FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Robyn,

Somehow your main tank Kh seems to make at least some sense. Maybe it does take a while until all the chemicals are removed via water changes. But then there is the QT, that doesn't make sense at all. Have you ever tried to take a series of KH tests on the same take, like about 15min apart? I wonder how accurate your test kit is.

In any case, having 3 as the lowest would be pretty good and should not create a reason for you to worry about the ph drop, IMHO.

And with regards to"...impressive time for 30K..." : Well, that was 20 years ago, before I started smoking, and when my daily job activity included a lot of running around, and even more screaming and yelling .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Its a Sera test kit, and only relatively new (maybe Feb or early March). I'll test tonight, both tanks, a couple of times, & see if I get consistent results.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Isn't it fun - I am sure you had no idea how much work is involved in a planted tank. Now you have to do hours of testing the same water over and over again just to make sure that the kit is stable .

But again, once all is figured out then the work becomes much less. This is where tetratech is right now with his 72G. I am far away from it .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I've now checked my KH 3 times tonight, from each source (Community, QT & tap). 3 times the community tank tested 4KH, 3 times tap tested 2KH and QT tested twice @ 5KH & once at 4KH.

QT has pH-Down in it (contains sodium biposphate). Could that product be influencing test results?

Community did have pH-Down & KH raising product previously, but since the last addition of either of those chemicals, there have been 2 x 50% water changes.

Both tanks have epsom salt added to them at water change. I don't understand why tap results are so different to tank results.

On a fishy note, I now have 10 harlequin rasboras transferred from QT into community. Very pretty to watch.



Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,

Trying to answer some of your questions:

"QT has pH-Down in it (contains sodium biposphate). Could that product be influencing test results?" - Yes, I have heard more than once that these kind of ph-altering products influence the result.

"there have been 2 x 50% water changes" - partially same as the previous answer. But also, the first 50% water change removed 50%, the second removed another 25%. So 25% should still be in there. But I don't know how long it stays active.

"I don't understand why tap results are so different to tank results" - I would think because of the answers provided above. I would trust my tab water KH the most and if it is only 2dH (after it settled) then I would add baking soda, maybe 1tsp to begin with, to the tank. A few hours (or a day) later, I would check the tank's KH and decided if I would need more or not.

"On a fishy note, I now have 10 harlequin rasboras transferred from QT into community" - You know that I own their cousins, right? I think that most of us in the Planted *** gang have some form of Rasbora, with the exception of tetratech.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo

Thanks for the info. Should I add the baking soda now, or wait until or if my KH drops to 2KH. I keep remembering Bensaf telling me (when my KH was 3) not to mess with it. Currently still at 4KH.

Yes, I know you have the rasboras cousins & that you have a little business on the side selling them to your LFS. Good to see a little return coming your way

C02 was disconnected for a couple of days as the bubble counter was leaking water in my cabinet (fixed now) and while we were looking at that problem, the regulator was dropped & the little part the silicone tube fits onto snapped off. Luckily LFS had one laying around in store, 'cause they told us that Dupla don't make it as a spare. Anyway, it's been back running again since 5pm Saturday. Fingers crossed, no more hiccups.

I find that the flow of bubbles is really to keep constant. The rate seems to turn down all by itself. Supposedly, I bought a good brand, so I don't know why it should do this.

Cheers
TW

I have a question re: counting the bubbles. There are 2 places where I can see a possibility of counting the bubbles, either inside the bubble counter itself, or I can also see to count the bubbles as they exit the bubble counter & enter the silicon tubing. The bubbles I can see entering the bubble counter are going at a much faster rate that the bubbles I can see exiting the bubble counter. Which should I be counting? I have been counting the faster bubbles inside the counter - but have I been doing it wrong?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Let's hope that this was the last of your CO2 problems, if this continues then the algae monster will make a visit for sure.

About the bubbles: the one we measure and compare with each other are the bubbles in the bubble counter, where the red arrow points to. The blue line is the approximate fill level for water.

Irregular bubble rates over time: does your regulater come with two gages? One for the tank pressure and one for the pressure towards the needle valve? If so, what does the latter read? Maybe you have it too low, I think it should read 20 (we can make sure later if you do have this gage - give me your value).

