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Ive have just added some val and a crypt to my 20g tank and they both seem to be dying.. the roots are going black and the leaves are brown and shredding.

what could be causing this?

im adding a capful of flourish excel daily and am running a 20w light.

thanks!

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

To start of with who told you to use that much Flourish Ecxcel.

In my Betta tank I am only adding 1ml every day.
Plants can and will die from several causes but are usually water related, polution, too much fert. no fert at all, also lighting problems too much or too little.

To fix this do several water changes also add some carbon if possible. Take all the plants out and just let them float for at least two weeks. Also do a very deep gravel cleaning just in case there is a problem with the substrate but I dought it.

Here is a tip do a full water test and contact Seachem give them all your tank details and ask them what and how much of the Fert you should be using.

After several E/ms and a few testings all my problems were solved.

I am also using Flourish nitrogen 1ml twice a weel and pottassium 2ml twice a week. It will al depend on your local water supply and what is in the tank.

Please let me know how you get on with them as I found them extremly help full Also I can give you an Aust online aquarium site that sells Seachem products at a very good price and excellent service.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Hey Carpe,

Did you add these plants to your shellie tank, the one in your avatar?

If so, it may just be the plants adjusting to the new conditions. They were likely grown in softer water than they're in now, and would shed their current leaves and grow new ones.

You mention the roots - are you looking at the roots sticking out from the substrate, or those below? Sometimes crypts get these little black roots that stick up out of the surface, while the main roots are below and white. Before discarding them, pull the plant up a little and check for any healthy white roots.

Crypts and vals are hardy and I doubt the plant is dead. As Keith has said, a change in conditions can make them drop their leaves, but I seriously doubt the plant itself is dead. Cut back on the excel, that's a lot of excel and plants don't do well on an overdose of that stuff.

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks for your replies!

the plants are in my 20g freshwater not my cichlid tank.

sounds like i might be overdosing my poor plants! will hold back on the flourish for the moment and do a few water changes so try and flush the chems out. the guy at the LFS told me to add a capful daily so that is what i have been doing as im not overly experienced in plants. i am using carbon in my filter at the moment so hopefully this will help! i have taken the majority of plants out already and am floating them in a bucket. i left a few in there for my ottos as they like to hang out of the leaves.

the roots under the gravel are black not above. i have 1.5 to 2 inches of gravel. could this be too deep for these plants?

i wil contact seachem as you suggested keith and see what they say. that link would be great also.

thanks and ill let you know how this all goes!

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

carpe_diem,

Sorry I got so late into this thread, but I thought that the gang had it covered. Well, now I would like to add my 2 cents anyway, if you don't mind:

Your excel dosing was a little off, I agree. HERE is the dosing chart for Excel from Seachem. If you feed one cap per day on a 20 then you were to low on the first day and too high on the following days. Overall, not a disaster though, but in the long run, with not too many plants in a tank, it can start to wear on them.

About your idea of doing a water change to get rid of the chemicals: A water change is always a good idea, I do a 50% change every week (or two, in case of my low tech tanks). But you don't have to do it to get rid of the excel as it does not stay active for more than a day or two.

In case you need it HERE is the link to Seachem's main Excel page.

Have fun,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have actualy melted off both crypts and vals with Excel. They did however come back after a while.

In my low tech tanks I am dosing excel, reg. flourish with flourish root tabs every couple of months.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks for your replies!

i did a 30% water change last night and when i checked the water
ph was a little low so added some ph-up and now its at 7.5 which is good..
nitrate was at 20ppm
ammoinia was high at 3mp/l so im getting some chlormon today to help fix that . i guess its a result of the rotting plants.

i did notice when i gravel vacd that some of the gravel had turned black. any opinions on this??

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

carpe_diem,

I have to say that I am a little confused. You say this is for your planted freshwater and not your cichlid tank. So, what is all that stuff (chemicals) that you add to your tank for then?

Like the ph-up. What exactly does it mean when you say "ph was a little low?" What kind of fish are in there?

