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Agreed.. but then where does that leave one in terms of planting a tank? We all like to change our setups around every now and then. Hell, LF does it every two weeks How do certain people avoid green water when they uproot and replant? it's not as if you can gravel vac right down on the roots of the plants to suck up all that bio-matter...

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When you stir up all that gravel, what's getting into the water column, nh3, other waste, etc. So the light, combining with an imbalance of nh3 that is now in the water column and not the substrate. This then causes algae or GW. Definitely makes sense more what Bensaf always says. The amount of plant mass and/or growth plus the amount of waste stirred up will probably determine how bad the algae is. When we move things around the water always get's alittle cloudy, but it ususally clears up. But with alot of light, etc, the algae will grow.

My Scapes

I recently pulled out the remains of the UGF and released all kinds of matter into the water column and didn't get GW, So it may not be the floaties caused by replanting but the fact that nutrients aren't being used as quickly after a replant. The plants go into root producing mode and use much less of the ferts. This can take a long time for some plants and be quicker for others. I think adjusting the fert level down after replanting then gradually incresing when growth resumes may be the key. I still have never had a GW outbreak and I rearrange fairly often. I also don't use the same amounts of ferts because of my low-light.
Just an idea and one I think I've seen before.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

still have never had a GW outbreak and I rearrange fairly often. I also don't use the same amounts of ferts because of my low-light.
That's not much debate with light, the intensity of light has a huge influence on algae growth. In lowlight tanks you will have far fewer if any real algae issues.

My Scapes

How do certain people avoid green water when they uproot and replant

Simple. You should do a decent water change after every major uproot and replant. Ideally you should do this type of work before your normal weekly 50% water change.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

You should do a decent water change after every major uproot and replant

Didn't think about that specifically, but that is naturally what I do. Every one of my replants (and not every 2 weeks – more like every week ) was followed by either the normal weekly water change or a special occasion water change. Except maybe for one time when it was too late at night, but I didn’t get green water then either.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You should do a decent water change after every major uproot and replant. Ideally you should do this type of work before your normal weekly 50% water change.

Ohhhh. This explains a lot. usually when i uproot and replant I've taken about 25% or so out BEFORE the uproot. To me it's easier to do that kind of work when there's less water in the tank.


Next time I think I'll try the method that... ya know... makes sense...

Thanks


Fish look good today, so do the plants. Got some great shots of the harleys... man I love my new DSLR


Oh yeah, I got a new camrea by the way. No LF style guessing games, just wanted to shout it out

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Got some great shots of the harleys

And where are these pictures that you speak of?

Man, I guess I cannot keep up with the speed with which you get new stuff.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

the speed with which you get new stuff.

Que?

hey, I waited over a year to get this camera, it finally came down enough in price for me to justify to myself buying it. All my nice SLR lenses were sitting until I took them out every now and then to prevent them from collecting dust. And now I can use them again. Hoorah!

And my other major recent purchase thus far has been a glass diffuser because, well -

1.) i made a lot of overtime the past few weeks
2.) i'm young and i don't have a mortgage, so i can spend money on such things
3.) that big reactor is taking up alotta space in my little 46 gallon tank and it would look purdy (and also works well, apparently.. not that that matters all that much )

I forgot to put the pics on photobucket this morning before work, too busy looking at the snow and cursing to myself that I still had to go into work ]:|

All that aside, they were basically of my big male and my big female. They're both over a year old now, so I'm thinking of setting up a little breeding set-up for them.

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Nowher you seem to know something about cameras. I have a Canon S2 IS. It does have the ability to change lenses. How would you classify that camera. Main reason I bought it was the combination of 12x Optical Zoom and image stablizer, but I don't think it's an SLR.

My Scapes

hey tetra,

From what i've read, great camera but not an SLR. SLR means single lens reflex - the designation (as far as I know - please someone correct me if I'm wrong) has to do with the mechanics of the camera. Light goes through a lens and is reflected onto a mirror, which reflects up through a prism, which then reflects into an eyepiece. When we take a picture the mirror flips up, the shutter opens and exposes the light to a film plane or a digital image sensor.

The S2 and cameras like it dont use mirrors and other such mechanical parts; that's why digicams are nearly silent. In a few years electronic viewfinders and whatnot will become detailed and smooth enough to replace all this mirror/ mechanical business and the traditional SLR will probably become obsolete.

I remember when the S2 came out, it was a pretty big deal. IS is a fantastic feature to have.

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NowherMan6,

If it is of any help, I had to go to work today as well .

I am simply too busy to afford a day off (although I really would like one).

I really have to start to take more pictures, I haven't added any to my thread in at least 2 days .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,

So do you know what the major drawback is in my camera vs one that is an SLR? I know I can change lenses, it has a macro and super macro mode. Also I believe a polarizing type filter is benefical when taking pictures through glass, water, etc.

My Scapes

So do you know what the major drawback is in my camera vs one that is an SLR? I know I can change lenses, it has a macro and super macro mode. Also I believe a polarizing type filter is benefical when taking pictures through glass, water, etc.

There were two deal breakers for me. (BTW, I have a KM A200, a camera similar to yours - have had it a year, couldn't get used to it)

1.) Autofocus - AF is slower and less precise on digicams, I've found. In daylight conditions this usually isnt a problem, but in lower light situations - like taking tank pics - I've foudn ti very prohibitive. When your fish are darting across the tank it's much easier to focus quickly on one with an SLR than with a digicam. The same can be said for kids running across a yard, or any other moving subject situation. In those cases it needs to be pretty quick and accurate, plus you can confirm it with your own eye rather than just trust the computer.

2.) ISO quality - This is related to the size of the camera's image sensor. Digicams use smaller sensors than DSLRs. That means there are mor emegapixels packed into a smaller space - the result is very "noisy" images at high ISO settings. You can try this out yourself - set your camrea on the hgihest ISO setting possible - what is it, ISO 800? Then take a picture of something black, e.g. bring up a black webpage with a little bit of color on it for contrast on the comp and take a picture of the screen. Zoom in a little bit and you'll notice that the image looks quite grainy. On a DSLR it would appear smooth and normal. The pics on page 5 were taken at at least ISO 800, maybe 1600 and there's no noticable difference. i tried to do the same with my A200 and the results were pretty unusable.

this is important to me because higher ISO values allow you to use faster shutter speeds in low light conditions without having to use flash. The faster the shutter speed the better you're able to freeze action and avoid motion blur in pictures.


All that said i think there are advantages to digicams. There are no real mechanical parts, so they allow incredibly quick series of pictures to be taken silently. Taking 10 frames per second is something my A200 can do, but to get that feature on a DSLR you'd pay through the nose. I don't think I've even seen that high yet...

So yeah, there are other things about SLRs that I PREFER, but those are the two big things that seal the deal for me. They're just overall more flexible IMO.

edit: LF. yeah I just noticed that. There's too much talk going on in your thread, break it up a little

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 09-Dec-2005 12:27

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Thanks Nowher, well said!

Your right about the ISO setting, even if I go to 400 I know that pic looks grainy and it's almost impossible to capture moving tank images with the slower speed.