Selling the Espei wasn't much of an income, at $1 per fish (cost $4 at the LFS if you want to buy them), in particular because I turned around and instantly bought the two Apistos for $80 .

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo

My regulator has one gauge only, just for tank pressure. So my only guide for the rate is the bubble counter & monitoring the pH value in the tank. Oh, & I also have one of the permanent C02 measurer's in the tank too. Colour of that is green, which indicates that the level of C02 is good.

I too hope this is my last issue & that all goes smoothly. Seems though, that my bottle will only last about 1 week at a time. Oh well.

I knew about your Apistos - I've seen the pictures. Very nice fish. Any luck with breeding yet?



Cheers
TW

Robyn,

That sounds odd to me: one week for the bottle to go on empty? I know that the rate of depletion is not proportional (smaller bottles deplete proportionally faster than large ones), but my 5 liter bottle at a much higher bubble rate lasted over 20 weeks. I would assume yours should for sure then last 4 to 5 weeks, even if you would have it on 24/7.

Did you ever check for a leak?

These color indicator strip are a piece of ***. What does green mean? What does good mean? Not too long ago, even experienced plant nerds assumed that 10ppm is good, now they are driving the values beyond 30ppm.

The Apistos are not breeding at this time. I am glad they seemed to have settled nicely (although they will be moved soon again, from the QT into the main tank). I had bad luck in the past with a lovely pair of German Rams , so I am exited that these fish stayed alive and have colored up nicely.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

If the bubble counter leaking water then it was also leaking gas

Check all connections for leaks by rubbing on some soapy water and check for bubbles. Dishwashing liquid mixed 50/50 with water is good.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I've tested for leaks by brushing on a 50/50 mix of water/detergent. There were bubbles from the detergent mix itself, but I don't think there were any additional bubbles. Hopefully, the repairs to the bubble counter have taken care of the leak of C02. LFS used a silicone sealer around the top of bubble counter (can still take apart from the bottom for cleaning).

Also, I think I've been running it at too high a rate. Slowed it down today to 3 bubbles per second.

I can see evidence of new growth. My filter has little indents & I've been able to see in the last 3 days that a leaf that was reaching the bottom indent only, is now reaching the 3rd level of indents.

To try to make the C02 last longer, I've altered my lighting schedule to one that I can manually turn C02 on & off in sequence with. A little annoying, as lights & C02 will turn off at 5pm now, so I won't get to visually enjoy my tank so much.

These color indicator strip are a piece of ***. What does green mean? What does good mean?

Ingo, I suspect your comment probably still applies, but it's not one of those dip stick type strips. It's a little container in which you put some liquid test solution in & then attach it to a wall of your tank (mine is diagonally opposite & the farest point possible from the reactor), below water surface level. Instructions don't talk about what level ppm applies to each colour reading, but allegedly blue = too low, green = correct level & yellow = too high.

I bought some wisteria, which at the moment is in a bucket of water. At next water change I'm going to plant it & I hope it will give good cover for fry. Ingo, did you have to do anything special to entice your espi to breed?



Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I am glad you got your CO2 back up and running

Too bad that you have to manually switch your CO2 on and off, I can't wait until you have a solenoid so you can enjoy your tank some more. With this changed routine, how long is the lighting period now? Also, while we are at it, are you keeping up with the fertilizers (what and how much and how often)?

About the color CO2 fancier : Any control tool that has only 3 colors, no matter how it is driven (strip or liquid or what not) is highly unreliable. I think I linked you to Chuck Gadd's Chart before, but this time look at the colors it has (scroll down on page to see chart). The level that is considered "Good" in the chart has a range from 11ppm to 24ppm, that is over 100% difference in CO2 concentration. And if that is not enough, you know that we () recommend levels even higher than that, 30ppm, that this chart would indicate as too high. You know what I mean?

did you have to do anything special to entice your espi to breed?

