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What's the plant behind the tennelus carpet.

Do you mean the green flame sword (the one with reddish leaves)?

-P

Yep, that answers it. Nice plant!

My Scapes

upikabu,

Does the question about lights in my tank imply that you only looked at the pictures in my thread ?

Ok, here is a summary: 65W 6,700K PC, no CO2 except once every two weeks 10ml of Flourish Excel. Plants look very green ever since I got the 6,700K light – that is one side effect of this temperature, everything is soooo much greener.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice tank! I tend to just dive in and start rooting around and let my fish fend for themselves. My house is most often too cold to have fish in buckets for too long, they get sick when I warm them up again. But after reading this thread, when I do a major replant of my 25g I will remember to move the poor little fishies first.

I have a question about using CO2, can it be used when one has mostly large fish and not a heavily planted tank? Or would Excell be a better bet? I have never used Co2 and while my plants seem fine they just don't grow like yours do, my amazon swords haven't reached the surface and they'll be a year old in March!
I have learned so much by reading these threads so please keep posting. Tetra I made it through yours last night.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Well, since you read through my long and sometimes bizarre thread I think it only just that I answer your Co2 question.

Its more a matter of light intensity whether co2 would be applicable. Almost all plants grow faster with the addition of c02. Don't want to get too much into it because this is Nowhere's thread about his tank, but if you want to continue in another thread I'm sure the myself and the others would be happy to answer any co2 questions.

My Scapes

My house is most often too cold to have fish in buckets for too long, they get sick when I warm them up again. But after reading this thread, when I do a major replant of my 25g I will remember to move the poor little fishies first.

Yep, just plop the heater in the buckets with them, it's a lot less stressful. Also, keep them in the old tank water in the buckets, that'll keep the stress down too.

Hehe, tetra, if you want to post the long answer that's more than fine with me. These aer all very open threads afterall.

In anycase, what tetra said is true - 99% of the time adding pressurized CO2 will make your plant growth take off, but if light is your limiting factor (the big things plants need are: carbon, N, P AND K and light) then all the CO2 in the world won't help them grow as fast as they can. Feel free to ask any more questions here or elsewhere, we'll help the best we can

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Haven't been keeping up with this log too much, very hectic at work...

Anyway, my tank has now taken on the dreaded white cloudy appearance, so now I'm off to search through tetras thread to see what he did to clear things up.

Also, I'm noticing that there's a green algae forming on my substrate - not BGA, its not loose or slimy, it's just green. Which means one thing - my BN is not doing his/ her job! ]:| I mean, why else would I have that ugly little critter in there if not to clean up some of the easy green algae - it's not like Im asking him/ her to take on staghorn algae...

methinks otos will be a part of my new stocking...

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methinks otos will be a part of my new stocking...

methnks that Shrimp should be part of your new stocking as well as Otos are very picky about their food . I cannot vouch for it, but it appears to me that as soon as algae strands reach a measurable size the Otos are not going to eat it anymore.

Ingo

EDIT: have fun with tetratech's Willow Branches

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 22-Nov-2005 09:59

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher, to save you from reading through my log (unless you really want to) here's what it could be and what I had and did. There are 3 possiblities in order of difficultly.

1. Bacterial Bloom - This will disappear after a few weeks, you really don't have to do anything, maybe big water change. If it doesn't go away by than it's probably number 2. I believe bacterial blooms are caused by decaying plants, overfeeding, etc.

2. Algae Bloom - This is what I had. It will look white at first, seems to get worse during the day and eventually it will take on a greenish tint. I tried almost everything even "dancing around the tank" must see my thread for the full story, including the part with the willow branches. You could clear it with a blackout, diatom filter, or a few products like Seachem Clarity or Hagen P-Clear. I ended up using P-Clear and at first it did clear it. These product clump the bloom so it's big enough for your mechanical filter to grab it, but after the water cleared it did come back a few times. I used the product about 4 times and it eventually cleared for good, but I'm not sure if it's because of the product or because my plant mass got big enough to beat back the algae bloom. The willow branches are a long story, but if you add a bunch of weeds (you know Wisteria) and let them float especially that should help.

3. Since you are running diy co2 I had to mention this, but it's probably not the root of your cloudy water. The yeast mix could have gotten into the tank and started a reaction. This happened to me once when I was running two 1.9 litre bottles into my old 46. When I woke up their was a billowly cloud in my tank and the fish were gasping. The tank smelled like beer. My tank bascially became a co2 bottle. Very ugly, total breakdown of tank to clear it. I think this happened because I didn't have my bottles below the tank, but next to it.



My Scapes

but it appears to me that as soon as algae strands reach a measurable size the Otos are not going to eat it anymore

Well that's the thing, it's not strands, it's just green algae covering certain pieces of gravel... the BN should be feasting on this stuff but he/ shes nowhere to be found. Wait, scratch that, i know exactly where it is - hiding in the DW, like always... lazy mooching BN... ]:|

As for the water, thanks for the summary tetra. I did go back and look some things over... bensaf said green water was a result of ammonia and too much light, but I know I don't have either. I have a diatom filter and it works well for a while, but I know from experience the GW always comes back. last time I fixed it by dropping some hornwort in, which is what I just did yesterday, so we'll see what happens in a few days. Hopefully my other plants will continue to grow in and fight back the uni-cell algae.

I don't know how it could be a bacteria bloom either, it's pretty much a brand new tank, there's nothing to decay yet, except for some old growth on the tenellus.

And no more DIY CO2, btw. Sat. i got my tank refilled and all is well, I have the CO2 pushing pretty hard, but Im thinking of upping it into the 30s (right now it's in the low 20s, fish showing no signs of stress)

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lazy mooching BN
I never realized truly what kind of mess BN's make in a tank until I moved one out of my 72 and into my 12 with a sand bottom. I couldn't see the mess on my eco but on the sand it was unbelievable that one fish could poop that much. They are just constantly ingesting wood and food on it. That's really their mean thing and not the algae on glass, plants, etc. If you take out the DW they will do a better job because it's the next best thing. I have since moved my BN out of my 12 because of the mess and because it was pushing sand all over my javamoss, so now he resides in a 10g with some guppies, wcmf, ramshorn snail and a fire-bellied newt.

Is the water getting cloudier in the evening that's usually a sign that it's GW. My tank seemed to look it's clearest in the morning and got worse as the day progressed.



Last edited by tetratech at 22-Nov-2005 14:40

My Scapes

tetratech's BN




No other comment

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

BN in a ten gallon, eh? :cratches chin, light bulb over head goes from "off" to "on"::

Would you say that's a permanent spot for him, or are you just keeping him there temporarily? I'm seriously considering finding an LFS to try to take mine.

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 22-Nov-2005 15:15

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Gosh, I'm so glad I read this. I've been considering getting a BN for my 15g to take care of the occasional diatoms on the glass. After reading tetra's experience I'm glad I haven't (I have a sand bottom too). I'm going to hunt for a couple of otos this weekend.

Nowherman6 - otos should immediately take care of those soft green algae - they love that stuff! I bought some anubias at an auction over the weekend whose leaves were covered with soft green algae (not green spot). Within a couple of hours after putting it in my tank with 2 otos, the algae was completely gone!

-P

BN in a ten gallon, eh? :cratches chin, light bulb over head goes from "off" to "on"::

Well he was 'bout 2" when I got him, he's probably about 4.5 now. The ten has a series of rocks forming a cave that extend out of the water for the newt. He has been hanging out in one cave upside down since I got him. The tank is near a window and get's lots of algae, so I thing he's pretty happy. I just ran out of options, he might end up back at the LFS like you said. I still have an albino BN in my 72 as well.

upikabu,
As you could see I think you will regret it if you put a BN in that tank and it makes your nice sand look like "crap" literally.


My Scapes

Yeah, I think my BN is going to have to go. The more I get into the plantedness of the tank, the more I want gentler fish that don't hide in caves all day and uproot my rotala

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Finally back from the holiday - and work - with some bad news to report. I think I'll let the pictures do the talking...

Imagine coming home to this:





Now, Ive basically just been trying to ignore the green water, I've been adding ferts as normal trying to increase plant mass... but as you can see the green has definetely gotten worse. I may have to diatom it soon if it doesnt improve...

However, I must say, plant growth looks phenomenal once you get past the green water. The luwigia is showing fantastic color and has really taken off in growth, and the rotala is starting to grow in really well, as with the wisteria. The tenellus is sprouting new shoots every day. I'm sure I have a really nice tank, pity I can't see it [/font][/font]

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However, I must say, plant growth looks phenomenal once you get past the green water. The luwigia is showing fantastic color and has really taken off in growth, and the rotala is starting to grow in really well, as with the wisteria. The tenellus is sprouting new shoots every day. I'm sure I have a really nice tank, pity I can't see it
We'll take your word for it, since we can't see anything.
That is similiar to what happened to me. Great plant growth, but water started to get cloudly. Don't bother with extra water changes it will not do a thing. Curious did you ever start using carbon, I don't remember. I did cut back on ferts and starting to increase plant mass. I still feel the lack of carbon and a good biofilter from the getgo is the genesis of the GW. I don't know if the ferts than feed it.

Increase plant mass and you could try P-Clear or Seachem's Clarifty if you want to use a particulate (clumps the GW so your mechanical filter can grab it) This will clear it but it will come back if you don't change something else or plant mass increases.

BTW - If you use the particulate once it clears, clean out your filter media because it will be green with the GW and then I would add the Purigen to the filter media. The Purigen might make it harder for the GW to get established again.

Last edited by tetratech at 28-Nov-2005 09:24

My Scapes

Wow NowherMan6,

I didn’t know if I should or when I saw the pictures.

Green water is to my knowledge not dangerous to plants and fish, as long as there is enough oxygen in the water for the fish to breath. Actually, if you had fry they would love the soup as it is an excellent food source. Plants seem to show almost no negative effect in growth either.

tetratech is the Green Water Specialist (not wizard, not god ) and his advice is as good as it gets .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Please, by all means all you want, I do. Over the couse of the past few weeks it was basically:

- "hmm, looks a little brownish or cloudy. meh, it's just the laterite"

then, "hmm, still cloudy, more whitish now. nothing to worry about... I can't see green though. nope, definetely no green. can you see green? I can't see green... "

then finally after being away a few days and seeing the pea soup, "d*mmit, that's green water..."

I'll do some research on purigen. Right now it looks like a good diatoming is in the works, just so I can see things again. Ferts will continue as normal, full speed ahead!

Is there any utility to cutting back on my lighting? Right now it's going 11 hrs... would 10 be better? And also, I've been testing for ammonia over and over but can't get any to register... I guess it's in very small ammounts so it's not showing up... but it's there in large enough quantities to start this bloom ]:|

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Looked up Purigen:

"A macro-porous, synthetic polymer that removes proteins, nitrite and nitrate, ammonia, and a broad spectrum of organics at a rate and capacity that exceeds all others by over 500%. It significantly raises redox and polishes water clarity."

Ummm, isn't that not so great for planted tanks...?

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 29-Nov-2005 14:27

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uh,

Wait until you hear tetratech's explanation.

Upfront - it will be ok

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

"A macro-porous, synthetic polymer that removes proteins, nitrite and nitrate, ammonia, and a broad spectrum of organics at a rate and capacity that exceeds all others by over 500%. It significantly raises redox and polishes water clarity."

Nowher

Read it again, Nowher

"Purigen Controls ammonia, nitrites and nitrates by removing nitrogenous waste that would otherwise release these harmful compounds. Purigen's impact on trace elements is minimal"
What this is saying is it doesn't directly remove nitrate but will remove waste that will eventually turn into nitrate, So if your adding no3 directly it will not remove it. It will help control waste that eventually will release nh3 that will feed the bloom.

Are we there, nowher........



My Scapes

OK, I can vouch for Purigen not removing nitrate in planted tanks (at least not to the detriment of the plants vs. nitrate-sucking plants like Anacharis/Elodea), even if you don't add nitrate in. I use Purigen in my fully stocked tank, and when I had Anacharis the nitrate level never goes above 5ppm. Once I took the Anacharis out, the nitrate level shot up to 20ppm in a week (with the Purigen still in there and just normal feeding).

On the other hand, it also didn't have any effect when I had a cloudy water issue. Although I'm pretty sure that was from a bacterial bloom (it finally went away after I added a bacterial starter), not green water like you have. BTW, you've probably seen this article on green water already, but just in case. Hope the green goes away soon!

