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Robyn and Garry:

thanks so much for checking in! I hope to be up and running with pics and an idea (to be discussed ) of my new lay out in a week - workload should be a bit lighter then.
Robyn, my tank is the standard AGA 72 bow (All Glass Aquarium, very popular here, I don't know what the equivalent is in Australia). Briefly: 20 inches (about 50 cm) tall and 120 cm long. Everything technical is in place except the cylinder for the CO2, which I have to pick up. Plants are Vals (taking over everything!), Anubias on driftwood, some tenellus that survived poor lighting, some java fern, Ludwigia repens, E. bleheri XL, 2 Crypt wendtii. I feel a bit restricted re plants because of the discus - you know by now yourself but would like to get somethig different, now that I have the nice lights. I am soo looking forward to this and lots of input and criticism - always welcome!

I will provide the same. I have a question for Robyn: I can not see older pics of your set up in your log, were they deleted?

And my sincerest compliments to Garry for his new layout - awesome! I am looking forward to see the tank mature.

/:'

And my sincerest compliments to Garry for his new layout - awesome! I am looking forward to see the tank mature

Well thanks Catdancer , very kind of you . I had a lot of help from the crowd around here . As I'm sure you will.

I'm looking forward to enjoying your tank as well .

Garry

Hi catdancer

I have a question for Robyn: I can not see older pics of your set up in your log, were they deleted?

Which of my logs do you mean? I have a 43G, 23G & 20G. I think they are all there in the 43G. It has gone through many changes & it's first looks are quite an embarrassement.

BTW, you might find this heartening as much as I did. I visited a discus forum and asked them about high temps & the effects of plants. Here's their input on this thread http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12993 I prefer to get my planted tank info & help here at FP & tend to only go to that site for specific help on either apistos or discus. They don't find a need to restrict plant choice, but I have to say, that just living in Aus restricts aquatic plant choice (& many other aquatic things are really hard to find here). So what I'm saying is, they might already be resitricted - but just not know it. hehehe

When do we get to see your pics? Plants & fish pls

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn:

I actually took some pics in a hurry yesterday while taking a break from work - they turned out grissly!

My workload will be a bit lighter in a day or two and then I will make up on my promise, can't wait to start redoing the tank! Right now you would see plenty of vals that have taken over the entire tank and two very large E. bleheri. Don't know what to do with these plants, the swords are really nice but I am after a different look for the tank.
So the discus forum thinks that there are no real consequences to plants due to high temperature? I have to say that I felt a bit retricted because of temperature constraints when I set up the tank initially.
Or did I misunderstand your remark? BTW - you are in AUS and feel restricted because of availability, when it comes to getting more 'sophisticated' items for a planted tank, it is very much the same here albeit for a different reason. At least in stores. In my area LFS have not warmed up to the idea of planted tanks and hobbyists that are willing to put in extra effort (and money) to have a nice underwater scape!

The pics that are missing in your log are older ones in the 43 G set up - such a disappontment as I wanted to see how you shaped up this tank. I really like it's current look.

I will put up some pics within a day or two and thanks for checking! I took a qujick look if you had put up some more info on your beauties

Claudia

The pics that are missing in your log are older ones in the 43 G set up

I don't know what happended to them, but I'm disappointed pictures from pages 8 to 9 are missing too. The pics pges 1-7 are there, but they are before a re-do of the tank. A moderator recently told me

when you attach images to a post, they are supposed to disappear something like 2-4 weeks after the thread has no more activity on it. if you want to post "permanent" images, you can use a hosting site like photobucket, flickr, imageshack, etc. once you have your pics up on a site that allows "hot-linking" (i.e. - embedded pics on webpages) you can use the "img" tags to add them to your posts.

That's why I now post my images this way - as they should never disappear. This doesn't explain why pages 1-7 have their pics, but pages 8 - 13 don't.

Matty - if you pop in, you're a mod, maybe you might know why the earliest pics are there & the middle pics are missing?

I took a qujick look if you had put up some more info on your beauties

I do owe a reply there, but my log will probably be fairly quiet until I manage to get started on the new tank. Not inclined to do much scape wise, when I will all be pulled down soon.

Look forward to your pics soon.