Love, lots of love

No seriously. For one thing, I had a nice sized group to begin with, 12 fishies. And more importantly, pretty much an empty tank to begin with with loads of plants for fry to hide in. Espei, and your Harlies, like to lay their eggs on the underside of broad leaved plants, like Anubias, Ludiwigia Repens, Pennywort, and the like. I have much less fry now as the tank is rather fully stocked and chance encounters of fish and fry (aka snack) are way more likely to happen. Also, even before the fry hatch, more fish are likely to watch a pair mate and lay eggs and they will go and eat them.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo,

My lights are on 7am & turn off 5pm, so 10 hours a day. My gas tank empties at a frightening pace. I may have been running it at too high a rate & I hope to get better at that, which might help. My ferts are:-

KH2P04 1/16th Tspn x 3 times a week
KN03 1/2 Tspn x 3 times a week
Traces 10ml x 3 times a week
1/4 tspn epsom salt with water change

Took a break from ferts when C02 was not working, but back on schedule now. Can't wait till I have a solenoid too. My altered light timing schedule bothers me (only cause it means tank is dark for most of the time I'm home). But weekends will be great!!! At start-up, I need to adjust bps rate each time. I look forward to when I can just set & forget (yes, yes, I know I will still need to monitor). Hoping for an August birthday present, maybe, if I'm lucky. Next on my shopping list after the solenoid, will be a spare gas bottle.

Sounds like there's not much chance of my harlies successfully breeding. I have a good batch (10) but my tank is almost fully stocked, so lots of chance encounters of fish & fry. I don't have any Anubias, Ludwigia Repens or Pennywort. I have Red Ludwigia. I might try to get lots of petite nana for foreground (try to get a grass look - would that work?) Are the other plants you mention suitable for low light tanks & are they fast growers? Maybe I should concentrate on low light/fast growers for the time being? I'd like to provide as much fry cover as I can. Even if I don't keep the fry, I like to grow them & I'm enjoying caring for my mollie & platy fry. I have some wisteria to plant tomorrow & would like to get some water sprite soon, which I read somewhere makes for good fry cover.

Thanks again for the good advice.



Cheers
TW

How about these plants for foreground in a medium low light tank :- petite nana or creeping rush (aka star grass)???

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Water Sprite grows like mad , at least it did in my 125. If you skim through the first couple of pages in my log then you will discover the section where I added the Water Sprite and pictures from the weekly updates will show you how fast it was growing. Much faster than Wisteria, actually, faster than any plant I ever had.

Nana Petite for the foreground: Sounds like a good idea, but you will need to purchase loads. I don't know what the prize is in Aussie Land, but here we pay around $5 per plant and each plant is about 2cm long. Growth of Nana is really slow (all Anubias are very slow growers, but don't require loads of light) and planting it in the substrate can be a major pain in the neck. The roots are tiny and every time you try to vacuum in that area you will suck up a few that then will have to be replanted (Anubias have a rhizome = big vertical part of the root system that cannot be buried or the plant will die). Most of the time people tie Anubias Nana Petite to a rock and place it on the substrate. You could do this as well, but you would need loads of rock to cover the whole foreground.

Star Grass is Heteranthera zosterifolia, and the plant you refer to as creeping rush cannot be it. Look at the latest pictures in my log to see Star Grass, it is the really high plant group behind my wood structure.

Did you look into Pygmy Chain Swords (Echinodorus tenellus) as an option for the foreground? I would not recommend to fill in the whole area but it may be suited for some parts of it. The plant, in low light (how low are you again? ), would not grow very high and runners would spread it out. Just a thought.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Petite Nana sounds too much of a pain in the neck. Checked out the light requirements of Heteranthera zosterifolia - too high for me. I have 2 x 25w & 1 x 20W fluro tubes, over 43.5G. That's 1.63WPG.

My photo skills are poor, plus my camera is very basic. I tried to take a photo of some leaves with the brown spots.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's a shot of one of my bolivian rams. Sorry for the poor shot.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

This one shows fluffy algae on my rocks. There was more, but I cleaned some off during tonight's water change.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's a few shots with my new wisteria planted. It's not tall enough yet, but I really like the light, bright colour of this plant. I think I'll either get some more of it, or else the water sprite. Just skip the posts if the pics are boring, cause there are a few. They're good for me to have here, as a record of my changing tank.

Attached Image:

Left Hand side of tank

Cheers
TW

Here's the middle

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's the right hand side.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's the full shot

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Just skip the posts if the pics are boring

Are you kidding? That is what makes logs interesting for the "average" reader. Without pictures and us only babbeling about some crazy algae or plant a log would be rather boring. And - as has been said many times before - a picture speaks more than 1000 words

About the fluffy algae? it seems to grow in bushels, right? That would be BBA that prefers to grow on hardscape and very slow growing plants. Is it growing back or are the areas that you cleaned free of it forever (so far)? I would say it has to do with the recent CO2 irregularities, but maybe the others know more about it.

