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Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, and gotcha...

I suppose I should look at post dates before I reply to them... I hadn't realized that it'd been two months since your last reply to this thread o.O

So, how is the tank going? Any new pics?

I suppose I should look at post dates before I reply to them...

I usually don't think to look at them either. Having plant issues in this tank I haven't struck before. Annubia's leaves melting & dying - very strange.

On the right side I have Apongeton crispus green & Apongeton crispus red. They have grown heaps, their long leaves bend across the top of the tank reach the front wall. Downside is this has left what lines the back wall as all stem. They are starting to melt & die off, I think because one row of my lights isn't working properly. Flickers, but won't turn on. Need to investigate solution.

As well as HC now being out, I am moving away from having riccia. It was one thing to do the work of maintaining a few rocks of riccia in a small tank, but this is too much. May try moss on the rocks instead.

As the "pots of wisteria" ruin the look, I've been reluctant to take new pictures.

Any suggestions for small foreground plants, that won't become dirt traps would be greatly appreciated.

cheers, Robyn

Cheers
TW

I think because one row of my lights isn't working properly. Flickers, but won't turn on. Need to investigate solution.

It sounds like your ballast has seen better days. You are using power compact lights correct? If so I would recommend getting your hands on a work horse ballast. They have some really nice wiring diagrams and their staff is quite helpful. I got mine from here.

Here is the website to the maker of the ballast.

Any suggestions for small foreground plants, that won't become dirt traps would be greatly appreciated.

I am not sure there is one that doesn't trap dirt. Maybe a sand foreground
. My problem is I don't want to suck up any baby shrimp in from the foreground plants.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks for the ballast tips, wings. Tank manufacturer says it's a tube problem, not a ballast problem. Might be right, as same thing was happening in the 4ft & I fiddled with the tubes a few times & no more flickering.

The 7ft lamp is hard for me to turn upside down to get to the tubes, so waiting till hubby can help. Hopefully that will do the trick.

I don't dare add shrimps - I'm sure they'd be discus dinner all too soon.

The right hand side of tank doesn't have so many "wisteria pots", so I thought I'd post an update. No point showing the left - wisteria pots block the view. You can see I've given up on the hc. I'm trying some pogostemon helferi. I only have 3 small plants - can't get more. Can't find it anywhere in LFS, or on-line. Bought this from a hobbyist. Hope my corries give it time to take proper root.

The rocks have what is meant to be Christmas moss (added 3-4 days ago). Not so sure it is Christmas moss. Bought a more expensive batch of it on ebay the other day & it is much lighter & many more of stem have the Christmas tree shape. I am thinking this 1st lot might be mainly java with some Christmas moss mixed in. A bit disappointing.

When I get around to it, will take close up pics of two batches of Christmas moss & see if anyone here can confirm.

Right side Day 1


Right side Tonight (pls pretend the wisteria pots aren't there)


Pogostemon helferi



Some of my Fav Occupants

Wild Royal Blue


Wild Heckels




A 2nd Wild Royal Blue (in QT)


Wild Browns(in QT)


Planing on making the 7ft tank either all "wilds" or all "domestics". Means my poor Africans will need to find another home (I feel like such a bad mum) & their 4ft will become home to whichever discus I decide NOT to keep in the 7ft.

I've heard that wilds aren't so popular in the US, but I am really taken with them.

Enough waffle, cheers, Robyn


Cheers
TW

I really like your driftwood. Nice and branchy.

The discus are very nice. I think the reason for choosing the domestic over wild strains is that the domestic ones are cheaper and that they are supposed to be more sturdy. Just from what I've heard anyhow. I'm not a discus keeper.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Things are looking pretty good there! I think I like the moss rocks better than the riccia rocks. It think that is a little more of a popular thing to do these days. What happened to all the anubias on the driftwood?

I've heard that wilds aren't so popular in the US, but I am really taken with them.

Wilds I think are the way to go. They don't tend to take away from the rest of the tank as many of the other color variations do.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Sorry, such short little Q's, yet another monster reply. I am a champion waffler.

Hey Matty. Glad you found my thread. Thanks for the driftwood compliment.

The discus are very nice. I think the reason for choosing the domestic over wild strains is that the domestic ones are cheaper and that they are supposed to be more sturdy.

Comment about Wilds not being popular in the US (most likely biased) is from a book written by an Asian Discus breeder. His preference is with domestics (given he breeds them). He was discussing discus competitions worldwide, saying wilds were very popular in Europe, but not in the US, where domestics are considered more desirable. Aust didn't even get a mention.