Cheers
TW

FINALLY I managed to take a break and start with the makeover of my discus tank. My LFS got a delivery of some nice plants so I decided to buy instead of ordering online. (Also in light of the fact that I am still pretty much w/o a layout in mind I decided to go with the choices at hand...). I got:

Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
Ludwigia repens red (broad leaf)
some dwarf sags

I removed A LOT of Vals that had taken over the back of the tank covering the substrate with runners entirely. A 5 G bucket was full and there are still way too many of them in the tank. I also removed a large piece of driftwood that was placed in the back right corner of the tank. Another piece that formed a cave was placed upright. Provides a lot of room for swimming!

I still have not hooked up the CO2 (need cylinder and gas) and the Eco-Complete is still in its bags ... maybe this holiday I will have the time to start the complete remake of the tank.
Right now I am thrilled that the Ludwigia is a nice focal point and adding color!

BTW, Robyn, saw some awesome pieces of petrified wood! You always stumble across the things you are not looking for ...

Here is a pic of the Ludwigia for starters (I promise to read the manual of my digital camera ...)

Attached Image:

Here is a not so great shot of some of my discus. The big pigeon blood is #1 in the hacking order, the diamond blue is the nasty little critter that annoys every other cichlid in the tank including the big angel

Attached Image:

Catdancer , Don't think you need much help with the photos , look pretty good to me !!!
Your Ludwigia is Ovalis ( think thats the right spelling ?) Just got some myself . I will be interested to see how yours go . Mines not going so well

Love the shots of the Discus , very nice . The Angel looks like a beauty as well . How old is he / she ?

Can't wait to see some full tank shots .

Garry

Love the Ludwigia - that's what I'm hanging out for - some red plants. The plants look really nice and healthy & your camera skills look just fine. Can we have a full tank shop pls.

Hope you get your C02 bottle soon. I bought myself a complete C02 setup tonight on ebay - complete with everything including the solenoid & pH controller - sweet.

When you swap the gravel over - do you have a holding tank for the fish, or how do you plan to do it?

Nice discus too. Can I see 2 diamond blues? Are there other discus in there besides these 3? I have been reading up on these fish ever since my purchase & will look on you as the discus expert from now on.

Cheers
TW

Garry,
thanks for your kind words! You have no idea how long it took to get a halfway decent shot but I'm getting there!
The angel is a fully grown male and as to his age - I don't know. I rescued him atlast years Cichlid Convention together with his mate. Otherwise, they would not have survived the show. I don't have the heart to give him to somebody else and he is quite a character. As to the Ludwigia - you are probably right, they were described as broad leaf red only. According to info gathered from some sites they should do fine ... what are the problems you are hinting at?

I have been reading up on these fish ever since my purchase & will look on you as the discus expert from now on.

Oh boy, I will have to live up to something! Congrats on your e-bay purchase, it is a great place to get equipment, I got my lights from there as well! As for my cylinder, I have located the store where to buy and get it filled.

Right now I have a total of 4 discus. Two Blue diamond and two pigeonblood. The second pigeon is without the marble-like pattern of the big guy in the pic. It is very red with some iridescent turquoise scribbles (which do not show well in a picture). This fish is the archetypical Discus-primadonna! Skittish, a fuzzy eater and inclined to hiding, especially if presented with a camera. The others aren't like that at all. I want to get another discus to have the odd number that is supposed to reduce aggression and encourage positive group behaviour, or so psychologists say and not for fish only.

I do have a holding tank set up for the big makeover equipped with a heater and an airline,if necessary I can attach a Whisper filter to it. Admittedly, I am not really looking forward to do this project because discus are involved (and pre-conceived notions die hard). I plan to be done within one day so the fish can go back in the late evening. In the past weeks I've performed a lot of cleaning up already to reduce the time frame involved as much as possible. Still, the big anubias needs a bleach drip and the driftwood some thorough cleaning as well. Not to mention that I am still kind of in the dark with respect to the layout!!!

Below a picture of the primadonna on the run from the blue diamond

Attached Image:

catdancer , Not sure yet, only had the Ovalis for a couple of weeks . All of the bottom leaves fell off and floated around the tank.
But I notice this week that they are sending down lots of roots and some new growth at the top , so may be ok .

Love the shots of the Discus , hope your makover goes well .
Love to see some shots and commentry on the process as I'm going to do the same on my 60g once I get the big tank settled.
Always interested to learn from others experiences

Enjoy
Garry

Well, preparing for the big 'mudslide' aka makeover tomorrow. Still no CO2 cylinder here but went quickly to a company that does refills and also sells tanks. however, the price for an old steel cylinder floored me: $120.00 for 10 lb plus tax! I saw several brand new aluminum cylinders on the Internet with safety guarantee. According to the manager he would personally go for those if safety concerns can be ruled out - the valve of his 10 lb supposedly is already extremely pricey.

