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L# Freshwater Aquaria
 L# Planted Aquaria
  L# TW's 43.5G Log
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Wingsdlc
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Personaly would rather have submersed growth so the plant doesn't have to change over. Though I have heard some plants do not ship as well this way. Just my two cents.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 03:02Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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The plant in the link is Blyxa Japonica. Just the pic from tropica is what the plant would look like in about 6 inches of water !

Don't hold out much hope of red from the Coffeefolia. The stems are red but are hard to see under the leaves. The new leaves have a yellowish/brown color as they emerge but they change to dark green in a couple of days. Beautilful plant but it doen't produce a lot of leaves.

For an easy red plant try Altherena Reineckii "Scarlet Temple" easy plant will stay red even when the light not so good.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 04:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Thanks Wings & Bensaf

Well, I have given up on coffeefolia anyway, as tropica said it grew quite high (15-25cm).

I looked up http://www.aquariumproductswholesale.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=861and it looks good.

I guess it's not worth trying Ludwigia inclinata http://www.aquariumproductswholesale.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=854 What do you think - no chance in 1.6wpg?

EDIT: I may not have red plants, buy I'm really happy with my rasboras these days. They have have coloured up a really nice bright red, so I hope that means they're happy in there. Here's a pic - I know, I know, they're fuzzy - but they're red too Pic doesn't capture they're full beauty as in real life they have such brightness, are much redder, and are really lovely to watch the small school of red crossing too & fro

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 10:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
DeletedPosted 20-Jul-2006 13:38
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TW
 
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Antoher question - I have some in my previous post too.

Is there a difference between chain sword & pygmy chain sword. There is something described as chin sword for sale on ebay - says it gorws to 7-9cm in height. Does pygmy stay smaller than that, or are they the same plant.

Also, if I were to try hair grass, how do you trim this without making a gastly mess it the tank. Is there a trick to it. I can only imagine that I will a lot of trimmings floating around. I the float (ie rise to the top, I guess I can scoop them out with a net - but I can't think of another way to do it)

Any thoughts?

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 02:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Sorry, I'm bombarding here with questions. Thinking of putting the 4ft tank on hold, & instead trying to upgrade the lighting on the current tank. I don't know if I will go ahead with this plan, as it might look a bit odd, but here goes.

I will remove the front section of my hood altogether, leaving still insitu the existing trickle filter that runs atop the whole back length of my tank - that is the bit that will look odd. Then order a new 24" pc light unit that holds 2 x 55watts, each on a sep. power cord. This will give me the following lighting options:-

when 1 light is on, I will have 1.26wpg
when 2 lights are on, I will have 2.53wpg

I have compared this to what I was told would be a good configuration if I did the 4ft tank & the wpg work out almost the same. The only difference is, this tank is a deeper tank. My 43.5G tank is just around 23.5inches - so the light has to penetrate a further 3.5inches than it would have on a 4ft tank (I think it was 20inches - but maybe only 18inches. If 18inches, then an even greater difference in depth to penetrate.)

I am even confusing myself with this waffle (although in my head it is picture clear - just can't transfer it to words).

Do you think that it is worthwhile me buying this light for this tank. My goal for doing this will be so I am less limited in plant choices (although we have less here than US anyway) and so I can throw in some red plants. Will the light be sufficent for my goal.

Thank you

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 09:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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A few further changes were made at water change time. The larger leaved blue stricta was replaced with the thinner leaved version. The hygro was removed, trimmed & replaced. My large fern wood was raised (by sitting on top of another piece of driftwood) so that you can see creeping wisteria, then wood, then the fern, & then the stem plants behind. To the right hand side, I took out the previous week's piece of wood & replaced it with 3 new thinner pieces. Also thinned out the java fern & only put back the fern with smaller leaves. I haven't been able to find narrow leave java, but if I ever find it - that's where it will go. The Blyxa never recovered from my replanting last week, so it's gone. But 6 new Blyxa have been ordered. I'm trialling some chain sword at the front. At the moment, the right hand side needs lots more ground plants & anubia nana for the wood - but these things will have to happen gradually. Plus I have to decide how I feel about the wood first.

Here is a full tank shot.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 26-Jul-2006 13:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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close up of the new wood & plant arrangement. The wood has been in there for 24hrs & some of it has darkened to match the other wood in the tank, while some hasn't. Hoping that as the wood absorbs more water, it will all turn darker - as in different parts, the same piece of wood can be darker or lighter. Also, imagine that eventually all the substrate will be planted with low plants (chain sword & blyxa,ricca on rocks - with hair nets of course).

Something else in this tank is bothering me. I've mentioned previously that my water from tap is around 2 or 3kH at most. This tank previously tested 3kH, then 5kH, but one day last week it tested 7kH, so something in there is raising kH. Now all my rocks are out - I'm only left wondering if it is my gravel. I remember a LFS telling me that black gravel can effect my pH & I did the vinegar test on it & checked with where I bought it. Vinegar gave no reaction & LFS of purchase told me it's inert, but with no other rock in there - what else can be causing the kH to go up, if not the gravel. I'm going to watch this & I'm starting to consider whether I should pull the tank apart & replace the soil with either Eco or ADA. I'm hesitant to use the ADA, cause how do I tell my C02 level if my ADA soil is altering the pH? But Amano uses it, so it must be ok. Guess I'd just have to go with counting bps. I do like the ADA in my non C02 tanks, but would C02 bring the pH down even further.

I wonder whether anyone on this forum uses ADA & C02 togehter & what experiences they've had with the pH and if it drops too low.

ADA & Eco Complete would cost me around the same - although I think I've bugged an on line supplier enough that he's thinking of getting the Eco & he said he'd do it cheaper if he does.

Still I'm not rushing into the decision to change the substrate - but I don't like the kH altering on me - so I'll continue to think about it a bit longer.

Also, in an earlier post I asked a question about an idea of changing the lights. Wonder if I'm on the right track with what I'm thinking of getting.

Thanks.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 26-Jul-2006 14:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Robyn,

I think that the new wood looks very nice, although I am sure you will still tinker with its exact positioning and such. Also, the area of the wood is now either too empty or too full. With that, I mean that is is too open to stand its ground compared to the left side, but not open enough to be considered a truely open space.

About the light question: is that the one where 2 lights would give you 2.53wpg? That sounds good, is for sure not too much, but will maybe limit you on some plants that need really high light. 2x65W, if available, are an option as well. And - given that that can be fired individually, it is just a question of how long to have both on at the same time.

Hope this helps a little,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jul-2006 14:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Hi Ingo, maybe next week I'll remove a piece of wood, although I wanted lots to help bring my pH down a little. When C02 is off, this tank can creep all the way up to around 8pH.

I really can't (or at least I can't yet) cope with this side being completely open & can't think how I could make it work that way. By that I mean I don't think I have the skill to gradually have the stems sloping down to the open space. Or is the idea that the last stem still remains high - but tucked behind the larger ferned wood & then suddenly all becomes low beyond?

In the meantime until or if I'm able to go low completely, I'm just playing around with how it might look with branchy wood & low grassy plants. Who knows how this side will end up - I certainly don't

My tank is an awkward length & as usual, my complaint is we don't have a full range of possibilities open to us over here. There doesn't seem to be a compact light the length to fit my tank. My tank is 32inches, but the 30inch fittings I've found only take fluorescents. To get a PC, the biggest (that is not too big) is 24inches & it only comes in a 2 x 55watt combo. Although I didn't actually ask if it will accept any larger watt, the impression I got when speaking to the sales staff was that this is only available in that wattage & that there's no other suitable choice - although I will ask more questions. I will make sure whatever I end up with, will be able to be fired separately.

Thanks for comments.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 26-Jul-2006 15:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Robyn,

Sorry about me being so forgetful, I guess I am getting old. I never seem to remember all the light issues that you folks have going on down under, maybe it is because it is almost uncomprehensable (sp) over here that you cannot pick from at least 5 providers to get exactly what you need.

Open side of tank: Have you seen my 29G log lately? If you compare the left and middle section of your tank to mine, they are almost identical. You be the judge ...


Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Jul-2006 10:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Re: the lack of availability. It's a catch 22. I keep getting told they're not available here 'cause there's no demand for them - but if they're not in the shops on display & being promoted in the 1st place, how can they expect the public to demand them.

Somehow, I don't seem to have your 29G log on my active list. Hmmmm, I'll go looking for it now.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 27-Jul-2006 13:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Yes, I see what you mean & your 29G tank looks really nice that way. I see 2 problems that may prevent low plants that require medium/high light working in the very rear of my tank:-

1. My wet/dry trickle filter sits atop my tank, at the rear. It runs the whole length of the tank & is 6inches wide. No direct light hits the back 6 inches of tank. My rear stem plants always bend forward, to reach the light. So I don't know if pygmy chain sword or Blyxa would be able to grow at the back.

2. My water return & C02 reactor would be exposed & ugly. blah blah blah, I know I've said that before.

Despite that, if I go ahead & get a new light, I might try the dwarf chain sword along the back & see if it will grow. Don't think it would be worth trying until I at least have new lights though.

Stage 2 of my tank upgrade would be to replace the existing filter with a cannister filter - but that is even further down the track. Cash flow prevents that right now.

I think it will be a while before I get this to a point where the right hand side is ok.

My otos like the new wood though

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 27-Jul-2006 14:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Robyn,

With the last 6 inches getting no light, do you mean all the way to the bottom of the tank? That would be aweful. Chain Swords don't grow tall and if you move your light further to the front maybe enough will reach the lower back parts for your plants to grow.

No money for a filter? You better start winning some of the marathons you run, the price money should pay for one

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Jul-2006 02:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Well I suppose it gets some light, because I can still see there. But above that back 6inch wide block, running the length of the tank is the black bottom of the filter which sits on top & must to an extent, shade the plants underneath. Maybe if/when I get a new light & change the hood, I'll make sure there are good reflectors in the light to help this out.

When I win all the marathons (yeah, right) I'll put the prize money to a new eheim cannister filter, make the tank top all glass - problem solved.

Anyway, by moving a freestanding light fitting to the front, I will get more light at the back? I'll try that too (when/if I get light).

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Jul-2006 09:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Anyway, by moving a freestanding light fitting to the front, I will get more light at the back? I'll try that too (when/if I get light).
What? You mean another light, further to the front, but still on top of the tank, right? That may work too, but it is a longer way from front top to bottom back than it would be straight down, I also believe it would make plants grow forwards (towards the light, if they can).

I think the best thing would be a different filter. Do you guys have the Hagen AquaClear HOBs available? I am sure that the 110 would be more than what you need. On the other hand, this would still be a problem with some surface agitation and CO2.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Jul-2006 13:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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you move your light further to the front maybe enough will reach the lower back parts for your plants to grow
No, I was referring to this quote from your earlier reply. I thought that you meant that when/if I get my new light, if I push it to the front, somehow more light reflected to the back. I have obviously not understood what you mean. I can be a bit slow at times.

I think we have those, but I would like to go the cannister route. I'm hoping next year when my daughter leaves school, I can get that eiheim filter & change completely to a glass top.

If I get the new light, my hood - which takes up 3/4 of the tank top space, will be replaced with glass. I rang the light manufacturer today (LFS gave me his number). I found it hard to understand why they make a 30inch in fluro only & the compact in 24 & 36inch. I hoped it was an error, but it seems I will have to get a 24inch fitting to go on my 32inch tank if I want compact, but still faced with the problem that the stand for the light is made to fit over the edges of the tank (it won't sit flat on tank glass top). I'm to ring the boss back on Monday to see if there is any solution. If not, will have to search out the hardware store. I don't really want to risk putting a strong light directly on my glass, as it may get hot. The ones here do not have the fans that I've heard you mention yours have.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Jul-2006 15:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I'm hoping next year when my daughter leaves school, I can get that eiheim filter & change completely to a glass top.
Why - are you going to sell off all her stuff that she will leave behind

I think you understood the light thing just fine, moving it forward is what I had in mind. It was me who didn't get it when I asked about an extra light even further to the front.

I have no doubt that it would be possible to rig something onto a light fixture to make it be elevated over a tank glass. Maybe we should get Matty on the case

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Jul-2006 15:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Why - are you going to sell off all her stuff that she will leave behind
I hope that she will not be going anywhere soon, but NO MORE SCHOOL FEES. YAY YIPEEE YAHOO. University fees can be hexed (means deferred & later when she is a wage earner, paid back out of her salary bit by bit (deducted like tax is).

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 29-Jul-2006 02:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
A week or so ago I bought a 6 pack of Blyxa Japonica on ebay & it hasn't turned up yet - so I emailed the seller to see if it had gone astray. He told me shipment was delayed, but has been sent now & to make up for the delay he's added some extra Blyxa, lily grass + banana lily to compensate for this late shipment.

Does anyone have experience with lily grass or banana lily, or know what light requirements they need.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 13:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Robyn,

First of all, it is always nice to get a freebee
Secondly, rarely are they any good, either because they are not prime plants within the species, or they are cheaper plants

I don't know what the Lily Grass would be, but the Banana Lily seems to be the Banana Plant, Nymphoides aquatica as can be seen here. Overall, pretty ok, but not my favorite, albeit I never had it.

I would say, if it comes for free and you have a spot for it, then use it.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 14:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Robyn,

The banana plants are fun plants. Not very demanding you just plop them in and they kinda get moved around by the current and fish. They will grow long leaves that will go to the surface and then open like a little lilly pad. If it is in fact the plant the Ingo refers to.

BTW - I might have missed something, but what wattage are you growing the Blyxa in?

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 16:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Thanks Ingo & Tetratech for the replies. So does that mean the banana plant is not a foreground plant?
BTW - I might have missed something, but what wattage are you growing the Blyxa in?
This answer is longer than it should be, as I'm playing around with a conversion idea. Currently, I'm only running 1.63wpg. I have a 2 stage conversion plan.
Stage 1.
a. Remove front section of hood altogether & replace with a glass lid.
b. leave insitu existing trickle filter that runs atop whole back length of my tank - This will will look odd - I know.
c. Order 24" pc light unit that holds 2 x 55watts, each on a sep. power cord.

Maths is far from my strong point, but I think this change will give me:
when 1 light is on, I will have 1.26wpg
when 2 lights are on, I will have 2.53wpg

Tank is around 23.5inches deep & 32inches long – will this light be enough?

Why don't I get a 30inch fitting you ask? Because that is only avaiable as a fluro light fitting. Why don't I get 65watt lights you ask? Cause we have a lousy range & that's what I'm stuck with.

Ingo, the stand for the light problem is solved (spoke to manufacturer, who said he will cut off the overlap part of stand that needed to fit over side of tank, so that it is able to sit on a flat top, eg glass lid).

He has also given me the option of paying the price of a 36" light fitting, that he would cut back to fit a 32"tank. I thought this sounded good, until he said that it would still only contain the 2 x 55w tubes & I would be paying $100 more. So, now I have to decide if I'm willing to pay $100, just so the fitting fits the tank (I read your comments Tetratech in your log where you say you think it looks better if it fits) but $100 is a lot more to pay & that $100 could go towards me completing stage 2 sooner rather than later.

Stage 2
a. replace existing trickle filter with a cannister filter & buy extra glass top to fill the space previously filled by the trick filter.

I can't decide what to do. I am the sort that often prefers to wait & do nothing, until I can afford the right choice. The last thing I want to do is spend the money on the light, only to be not happy with the look.

Tetratech, does it bother you a lot that your light doesn't run the whole length of the tank? What would you do? Would you spend the $100 extra, to make the light casing longer, even though you get no more wpg for your money?

I'm not sure which path to take here.

All comments would be appreciated.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 01:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Tetratech, does it bother you a lot that your light doesn't run the whole length of the tank? What would you do? Would you spend the $100 extra, to make the light casing longer, even though you get no more wpg for your money?


Do you mean from an aesthetic point of view or a functional one. From an aesthetic point of view it would probably look alittle better if it went all the way across and once on those arms tha lift it about 1.5 inches, but it's on little rubber feet and it doesn't really look bad. The other options are too hang it from the ceiling. I know coralife for example does make a cable specifically made for my light. I am also toying around with putting a canopy on my tank that would cover the light. If I do that my light being shorter than the tank would make taking the canopy off and on much easier.

From a functional point of view it doesn't affect me, but I also don't have highlight plants on my corners, but I really don't see much shading on the corners, looks like the spread is pretty good.

Bottom line is, you won't have much of a problem either way so it's really up to you. There would be plenty of ways to scape the tank if you went with the shorter light and corner shading became an issue, but $100 is a personal thing so I would go with your first instinct and not too crazy over it.

Hope I didn't confuse you more

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 02:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Thanks Tetratech

Yeah, I'm meaning from an aesthetic point of view, because either way I'm stuck with the wpg given by the new fitting (2 x 55W). The light will be on arms that raise it, not rubber legs.

I'm reading between the lines of your post & guessing that the length issue does aesthetically bother you, or else you wouldn't be considering those other options (hood or hanging from ceiling).

I'm not bothered too much about the edges of tank, I'll keep lower light plants in those sections.
when 1 light is on, I will have 1.26wpg
when 2 lights are on, I will have 2.53wpg
Depth of tank: 23.5inches
Is the new wattage I'll get worthwhile making the changes. Will it let me grow the highlight plants that I'd like to try?

Thanks

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 02:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I'm reading between the lines of your post & guessing that the length issue does aesthetically bother you, or else you wouldn't be considering those other options (hood or hanging from ceiling).

That's pretty good Robyn, it bothers me to the point that it would probably look alittle better, but it still looks good (I'm also very particular with these things. As you might know I purposely put a black background, black intake and black heater on my tank so they wouldn't stand out.

Anyway as far as the lighting, you would have pretty much my lighting WPG 1.3 and 2.7, but your tank is smaller and deeper so it wouldn't be as intense. Let's put it this way 2.5 is much better than 1.6 and it would allow you to grow alot more plants than you are growing now. Would it allow high light plants, probably some, not all, but it's definitely worth the move up IMO.


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 03:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Thanks Tetratech

I'll have a think now about what I want to do.

Now, plants have arrived & I can't figure out how you are supposed to plant these banana plants.

Here's a pic of the 1st one. Are the long thin things the roots that I plant - but they seem to be pointed the same direction as the the stem & leaf? What to do?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
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Here's the 2nd one. Do I put all those lower long green stems in the substrate. Are they the roots? I'm confused?


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 12:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The "Bananas' are actually the roots and you could push them into the substrate. I've had those in the past and never really planted them I just put them in and they kinda sunk to the bottom, but that was before I was into planted aquaria. When the leaves get big and head to the surface the plant used to rise up from the buoyancy. Think of them as a small pond lilly, the leaves will head for the surface and open up like a pond lilly. It's not a full plant it throws of long thin leaves that uncurl at the surface. I believe it's more of a pond plant, but there actually fun to have in aquariums.

My Scapes
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Those "bananas" are long - can I trim them before planting them?

Cheers
TW
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Hi,
Banana plants are "neat" and draw their name from the
banana looking tubes that sprout roots. The green tubes
are NOT the roots. If you plant that plant so the green
tubes are buried in the gravel the plant will die.
The "bananas" are actually the equivalent of a camel's
hump. They are the storage sites for the plants nutrients.
The correct way to plant them is to set the plant so
the bananas are in contact with the gravel, and white
roots will grow out of the base of the bananas into the
gravel and anchor the plant.

For the "odd shaped" one, I would suggest that you use
line and somthing to anchor the plant so that the
bananas are in contact with the gravel. The plant will
naturally turn the leaves upward to the light over time.

Frank


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The green tubes are NOT the roots.

Well I guess that is based on ones interpetion of what a root is. The bananas are put of the plants root system (root tubercle) and can be partially buried in the substrate to anchor them down.

As I said the "bananas" could be pushed into the substrate I didn't say "buried". It's similiar to a potato. A potato is a root, but it also grows smaller roots below it.

My Scapes
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Those are some unusual looking banana plants, never seen bananas that long. Usually they're shorter and fuller. It'll be interesting to see how they grow in and adjust...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 17:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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hi robyn,

just had a brief read through your log - you are so much more 'into' the whole planted thing than i am! - i have a 6 foot main tank, fully planted with various swords, including amazon and ozelot, and green tiger lotus. i fertilise with sera florena tabs about once a month and do nothing else, aside from a heavy pruning every 2 months or so and a 40% water change once a week. i have two sets of lights, but they are just 'normal' aquarium bulbs, one lot on from 7am - 9pm, one lot from 11am - 2pm.

algae issues are solved by my faithful sturisoma panamense who eat pretty much all of it, and when i need to give the front glass a scrub, i do. my fish are beautiful and breed regularly (not the sturisoma - that would be TOO exciting!!!), and so while that's the case, i leave well enough alone.

my other small species tank is a 30-litre self-contained unit, planted with anubius and small swords and housing my lovely triple-red cacs, who have just bred for the first time - i only got them 3 weeks ago.

yes, i am in sydney - the inner west. my boyf and i have just moved back here after a year in melbourne. where do you do your fish-shopping? i'm a big fan of slippery little suckers and st george aquariums.

i put some info re: film canisters on ingo's thread. i am sure that they are fine regardless of which company they come from. you can easily glue them to a rock to anchor them and then plant and build around them, or just wedge them under driftwood etc - whatever takes your fancy. how many apisto's do you have?

regards,

justin
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Thanks Frank, tetratech & NowherMan6 for the banana plant advice. I wasn't around at all yesterday & didn't know what to do with them, so I have them free floating in some water. Now I know what to do, so thanks for that. I'm not sure if they really "fit" in my tank, but you all seem to say they are fun plants. If I follow you Frank, I just need to place them on the substrate & let them do their thing - may have to fiddle with the funny shaped one, as you say. NowherMan6, these were freebies to make up for a late delivered order, so that may explain why they are unusual looking.

Thanks Justin, I read all your comments - here & in Ingo's log too. Thanks for that. My apistos aren't in this log. They are in low tech tanks, here http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28750.6.htm?138# & here http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28921.2.htm?39# My camera & skills are poor, but you will find various pics of the apistos in the logs. In my 23.G (90L) tank I have a pair of Apistogramma Bitaeniata. I bought this pair from B & C Aquarium @ Matraville. The female recently had her 1st brood (2nd eggs, but first hatching). I only ever saw 5 of them free swimming & she is now continuing to guard her final survivor, who has been free swimming for just over 2 weeks now. In the 20G (75L) I have a pair of Cacateudies Triple Red. I got this pair from Auburn Aquarium. I've also bought other fish (not apisto) from from St George (I was there last night getting my C02 bottle filled). My complaint with St George though is that they are not open at all on Sundays & they close 6pm on Thursday nights too, which is a bummer. I have some endlers that came from SLS, as well I got my ADA soil for the 90L from there. BTW, while pricey, I think the ADA soil makes keeping Apistos easier - keeps the water at the right pH & kH, without having to bother with buffers. Nice to plant in too. I was going to get dehane pair from SLS too, but the Bitaeniata took it's place & I now have no room for the dehane. I'm from Menai, in the Sutherland Shire (near Cronulla, Miranda etc) so St George is not that far from me.

Your lighting set-up is another way I could go, but the compact fluro's mean that I'll get almost the same wattage as 4 x 30w, but without the bulk of 2 light fittings on the tank. I haven't ordered it yet, but I'm close. It will be a PC, with twin 55watt tubes - with twin power cords - so I can have 2 lighting sequences too. Currently I only have the lighting that comes with those Aqua-one aquarium kits - it's pretty low level.

Do you have pics of your tank/s you can share. I don't know what a sturisoma panamense is, but I will look them up now.

Thanks for the help with the film canisters. I was all set to go with them, with the little holes drilled in the ends & everything, when I bought the Bita from B & C. It was the guy there (Barry) who scared me off using them.

Thanks again.

Cheers
TW
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FRANK
 
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Hi Robyn,
Yes that will work. I was not trying to be critical of the
earlier post. It's just that so many of these plants are
killed off by well meaning folks. If you bury the bananas
too deeply they will turn to mush and the plant will die.
Many figure they are the roots when they actually arn't.
Once they are situated and left alone, long white roots
will grow from the base of the green banana into the
gravel.

I had best luck in growing them when I just put the tips
in the gravel. Of course the tanks currents raised heck
with the idea, so I figured a way to hold them down or
simply planted them in a "dead" corner.

Here is acouple of sites that will help:

http://www.aquahobby.com/garden/e_banana.php

and

http://www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Plant,%20Banana.htm

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 04-Aug-2006 01:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
jase101
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the thing to remember with banana lillies is that they are quick and opportunistic growers which will cut out light to your other plants - i absolutely love them, and used to have quite a beautiful set up of driftwood, anubius, and two banana lillies which completely covered the surface with leaves about 12 cm across. the fish in that tank (it had 30 rummies and 3 sturisoma panamense in it) LOVED it and never looked better. so in terms of aquascaping, the plant doesn't take up much space at all except on the surface, and the leaves settle where the current moves them to, not directly above where you plant the roots. so you can't really judge where the plant will end up providing cover. that's the only issue as far as lighting the rest of the tank. oh, they also have enormous root systems once established.

it might sound like quite a few negatives, but sitting on the floor and looking up at the surface of a tank covered in lily pads is pretty damn cool...

regards, justin
Post InfoPosted 04-Aug-2006 08:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Thanks Frank & Justin,

Somehow, I think these banana plants may not be for me, as my lighting is bad enough without all the the shading issues, but thank you both for the input.

Justin, just want to make sure you saw me reply to you on the previous page.

Cheers
TW
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jase101
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hi robyn, sure did see your reply - thanks for that. it is annoying that st george isn't open sundays - i don't have a car (for environmental reasons) so i found that out the hard way by catching a train out there one day from the inner west - not really so far, but an annoying waste of time when i could have been watching my fish!!

my lighting is a twin-bar, so 4 x 30 watt. no bulky lighting at all - just wide enough for my cat to sleep on most of the day. (don't worry - he is too well-fed to even look at the fish, let alone try to catch them).

what other fish do you keep? i'm in a bit of a dilemma at the mo - i bought two trios of flame gouramis as feature fish and they are nest-building and breeding, but they also pick at the new plant growth, which then grows up with tattered edges or holes in the middle - not happy jan. so they might go to another home and i'll find myself a new feature fish.

stock list:
40 harlequins
3 siamese fighter females,
5 kuhlis
3 yoyos
and the troublesome flames... decisions, decisions....

nice chatting, maybe see u at st george one day.

regards, justin
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
my lighting is a twin-bar, so 4 x 30 watt
As my tank is much shorter than 6ft (only 32inches wide) I don't think a fluro combination like that is available for me. For my tank, to have fluros with that wattage, I'd need 2 twin units, with each globe 30watts.

In this tank my stock is:-

8 harly rasboras
6 sterbai cory
4 rainbows
5 gold twin bar platys
2 guppys (who will probably go soon, 2 be replaced by 2 endlers
3 otos

In the 23.g I have:-

the 2 apistos
2 pencil fish
2 otos

In the 20g I have:-
2 apistos
2 endlers (to move to the 43.5G)
2 glow light rasboras
2 pencils (they may go & I may build up the rasboras)
2 otos

You must have been annoyed to turn up at St George that Sunday. Bummer.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 04-Aug-2006 09:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Justin,

Hey - you are right on my side of the Harlequin Lover spectrum (although I have Espei), but I guess you knew that.

Robyn, sorry that I did not participate in the Banana Plantation discussion, but I know too little about it.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 04-Aug-2006 14:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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That's fine Ingo - you are my main conributor to all other queries & I know you have many worries with work & your new apisots. I have put the banana plants in, but if they ever reach their potential of huge leaves, they will have to come out. While they are little, I give them a try & see. The funny shaped one has already sorted itself out a little - probably by trying to seek the light.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 05-Aug-2006 02:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Here are some shots after tonight's water change.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 09-Aug-2006 12:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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from another angle

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 09-Aug-2006 12:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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closeup of right hand side. This side is an experiment, full of several plants that probably won't make it in my low light.

I have blyxa, chain sword, lily grass & some sort of red plant (I don't know the name) - so I'll see how long they last.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 09-Aug-2006 13:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Your tank is looking pretty sharp. The large chunk of DW seems to give your tank some depth as you have plants sourounding it as ground cover.

How many fish do you have in there?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Hi Wings, thanks.

I have:-
2 male Endlers
5 gold twin bar Platys (2M / 3F)
7 Harlequin Rasboras
6 sterbai cory
3 otos (not sure if they are all still there - usually only see 2 at a time)
4 Boesemani Rainbowfish (2 M & 2F)

The rainbows were originally to be moved into my empty 4ft tank, but for the moment, I'm banned from setting up that tank. Luckily at the moment, the rainbows are only small. Don't know what I'll do about them as they grow bigger, but they're ok for now. Hubby bought them for me as a gift.

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
I added some some riccia covered rocks at today's water change. It's not as nice as I thought it would look though. The rocks aren't well enough covered, but hopefully time will correct that. It's also a much lighter colour than I expected. I thought there would be a strong colour contrast between the lighter wisteria & the darker riccia, but they are practically the same colour.

First pic is a full shot. Why is my ricca so pale in colour?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
A close up, showing the partly covered rocks. You can see here just how light it is. Is it a trick of tetratech's camera that his riccia looks so dark in comparison to mine?

A platy is zooming in to try munching on the riccia. I've noticed that they are enjoying trying to pull the riccia out through the netting holding it in place.

Attached Image:


Cheers
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
This is just in case Rick checks in. You asked for pics of the riccia hair net preparation.

This pic shows the riccia sitting on top of the rock. The hair net is shown, just waiting to be used to secure the riccia. Just keep wrapping net over itself, until it holds.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 15:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
You can see here just how light it is. Is it a trick of tetratech's camera that his riccia looks so dark in comparison to mine?

No camera tricks Robyn , although my main group probably shades the foreground ricica more than the wisteria, but the biggest factor here IMO is hardscape. If you look at my tank not including the new riccia rocks almost all of the riccia is separated from the other plants by rock. The rock creates the constrast. and you could enjoy the different texture and shape of the riccia. If the majority of your riccia is simply sitting next to the wisteria than it probably won't show as much. You need to incorporate levels and/or rock to give it depth and interest. Congratulations, you've taken the next step in the wonderful world of aquascaping.

My Scapes
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Robyn,

Your great!! I like seeing how people put things together in thank as much as how the tank looks in the end!

The ricca looks good and so does the tank. Everything looks very healthy. /:'

Rick
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Thanks tetratech & Rick

It lacks something. The riccia didn't create the contrast I'm looking for & tetratech has hit it on the head.

I need to have more of a distinct separation between the wisteria & the riccia. I need bigger rocks - but not too big - & with interesting shapes. They need to be big enough to create different levels, but not taking away that I want that part of the tank to remain on the low side (except for the wood on the far right). For the moment I can't find such rocks & I won't do anything until I find just the right rocks.

If I had time, engergy & somewhere to put fish & keep filter running in the meantime, I'd also change the gravel to Eco Complete. The gravel is meant to be black, but looks more like grey to me. IMO black would give me a better look than currently in the tank.

Thanks for the input.

Cheers
TW
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If I had time, engergy & somewhere to put fish & keep filter running in the meantime, I'd also change the gravel to Eco Complete
I hear you

Exactly my thoughts for the 125G, but I would need an even bigger container. So - who is in this tank now? I could imagine that a bigger plastic bin would be big enough for you to actually house the fishies during a Little_Fish style overhaul

Ingo


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Rubbermaids are the greatest for such things. I use them all the time for fish stuff. When I moved my tanks it was my saving grace. Now when I do plant trimming I use the cover on a TV food tray as my work bench.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 25-Aug-2006 13:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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So - who is in this tank now?
2 male Endlers
5 gold twin bar Platys (2M / 3F)
7 Harlequin Rasbora
6 sterbai cory
3 otos (not sure if they are all still there - usually only see 2 at a time)
4 Boesemani Rainbow fish (2 M & 2F)

Hi Ingo & Wings,

I have 2 x 31G containers on wheels that I use at my water change time, so I could put the fish in those. (That's what I used when I wrecked another tank by adding the ADA soil without emptying - do you remember Ingo?) Not sure if the trickle filter would sit on top ok during the work - I don't want my filter to need cycling all over again, so I'd want to be able to keep it running. But, the other crucial factors, currently missing, are time & energy. One day, one day .....

Anyway, my naughty fish are busily eating away at my riccia

Below is a shot of the rocks. On Wednesday, you couldn't see any of the rocks. They didn't eat java moss, so I wonder why they're eating this.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Here is a shot of my very 1st flower ever. And it wasn't there when I bought the plant either, it grew in the tank all by itself. You can see even see a little pearling on the left hand side. It was actually pearling all over, but only the bubble on the left shows in the pic.