Certainly wilds are more expensive, cost effected by lack of availability. The few of us on my discus forum who have wilds begin to believe their reputation for being less sturdy is untrue. Immune system seems stronger than domestics, which are hybrids inbred to achieve desired colours/pattern. Consensus is wilds are best kept separate from domestics (thus my plan of splitting them between 2 tanks).

I like the moss rocks better than the riccia rocks. It think that is a little more of a popular thing to do these days.

Thanks wings, I'm glad it's not only more popular, as well as easier for a lazy hobbyist to maintain.

What happened to all the anubias on the driftwood?

Originally the anubia were really well attached to some ugly rock/cave structures and were in another terrarium tank for months on end, waiting for the 7ft to be ready. I gently teased the roots away from rock/cave structure and tied them to driftwood in the 7ft (also in terrarium mode). Within a short time, all anubia started to die. I removed them and put them in a tank with water to recover. They continued to die. Some completely and some have recovered enough to return to the tank, but in a much smaller version. I lost a lot of really nice anubia. I will need to get some more when funds allow.

Can only assume their removal from the rock/cave was too much for them. If not that, I have no idea. I've never had anubia die on me before.

Wilds I think are the way to go. They don't tend to take away from the rest of the tank as many of the other color variations do.

Thanks Wings. If I could do it all over again (providing I could find them) I would only have wilds.

My dilemma is which tank for wilds & which for domestics. I much prefer my wilds & would like to give them the increased space in the 7ft. That's probably where they'll end up - but the scape here isn't really a natural looking one. It's more a man made look than I would choose on purpose for wilds. Trouble is, this tank took so long in the planning, that by the time I pulled everything together, my focus had changed.

Anyway, I will soon have a much simpler 4ft planted tank to share with you, in the near future. Probably with the domestics.

Enough Waffle, Robyn


Cheers
TW

Time for an update.

I regret now that this tank isn't full sand. Amazed at how different the discus look when over the sand, as to how they look when over the planted area. Will keep thinking about it for a bit longer, but may eventually pull everything up, or maybe lower the soil section & add a top layer of sand. Anyway, pictures follow:-

Right Side


Left side Should have tidied the little soil overspill onto sand - lazy !!!


middle


full - hmmm. must trim the willow hygro


I'm still working on the moss rock border. Work in progress

Cheers
TW

a better full shot, I think


Cheers
TW

Looks really good robyn. That is one loooong tank. Makes the discus look almost small.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi Robyn:

The tank looks great and the length of it makes thhe discus look small. How big are they by now? Of course, I have several other questions: I admire the thicket of green you refer to as the 'willow hygro'. Is this plant hygrophila angustifolia? You have the longest strip of light I have seen in one piece. How long is it and who makes it? Can't wait for another update.

Claudia

Thanks for popping in Matty & Claudia

the thicket of green you refer to as the 'willow hygro'. Is this plant hygrophila angustifolia?

that's the one

You have the longest strip of light I have seen in one piece. How long is it and who makes it?

That's a whole other story. My tank is a non standard size (19" wide & 7' long) so it was custom made. Before I committed to the tank being made, I checked with my lighting retailer to make sure I could actually get a 7ft light, as I had never seen one. I didn't want a hood, or suspended lights. My email subject heading said "7ft Light Quote". All my text therein refered to "7ft Light". He gives me a quote by reply email, so I naturally think this means the light I want is available.

So I pay up front for the tank to be made & it is.

Next thing, I go back to the light retailer to order & find we've had a misunderstanding. He's a good guy, but this time things went wrong for me. He says:-

"no such thing as a 7ft light"
"can't do it"
"can't get it"
"no-one makes it"
"sorry, mistake"
"cancel your tank"

which I can't 'cause it's custom made. I fretted & stressed over this. I knew the actual light manufacturer was in QLD (state where Garry lives), so I begged retailer for manufacturers contact details. I put my case to the manufacturer, who told me he doesn't make 7ft lights, because 6ft is longest strip of light he believes is stable & won't bow out of shape. He kindly (& reluctantly) agreed to make a one-off for me, as he knew I was in a bad situation. No guarantee from him it won't bow, but I have a piece of perspex in the middle (where there are no tubes) & this should ensure it won't bow.

