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I was just wondering what heavy metals are used by plants? I know iron is one. Is copper considered a heavy metal?

What others are there, including trace-mins?

I'm switching to a conditioner that is strictly chlorine/chloramine remover because I don't see a need to rid my tap water of heavy metals. I think the less i add to the tank, the better in terms of all these conditioners.

Hi,
On page 103 of Diana Walstad's book, the "Ecology of the
Planted Aquarium", she lists the elements required by plants
along with the functions of those elements.

Boron, Carbon, Calcium, Chlorine,Copper,Iron, Hydrogen,
Potassium, Magnesium, Manganese, Molybdemum, Nitrogen,
Nickel, Oxygen, Phosphorus, Sulfur, Zinc, are on the list.

I would stongly urge you to obtain a copy of this book.
While it pertains to a specific type of aquarium, the
information in it is vital to any serious planted tank
owner.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank - I have a copy of that book and didn't think to look there. I have to get into that thing again.

I got confused after starting to read her book, then realized there were different schools of thought. Amano has his, she has hers, and there are many others. I know she is really big on soil-based aquariums.

I think I can look at it more objectively now that I know there are different schools of thought. Early on, it was confusing for me.

I can't help thinking that when I add Prime to my planted tank, I could be depleting some of these, in addition to things like Iron that I add. But I can't seem to find any conditioner that specifically addresses just chlorine and chloramine. I can't address one without the other as I believe my municipality uses chloramine (according to a water assessement done by my bottled water company).

I'd like to shift to a simple chlorine/chloramine remover, but can't find one. All remove heavy metals and I just don't feel I need that.

Hi,
I found it to be an excellent book. For someone who wants
a truly beautiful tank that is "low tech" meaning not alot
of "gadgets" and not alot of expense, her ideas are the
ones to emulate. After reading that book, I wandered
around the house with a tape measure. As soon as my wife
saw me "armed" with the tape measure, she knew I was on
a quest for locating another tank. Each time I stopped
and measured, I heard a "NO" behind me...
There seems to actually be a limit to the number, and size,
of tanks that will fit into a finite space! Imagine that!

If you are really concerned rather than mildly curious,
you can always add trace elements a few hours after a
water change. I'd use the Flourish series of ferts.
Be sure to allow an hour or two for the fresh water to
mix with the old water.
Myself, I think I'd rather wait for my plants to tell me
that there is a problem developing by looking at them each
day for symptoms. For the symptoms see:http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm
But then.. I'm a "Guy" and in my
experiance, "guys" wait for something to hurt before seeing
a doctor.

Frank


Last edited by FRANK at 28-Feb-2005 14:03

Last edited by FRANK at 28-Feb-2005 14:09

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

- too funny with your wife following you. I'm a lady and my 72 year old mother follows me around the house the same way, shaking her head. I just got an earful because I told her I was going to the pet store after a haircut. I've been on medical since Jan 3 and haven't had my hair cut since before christmas.

I'm just not comfortable experimenting with soil just yet.

Hi,
What can I say... Parents will always be parents no matter
what the children's age...

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

well I really didn't expect to get such a good laugh from a thread with such a serious heading!

The uptake of minerals for plants (and for people) is rather complex and a very careful balancing act. An example I've had experience of recently in human terms... calcium is good, but if you take too much calcium it blocks your uptake of magnesium and causes all kinds of trouble.

I believe that plants are the same. They need extremely tiny but essential doses of many trace elements to keep them healthy. Some will be lacking in your local soil and water (in New Zealand it's selenium and zinc) so your local situation will be unique. It's a complex and fascinating science, and I wish you good luck in your investigations, Di!

And just for fun, another human example by way of caution - a vegetarian friend of mine was lethargic all the time so I suggested he should take iron supplements. Turns out he has a genetic condition that means his body retains iron in his organs (including his brain) and my well-intentioned but poorly informed prescription was gradually killing him!

So the moral of the story: balance in all things including heavy metals, fish tanks and mothers.

My tank does well when I dose the Flourish Trace Mins once or twice weekly. I already dose Flourish several times weekly. I had to pick up Flourish Iron after everything yellowed on me and people suggested I add iron. That did the trick right quick. Since I had to buy it online, I decided to pick up Potassium at the same time figuring, you never know. Then I read that potassium is needed to help with iron uptake, so I began dosing a little of that whenever I dosed iron. My plants really picked up at that time. Now the co2 is adding another boost and the algae is dying off quickly, even tho I don't have the minimum 10 of co2. I'm happy

Last edited by Cory_Di at 28-Feb-2005 18:19

That book you cited is a goldmine Frank. It was quoted in a Practical Fishkeeping article on using various plant species in a sump or refugium as a vegetable filter. I wrote a post on the subject a while back but it vanished after the Board archiving. I'll have to repost it sometime.

It's amazing the kind of heavy metals plants will soak up without adverse effects. Water Hyacinth, Eichhornia crassipes, better known as an invasive pest in various parts of the world where it has been unwisely introduced without due care and attention to local ecosystems, is actually a kind of natural detoxifier for fresh water. It has actully been pressed into service in water treatment plants for the purpose of removing excess heavy metals, particularly the transition metal series (zinc, molybdenum etc) and the hafnium series (principally mercury). It will also remove copper, and even dissolved lead salts.

The Walstad book is the defiinitive reference work for the time being, and likely to remain so for a decade at least. Cory_Di, if you already have a copy, read and digest thoroughly, as it is a superlative treatise.


Last edited by Calilasseia at 28-Feb-2005 18:38

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

*sticks nose back into Walstad's book*

Di,

As you read the book, see if it has a reference to "heavy" metals. Heavy metals is a generic term for contaminants that can be deadly in concentration. Generally these metals are zinc, lead and mercury. These are industrial contaminants now common in our waterways. You should note that they are often common in our households as they were used in plumbing systems.

I believe that Prime helps to detoxify these metals without removing trace elements.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Good info. I was looking for some type of definition of heavy metals. That explains why I didn't see a reduction in copper levels when I dosed the tank with extra Prime trying to bring the level down after a treatment. I wasn't sure if it would remove it or not, so I measured. Water changes did it in the end.