The one thing I've noticed that helps is if you put alot of light on the tank. It's a pain, but if you move strong light right above the tank and behind it, you can shot in faster shutter speeds without the tank looking dark.

My Scapes

The one thing I've noticed that helps is if you put alot of light on the tank. It's a pain, but if you move strong light right above the tank and behind it, you can shot in faster shutter speeds without the tank looking dark.

Yep, i've done this before too. It beats using flash IMO though I haven't tried out using wireless flash on the tank yet, maybe I'll give it a try this weekend.

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Nowher,

You know anything about a filter to make the pics clearer in macro setting? Sorry to be off topic a bit, but the photograpy is definitely related to the tank.

My Scapes

Hmmm...

would you be able to post a pic of an example you'd like to make clearer? And what do you mean by "clearer"? Do they look out of focus?

In general I find pictures look a bit sharper and clearer when i underexpose the shot just a bit, maybe by a third, no more than one full stop.

I've noticed that a number of my macro tank shots look slightly out of focus sometimes. I have no way of proving this, but I really feel like it has something to do with the bend of the glass on the bow front, it somehow distorts things, or throws the camera off. I notice that I get much better shots from the side. I never did a full side by side comparison, it'd be interesting to see though.

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Nowher,
I don't have a specific picture, but sometimes in macro setting I guess there's not enough light to get the image in focus. The S2 even has a supermacro, but again let is a big issue.

My Scapes

Yeah, in low light it's hard for the camera to confirm focus sometimes. It's especially noticable in macro mode where depth of field is already so shallow, even being off by a little bit will make the pic look out of focus.


Anyway, here are some pics.

Two shots of one of my male harlies:





The big female:





And a yo-yo for good measure:



I would love to show a shot of my BN, but I never see her. It's no fun having a fish whose existence is only confirmed by long green strands of poop, and never by sight. ]:|[/font][/font][/font][/font]

Last edited by nowherman6 at 10-Dec-2005 14:03[/font]

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Love the harlies! I just got 6 for my 10g tank and I love them.

I had some excitement getting them in the tank. The bag wouldn't fit in the lid of the tank so instead of lifting the hood, I cut the bag. I have always done this to get the bag open as the elastics are nearly impossible to get off! Well the bag exploded! When I checked the bag there were two missing! They weren't in the tank, I found one by accident while I was searching the puddle on the floor, but I could not find the other for a full 5 minutes. It felt like forever. I had given up and was cleaning up when I found it. I thought it was dead, then it gasped so I dropped it in the bag. It stayed upside down. So I scooped it out and it gasped again! This time I put it in the cup the betta came in and added tank water. It righted itself and started swimming. I finally added them all to the tank after acclimating them as usual and now they all seem fine. Well, one has a funny jaw, it sticks out like a massive under bite. But they're all swimming around happy as clams!
How do you tell the females from the males and the espeis from the hengelis(?). Superpet doesn't label them specifically, they are all harlequin rasboras, and I can't tell the difference.

Anyway, love the pics, soon I will borrow a camera and be able to post pics of my own, I hope. Santa is coming so I better be good then I may not have to borrow a camera!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

luvmykrib,

Congrats on the Harlies

Go to This Page and scroll down until you see a longer entry of mine. There is a detailed description of the 3 Harlequin types, with image links.

Ingo

Edit: funny - to show the common Harlies I link back to this thread , how small the fish world is !!!

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 10-Dec-2005 17:10

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo, not only did I find the difference (mine are common) but the link also helped me sex them (I think), I'm sure two are males, three are females and I can't tell with the one with the jaw problem, it seems to be looseing colour. The rest are absolutely glowing, they look so good. I can hardly wait to get the pandas, they will be wonderful contrasts to my harlies. My two little ottos are busy eating algae, non-stop little workers they are, poor things were starved in the lfs!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

hey krib,

I posted in that thread LF linked to about sexing them, it's pretty easy. Great little fish, I wish I could get more of them for my tank, but there's only so many a 36 can hold. check out LFs log to see what a huge school of them (not the exact same species but close enough) can look like. Stunning!

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Not too much to report today - I may be one more step closer to a UV sterilizer, as I noticed another brownish/ green tint to my tank again today, even after the blackout. I may do another diatom run and I've cranked up the CO2 some more, Im just trying to get these plants growing asap. They haven't showed too much growth since the end of the blackout last week which worries me. Bad plant growth = green water, for me anyway ]:|


Oh, and a bit of bad news as well. I lost my betta the other day. Don't know what happened, he may have just been old. I've had him for over a year and he was full grown when I got him. Just kicked one day RIP, Lee (was Leela after the Futurama chanracter, until I realized it was a male)

So right now I have an empty 2.5 gallon tank, I'm trying to decide what to do with it.

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Sorry to hear about your loss .

I'm trying to decide what to do with it

Well, if you wait a few weeks then the 2 of us could maybe start a new log-war as I might start a Nano as well.

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 12-Dec-2005 09:47

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Well, if you wait a few weeks then the 2 of us could maybe start a new log-war as I might start a Nano as well.

That's right, your wifes-tank-that'll-really-be-yours tank! haha, good idea. Maybe in the future, right now my next overhaul priority will be my shellie tank.

How's the nano tank idea coming along? last i remember you were still considering options...

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Yup, still considering options

I am swamped with work and have only little time to do my usual research before buying a tank. It will have to wait a little

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

To all those who have done major replants of an already established tank:

I plan on doing one of these next week. I'm not happy with my aquascaping and my selection of plants, and just witht he tank in general. I want to give it some new character In order to do this, however, it's going to require me messing around with a year old tank. In your experiences, how have you gone about the break-down process?

- do you do it with the tank full, half empty or more? I imagine a lot of "gunk" (helpful as it may be, it's all still pretty gunky) will be turned up when I start to move gravel around and pull up existing structures and plants(especially my big sword), that's why I was thinking maybe it's better to empty about half the tank. But at the same time I don't want to stress the fish out too much.

- Fish in or out? As I said, I don't want to put them under too much stress with the re-arranging etc, but right now I don't have a bucket to put them in or anything like that... is it worth investing in for this purpose?

-and if it's better to remove a good portion of the water when doing this, how would I go about keeping my filter alive over the course of a few hours?

Thanks for any replies. I'm getting psyched about re-doing my tank. Something's been lacking from it for a long time... most likely a lack of talent on the part of our humble aquascaper ... and I want to try to get it right with a major overhaul, rather than try to put it all together piece by piece like I've been doing in the past. And I'd be lying if I said I haven't been at least a little inspired by the logs posted by LF and TT and others (we're got tons of beautiful tanks on here by the way, congrats to you all )

Anyway, thanks again for any advice.



Last edited by nowherman6 at 09-Nov-2005 18:39

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And are you suggesting my fish have ich??? Sir, I am insulted!
I would never suggest such a thing, but if they did get it, which I'm sure they won't, you might be able to cure it without meds.

My Scapes

Yeah sure, the wood is losing patience, not you

Glad to see you back, and even better that you came back to a tank that is almost clear now.

