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OK Gang - here is the deal:

I am being banned from my office in our house as my wife thinks that a room just to store stuff (and that is pretty much what I use my office for) is a waste of space. Instead, she offered me that I take over the basement, that is where I already have 2 of my 3 tanks (20 and 125).

Now, in my office is my 29G and this one would have to move into the basement as well. So I was thinking (I know - always a dangerous thing to do) "why not use that chance and upgrade to a slightly larger tank and have the 29G just in case I find another spot for it some day.

based on my limited experience with planted tanks, I seem to have identified that a proportionally wider tank (relative to the lenght), with a width that is pretty equal to its height, would serve as the better option when creating the impression of depth.

The spot I found for this new tank seems to be able to fit a 36" long tank in it, the tank would be viewable from pretty much all sides. Given that I would not be willing to pay a fortune for a custom tank, I came up with 2 candidates from All-Glass:

- There is the 40G Breeder with 36 x 18 x 16 (LxWxH)
- And the 50 Gallon with 36 x 18 x 19 (LxWxH)

So, what do you folks think of these sizes? Do you have another tank that you would recommend? Anything else to say?

Thanks in advance,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'd go with the 40 breeder. I personally think it's one of the most versatile "standard" tank sizes. The surface area is wonderful for keeping the large schools of small fish you seem to like. If you plan to go heavily planted, though, the extra height may be necessary to prevent tall grassy plants from spreading out over the surface as much once they get too tall. However, if you wanted to try something new, using the 40 breeder as an open top tank and having plants and wood sticking out of the top could be appealing as well, but then you certainly run into the problem of jumping fish.

If the tank is viewable from all sides, a mound planting scheme might be nice, with tall plants and hardscape in the middle, and short plants all around on all sides.

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

LF,

I'm already drooling over that 40 breeder. The dimensions give you the opportunity to do something unusual with it, like make it a gourami breeding tank, or build up an apisto harem, or do a biotope of some sort.

It need not be heavily planted, you can focus mainly on hardscape items, like big pieces of DW, with plants as the filler. Love the open top idea, but that's not possible with your cat, right?

The 50 gallon has the same footprint though, so there's not much difference if the space can handle the extra 100 pounds.

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Back in the saddle!

Thank illustrae and NowherMan6

What NowherMan6 says is true, I cannot have an open top because of the cat and because of the kids . The one side of the stand would be against a couch and both short sides would be close to some funky table thingies around poles (don't ask, we bought the house that way) where it would be easy to climb up. No doubt the little ones would use that chance to have a little splash party.

I also was mostly keen on the 40 Breeder, but then I wondered if a net height of 13" (deduct 3" for substrate) would be too low. It makes it barely any taller than my 20G Long and that one cannot hold plants of medium height without constant trimming. The weight of the 50G would not be a problem, there is a concrete floor in the basement (it holds the 125G just fine ).

I guess other things will also play a role in what size to get, like light options. take a single 96W strip, which gives me more over 40 than 50, or a double strip which may be even too much for the 40.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I absolutely LOVE both of those tank sizes. They are perfect for aquascaping. My 30 is just too skinny. I'm thinking about upgrading my salt tank to a 40br or 50G tank. The 50 is just a slight bit taller than the 40(means I need more light compared to the 40), but provides some extra gallonage(more fish and corals), so I've been considering that too. Either way I could just tack on an extra 6 inches on my stand to fit it(sorry this probably wasn't useful to you ). If I do either I'll probably have to upgrade my lights *grumbles*.

Hmm...I'm in the same boat. I can't decide. I'll just keep watch for what everyone else says along with you LF.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Oh LF didn't see you post.

Be careful if you get just one 96W bulb. There will likely be some shaded areas either in the front or back, due to the slim light source and wide tank. It would be easy just to raise the light off the tank I guess so the light will spread more.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Truth be told I'm also looking at that 50G tank, it's a great size.

Like I said, the 40 breeder would allow you to do some unusual things with it, to play around with different aquascapes without having to worry about filling in the top layer of the tank with stem plants.

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Back in the saddle!

Heh, I've seen home videos of disasters with cats and fishtanks, even fishtanks with canopies.
In fact, I've nearly had a few close calls of my own:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~illustrae/Aquaria/pictures/pict0001_3.jpg

That's about 20 lbs. of fat, spoiled, pampered housecat on my 10 gal. quarrantine tank with only a flimsy glass lid between her an all that water... I had a little freakout that morning, but had the frame of mind to snap a quick pic, then promptly found a better place to keep the quarrantine tank.


But back to your issue...
Do you think you're going to want to go all out and do a high-light with CO2 planted setup again? I have a 65 gallon tank (36x18x24) with a 36" compact fluorescent fixture putting out about 90 watts, and it's perfect for anubias, and not much else (which is what I wanted, so no biggie). On a shorter tank, that might put out enough light for a wider variety of low-light plants, however, a double-bulb fixture would put out twice that, which would be enough for a low-medium light planted tank, which would be great for many aquascapes and wouldn't be so high light as to need CO2. Naturally, the less height of the tank, the more intense the light, but I think all that will result in is plants that look slightly stunted, and like you mentioned, lots of frequent trimming.

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

Thanks to the 3 of you for the recent input.