And what about the chlormon?
Not my style to fix issues in a tank. If you have ammonia in your tank then there are a few options where this could come from, and here they are plus possible solutions without adding stuff to the tank:

- Too much food - cut back on feeding
- Too many fish - reduce load or enhance filtration and increase frequencey or percentage of water changes
- Dead plants - remove all dead leaves etc.
- A combination of the above - do all things mentioned, add more plants (if the tank is ready for plants, meaning lights, ferts, etc)

Things like ph-up invalidate all your readings that you would need to gage your CO2 in the tank (once the DYI is ready).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF by chemicals i meant the excel. i dont add any other chems to this tank.

in this tank i have 2 bolivian rams, 4 danios, 4 ottos and 6 corys.

the rise in ammonia would have been from the plants before i removed the majority of them. there are only a couple of little bunches left in there for the moment, however rapidly declining these are.

i added a tiny dose of prime last nite which is suppose to help reduce the ammonia but i will also do another gravel vac tonite.

Does anyone know why some of the gravel has turned black?

Will look at the CO2 this weekend...

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

carpe_diem,

Ah, I am getting closer to understand

So what you called initially chlormon is actually Prime, and that is ok, of couse.

But what about the ph-up?

About the gravel:
If you don't have some weird substrate that is not meant for tanks (and as such dissolved its outer layer to show now what is inside) I would assume it is algae or rotting food particles.

If you have a tendency to overfeed then the latter could be the case, but you should be able to easily vacuum it off.

Otherwise (actually also a possible result of overfeeding), it is most likely algae. Algae comes in various forms, and one of them is almost like a crust on the individual grains of gravel. If you take one grain out, does it come off easily, almost like a layer? Then I would assume it is BGA. Otherwise it is some form of spot algae.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

im not sure what ingredients are in ph up.. but i will check tonite.

i will grab a piece of gravel out tonite and see if the black comes off.. the gravel that is black came out from underneath when i did a gravel vac ..

i dont think i overfeed.. i only had around a pinch at a time till the food has been eaten..
though would love some algae at the moment with 4 otos to feed

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi,
I suspect the active ingredient is Sodium Carbonate. This
is used in swimming pools to raise the pH to 7.0 to 7.6 and
is sold under the name pH UP.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Sounds to me like anaerobic spots under the gravel. That will also turn the roots black and effect plant growth. Do you stir your gravel and do you shove the gravel vac all the way down to the glass when cleaning? Do any bubbles come out if you stir the gravel especially with the black patches?

I killed a bunch of jungle vals using excel. There are several plants that are sensitive to it and I believe vals are an often mentioned one. I suggest skipping a day or 2 and then if you start using it again adding a much lower dose. Around 1/4-1/2 the recommended dose. At least until you can determine what the exact problem is and rule out the excel.

when i gravel vac i place in over the gravel and it does its thing. i have seen bubbles pop up.. could anaerobic bacteria be the problem? if so what do i do?

ive stopped the excel for the moment.. just adding 1 ml every few days...

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

When you gravel vac you need to shove and wiggle it all the way to the bottom of the tank. Avoiding plant roots as much as possible of course. Otherwise waste and leftover food will settle down deep in the gravel and rot creating the black spots. The bubbles that come out are given off by the anaerobic bacteria and can be toxic. Any areas you can't gravel vac well due to plant roots should be stirred lightly to allow fresh water and oxygen down into the gravel. Or if your lazy like me toss in a bunch of trumpets and let them stir the gravel for you.

ok will do a massive gravel vac tonite.

should i change the gravel ?
at the moment i have about 2.5 inches of gravel. is this too much gravel and could be causing the problem?

edit: just goggled anaerobic bacteria and it sounds like the exact thing i have.. black gravel black roots and a realllly bad smell coming from the water.. much like rotten egg smell..

what do i do?

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Hi,
Actually, if you do a massive gravel vacuum of the entire
tank, your tank will probably begin to cycle anew.
The bulk of the bacteria that run the Nitrogen Cycle are
located in the gravel on the surfaces of each grain.
It would be better if you were to divide the non-planted
portion(s) of the tank into four sections and when you
change out 10-20% of the tank water, once a week, also
vacuum the gravel in "A" section. Then next week do another
section, and so on. That way, in a month, you have cleaned
all the non-planted sections, and have also given each
individual section three weeks to recover before being
cleaned again. That will prevent the "mini-cycle" from
occurring.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks.. ill give that sectioning style gravel vac'ing a go!

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them