The tubes are another issue. Whilst he could stretch the frame, he couldn't stretch the tubes. There are 4 x 96W 3ft tubes, with a 1ft gap in the middle where there are no tubes. You can't really tell, as the reflector spreads the light. So all's well that ends well. I guess it was a lucky mistake, 'cause if I'd had the right answer in the 1st place (that there is no 7ft light) I would only have ordered a 6ft tank. Because of the mistake, I have my 7ft tank & 7ft light, so I'm happy.

Anyway, enough waffle

Cheers
TW

It's been a while, so thought it was time to show how the tank is looking today


Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,
It is indeed a beautiful looking tank!
I remember when you were looking for the light assembly
and I guess I just did not put 2 and 2 together. I figured
that the 7 ft tank was a standard down there, and thus that
the hoods would be available. It's great that there is a
manufacturer there would would special build one for you.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Wow, that looks great! The only thing I could think of is to make that piece of DW on in the center of the left island a bit more visible. Any chance on some closeups?

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

wow your discus are stunning... I only hope the two I have can one day be in a tank as stunning... in the making is a similar tank and in the mind is the purchase or many more discus... as for the wild/domestic dilemma: i think it depends on the actual specimen. The guy I bought my two domestics from had bought nearly 20 discus over the 10 month span of his tanks life. He only had 4 survive... my two little guys and two larger ones. He told me that He had bought them form 7 different sources... some were wilds, some were domestics. some were actually imported others were bred a few blocks away... the only ones he had survive were the ones bred closely. they were already used to his water and were comfortable with the move. It definitely depends on the breeder/handler/keeper that sells them prior and the acclimation and tank maintenance process. so many people are afraid of discus because of their delicate and supposed weak nature... I think that they do not know properly how to care for the neons or bettas they have and cannot do perfect care for any fish. I know I am no perfectionist that spends hours a day working on a tank, but I do know that even an adequate and young/relatively un-knowledgeable fish keeper could bring 2 discus along with about 7 other small fish in a 5gallon bucket from 50 miles away on a bumpy highway (get lost along the way back) and acclimate his fish well... I did it with no real prior discus knowledge (but I did know some things about delicate fish and acclimation. Any of you newbies that are coveting TW's tank should know that if you hang around here long enough and you listen well you can one day accomplish such a treasure as seen.... AND IF YOU WANT TO YOU MIGHT WANNA START A LITTLE HUSH FUND FOR IT NOW

TW your tank is a great example of a slow and steady process to set up a large and beautiful tank that can be stable for even the very "delicate" discus... you certainly have put your heart, soul, and life savings into the tank good job... I cant imagine it needing much more improvement!

-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

Thanks Matty. Will try to get around to taking close ups soon.

brandeeno, you make be blush Thanks for such nice comments. Re: the wild/domestic issue. I've only had 1 wild die on me. It was never well from the moment I brought him home. I don't think he ever ate even 1 bite. Metro didn't save him - but I don't think my dosing was high or frequent enough, so that may have contributed.

I have not found discus so very hard to maintain. Look after the water & the discus seem to look after themselves. But you do really need to look after the water. Good luck with yours, as well as with the tank you are building.

Cheers
TW

Sorry I am so late on this....

The tank is looking quite nice. I rather enjoy the anubias mound on the right side of the tank. There is just something about that plant in thick groupings I enjoy greatly.

I am really looking forward to seeing some closeup shots too.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

time for a few new pics, though not much has changed. Sorry, they're blurry Eventually, this will just be for the domestics. I still have some wild browns & blue in this tank, but they'll be moving out soon to the 4ft.

Full Frontal


Though there's plenty of room for the discus to swim behind the rear plants & driftwood, they're always out & about where I can see them.

It's been a while since my last post, but not a lot has changed. I prefer to keep things stable & not disturb the discus too much, so I don't tend to re-scape very much. I thinned out my Cyperus helferi, as it was blocking out most of the wood on the left hand side. I trimmed the top of the c.helferi (love this plant, as you don't need to pull it out & cut from the bottom. Just trim the tops when needed). After the trimming, it was still too thick. The plant had multiplied and I have about 5 spare I'll be trying to sell, when I get around to it.

Left Side



Middle


Right Side


On the right hand side, the Blyxa japonica is far too overgrown. But I'll deal with that after I sell the Cyperus helferi.

There's also a tall growing crypt in the foreground of the right hand side. Something else I have to deal with. It must have been a hitchhiker & when I stop being lazy, I'll replant it toward the back of the tank, 'cause I know it doesn't belong in the front.

Anyway, enough for now. Hope you like it

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,
Beautiful tank and really healthy looking fish as well
as the plants! It looks like all your research and
worry turned to be paying dividends.