-P

Read it again, Nowher

Ahhhh, I seeeeeee. I was hasty in my reading and missed something important. Oh the foolishness of youth!






up. - thanks for the encouragement. I've beaten GW before and I know I can do it again. Now if only i can get out of work in time to come home when my tank lights are on so i can see what's going on in the tanks ]:|

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GW update:

Ran the diatom last night and I experienced something I never have experienced before. It didn't work.

Started it up as normal and ran it for 45 mins. Tank showed some moderate clearing, but then the filter clogged. Took it apart, cleaned it, turned it on again for another 45 mins. Clogged again, this time without making so much as a dent. I've never seen something like this before. usually it works like a charm in an hour. Maybe I'll try again tonight or something. This has got me seriously p*ssed ]:|


I'm going away for the weekend so I'm going to do a blackout and then start with the purigen afterwards if I can find it. Unbelievable.

The only plants I can see are the tenellus, and they're doing very well - new leaves growing out of the old plants, runners growing like crazy, old emmersed leaves dying off. I can also kind of see that the ludwigia is growing out of control. I can't wait to get in there and prune, if only I could find my way around in there ]:|

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NowherMan6,

Not being an expert on diatom filters, so how do you clean them?

Can it be that the diatoms are so stuffed that they cannot be cleaned anymore?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Willow branches anyone? If you don't have them in Jersey I'll sell them to you cheap.

I know how frustating that is Nowher. I actually started to see alittle cloudiness in my tank after messing around with it. It seems I have a very fine line, between clear and cloudy. The purigen I look at as just another feather in your cap. Should help. It won't help clear the current bloom, but if your water is clear it should help with waste that would create another one.

I've actually decided to purchase a UV sterilizer. More in my thread.

My Scapes

Not being an expert on diatom filters, so how do you clean them?

Diatom filters work by basically keeping diatom powder stuck to the surface of an extremely fine mesh bag. The diatom powder is so fine nothing but water passes through. However, as you guessed, if the GW is bad enough it will eventually clog and stop working properly. To unclog it you flush the whole system out with water, then add another dose of clean diatom powder and start over again. I just can't believe that doing this twice didn't help.


tetra, I'll take the willow branches if you promise to throw a bag of fairy dust in with them... then you've got yourself a deal!

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NowherMan6,

Yeah, I guess I wasn’t to clear (or you weren’t) as I actually assumed you “cleaned” the diatoms. But I agree that replacing the batch with a new one should have helped.

BTW, if I am not mistaken, what you describe as diatom power are actually skeletons. Did you know that?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's bascially the same stuff they use to clean pools. Many people of DE filters. It stands for Diatomeous Earth which is actually microscopic skeletons of Diatoms. I think the earth is actually microsopic sponges that trap dirt in a size so small you can't see it.

My Scapes

Well the black out is over. Results? See for yourself below. I've done blackouts before but none were even close to being as hard on my tank as this one.

The first thing I noticed when looking at my fish was that one of the harleys was showing SERIOUS signs of dropsy. Pine-coning, bloated.... i felt so bad, I put her down right away, there was no point trying to treat her, she was so far gone... The other harleys look alright, no outward signs of stress... the loaches are a little schitzo, but I guess that's par for the course with them. I have no idea what the disease that caused the dropsy is... would it be a good idea to use some sort of general treatment? If so, what should I use? Ive never really had to medicate something like this before.

The other thing was that my tenellus pretty much melted and my ludwigia repens decided to shed alllll of its leaves, leaving 20 inch tall bare stalks. I had to cut them and replant everything but the bacopa, basically undoing the past few weeks growth. ]:|]:|

Here's the before pic, before WC and trimming:



Here's some of the melted tenellus:



Some bare stems:



A carpet of shed ludwigia leaves:



Some harleys in memory of the lost little gal :



And finally, here's the after pic, basically looking like it did in the first week...



I'm kind of unsure how to approach fertilizers at this point. I lost a fair amount of plant mass, is it a good idea to dose again, at the same levels or less?

Stupid green water ]:| wish I had a UV sterilizer...[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]

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How does a UV sterilizer clear up green water? Isn't it algae and doesn't it need UV to survive? I thought the sterilizers were for killing off bad bacterias and parasites. And GW was caused by too much light and the wrong amounts of certain ferts? Obviously there will always be some algae in a planted tank, otherwise the plants couldn't survive. Are you possibly overlighting your tank and causing the algae to bloom like crazy? Sorry if I'm way off base, but I have been trying to figure all this out and Bensaf seems to make sense that it isn't necessarily the ferts causing the GW. All I really can say is the low-light tanks don't seem to have as many problems with algae bloom as the high-light tanks. How long are the lights on for? Mine are now on 12 hr timers and even that produces some algae but not the GW. Again sorry but I'm as confused as everyone.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

NowhereMan,

Sorry to hear about your plants' reaction to the blackout and your Harley.
I've had 2 neon rainbows come down with dropsy suddenly in the last 6 months (a few months apart) and I have no idea what caused it or how to treat it. I lost both once I moved them to my hospital tank and tried some medication.

Since your plant mass has now been reduced by quite a bit, I would personally hold off on the ferts, at least not to the same extent as before. IME plants need some time to establish themselves in the beginning or after major pruning exercises. I usually add half the normal amount of ferts after major pruning and wait a few days to a week until I start to see actual growth on the plants. Then again I don't add external CO2 to my tanks (only Excel to some) and they're all low lights (<2wpg), so YMMV. Just my two cents.

Hey at least the GW is gone right?

-P

Plants don't look that bad, wasn't some that tellenous growth the original emerged growth that would have fallen off anyway. Great shot of the Harleys!



My Scapes

NowherMan6,

I am with you on the removal of any fish that shows serious signs of dropsy, I had to do just that in my 29G with a Platy about 3 days ago. As sad as it is, waiting around and guessing the cause will not help the fish and potentially spread any disease to others.

Your plants look a little sad, but I am sure they will recover just fine. You most likely will have to cut the still good looking tops of the Ludwigia and replant them, disposing of the leafless bottoms. But maybe you would like to hold off for a while, it could be that new branches will come out at the points where the leaves used to be.

Otherwise, the water looks nice and clear, the remaining Harlies look good . Now let’s just hope that the green devil will not return.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

luvmykrib - I found this on a website re: UV sterilizers:

"It's actually a very simple process using ultra violet (UV) light for rendering sterile unwanted free floating bacteria, algae and parasitic organisms, like ich. The UV Sterilizer light affects the living cells by altering the structure of the cell's nuclear material. The end result is the organisms fail to reproduce, eradicating your aquarium or pond water of these unwanted nuisances"

It basically kills off any free floating single celled organisms that float through the UV chamber.

upikabu - thanks for the advice on the ferts and sorry to hear about your rainbows.

dropsy is a new one to me. from what i've read it's not a disease itself, it's just what we call the symptoms of an unknown bacterial or viral infection. That little harley was so pathetic looking, i couldn't stand just letting her waddle-swim along like that

I still don't know if it's a good idea to treat the tank just in case... I'll ask around in The Hospital forum, see what the experts have to say...

tetra - you're right about the tenellus and the old emersed leaves, and for the most part all of those are gone. But there was new growth coming on on those plants, and some of it turned clear and mushy... other new leaves turned brown. While the green water was booming they were putting out runenrs like crazy, but they turned brown, had to remove them too. :igh:: back to the drawing board.

But maybe you would like to hold off for a while, it could be that new branches will come out at the points where the leaves used to be.

Well this is certainly what I'm hoping for. I'll give it time though. They've been without light or CO2 for several days, I'll see where they are after the weekend.

I think I'm going to have to order new plants though, because I had to throw out so many of the dead stems. I don't have nearly as much of the ludwidia or rotala as when i started... I smell a replant on the horizon

And as for the green devil, well, as tetra can testify, the green devil never really goes. Even now I can see a slight tint in the water still, even after the blackout. I'm going to use some purigen in the filter to see if I can knock out any ammonia traces and hopefully beat this thing back before it starts. CHARGE!!! ]:|



edit: oh, and that harley pic was taken with... you guessed it... the 90/2.8 macro

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 08-Dec-2005 09:08

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to further discuss the UV issue, UVB light particularly resonates with thymine, exciting the bonds in the nucleic acid and causing it to entirely dissociate. as such it opens holes in the double stranded DNA strand which can then be be replaced with another nucleic acid, or cause a frameshift mutation.

UVB isn't good for any organism.

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 08-Dec-2005 09:21

Wow, great explanation Megil... that's very helpful.


So what you're saying is, if I ran down a hallway that was lined with big UV lights, I'd die too, right?

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if I ran down a hallway that was lined with big UV lights, I'd die too, right

And why would you want to do that

Your plant situation is not even remotely that bad that you would have to end your life .

Getting new plants is always a great idea, I love to mess with plants, add more, move them, remove them again, and so forth. But - be warned - it might be a cause of GW as substrate matter gets into the water column.

Ingo

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GW as substrate matter gets into the water column
Yes, I believe that to be very true, especially if you don't have the plant mass to suck it right up. If the UV will prevent GW or get rid of it quickly after I mess with the tank it's worth the $75 bucks, the value-add here is if it prevents disease in the fish as well.



My Scapes

Agreed.. but then where does that leave one in terms of planting a tank? We all like to change our setups around every now and then. Hell, LF does it every two weeks How do certain people avoid green water when they uproot and replant? it's not as if you can gravel vac right down on the roots of the plants to suck up all that bio-matter...

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When you stir up all that gravel, what's getting into the water column, nh3, other waste, etc. So the light, combining with an imbalance of nh3 that is now in the water column and not the substrate. This then causes algae or GW. Definitely makes sense more what Bensaf always says. The amount of plant mass and/or growth plus the amount of waste stirred up will probably determine how bad the algae is. When we move things around the water always get's alittle cloudy, but it ususally clears up. But with alot of light, etc, the algae will grow.

My Scapes

I recently pulled out the remains of the UGF and released all kinds of matter into the water column and didn't get GW, So it may not be the floaties caused by replanting but the fact that nutrients aren't being used as quickly after a replant. The plants go into root producing mode and use much less of the ferts. This can take a long time for some plants and be quicker for others. I think adjusting the fert level down after replanting then gradually incresing when growth resumes may be the key. I still have never had a GW outbreak and I rearrange fairly often. I also don't use the same amounts of ferts because of my low-light.
Just an idea and one I think I've seen before.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

still have never had a GW outbreak and I rearrange fairly often. I also don't use the same amounts of ferts because of my low-light.
That's not much debate with light, the intensity of light has a huge influence on algae growth. In lowlight tanks you will have far fewer if any real algae issues.

My Scapes

How do certain people avoid green water when they uproot and replant

Simple. You should do a decent water change after every major uproot and replant. Ideally you should do this type of work before your normal weekly 50% water change.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

You should do a decent water change after every major uproot and replant

Didn't think about that specifically, but that is naturally what I do. Every one of my replants (and not every 2 weeks – more like every week ) was followed by either the normal weekly water change or a special occasion water change. Except maybe for one time when it was too late at night, but I didn’t get green water then either.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You should do a decent water change after every major uproot and replant. Ideally you should do this type of work before your normal weekly 50% water change.

Ohhhh. This explains a lot. usually when i uproot and replant I've taken about 25% or so out BEFORE the uproot. To me it's easier to do that kind of work when there's less water in the tank.


Next time I think I'll try the method that... ya know... makes sense...

Thanks


Fish look good today, so do the plants. Got some great shots of the harleys... man I love my new DSLR


Oh yeah, I got a new camrea by the way. No LF style guessing games, just wanted to shout it out

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Got some great shots of the harleys

And where are these pictures that you speak of?

Man, I guess I cannot keep up with the speed with which you get new stuff.

Ingo

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the speed with which you get new stuff.

Que?

hey, I waited over a year to get this camera, it finally came down enough in price for me to justify to myself buying it. All my nice SLR lenses were sitting until I took them out every now and then to prevent them from collecting dust. And now I can use them again. Hoorah!

And my other major recent purchase thus far has been a glass diffuser because, well -

1.) i made a lot of overtime the past few weeks
2.) i'm young and i don't have a mortgage, so i can spend money on such things
3.) that big reactor is taking up alotta space in my little 46 gallon tank and it would look purdy (and also works well, apparently.. not that that matters all that much )

I forgot to put the pics on photobucket this morning before work, too busy looking at the snow and cursing to myself that I still had to go into work ]:|

All that aside, they were basically of my big male and my big female. They're both over a year old now, so I'm thinking of setting up a little breeding set-up for them.

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Back in the saddle!

Nowher you seem to know something about cameras. I have a Canon S2 IS. It does have the ability to change lenses. How would you classify that camera. Main reason I bought it was the combination of 12x Optical Zoom and image stablizer, but I don't think it's an SLR.

My Scapes

hey tetra,

From what i've read, great camera but not an SLR. SLR means single lens reflex - the designation (as far as I know - please someone correct me if I'm wrong) has to do with the mechanics of the camera. Light goes through a lens and is reflected onto a mirror, which reflects up through a prism, which then reflects into an eyepiece. When we take a picture the mirror flips up, the shutter opens and exposes the light to a film plane or a digital image sensor.

The S2 and cameras like it dont use mirrors and other such mechanical parts; that's why digicams are nearly silent. In a few years electronic viewfinders and whatnot will become detailed and smooth enough to replace all this mirror/ mechanical business and the traditional SLR will probably become obsolete.

I remember when the S2 came out, it was a pretty big deal. IS is a fantastic feature to have.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

If it is of any help, I had to go to work today as well .

I am simply too busy to afford a day off (although I really would like one).

I really have to start to take more pictures, I haven't added any to my thread in at least 2 days .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,

So do you know what the major drawback is in my camera vs one that is an SLR? I know I can change lenses, it has a macro and super macro mode. Also I believe a polarizing type filter is benefical when taking pictures through glass, water, etc.

My Scapes

So do you know what the major drawback is in my camera vs one that is an SLR? I know I can change lenses, it has a macro and super macro mode. Also I believe a polarizing type filter is benefical when taking pictures through glass, water, etc.

There were two deal breakers for me. (BTW, I have a KM A200, a camera similar to yours - have had it a year, couldn't get used to it)

1.) Autofocus - AF is slower and less precise on digicams, I've found. In daylight conditions this usually isnt a problem, but in lower light situations - like taking tank pics - I've foudn ti very prohibitive. When your fish are darting across the tank it's much easier to focus quickly on one with an SLR than with a digicam. The same can be said for kids running across a yard, or any other moving subject situation. In those cases it needs to be pretty quick and accurate, plus you can confirm it with your own eye rather than just trust the computer.

2.) ISO quality - This is related to the size of the camera's image sensor. Digicams use smaller sensors than DSLRs. That means there are mor emegapixels packed into a smaller space - the result is very "noisy" images at high ISO settings. You can try this out yourself - set your camrea on the hgihest ISO setting possible - what is it, ISO 800? Then take a picture of something black, e.g. bring up a black webpage with a little bit of color on it for contrast on the comp and take a picture of the screen. Zoom in a little bit and you'll notice that the image looks quite grainy. On a DSLR it would appear smooth and normal. The pics on page 5 were taken at at least ISO 800, maybe 1600 and there's no noticable difference. i tried to do the same with my A200 and the results were pretty unusable.

this is important to me because higher ISO values allow you to use faster shutter speeds in low light conditions without having to use flash. The faster the shutter speed the better you're able to freeze action and avoid motion blur in pictures.


All that said i think there are advantages to digicams. There are no real mechanical parts, so they allow incredibly quick series of pictures to be taken silently. Taking 10 frames per second is something my A200 can do, but to get that feature on a DSLR you'd pay through the nose. I don't think I've even seen that high yet...

So yeah, there are other things about SLRs that I PREFER, but those are the two big things that seal the deal for me. They're just overall more flexible IMO.

edit: LF. yeah I just noticed that. There's too much talk going on in your thread, break it up a little

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 09-Dec-2005 12:27

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks Nowher, well said!

Your right about the ISO setting, even if I go to 400 I know that pic looks grainy and it's almost impossible to capture moving tank images with the slower speed.

The one thing I've noticed that helps is if you put alot of light on the tank. It's a pain, but if you move strong light right above the tank and behind it, you can shot in faster shutter speeds without the tank looking dark.

My Scapes

The one thing I've noticed that helps is if you put alot of light on the tank. It's a pain, but if you move strong light right above the tank and behind it, you can shot in faster shutter speeds without the tank looking dark.

Yep, i've done this before too. It beats using flash IMO though I haven't tried out using wireless flash on the tank yet, maybe I'll give it a try this weekend.

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Back in the saddle!

Nowher,

You know anything about a filter to make the pics clearer in macro setting? Sorry to be off topic a bit, but the photograpy is definitely related to the tank.

My Scapes

Hmmm...

would you be able to post a pic of an example you'd like to make clearer? And what do you mean by "clearer"? Do they look out of focus?

In general I find pictures look a bit sharper and clearer when i underexpose the shot just a bit, maybe by a third, no more than one full stop.

I've noticed that a number of my macro tank shots look slightly out of focus sometimes. I have no way of proving this, but I really feel like it has something to do with the bend of the glass on the bow front, it somehow distorts things, or throws the camera off. I notice that I get much better shots from the side. I never did a full side by side comparison, it'd be interesting to see though.

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Back in the saddle!

Nowher,
I don't have a specific picture, but sometimes in macro setting I guess there's not enough light to get the image in focus. The S2 even has a supermacro, but again let is a big issue.

My Scapes

Yeah, in low light it's hard for the camera to confirm focus sometimes. It's especially noticable in macro mode where depth of field is already so shallow, even being off by a little bit will make the pic look out of focus.


Anyway, here are some pics.

Two shots of one of my male harlies:





The big female:





And a yo-yo for good measure:



I would love to show a shot of my BN, but I never see her. It's no fun having a fish whose existence is only confirmed by long green strands of poop, and never by sight. ]:|[/font][/font][/font][/font]

Last edited by nowherman6 at 10-Dec-2005 14:03[/font]

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Back in the saddle!

Love the harlies! I just got 6 for my 10g tank and I love them.

I had some excitement getting them in the tank. The bag wouldn't fit in the lid of the tank so instead of lifting the hood, I cut the bag. I have always done this to get the bag open as the elastics are nearly impossible to get off! Well the bag exploded! When I checked the bag there were two missing! They weren't in the tank, I found one by accident while I was searching the puddle on the floor, but I could not find the other for a full 5 minutes. It felt like forever. I had given up and was cleaning up when I found it. I thought it was dead, then it gasped so I dropped it in the bag. It stayed upside down. So I scooped it out and it gasped again! This time I put it in the cup the betta came in and added tank water. It righted itself and started swimming. I finally added them all to the tank after acclimating them as usual and now they all seem fine. Well, one has a funny jaw, it sticks out like a massive under bite. But they're all swimming around happy as clams!
How do you tell the females from the males and the espeis from the hengelis(?). Superpet doesn't label them specifically, they are all harlequin rasboras, and I can't tell the difference.

