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I've been reading through a lot of the tank logs and it seems that quite a few of you have spray bars. what is the benefit of having a spray bar as opposed to a normal open return in a planted tank? is it to minimize current?? i seem to remember reading somewhere that spraybars were detrimental planted applications.

Just curious on your opinions.

Thanks all.

To start of with to run a spray bar correctly you must have a good water return pressure to get the full effect of their usage. Mine is from the Eheim Pro11 which has plenty of pressure.

The purpose is to spread the return water over the tank at a more even distribution. They can be set to run above or below the water surface. Mine is set up to run over the surface this gives the surface water a greater area thus helping to increase the water quality. The Eheim has an adjusting spray bar I have two thirds across the top and one third spraying down at about 45%.
I personally think my plants 99% Anubias love the extra water movement. The plant experts could be able to tell you about some plants that may prefer still waters and therefore a spray bay would not be the best to use in that situation.

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Keith

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There is also the benefit of increased oxygenation, and the water pounding down from a spray bar not only aerates beautifully, it pushed the surface film back into solution ensuring the filter picks up a processes all of the protiens and fats that cause scummy surface level pollution and may block some gaseous exchange through the film. The whole thing by and large about spray bars is not to put plants directly in the main part of the flow, all my tanks are planted and all but one have spray bars. In many cases you can actually shorten the bar a little to make it less intrusive, as long as you drill an equal number of holes back into it when you cut some off to shorten it.

Hi,
Most of us that are running spray bars, have them mounted
so the return is below the surface. Some mount them
horizontally, while a few have mounted them vertically.

In a "normal" tank, the spray bar is mounted above the
surface of the water and is designed to agitate the
surface. This agitation aerates the water and also, as
LGT says, breaks up the protein scum that can form on the
surface of many tanks (mainly due to oily, protein filled
foods, and poor maintenance).

The normal CO2 saturation in a tank is 5mg/l. With our
planted tanks we increase that saturation up to around
30mg/l. With that much saturation, any surface agitation
would release the surface tension and allow the excess
CO2 to escape into the atmosphere. That is why our return
spray bars are mounted below the surface and provide
circulation throughout the tank. Most of our tanks are
so heavily planted, that with normal filter returns, there
would be dead spots scattered throughout the tank. These
dead spots become "sumps" for nutrients and/or detritus
to accumulate. These sumps also become breeding grounds
for the dreaded BGA to take hold. Again, the increased
circulation helps prevent that. With the bottled CO2
injection systems, we can also increase the rate of
injection to compensate for losses at the surface. That is
something that the DIY injection systems cannot do.

In a normal tank, with plenty of fish, and only a few
plants, these dead spots don't occur. Unless, of course
you have hard-scape (rocks) that break up the currents.

Hope this helps...
Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hmmm, okay. So then it sounds like spray bars are the way to go. Now if the spray bar is positioned below the surface to reduce the agitation, thus ensuring that more C02 remains in the water, will i need to supply supplemental oxygen to keep my fish happy or will the plants take care of that. is my understanding that surface agitation is benefitial for oxygenation correct?

Also, if i will be adding rocks I guess I will be needing a powerhead to try to reduce the dead spots - correct? Should I be getting on that is matched for my tank or get a less powerful one to keep the current down?

i just have to say again that i really appreciate the time and effort you guys are taking to answer the questions of newbies such as myself. I've been reading through lots of the logs to try to find answers, but doing so usually just brings up more questions. Here's hoping that in a month or two, I'll be starting up a tank log of my own.

Oops. Looks like re-reading has answered one of my questions. Frank, you are saying that the distributed circulation of a spray bar may be enough to help battle the BGA that may try to take advantage of dead spots in the tank. So then no powerhead needed

hmmmm...it sounds like spray bars have very little down side, if any.

Thanks again

Hi,
I'm glad that we at Fish Profiles are helping with
your questions. Yes, many times an answer does
spawn others, but then that is how many of us learn.

Don't stop.

As far as spray bars, injected CO2, and oxygen deprivation
is concerned nearly every time it is not a problem.
Problems occur when you have over crowded the tank with
fish, and injected CO2 into very high saturation rates.
This becomes apparent first thing in the morning just
before the tank lights come on. If you find the fish
gulping for air at the surface or lying on their sides
gasping on the bottom, then you have too much CO2 in the
tank and you should immediately drop a functioning air
stone in the tank and rile the surface to increase the
Oxygen in the tank. However, it would mean that your tank
is so crammed full of fish that it resembles a tank full
of feeders at your LFS just after he received the new
weeks shipment. It really takes work to cause that
situation to happen.

The plants and incidental exchanges of O2 across the
water/air boundary will supply more than enough oxygen for
the fish.

As far as BGA is concerned, there are a number of causes
and poor/little circulation is only one contributing
factor. You want your filter to "turn the tank over" at
least 3-4 times in an hour. Some try for more, while
others may (for some reason) use less, but 3-4 times is
about normal turn over rate. That should provide plenty
of circulation throughout the tank and not harm the fish.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Just returned from my LFS with a spraybar.

Thanks once again for the info.

interesting. a book i have been reading had an equipment list for a tank similar to that i am working on and he used a spray bar, i always thought that due to the co2 exchange that it would create at the surface would be detrimental to his plants- but now i understand! nice 1 frank