Ingo

EDIT: Oh, forgot to say something about the tank. - it looks very nice. If I had a choice between Wisteria and Water Sprite I would select Wisteria anytime. Water Sprite is not as pretty, but it grows faster. And I like your line-up of breeing traps

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the comments Ingo. Last night was the 1st time I tried cleaning the BBA, so too soon to know if it will grow back. I didn't do a very good job of cleaning it off though. Next water change I might scrubb it with a toothbrush or something. I'm trying to keep my hands out of the tank in between weekly water changes - so it can wait till then.

I know the breeding tanks spoil the look, but my babies are too little to risk swimming free in the tank. I have 2 breeders, because the mollies are older (bigger) & I don't want them snacking on the smaller (younger) platys. My biggest fish in the tank is the ram, but the most aggressive is probably the mum mollie. How big do fry need to be, do you think, before I can let them join the big boys? I accidently bumped & sank the breeding trap at last week's water change (not last nights). 3 platys had the good sense to stay where they were, but one brave fellow swam off & was never seen again - can only assume he quickly became a snack.

Cheers
TW

That looks really nice. I love the hardscape, it makes the tank look really deep. Lookin' good.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

can only assume he quickly became a snack

Maybe yes, maybe no

I don't have Mollies and as such I cannot recommend any fry size which would be considered save. But I can tell you a story, sorry if I may have told it before:

When my first batch of Platy fry arrived in my tank I had no idea what was going on. Sure thing, all were eaten. I even saw one fry swim right up into the open water, just to be a zebra danio snack about 2 seconds later.
So, the next time when the platy was ready, so was I. I managed to "rescue" 9 fry from the tank by carfully staring into the water for 2 hours straight and then fishing them out and placing them in a breeder net. I fed the little ones, vacuumed carfully within the breeder net, for weeks and weeks. Then, as they got bigger, I sectioned off a corner of my tank (BTW, you can see the sectioned tank picture in my 29G log - first picture - in the aquascaping forum) and kept them in there for another few months (maybe 1 to 2). All 9 survived . Ever since then, I have not "rescued" any more platies and adult fish took care of the fry/snacks. But one or the other fry managed to survive by hiding for most of the day. Eventually they came out and the adults git used to the visuals of very small fish. By now I have the impression that the adults don't even bother with fry anymore. Even maybe 1 week old fry dares to come out during feeding time. And - as a result - I have a platy population explosion.

Moral - Don't worry, in a well planted tank there is almost no way that you won't end up like this (but I know that you can trade them in).

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks mattyboombatty. I was scared at 1st to show my tank, 'cause I thought the planted tank guys wouldn't like my rocks (they take up valuable plant space). They do, I know, but I like how they force me to have some free swimming space above the rocks & that they make little rock tunnels/caves here & there.

Ingo, I hope you are right about the fry. I have had several batches left free swimming & none so far have made it. The longest was about a week. I've planted another 3 bunches of wisteria (each bunch had 3-4 stems) so now you (almost) cannot see the back of the tank. I hope that gives new fry more chance. I'm going to keep the 3 platy fry I have now & I'm trying to talk my son into having a tank for the mollies (as I don't have room in my tanks). But any more I will have to give away to LFS. He looks after me well, so I don't care if I get credit or not, as long as he takes care of them. He's a small business person & I can see most customers are regulars, so I hope that means they'll go to good homes.

Cheers
TW

I was at LFS last night filling up my gas bottle. He told me that black gravel is not good for a planted tank & that it will push my pH up, fighting the C02 in trying to bring pH down.

Does anyone know if that's true. I sure hope not, as changing the gravel would mean pulling my whole tank apart. I'm just not prepared to do that, so I hope he's wrong. Anyone know???

Cheers
TW

He told me that black gravel is not good for a planted tank

Black gravel in general or your black gravel in specific? Did he give you any reason why this would be the case? I would assume that your gravel (as true black is usually not a natural color) is coated with some shiny stuff, did he mention that this coat may come off? How about calling the manufacturer and trying to find out?