I think your approach with the Repens is good. I, at least for the moment, like mine half high as well, and although it is in my background I will not let it grow to full height anymore. There is one problem though with that, at least for me. It is branching out nicely but while doing so shades the bottom more and more. As a result the lower leaves fall off and when it is time to dispose of the tops (too much branching make very weak stem parts) I will have very ugly bottoms. I think one way to control that would be to anticipate the time for it and let the Repens grow taller for 3 to 5 weeks beforehand.

I will also add one more Repens feature in my thread in a few minutes, make sure to see it .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Agree with Wings, they move around a lot but I
ve never seen them damage anything. I have to believe they nibble sometimes, just like other fish, but they're too small to seriously uproot anything. If you get any bottom dwellers like them, bascially kiss any eggs goodbye, they'll seek them out and destroy them quickly.

And on your advice I found a way to slow down the flow rate of the powerhead - which i should have noticed before - but now it's coming out much much slower, so maybe that'll have an effect.

I'm still waiting on the moss to set up my DW piece. It's been sitting there, all ready for the big show, and I'm sure it's starting to lose patience

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tetratech,

I have Skunk Loaches in my tank and they don't seem to do much damage. The do at times swim around like crazy though.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Nowher,
Tank definitely is looking clear, as I said your flow must be very fast otherwise I think it would have been crystal a while ago. Wait to you see the tank in another week or so. You'll have to put your hand in it to make sure there is water. One nice thing about GW and I'm not sure why this, but it seems to prevent other algaes from appearing. Most people with GW only have GW and no other algae.

From the pics the plants still look healthy. From a scaping point of view I think you need something to tie it all together, but I think you said more DW is going in. Once the DW is in your could probably fine-tune around it and bring everthing together.

BTW - Nice loach. I was always tempted to get those, but I was afraid the Yo-Yo might get psyc-o with my plants.

Last edited by tetratech at 17-Jan-2006 21:45

My Scapes

OK, got back from a little vacation and I had to do some trimming. I wasn't able to dose anything while gone, so i think i bottomed out on something because, I dunno, the plants just seemed off - can't really explain it, maybe some were more stingy than normal. So anyway, on to the pics, note the new aquascape - it's temporary but i just thought I'd try it out.

I think this qualifies as clear tank water, even though there's a hint of cloudiness:



Basically, I moved the vals, trimmed the bacopa and rotala, did a major weeding of the tenellus because they'd gotten so thick, and trimmed the ludwigia.

Here's a side shot:



And few shots, close ups of the rotala:





I've been learning more about the plants I like/ dont like as they've grown in. For example, I don't like hygro and I removed it from the scape. It's just too hard to keep it under control, it's quite invasive and big leaved, hard to blend it in with other plants. I think proper use of it would be to use it as a main plant, in corners etc., but to blend is very hard.

Also, I no longer think ludwigia repens is a stand alone background plant. It's too stringy when tall, flows around too much, similar to hygro polysperma. I think from now on I'm going to use it as a midground plant and keep it short in small groups, similar to like so:




And finally, for the hell of it, a yo-yo:




And so the tank continues to morph... [/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]

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Any time you dont have to use icdh meds, thats a positive. And any time that same device that allows you not to have to use ich meds aslo clears obnoxious single celled free floating protists, all the better! As you've said in your log, the parasite killing function is just an added bonus


Anyway, Ive been away the past few days, it's going to be a few more days until I'm back on again - though i should have some good stuff to post re:my new mosses

Take care everyone!

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The funny thing about the UV gph flow rate is that on the box it says up to 300gph which is an awful lot.

And are you suggesting my fish have ich??? Sir, I am insulted!

Actually, I had ich once and didnt lose a fish and that was way before plating the tank. Another thumbs up for stress free planted tanks


...and UVs...

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I think it'll look much better if I keep it lower rather than high, and keep it in a few small bushes around the DW rather than one large one.
Yeah I think I see where your going. That should look really nice. There are just so many ways to do a scape. That's what's great about, none I exactly alike.

Your powerhead is about as strong as my eheim (185gph) and your's is dedicated to the uv. I think that's a big reason it took longer to clear. Another advantage is ich or other parasites in the water column. You might not have to use meds anymore. Once the ich leaves the fish and is in the water column it should get destroyed by the UV as well.

My Scapes

Thanks guys it is nice to actually see what's going on in the tank now.

LF, the water isn't green, i was actually playing around with color channels in photoshop and emphisized green a little too much. It's more whiteish cloudy than anything, no green tint.

Re: the aquascaping - the right is very cool looking right now. Very full. I'm starting to see which plants I like and Which I don't like. For example, I'm not too high on the polysperma - which is unsurprising since I wasnt high on it when I had it earlier. Too invasive, not enough character. It's colored up nicely, the tips have turned reddish, even at low levels, so I guess my micros are at a good place.

i do like the rotala a lot, it grows in very sturdy, it's easy to build with. The wisteria adds some nice shape, mine is growing up, not creeping like tetras, but i still like it. And I like the bacopa for now too.

On the left side, that's where the big DW will go once I cure it some more and add some moss to it. the left is a little harder to deal with because of the filter outflow. The luwigia looks great, but it moves around a lot in the flow. I think it'll look much better if I keep it lower rather than high, and keep it in a few small bushes around the DW rather than one large one.

And I have to say, the vals have grown on me a little bit...


Also, the flow for the UV is I think 150 or 175 GPH from the powerhead... One of those.


Last edited by NowherMan6 at 13-Jan-2006 09:54

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Your tank is growing in very nicely and the green water at this stage gives it actually a nice natural appearance, like a section of the Amazon in the morning hours. In particular that floater helps with that impression.

About the plant: Broad Leaf Ludwigia Repens, my guess. I had one coming in with my narrow leaf as well. Although I have to say that mine only grows slightly slower than the narrow leaf.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Looking good Nowhere, plants look really good.

My first thought on the scape now that I could see it
I love the right side, really nice the way it looks sloped up. I think it would look great to duplicate the right side on the left and then have DW poking through randomly.

BTW - I know your tank was really green, but I'm curious what the flow rate is on your powerhead that is running the UV.



My Scapes

Bingo! Good job tetra

I always liked that line because jeff Goldbloom says it, and he's fantastic in that role. In every movie he makes he should play a neurotic geek.


Anyway, a what plant is this question: The plant below came in a bunch of ludwigia repens, but it grows much slower and, well, doesnt look at all like it any more. Any guesses? it's the one dead center:




And another shot of the tank clearing. This was actually two days ago, it's since gotten even clearer:



That GW outbreak I had was awful, glad it's behind me [/font][/font]

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Life always finds a way, huh? (name the movie that's from... )

Jurrasic Park That's one of my favorite lines. In the aquarium business we like to say "Algae always finds a way".

I guess it's not that different, sine algae is a primitive from of life.