It would be easy just to raise the light off the tank I guess so the light will spread more

I have all my PC lights raised on legs, I think that would do the trick if I should decide on one light only (which I most likely will not ).

Truth be told I'm also looking at that 50G tank

You will have to act fast as you know that once I make my mind up it usually happens fast

... without having to worry about filling in the top layer of the tank with stem plants

Now that one you will have to explain NowherMan6.

Do you think you're going to want to go all out and do a high-light with CO2 planted setup again?

That is the tipping point of going to the double fixture. 2x96W will get me almost 4 wpg (at the 50G, and almost 5wpg on the 40G), quite a bit of light for this rather shallow tank. I could initially decide to turn the second light on only for an hour or so, or maybe not at all. If I get the urge to go all out with CO2 and stuff then I have it available already.

illustrae - Now that is a funny picture. Believe it or not, our cat is on a diet since at least 10 years and he is about 24 pounds.

So, I guess we agree on the 50 then, right ?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Depends on the type of aquascape you have planned.

The 40gl would be nice for a simple scape with low maintenance, something you'd probably want anyway if it's viewable from all sides.

The 50 would be for a more high tech stem plant "show tank" type set up.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Now that one you will have to explain NowherMan6

The 40gl would be nice for a simple scape with low maintenance, something you'd probably want anyway if it's viewable from all sides

What Bensaf said was basically what I was getting at. In a high tank you need to let some stem groups grow out tall towards the top of the tank. The 40 breeder is lower, so you can get some height with just wood and medium sized plants.

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Back in the saddle!

Hi there,
considering both tanks have the same basic
footprint, I myself would go with the taller.
Not only is a taller tank more aesthetically
pleasing, but it will allow for a nice thing
substrate and some nice tall plants.

Id say the 40, only 16 inches tall, once you
get 3-4 inches of substrate in there, would be
awful short, depending of course on what
kind of fish you plan on doing.

Id stick with the 50 myself.


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Thanks bensaf, NowherMan6, and So_Very_Sneaky

Interesting input and pretty much what I assumed you guys would say.

You are absoultely right, in the 40 I could get away with looking great on a low tech setup, wood - crypts - anubias - fern - and the like could make it very pretty. This is extremely tempting, as we all know my stuggles with a high tech setup.

But then again, in a 50 I could house about 100 additional Espei . And I also believe that 13" of net height are quickly filled up with stem plants of medium height. It is only 3" taller than the 40.

An additional concern is expansion. Meaning - What if the tank does great and I would like to convert it to high tech? No doubt the 50 would be better suited, right?

Does anyone know if either of these tanks has a center brace?

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo,

My 30G AGA had a brace so I would assume that any AGA tank that is 36 inches long or longer will have a center brace.

I vote for the 50G under the assumption that bigger is always better. But hell, you are talking about a 2 inch difference in height!



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Yes, both tanks will have a center brace.
My 65 gal. tank was set up to house a particularly ornery and destructive pleco, so I wanted something VERY low maitenance and went with less than an inch of substrate using large river pebbles, and lots of big branchy pieces of bogwood absolutely covered in anubias. The result is really quite beautiful if I do say so myself. It looks like a twisted mase of branches with a canopy of green on top, and the pleco and other inhabitants (rainbowfish, SAEs and a lone Angel) seem quite content there, and I hardly have to do anything other than bi-weekly water changes. The width of the tank means lots of room for big driftwood without compromizing space for even fairly large fish.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~illustrae/Aquaria/pictures/pict0061.jpg

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

I'm also going to vote for the 50. More water, more water. I think, in the end, you will appreciate the extra height. My 55 AGA also has a center brace, so I will also assume an AGA 50 would as well (just as Bob said). Are you going to start a log for this project? I can't wait to see the set-up.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

LF,

Both the 40 and 50 would be nice but I like the 50 idea better.

Other tanks I have seen that you might like is a 55 cube(2x2x2?) or a 56 that is made by perfecto(30x24x18?)

I tried looking them up but I couldn't find them. Best of luck!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I guess what I will do is take one of my cheap background templates that I have for playing with my 20G, cut it to size of 36" by 19", and then see how that looks proportionally.

Maybe I even gonna draw some plants and wood on it, measuring their real size while looking at the 125G.

Then I will draw a line that is only 16" high and compare the difference. Maybe I even share a photo of this art work with you folks

Thanks again for all the input,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Think more of the 'scape.

Going hi-tech later is not an issue.

How much time do you have for trimming and shaping etc if you have a few hi tech tanks with a lot of stems? Is that really what you want ?

High tech doesn't mean a lot of work either.High Tech can still be simple. High tech doesn't = stem plants.

By a simple scape doesn't mean you limit yourself to just Anubias and Ferns. Plenty of other plants can be used which require no work. Blyxa, Lobelia, Tennellus, Hairgrass etc. But these will all work better in a shallow tank. Going high tech later would just improve these plants further.

So for me the scape and the amount of work I want to put in or avoid would be the primary decider on what size to get.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

So for me the scape and the amount of work I want to put in or avoid would be the primary decider on what size to get.

Well said, Sir Bensaf

So, last night I searched for a cardboard that would be large enough to cut out the tank side view in real size. Couldn't find one, so I drew a comparison in PowerPoint:

Attached Image:

50 on Top, 40 Below

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club