Your stream and beach seem to be really white and clean.
For those who are considering that type of aquas-caping,
how are you keeping it that way, what do you do?

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

With such a natural looking tank I would personally want to keep the wild discus in there. That is just me though...

The tank sure looks nice. I bet it would look even better if the red on my screen would come back on.... I think my monitor is on its last days...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Your stream and beach seem to be really white and clean. For those who are considering that type of aquas-caping,how are you keeping it that way, what do you do?

Hi Frank, thanks for nice comments. Firstly, because this is ultimately a discus tank, things are kept simple. There are no stem plants that have to be regularly pulled out, bottom trimmed & replanted. I think this helps not disturb the planted areas too much. Also to keep things simple, the ricca rocks are gone. Too much work giving all those rocks hair cuts for a tank this size.

IMO the most important part of keeping the area separate is having a good solid retaining wall. I know that's not the amano way, but I can't see his way being practical for a long term tank. He would have you put in temporary dividing cardboard sheets. Pour the 2 diff substrates in & then cover the join with riccia rocks. Never tried it, but I just can't see how any tank with cories & other fish in there will ever keep the substrate division neat.

My retaining wall isn't as good I wanted it. If you scroll back to earlier pages, you see my concept was to silicone the main border rocks in place & then fill in the gaps with small gravel (also siliconed in place). I still think the concept was sound, but I should have done more test runs with substrate & water in (but no livestock). I still have gaps & if there were no fish in there, I could silicone more rocks in those gaps. As it is, I can only jamb in extra rocks & hold them in place with the weight of the sand. When I gravel vac, I tend to mess up the balance, the jambed rock moves & I get a few little spills. I just get my plant tongs & toss the ADA grains back where they belong, but if I could silicone the new rocks in place, problem would eventually be solved. If you look at my latest pics & you will see some border rocks that are lighter in colour. They are new jambing rocks (but the same type rocks). They will eventually get a light algae cover over them & they will blend in.

If you compare my latest shots with earlier shots, you'll also see I've lowered the both substrates a little, on either side of the border (but more so on the sand side). This also helps keep the substrates separated. My first effort was attempting to have the substrates meet the rocks on a level basos. It was too hard to stop the ADA spilling over that way. I had to accept the compromise of having the border sitting above the sand level.

My best advice is to build a good retaining wall & then give in adequest testing time without fish, so you can fix it where needed.

Water went in this tank July 07. Twice since then (one being a few weeks back) I've used a wide hose (like for washing machine waste water) & sucked all the sand out & given it a quick rinse. It really doesn't take long to do that at all. I don't wash it as thoroughly as I would if it were fresh gravel from LFS. Just a few changes of water in a bucket, then back in it went. Trying to shovel the sand out is the pits. Best way is suctioning it out.

With such a natural looking tank I would personally want to keep the wild discus in there. That is just me though...

Was torn at first, as I wanted my wild discus to have the biggest tank. But now I have enough wild browns & blues to fully stock my 4ft as well as enough wild green discus to fully stock my 3ft. According to Heiko (wild discus expert) greens & blues should be kept separate. So that was one factor. The other is that even if the7ft is natural, it's not really mimicking the wilds natural environment. I don't plan on being super strict with the bio type, but I do plan on making it at least semi bio type. This means a light sandy bottom, branchy driftwood that reaches down from the water surface and floating plants. There shouldn't really be plants in the tank, but I have cheated a little & have some n.leaf java fern & moss here and there. I'm still searching for the right floating plants. I've made a start on the brown/blue's tank. The green's are still in BB QT, so their setup will start later down the track, but similar scheme. I don't have a pic of the biotype with fish, sand & plants, but here's a sneaky peak of the day I was playing around with driftwood layout. This is more or less how my driftwood is placed, though I did flip the right side piece so the low long horizontal piece sits more at the rear.

bet it would look even better if the red on my screen would come back on....

Probably not Wings. I don't have any red plants in there, other than crypt tropica. The phantom tall crypt on the right half of the tank, it has pink backed leaves, but it didn't show up in the pics.


Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,
I have flipped back and forth and had, indeed, forgotten
that you'd created a wall between the two. Yes, that does
make a world of difference during cleaning. Simply siphon
out the sand, wash it, and replace it. Good thinking!

I think Wings was talking about the "red" being missing
from his monitor because of what it did to the Red Discus
fish that are in the pictures.

Yes, Wings, I'd definitely replace the monitor!

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Fish and plants look way better when the red comes back on my monitor!!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric