb. I think you would be ok with the 10,000 and 8,000 mixture for a while, I think quite a few people use 10,000 Ks on their tanks only (mostly when they have only one bulb and just can't stand the green color of the 6,700).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

just reading through your description on the lighting issue makes my head spin

Ingo, you should be in my head & feel the spin from this side. It seems everytime I try to get what's been recommended to me, I can just never get it. Our suppliers quite openly say how behind we are re aquarium things. These extra fancy things haven't caught on, so they arent available to us, or if they are available, the price is ridiculous. To me, this is all backward logic - how can the products "catch on" if we don't even have them on the shelves. Or how will they catch on if they're priced out of reach.

These double K fixtures are in general not too bad as they give you a light variety in one bulb. I think you would be ok with the 10,000 and 8,000 mixture for a while, I think quite a few people use 10,000 Ks on their tanks only (mostly when they have only one bulb and just can't stand the green color of the 6,700).

That's good news. I'll just order the unit from here with the included bulbs then - much easier. Price with tubes is $350, but that is reasonable for here. Half what I would pay for a T5 unit from LFS.

If I have time, I'll order it today. Thanks for your help.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Before you order, make sure that there is also the possibility to get replacement bulbs. In case one breaks earlier than expected, or eventually after around one year, you sure need a new bulb. And it would be a bummer if you can't get them.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yep, I've done that with the Aussie supplier of the light. He says he can give me the replacements - hopefully he won't go out of business.

Paulus has given me a lead in Brisbane, Aust. which may be able to give me tubes too, so I'm going to ring them.

To throw a spanner in the works, if you had a choice, what would you pick - T5 or compact PC?

Cheers
TW

what would you pick - T5 or compact PC

You know, I don't have any T5s but they seem to be pretty good.

A few months ago I had a conversation (debate) here at FP with someone thinking very strongly about T5s being better in all aspects than PCs, but the arguments were not scientific, so it didn't convince me. Things were more like "30w of T5 is better than 65w of PC" - based on what? Where can I read about that?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Robyn

Looking for similar lighting for my 4 footer, can you tell me the name of the supplier for your light.

thanks

hey foxeyes

I'm going to order my light from Ben at Age of Aquariums. Whilst they have a website, the light isn't mentioned on it. If you talk to Ben, he can arrange it. Just tell him it's the same one that I've been talking / emailing him about.

EDIT: I tried give you contact details here, but it didn't work. I will PM them to you instead.

Hope this helps.




Cheers
TW

You do know when I started my tank I purposely bought a 36" light even though my tank is 48" because I didn't want 3.6wpg. My current lighting is 96 watts from 9:30 to 12:30, 192 watts from 12:30 to 6:30 and 96 watts from 6:30 to 8:30. So I only have 1.3 wpg for 5 hrs a day and 2.7 wpg for 6 hrs.

This is a quote I copied from Tetratech (at least I think it was you, Tetra) in some advice he was giving regarding lighting & algae.

Before that, I thought I was going to order a 48" Twin Power compact which holds 4 x 55 watt tubes. After reading Tetra's advice, I wonder if I should go instead for a 36" Twin Power compact which holds 2 x 96 watt tubes.

One of the last things I want to do is give myself so much light that I have algae problems.

I'd really appreciate any opinions on this. The 36" unit is cheaper too.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I think your light decision would depend on the plants that you plan to use at the ends of the tank. There will be basically a 6" gap on each side that does not receive any direct light. For tetratech that will work, as the Wisteria in these areas does not need much light to be happy.

Also, how would you affix the unit over the tank? Directly on the glass? And is there a hinge that may be in the way of the light?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'd be happy to plant wisteria and the like on the outer edges, provided that I get to put my red & high light plants "somewhere". Add to the criteria, that I can't get 6,700K PC tubes here in Aus - I'm stuck with a combination of 10,00K and 8,500K (you might remember we talked about this earlier in this thread). I can get the 6,500K, but I have to order from overseas, which really is a hassle (but not impossible). On replacement of initial tubes, I might order the US ones, but would probably go with the AUS ones to start with.

I want the best of both worlds, minimum of algae & high light plants.

The tank is only 19inches fill depth, & 14 inches width. Does this effect things?

So, maybe the question really should be would a combination of a twin PC with 4 x 55W be the cause of too much algae, rather than being my gateway to the highlight plants without increased algae?

Cheers
TW

Hi
Given the situation, and your desires, I'd go with the
combination of bulbs that you mentioned. The 8800K and
10,000K bulbs. The 8800K bulb may moderate the "washout"
effect that the higher K rating bulbs have.

As to the use of a timer... If you have all high and
medium demand plants, I'd give some thought to running
them both at the same time. If you are going to have
a hodge podge of plants from all sorts of demand categories
then I would use a timer and run the 8800K for 10 hours
and expriment with the 10,000K for time. Starting at
a two hour "on" period, and moving up to a four hour "on"
period. Center the "on" period in the middle of the
10 hour "day." Decide upon the "on" period by what gives
you the best plant growth with the least algae. Realize
that if you go with these lights, pushing into the 3+ wpg
area, that you will have to provide CO2 as well.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Tankwatcher,

Either let should work, but I would go with the lesser wattage. The fact that you might not be able to put a high light plant in the corner will be of minimal importance compared to the problems you will have running over 4 wpg and not having everything working close to perfection (co2, ferts, low fish load, feeding schedule, healthy plant mass, etc.)

My Scapes

Thanks Frank & Tetratech,

Frank, both options come with 50% of the lighting being 10,000K & 50% being 8,500k.

The question is do I go for the extra wattage (4 x 55W) that the 4ft unit gives me, or do I go for the 3ft which gives me 2 x 96W. I don't know why it is so, but the 4ft light will not take 2 x 96W.

I think by Tetratech's advice, I'm going to go for the 3ft light, unless someone else has thoughts as to why I shouldn't. I don't want to have zero error margin for algae.

Thanks for the replies.

Cheers
TW

unless someone else has thoughts

I have some thoughts, but I don't know how helpful they are.

- both units would be useless if they don't provide the option to turn on one row of lights individually. If not then the light output is too high for a full day.
- both units should be have half the lights turned on for all day and the other for only a few (1-5) hours to mimik midday.
- At high light (all on), there is a mere difference of 0.5wpg of output between these units, whereby the shorter one is more intense in the middle of the tank than the longer one, as all output is focussed on 3' rather than 4'. Basically, I believe it is at least as high than the longer one in specific areas of the tank.
- Either or unit is strong enough to not permit errors.
- On low light (half on), the shorter one makes more sense to me as it brings the tank to about 2wpg, closely followed by the longer one with only 0.25wpg less.

Overall - it is a toss, at least that is how I see it. As such I personally would elect the longer one as it shines over the entire tank. But hey, it wouldn't be the first time that I made the wrong call.

Ingo

EDIT: Robyn, the 96w does not come in 4' as the length of the bulb dictates the length of the unit. If both bulbs would start on one end then the remaining over 12" would be empty, if they start on opposite ends then over 6" on each side would only have half the light.

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for your thoughts Ingo. As with everyone's advice, they are always helpful. Yes, I have made sure I can turn both sets of lights on separately (2 power cords, so two timing sequences). This option wasn't easy to find here in Aus (either the twin cords or the fact they take the PC's).

So I really don't know what to do. I respect both opinions & admire both of your tanks, but know that I am a little scared of giving myself an algae problem.

Ingo, so you think even the 3ft with 2 x 96W tubes, run on 2 separate timing sequences would still be enough to make me have no room at all for error? The only reason for getting the smaller fitting was if it does give me, at least a small difference, in my error margin.

Thanks for any further advice.



Cheers
TW

Robyn,

As you know, I have a 6' tank with twice the light you would have if you get the 36" unit. And I have more than twice the water and my tank is taller (I think). And do I have algae? Yes, not so much that I have to panick, but enough to fill pages in my log discussing it. And why do I have algae? Because I have a small margin of error that could be tolerated and I made more errors than that (fish load, messing with tank, and what not).

High tech / high light tanks are more demaning, and I don't believe that either or unit in consideration would quailify as not being high light (when both are turned on).

I know that this information is not helpful in a sense of making a decision here, sorry about that.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As I mentioned either light would work and as Ingo points out both are "High Light" for your size tank. Robyn nothing is black and white and I don't want to give you the impression that the 196w would give you a big margin of error it wouldn't. That's the same light I have on my tank and it's almos 20gallons bigger. By even though the higher light is .5wpg difference it's still more and would require that much more control IMHO.

I would also stick with 6700k bulbs. They work the tank looks nice. There's a reason most people use them. Don't still experiementing with 10k, etc. Look I have a total of 192 watts on my 72g (2.7wpg) and what makes it worse it's a bowfront. The front of the tank doesn't get direct light either and I have riccia pearling and my blyxa I fine as long as I don't shade them from the Canopy (right Frank). There are countless number of plants you'll be able to grow in the corners with the 3ft light. The only disadvantage is it has to set on the canopy unless you rig something. I use little rubber feet to raise it up a few inches and I've never had a problem. You could also buy coralife hinges and it will sit on top of the canopy as well.

My Scapes

Thanks again guys,

The repeated woe of fish things not being available in Aus, means that so far I haven't found 6700k PC bulbs here. Apparently, the market doesn't exist for them (but how do they know that, if they don't even make them available to us). Earlier in this thread I had a bit of a conversation about this & considered ordering the correct bulbs from the US. This is still an option & if I do so, I'd thought about 50% 10,000K & 50% 6,700K. The 10,000K was added to the mix, as I've heard some say the 6,700 gives the tank a green look. If the 10,000K takes me further towards the error margin, I will skip that - but can't if I take the Aussie bought pc tubes. The Aussie tube is 10,000K on one side, then does a U-turn on itself & the return strip is 8,500K. So really, it's just one combination tube that somehow changes the K rate on it's return. I will search harder around Aus & see if any other on-line supplier has 6,700K. The US Supplier doesn't guarantee that the tubes won't break in transit, so I'm not sure if this is really such a good option for me.