Last edited by tetratech at 11-Jan-2006 12:51

My Scapes

It would be wild if that's what it turns out to be. Not impossible though. When i redid the tank I left that layer of watery mulm sitting there when I put in the new gravel. It's perfectly possible that a little piece of crypt or sword was left over in the bit of water and got pushed around towards the front, where it was able to get some light from outside the tank. Life always finds a way, huh? (name the movie that's from... )

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My guess would be that it is a sword of some kind

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Another quick update, this time on the little plant growing right up against the glass. I almost don't believe it but it's starting to look like a crypt wendtii leaf





This one shows a bit more detail:



Notice the shape of the leaf. Any thoughts? I know it's still kinda hard to tell...[/font]

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 11-Jan-2006 08:56[/font]

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Glad I could help in some way. I guess if your not doing a planted tank and just putting a few angels in like a breeding tank. there's considerable more room, but IMO no beauty in it.

My Scapes

Truth be told, I was going to get an angel before you posted that picture in a thread a while back. It looks huge! To keep a full grown angel in a tank like that... of course you can do it and it's fine for the fish, but it just looks silly and clumsy. And actually, it was that thread which got me seriously thinking of re-doing my tank... so in a way, if it weren't for your giant angel fish, I'd have never gone through with this re-do. I'd like to shake his fin

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Thanks nowher, hopefully I've learned something. It would be nice to have a tank just to play with. You would also need a large inventory of hardscape to try different setups. Notice how big the Angelfish looks in the tank. I just don't see the beauty of keeping angels in small tanks.


My Scapes

46 BW not big enough.......I am trying to work with a 40G long...

I know, I didn't mean to imply that our tanksa re that small, but for what we're trying to do here, create pleasing aquscapes that don't look crowded, that make the tank look larger than it actually is, there are an awful lot of plants out there that you'd think would work well, but really work much better in much larger tanks. We can't all have 125s and 200 gallon monsters...


tetra, nice pic of your old tank. I can see why you started a new one though - comparing your new tank to the 46, the 46 really looks flat, just those two contrasting shades of green. What's funyn is I can see how it inspired your new tank, with the big rock mound on the left (now in the center) and the DW branch poking out the right/ back

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46 BW not big enough.......I am trying to work with a 40G long...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yeah,

Let's wait and see the driftwood first before we think about what plants would accomodate it, good thought.

Ingo

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It really is hard to work with in a little 46 gallon
Speaking of hygro taking over, this is my old 46 with lots of it. Also I wouldn't worry about the gw coming back. If you stir things up the alge cells are continuing being zapped by the UV so they shouldn't be able to build up in enough numbers to make a bloom.



tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 09-Jan-2006 07:29[/font]

My Scapes

Good question, LF. I have some vision of what I want to do, but a lot will depend on how the new driftwood works out. Right now you'll notice there's a big empty space right in the middle of the tank (see pic below) - that's where I figure the branchy part of the DW will go. I know I'm going to try using moss as a bit of ground cover and to highlight the driftwood, but I don't know of any other larger plants to use.



But I'm still looking for a different kind of plant/ plants to fill the void a bit. I was going to ask you all about it on here but it seemed like I was getting ahead of myself a bit I really have no ideas though

It's funny about the hygro, I remember Bensaf said at some point, maybe in this thread even, that hygro is hard to keep under control in a small tank like this and I never understood it until now. The leaves just seem too big for the tank, and that's ignoring how fast it can take over. It really is hard to work with in a little 46 gallon.


Oh yeah, and the whole point of the UV is that little single celled organisms die and dont come back, so I dont think it'll ignite another GW bloom....

... however, if it does, as tetra said in his thread earlier, look on ebay for a bit planted tank set up, complete with UV, CO2 set up and PC lighting. [/font]

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

If the vals are going, and maybe even the hygro, do you have a vision on plants that should replace them or are you going to fill it out with the remaining plants?

Ingo

PS: Could this change invoke another GW?

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That algae does actually look good on the dw, sometimes you get lucky.

I'm glad the tank is clearing. Your flow rate must be faster than mine, that's probably why it's taking longer to clear.

My Scapes

Yes the cloudiness is still there, but it's definetely going away. And the plants are more than happy it seems - CO2 is pushing, I'm still dosing macros and micros, there's no reason for them to NOT be happy

It's funny you made the comparison of the haur algae to moss because I just ordered a few different kinds of moss from aquabid: java, erect and mini moss. I want to experiment with them, plus I'm going to use them a good deal in my little 7 gal. in the works.

As for this tank, I have more work to do on it as well. I don't like the symetrical tenellus set-up, with front row split between left and right. I think I'm going to thin it out or remove it from the left, maybe have it sporadically in the center region, and keep it on the right in front of the DW. I'm also going to move those rocks around and push them back where I'm adding that large branchy piece of DW. Finally, the vals are going to go, the make no impact at all and I think they'll be better suited to the little tank. The hygro is up in the air, dunno if I'll keep it.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Nice montage of tank over period of time, and quite a few very green pictures in between. I didn’t know you had GW before you started this log. Your tank sure went through some major changes over time. From the last picture in the second last post I see that it is getting better now but it is still there. As long as the fish are happy and the plants are growing it can take all the time it want to clear up.

Yeah, your hair algae does look good, almost like a miniature version of a moss. Maybe you can market it. How long did it take to reach that size and does it spread?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The rotala tops have turned this magnificent bright reddish color, really beautiful. Here are some shots of the rotala with harlies:






And one unwelcome sight - some little tufts of green hair algae on the driftwood... though it actually looks kind of nice:

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Back in the saddle!

Whoops, guess I haven't updated in a few days. I've actually been away in sunny LAWN-GUY-LAND visiting family.

I've been working on pulling some old pics together because i want to put them together in a montage. Of all the logs going on right now, I think I have one of, if not the oldest tank going (not in current form, but in existence period) and it's gone through so many changes. Here is is!

















and finally, today:

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NowherMan6,

What is the latest on the GW? You haven't added an update in over 2 days.

Is it gone?

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 08-Jan-2006 05:59

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am actually starting to get some holes in my Giant Hygro. I had this problem back when it was in my 20 gallon set up. Once I got it in my 40 gallon they went away. Maybe it is time to break down and start dosing!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks for the clarification on the leaf holes fellas.

See, I thought that was a lot of PO4 too, but I wasn't thinking in terms of ratios. Whenever I test (I know, it could be unreliable) it never comes up more than 1ppm, so it's not exactly high. Maybe that just means my N is still low?

Where's tetras test calibration method again? He never reminds us of how useful that test can be...







And my glass is perfectly clean, it's just that one spot, I swear!


And if you don't believe that, I was working on the tank last night and I forgot to clean the glass after some spillage!


And if you don't believe that... well... I don't clean the glass as much as I should... happy?

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 05-Jan-2006 12:58

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Back in the saddle!

Older leaves having holes means low K, not N

Now that you know that go back to cleaning the glass (good joke, I love it) .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

older leaves on my hyro are developing little holes, which I understand means low N? Or am I wrong on that?
I believe some holes is a potassium deficiency. I think low no3 would bring yellowish and stunting.

EDIT: I just looked again at your po4 dosing are you doing 1ml once a week. That's a big hit. Even if it's only once a week it's still about 1 to 3 with your no3 dosing that should be more like 1 to 10.

Last edited by tetratech at 05-Jan-2006 10:57

My Scapes

I noticed the dried water drops on the outside of the glass

Well, we can sit here all day and point fingers but... I can't, because I have to go clean my glass...


tetra, thanks for the info, I didn't know lean N would make them turn reddish. But like you I think I have a similar problem, a few of the older leaves on my hyro are developing little holes, which I understand means low N? Or am I wrong on that?

