FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Here are the tank specs:

46 gallons
2.4 WPG (110 watts)
pressurized CO2, derived about 14ppm
stocking is in my profile
Nitrates: 10-15 ppm

Some wierd things have been going on in my tank lately. I began using pressurized CO2 a while back and i've seen outstanding growth in my stem plants (crypts and anubias.. eh, not so much). Growth isn't the problem. The problem is, I've been seeing an explosion over the past 2 weeks or so in some sort of ugly stringy algae... it's black/ brownish and feels slimy to the touch. I believe it's Staghorn algae. I've also seen BBA on the edges of my crypts and anubias. My question is, what gives???

I dose Nitrates about twice a week, about 1/4 tsp. each time - that, along with my stocking keeps them up at around 15ppm. It's not N, CO2 or light that are lacking.

I had been dosing trace elements at half the reccomended dosage, but that's when I noticed the algae explosion (and I mean explosion - it looked like there were spider webs between the leaves of some of my plants)

After searching this site for hair algae, i used some of the links provided by other members and I see that these forms are sometimes caused by too much iron in the water - should I just keep doing water changes to fight off this crap? What else can I do?

Then I noticed yesterday that one piece of new growth of h. polysperma was a light brown color, rather than green. That would suggest a nutrient deficiency, right? But isn't an excess of nutrients the cause of my other problems?? WARGH! ]:|

I swear, if I get BGA again any time soon on top of this mess, I'll move my fish to a bucket and bleach the whole darn tank... ]:|

Thanks,
Rich


p.s. let me know if attaching pictures would be helpful.

---

Back in the saddle!

Rich,

I'm not very good at algae problems but I'll give it a shot.

Light and co2 looks fine (although you didn't mention how long the lights are on). 15ppm of Nitrate is a little more then you really need, but still shouldn't be a serious issue. Maybe try reducing the Nitrate dosing to once a week. 5-10ppm should be sufficient to keep the plants in good condition. Also if you could let us know what your are using to dose the Nitrates.

The Polysperma keep an eye on, one piece of new growth is not too much to worry about - see if it develops further (it's such a fast grower you shouldn't have long to wait ). Sometimes Hygro can get a light brownish tint if it's close to the light.

You mentioned that the Hygro indicates an shortage of nutrients while the algae indicates an excess of nutrients. Nutrients in the plural. But it could very well be that you have a shortage of one particular nutrient and an excess of another. The shortage of one could limit the plants leaving the algae to snack on the excess. Or it could just be an excess of one particular nutrient.

The thread algae could be from too much Iron. Can you measure the levels? Anything around 0.1 should be ok.Above that maybe it could do with reducing. Also might be worthwhile checking for phosphates.I doubt very much there is an excess of any other nutrient.In the meantime small regular water changes never does any harm.

The beard algae on the Anubias is quite common, not so on the crypts. If you can crank the Co2 up to about 20-25ppm it will help.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks bensaf, I appreciate your help.

Lights are on approx. 11 hours a day. I may cut that back by an hour.

As for the ntirates, the reason I keep them so high is to keep BGA at bay the best I can. I'm using Greenlight stump remover when dosing. Pure KNO3 by all accounts. I may do a few small water changes over the next few days to dilute things as best I can. Cheers

---

Back in the saddle!

Rich,

Pictures always help! It sounds like you have a couple of things going on with slimy, stringy algae then blue-green algae (BGA) and finally some off color groth on h. polysperma.

Let's start with the worst. BGA just happens. It is everywhere in the environment and tends to rear its ugly head every once in a while. My best luck in dealing with this bacteria based algae is erythromycin (sp?). I try to remove as much as I can then I dose according to the directions, do a large water change in three days and then dose again. It has rarelt reappeared. The danger of dosing is stated as the possibility that you will kill your bio-filter then trigger a cycle. Perhaps I have been lucky but I have never had that problem.

I have had staghorn algae in the past. Interesting growth pattern for algae and it seemed to grow mainly on the hardscape in the tank such as driftwood and electric cords for heaters. I ended up removing the hardscape and giving it a bleach and water bath. One cup of bleach to 19 cups of water. It fizzed up and has been gone since that time. If you use this method be sure to rinse the hardscape well before placing back into the aquarium. I soaked the wood in water overnight with a megadose of conditioner before putting it back into my tank.

Last item was the odd polysperma growth. Is it possible that you are overdosing ferts? I might re-examine the level of dosing to see the effects. If you have loaches or trumpet snails they may have disturbed the roots. This is all guesswork for the plant diagnosis.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Thge BBA is a sure sign of a lack of CO2.
Double the amount of CO2 you have.
NO3 test kits are notoriously inaccurate, I bet you have less than 5ppm.

Here's what I'd do if I were you:
Add more CO2, to 25-30ppm, keep it there during the light peroid.
10-11hours of light
Clean the tank well, trim off any relatively easy to remove algae.
Clean all equipment(if it has algae on it, clean filter, scrub glass down, do large water change, remove any dead leaves, net them out etc.

Add KNO3, about 1/3 teaspoon 2-3x a week, this will prevent BGA from growing, you may need to kill it if this does not work, a simple 3 day blackout(, shut off CO2, add KNO3 after first water change, turn off light/CO2 cover tank with trash bags, 2 thick, wait 3 days, remove turn back on CO2/light, another large water change(50%) and add KNO3 back) and dosing will solve that once and for all.

BBA=> CO2.
If you use CO2, use it correctly 14ppm in not enough and the accuracy even using a probe and a decent KH kit is still +,- 5ppm.

KNO3
KH2PO4
Traces (eg SeaChem Flourish or Tropica Master Grow are examples)

Are all most folks need if their KH/GH are 3 degrees or higher.

These are available from wwww.gregwatson.com
and 1 lb will last a years or two for your tank and send the plants into overdrive.

Good plant growth is the goal, so focus on that and you will not have algae issues.

The fert's are cheap and easy to dose, the CO2 can be squirrely so keep a good eye on it and add enough.

CO2 issues are about 90% of all algae related problems, the others are KNO3/PO4.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Thanks everyone. Ive gone through the tank and done my best with removing all of the visable stuff. I'll start the dosing regimen in the next day or so, I want to let the water settle down - it's quite cloudy right now... I'm not sure if this is because of the plant trimming and gravel vac that I did or if it's an algae bloom, since it has a bit of a greenish tint. In that case, that's a whole other can of worms...

Anyway, for anyone who's still interested, I shot a few pics:







NowherMan6 attached this image:

---

Back in the saddle!

Another:



NowherMan6 attached this image:

---

Back in the saddle!

And one more:



NowherMan6 attached this image:

---

Back in the saddle!

That looks like the thread algae I had in 1999.

I nuked it quite simply. I bought two Siamese Algae Eatrs (Crossocheilus siamensis). They eradicated it in about a week. And went on to grow into humungous adults in the space of 6 weeks or so!



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

If I had the room for true SAE's I wouldnt hesitate. Sadly, I do not.

---

Back in the saddle!

Actually.... you sort of DO have room. If you actually need to dose nitrates, those aren't the problem. Space shouldn't be a problem in a 46, at least for now. I think you could get a couple, and return them after they've done their job.

---

They shade the glow of it with their mossy-misty costumes,
They wear masks of silk, porcelain, brass, and silver,
So as not to mislead with their own, ordinary faces.

I dont have an LFS that would "loan" me fish. If I got them I'd want to keep them long term.

But they wouldnt help me with the green water anyway. Im just going to keep changing water, keep the CO2 up and figure out how much trace elements to dose

---

Back in the saddle!

I'm aware of BGA = Blue Green Algae (i.e., cyanobacteria), but what's BBA?

Someone enlighten me on this acronym.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Hi
I believe BBA is used for Black Beard Algae. It is
interchanged with Black Brush Algae Same thing just
a different name.
Here is a link to the various types of algae:

http://www.otocinclus.com/articles/algae.html

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--