Any thoughts based on personal experience?

Hi,
You may want to look elsewhere in town for 5 pound bottles.
You have two choices, you can rent or you can outright
purchase the bottles. I'd suggest that you rent them to
start with.
Every 5 years the bottle must, by federal law, be safety
checked. It's called a hydrostatic test and verifies that
the bottle will safely hold the pressure that its rated at.
Each bottle must be tested, and if you own the bottle, you
pay for the test - $15 in my neck of the woods.

I'm sure you noticed that many of them are pretty banged
up and abused with scratches and peeling paint, they can
be real eye sores.
If you look through the inventory, you should find one
or two that are in pretty good shape.
Rent those, and when empty, instead of just dropping
the empty of and exchanging it for another filled one
on the shelf, simply request that you get that
particular one back. At the place I use, they simply
fill out a tag, hand you the stub, and you come back
on Saturday to pick it up. That way you don't have to
hide the tanks out of sight.

Depending upon your water chemistries and how much CO2 you
have to inject to maintain your desired saturation you
might give serious consideration to having two. In my
situation, my water runs a little over a pH of 7 and I
inject CO2 to bring it down to 6.6. When a bottle empties,
the pH rebounds back to the mid to upper 7s. I've goofed
a couple of times and not noticed that the tank was
becoming empty and I don't like to submit the fish to
that kind of pH change. So when it happens, I have to
slowly, over a period of days, keep increasing the rate of
injection till the pH and therefore CO2 saturation is
where I want it. Its easier if you have a filled
replacement sitting there to connect.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank:

Thanks! This is exactly what i want to do, just have to find the right place and that is where it gets diffcult where I live. My water here is 7.4 out of the tap and I know that CO2 brings it easily down to 6.5 from past experience with the hagen Nutrafin set up. Would you suggest to go for 5 lb or 10 lb? it is a 72 G and I plan to shut of the gas at night. Reason I am asking is that I do not want to run for refills frequently.

hi catdancer

Hope the mudslide went smoothly for you.

BTW, your primadonna looks really beautiful. Sort of shimmery.

US$120 for 10lb gas bottle

That would be a bargain where I come from. I'm looking at a similar size for AUD$279 (US$239). I agree with Frank about having a spare gas bottle - very handy to have. No need to rush off in a panic, due to an empty bottle. Just swap over what you have & deal with the empty when your schedule permits. I'm the same as Frank - I don't like to subject my fish to the jump in pH that an empty bottle causes (6.6 to 7.8). As all my bottles are small (3 x 1.6 lb & 1x 2.7 lb) my changovers are too frequent. That's why I'm looking at the larger size now (will probably sell 2 of the smallest bottles to help finance it & keep the other 2 as spares). My C02is pH controlled, rather than switched off at night. Most here don't use the pH controller & it's certainly not necessary - it's just that I like it. I think I use less C02 than if it switched off at "lights out". If I switched it off at "lights out", every day at "lights on" it would need to do a big catch up, where as this way, my system turns on & off during the whole 24 hour cycle & keeps everything constant.

Look forward to seeing the tank with it's new substrate. You went with eco, I think?

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn:

Thanks for the input and nice to know that my $120 bottle is a bargain, unbelievable how much yu have to spend in AUS

Right now I am tempted to get a new one from eBay, just to have something to start with! The back up model could be a small one.

I started with the makeover following a different strategy - sort of last minute change in plans after talking to a colleague who just redid his tank (replacement of substrate). I kept the fish in the tank. I started out with removing the anubias that were covered with nasty algae from my plant melt down (low light induced) and cleaned them with bleach. Worked like a charm!
Right now I have replaced 30% of the gravel with Eco (eek - I forgot that I had applied laterite below the gravel ...). The worst is done (I hope) as I have removed ALL Vals, I think I had >200 of those! Replanted a few and removed part of the driftwood as well. Yesterday I got some plans at a store (never ever buy w/o consulting a book). I got 3 bushels of Rotala Indica and a bushel of Ludwigia peruensis for free. turns out that R. Indica also goes by R. Rotundifolia of which I am not so fond of ... and that L. peruensis is a subspecies of L. glandulosa that supposedly can increase water hardness!! I hope the latter report is not correct.