In any case i see what you mean... which is why I think I'll just move some of the rotala and ludwigia around to add some contrast.

Right now I'm dosing:

1/4 tsp KNO3 every other day
1/16-1/8 K2SO4
1ml phosphate about once a week

fourish on off days from the macros

I actually have a little bottle of flourish iron from when i had swords in the tank, but last time I used that I was promptly treated to a 3 month out break of staghorn algae in the gravel bed. ]:|]:|

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Back in the saddle!

the rotala is coming in greener than I thought,
This is where it's hard to be all things to everything in your tank. From what I understand the rotala will be red if your no3 is lean and of course if you add enough FE, but some plants like the high no3 (like my stargrass) so I have both. You might have to add alot of FE to get it more red. What are you adding now?

My Scapes

Very nice photos, NowherMan6

note the green spot algae on the glass right near the gravel line

I noticed the dried water drops on the outside of the glass

I have no idea what plant this little baby might become one day . It is always fun to watch something grow and slowly close in on its identification. Rather often than not it takes a while though until at least a few leaves and the stem are visible, right now it could be almost any plant .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Clearing continues. I didn't get a full tank shot, but after a waterchange last night i took some shots of the rotala:



the the ludwigia from overhead:



As you can see the water is still cloudy, but definetely a lot clearer than even two days ago. For the first time I was able to see all the way to the back of the tank. It's amazing, the bacopa has doubled in size since i trimmed it about two weeks ago, as has the rotala and the ludwigia. The right side of my tank is now dense and thick with plants, it's really cool looking, like I imagined it after doing the re-do.

That said, i realize that I have some rearranging to do. Basically, the rotala is coming in greener than I thought, and the ludwigia redder than I thought, so basically there's a this huge green mass on the right side, and a big puff of reddish green on the left, so it looks off balance. I'm going to have to switch some around, but they're all growing very well. It's not quite time for a full tank shot yet, a few more days of clearing and I'll put a few up


And now, a game! It's called, guess what kind of plant this is! A few weeks ago I noticed this little green bit under the gravel, pushed right up against the glass. Eventually I thought it would just go away or die, but I let it go for a little while and sure enough it started to grow. Recently it finally poked a leaf above the gravel and I'm not sure what it is. It may be a hygro leaf, I don't know. What do you all think?
(Also, note the green spot algae on the glass right near the gravel line... bensaf, is not alone )


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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Glad to hear that your plants don't seem to care about the GW at all .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Definitely a good move with the UV. In a few days your tank should be pretty much clear and then it will be clearer than ever even when looking through the side.

I fact that it can kill parasites and other bacteria is an added bonus.

I also notice that the fish and plant colors look a little crisper because of the clear water. When my tank is filled all the way up and there's no surface agitation you really can't tell there is water in the tank.

My Scapes

Actually the plants are growing very well. I haven't stopped dosing any ferts during the GW because that would do no good. My rotala has fully come back, and the ludwigia has grown nicely. The tenellus is putting out tons of runners (but needs some pruning) and the hygro is reaching the surface. I cant see the bacopa but I'm sure that's doing well too

Seriously, this has been a nitemare but I'm happy I didn't kill the plants to spite the algae like last time ::roll eyes::

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

What a nightmare, I should stop complaining about the few Thread algae strings that I have in the tank. At least I can see something.

I really hope that your plants get enough light in there. It would be a bummer if you have to regrow them once again.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Filter floss, the kind made for aquatic use, add a handful to the filter and keep changing it. Then the biological filter won't be disturbed. Changing the sponge too often may cause a mini-cycle. I wouldn't chance it. Once I siphoned water through a filter bag filled with the floss then just put the water back in the tank(2G). It cleared out quite a bit of the stuff. Took a bit of time but the end result was less gw.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Yes, nowhere it's working. Mine did the same thing. How fast do you think the flow rate is. Anyway I didn't do anything but change my filter pad a few times just keep rinsing it. You could use a clumping agent like Hagen's P-Clear to help clump it so the filter could get it. The Hagen product was very effective. Within a few hours the water was really clear and with your UV it should stay that way.


Last edited by tetratech at 02-Jan-2006 17:58

My Scapes

UV update:

Been away for a few days, family, new years eve party, hangover etc. Here's a shot from Thursday compared to what I came home to today:




There's clearly a difference, and the tank is less green and more see through - however, it has definetely taken on a whiteish cloudy appearance. Im guessing this is just dead algae still in the water, but can anyone recommend a good bit of mechanical filtration to get it out of there?

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Back in the saddle!

Ha, I didn't even notice

And no Tetratech, you are not a nerd ]

It's just the rest of us that are a little, how shall I say, off

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Don't look now, but there's another guru in the house:%)

BTW - I'm no nerd, I bowl in a mens league (tough group), coach soccer and play softball. I just happen to be a fish guru as well.





Last edited by tetratech at 30-Dec-2005 12:21

My Scapes

My thoughts were more geared towards the Sterilization than the cancer though.



Who is a nerd ?

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 30-Dec-2005 11:36

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, we planted tank owners like to live on the edge: we keep large tanks full of highly pressurized CO2, ready to explode; we keep devices that emit harmful cancer causing UV rays in plain view... nope, we're definetly not nerds...

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Back in the saddle!

Welcome to the wonderful world of UV Sterlization

Just make sure that you don't stand too close to the light

]]]

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,

Welcome to the wonderful world of UV Sterlization.

After the water clears don't forget to clean the filter pad. If your concerned that it might unchelate FE you could run it at nite only after the tank clears. That's what I'm doing now.



My Scapes

I will keep my fingers crossed that it will work quickly

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just like the glass diffuser craze that happened just recently

True enough, but that was a matter of aesthetics, this is actually practical.

I went ahead and bought and set-up a UV sterilizer. It's 9 watts and my tank is smallish, so hopefully it'll do the job fairly quickly. I found one originally (the same as tetras) at a local chain store that I went ahead and bought, but luckily I checked the thing in the car before leaving, because not only was it missing the UV bulb, the electronics looked all rusted and gross... it was obviously used and returned, then resold as new. Rubbish. Needless to say I returned it and found a good one elsewhere. The moral of the story is, always check the box before buying.

Aaaaanyway, the way I set it up isnt ideal, but it'll do for now, at least until the water clears and I can set it up mroe permanantly. Right now I have a powerhead pumping water into the unit, then the return hose goes right back to the aquarium. Everything is connected with short lengths of hose (I didnt get enough tubing ]:|) Later I'll reconnect it and mount the unit on the inside of my stand/ cabinet, but for now it's just sitting on my desk. Simple and ugly I would post pics but there really is nothing to see, the water is so green there's nothing to look at.

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Back in the saddle!

I bet you that very soon a lot of people here will run a UV Sterilizer.

Just like the glass diffuser craze that happened just recently .

Glad you made it through the Holidays anyway

Ingo



Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 27-Dec-2005 13:07

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey everyone

Brief update: I've started a thread here

If anyone has any opinions please let me know. Wargh. Hope your holidays were less green than mine ]:|

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Back in the saddle!

*thread Hijack*

Sorry can't help but further Ingo's driftwood envy. Here is a a composition I have had set aside for my 75G.

It is composed of three pieces and is around 3ft in length and about 12" tall. Just haven't found rock which will work for a nice foundation.






alright we can get back on topic now

^_^
Megil
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Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 23-Dec-2005 19:41

Wow,

Now, I have driftwod envy ]:|]:|

And I am with you guys, these stores sometimes have good stuff. I got my 2 Gold Twin Bar Platies there, and no Ich.

NowherMan6, merry Xmas to you too . I will be online until tomorrow and then the kids present madness will start .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's a true Christmas miracle
Don't you mean Festivas (If your a seinfeld fan)

By the color, probably for reptiles. Do you know if it sinks? You might have to weigh that down somehow.

You never know, I got my ram at Petco. I don't know which is lower.

Last edited by tetratech at 23-Dec-2005 14:23

My Scapes

Purchased it... in a Petland discounts, no less! It's a true Christmas miracle!

I was shocked they had anything worth while. It's probably meant for reptiles, but it's definetely not soft wood, not pine. Proper treatment is in order, of course, but hey, I can't complain.

Sto lat!

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 23-Dec-2005 13:40

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blackberry brandy, watching football and other Christmas whatnot
Sounds like Heaven [img src='/images/forums/halo.gif' border=0]
Happy Holidays to you and your family!

That's a nice piece, did you find that or purchase it?



My Scapes

Well, I'm busy at work trying to finish a bunch of stuff up before vacation so i don't have too much time, but I just wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas (if that's your thing), and Happy Holidays otherwise. I'll be out of touch for the next two or three days, shopping, cooking, wrapping presents, cleaning, drinking miller lite and blackberry brandy, watching football and other Christmas whatnot so I won't be on here for a while. All the best to you and your families!


p.s. One final planty thing: attached below is a pic of a piece of driftwood I picked up to add to the left side of the tank. The tall branchy part will face towards the middle, and I'm imagining java moss creeping along certain parts, with ludwigia repens coming up to the center part of the branch, covering the bottom part. In total it's about 18 inches high, so perfect for my tank, will add some nice height. Will hopefully get to it next week.

- Rich



NowherMan6 attached this image:


Last edited by NowherMan6 at 23-Dec-2005 13:19[/font]

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 23-Dec-2005 13:19

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Back in the saddle!

Yo could also buy the 5g aga bowfront. Take all the trim off and throw everything in the garbage except for the filter. The 5 gallon is $35 at bigals and 2.5g is $20.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=27139&category_id=3217&pcid1=2253

My Scapes

I have been around, reading the forums, bit quiet. Also it is the holidays so I have been spending much time with family and friends.

Those second boraras do indeed look like endlers. only much, much better.

Also have you considered Aquavases if you want that nano tank look? http://www.petmeister.com/item2688.htm
Capacity is small though Maybe it is time for DIY lol

You can also consider ordering a cube from Glasscages

Here

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 22-Dec-2005 12:45

Yep, I missed that the first time.



My Scapes

Yeah tetratech,

I refer to the last one you mentioned and a few other in my [link=Nano Tank Thread]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/66877.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link].

It is pretty far down on the page.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This look's like a knock off.

http://www.taiwantrade.com.tw/cgi-bin/bv60/TWTRADE/CATALOG/catalog_eng_product_detail_win.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0635085583.1135274974@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccgaddgifgkkgdcgehcekkdhgfdfnm.0&prod_id=63882%3a3297480240&CataOid=404850

This is the one advertised in TFH.

Last edited by tetratech at 22-Dec-2005 12:22

Second thought - This is a good DIY project. Make the ]:|]:| tank yourself

Last edited by tetratech at 22-Dec-2005 12:24

My Scapes

hey Megil, haven't seen you around in a while, where you been?

I know where to find the boraras maculatas, the other may take some work. The kind of look a little like endlers, eh? And the reason i want something bigger than a peanut butter jar for my nano, LF, is to be able to keep some sort of pretty little rasbora with the plants.


Ah, maybe you guys are right about the light. Back to the drawing board...::roll eyes:: On second though,maybe I'll stick it near a window (indirect sun, no place in my apartment gets direct sunlight) and see what happens. Hopefully THAT'LL be enough light. ]:|

and according to that website, "TROPICA PLANTS
ARE NOT AWAILABLE IN UNITED STATES BECAUSE OF AGRICULTURAL REGULATIONS" What about Tropica glass jars???

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Back in the saddle!

I bet you could walk around some nonfish-related stores and find something nice for a nano. It's open-top and there are alot of lights etc (clip-on's, desklaps that migh work well (and it will cost you very little)




My Scapes

Yeah tetratech,

That doesn’t look good

[link=Two Little Fishies]http://www.twolittlefishies.com/tlf_home.html?lang_id=1" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] doesn’t sell any tanks at all.

Dave Gomberg - JCF Systems has the remark “Tropica Book Only”

Doesn’t look good to me.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have only ever seen Troica ferts/books in the U.S. I do not belive they ship anything else to us.

also Nowhereman those fish you picked are gorgeous best of luck finding them ^_^

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 22-Dec-2005 11:53

NowherMan6,

If we could get it then:

- Buy the tank
- Throw out all the silly stuff
- Plant as desired



But, to my knowledge, Tropica does not sell to the US. That’s why I said we can’t get our hands on it .

And too small, hey it is a Nano, not some pseudo Nano

Ingo

EDIT: didn't see your entry tetratech. They have dealers for tanks in the US? LINK please

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 22-Dec-2005 11:44

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

http://www.tropica.com/dealers_list.asp?countrycode=US&continentname=America

Not sure if this is a retail/wholesale

Last edited by tetratech at 22-Dec-2005 11:51

Edit: You might be right, they are a tropica dealer, but probably not for the nanos

Last edited by tetratech at 22-Dec-2005 11:55

My Scapes

I may be one more step closer to a UV sterilizer, as I noticed another brownish/ green tint to my tank again today
If you want my opinion I would take that step. I hate buying more devices for my tank that aren't necessary, but I think for some it is. Plant mass has alot to do with and I really don't have it. I have 3 main stem groupings and the rest groundcover. Although If I stood, my tank up I'd have 4 foot wisteria, which is suppose to be a great fert sucker, but overall my tank isn't heavily planted. That's the idea behind the willow branches great fert sucker. Besides the UV depending on flow rate, also kills and free floating viruses, bacteria, fungi and Protozoa so maybe I'll save some money on fish and medications.




My Scapes

I hear ya, tetra. I'm going to give it a few more weeks and see what happens. Actually, i ran the diatom again last night and cleared things up, I'll see if it comes back again. if it becomes a perpetual problem, even when the plants are growing well I may have to bite the bullet and get one. Then the big project starts - how to run a UV sterilizer while using only a HOB filter


Anyway, here's an updated pic:



A couple things - first, comparing it to the pic from last week there has been growth, but not great growth, not as much as i thought I'd see in a week. The bacopa right now is the tallest grouping, but they need a trim and replant, I still haven't removed the original emersed bottoms, they're starting to get ugly looking - plus they're a totally different leaf shape. It's kinda funny looking when you really look at it. I also trimmed away a lot more of the old tenellus leaves, it looks a lot better to me now.

I'm not sold on the left side of the tank just yet. I think I'm going to add a complementary piece of driftwood to that side, something reaching towards the top of the tank, branchier. I have to be careful to leave enough room to plant around it, but the rock/ low DW split isn't working for me right now - I think it needs something higher. That'll also mean removing the vals, i think, becuase they're barely seen at all as it is. I just don't think I'm utilizing them correctly, or as well as I can. Maybe I'll move them to my shellie tank.

Besides that, I've been doing the regular dosing of KNO3 and Kent "Grow" and ::knock on wood:: no other algae problems besides the GW.

One more question: How often do you all replace your light bulbs? Mine are over a year old and I just ordered replacement bulbs. Does intensity die off significantly as the lights get older?


and P.S. Man, I can't wait to get rid of that big reactor... come on USPS, bring me my diffuser! [/font]

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

I think your tank looks nice. For sure there is much more work to be done, but give your plants a chance to grow first. Right now I would consider your plant load medium at the best.

Adding driftwood to utilize the tank height is a good idea, but be careful that you don’t generate a major focal point at one side only. Nobody would look at the rest of the tank anymore .

Yeah, you go ahead and add that diffuser as I would like to know how it works out.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

One more question: How often do you all replace your light bulbs? Mine are over a year old and I just ordered replacement bulbs. Does intensity die off significantly as the lights get older?
I think a year is fine. You could probably keep them alot longer, but I did change mine after a year. I don't think CF bulbs decline in intensity. I wouldn't look to your bulbs as the problem if that's what you thinking.

I echo LF's commments tank looks good need more growth, even if you had more dw to the left you could eventually decide how strong of an impact it will make with plant coverage anyway.

My Scapes

I wouldn't look to your bulbs as the problem if that's what you thinking

well not THE problem but maybe A problem. I just want to be sure I'm getting the actual intensity i think I'm getting and not overestimating my amount of light.

As for growth, i know, I need to get them going a bit more. After the orignal replant I had slow growth for about a week ro so, then they took off - and so did the GW. It's a shame, because I know the ludwigia for example was beautiful behind the greenness of the water. It was pretty full looking, and almost reached the top of the tank. Then after the blackout most leaves came off and, well, the rest is history.. asll that remains is that semi-pathetic looking little bit there. Hopefully it'll bounce back soon enough.

In terms of dosing I think I may be missing something, because I've never dosed any P before. Never measured it either, but that may be what's causing some of my inconsistant growth. I mean, I've given them light, C, N, K (plus traces etc.)... P is the macro I've never dosed (which is why i asked that question in your thread tetra). I'm not looking for a magic bullet here, just making sure I've given them everything they need and i feel like this may be something I'm missing.

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Back in the saddle!

For me, P is a questionable entity at the moment. I know Bensaf and Tom Barr both say that values even above the mark of 2ppm are nothing to worry about, but how about 5ppm?

I cannot tell you to add or not to add P, but I would say it would not be a bad idea to at least measure it, in the tank and in the tab water. I have 2ppm from the tab.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,
If you don't have one get a po4 test kit use the pps system (really simple) to really get a benchmark of where you are (you too LF) and then take action.

LF if you truly have 2ppm in your tap whats the point of dosing if you want 10 to 1 with no3?



Last edited by tetratech at 13-Dec-2005 12:24

My Scapes

I think I'm going to go for it with PO4. I've been reading over Tom barr's stuff again. My mantra right now is, "There is no amount of [XX] you can add that will only be used by plants and not algae..."

he wrote in the EI article, "[Using EI] will not cause algae unless you over look something, namely CO2 or under dosing KNO3 which both of these account for about 95% of all algae issues."

I'd like to play with this idea a little bit. If he's right then you need to worry about cranking CO2 the most, and keeping KNO3 relatively high and steady. I'm going to trust my mantra and see where this goes, and if I get an algae outbreak then, well, at least I'll learn something
It can't be any worse than not being able to see your plants though the green soupy water...

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Back in the saddle!

Yup,

Last time I checked (a while ago) that is what I got - 2ppm

And Matty has high phosphates in his tab as well, he was a little upset the other day that his overall P got so high in his tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

BTW - This was a poll conducted on APC about what a good level of po4 is for mid to high light aquariums:

View Poll Results: What PO4 levels do you find the best for mid to high light aquarium?
0 ppm 0 0%
0.1 ppm 0 0%
0.25 ppm 0 0%
0.5 ppm 11.86%
1 ppm 32.20%
2 ppm 35.59%
3 ppm 6.78%
4 ppm 3.39%
5 ppm 6.78%
other 3.39%
Voters: 59.

As you could see about 80% keep it at 2ppm or under.

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NoWherMan,

I was a bit like you when I first set up my planted 23g in that I was very reluctant to dose any PO4 (even though I didn't know how much PO4 I got) since a lot of things I read say to limit PO4 level to suppress algae. At the same time my plants (especially the stem plants) grew very slowly. Finally one day (after reading EI) I decided to try dosing Flourish Phosphorus (recommended amount in the bottle, which amounts to only 0.15ppm PO4) in conjuction with increased amount of Flourish Nitrogen. Well within just a few days the stem plant growth just exploded - at least by my standards (I don't add CO2 & have relatively low lighting). I believe that was the limiting factor in my case (found out later that I have 0ppm PO4 out of the tap).

Anyways, the moral of the story is give PO4 a try. A little amount definitely wouldn't hurt. I read it helps the plants utilize the N more effectively too.

-P

hi upikabu and thanks,

A little amount definitely wouldn't hurt.

If anything I'm actually probably a little too overzealous in my desire to dose it. It's trying something new, and that's fun for me.

I read it helps the plants utilize the N more effectively too.

I'm sure it does... and all that together creates a balance, which makes the plants thrive. And that's all we're really after, isn't it? A balance... the right amounts of essential nutrients within a certain range that allow our plants to grow well... and the sideffect of this being limited algae growth.

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Back in the saddle!

Add the PO4. You're not getting the full benefit of the other nutrients you are adding, particularly No3, without it.

PO4 is like a turbo charger. It can really get things going. It speeds up No3 uptake, watch for faster increased pearling.

Doesn't matter what's in your tap add it anyway.

The PO4 in tap may fluctuate, test kit could be dodgy. The only way to be sure it's there is to add it yourself, cross it off the list of things to worry about.

Whether it's 2ppm or 3ppm won't make any differnce to the plants and more importantly algae. Hell they'd be happy as pigs in the proverbial muck with 0.00005 ppm of PO4, or anything else. Why would 2 or 3 ppm make a difference ?
Remember they are single cell presbyterians or was it episcopalians, anyway they're small

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

C'mon Bensaf, they are single cell Protists dammit!!!! ]:|


But seriously, that's what I was thinking anyway. There's no amount that plants can use that algae can't, so add it anyway.

I would still like to test though, just to see what my current levels are, what the tap is etc. Now if only I can find a store that sells Phosphate test kits. The island of Manhatten, home to thousands of businesses and a million people, and the only fish stores open past 7:30 is Petland Discounts ]:|]:|

"Do you have a phosphate test kit?"

"Nitrate? We have nitrate..."

"No no, phosphate..."

" :ilence::.... we have nitrate, ammonia, pH..."

Wargh. ]:|

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Back in the saddle!

Uh, Hm,

I dare to slightly disagree with Bensaf.

Yeah, I buy the 2 to 3ppm theory and that this might not make much of a difference, but how about 5 or 10ppm? I don’t know.

For example, I think none of us so far has questions that too much Iron is bad (thread algae ]:|), but if algae only need tiny amounts why would additional Iron be bad?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I dare to slightly disagree with Bensaf.
Oh my G**



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I dare to slightly disagree with Bensaf.
Oh my G**

A guy gets a couple more gold stars and look what happens


Hey, I never ever claimed to be right about anything. Anyone can disagree.......just don't make a habit out of it

Ingo has a point but c'mon who's talking about 5-10ppm ? We certainly aren't going to add that much and not many taps, if any, will have that kind of level. We add about 0.5ppm a time. No big deal even with tap that has 2-3ppm.

Iron levels getting too high can cause problems , not as far as algae that I know of, but in terms of blocking the plants uptake of other nutrients.Iron doesn't hang around long, oxidises quickly unless using a good chelating agaent.

High levels of a lot of nutrients will cause problems with plant health. But the levels are relatively high and a good bit beyond anything we are adding. Iron is probably the dodgiest, above 2ppm may cause problems.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

just don't make a habit out of it

Ok boss, will try

who's talking about 5-10ppm

Well, I am. Within only a few weeks after I set up the 125G and having dosed Phosphates, I had phosphates of 10ppm and more, but that was where my scale ended. Only not fertilizing Phosphates for almost 2 weeks made the level fall down to 1 to 2ppm again. Then I stopped measuring but started Phosphates again, in lesser amounts. And, what can I say - last weekend’s measure was 5ppm.

I know my test kit is not calibrated, but having seen all colors of the measuring spectrum I know that the kit itself basically works.

There you go .

Ingo

EDIT: initially said Plantex, but meant the corrected Phosphates

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 14-Dec-2005 07:25

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, while I'm waiting for my plants to grow in (again) my mind has been wandering off into thinking about my fish stock. Right now I have a few ideas in mind. The one main thing right now is I think I'm going to trade in my BN. The other options are:

- add 8-10 of these http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/lemon.xml

-or, add 2-3 of these http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/bolivian.xml

-or, add a few more harlies and 1-2 rams

-or, any combination of the above

I really would like to add a new smaller schools and I really like the lemons, I'm just afraid of overstocking. Sometimes I look at my tank and I think, holy cow, there's a not of fish in there... but most times i look at I think, holy cow, that tank is empty. Plus with the density of plants I plan on maintaining i think i have a little bit of wiggle room. Out of the options above, what I would like most of all I think is:

14 harlies (already there)
4 yo-yos (already there)
8-10 lemons
1-2(?) bolivian rams

That's all to go along with healthy rotala and ludwigia of course

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Back in the saddle!

Well, sounds good to me

14 harlies - stay rather small
4 yo-yos - fine
8 lemons - stay rather small
2 bolivian rams - male and female please

But wait a while though until all is settled.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Fish stock break is over, back to the plants

New diffuser update!

Got the new glass diffuser today, put it in and i like it already. I have it set under the outflow of my HOB filter, so the bubbles get pushed around the tank pretty well. Here are some pics:


Propped up against my wallet, recently thinned from buying Christmas presents and... well... glass diffusers and the like:



A close-up of the diffuser:



And here's a shot of the whole tank (with a before pic after for comparison). Note the giant empty space on the right side where the reactor used to be... which will soon be filled in by plants:




I think it looks better...

Also started dosing phosphate this evening. I didn't test yet but to hell with it, I feel like adding it. The tank water is already starting to turn green again, I figure this can't make it any worse, and if anything po4 could be my limiting factor. [/font][/font][/font][/font]

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Yup, I agree, it looks a lot better .

Where do all the bubbles in the tank come from? Did you just do a water change is that all from the diffuser?

Also, I noticed this already on the last picture, you always have quite a bit of debris sticking to your filter intake. Do you loose plant mass that quickly? What is the reason behind having the filter intake only half way down the tank? Wouldn’t that increase the chance of stale areas close to the bottom?

I wonder how quickly the diffuser gets “dirty” now and what has to be done to clean it. If this is all not a problem then I might just give it a try (I would need 2 and would have to split the CO2 line).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I wonder how quickly the diffuser gets “dirty” now and what has to be done to clean it.

No seriously why do I bother ?

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/66955.html?200512100533


Clean them every 2 weeks.Even if you think they don't need it. Just drop in a 50% bleach solution for 10 minutes. Rinse. Soak in tap water with some anti chlorine conditioner for another 10 mins and it's good as new. Actually mine worked even better when i first did this. Couldn't be easier.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks LF,

Where do all the bubbles in the tank come from? Did you just do a water change is that all from the diffuser?

It's all from the diffuser. However, i have to add that this pic was taken right after start-up of the diffuser. The bubbles flying around the tank eventually cleared and now the tank looks like normal. I'm not sure why it happened that way, but after a few minutes of running things didnt look so bubbly anymore. Plus, when plants grow in mroe I plan on having them semi- cover the diffuser, as Bensaf suggested. Hopefully that'll keep the bubbles down and allow them mor etime to absorb into the water.

Also, I noticed this already on the last picture, you always have quite a bit of debris sticking to your filter intake. Do you loose plant mass that quickly

I'm not sure if I lose it that quickly. I'm sure a lot of that was excess leaves floating around from when i did the blackout that I hadn't pciked off yet (the first pic I mean). In the most recent one, I'm not sure why. The plants look healthy enough, they're not shedding leaves. it may just be leaf litter that i missed after pruning etc.

What is the reason behind having the filter intake only half way down the tank? Wouldn’t that increase the chance of stale areas close to the bottom?

Errr, because I never thought to put it any lower Actually, the filter didn't come with an extender to get it down lower, I suppose i should look for one. I haven't noticed any dead areas on that side of the tank. If anything that side gets more movement than anywhere else because of the outflow.

As i said earlier, I dosed po4 yesterday and thios morning I swear my hygro looks bigger. Wishful thinking? Maybe...

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Back in the saddle!

Nowher, I might have missed this. I know Bensaf said one of the suppliers is aquaticeco I believe. Is that where you purchased the diffusor?

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I know Bensaf said one of the suppliers is aquaticeco I believe. Is that where you purchased the diffusor?

That was Tom. Aquaticeco has the Sweetwater airstones, I don't think they have diffusers.

Drs.Fosters and Smith have them, Aquabotanic is having a sale on them but I don't think they have the stock yet.

Nowhere what brand of diffuser is that? Don't recognise it.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Actually just checked the site aquaticeco has this:



tetratech attached this image:


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and the Drs has this:



tetratech attached this image:


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