Ho hum, says Ingo who has flowers all the time, but this is my FIRST. It took long enough - about 6 months.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
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Ho Hum



If you ever should go and move the fish out to redo the tank then I would say add the filter media to one bucket and have an air pump going on it. Also, add some of the plants to that bucket (the rest of them with the fish). That should take care of the media and the bacteria.

As to fish eating the Riccia: Java moss tastes , Riccia is . That is why, try it yourself (just kidding on the trying part).
I would assume that the main plant eaters are the platies and the rainbows.

Nice flower, hope you will have many more.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 15:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn congrats on the flower

I like the way you setup the riccia rocks running from center to front. Is that the Blyxa to the right?

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 16:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn, we all know that Ingo has only had one anubias flower, but has taken MANY pictures of it and has released them slowly to us over time. Don't let him tell you any different.



Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients
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You found me out. Actually, I never had even one. I took photos of them in varuious fish stores.

Ingo


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Thanks for the replies guys. Yep, rainbows & platys eat the riccia, but so do the corys. Annoying, as I had to search hard & missed out on 3 bids on ebay before I could get the riccia. None in LFS.
I like the way you setup the riccia rocks running from center to front. Is that the Blyxa to the right?
Thanks tetratech. The effect is lost in a full view, cause the rocks are too low. I need to create more of a division, both in height & separation. Once I find suitable rocks & get more riccia. Yes that is blyxa to the right. In front of the blyxa is dwarf chain sword & behind the blyxa is lilly grass. This side of the tank is an experiment, as the plants shouldn't really grow in my light. I think that's why the chain sword is going yellow & the blyxa isn't as green as it should be. The only one doing well is the lilly grass, my least favourite, but if the others all die I'll pack in more of that instead. I even have one red plant in there & so far it isn't dying, but it's not a fast grower like my wisteria or hygro.

All in all, the tank is less work to maintain these days, with the only faster growers being tucked in behind the big piece of wood.



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Ingo
Java moss tastes , Riccia is .
I wonder if I should plant it the way the seller instructed. He gave 2 versions, the 1st being how I did it (riccia straight on the rock & then secured). But he said he grows it himself by putting a thin layer of riccia, then a layer of java moss, & then a 2nd layer of riccia on top, then securing it. The mixture might make it taste less appealing.

Any thoughts?

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Hm, interesting.

All options on mixing other plants with Riccia that I have heard of have been solemnly for the purpose of keeping the plant down and locked to a location. Usually, hair grass is recommended for that purpose.

I never heard off mixing in moss to make the taste worse. I would assume that a fish can distinct between the light green Riccia and the dark green moss. Or is it assumed that the flavor would carry over from one plant to the other?

If you have some spare Moss and some spare Riccia, it sure would not harm to try it, but I don't know the outcome.

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As a reminder, here is a shot of the tank before tonight's water change. The creeping wisteria always grows too high for my liking.

Attached Image:


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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Here is a shot of the banana plant (or whatever it's called) that came for free with a plant order. It was an extra, 'cause the order was late. There have been at least 2 shoots that have already reached to surface, but I cut them off. As they look now, I quite like them. The stem can reach the surface really quickly. Two days ago, they were all fairly short (about the size in this pic) but tonight, I cut 2 back that had reached the surface & then started to cross the tank.

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Here is tonight's full shot. The creeping wisteria has been lowered & I have some new rocks. I took the riccia off the old rocks, but didn't even really have enough to cover just one of the rocks. I'll have to try to win another ebay auction for the stuff.

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Lastly, a close up of the area with the new rocks.

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Very nice Robyn
The wisteria is so easy to cut back that's one reason I like it. The banana plant looks like an Anubias in that pic. Adds some nice interest. Save some money and just wait for the riccia to grow. I started with a tiny amount just enough to partially cover two small rocks and have never purchased anymore.

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Nice Robyn,

What is that plant in front of the Blyxa? Tenellus?

Right now your tank actually has a distinct street, on the right of the driftwood with the Blyxa in the back and the other one in the front. It will be interesting to see how the addition of a full Riccia stone at the left of it will change this (hold on to the picture for later comparison).

I am with tetratech, if you have the time then just grow out enough Riccia. On the other hand, it is hard to wait so long to achieve some vision one has right now.

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Hi tetratch & LF. Thanks for the replies.

What is that plant in front of the Blyxa? Tenellus?
LFS told me it's chain sword. Maybe it is Tenellus, I don't really know.
if you have the time then just grow out enough Riccia
It's more whether my fish leave the riccia be or not. Last Wednesday I received a 30cm sq batch of riccia. A week later, all I have left is what you see on that one rock. I mightn't have enough light for it either.

I added additional layers of hair net, to make the fishes work harder to get at it. If this doesn't work, I guess it's back to java moss, but that's not what I really want.

Right now your tank actually has a distinct street....
I think I'm purposely trying to create layers & divisions. The left hand side isn't quite right at the moment, as the hyrgo is still too short. My vision for the left side is:- light green,low growing wisteria, a few inches of dark wood showing above it, with the darkish fern on top. Then rising behind would be the taller & lighter colours of blue stricta & hygro. I've heard others say this too, but there only seems a short period of time when these fast stem growers are just the right height. Then it's time for a trim & I'm left with a couple of weeks when they're too short. That's where I'm at now. My plan for the red rocks, topped with glosso, is that they are to follow the wisteria as it turns to wrap around & behind the big wood. Then to the right, the low field of my experimental plants of Blyxa, chain sword, lilly grass as well as nana anubia. Finished off with branchy wood & java ferns. We don't seem to have NL java fern - not even on-line, but that's what I'd really like to replace the java fern with. One day, I may yet find it. This side also has some crypts left over from the original planting. They really don't fit in, but so far they are healthy & I have no where to put them.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
It's more whether my fish leave the riccia be or not. Last Wednesday I received a 30cm sq batch of riccia. A week later, all I have left is what you see on that one rock. I mightn't have enough light for it either.

Yeah that's probably the difference growth rates based on the light. I have alot of fish that eat it (rainbow, rams) and I actually starve my fish, so they end up eating more it.

I actually feel I have a pretty good situation with the riccia, because it grows, but not at such a fast rate, so I only have to trim once a month or so. If I increase light probably more pearling, more growth on both the riccia and the stargrass I might actually start to reduce my stargrass to almost an accent instead of a main group. It just grows to fast. It's got to be one of the fastest growers around especially overnite.

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Hi tetratech

Thanks for response. I have seen pearling on my riccia, but not consistently. I agree the problem is probably the light - which is giving problems on most of the plants on the right hand side.

I don't know that I'll be able to change the lights, as hubby is really against me doing it. I'm searching the net & asking the manufacturer if there are any instructions about retrofit kits to upgrade the lighting in an Aqua One hood.

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DeletedPosted 08-Sep-2006 16:00
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Weekly update. I've allowed the creepin wisteria to grow in higher this week - no trimming. This was because I have platy fry hiding in it & want to give them as much cover as I can. Even so, I think they have mostly ended up as snacks.

Here is a full shot, with the overgrown creeping wisteria. Note the two lily pad leaves on the surface. Follow the stems down to left hand side of the tank. Everyone was right when the said the banana lily pads will travel all over the place.

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Next will come a couple of shots from the top of the tank, giving a better view of the banana lily pad. Looks like even though they seek the light, that they have been burnt a little by getting too close.

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Another areal shot. You get a glimpse of my experimental red plant. I don't know what it's called (as I didn't expect to have it long). It's been in there around a month & I've placed it where it gets no shade & is directly under the tubes.

It hasn't died - but the under leaves are greener, I think. You can also see the Blyxa next to it & to the right.

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Another experiment - dwarf hair grass.

Having trouble keeping this one in the grave.

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My riccia is starting to grow. It may not show up here, but I can see bright green little shoots peeking out of the hair net.

None at the moment, but I often see it pearling.

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It seems that out of my experimental plants that at least the chain sword is doing more than just existing. It has sent out runners, but not in the direction I wanted. Here is a picture of them crossing in front of my riccia rock. After the photo, I pulled up the runners & redirected them where I wanted them (behind the riccia rock.

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
One of these days, I will get out the calendar & count out what week I'm up to. Anyway, here's the start of this week's update.

My experimental red stem plant is no more. I have a gap in the tank where it was & when I can find them, I'll fill in the gap with more chain swords. Out of all the experimental plants on that side of the tank, I think it is the one that is doing the best. The Blyxa is just sort of hanging in there, but the chain swords look nice & green.

The tank hasn't changed much, basically 'cause I'm fairly happy with it. I still like the wood on the right hand side too much to remove it. The fern on my main wood is getting some algae - it's going brown in places.



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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
The next few posts are just me trying to capture the beauty of my male Pelvicachromis taeniatus Nigeria Red

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And another

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Robyn,

At least from the distance the tank looks very nice

All seems to be lush and healthy, and that is a good thing.

And the first shot of your Nigeria Red is also pretty good, he sure does look very colorful (and mean - did you bug him? ).

How is the hair grass experiment coming along?

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 17:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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your Nigeria Red is also pretty good, he sure does look very colorful (and mean - did you bug him? ).
That is just how he looks, but he is actually very peaceful. He is my 2nd Nigeria Red. I bought him as a playmate for the one in my 20G, as he looked lonely. I thought this would work, as some detail I found on these fish said they were conspecific peaceful - but my 1st male must not have read up on that fact & he was having none of it. He angrily watched during the acclimatisation process & once I released the intruder, he made an immediate physical change. His face turned the brightest red ever, he puffed up his cheeks to at least double size & opened his mouth to the fullest. I guess this is his fighting look. I had to rescue the intruder within minutes & had no choice but to add him to this tank without a QT period. I hope I don't have any problems with this.
How is the hair grass experiment coming along?
Not too bad. Here is a shot. I do notice some tips that are a bit brown, so I'll keep watching it. I have a bit of a hodge podge of experimental plants in this section, which eventually I'll need to come to some sort of decision of which will stay & which will go. I'm enjoying how they reduce the maintenance in the tank, having this side of the tank with plants that don't need trimming.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 17:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
That's a nice find on the Pelvicachromis taeniatus. I haven't seen those in New York. So they are African but live in soft acidic water different from their cousin Pelvicachromis pulcher.

The blyxa definitely needs strong light. I'm actually surprised it's lasted as long as it has with your current lights.

EDIT: How long has the hairgrass been in there.

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Pelvicachromis taeniatus. I haven't seen those in New York. So they are African but live in soft acidic water different from their cousin Pelvicachromis pulcher.
They're West African, I think from a riverine area called Cameroon. Where I bought him, they only had 2 males & I bought both of them. There's one in the 20G too. In the 20G I picked up a female from another LFS, and I'm only hoping that she really is a match. She doesn't have the red on her like the males - but when I googled on the internet, it seemed normal for the female to have a yellow chin instead. They apparently like a low pH, but can live happily in 7 or above. For breeding, soft water with a low pH is best - but this guy has no wife. the water should suit him though, as it fluctuates from 6.8 to 7.5, depending on what time in the C02 cycle it is.
How long has the hairgrass been in there.
Not that long, only since around 8 September.

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
I'm going away tomorrow for 3 nights, so fingers crossed the C02 doesn't run out while I'm gone. Hoping it won't matter too much that the ferts & traces won't get dosed as usual. I think I'd rather leave the tank untouched while I'm gone, rather than ask hubby or my daughter to feed or dose the tank. It should cope for those days I'm away, I'm guessing. All the tanks will miss out on their weekly water change, but even that I assume as a "once off event" will not matter too much.

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Robyn,

It may matter a little, but if you throw in a water change once you are back you should be fine. If your tank would be on the edge to collaps then it would matter more.

Have fun at whatever you are doing for the next few days,

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Thanks Ingo
Have fun at whatever you are doing for the next few days
5 domestic flights & a couple of driving trips in 3 days, on a business trip. Doesn't found like that much fun. Unfortunately, I will have a couple of these type of trips during the next 6-12 months.

I think whatever mess may happen by the neglect, may be better than what could happen if someone plays with the tank - as I haven't really taught anyone properly. When I went to the marathon in April I asked if someone could feed the small 7G hospital tank & I came home to murky water. I couldn't clear it by doing daily 50% water change over several days & finally pulled the tank completely apart. It had an underground filter & when I took all the gravel out - the gunk under there was unbelievable. Hard to imagine how much the fish would have been overfed to have caused that much gunk in one weekend. Since then, I've never asked anyone to touch any of the tanks.

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I asked if someone could feed the small 7G hospital tank & I came home to murky water
If you had mentioned how much to feed per day and it hadn't been done right (and all your family members are grown-ups) then this is a sign that they don't really want to take care of your tanks. So - not having anyone do anything may be the best approach .

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I agree. Even if I'm gone a week, I don't have anybody feed the tank. Very dangerous.



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I'm hoping someone can set me straight here. Way back when I first started out, I've looked back through my earliest threads & I can see Tom Barr suggested I should add the epsom salt 1/2 tspn after the water change. I also thought bensaf said the same, but 1/4 tspn. I don't remember for sure why I'm adding it though.

The subject of adding epsom salt came up in another thread and here is an extract of one of the comments in regards to epsom salt
So_Very_Sneaky Wrote:
Do Not add Epsom salt to a tank with every water
change. Epsom salts can actually cause the fish to be
robbed of fluids. This should only ever be used in cases of constipation, and only in a dip. You should never ever keep a constant amount of epsom salts in your tank.


Now I'm sure that the plant expert Tom Barr would not have recommended the epsom salt if it was going to harm my fish, but So_Very_Sneaky seems very sure of her advice.

I was wondering what other opinions there are on the issue of epsom salts? I don't want to hurt my fish.

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Robyn,

I don't know what this salt is for either . Can it be that it was suggested to you instead of Baking Soda or Seachem Equilibrium, the first to buffer KH, the second to buffer GH?

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
I can only find Tom's response, can't find bensaf's. But what I remember him writing was something along these lines: "you don't need the expensive Seachem Equilibrium, epsom salt will do".

You're an IT wiz - how can I call up all of my threads - not just my active threads? Maybe then when I have some time I can search for bensaf's advice on this (at least I think it was bensaf - could be wrong).

If it's going to hurt my fish, I won't use it .... but there must have been a reason why Tom Barr recommended it. That thread I can find, but Tom doesn't say why I'm adding it.

Thanks for the response Ingo

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I was close, with my guess that it is either KH or GH related.

Anyway, you don't really need an IT wiz for that

If you remember the forum it was posted in then go there and expand the list of threads to "last year". Then use the find menu (In your browser window, the Edit Menu drop down, option find). Type in your name (TankWatcher) and hit "find next" until you come to the thread that may contain the answer.

If you did not create that thread then your name wouldn't do. In this case try to remember any word that may have been in the title and search by that word.

Hope this helps,

Ingo


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Epsom salts, or magnesium sulfate, is the accepted way of raising Mg levels in your tank. I think Mg falls under GH as they aren't carbonates. I was adding it in limited amounts at water changes for the nesea when I had it and still add a little bit.

As far as robbing your fish of water: yes, in high enough concentrations. Fresh water fish cant handle high concentrations of any salt like marine fish can. But saying you can't add any MgSO4 to your tank at water changes is silly. It's the same as saying you can't add aquarium salt to your tank. I'm not sure that aquarium salt has a beneficial effect, but we've all seen that low concentrations it won't hurt anybody.

From wetwetbmedia.com
Re: quick Epsom Salt question
Hello again, and thanks for all the help!
<our pleasure>
Could you please explain what Epsom salt does and its proper usage in the aquarium setting? ~Jim
<Okey-dokey... Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) is a fundamental and necessary component of sea salt but has numerous benefits to life at large. It is used with people and pets (birds, dogs, cats, etc) as a laxative. In the aquarium, this very property helps stressed and struggling creatures maintain better osmotic balance. Thus, a fish with a bumped and swollen eye can get relief (fluid from swollen eye) from Epsom salt. It is added to most dry fish foods to prevent internal blockage from greedy feeding fishes. It also is used in fresh or salt water to raise hardness and electrolyte levels. Dosed in moderation, there are few disadvantages to it. Most doses are 1 tsp to 1 TBSPN per 10 gallons and can be repeated. There is more information in our archives on this topic. Best regards, Anthony>


That's Anthony Calfo...one of the foremost in the reef hobby and propagating corals. Knows his stuff.



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Post InfoPosted 17-Oct-2006 03:14Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Thanks Matty & Ingo for the Epsom salt advice.

Thought I'd share a pic of my 2nd ever annubia flower. I won't get too excited. Do you see to the right of this flower a bent over stem. That is my 1st ever flower. I don't know why, but it only stayed open for a day or so, then the leaf case closed back up around the flower & it bent over backwards on itself. Why would it do this?

I hope this flower doesn't do the same.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
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mattyboombatty
 
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I never saw an anubias flower do that, but they don't usually last very long anyways. Mine have always shed the casing, then the flower kind of dies off. Maybe it realized it was under water.



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You Nana Flower Amateurs

Anyway, the length of the life of a flower in my tanks depends mostly on the tank conditions, low tech = long, high tech = short. Makes sense, as all growth in a high tech is much faster.

In the high tech:

I usually see a closed bud developing for about a week, with the stem extending and the bud beginning to release a stream of really small air bubbles.

The the bud opens and the white flower center emerges, staying healthy for about 2 to 4 days.

Then, the structure starts to desintigrate, often the center falls off after a while (or dies off until only the skinny core is left), followed by the bud leaf. Most of the time though I do not wait for this to happen and trim the stem off after the flower had its hay days.

In the low tech:

The same, but muuuuuuch slower

That's my story and I am sticking to it,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 18-Oct-2006 13:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Oh, 2-4 days. Is that all. I was expecting weeks of enjoyment So, I have already had this new flower for a couple of days, so I should expect it be gone any moment.

Funny that my other one's casing didn't drop off (as well as the flower). The casing closed back up around the flower and all is still there. It doesn't look dead or unhealthy - but should I trim it off?

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Robyn,

The tank is looking good. My first Anubias flower did the same thing until I got tired of it and cut it off at a trimming. The one I just got recently bloomed and the disappeared very quickly.

Also a tip incase you have to have someone feed again. This works for flake food. Get some small envelopes and put enough food for each day in each one. Then tell who ever is watching the tank to only put one envelope in at a time no matter what. This way you still dose the food.


Rick
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Robyn,

Yeah, that may happen, flowers may decide that it is too wet outside . Wait a while and as long as it is not starting to disintegrate you can keep it without any issues.

Rick's tip is good. I have a different form of providing food for a "feeder". I use these one-week pill cases where each day is a separate chamber. They have even the beginning letters of the day imprinted, as such I am able to provide different foods for different days in the right order.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Oct-2006 13:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hoping for some quick advice about my chain swords - they are one of my experimental plants on the right side of the tank (experimental due to low light). Anyway, they have taken off with a mind of their own, with little runners & new smaller plants - all going where I don't want them. To replant them, can I separate them fully (ie cut off the runners that link them together & then just plant them where I want them?

Thanks for advice.

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TW
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mattyboombatty
 
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Yes, you can seperate each plant and replant where you want. Leave just a small amount of the runner on either side of the plant.

Nice to hear they are doing well for you. These are one of my favorite plants



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In case it is needed, I second Matty

Except: Try not to replant the ones that have only a few shorter leaves yet. They may not be strong enough to build up a sufficient root system on their own. The also are hard to keep planted and always give me the biggest trouble sticking in the groud.

Ingo


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I say do try to keep the small ones as long as they do have a bit of root and 1 leaf of at least and inch and a small leaf or two. I've not gotten anything much smaller than that to grow for me, but if they are that big I can consistantly get them to grow to full size.



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Thanks for the chain sword advice LF & Matty. At last night's water change, I did a major trimming of the tank & I think I may have gotten carried away. It is looking a bit bare in there at the moment. As well as trimming the hygro, I decided to redo the right hand side of the tank - which had been the experimental side. Got rid of some of the varieties & stuck with the ones that worked best. The chain sword had been hiding the Blyxa from view, so they have swapped places. From a starting group of about 2 or 3 blyxa, I now have 8 of them. So, they are sort of working in the tank, but not as lush as they would be if they had more light. they are staying quite small - but at least they did multiply. I hope they survive the replanting. The last batch did not survive when replanted. You can now see my crypt & anubia more. The chain swords have moved to behind the Blyxa and again, from a start of 2 plants, I now have lots of them. Made a bit of a mistake. I can never quite tell how everything is going when I'm replanting & I never get the full picture until the hood is back on & the light switched on. While planting, I thought I had put more than enough chain swords back in and threw out what I thought were surplus. Only after they were squashed & worthless did I realise that I should have kept them. Hopefully in another month or 2, I will have enough to fill it all out a bit more. I also thinned out my java fern & again I think I may have taken too much out. Those I have saved though. I have a whole bucket full of java ferns that multiplied in the tank. I'm going to think about if I want to put some back over the couple of days.

No pictures today, maybe I will take some on the weekend.

Cheers
TW
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LITTLE_FISH
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Robyn,

seems like you almost did a redo Little_Fish style. A word of caution: replanting a lot and trimming/thinning the rest of the plants at the same time can cause some issues in your tank. Your bio-mass has been reduced and the replanted plants will need all their energy to get settled again.

Ingo


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bensaf
 
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Bit late on this one but with regard to the Epsom Salts. It's just Magnesium Sulphate. Once you have GH above zero you Magnesium in the water, always , constantly. How many fish live in zero GH water ?

Maybe in very high concentrations there's an issue, I don't know. But we are only talking about adding the equivilent of about 2dgh, and only add in situations where the GH is already low. Completely and utterly harmless to fish. In most cases where Mg is added the water will still be softer and have less Mg then the average tank.


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Post InfoPosted 03-Nov-2006 16:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Bensaf. I have looked at the ingredients of Seachem's Equilibrium & see that it contains magnesium sulfate. So much for it being harmful to fish.

Thanks for popping in.

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TW
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
seems like you almost did a redo Little_Fish style.
Yeah, I sneak them in every now & again - pretty much unnoticed. When I added my large wood with the fern -that was pretty much a full redo as well.

Anyway, here is the full tank shot. It needs a little more filling out. To the left of the hygro is a disappointment - more about that with the next pic.



Attached Image:


Cheers
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My blue stricta (also seen it called Temple) previously did really well. It always grew tall, hiding the unsightly water intake pipe & the ugly pump. It was always multiplying. For the last couple of months it has not done well at all. See those damaged leaves. There are lots of holes & it just never grows tall anymore. This pic is not really showing how bad it looks - much worse in real life. What do the holes mean? I wonder if before the trimming, the hygro was shading it too much - but I think it has been doing badly well before it became shaded by the hygro. Any suggestions? I like this plant & would like to see it work again.

Attached Image:


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TW
Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 09:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Creeping wisteria to the left, java & Ricca on rock in the middle. Not too much riccia though - most of 30cm I bought has been eaten - but there is some. The pic doesn't show it, but they do contrast each other nicely. The re-positioned blyxa (never can remember how to spell that) is just to the right. I don't know yet if it will survive the move. Parts don't look so good anymore.

Attached Image:


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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 09:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
The new right hand side. With the hair grass & Lilly grass removed - as well as a major thinning of the Java fern, you can now see the crypts & the anubias. I hope they don't attract algae now they are so exposed to the light. They've been shaded so long, they wouldn't be used to it.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 10:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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This one shows my chain sword peeping over from the back, but really it is just because I like my nigerian red male so much. Such a peaceful and well behaved fellow. Tries to come to the surface for food, but really, I think he dislikes the ill mannered feeding behaviour of the other greedy occupants. Think he finds the rainbows in particular too pushy.

Attached Image:


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LITTLE_FISH
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Potassium, Potassium, Potassium

Holes AND stunted growth = lack of Potassium

In 99.9% of all situations, at least

Otherwise, tank looks very nice. If you can afford it, maybe the right side shouldn't grow all in. This way it would stay more of an open playground.

Blyxa was spelled right

I guess you will run out of Riccia soon, if the mass is in decline because of eating. Maybe you want to save a little and build it back up in another tank.

And the nigerian is really looking very nice

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 11:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks LF,

Potassium - that's the KN03, isn't it? I currently dose 1/2 tspn 3 times a week. How much do think I should increase?

Yes, I love my Nigerian For looks, he is my current favourite fish. Due to his peaceful nature, I'd even give him a mate - if I could only find one & then be sure they are a true match.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 12:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Nooooo

While there is some potassium in KNO3 (the K is the potassium, the whole thing is called Potassium Nitrate), there is much more N (nitrate). You use this substance primarily to beef up the nitrate. A substance like K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate, best as it only has an impact on K), or (I think you use it) to a limited value Seachem Equilibrium (which also influences other things, like calcium and magnesium and as such GH) adds the missing parts.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 14:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks LF,

Hmmm, K2SO4. I don't have any of that. I will have to track some down. I guess I can get some from the same place I got my KH2P04 & KN03.

When I get it, how much should I use & how frequently. I think all my tanks must lack this, as I have holes in leaves in them all.

Thanks for the tip.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 15:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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It's near impossible to overdose k2so4 so I usually add a ppm every day. The stuff doesn't like to dissolve in water very much so I think that you'll end up dosing a few ml of the highest solution possible. I got mine from greg watson. That's where I get all my ferts.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 15:52Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Actually, my powder dissolves rather well

As I am "feeding" a quite large dosage of Equilibrium after each water change I do not add extra Potassium until the 3rd (=last) "feeding" of macros during the week.

Overall, the goal is to have your potassium levels (in ppm) equal to the nitrate level, if you follow EI that means around 20ppm. The problem is that there seems to be no cheap measuring kit for potassium. As such I had to hunt down the %of content within all the components that I add to evaluate how much potassium I need.

But as Matty says, it is hard to OD on this stuff. I would say that if you get your hands on K2SO4 then you could easily add 3x1/8tsp to 3x1/4tsp without any issues.

Also, isn't K2SO4 available in gardening stores as Stump Remover? I don't remember.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 17:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Stump remover is KNO3. I'm not sure there is a common source out there under a different name for K2SO4.

What I meant about the K2SO4 not dissolving well is that it comes to saturation quickly(after a certain point, no more will dissolve). It's impossible to make a super concentrated supply like with KNO3. For my fert bottles I have 1ml of my solution = a certain amount in my tank. With PO4 and KNO3 it's easy to make that 1ml=1ppm in my tank, but the K2SO4 the highest concentration gives 1ml=.28ppm in my tank.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 20:54Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Matty for clarifying that I only released nonsens when I spoke about Stomp Remover

So Robyn, that's not it then.

Matty - Why do you make a solution in the first place? I just mix them up with tank water before adding it. Is your quantity so small that a measuring spoon would not work?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 22:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Matty for clarifying that I only released nonsens when I spoke about Stomp Remover


you were really close if that's any consolation.

Yep, for 1ppm of KNO3 a day I'd be adding less than a tenth of a teaspoon, so accuracy is a little hard. I like to add my ferts daily, for a number of reasons, but mostly cause I forget to do it if it's not ritualistically every morning before I leave for class. This also keeps the ppm of nitrate around 10.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 23:30Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Matty & Ingo

If I can find some, then I will add K2SO4 3x1/8tsp or maybe 3x1/4tsp, on the same day as I add the other dry ferts. A hydroponics place supplied the other powders, so I hope they have this too.

Cheers
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Hi,
Stump remover is the common source for KNO3. Just be sure
that what you purchase does not have anything added to
speed up the decaying process.
Fleet Enema's are the common source for K2SO4. Again,
be sure to purchase the green package. The other color
package has additional "stuff" that is not ideal for the
aquarium.
Frank


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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 07:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the info Frank and thanks for popping in.

Cheers
TW
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mattyboombatty
 
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Hate to be the correction guy, but Fleet Enemas are used to dose PO4. The chemical formula is H2NaPO4.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
You probably don't need to dose Potassium separately. Your getting 3 to 2 ratio of No3 (N) to s04 (K) in KNO3, which if dosed 3 times a week should bring you to within EI ranges. Remember EI ranges are 10-20ppm for No3 and so4 so you could be off by alot and still hit your mark.

I personally never dose so4 and have never seen any deficenies that are known to be caused by low potassium.

All I dose is:

KNO3
PO4
Flourish

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 23:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I would still dose that K.

Even though you're dosing KNO3, the signs still point to a K deficiency. Follow what the plants tell you...

Love the windelov mound, by the way


Back in the saddle!
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Thanks matty, tetratech & NowherMan6 for popping in and for the advice. I don't know if it's the potasium or not, but I do know I'm getting holes in the leaves, even with following the EI method strictly - so something is off. I figure it can't hurt to try the potassium, so if I can find it (haven't rung them yet) I will dose & see if it might mean no holes on new leaves.

It's a bit of a trip to get the stuff, but I will be passing that way on the 19th. In the meantime, I have some seachem equilibrium I've never used. Ordered it on line, when someone in another thread scared me off epsom salt. Instructions say to use so much of the stuff - but maybe until I get my potassium, it will help a little? Do you think so - or will it mess up my EI dosing?

Thanks again.

EDIT,
Love the windelov mound, by the way
NowherMan6, forgot to say thanks. I love it too, but I hope it stays low & doesn't grow much taller.

Cheers
TW
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Even though you're dosing KNO3, the signs still point to a K deficiency. Follow what the plants tell you...
Hear Hear!

Exactly my feelings. As holes in the plants don't simply happen for no reason, and in the vast majority of cases are potassium related, and given that some OD on potassium is not harmful, there is no reason not to add it.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 11:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi guys,

I have a question about the traces. I don't think we have the tropica brand I've reading you all discussing, so I use Seachem. I have always ordered on-line Seachem Fourish Trace (a broad range of trace elements demonstrated to be necessary for proper plant health and growth). By error on my last order, I must have ordered Seachem Flourish (a comprehensive plant supplement for the natural freshwater aquarium. It contains a rich assortment of important micro elements, trace elements and other nutrients. These include calcium, magnesium, iron and other important elements that have been shown to be beneficial to aquatic plants).

I'm wondering, is Flourish better than Flourish Trace. It seems to contain more, but is it at the cost of the Trace elements being lower? Because Flourish Trace on it's own didn't seem to include iron, I've also been adding that separately on the same days I add Trace.

Which product do you think would be best for my long term use.

Thanks.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 13-Nov-2006 00:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Robyn,

You may remember that I not too long ago ran out of TMG and that there was none available anymore. When asking around here I was informed that the most proper replacement would be Flourish and not Trace, so that would mean that your accidental purchase is for the better

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 13-Nov-2006 01:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I use flourish, not trace, as one of the 4 brands of trace supplements that I use. As such I can't comment on it specifically other than it seems to have a great amount of different nutrients that aren't found in my other traces. All in all, the mix is working pretty good IMO.



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Post InfoPosted 13-Nov-2006 05:58Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Robyn,
I just happened to come across this, you might have seen it but it's an example dosing chart for EI. They also note so4 dosing as optional. But what nowher said about "what the plants are saying" is good advice. I will be curious to see if it's due to a lack of K.

From EI Dosing chart
Note: K2SO4 is not required for dosing unless you need the extra Potassium (K). This K is found in KN03 and KH2P04. Dosing these two according to above will yield sufficient K levels. Therefore, one will be fine dosing only KN03 and KH2P04, and Plantex. If one needs to increase their K levels with K2S04, add the same measured amount as KH2P04. For example, if one is dosing 1/2 tsp of KH2P04, then dose 1/2 tsp of K2S04.
In true regards to EI, added excess K is not detrimental in any event





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My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 13-Nov-2006 19:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Thanks Matty & Ingo for the thumbs up for the Flourish.

Thanks tetratech for the extra info on ferts & the handy table.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 14-Nov-2006 23:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
I'm playing around with replacing this tank. Will need some more time to think about it, but how about a tank of the below dimensions:-

36" in length
18" in width
24" in height

This will give me 67.3G, instead of my current 43.5. I'll have a bit extra size in all directions & most importantly, I can get a cannister filter & whatever light fitting I want. I'd be allowed to set this new tank up straightaway, as long as I gave up on the 4ft tank & shut this one down.

What do you think about this size tank. I like the 24" height, as less frequent trimming required. Are there any issues about the light not reaching the bottom of the tank. Light would be around 200watts (compact PCs I think).

Any issues with this tank size? Comments appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 20-Nov-2006 00:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Remember that tall tanks are hard to scape, and for it to look good many times you have to ignore the top 3rd of the tank. You could think of it as a 75, just a foot short on one side. Something similar would be the 50 like I have. It's 36X18X18, and would be easier to light and scape IMO. Either way you go a loverly tank it shall be.