Anyway, love the pics, soon I will borrow a camera and be able to post pics of my own, I hope. Santa is coming so I better be good then I may not have to borrow a camera!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

Congrats on the Harlies

Go to This Page and scroll down until you see a longer entry of mine. There is a detailed description of the 3 Harlequin types, with image links.

Ingo

Edit: funny - to show the common Harlies I link back to this thread , how small the fish world is !!!

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 10-Dec-2005 17:10

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo, not only did I find the difference (mine are common) but the link also helped me sex them (I think), I'm sure two are males, three are females and I can't tell with the one with the jaw problem, it seems to be looseing colour. The rest are absolutely glowing, they look so good. I can hardly wait to get the pandas, they will be wonderful contrasts to my harlies. My two little ottos are busy eating algae, non-stop little workers they are, poor things were starved in the lfs!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

hey krib,

I posted in that thread LF linked to about sexing them, it's pretty easy. Great little fish, I wish I could get more of them for my tank, but there's only so many a 36 can hold. check out LFs log to see what a huge school of them (not the exact same species but close enough) can look like. Stunning!

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Back in the saddle!

Not too much to report today - I may be one more step closer to a UV sterilizer, as I noticed another brownish/ green tint to my tank again today, even after the blackout. I may do another diatom run and I've cranked up the CO2 some more, Im just trying to get these plants growing asap. They haven't showed too much growth since the end of the blackout last week which worries me. Bad plant growth = green water, for me anyway ]:|


Oh, and a bit of bad news as well. I lost my betta the other day. Don't know what happened, he may have just been old. I've had him for over a year and he was full grown when I got him. Just kicked one day RIP, Lee (was Leela after the Futurama chanracter, until I realized it was a male)

So right now I have an empty 2.5 gallon tank, I'm trying to decide what to do with it.

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Back in the saddle!

Sorry to hear about your loss .

I'm trying to decide what to do with it

Well, if you wait a few weeks then the 2 of us could maybe start a new log-war as I might start a Nano as well.

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 12-Dec-2005 09:47

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, if you wait a few weeks then the 2 of us could maybe start a new log-war as I might start a Nano as well.

That's right, your wifes-tank-that'll-really-be-yours tank! haha, good idea. Maybe in the future, right now my next overhaul priority will be my shellie tank.

How's the nano tank idea coming along? last i remember you were still considering options...

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Back in the saddle!

Yup, still considering options

I am swamped with work and have only little time to do my usual research before buying a tank. It will have to wait a little

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I may be one more step closer to a UV sterilizer, as I noticed another brownish/ green tint to my tank again today
If you want my opinion I would take that step. I hate buying more devices for my tank that aren't necessary, but I think for some it is. Plant mass has alot to do with and I really don't have it. I have 3 main stem groupings and the rest groundcover. Although If I stood, my tank up I'd have 4 foot wisteria, which is suppose to be a great fert sucker, but overall my tank isn't heavily planted. That's the idea behind the willow branches great fert sucker. Besides the UV depending on flow rate, also kills and free floating viruses, bacteria, fungi and Protozoa so maybe I'll save some money on fish and medications.




My Scapes

I hear ya, tetra. I'm going to give it a few more weeks and see what happens. Actually, i ran the diatom again last night and cleared things up, I'll see if it comes back again. if it becomes a perpetual problem, even when the plants are growing well I may have to bite the bullet and get one. Then the big project starts - how to run a UV sterilizer while using only a HOB filter


Anyway, here's an updated pic:



A couple things - first, comparing it to the pic from last week there has been growth, but not great growth, not as much as i thought I'd see in a week. The bacopa right now is the tallest grouping, but they need a trim and replant, I still haven't removed the original emersed bottoms, they're starting to get ugly looking - plus they're a totally different leaf shape. It's kinda funny looking when you really look at it. I also trimmed away a lot more of the old tenellus leaves, it looks a lot better to me now.

I'm not sold on the left side of the tank just yet. I think I'm going to add a complementary piece of driftwood to that side, something reaching towards the top of the tank, branchier. I have to be careful to leave enough room to plant around it, but the rock/ low DW split isn't working for me right now - I think it needs something higher. That'll also mean removing the vals, i think, becuase they're barely seen at all as it is. I just don't think I'm utilizing them correctly, or as well as I can. Maybe I'll move them to my shellie tank.

Besides that, I've been doing the regular dosing of KNO3 and Kent "Grow" and ::knock on wood:: no other algae problems besides the GW.

One more question: How often do you all replace your light bulbs? Mine are over a year old and I just ordered replacement bulbs. Does intensity die off significantly as the lights get older?


and P.S. Man, I can't wait to get rid of that big reactor... come on USPS, bring me my diffuser! [/font]

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

I think your tank looks nice. For sure there is much more work to be done, but give your plants a chance to grow first. Right now I would consider your plant load medium at the best.

Adding driftwood to utilize the tank height is a good idea, but be careful that you don’t generate a major focal point at one side only. Nobody would look at the rest of the tank anymore .

Yeah, you go ahead and add that diffuser as I would like to know how it works out.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

One more question: How often do you all replace your light bulbs? Mine are over a year old and I just ordered replacement bulbs. Does intensity die off significantly as the lights get older?
I think a year is fine. You could probably keep them alot longer, but I did change mine after a year. I don't think CF bulbs decline in intensity. I wouldn't look to your bulbs as the problem if that's what you thinking.

I echo LF's commments tank looks good need more growth, even if you had more dw to the left you could eventually decide how strong of an impact it will make with plant coverage anyway.

My Scapes

I wouldn't look to your bulbs as the problem if that's what you thinking

well not THE problem but maybe A problem. I just want to be sure I'm getting the actual intensity i think I'm getting and not overestimating my amount of light.

As for growth, i know, I need to get them going a bit more. After the orignal replant I had slow growth for about a week ro so, then they took off - and so did the GW. It's a shame, because I know the ludwigia for example was beautiful behind the greenness of the water. It was pretty full looking, and almost reached the top of the tank. Then after the blackout most leaves came off and, well, the rest is history.. asll that remains is that semi-pathetic looking little bit there. Hopefully it'll bounce back soon enough.