I would assume he is wrong. What would raise the ph - probably rock leaching calcium into the water column. In this case, just take out one of the bigger grains, scrape off the top layer and pour some vinegar on it. If you see strong bubbles forming then he would be right.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

He said "natural" black gravel & wasn't talking about mine specifically, but what he called "natural" black gravel. But if I read your reply correctly, there's no such thing. Anyway, I grabbed out a grain, scratched the surface with a knife & poured on the vinegar. From what I could see, there were no bubbles. So that should mean, I'm ok and, at least in my case, he's wrong. Thanks for the advice.

Cheers
TW

There are types of naturl black gravel. Stuff like crushed coal.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

There are types of naturl black gravel. Stuff like crushed coal.

If that is true and you would have crushed coral then yes, this would raise the ph. But the vinegar test should have detected that, if I am not mistaken. In this case, I also would assume that the gravel packaging material would mention that it contains coral.

To eliminate all concerns, do you know the brand and name of the gravel, maybe even who makes it? It can't harm to try to call them and to find out from the source directly. I would advice not to ask "is this gravel altering the ph?" rather phrase the question like "what is the gravel make off (or something like that)".

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'll have to go visit that particular LFS. Do you remember my long ago post about my 8 rasboras all dying in less than a week? Anyway, it came from there & it was in an unlabeled plastic bag, from what I remember anyway.

Next time I'm that way, I'll stop in and ask. Thanks again Wings & Ingo.

Cheers
TW

If that is true and you would have crushed coral then yes

Not coral but coal! I do know where you were going with it though. What I was talking about was from page 94 of Peter Hiscock's Encyclopedia of Aquarium plants. It says that coal, is a striking rock that is safe for the tank. it shows both a rock and of it broken down.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ups,

I guess I have to get glasses, or I only read crushed and the letter c that follows and automatically assumed coral.

Yeah, I haven't heard that coal would influnece the ph, but I haven't heard otherwise either.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This is the 1st time that my gas has lasted over a week - so I think maybe the leaking bubble counter was the problem. The guage has not shown much gas usage at all this week. Still having a problem with the bubble rate reducing during the day. I leave home with it pumping out 3 bps, but when I come home & check it out, it's down to 1 bps. Don't know why it does that, but guess I'll need to set it higher than I need, so that it adjusts down to what I want it to be.

I think I lose C02 due to surface water disturbance. I'm going to make a longer return water pipe (with PVC plumbing tube), so my water enters the tank at a deaper level. It won't be seen behind my wisteria, but think it might help

Ingo, I saw a free swimming fry during my water change yesterday, so will see have to see whether it shows up again. The increased wisteria (I've packed extra in since my last pictures) might help its chances.

When I put the first pics in this log, I complained I could see my yucky filter above the growth. Now it is nearly covered by my blue stricta. Before C02, it's highest leaf did not reach the filter & now the highest leaf is above the top of the filter - so I guess that is evidence my C02 is helping with growth. I'm happy with that.

Nearly lost my fry yesterday morning. I was about to leave for work, but lucky I was standing in front of the tank, when a greedy platy jumped into the floating fry container - which had no lid. I quickly scooped her out & found a lid for the container, so she couldn't do it again. That really surprised me. Think it was because I'd thinned out the java moss in the container & the fry are now more visible to the community.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Your ongoing problems with the bubble count confuse me. Let me see if I remember that right: you do not have a solenoid and turn the CO2 on and off manually, right? I think we talked about leaving the needle valve alone and you turned to only shut off the bottle n itself. If that is the case then you are truely doing all you can, but the needle valve seems to be to sensitive to handle the pressure onslaught when CO2 is opened. Over the day it adjusts and reduces the flow by evening. I had something like this on my setup as well (well, similar) as the initial tinkering with the needle valve gave me a good flow, but the next day, after the solenoid shut it off and back on, the flow had changed. After a few weeks/months I got the handle of it and now the flow is consistent, mostly because I am very familiar with the personallity of my needle valve. If you turn the flow up clock-wise the flow rate is different (after night down time) than if I would have achieved the same bubble count when turned counter-clockwise. I hope this was rather clear, I don't want to confuse you too much .

Great to hear that you are satisfied with your growth

You say you saw a fry. Of what fish? How does it look like?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

you do not have a solenoid and turn the CO2 on and off manually, right? I think we talked about leaving the needle valve alone and you turned to only shut off the bottle n itself.

That's right, but it doesn't seem to work for me if I turn off at the bottle itself, leaving the valve alone. For some reason, if I do that, when I turn the bottle itself on, C02 pumps through at an explosive rate. I'm sure this is what caused the top of my bubble counter to pop & spring a leak. So I have to turn off the valve as well. I think it will just be a matter of getting to know my valve really well - harder, 'cause I don't have a dial for this (I only have one dial - gas bottle empty indicator, don't have one for the flow rate). I turned it on this morning, came back 10 mins later & increased it again (as it has slowed) & again just before I left, I re-adjusted it to faster than I need & hope it will level out to where I want it to be during the day. I'd hoped that when I eventually get the solenoid, this wouldn't happen - but if I read your post right, you had to "get to know your valve" even with a solenoid. Oh well, it gives me something to fiddle with.

The fry was a platy & smaller than the ones I have in my breeder. If it is the one that escaped the other week, it's smallness might be explained by my breeding trap fry being regularly fed & that poor free swiming fry finding little food, having to hide all day. Otherwise, it could be new fry. Quite possible, as my platy are always pregnant. At the moment I have one very pregnant mollie and platy. I've often seen fry in my tank, but they usually disappear after a day or two. Fingers crossed this time round.

I would have like it to be a harley, but no sign of any action there.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Yeah, it could be that turning the main valve of the CO2 bottle on and off causes a burst of gas, not good .
Can you by any chance make a picture of the reactor, just so I can invision your setup better?

About the fry: Yeah, harlies would have been nice. And don't you worry about your platy and molly fry, at sme point their population will explode, I promise

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have pics of the C02 set up, but first, I have one showing my blue stricta (if that's what it's called) with a leaf growing above the filter motor. Ignore the wisteria - it's new, but the plant behind it. Here's the shot. If you were to scroll back in my log to 5 April, you'd see that same plant not even reaching the bottom on the filter motor. So, I'm happy with that growth.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here is a shot of the top of my gas bottle, showing the single dial regulator.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's the bubble counter

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's a shot of part of the filter media containers. The white silicone tubing is the C02 line & the black tubing coming out of the end of the spray bar is the water that pumps into the reactor. At the far right of the pic, you can see both tubes entering into the tank itself.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's the water return pipe, through which both tubes pass. Note the surface water disturbance. I'm going to try to make an extension for the water return pipe, so the water is released deeper in the tank.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

I just couldn't get a clear shot of the reactor itself in the tank, so I took a pic of the box, which shows the type. You can tell from the previous shot, showing the tubing coming into the tank through the water return pipe, that the reactor is situated a little below & to the back of the return water pipe.

So, now you more or less can see my C02 is set up.

Happily, today when I got home my bubble count was around 3 bps, which is what I've been aiming for.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Wow Robyn,

That for sure was very informative.

I have never seen a setup like this, with all these things involved. I really struggeled to understand where the spray bar comes into play.

The one question I would have now is: Even if you get a solenoid, where will it go?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Afterthought

Robyn, I am still hung up on the spray bar. What is it doing over the filter? Is that how "clean" water re-enters the tank? That would be bad, much worse than any surface agitation that you may have. In this case the exposure of CO2 to the air is tremendous and loads will dissipate into the air, IMHO.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo

The one question I would have now is: Even if you get a solenoid, where will it go?

Here's a full shot of my gas bottle with the regulator attached. You see under the brass of the regulator, there is a black piece over which the C02 tubing fits. LFS tell me that the black piece is removed & the solenoid slots into place there. Then the C02 tube connects to the solenoid instead. It's lucky for me that it works like that. Don't know if I already told this story, but hubbie dropped the regulator & that little black piece snapped right off. LFS told us that Dupla do not make that as a spare part, but as LFS routinely removes that when customers buy the regulator & solenoid as a set, they had a few spares lying around in a drawer. So they were able to give me one.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn, I am still hung up on the spray bar. What is it doing over the filter? Is that how "clean" water re-enters the tank? That would be bad, much worse than any surface agitation that you may have.

The spray bar sits on top of 3 separate filter compartment boxes and all along it's length there are holes for dirty water to come out of the spray bar. In each compartment box, the dirty water drains down through the first filter layer (which you could see in the pic) & it is a black sponge. Underneath that it then passes through filter wool & underneath that again is my matrix. After the now clean water passes through these 3 levels of filter media it travels underneath the media (but still in the filter area) to join the filter return pipe that I show. So the water coming out of the spray bar is not returning to the tank unfiltered, as at that point, it hasn't really even started the filtering process. The spray bar is the way of getting the dirty water into the filter media boxes to be cleaned. I hope my waffle makes sense.

The C02 tubing lays atop the filter compartment box for convenience, to get it into the tank. My filter compartment box doesn't have too many openings for cords etc to pass in neatly and it seemed the best way to get the C02 tube into the tank, was to let it share the same space & openings as water inlet pipe. Whilst the dirty water is trapped in the filter compartment boxes & forced through the media before making it the 4th empty compartment, where the return water pipe is, the C02 tubing passes over the top of each compartment, over the 4th compartment barrier, which is empty except for the now clean water & enters the return inlet pipe, into the tank & into the reactor.

The part that has always slightly bothered me about the setup, which is the way LFS told my hubbie to do it, is the next part of the explanation. My reactor has one join for the C02 tubing (the white tube) and another join for water (the black tube) as water must be pumped through into the reactor. Now, LFS had my tank in stock & said the best way to do this was to drill a hole in the extreme end of the spray bar, just big enough for the black tubing to enter in a little way. It means that water that makes it to the end of my spray bar (without being released into the filter media compartment boxes via the spray bar holes along the way) enters the black tube & goes into the reactor. So the part that bothered me is that a small part of my water does enter the tank unfiltered via the C02 reactor.

My filter turns over 2,000 L.per hour (or 528 US gals per hour) and my tank is 43.5G. The manufactures have told me my filter is a bit of an overkill for the job (I spoke to them on another issue to do with the filter) so I hope that this high turnover means that sufficient water does pass down through the filter media & return clean to the tank & it's only a small part of the water that doesn't pass through the various filtering layers & returns unfiltered to the C02 reactor. Perhaps I should speak to my tank's manufacturer & ask what impact this modification has on my biological filtering system. I know filtering still seems to be pretty efficient, as I see the colour of my filter wool at water change time & maintenance time.

BTW, that brings me to another question. Do you use filter wool & if so, how often do you change it.

You might recall my concerns over my gravel & the pH. Well my investigations indicate I don't have anything to worry about. I'm told the gravel is inert, does not contain either coral or coal and will not effect anything. It also passed the vinegar test I did, so that query is out of the way.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Thanks for the detailed explanation on where the solenoid would go. If I see that right then all parts of the regulator are before the solenoid, including the needle valve. In my setup this valve is after the solenoid and as such pressureless when turned off. This means that in the mornings (for my setup) when the solenoid opens a stream of as hits the needle valve and may change its position slightly, which in turn could create a different bubble rate than the day before. In your case, having the needle valve constantly under pressure should actually be better, I guess.

About your filter, spray bar, CO2 setup: How hard would it be for you to get a glass diffuser? This would save you so much complexity on this setup. Your CO2 would be completely independent from the filter, just plug the CO2 tube into the diffuser and hang the whole thing in the tank, all done.

In any way, your filter bothers me . The reason to avoid surface agitation in a planted CO2 tank is to limit the gas exchange, in particular to limit the chance for the CO2 to easily escape. Your filter seems to do the opposite. Around 12 times per hour does the entire tank water pass through the spray water and is trickled onto the filter in small streams, huge surface - major exposure. At least theoretically this should mean that you lose loads of CO2. I wonder what others have to say about this.

I have no filter wool, I don't even know what it looks like. My small non-CO2 tanks are running on sponges (2 each) only, the canister of the 125G has a coarse filter pad (maybe the equivalent of floss), followed by a mechanical filter material (1l Ehfimech), a biological filter material (4l Ehfisubstrat), and a fine pad, and that is it.

Good to hear that we don't have to worry about your substrate ,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Glass Diffusers aren't available in Australia at all. But Paulus, who is visiting US on holidays, said he would pick one up & post it to me. So provided no breakages, I'll have to ask how to set the diffuser up. It will only cost me $13, whereas the reactor cost $99.95. I'll also need to replace the spray bar, or at least but a new end cap for it, to fill in the hole drilled in the end.