Besides that, I need layout assistance, seriously! Right now I am too tired to even get decent pics. Probably tomorrow to get an idea what people think

Everybody fish is accounted for and chipper and the discus gobbled down their dinner already.

catdancer, Glad to hear your redo is going well .
Can you give us an idea of what your looking to do as far as the scape goes ?
Some photos or a rough layout . Some of the guys around here are really great at this stuff and can help if you give them a starting point .

Garry

Garry:

thanks for checking in! I ordered a CO2 tank today as it was impossible to get a decnetly priced used one locally!

I will spend the rest of the evening reading the manual of my camera to finally take reasonable shots of the entire tank. I will post them ASAP. Tomorrow I will attempt to complete the 'refurbishing', may have to pick up some additional plants as I would really like to get a front cover in some parts. Do you have Lilaeopsis in your tank?

CatDancer

What kind of camera you got? I would suggest that if you set the camera up on its highest image, then take the shot at a slight angle you wont get any light reflections. Hopefully that will give ya a start. I have a Cannon Rebel Xti and im still getting the hang of it hehe.

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

hey cat dancer i pm'ed you about spare co2 but then i noticed that frank already mentioned having a spare. just in case you dont get that message, i stated that paintball gun bottles are cheap and direct matches. the only problem is paintball bottles are only 1Lb bottles so they would be severly short term bottle (backup only) unless on a reall small tank

*click *flash *click "whered he go???"

catdancer,

Long time no entry, but here I am:

What is wrong with L. repens? I used to have it in my 29G and it can be a nice plant as a background to midground group.

L. grandulosa raises the water hardness? How would it go about doing that? Hardness is mostly calcium (for GH) or carbonates (for KH) and this would mean that the plant releases eiter or into the water column. Sounds like bull to me, but one never finishes to learn.

I am not so fond of your redo procedure , very risky. In particular with the Laterite in the old substrate. I would suggest loads of water changes, maybe 40% every other day at least. You released loads of iron into the water column with the laterite being exposed to the water, and stirred up. Adding the Eco may also have caused some leaching of ferts from it into the water when passing through the remaining 30% of water.

Well, I sure hope I am making something out of nothing here and all will settle just nicely.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
Running the CO2 24/7 or turning it off with the lights...
It's a debate that has been going on for years. Mostly
the advocates are folks who are trying to conserve money.

If you turn off the CO2 with the lights, then the pH will
change, as the CO2 saturation shifts downward toward the
normal 15mg/l level. Now, this happens in nature,
but possibly not as much in a lake or stream as it
would in a small aquarium. In an aquarium the
effect could be a larger swing.

The gas is not that expensive. A 5 pound bottle lasts me
nearly 6 months at 2 bubbles per second, and the refill is
only $9 and some change for tax.

Folks who turn the gas off and on with the lights use a
valve (Cut off valve) that is connected to the light timer.
Not a true "Controller."

A "Controller" has inputs (jacks) that are connected to
various probes. One of them is a pH probe. The probe is
immersed in the tank water, and the controller is set to
maintain a specific pH, +/- a small amount. For instance
you could set your controller to, say, 6.6 and the
controller will, through the use of the cut off valve,
turn the gas on to reach the 6.6 pH setting, and then turn
the gas off when 6.6 is reached. As the water gives up its
CO2 and the pH rises, the probe will sense that rise, and
the controller will turn the gas on again to bring the pH
back down to the desired setting. You control the amount
of "swing" that occurs between the pH High and Low values
by adjusting the controller tolerance.

Some folks will use a timer to turn off the CO2 and turn
on an air pump and air stone when the lights go out, and
then reverse the process when the lights come on.

The whole discussion is based on the plants themselves.
During the night period, plants shift from giving off O2
to using O2. The fear (mostly, really unjustified)
is that the fish using O2 and giving off CO2 combined
with the plants now using O2, will deprive the fish of
the necessary O2 to live and they (the fish) could die of
suffocation. Rather than risk this, and to conserve CO2
gas, they turn off the tanks at night and/or they turn on
an air pump and air stone at night.

It's all really unnecessary. The only way the fish will
"suffer" is if that tank is so crammed with fish that it
resembles a tank full of "feeders" at your LFS that has
just been stocked with a new order and they are all gasping
at the surface for air. I dare say that none of us stock
our tanks that heavily. The plants simply do not use that
much O2 that the fish will be deprived. That leaves the
old $$$ as the reason for purchasing a very expensive piece
of equipment and accessories, just to save pennies on a
tank of gas.

The way to tell if the fish are distressed by the overnight
lack of O2 is to come down to the tank first thing in the
morning. If the fish are at the surface gasping for air
then the O2 is depleted and you should move some fish to
make room, or add an air pump and air stone. Be sure that
they don't know you are there and are simply begging for
food.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Ingo:

Nice to hear from you again! Regular water changes are exactly what I did and I started with a rigorous cleaning of the gravel a while ago knowing that it would have to go anyway. Water changes were done every other day to remove 'dust particles', thankfully the water never turned cloudy. Would I do it this way again? Certainly not! It was a decision on the spur of the moment based on my coleagues description of his recent redo, plsu I remembered the tantrum two of my discus threw when I netted them out of the quarantine tank.
Today I will continue with the 'mudslide'. For the remaining portion of the tank I know by now where the laterite is located and will leave this part untouched to keep it as a thin layer underneath the Eco. You think this will be okay?

What is wrong with L. repens?

Nothing, I am very fond of this plant and think about getting some more.. or do you think thee is something wrong with mine in the photo?

L. grandulosa raises the water hardness? How would it go about doing that?

My point, when I read this first I thought 'what a bunch of BS", then I came across an 'experiment' someone had performed placing this plant and a different one in separate but identical set ups and noticed a raise in hardness. I am with you, does not make any sense at all. The plants I got were freebies and pretty chewed up, however, there are already new leaves! One thing that I do not like about them is the description of shrub like appearance when bigger with stems that appear wood-like...

The plant I am not so fond of is the R. indica, it looked quite different in the dealers tank so I did not make the connection to R. rotundifolia, which I personally do not consider this attractive. On theother hand, it might turn into a pleasant surprise with my lighhting and CO2.

Thanks and looking forward to getting more input!

Hi fishmonster (shane):

I have a Sony Cybershot 5.0 DSC-V1 and for quite a while. It works great for most applications but the 'decent photos of aquarium' project is unsatisfactory at the moment. My problem is being reluctant to read manuals ... or any manuals to be precise

Hi Frank and sodaaddict:

thanks again for your input! I just ordered a 10 lb bottle and will get a used smaller one as a back up to prevent CO2 deficiency during refilling time (it takes at least one day). I hope that the 10 lb will last me for quite a while. The pH where I am is 7.4 when it comes out of the tab, but it decreased to 6.6 - 6.8 when I supplemented the 72 g with the Hagen Nutrafin system (2x). My tanks are not heavily stocked and I will test for pH swings during the initial set up period. BTW, got all the equipment to shut off (was included in the combo set up). No reasonable priced used tanks available hee but several refill stations close by, i guess that is not too bad.

What is wrong with L. repens?

See, I had too much to read to catch up, LOL.

Yeah, I typed wrong but meant R. indica/rotundifolia. If the pics are still there then you can see it in early shots of my 29 log. Tetratech also used it, or still does, in his 72G.

L. grandulosa - if you can, put a link up to that site where someone makes the hardness statement. Not that I don't trust you, but I would like to see what else this person has to say

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Not that I don't trust you,

Watch it!

this is the first link, will try to find the other one as well, it is on APC, held in such high esteem... I read it again and it is not entirely clear to me how different the set ups were, there is also no follow up on this

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plant-physiology-emersed-culture/40799-ludwigia-peruensis-raises-kh.html

The posting is pretty recent and I was tempted to ask this member about the final result and his conclusion as to the source of carbonate in his set up

catdancer,

Once in a while I am in an argumentative mood, but currently I am not. If I were then I would add some entries to that bartoli guy's threads, but as I am not I am only going to rant here .

That is a lot of BS. Here is the typical case of someone advancing in the hobby and desperately trying to leave a footprint. Unfortunately, what he says is mostly unfounded. He uses Black Earth mixed with dolomite lime. There is your reason. I got this info by looking into other threads he participated in. That one is from HERE. Obviously, he has a lot of chemical reactions going on in his tank, he ain't Ms. Walstad.

In one more THREAD he mentions the KH raising discovery again, but gets shut down right away .

Anyway, just my opinion.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Gee thanks!

Admittedly, I don't even have the nerve and energy to follow up with someone like that. Dolomite lime ... and it leached more in one tank than the other, great!

The 'mudslide' is over and the Eco Complete has replaced the old gravel/laterite substrate. Over the last couple of weeks I added several more plants and removed the vast majority of Vals which had taken over the entire tank. I also removed two pieces of driftwood to have more room for plants and swimming for the inhabitants of the tank. The first 'invasive procedure' was bleach treatment of two anubias. Acknowledgements to Mike F. and his nice description on the NJAGC web site!

The second invasive procedure was removal of the Vals (>200 !), these plants had taken over the entire tank as they adapted readily to the 'nightlight' conditions (64 W for 72 G ... thanks again to the LFS who sold me this as sufficient for a planted tank ), most other plants did not adapt and the rapid accumulation of degraded biomaterial led to a situation that was very becoming to the frowth aof organisms a little bit lower on the evolutionary ladder. The first picture shall serve as a nice example!

Everything is in place except the CO2 set up - I will receive the tank next week. The lights are on for 8 hours with 130 W with a burst of 4 hours with full power of 260 W for the time w/o CO2.

I promise to post more pics of the entire tank (admittedly NO scape at all at the moment!)



and after treatment:

and a 'round fish'

Acknowledgements to Mike F. and his nice description on the NJAGC web site!

LOL, are you following our entries over there?

So you must have seen pictures of my tank setups in the event section, right?

Glad to hear that the bleaching seems to have worked, I remember that I overdid it once and although all looked good initially all leaves of the anubias eventually died

Be careful with the high light and no addition of CO2, or are you adding Excel daily?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So you must have seen pictures of my tank setups in the event section, right

Yup! I went there after seeing your display "Proud member ..." I greatly admire your set ups, although I hardly ever reply on fishprofiles - simply because I feel I do not have much to contribute aside from "Great, beautiful, etc" and that gets boring quickly. I lack the imagination for improvement of already sophisticated tanks. So here you have my praise for all of them!

or are you adding Excel daily?

Every day for quite a while already, even before I found out that the major source of the plant die off was weak lighting.

catdancer, Glad to hear everything is going well . Can't wait to see some full tank shots

Garry

Garry thanks!

I finally read my camera's manual (all 112 pages!) and got some first full shots of the tank yesterday. A little bit mre playing around and I will post them. Your time as aquascape judge will come soon

Some household chores in the tank: dusting of plants and filters, there was a fine film of left over laterite covering all surfaces. Sucked it out to prevent the formation of a 'sticky bottom' for organic growth. The tank looks pretty empty without the loads of Vals. Especially height is missing. Removed one stem (better: stick) of the chewed up L. glandulosa, all the other plants look healthy and the stem plants are definitely growing.

I remember that I overdid it once and although all looked good initially all leaves of the anubias eventually died

a little trick: I used an already damaged leave (unsuccessful manual removal of algae) as 'indicator': excessive bleaching (time wise) becomes quickly apparent in damaged tissue as the chloroplasts containing the chlorophyll are faster accessed than in healthy leaves. At the first sight of discoloring I removed the plants and started with the rinsing and neutralization. Sofar so good, but of courses, only time will tell

Hi catdancer. Wow, that bleaching seemed to work a treat. Would you mind either expanding on how you do it, including the trick "indicator of excessive bleaching" or maybe giving the link for the info? Several of my anubias could do with a good dunk too. Had considered getting some cherry shrimp to do the job, but apparently, our round fish would make short work of them. I can't quite see them doing it though somehow - they are such bad shots when it comes to aiming for food. I'm sure the cherry's would have time to get away. What do you think?

Anxiously waiting to see the new pics, now that you've read your manual

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

here is the link :
http://www.njagc.net/articles/mikes38gmakeover.htm

The little trick works this way: your anubias has a leave that appears to be damaged (a little hole, damaged surface, tears with light browning or otherwise disintegration around the edges). You place the plant in the bath and watch. It will take several minutes (~ 3) before you notice any effects at all. Finally the algae will turn grayish or slightly yellow, depending on the type you are dealing with. You may wonna scrup a leave lightly to see if the algae comes off. If not, watch for discoloration of the damaged leave! As soon as you see the first signs of yellowing, you take the plant out and start rinsing it under fresh water. Follow with several baths of fresh tap water and add generous swigs of dechlorinator. Mike F. describes it pretty well. I mostly followed his suggestions.

Cherry Shrimps: I do not trust my discus! 3 of them aren't bad shots at all, only the Primadonna is ... you should see a 4.5 inch discus balancing in almost horizontal position under a tenellus leave just to get to a wafer that dropped there! Not to mention the feeding frenzy on Bloodworm-Day. Amano shrimp however are bigger and they might stand a chance. BTW, I got two SAE and they are busy hunting algae

Yep, I am improving with the camera, stay tuned



If you need conversion "cup" to metric I can provide it