If I don't go down the track of the PC twin light unit, my next option is two separate twin units, each holding 2 fluro tubes of 30W. So 4 tubes with total of 120W. This will be a bulkier look on top of the tank - but would this be better? I want to grow high light plants & I'm not scared of the work of a C02 high light/high tech tank, but don't want it to be an impossible task, doomed to failure from the start. Seeings as my tank is so much smaller than either of yours, should I just go back to the bank of 4 fluro tubes (whch is actually 2 separate twin light units)?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

No - you should not go back. Listen, this error margin thing has you way more worried than it should. Keep the tank tidy, don't overload on fish, do your water changes, feed ferts - and you will be fine . Basically, avoid all the things that I do wrong and do all the things that I do right .

There are people that run 300w MHs on a tank of your size. You want to grow high light plants, you gotta have light for them. 120w will not be enough, IMHO.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

There are people that run 300w MHs on a tank of your size.

There are also people that can hit a 95mph fast ball or can swim the english channel. It's a learned art IMHO

My Scapes

Frank, Ingo & Tetratech

Thanks for all your help. I drew a deep breath today and ordered the 48" light. In the end, the choice was made by the supplier telling me that the 36" light would not be able to stand on the 48" tank. It has a stand, but he said it was designed to affix to the tank edge & would not work sitting on the tank top. I asked whether it would work if I could find little rubber feet to put on the edges to support it, and he thought not. So, that was what decided it.

I ordered it without globes & I'm waiting on shipping advice from a US site that will supply 6700K lights to me here.

Should I stick to all 6700K, or throw in a 10,000K to combat the green look some people mention the 6700K can give?

Thanks

Cheers
TW

Hi,
Honestly, I would stick with the 6700K bulbs. The water
does not look green, nor does anything else. 6700K is a
white light that contains the correct mix of red and blue
for plant growth but does not affect the true colors of
the plants or fish.

The higher you go in K rating the more harsh the "glare"
of the bulb. Think of it as stepping out into the sunlight
from a shaded area, you would squint, or need sunglasses.
If you are squinting, you will not see the true colors of
some objects as your pupils have contracted, and you
are not using the full capabilities of your eyes. When
you use bulbs in the 10,000K and higher range, the light
shining down on the tank is that much brighter and harsher
to look at. 10,000K is the max one would use on a fresh
water tank and not really necessary unless your tank is
2 ft or more in depth.
Using 6700K bulbs is not like using some sort of black
light that enhances the greens and makes them stick out.
Instead, it is using a light that allows a truer color
rendering (CRI) of what you are looking at.
I think you would be happier with the 6700K bulbs.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Honestly, I would stick with the 6700K bulbs.

Well said Frank, I totally agree. The only reason my large tank looked so green was because I had the 5,500K on all the time .

The shorter unit would have fit like you described, that's what tetratech has. Your LFS guy has to meet tetratech, I guess

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Frank & Ingo, ok, so I'll try & get the 6700K & probably only have the 2nd bank of lights on for a relatively short period of time.

I thought Tetratech said it would work, but on-line LFS was pretty strong that it wouldn't. As the light is in QLD & I'm in NSW, I can't even look at it for myself before buying, so I took the safe path of taking his word for it.

I hate decisions, but I hope this one will work out ok.

Cheers
TW

I hate decisions, but I hope this one will work out ok.

That is the beauty about high tech planted tanks, they force people to make decisions and a young lady like yourself can learn a lot from it

Seriously, I hear you. Every time I set up a new tank it seems like the options are endless and I have to narrow it down to just one solution. Maybe this is why we have so many tanks, this way we can implement different solutions at the same time.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It almost like, before you make the decision, your options are the world, you can do anything. And then you decide, and that's what you're stuck with. Oh, well.

Cheers
TW

Well, I put a hold on the light. I've ordered the 3ft light for my husband's marine tank, and when it arrives I'm going to see if it would be possible to rigg up little rubber feet, so that it fits on the 4ft tank. If I can rigg up something to raise it from the glass, then I'll order the 3ft light instead, if not, it's back to the 4ft light.

It's a woman's prerogative to change her mind.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
What bulbs did you order for the SW tank?
If you are keeping corals, or other invertebrates,
I would use the 20,000K and 10,000K with 1 or two
6700K bulbs mixed in to moderate the harshness of
the over all light.

The inverts need the high Kelvin light, and lots of
it to support the algae and enzymes and nutrients
that they need to live.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank

I know that one of them is 10,000K, but I don't know the K rating of the return tube. (It's one of those tubes that does a U-turn, with 50% light being one thing, & the return being something different). I know that the 10,000K is "Marine blue artinic" & the return tube is "Marine White". Apparently, I dont' have much choice, unless ordering from O/S. For this light fitting, I'm sticking with the tubes available in Australia (not ordering from US). So, I'm stuck with the limited Aussie choice that is available.

It was hard enough to convince hubby to order a light on-line (he does not like doing this - wants to walk into a shop & pick up what he buys, but this light is not available in a shop). I would never convince him to order the tube from overseas.

Thanks for your advice Frank.

Cheers
TW