In terms of dosing I think I may be missing something, because I've never dosed any P before. Never measured it either, but that may be what's causing some of my inconsistant growth. I mean, I've given them light, C, N, K (plus traces etc.)... P is the macro I've never dosed (which is why i asked that question in your thread tetra). I'm not looking for a magic bullet here, just making sure I've given them everything they need and i feel like this may be something I'm missing.

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Back in the saddle!

For me, P is a questionable entity at the moment. I know Bensaf and Tom Barr both say that values even above the mark of 2ppm are nothing to worry about, but how about 5ppm?

I cannot tell you to add or not to add P, but I would say it would not be a bad idea to at least measure it, in the tank and in the tab water. I have 2ppm from the tab.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,
If you don't have one get a po4 test kit use the pps system (really simple) to really get a benchmark of where you are (you too LF) and then take action.

LF if you truly have 2ppm in your tap whats the point of dosing if you want 10 to 1 with no3?



Last edited by tetratech at 13-Dec-2005 12:24

My Scapes

I think I'm going to go for it with PO4. I've been reading over Tom barr's stuff again. My mantra right now is, "There is no amount of [XX] you can add that will only be used by plants and not algae..."

he wrote in the EI article, "[Using EI] will not cause algae unless you over look something, namely CO2 or under dosing KNO3 which both of these account for about 95% of all algae issues."

I'd like to play with this idea a little bit. If he's right then you need to worry about cranking CO2 the most, and keeping KNO3 relatively high and steady. I'm going to trust my mantra and see where this goes, and if I get an algae outbreak then, well, at least I'll learn something
It can't be any worse than not being able to see your plants though the green soupy water...

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Back in the saddle!

Yup,

Last time I checked (a while ago) that is what I got - 2ppm

And Matty has high phosphates in his tab as well, he was a little upset the other day that his overall P got so high in his tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

BTW - This was a poll conducted on APC about what a good level of po4 is for mid to high light aquariums:

View Poll Results: What PO4 levels do you find the best for mid to high light aquarium?
0 ppm 0 0%
0.1 ppm 0 0%
0.25 ppm 0 0%
0.5 ppm 11.86%
1 ppm 32.20%
2 ppm 35.59%
3 ppm 6.78%
4 ppm 3.39%
5 ppm 6.78%
other 3.39%
Voters: 59.

As you could see about 80% keep it at 2ppm or under.

My Scapes

NoWherMan,

I was a bit like you when I first set up my planted 23g in that I was very reluctant to dose any PO4 (even though I didn't know how much PO4 I got) since a lot of things I read say to limit PO4 level to suppress algae. At the same time my plants (especially the stem plants) grew very slowly. Finally one day (after reading EI) I decided to try dosing Flourish Phosphorus (recommended amount in the bottle, which amounts to only 0.15ppm PO4) in conjuction with increased amount of Flourish Nitrogen. Well within just a few days the stem plant growth just exploded - at least by my standards (I don't add CO2 & have relatively low lighting). I believe that was the limiting factor in my case (found out later that I have 0ppm PO4 out of the tap).

Anyways, the moral of the story is give PO4 a try. A little amount definitely wouldn't hurt. I read it helps the plants utilize the N more effectively too.

-P

hi upikabu and thanks,

A little amount definitely wouldn't hurt.

If anything I'm actually probably a little too overzealous in my desire to dose it. It's trying something new, and that's fun for me.

I read it helps the plants utilize the N more effectively too.

I'm sure it does... and all that together creates a balance, which makes the plants thrive. And that's all we're really after, isn't it? A balance... the right amounts of essential nutrients within a certain range that allow our plants to grow well... and the sideffect of this being limited algae growth.

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Back in the saddle!

Add the PO4. You're not getting the full benefit of the other nutrients you are adding, particularly No3, without it.

PO4 is like a turbo charger. It can really get things going. It speeds up No3 uptake, watch for faster increased pearling.

Doesn't matter what's in your tap add it anyway.

The PO4 in tap may fluctuate, test kit could be dodgy. The only way to be sure it's there is to add it yourself, cross it off the list of things to worry about.

Whether it's 2ppm or 3ppm won't make any differnce to the plants and more importantly algae. Hell they'd be happy as pigs in the proverbial muck with 0.00005 ppm of PO4, or anything else. Why would 2 or 3 ppm make a difference ?
Remember they are single cell presbyterians or was it episcopalians, anyway they're small

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

C'mon Bensaf, they are single cell Protists dammit!!!! ]:|


But seriously, that's what I was thinking anyway. There's no amount that plants can use that algae can't, so add it anyway.

I would still like to test though, just to see what my current levels are, what the tap is etc. Now if only I can find a store that sells Phosphate test kits. The island of Manhatten, home to thousands of businesses and a million people, and the only fish stores open past 7:30 is Petland Discounts ]:|]:|

"Do you have a phosphate test kit?"

"Nitrate? We have nitrate..."

"No no, phosphate..."

" :ilence::.... we have nitrate, ammonia, pH..."

Wargh. ]:|

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Back in the saddle!

Uh, Hm,

I dare to slightly disagree with Bensaf.

Yeah, I buy the 2 to 3ppm theory and that this might not make much of a difference, but how about 5 or 10ppm? I don’t know.

For example, I think none of us so far has questions that too much Iron is bad (thread algae ]:|), but if algae only need tiny amounts why would additional Iron be bad?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I dare to slightly disagree with Bensaf.
Oh my G**



My Scapes

I dare to slightly disagree with Bensaf.
Oh my G**

A guy gets a couple more gold stars and look what happens


Hey, I never ever claimed to be right about anything. Anyone can disagree.......just don't make a habit out of it

Ingo has a point but c'mon who's talking about 5-10ppm ? We certainly aren't going to add that much and not many taps, if any, will have that kind of level. We add about 0.5ppm a time. No big deal even with tap that has 2-3ppm.

Iron levels getting too high can cause problems , not as far as algae that I know of, but in terms of blocking the plants uptake of other nutrients.Iron doesn't hang around long, oxidises quickly unless using a good chelating agaent.

High levels of a lot of nutrients will cause problems with plant health. But the levels are relatively high and a good bit beyond anything we are adding. Iron is probably the dodgiest, above 2ppm may cause problems.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

just don't make a habit out of it

Ok boss, will try

who's talking about 5-10ppm

Well, I am. Within only a few weeks after I set up the 125G and having dosed Phosphates, I had phosphates of 10ppm and more, but that was where my scale ended. Only not fertilizing Phosphates for almost 2 weeks made the level fall down to 1 to 2ppm again. Then I stopped measuring but started Phosphates again, in lesser amounts. And, what can I say - last weekend’s measure was 5ppm.

I know my test kit is not calibrated, but having seen all colors of the measuring spectrum I know that the kit itself basically works.

There you go .

Ingo

EDIT: initially said Plantex, but meant the corrected Phosphates

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 14-Dec-2005 07:25

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, while I'm waiting for my plants to grow in (again) my mind has been wandering off into thinking about my fish stock. Right now I have a few ideas in mind. The one main thing right now is I think I'm going to trade in my BN. The other options are:

- add 8-10 of these http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/lemon.xml

-or, add 2-3 of these http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/bolivian.xml

-or, add a few more harlies and 1-2 rams

-or, any combination of the above

I really would like to add a new smaller schools and I really like the lemons, I'm just afraid of overstocking. Sometimes I look at my tank and I think, holy cow, there's a not of fish in there... but most times i look at I think, holy cow, that tank is empty. Plus with the density of plants I plan on maintaining i think i have a little bit of wiggle room. Out of the options above, what I would like most of all I think is:

14 harlies (already there)
4 yo-yos (already there)
8-10 lemons
1-2(?) bolivian rams

That's all to go along with healthy rotala and ludwigia of course

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Back in the saddle!

Well, sounds good to me

14 harlies - stay rather small
4 yo-yos - fine
8 lemons - stay rather small
2 bolivian rams - male and female please

But wait a while though until all is settled.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Fish stock break is over, back to the plants

New diffuser update!

Got the new glass diffuser today, put it in and i like it already. I have it set under the outflow of my HOB filter, so the bubbles get pushed around the tank pretty well. Here are some pics:


Propped up against my wallet, recently thinned from buying Christmas presents and... well... glass diffusers and the like:



A close-up of the diffuser:



And here's a shot of the whole tank (with a before pic after for comparison). Note the giant empty space on the right side where the reactor used to be... which will soon be filled in by plants:




I think it looks better...

Also started dosing phosphate this evening. I didn't test yet but to hell with it, I feel like adding it. The tank water is already starting to turn green again, I figure this can't make it any worse, and if anything po4 could be my limiting factor. [/font][/font][/font][/font]

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Yup, I agree, it looks a lot better .

Where do all the bubbles in the tank come from? Did you just do a water change is that all from the diffuser?

Also, I noticed this already on the last picture, you always have quite a bit of debris sticking to your filter intake. Do you loose plant mass that quickly? What is the reason behind having the filter intake only half way down the tank? Wouldn’t that increase the chance of stale areas close to the bottom?

I wonder how quickly the diffuser gets “dirty” now and what has to be done to clean it. If this is all not a problem then I might just give it a try (I would need 2 and would have to split the CO2 line).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I wonder how quickly the diffuser gets “dirty” now and what has to be done to clean it.

No seriously why do I bother ?

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/66955.html?200512100533


Clean them every 2 weeks.Even if you think they don't need it. Just drop in a 50% bleach solution for 10 minutes. Rinse. Soak in tap water with some anti chlorine conditioner for another 10 mins and it's good as new. Actually mine worked even better when i first did this. Couldn't be easier.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks LF,

Where do all the bubbles in the tank come from? Did you just do a water change is that all from the diffuser?

It's all from the diffuser. However, i have to add that this pic was taken right after start-up of the diffuser. The bubbles flying around the tank eventually cleared and now the tank looks like normal. I'm not sure why it happened that way, but after a few minutes of running things didnt look so bubbly anymore. Plus, when plants grow in mroe I plan on having them semi- cover the diffuser, as Bensaf suggested. Hopefully that'll keep the bubbles down and allow them mor etime to absorb into the water.

Also, I noticed this already on the last picture, you always have quite a bit of debris sticking to your filter intake. Do you loose plant mass that quickly

I'm not sure if I lose it that quickly. I'm sure a lot of that was excess leaves floating around from when i did the blackout that I hadn't pciked off yet (the first pic I mean). In the most recent one, I'm not sure why. The plants look healthy enough, they're not shedding leaves. it may just be leaf litter that i missed after pruning etc.

What is the reason behind having the filter intake only half way down the tank? Wouldn’t that increase the chance of stale areas close to the bottom?

Errr, because I never thought to put it any lower Actually, the filter didn't come with an extender to get it down lower, I suppose i should look for one. I haven't noticed any dead areas on that side of the tank. If anything that side gets more movement than anywhere else because of the outflow.

As i said earlier, I dosed po4 yesterday and thios morning I swear my hygro looks bigger. Wishful thinking? Maybe...

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Back in the saddle!

Nowher, I might have missed this. I know Bensaf said one of the suppliers is aquaticeco I believe. Is that where you purchased the diffusor?

My Scapes

I know Bensaf said one of the suppliers is aquaticeco I believe. Is that where you purchased the diffusor?

That was Tom. Aquaticeco has the Sweetwater airstones, I don't think they have diffusers.

Drs.Fosters and Smith have them, Aquabotanic is having a sale on them but I don't think they have the stock yet.

Nowhere what brand of diffuser is that? Don't recognise it.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Actually just checked the site aquaticeco has this:



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

and the Drs has this:



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Got the diffuser from Aquaticeco. It's actually different than the one in the pic, but frankly i dont care. I saw more pearling today than ive ever seen, which suggests better absorbtion of the CO2 to me. It seems to be working really well, helix or not. In mine it looks like theres a little chamber where the CO2 pops out, then it narrows down, the goes into the bell and then through the disc

I originally ordered from aquatic-store but I received a nice email from I think mark is his name, saying they were basically flooded with orders and some stuff was on back order until after the holiday. Nice people there, I'd order from them again.

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Back in the saddle!

. I saw more pearling today than ive ever seen, which suggests better absorbtion of the CO2 to me. It seems to be working really well, helix or not.

The aquatieco diffuser is the same one I'm using. I don't think the designs make much difference. It all comes down to how well the ceramic disc works. They are probably all buying their components from the same place anyway.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Are you guys using the 3" or the 6". Does size matter


My Scapes