At 2 ft a large % of light is lost, but with ~200w, I don't think you will have trouble growing any plant due to light requirements. If you are going with the 2x96w pc, I think that should be plenty.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Nov-2006 01:39Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah Robyn,

I am with Matty, you basically would have his 50, just higher, or my 40 and much higher, or, half the lenght of my 125 and same height.

Albeit I am usually in sink with "the bigger the better", this shape would not be my favorite. Get a longer and deeper one, height is not so important (as in, keep it less heigh).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Nov-2006 00:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Thanks Matty & LF for the advice on tank sizes. I will consider for a bit longer, but I'm still not sure if I want higher than I have already, which is nearly 18inches. I can't go wider than 18 inches, as I'm limited by the cupboard width it sits on. If the tank remains in the same position, it can't go longer than 36inches - as it is getting too close to the window.

Another reason not to rush in with the decision is that I maybe have tentative permission to buy & set up a 4ft tank (but wider & taller than the 2nd hand one I bought recently - it's a narrow & low tank). Still only a maybe, but I'm not going to rush into a new 3ft if I have any chance of setting up a 4ft.

Just finished water changes on all 3 tanks & it's now 1.30am. Trimmed my riccia for the first time tonight & I am about to attach my harvest to another rock. I had more riccia than I thought. Some of my riccia is a dark green & some is a very light colour. I wonder if tetratech's is the same? I thought the dark growth was java, as I grew my riccia on a java base. On closer inspection on trimming, I can see it is mostly riccia. Riccia leaves (or whatever you call these on moss) are very different to java moss. Strand by strand, I removed most of the underlining java moss & will now use it for the base for the new riccia rock.

One of the anubia plants in this tank is constantly flowering - though really I see little point, as they only last a couple of days. It is only this plant though - none of the others can be bothered it seems.

That's it for now.

EDIT. I think I see improvement since I started adding K2S04. I'm sure I see new growth that doesn't have the holes, but as I hadn't previously trimmed off the effected leaves, I'm not sure. They're trimmed off now - so I should know for sure by next water change.

EDIT no 2: Yay, I have enough riccia to cover 3 additional small rocks - just hope these rocks will get enough light for riccia to grow as well as it did on the front rock.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 16:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And where is the picture that shows us these new Riccia rocks?

Glad to read that it seems as if your fert correction shows results.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 03-Dec-2006 15:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Nothing much new in this tank, other than to say my Tenellus and blyxia are going great guns, especially since they are not supposed to in my low light tank. I guess the C02 & the ferts are saving the day. The only criticism of my tenellus is that it multiples where I don't want it to. It had runners growing all through & around the blyxia, but I managed to get it out without uprooting the blyxia.

I am very close to removing all of my stem plants in this tank. My thoughts for the left side are to take all stems out & push my wood with the fern towards the back, have low growing wisteria at the very front & I will have one more try at a red plant in between the wisteria & the wood.

I think Bensaf told me once the name of a red plant that may have a slightly lower light requirement. I'll try to find the name & see if it is available here in Aus.

The right hand side will stay more or less how it's been for a while, although I might try for some bigger rocks than those I have. The current rocks get lost amongst the plants, even though they are low plants. Shame to have touproot the riccia, to move to any new rock - 'cause even that is doing as well as I could expect in my tank.

That's it for now.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 21-Dec-2006 12:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Took out all my stems at tonight's water change. The only fast grower now is the ground hugging wisteria.

The set up by no means looks complete at the moment - I need some larger rocks for the riccia, as the current ones get lost.

May not do anything for a little while though, due to this development http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/32247.1.htm?0#



Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 27-Dec-2006 16:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Here is a full shot of the tank today (day after water change & removal of all stem plants).

In the pic, all the greens of my wisteria, chain sword & riccia all blend together, but in reality, there is a difference, albeit not enough. That's why I'd like some larger rocks to make the divisions clearer.

The tank should be a lot easier to maintain, with the loss of the stems. The riccia, chain sword & Blyxa are all doing so well, I am quite happy with them.

My crypts & anubia though, have green spot algae. This worries me, as I am considering going high light soon in a new tank. Am I just inviting an algae problem if I do?



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Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Dec-2006 08:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Here's a close up of my riccia rock. It's ready for another trim

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Dec-2006 08:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Here's a shot showing the algae that is typically on my anubia & crypts.

What can help here. I already have 5 otos in there (was able to do a head count at last night's water change & they are all present & accounted for).

Any suggestions? Like I said earlier, it concerns me, as I'm considering going hi-light in a soon to come tank and I hope I am not just asking for trouble with the increased WPG.

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Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Dec-2006 08:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Thought it was time to introduce the new resident apisto triple red cac. He has settled in well. There are no disputes between him & the Nigerian male - nor anyone one else. He is a very peaceful fellow. He was quick to learn how best to get his share of the food, with all the other greedy & quick eaters in the tank, so I think he will do well. I hope to get him a wife in February.

Blurry shot as usual, but here it is

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Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 07-Jan-2007 13:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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another

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Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 07-Jan-2007 13:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Time for another full tank shot. There is a new plant in the rear left corner. LFS said it's called Willow leaf or something similar (I forget exactly).

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 24-Jan-2007 16:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Not much has changed. At last night's water change, I removed a lot a chain sword, as it had multiplied & taken over a bit. For the 1st time, some of the remaining chain sword is showing some algae spots

The riccia was trimmed & enough was harvested to cover a new rock.

Blyxa is multiplying as well and a nice thick group has formed from the original 2 plants

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 01-Mar-2007 11:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
fish patty
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I have no advice, I just love seeing beautiful tanks. Just thought I'd let you know.
Post InfoPosted 01-Mar-2007 17:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Robyn,

Looking very healthy there. You say you see spots of algae on the tenellus? What kind of spots? Can it be that you removed so much that you upset the tank stability? And did you replant the remainder or did they stayed in? If replanted then this may be the cause of the algae as they will need to re-settle.

Otherwise, very nice, soon you will have soo much Riccia that you can sell it

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Mar-2007 15:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Nice Robyn!

It's interesting that your Riccia grows well (much better than mine) even with less light. I'm starting to think my water might be too soft for some plants I have.

I would love to see some thin branchy pieces of wood poking out from under the fern and coming over the new riccia rock and some of the other plants near the front. It would really give the tank some nice constrast and add'l depth.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 02-Mar-2007 18:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Wow, 3 visitors !!! Thanks to all for popping in.

fish patty, thanks for such a nice comment. Much appreciated.

LF, Well the spots are closer to black than green & they are on my anubia & crypts as well. It doesn't come off when rubbed with finger. I don't remember if it was there (or not) prior to tenellus thinning, but was there the next night. BTW, the spots were on the anubia & crypts prior to the thinning. No tenellus was replanted - what remains is as it was. I removed about 5 good sized plants & around 15 smaller ones. Still plenty there & very little free gravel at all in the tank. I was just making sure none of the riccia & blyxa weren't shaded. My tenellus grows great, but tries to take over the tank & would do so if given the chance.

Hi Tetra, yes I'm amazed too that the riccia, blyxa & tenellus all grow so well. I have more that double the riccia I started with, at least 4 times as much blyxa & I just have to keep getting rid of tenellus. Maybe C02 is more important than lights to these plants I continue to have no success with red plants though - any I trial die.

Thanks for scaping advice too, but all my tanks are on holding mode at the moment. I am waiting for hubby to pay me out for a bet I won & the winnings will be used to upgrade all my tanks. This tank will close down shortly & become a 36" x 19" tank & all plants & fish will transfer across. I already have the eco complete, eheim cannister filter & compact PC lighting sitting in the garage. (Wish I'd read your recent discussion in LF's log - seems you are all moving towards the idea of T5HO's being better than PC's). It also seems that I only need stronger lights if I want red plants (which I do).

So, once hubby comes up the winnings I'll be starting from scratch (scape wise) and looking for lots of suggestions like yours.

Anyway, thanks again for all popping in.

Cheers
TW
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Robyn,

Take your time with the redo, you are in no rush as the tank looks nice as it is

Anyway, my Anubias have once in a while blackish, or dark brownish, spots on them. I assume it is a form of algae that actually does not spread all that fast. My first set of Anubias that I added to that tank about 30 weeks ago developed such spots right away, I assume because the plant mass in the tank was not sufficient. I had them a long time ago in the 125 as well and it was suggested to me that the only way to remove the spotted parts is to remove the leaves.

Also, I am not certain anymore, in particular because of the discussion in my thread, if I would really like to have the T5s.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 04-Mar-2007 13:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Hi LF
Take your time with the redo, you are in no rush as the tank looks nice as it is
I will & thanks for the tank compliment.

I wonder if I'm doing the right thing, because I do like the tank as it is. In real life, it is a little nicer than the pics show. My camera (as said many times) is not that great & green just looks green (no contrast in shade). Actually there are many shades of green in there, so even without red, I do have more contrast than shows up.

Being a worrier, I wonder what troubles I'll bring into the new tank, as I'll have increased light. Am I just inviting a big algae mess - all for the sake of a red plant here or there? Maybe I should have just thrown in a red plastic plant & pretended.

But no, the light has been bought & it won't fit over this tank - it would overhang each side. The reason I didn't just convert this tank (like I did with the 23.7G) is that it is not a standard length & I couldn't get a light fitting to fit it's length.

I'm both looking forward to and a little scared of the change over plans.

Back to the black spot - I think my plant mass is sufficient. Another factor is that I was away from home from 2 Feb until 19 Feb & there were no ferts or traces going in the tank while I was gone - so maybe this is the reaction to that. Some anubia spotting was present before I went away, but not on the tenellus.

Thanks for dropping in LF.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 04-Mar-2007 14:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'm both looking forward to and a little scared of the change over plans.

Happens to me all the time

You never know if a change is for the better or worse. A good plan on what you want to do and how to manage to get there goes a long way. Spur of the moment changes are the worst, let me tell you

Another factor is that I was away from home from 2 Feb until 19 Feb & there were no ferts or traces going in the tank while I was gone

- If it didn't cause it, it for sure didn't help either. What about light and such? Was that as it always is?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 04-Mar-2007 15:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
If it didn't cause it, it for sure didn't help either. What about light and such? Was that as it always is?
Lighting schedule & C02 were on their usual schedule & I had someone feed the fish. It seemed like too much to ask for them to fertilise as well.

I am lucky the fish minder didn't make the same error on this tank, as on the 20G. At first I couldn't understand why the 20G was so filthy compared to the other 2 - until I discovered the lights had been on 24/7 for who knows how long. There's an over-ride switch on timer, so if you want lights on when the timer has turned them off, you flick the over-ride switch & lights are back on. In that mode, the timer can't turn the lights back off though.

The minder switched the over-ride on & forgot to turn it off again. I don't know how long lights were left on - it must have been quite a while though. I came back to a tank where my anubias will never look the same again - unless I trim off nearly all the leaves. Besides that, the tank was just plain filthy from the algae, but not so bad that one water change & a good cleaning of glass didn't sort it out. Except for the anubias, which look very sad. A little annoying as quite a few were newly added.

Just glad it didn't happen in this tank.

Cheers
TW
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Well,

First to this tank: when lights and CO2 were kept as usual, and no ferts where added for two weeks, plus unknown amounts of food added, that should do it for the algae.

The 20G story seems really bad, I don't know if I would use this minder ever again . But we have to take whoever is available

I have a timer that can be overwritten as well, but as soon as it hits the next interval setting it will revert to "normal". In this case, the worst would be one night with the lights on, or one day with the lights off. Look around for these types of timers, here in the US they are about $10 to $15 in the hardware store.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 04-Mar-2007 15:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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I don't know if I would use this minder ever again . But we have to take whoever is available
Well, what can I say. The minder was my 18yr old daughter, who tried hard & reported to me daily on my fishes activites. It was the 1st time this worried mother hen left her at home (although not alone - her 25yr old step-sister was with her - she was in charge of her Dad's marine tank).

I've made a multitude of mistakes over my short fish keeping career, and as you say, we have to take whoever is available.

That timer sounds good. I have not seen one like it, but will keep my eye out for one now.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 04-Mar-2007 17:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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*shakes fish at 18yr old daughter*

I say disown her!

J/K...I just saw that pic on the last page....looks great robyn! I'm very impressed. Sorry to hear about your other tank though.



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Post InfoPosted 04-Mar-2007 17:34Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Hi Matty, thanks for stopping by

And thanks for the nice compliment About the other tank - it's ok now, except for annubia.

I haven't seen an update from your tanks in a little while. Anything much happening? I read in one of LF's log that you are still having bad luck with fish, so I was sad to read that. Hope things pick up soon.

Cheers
TW
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mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
No, nothing really happening there. I've been too busy with school and life. I wanted to get it nice again, but haven't gotten to it. I'm just giving it minimal care. The few fish left get fed sparingly, the plants get trimmed and the water gets changed when I can, been about a month on that. Don't see a need for it though.

Thanks for asking, maybe next week (spring break) will see some action.

Oh, and I talked to one of the neighbors in the same building and he's having very similar problems with his fish. I might try to start mixing with 50% RO/DI on water changes if maybe the tap water is a problem.



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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2007 01:05Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
"Spring Break?" You actually get a break? Heck every
Spring Break I had, found me out in the boonies somewhere
chasing rock formations and writing a thesis on them.
Of course the paper was due the first day of class after
the resumption of classes so there was no putting it off.
Never did get to go to Florida, but then Susan probably
would have had something to say about that too. Come to
think of it.. I could have done one on Karst Topography
and researched it in FL. Durn!
Lucky...
Frank


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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2007 01:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Fl. has good Karst Topography? That would be pretty cool to study. Sinkholes, caves, underground rivers...pretty sweet.

I'm not going to fully enjoy my spring break in Florida or anything like that. but I do get a week off, and though I have work to do, no way I'm going to spend the whole break doing work. I'll play catch up with my two tanks and sleep in good. Can't really afford florida anyways.



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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2007 02:44Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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I'm trying to show the pearling on my riccia tonight (and it's not water change night - that's tomorrow). The little bubbles are all over it - too bad the pics don't show it. I wonder if anyone other than me can see it, but it is there (really it is)

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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2007 16:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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another try. Hmmm, it's no better either

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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2007 16:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Was trying not to change much until the new tank, but the blyxa had multiplied so much & was shading itself. To get to the light, it had started to lift itself out of the substrate. I removed most of the blyxa, so I could separate the new plants & I find that from the one single plant I bought, I have around 30 now. to make room for them, the creeping wisteria had to go - as it was positioned in one of the better areas for light in the tank.

It is getting a little crowded in there (plant wise) but I hope not to have to throw much out, as I will need extra plants for the slightly bigger floor plate of the new tank.

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TW
Post InfoPosted 14-Mar-2007 15:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I see a fwe bubbles there Robyn. Very nice. I love all youse guys with your pearling riccia. Somebody needs to get you a little better camera. Wouldn't even have to be much$$ just a decent p and s.



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Post InfoPosted 14-Mar-2007 17:22Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Here is the latest pic & I'm embarrassed to see that I should have cleaned the glass first. The riccia is looking a bit blunt & short, but that because I trimmed it last night. the 4 rocks at the front are all new and the ricca was harvested from other rocks, which are now further back and not visible in this picture.

Still in holding mode in this tank, as it's closure is getting closer now. Replacement tank has been ordered.

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TW
Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2007 16:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Like most other people, I assume, I first looked at the picture and was in shock



I thought you had a huge algae outbreak on the right side, but I am glad to read that this is on your glass

The tank looks very nice though,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2007 19:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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thought you had a huge algae outbreak on the right side, but I am glad to read that this is on your glass
I got tired & lazy at the end of Wednesday nights water change. After cleaning the 20G & then the discovery of eggs in 23G slowed the night down somewhat. Being a hopeless fish netter, everything had to be removed from the tank so I could net those pesky krib juveniles for removal. Whether it is their extreme youth, I don't know. But they were just so darn fast & much quicker darters than any other fish I've had to catch. By the time I made it to the 43G, I was tired and so I did little other than water change & harvest riccia (which couldn't wait - it was about to break free and float).

Having said that, I am getting black algae (grows in little tuffs) as well as algae on some anubia leaves. It scares me a little, as what will happen when all goes to my new tank with the much stronger light.

Oh well, time will tell I guess.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2007 00:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Where do you get the black algae (which I assume is BBA, as your description seems to fit)? Quite a few people I know have it, including myself. For most of us, it grows in areas of higher water flow and overall seems not to invade a tank too fast. I have on a few occasions "spot-treaded" the tank (40G) with Excel, and somehow that worked wonders. It was a different process than what I used to do in the past. I simply took a dropper and sucked up about 3ml of Excel. Then, while doing a water change (as that is the time when I turn off the filter, aka no current in the tank) and the water is at the low point, just before refilling, I squirt the dropper into the BBA slowly (that part was still submersed, not above the water line). And that was it! I could not believe myself how effective it was, within two days the BBA turned red and on the following weekend it was gone (from that spot, of course, I still have some in other spots).

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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2007 13:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the BBA Excel trip LF. I tried it here & in the 23G, where the algae was much worse - complete with long & flowing green hair algae. This tip worked really well on both types of algae.

By accident, this tank has been re organised slightly on the right hand side. To remove my Apisto Blue Steels, I had to take all the wood & rocks out of the tank & the right hand side didn't go back together quite they way it was. The anubia is now more visible. I only put back a small portion of the chain sword & only one of the Java Ferns. The Java will probably be a little slower to grow back but the chain sword tends to take over very quickly - so it shouldn't be long for re-growth there. It's not very different, but for a comparison, the before shot is a few posts further up.

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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2007 15:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here's the reason for the Blue Steel's removal.

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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2007 15:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here's the female, plus a shot of my Blyxa. I had my first floating Blyxa last week, but being lazy, I left it floating for a quite a few days. It grew some roots while floating and has now been successfully replanted.

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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2007 15:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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here's the male.

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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2007 15:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very nice Robyn,

That's a double or triple red, right?

The tank looks ok, but somehow, with it being less planted (until it regrows), I find the red rocks too red and too much visible. And it seems like they need a hair cut as well .

In the last shot there were 4 Riccia tops, now there are 3 larger ones. What happened to #4?

Glad the Excel worked, now keep an eye open for re-occurence.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-May-2007 15:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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That's a double or triple red, right?
Sold as a double, but there is some red on dorsal, tail & anal fin. Not that much on the anal - but it is there. Not quite as pretty a pattern of red as my previous, but this one's dorsal fins are more spikey so are impressive that way (doesn't show in my pic). First time I've had a male display to his girl too (it's always the other way around) but he definitely flairs, plus shimmies at her too. I don't expect eggs or fry to survive in this tank.

I agree with all your criticisims and it's the same old story that I don't feel like doing all that much to this tank as it's will be pulled down shortly. My new tank is probably ready for delivery now (I've been away a few days). Before I set it up, I've got to get a tradesman out to reinforce my cupboards - so that will be another delay.

All ricca rocks are still there - maybe too low or towards the back - but they're there.

I soon have to plan planting of the new tank - but will be limited by my large wood /fern - takes up a lot of space. Thinking about which red plant (finally a red plant) I will grow. I have no idea how to run C02 off a cannister, so later I will be asking for advice. I have one of those glass tulip things to use for C02 in the new tank - another mystery.

So with all these thoughts, I haven't been too excited about redesigning this tank.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-May-2007 00:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Makes sense Robyn. A red plant, as in a tall stem red plant? I do like my Alterhanthera reineckii quite a bit. I have a shot of my street from today, but given that I don't update my weekly event until tomorrow I can show it here as well.

And we will worry about the CO2 whenever you are ready for it, but what is that tulip thing you speak of? A glass diffuser?

Ingo

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Alterhanthera reineckii



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Post InfoPosted 28-May-2007 01:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Robyn,

I think the tank looks good. I'm still amazed at how full the Blyxa is growing with only 1.6 wpg. I forget, how deep is your tank? I assume there is a pretty good root system on them. I could never get a good root system going on mine. I'm thinking it might be the light penetration of the 6700k cf bulbs.



My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 29-May-2007 13:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Alterhanthera reineckii
Very nice plant. I will see if I can find it. Probably more chance on line, than in store. Fingers crossed.
what is that tulip thing you speak of? A glass diffuser
Yes, the glass diffuser. I got this one on ebay as part of a spare C02 system purchase I made. I never set up the spare system (using gas bottle as one of 3 that I rotate on this tank) so the glass diffuser is waiting for the new tank. I have no clue how to run C02 through it or the cannister. I'll get serious & ask for help later though - no point now when I'm not ready to do it - dopey me will just forget

Hi tetratech - thanks for popping in.
I'm still amazed at how full the Blyxa is growing with only 1.6 wpg.
Me too. Makes me wonder if I'm doing the right thing with the new tank plants (high light & eco complete). It might bring me red crinkled blyxa that floats & won't stay rooted as well as cory with damaged barbels. I put the success of the blyxa and the ricca down to C02, but I have ricca in my low tech tank (low light, no C02) and my ricca is thriving there too.


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 30-May-2007 12:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
I didn't think I'd post again in this tank, before closing it down. But, as I bought a new discus, I thought I just might as well. He is meant to a Marlborough Red, but he is much more yellow than others I googled on the net. Maybe this means he is a poor specimen - but I think he's pretty anyway. I've ordered 2 friends for him. This tank will shut down shortly & all will move into a 89G (339 L). For this reason, I haven't bothered too much about the actual scape at moment.



Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 19-Jun-2007 15:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Robyn I'm very jealous. I've always put the scape before the fish, but I do have a soft spot for Discus. Maybe one day. That is a beautiful fish and I'm sure she/he will do well in the 89G.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 19-Jun-2007 15:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I am looking in my Christal Ball and I see "many many water changes for Robyn"

Looking nice Robyn, maybe he/she will color up soon. About adding two buddies: could this cause conflicts if two of them pair up?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Jun-2007 16:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I am looking in my Christal Ball and I see "many many water changes for Robyn

Yes I do see that in Robyn's future as well as other things including temp, filtration and algae control.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 19-Jun-2007 18:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the replies Ingo & Jeff

About adding two buddies: could this cause conflicts if two of them pair up?
I visit another forum specifically dedicated to Discus. It has a small sub forum on apistos, which is what drew me to their site. Now I have a discus, I've popped into the main discus forum for advice. They tell me I need a minimum of 3 discus (schooling fish). 2 might cause aggression, but 3 should be ok (I hope). I will have to watch what happens with a pairing though.
maybe he/she will color up soon
You know my bad photo's Ingo. He/she is actually very pretty as is. A beautiful brilliant yellow colour (think of the SW fish - the Yellow Tang), with sort of a dusting of red over the yellow body. More red towards the body outline. Fins are red with black. Those on the the discus forum told me he looks young & should get more red as he matures. But I hope not - I like him better this way.
Yes I do see that in Robyn's future as well as other things including temp, filtration and algae control.
Well, I'll have to see how the water changes go. Some on the discus forum do small changes twice a week, but a lot also just do the weekly change. For the moment, I'll stick with the weekly, & see how it goes. I'm aware I might have to up it. The new filter will be a eheim Pro II 2028, so I hope that will be enough. There will be a 25W UV filter - so I hope that helps with algae & disease.

Tetratech - why do you particulary see algae issues. Is there something about discus & increased algae???

As far as temp goes, below is my stock list & temps as per profiles here on FP:-

Discus 28-31C
Boesmani Rainbow 27-30C
Platy 18-25C
Harlequin Rasbora 22-25C
Sterbai Cory 21-26C
Apistogramma 23C-29C (varies depending on which apisto you're looking at)

I guess the ones to worry about are the sterbai, platy & rasboras. I will have to watch them. I have set the temp to 28C for the moment.

BTW, Jeff. I received my petrified wood yesterday. A bit disappointed with the amount. I was the winning bidder on 6 sep auctions, but only received 5 rocks. I've sent a query asking why. Maybe, he went by the total weight of my winning bid. I'll take a pic of them later to see what you think.

Thanks again for popping in.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2007 00:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Tetratech - why do you particulary see algae issues. Is there something about discus & increased algae???
All I mean is that Discus are meaty fish as are other cichlids and they have more waste than smaller tetras, so naturally there is more potential algae problems if filtration and lights aren't in check.

Looking forward to seeing your petrified wood. BTW Don't let us two Geezers (LF and Me) scare you with the Discus. It's all good and I'm sure you will do fine with them. I would really like to have some myself. There is a store not to far from me (Aqua Hut) that sells a wide variety of Discus at unbelivably low prices. As I said maybe one day.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2007 01:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Don't let us two Geezers (LF and Me) scare you with the Discus.



So true, I am just jealous

No really, there are a few more challenges involved when having discus, as mentioned above, but I have no doubt that you will be able to handle it.

About the water conditions/changes: As you have a tendency to attempt breeding (see your Apistos), water conditions should be super.

One thing we have not talked about is the stress on plants in heigher temperatures. I know one guy who was able to grow all kinds of stuff, loads of lights on his tank, the reddest and fullest macandras (for example) the world has ever seen. All went downhill with the discuss, the temp was just to high for the plants to thrive. I don't know too many details, but it may be worthwhile researching which plants do well in 82F ++ (which is about 28C, right? ).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2007 13:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn , Thats a very beautifull looking fish , and I think you are right to keep them in odd numbers . Tends to spread any aggression out.
Are you getting 1 Male and 2 females ? Any thoughts of trying to breed them ?

Hope the new tank goes well for you as well .
Garry
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Ooohhhh, a discus in a planted tank I'm going to be watching this thread closely now to see how it works out with you. My plans are that after I get back from my summer vacation (1 month tour down the eastcoast of the USA) I'll tear my big tank apart and rebuild it into a planted Discus tank I've wanted to keep Discus all my aquarium life and always have been a bit afraid of them but since my wife has laid her eyes on a couple she's been urging me to get them.

As for the temperature, my plants have been growing fine at 28 degrees Celsius, going much higher than that slowly becomes problematic and growth slows down a bit and you'll have a good time to keep algae away. In any case, I really want you to succeed with this
Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2007 15:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by catdancer
Robyn:

Congrats on the discus! Don't worry too much about water changes and the alleged sensitivity of these fish. If you stick to your good maintenance schedule they will be fine. I was scared when I got my first discus and was constantly hovering over the tank with test kits and buckets to perform water changes. I perform now weekly water changes as I did before and the discus are doing extremely well. In fact, I find them less sensitive than my Cories

The biggest 'problem' might arise from feeding but this is also entirely dependent on the type of food you provide. I feed some pellets that the fish were raised on by the breeder and a variety of frozen foods (a special discus formula, blood worms, glass worms, brine shrimp). If you do not rinse the thawed food you will get some gunk in your tank, so keep that in mind. Occassionally I feed beef heart and THAT is an unbelievable mess which impacts water quality.

you are going to shut down this tank entirely? You are not suffering from MTS?

I am looking forward to read about your new tank.
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mattyboombatty
 
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I agree about the sensitivity of discus. We have quite a few in the store that live comfortably in hard water and weekly water changes. Wild caught discus might be a separate story though, but no worrie there for you. With the large plant mass, I'm sure you'll still have to add nitrates. Lovely fish BTW.

The tank looks great, I can't wait to see the new setup.



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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2007 00:28Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wow, lots of visitors. Thanks y'all for popping in
So true, I am just jealous
Ah, but I know you're not. Was almost too scared to show you, as I know "Big Fish" aren't your thing Whilst I'd love discus fry LF, this is the community tank & never one baby has survied that tank. If it happened, good - but I doubt it. Not planning any special action to encourage breeding.

I hope the temp for my plants (at least my current plants) should be fine. Our summer heat sends my tanks up to 30C. With the aid of small fans, I can get it down to 28C. This tank is on the warmest side of the house, so it always creeps the highest. Of course in the new tank, I want to try a red plant, so I'll be disappointed if it won't grow in a discus tank.

Dr. Bonke, you're getting discus too. For some reason, I thought you had them already.
growing fine at 28 degrees Celsius, going much higher than that slowly becomes problematic and growth slows down a bit and you'll have a good time to keep algae away
Are you able to pls give me a bit of extra info on what you mean re "problematic" and "good time to keep algae away". The more tips I can get on the get go, the better.

Hi catdancer - welcome to my log. I'd been reading up on this beefheart stuff, found recipes & was about to rush out & buy the meat mincer. But you only sometimes feed beefheart & your discus are happy? If it's so messy & they're fine without it, I'd rather keep things simple. Do you think they need it? I feed a mixture of spectrum, fresh & frozen brineshrimp & frozen bloodworms. I'm always supper fussy about rinsing the frozen food.
you are going to shut down this tank entirely? You are not suffering from MTS?
Not sure that's true I have a total of 3 tanks (if you don't count 2 betta tanks & hubby's marine). If it was up to me, this tank would not shut down, but hubby only lets me go so far. The trade off to get 2 larger tanks was a firm promise to shut down 2 current tanks. The other tank I planning is 4ft African.

After being told on a discus forum I need a min of 3 discus, 2 new ones are acclimatising now. The old boy is up saying hello to his new mates in the bag. Hope they'll be mates (as in buddies).

Thanks for comments Matty. Glad to hear your LFS finds them not too sensitive. I can't wait for the new setup either - having trouble finding someone to fix my cupboard first. Now that you've brought up the subject of adding nitrates .....

Does anyone think I need to alter my fert schedule, with 3 discus in there. I currently dose:-

1/2tspn KN03 & 1/16 tspn KH2P04 & 1/16 tspn K2S04 - 3 times a week
10ml flourish & 4ml Flourish iron - 3 times a week

Tetratech, I'll post pics of the petrified wood later.

That's it for now.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2007 10:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
The new guys have been in the tank a couple of hours now. I briefly turned the lights on to get pics. They have coloured up 100% from when I first saw them - this one in particular. Much redder than the original fish. This one is out & about, but the other one is hiding in the back, so I hope he'll be okay. No pics of the hiding one yet.



This shot show the original, who is much less red. I though he was pretty until I saw this one. There is a bit of chasing by the original one against this one - but not constant so I hope it sorts out. More concerned about the one who is hiding.


Below are the pieces of petrified wood I bought on ebay for the new setup.


That's it for now.

Cheers
TW
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I will say more later, but for now I only have time for a quick entry (phone conference coming up):

the last piece of wood looks like a bone that a dog had chewed up

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2007 15:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
Those sure look like tiny pieces of wood TW. They must
be selling the chips by the pound.

Beautiful fish TW and great looking tank!
Frank


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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2007 16:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Robyn,

I don't think you'll have to worry too much, but I can explain a bit more about the trouble I meant. Last year I installed a couple of extra T5 lamps in my tank (2x 55w) and didn't really give it much extra thought. The first day my plants were pearling like never before and I was thought I had a winner, but then within a few days that stopped and growth seemed to halt. At that point also quite a few different kinds of algae started growing rather excessively. I watched that for about a week or so, to see whether there would be improvement and then during the water change I thought the awater was kinda warm. I then checked the thermometer and it turned out to be nearly 33 degrees Celsius. That was clearly too high (I was surprised that none of my fish had died). Since then I've installed some ventilators to get the heat out of the hood, and that keeps the temperature at about 27-28. With proper care - meaning weekly water changes and fertilization - the plants grow really well (right now my big tank is a bit of a mess since I am leaving for a month vacation and have switched off CO2 and stopped fertizing).

You should be just fine
Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2007 18:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by catdancer
Hi catdancer - welcome to my log. I'd been reading up on this beefheart stuff, found recipes & was about to rush out & buy the meat mincer. But you only sometimes feed beefheart & your discus are happy? If it's so messy & they're fine without it, I'd rather keep things simple. Do you think they need it?


My pleasure, you will see me more often and I hope that you will visit my log (to be posted soon) as well. My discus are extremely happy judged by their behaviour. Not shy at all, quite the opposite and always attacking food! I think the beef heart recipes and the legend that discus need this food in order to thrive originates from the earlier ages of discus keeping when commercial foods were not such high quality and frozen, fortefied foods not readily available. Look at it this way: what are the chances that a discus in the wild will dine on a cow? This type of food satisfied the need for high protein and very little fat. All my frozen foods are fortefied (Hikari) with vitamins to ensure all nutritional requirements are met. A lot of breeders in my club feed most of the time pellets and occassionally frozen food. Some never ever beef heart because it is so messy. BTW - my discus don't even like it. What I always pay attention to is that my fish get some veggie components with their diet - also frozen. So, if you are into preparing your own food, well, go for it, but you really don't have to IMHO.

The new guy looks beautiful. How big is this discus already? I would not worry about the one hiding - it might take this one a bit to adjust to the new environment, probably they were raised in bare bottom tanks only with lots of other discus. It was very apparent that mine had no clue about plants, pretty funny to watch them doing their first excursions of the tank!

glad to hear that you are also MTS ... I always enjoy hearing that others suffer the same affliction!

And no, the rock does not look like a chewed on bone more like an attempt at wood working! *rofl
Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2007 20:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Hi Ingo - - yeah I can see it, but a riccia cap should take care of that.

Hi Frank - Thanks for tank & fish compliment They're smaller than I thought & yes, they were being sold by the pound. This pic gives a better guage of size - it's taken dry, whereas the pics yesterday were taken with the wood wet. Not sure how if or how I'll use them. Hoping to get Jeff's opinion, as he is the petrified wood expert. (Jeff, if you do pop in, pls scroll backwards where there are individual shots of the wood)


Hi Dr Bonke. Thanks for the info. My new tank won't have a hood, so hopefully I won't get the same problem when I up my lighting to compact PC's. I never did find any light fittings here in Aus that have those fans I hear some of you talk about. I'm tempted to not use the glass lids on the new tank at all.

Hi catdancer. Let us know when your log is up (in case I miss it). I think I will give the beef heart recipe a miss for the time being. Glad we spoke. I use hikari vitamin enriched frozen foods too. I haven't seen the veggie one - what is it called? They were all soled as 8cm, but I think the first guy is smaller & the new ones are larger - but none larger than 8cm.

Today, they are hanging around together like the 3 amigos, & I hope it stays that way. They have settled in a lot better than the 1st one did on his own. They all came out to eat straight away - no hiding. Now, prepare to be bored as I have taken a few shots. catdancer, as a discus owner, I'm wondering if you can tell the sex by any of the pics. I don't really care, but I'm just curious, is all.


That's it for now

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2007 14:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I believe you will be just fine with your round fish. The discus at my local store get water changes about once a week dependent on my work schedule. Our water is liquid rock with a pH of about 8. The discus are fine with this. I know some people that have spawning discus is similar water.

As for food. See if you can get your hands on live black worms. Your discus will go nuts for them!



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Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2007 14:39Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Just a guess but I think the light one and the dark one are Males. They seem to have longer fins. They are still young though so it will be hard to tell. I am sure someone out there can help you out though.

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Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2007 14:44Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Hi Wingsdlc

Thanks for the visit & the thoughts on sexing them. How old do you think they are?

My C02 takes care of the pH & my water is soft - but I do wonder about the spike in pH I get if my C02 runs out just after I leave for work. When that happens, in the course of the day it can rise from 6.5 to nearly 7.5pH.

Thanks for the live black worm tip. Yes, I can get my hands on them - but I thought they were the ones that can bring in parasites. Or am I thinking of something else?

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2007 14:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by wingsdlc
but I thought they were the ones that can bring in parasites
You know I am not so sure about that. I guess they could... I have never seen any issues from the ones at work but who knows.

How old do you think they are?
Not really the guy to ask.

PM Bob Wesolowski

He is good with discus.

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Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2007 15:17Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by catdancer
Hi Robyn:

Great pictures of your discus and what a nice tank! I am looking forward to follow your new set up. As for my log - as soon as I have this paper out.

Food: I am experimenting with veggie food as I have not found one yet that contains a good mix! One that is available in frozen form is "Cichlid delight" from San Francisco Brand and it contains Spirulina, Turkey heart (here we go ...) and some othe ingredients. I am cutting the cubes into tiny pieces as the meat sticks together making the lumps too big for the fish. Another one I have now (recommended by my LFS) is by Formula Two and it is strictly veggie - I mix it with Bloodworms.

As for sexing discus, I am not aware that it is actually possible to do so when not spawning as the genital papillae is not visible. Fins are IMHO no indicator as they vary greatly from strain to strain - there are plenty of high fin varieties out there. My fish don't get live food - too much to worry about re parasites and other 'silent travelers' that might get introduced into the tank, but that is me!
Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2007 15:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
The cautions about plants and increased temperatures are
valid. Arizona Gardens has a "Package" of plants that they
recommend for specifically for Discus tanks.
Here is the link:
http://www.azgardens.com/habitats_discus.php

I'd write down the names, and quantities of the various
plants and either purchase a package of them for your
tank, or look for them through other sources. The thing
is, this lists the plants and quantities for your size
tank, and for the temperatures that you will be running.
It could help save you some headaches later on.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2007 15:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I have not really noticed any harm done to my plants with high temps. We do not run AC in our house and it has gotten up to around 90 inside. I know its warmer than the tank should really get but nothing has gone into melt down.

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2007 15:40Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn , Glad to here that all is well with these beautifull fellas . They look magnificent . I'm sure they will bring you hours of enjoyment .

I look forward to learning more about Discus from your log . Always been afraid to have a go at them due to their delicate reputation .

Are you planning any tank mates in the new tank .?

Garry
Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2007 16:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn,

Wow, what can I say those Discus are beautiful. I'm seeing some in my future

Actually the rocks look pretty good and interesting. You have to kinda play with them and stick him into the substrate. That one that Ingo described as a chewed-up dog bone, could actually look very interesting in the foreground possibily buried under substrate at the low point. But as I said you have to kinda move them around and see what appeals to you and works with your setup.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2007 18:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The only problem I see is that all the attention will be taken from your hard work with the plants and be on the discus instead.

What, this is the planted forum right.... Really beautiful discus Robyn. Good luck with them.

I agree with the blackworm idea the ones in our store love them. I've never heard much about parasites with them either. Just be careful with the feedings....I know how slow discus are to realize there's food in front of their face and blackworms can drown.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Jun-2007 04:58Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Wings, It must only be in Aus that blackworms have this reputation - though catdancer also says no live food for her tanks due to "parasites & silent travellers". I haven't pm'd Bob Wesolowski about the age, but I will. Thanks for the tip.

Hi Catdancer - thanks for heads-up on food. I haven't seen all the frozen foods you mention, though we get hikari. So far, they have pretty much ignored all food except frozen bloodworms. I hope to get them eating Spectrum soon - but no luck so far.

Hi Frank - thanks for the link. I'll keep just in case. Fairly confident I'll be ok though. Like Wings, in summer my tanks sit naturally at 28/ 29C & all plants grow like mad & no algae issues. This may change with the higher lights I plan. A group of plant nerds on a discus forum agreed no issues if temp kept as above. Still, it's good to be forewarned & have a list of plants, just in case. I'm determined to have at least 1 red plant - as that's the whole reason for this tanks impending demise (so I can fit stronger lights - not possible in this lousy tank). Not as many choices here for red plants as you have in US. More on my choices later, when I'm ready to purchase.

Garry - thanks for visit & fish complements. What I've been hearing is these guys aren't as sensitive as we've been led to believe. Hope so anyway. Hope I manage to give them a long & happy life. Tankmates - well, the apistos will move into a divided breeding tank. I love my 2 B.Rainbows, but think they're too boisterous for discus, so may have to go. They're such great mates & I love them too, so torn what to do. Hate to think of them in either a bare LFS tank or in anyone else's unsuitable tank. Might ask LFS if they'd be prepared to put them in their planted display tank - not sure of my chances. The harley rasboras have always been a fav of mine. They seem to be doing well here - but temp is too high according to their profile. Given that my tank reaches high temps in summer anyway, it may not be such a problem. Undecided what I should do with them. I've been told cardinals are good with discus. The otos will tfr over & I think I have room for 3 more discus, using calculations discus forum gave me for stocking (1 adult discus per 45litres). Maybe I might up the cory sterbai's or go with the false juli, like Ingo. There's a lone platy in current tank, so I he'll transfer across too. That's it for fish. Pretty much know what I like now.

Hi tetratech - thanks for discus compliment. Glad you like the rocks too. Glad dog/bone rocks passed muster. What about rock in 1st pic - that's my fav. Wonder if I should ask the guy to pick out some similar to dog/bone & 1st pic - but slightly bigger ?? Not sure how many I'll need for new setup. I'm stuck using the windelov wood & that takes up a large piece of real estate (too much).
What, this is the planted forum right
Hi matty - yeah I know. I'll be back on track with plants (& fish) once I start new setup. Yes - discus are slow to realise food is there (one of the reasons the b.rainbows might have to go). Doesn't matter how many different spots I drop in the food so the discus get some, those rainbows are everywhere & get there first. They must have food radar

Anyway - that's enough for now.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 26-Jun-2007 06:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Ingo

It's not quite the same name as yours, nor quite as pretty. Yours is called "Alterhanthera reineckii". Is this the same plant, or another related plant? http://www.aquaticdreams.com.au/product.asp?ProductID=507 Plant is referred to as "Telanthera" in the main heading, but in the descriptive text it's referred to as a Alternathera species, which is close to your spelling.

Edit: Ok - think I got it now. Seems it's also known as Red Temple. http://www.aquariumsuppliesaustralia.com.au/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=861

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 26-Jun-2007 09:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn , Sounds like you've got your tankmates figured out pretty well . I tend to agree with you on the Rainbows .
The Harleys are great aren't they gotta love them .

I've become very partial to a lot of other Tetra types of recent times. Rummynoses in particular are a lot of fun as well as Columbians and Bleeding Hearts .
I know some people think that some of the bigger Tetras are a little nippy but I haven't found that .

Anyway just a couple of thoughts . Can't wait to see the new tank take shape .

Enjoy
Garry
Post InfoPosted 26-Jun-2007 11:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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some of the bigger Tetras are a little nippy but I haven't found that
Sorry a head of time about the little side track...

Speaking of nippy tetras... Yesterday at work I was cleaning tanks and got bit about 110 times by the blind cave tetras. Crazy little nippy fish! Good thing they are just little fish unlike the piranhas.

discus are slow to realise food is there
They might be a little slower than some other fish but our little discus at work are pigs!

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jun-2007 15:02Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Still not planning to change my water changing routine, unless I hit problems with the discus. But... just so I know what to do in case I have to. Would I need to make changes to the EI fert routine when doing 2 x 25% (or 2 x 50%) changes instead of 1 x 50%? Or, would I still keep to the same schedule & just ignore the increased frequency of water changes?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 27-Jun-2007 12:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by wingsdlc
Still not planning to change my water changing routine, unless I hit problems with the discus. But... just so I know what to do in case I have to. Would I need to make changes to the EI fert routine when doing 2 x 25% (or 2 x 50%) changes instead of 1 x 50%? Or, would I still keep to the same schedule & just ignore the increased frequency of water changes?
If you do end up doing the 2 x 25% or 2 x 50% that will probably mess with your EI a bit.

I would guess you could end up doing something like this:


60 – 80 Gallon Aquariums
Day one:
50% water change
+/- 3/4 tsp KN03
+/- 3/16 tsp KH2P04

Day two:
+/- ¼ tsp (15ml) Trace

Day three:
day off

Day four:
50% water change
+/- 3/4 tsp KN03
+/- 3/16 tsp KH2P04

Day five:
+/- ¼ tsp (15ml) Trace

Day six:
+/- 3/4 tsp KN03
+/- 3/16 tsp KH2P04

Day seven:
day off

Start over....
Just my guess. I am sure others will have better ideas..

When dosing also remember that you are going to have some fish with much higher waste than tetras or other small fish.

Also watch your Discus for stress after dosing ferts. They may not be used to the chemicals and it could stress them out. I have ran into that with the discus at work.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Jun-2007 14:49Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn:

How is it going with your discus? Did they start eating other types of food than bloodworms?
Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2007 05:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Thanks Wings, I'll keep that info just in case I need it.

Any other thoughts would still be appreciated.

Hi catdancer - not really. Won't eat the spectrum. One of them joined in on mystis shrimp (???spelling) but passed it up tonight. I still think it's the B.Rainbows. I'm going to have to try to catch them on the weekend - but that will probably stress the discus as well, given that I usually have to pull the tank apart to catch a fish.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2007 13:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Seems to be a more general problem and related to what the fish were fed by the breeder. My discus come from different sources and I had also considerable problems to wean them of bloodworms, which is still a delicacy for them. Brine shrimp was the next food of choice - and Tetra Color Bits. This granule type food is the staple in the diet of all the breeders in my club, but even the discus that I got from Europe took it immediately.

good luck
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Have decided to gradually over the next little while to gradually increase the discus to 6, which I think will be fully stocked for the new tank (if they were adults). As juveniles, they are fine in this tank.

Here is discus no. 4 for the tank, still in the plastic bag. I think is probably isn't the best looking specimen, because the rim around his eye isn't fully red. But best for me to start off with the less expensive fellows anyway. He is called a Fire Ruby, according to LFS.

I also removed the B.Rainbow & hope it will help the others feel more confident to eat.

I'm beginning to be tempted to change my plans for a 4ft African tank into another hi-tech planted, but with discus. Love these fish

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 29-Jun-2007 15:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nice new Discus. I like the color pattern that it has.

It really looks like someone has the round fish bug!

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Post InfoPosted 29-Jun-2007 16:05Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Hi Wings, yes I have it bad After reading everything I could find on-line & in hard books, I think I'm best to get them all around the same size & not let leave too long a gap in between additions - so the latecomers aren't picked on, due to being "Johnnie come lately's". I can't wait to see him once the lights are turned on - but that won't be until tomorrow.He was quite cheap too (might be because of his eye not having the solid red coloured ring). That's okay by me, though. So far, all seems friendly in there.

Also picked up a pair of Apistogramma Hongsloi Form II for another tank.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 29-Jun-2007 16:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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http://www.amtra.de/images/apistogrammatorf0903_550.jpg
If yours looks like this then that is a sweet fish!

Adding fish about the same size is a good rule to play by.

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Post InfoPosted 29-Jun-2007 19:08Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Wings - yes that's him. Was a day to late to get a pair of Apistogramma sp.Viejita Form II. Is that the same as LF's? LFS imported a batch of german bred & some wild apistos & advertised them on a local fish forum here. Apistos only released from quarantine on Wednesday & each fish was still in it's individual jar from the breeder (so at least I know no chance of mixing up the pairs by LFS). By the time I got to the shop on Friday afternoon, I got the 2nd last pair of the imports. Only thing left now is a pair of apisto elizabethae "Super red". These fish just flew (swam) out the door.

Oops, forgot to mention I also got a Penang Eruption Discus too.

Thanks for the link to the fish Wings.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 30-Jun-2007 06:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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My old hongsloi:




Sure miss that guy. I missed an infected wound on him when I purchased him, it just got worse until he died. Cool fish though, good luck with 'im.



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Post InfoPosted 30-Jun-2007 21:01Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wow Robyn , you have got the Discus thing bad . Seriously , lovely looking fish and cheap is good as long as you like the look . Good move to remove the rainbows I think .
Look forward to some Photos of the new one .

Enjoy
Garry
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Matty, that is a nice looking fish, sorry to hear he didn't last to long for you. Thanks for popping in Countryfish . Anyway, here are the latest pics of new residents. Unfortunately the most colourful red melon (one of the originals) seem to be the bully of the bunch & is picking on the new comers.

The Penang Eruption leads the Fire Ruby on a Tank Tour. Fire Ruby looks cranky to be at the end of the line.

Penang Eruption on a lone circuit


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 01-Jul-2007 13:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by catdancer
Again, very beautiful fish and Fire Ruby does look cranky in the picture! What is a Penang eruption? I have not heard of this strain before, it certainly looks intersting, a bit like a snakeskin.

And there is always a bully, maybe I should send my Blue Diamond to meet with your Red Melon so he/she can get a taste of the same medicine! You have 5 discus now, correct? Is this the number you want to have or are you planning to add some more?
Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2007 04:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
hi Catdancer, thanks for popping in
What is a Penang eruption?
Can only guess that it is the name a breeder has given to his creation of a new strain.
have not heard of this strain before
Well, I haven't heard of any of the strains before now Yes I have 5 now. I intend to have 6 by the time I'm done. I might trade in one of the red melons, for a different strain - just to add to the variety in the tank.

Cheers
TW
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Countryfish
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Robyn, Again thats a very nice fish . Hope they are all getting on well . Hows the new tank coming on ? Any news ?

Garry
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Robyn;

a suggstion re veggie food for discus I got from a knowledgeable sales person: Hikari brine shrimp with spirulina! the shrimp were fed spirulina so the veggies come as a nice 'wrap' inside the shrimp. Plus the food is fortified with additional vitamins
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I had always wondered what that food was all about. I thought it was a mix of the two foods. I guess not. Funny thing is I have been doing much the same with feeder shrimp for fish that need them at work.

I know there are also veggie pellets you might be able to get them to eat.

Right now are they still on Blood Worms alone?

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wow really pretty fish TW they look great, look forward to your new log!
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TW
 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Thanks y'all for popping in

Hi catdancer, I have bought (but not yet opened) the Hikari Spirulina brine shrimp. Wings, no longer just the brine shrimp. I decided to make up a batch of discus hamburger & followed a recipe on the discus forum I visit. Here's the ingredients, in case you're interested:-

1kg beefheart, thoroughly trimmed of any fat and sinew
1/2 kg prawns, the bright orangey red ones
1/2 kg green prawns, shelled and de veined
1/2 kg of any white ocean fish fillets (don't use fresh water fish)
1/2 kg Salmon (yes I know, but your fish are worth it)
1/2 cup frozen green peas
1/2 cup cooked carrot
1 heaped teaspoon of Spirulina powder for every 2kg of mixture
1/4 cup of minced garlic
Gelatin dissolved in boiling water, to bind it all together

Instructions said to run each ingredient through a mincer twice, but I found a food processor did a really good job. It then goes into a big bowl, where it's mixed by hand (wearing gloves, or you'll have green hands) for about 10 minutes. I put 3 teaspoonful of mixture into each zip lock bag, flatten them by hand, and lay on a tray to freeze flat. Because it's frozen in thin layers, you can snap off the amount you want to use. It made soooo much, I don't think I'll have to buy or make them more food for 12 months. One by one, they are all eating it. By that I mean, on 1st offering only one fish tried it & by now (3 days later) all but 1 fish is loving it. I am worried about the one not eating it, so I will offer blood worm tonight to see if he is just not eating as it's a strange food to him, or because he might be sick.
Hows the new tank coming on ? Any news ?
Well, I popped along to Bunnings hardware today, to look into the DIY options. I think I have a plan now for how to do it myself, but I need to enlist hubby's help & I don't know how long it will take to sell him on the idea of being my tradesman. Here's what I have to convince him to do:-

cut hole in the false bottom of the cupboard in 4 places (one in each corner of cupboard)

one of these will go into each hole, standing vertically as shown (although not leaning over)


The bolt screws either up or down, so that the height can be adjusted (sort of a makeshift jack). Running horizontally on the cupboard ceiling will be a steel bar, which will rest on top of the screw shown in picture. The vertical screw will be tightened, so that the horizontal bar will held securely in place.

I think that will take care of the strengthening issues.

Next, I have to get him to cut out a section of the back wall of cupboard to allow filter hoses to make their way to the tank.

Next, I have to get him to cut a section out of the shelf, to allow the filter to fit in the cupboard.

So, that's my latest plan to move things along. Anyone see any problems?

Hi fandan, thanks for the fish compliment

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 08-Jul-2007 10:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Here are some fresh pictures.

The 1st shows the windelov in a rear tilted position, forming the cave behind the discus


Wasn't really happy with the above look, so it's now back in it's lower & flatter position. Notice - no cave now. I'd like to trim the windelov, but how does that work out? IMO the nicest part of the plant are the twisty bits at the end of each leaf. Any advice on how to trim & how it turns out would be appreciated. Everything is very overgrown & overcrowed as they wait patiently for the long awaited day of rehousing to larger quarters.


Last 2 shots for today. The blue discus is the same one as in the top shot. Depending upon the light, the angle & perhaps even his mood, his colour can change dramatically. Note the markings - it is the same fish. The colour change is true with the fish behind him. To the right is a shot of the same fish. Also, notice Mr & Mrs Cac checking each other out on the left.



Cheers
TW
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Robyn,

Looking very nice and green

About trimming the Windelov: It is just another form of fern, so trimming is done in the same fashion than common java fern. Now, there are multiple options of course:

- Simply cut off extending rhizomes to make the group smaller in surface size.
- Always good is to remove the various babies as they fill the group and make it very dense.
- Lastly, you can also take it all out, cut off newer pieces of the rhizomes (the extensions) and remove all old growth, and tie only the new growth back onto the wood. This way the whole group is smaller and refreshed.

Hope this helps,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Jul-2007 14:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by catdancer
Wow, you are such a good 'mother'

I really admire you for preparing your own food - I was toying with the idea a while ago but forgot about it as my fish do not like beefheart at all. What made you decide to do it after your initial reluctance? Not eating regular foods? I have to say I am tempted again ... and if thefish don't like it it sounds like a good cat food Is it messy/bad on the water quality? the commercially available preparations are.

Beautiful photos of the fish as always and I love the 'Windelow cave'.
Post InfoPosted 08-Jul-2007 17:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
hi catdancer
What made you decide to do it after your initial reluctance? Not eating regular foods?
The reason was because they were not eating anything other than bloodworm and I didn't think that was so good. I tried spectrum pellet, fresh & frozen brine shrimp, frozen beef heart mix. They turned their nose up at the lot. The ingredients in the mix I found seemed so healthy. It has lots of other good stuff, besides the beef heart.
Is it messy/bad on the water quality? the commercially available preparations are.
Time alone will tell, I suppose. I only put in a very little bit at a time & don't drop the next bit in, until it's gone. Yes, I do see some mess when they bite at it - but all the other greedy little fish (including the corys) also love the stuff, so I hope they will clean up the dregs. I always feed in the one spot, so any waste always drops there. If I find it's a problem, I will siphon out a few litres daily from around the feeding area.

If you do try it, I warn you it will be smelly when you are mixing it all up (strong garlic & fishy smell) & doesn't look that great (green from the spirulina). Not cheap to purchase, as lots of the ingredients are pricey (at least here - eg salmon, prawns) but when you see how much it makes & how long it will last you - I don't think it works out expensive after all.

Oh - and I was told it is very, very important that you cut out every single bit of sinew & fat from the beef heart. The carrot is to be cooked, but the peas are not. The peas are to be frozen. Apparently, all these finer points make a difference to the chewiness (& therefore digestibility) of the mix for the discus.

Let me know how you go, if you do make it.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 08-Jul-2007 18:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn , That sounds like a major undertaking . Hope hubby is willing and able .
Think I would baulk at all the work and tell you to go buy a new stand . Or is that your plan

I agree with Cat , you are a fantastic mother to go to all that trouble to feed the Discus . Well done .

I'm interested in the Windelov as well . Is it a version of Java Fern ?. Any info would be appreciated

Thanks
Garry
Post InfoPosted 09-Jul-2007 15:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Think I would baulk at all the work and tell you to go buy a new stand . Or is that your plan
No, I am stuck, with what I am stuck with. So you "get the picture" here is the current layout of the rumpus / fish room, showing the left, middle & right side views of the room.


As the furniture was custom made to fit the room - there is absolutely no room for a new cabinet. How easy it would be, if I could just do that.

Maybe my description of the work made it sound complicated - but I don't think it is. Plus I'm not fussy about neatness of the cuts (just want it done).

Here you see how hubby made a rather untidy looking opening for tank hoses. Basically just drilled holes through the wood next to each other - until the rough circle popped out.
Here he cut a hole in the shelf, so my C02 bottle cout fit in. This I think will be the toughest part of the project - as the shelf needs to be cut right out, so that the filter fits in.


If he'd let me at his tools, I'd do it myself, I'm so desperate Since January I've had the filter, the lights, the eco complete & the tanks were made about 2 or 3 months ago. It is very frustrating that the only thing stopping me is alteration to these cupboards. I'm getting very bored with the waiting & if he'd give me the tools, I'd do it tonight.

The end plan will see the tank in the middle (current 43G) replaced by a new 72G. On the left hand side the current 23.5G tank will be replaced by new 79G African Tank. On another wall (not pictured) the current 20G will be replaced by 72G divided tank (planted - with breeding apistos). The other small tanks scattered around the room will return to their rightful owner soon, as 'm only minding them.


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 10-Jul-2007 16:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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If he'd let me at his tools, I'd do it myself
Well you are married to him. What is his, is yours and yours is his. Just wait until he is gone and do the work!

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Post InfoPosted 13-Jul-2007 13:44Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
The next time you have some free time, you might go to the
nearest hardware store and purchase a "hole saw." They
come in various types from a hand operated one with a
small thin blade, to a power driven one (saber saw), or
the style that you ought to have used, a circular saw that
fits into any power drill. The o it drills can be up
to 4 inches in diameter in 1/2 inch steps. The blades are
thin metal that fit into a circular form. You choose the
size hole you want, insert the blade in the correct slots,
tighten a set screw, stick the assembly into a power drill
where a drill would normally fit, tighten the drill, and
push it through the wood.

From looking at the hole your hubby drilled, he just
drilled a set of holes in a circle, and "connected the
dots" then knocked it out leaving the half holes and
rough edges.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 13-Jul-2007 15:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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TW,

I haven't checked in on this in a while, and I wish I had! Very impressive! I'm a sucker for tanks with the dense, natural look

great job again, def. going to pay more attention to your log.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 13-Jul-2007 19:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Hi all

Gary, windelov is a type of java fern. [link]http://www.plantgeek.net/images/plantpics/Windlov2.jpg [/link]I've seen it referred to as Lace Java Fern too.
Just wait until he is gone and do the work
Tempting as that might be Wings, I wouldn't dare. So far he is saying he will do the job - but "wants to investigate all options". Naturally, the wife's DIY idea can't possibly be up to scratch & must be improved upon by the husband Hubby thinks we should use something like this http://www.globalindustrial.com/gcs/product/productInfo.web?infoParam.mode=1&infoParam.itemKey=30024904 but that will be sooo much more We plan to use 4 supports (one each corner), so cost will be heaps. Anyway the "investigations" will continue.

Frank - join the dots with his drill is exactly what hubby did (see - that's how unfussy I am). As long as nothing is done to ruin the exterior look of the furniture - I won't be critical of an untidy job - but I will look into the "hole saw" things you mention.

Hi NowherMan6 . Thanks for popping in & thanks for the tank compliment

As usual, nothing much has changed. I might have to trim things next week, as the new tank plan is just dragging on & things (particularly my riccia) are being too shaded.

Here are a few (sorry - quite a few) random tank shots to finish off today's post











EDIT: So far all seems to go well, since increasing the temp for the discus. No ill effects on plants.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 15-Jul-2007 15:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
You know, if that were my tank, I might be tempted to
remove the red rock that is poking out through the jungle.
It, and the beautiful red fish are a bit much and in the
one shot, they kind of clash.
I think I'd change it for a darker rock, grey or black in
color, just something other than that redish orange.


Frank

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Post InfoPosted 15-Jul-2007 19:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Not much to say there Robyn,

All is looking good and green and fresh

The only thing I noticed is that Discus for sure make the tank look small, but that is not your fault.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-Jul-2007 01:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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The only thing I noticed is that Discus for sure make the tank look small, but that is not your fault.
Well - I guess it is - me being the one fallen in with discus. The new tank will be bigger - but not that much. It's only 4inches longer & 6 inches higher. Doesn't seem much in inches - but the water volume increases to 71.1G.

Makes me wish the new tanks weren't already made. The other new tank (4ft) is only 20inches high (I did that because it is planned for Africans, who stay towards middle / bottom area). If it was 24inches high, I'd make it a hi-tech planted discus tank, so there'd be another planted log.

Sometimes I hate decisions. When you are deciding - the world is your oyster & you can plan anything you like. But ........... then you decide & you think you are settled ............ but then you see a particular discus you love & a new love affair has begun ............ the regret for the tank you have already planned begins

Anyway, To help make it 3ft tank look bigger - I'm going to try sawing off a big section from the under portion & rear of the windelov driftwood. It's so big. If I can cut it down & thin it enough, I hope to make it more like an island that will be surrounded by other plants - eg riccia. But - more will come about my half formed scape plans when the time is right. One thing I have learned - discourage well meaning family members from buying expensive hard scape items for your tank - otherwise you're stuck with using them.


Hi Frank - many things will change (probably including the rocks) when this tank closes down. At the moment, the rocks are babysitting the riccia until the new home is ready.

Cheers
TW
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I know what you mean, with "There is always a more suitable tank for me" - although you didn't say that straight out.

I have the same feelings with my 40G, now I wish I would have bought a deeper (not higher) tank, but that would have had to be almost for sure custom ( $$$ ).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-Jul-2007 13:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn . Thanks for sharing the photos of the DIY job for the cabinets . Gives a great insight into the size of the job
Good Luck with it . BTW I agree with Frank, best piece of gear I ever bought .
Also your photos look pretty good to me . But if you want to get better at editing and getting better results for the log try this site. It is helping me a lot . http://www.microsoft.com/uk/homepc/digitalimage/more/ImageEditingBasics.mspx

Pay special attention to the stuff on Jpeg compression .

Garry
Post InfoPosted 16-Jul-2007 16:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I know what you mean, with "There is always a more suitable tank for me" - although you didn't say that straight out
Dead right. I haven't even set either up, but I already feel both my new tanks are completely the wrong sizes
Gives a great insight into the size of the job
The pics were more to show why I had no choice & can't just buy a new cabinet - plus to show I'm not fussy if hubby does a dodgy job (eg joining the dots).

Thanks for the picture link. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet - but will save the link to check out later.

No pics today. Nothing changed other than the riccia rocks got a haircut at water change tonight.

Only other comment is an observation about discus & water changes. For fish that are supposed to need frequent water changes - they certainly hate them taking place. They sulk & hide for the rest of the night & won't come out.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2007 15:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The tank looks great Robyn. That blyxa is awesome. I wish mine would have grown for me. I'll have to stick with tenellus I s'pose. Great work, awesome discus!

There's sure been an outcropping of discus lately.



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Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2007 15:35Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Robyn:

your discus will adjust to water changes over time. Mine were the same but they chnged a lot and 'digested' even the drastic intervention that came with the remake of my tank (they were all in the aquarium). Nowadays they just act slightly annoyed but paddle around again shortly after I'm finished. On the other hand, maybe mine are a bit strange

Are all of your fish eating the homemade food? I am still tempted ...
Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2007 15:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Are all of your fish eating the homemade food? I am still tempted ...
They love it. That's all the fish in the tank - although the smaller fish all give way to the bigger rounder fish. The discus won't touch pellet. They come to the front, but just look at it, asking mum "where's the real food". Won't touch frozen brine shrimp either - but do like blood worm. I probably wouldn't have bothered with the homemade food, if they would have eaten my spectrum pellet. I didn't think a diet of only bloodworms was good enough. Now that I made it though, I have no regrets.

I have enough to last at least 6 months & I think even longer. I have about 60 plastic snaplock plastic baggies of the stuff frozen in thin layers. Each day, I snapp off the amount I think I'll need. I am still using the 1st bag with at least a quarter left in it. I have been using this same bag since I made it (about 2 or 3 weeks) so you can see I will not have to make more for a very long time.

Thanks for the compliment Matty. My blyxa is doing well. I have no room for the extra plants that continue to pop out, but am loathe to throw them out in case I need them for the new setup.

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Are all of your fish eating the homemade food? I am still tempted ...
Catdancer, forgot to mention something - but you probably know already. It can take a couple of days for discus to recognise & eat a new food. On 1st feed of homemade food, only 1 ate it. One by one, they all starting eating it. Now they are forever begging for food when they see me. Unfortunately, still no success with spectrum - which I add daily for the other fish. They won't touch it.

Thought I'd mention a few changes to the tanks population:-

Traded in 1 red melon discus for 1 Super Alenquer Discus (no pics, as lights are out during a preventative worming treatment)
Added 6 cory caudimaculatus - which are meant to prefer higher temps than other corys

Sadly, I'm losing my harly rasboras, which I put down to the higher temps - as I didn't have a problem with them previously

Cheers
TW
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catdancer
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Thanks for the info, Robyn, I am more and more inclined to prepare my own fish food (the only problem is: how does a vegetarian find out where to purchase beef heart? I am at a loss ...)

Any chance that you will start your new tank soon? I am certainly looking forward to your new log. I read that you want to set up an African themed tank, fish-wise or plantwise?

Another dump question from a veggie eater : do you cook the fish or is it raw when you put it through the blender?
Post InfoPosted 23-Jul-2007 05:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn
Love to see some shots of your Corys when you get a chance.
I'm thinking of getting some and I'm interested in the different types.

Thanks

Garry
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