Re: the flow of my filter. At one point I rang the manufacturer because the flow is so strong where it re-enters the tank & the force was pounding down on a plant which it killed (it was a fragile plant. I have a Java Fern there now, and it's doing just fine.) They appeared to expect my comment & openly said the filter was an overkill. They sent me a free replacement impeller, that will decrease the turnover. I have the part but haven't done anything with it. I'm not a handy person & I don't know how to change it over (came with no instruction), plus I thought over filtering was better than under filtering.

So do you think I need to do something about. Any opinions on that would be appreciated.

Re the filter wool & filter sponges - they're probably much the same thing. Filter wool can be bought in bulk sheets & cut to the size of your filter container (it is my white sponge) & then I also have a black sponge on top of that. Under both sponges is the matrix (the biological filter media). Just wondered how often you change the sponges.

Cheers
TW

I'll have to ask how to set the diffuser up.

That is really easy, as long as you find a spot in the tank under the filter for it so that the rising bubbles can be washed into the current and as such throughout the tank. If you haven't seen it already, I have pictures of the setup in crazyred's log in this forum.

plus I thought over filtering was better than under filtering.

No doubt this is right, and I am not even suggesting your filter is overkill. I don't know how much media you have available in this filter (in volume), but I have my smaller tanks all running on at least 10 times the tank volume per hour. The smaller the medium compartment of a filter is the more often it should turn over the tank water.

I'm not a handy person & I don't know how to change it over

I would assume that sooner or later you will have to do something about the impeller, maybe not add the new one but at least clean the existing one. Your filter in itself also didn't come with instructions? Maybe you can find them online. Impellers and their housing will collect gunk and should be cleaned every few months.

So do you think I need to do something about. Any opinions on that would be appreciated.

As I said above, the flow rate does not bother me at all, except if it would kill your plants and make your fish having to fight the current all the time while they naturally would prefer stiller waters (some fish do come from lake or slow flowing environments). My concern here is only the loss of CO2.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Your filter in itself also didn't come with instructions?

The tank is one of those that comes as a complete kit & it did come with an instruction book, but it says "impeller should be cleaned every 3 months" but it does not give any clue as to how you do that. Every water change, I take off the Uplift & strainer, as well as the spray bar & clean those. It is time that I did clean the impeller, as the tank has now been set up since January. I'll have to ring them or better yet, I'll ask LFS if they can show me how.

The smaller the medium compartment of a filter is the more often it should turn over the tank water.

My medium compartment box is 26.5" long X 6" wide X 4" deep.

the flow rate does not bother me at all, except if it would kill your plants and make your fish having to fight the current all the time while they naturally would prefer stiller waters

The flow in the tank itself seems fine - doesn't seem to cause a current issue, it's just that the water pounds down into the tank, where it re-enters. Fish actually seem to like playing in it. Now that I have a Java fern there, no issues with plant kill. I'd like water to enter at a deeper level. Unless it's a problem for my C02, I'd rather over filter than under filter. Thanks again for the comments Ingo.

Cheers
TW

Forget to tell my news about new platy fry. It had been well over a month since this little girl last had her babies and she was very, very pregnant. So, I moved my mollie fry into the same container as my platy fry & thought I'd see how she'd go in the breeding trap the mollie fry had been in. On Friday morning, I popped her in, added some free floating java moss. She was quiet, but didn't seem too upset. She ate when fed. I was very lucky. We went out to tea on Saturday night & when I came home there were so many little platy's in that breeder, that I can't count them. I have no more room for breading traps, so won't be try this again until these little ones grow big enough to move on elsewhere - either to my son (who I'm trying to talk into getting a tank so I can keep some of these) or to a friend I've promised some, or to LFS. The LFS where I get my C02 said I'll get store credit - but I wouldn't expect much as he only sells them for $4.95.

Cheers
TW

As I have low lights, I don't have much in the way of variety in the tank. It is a bit of a jungle in there, the wisteria is really growing. It has reached the top, bent over itself and shading over my rocks & the java moss there. Holding off trimming it, as when I have another tank ready, I want to use the trimmings from this tank & see how I go doing that. Here are some pics of my jungle.



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

here's a close up of the same



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's a pic of the same area on 19.04.06. You can see how much it's grown.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW