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Hi everyone
im just wondering why my plants arnt thickening up like other peoples tanks? my stem plants seem leggy and arnt too keen on side shoots just seem to want to grow as single stems up to the surface? ive trimmed them several times and there getting bottled CO2 and ferts/water changes weekly (25%)but arnt "taking off" as id like them too

what substrate do u have?? what kind of plants?? do u fert as well?? do u have enuf lite (wattage)?? tell us more!!!

Tankie is right, we need to know more about your setup. However, I'm thinking it sounds like you have a plant in your tank that requires more light then you have on your tank. If this is the case you need to stick with lower light requiring plants. But like I said, we can't be sure unless we have your perams.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Certainly more info is required. Especially, the substrate type, size, and depth, type of lighting and how long it is on for also the age of the tubes/globes. Ferts used amounts, and how often. What also migh help is a full water peramiters.

Have a look in [link=My Profile]http://
www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/profile.asp?userid=6741" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link] for my tank info

[link=Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tanks]http://photobucket.com/albums/b209/keithgh/Betta%20desktop%20tank/" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link]

Keith

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ok here is more info
60gallons
110watts consisting of compact floros x2 55watt 10,000k. and x1 20watt 10,000k compact.
ph 7.6
amm 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
kh 10ppm
temp 26c
tank is 3 month old setup.
substrate is 1mm fine gravel 3 inches at the thickest areas. substrate heating cables and submersable tube heating.
weekly 25% water changes
Ive got some pics of 1st week and compared to now yes plants are roughly 3 times bigger but to me they seem weedy looking, i fert them weekly with Florena and have added 3 florenette tabs to substrate once only since setup. i added 2 floraplus tabs last water change plus Florena as normal.
all plants are nice and green, maybe too green no yellowing of leaves only some die off or melt down of bottom leaves on Cabomba. i have a snail problem which may have eaten these leaves? ive since added 2 Clown Loaches to get rid of snails.
Algae is not a major prob, i added 3 Ottos a month ago as Algae was starting to show so wanted to keep up with it. mostly brown algae on glass, and some spots of blue/green algae on gravel, also a little hair type algae on some plant leaves. but since Ottos and snail population algae is very small problem.
ok i think thats everything? sorry first post was rushed, hence no info provided

Bugger forgot most important thing!
bottled CO2 provided 24/7. dont know CO2 level? i will look up if you dont beat me to it! id say im not providing enough as im a bit scared to! worried PH might get to low and then adding fish from pet shop becoming a prob as there ph is 7.6 i ghess im thinking of waiting till tank is stocked before getting ph down more?? my tap water is 8 and my Sera test kit shows my tank water at 7.6 but i find it hard to match with colour strip so it could be 7.4? my bubble rate is also hard to keep constant but i try to keep at 1 bub per second.
oh lights on for 12 hrs day

Light is not bad.

Nitrates are a disaster waiting to happen. Zero is as bad as it gets.

KH 10 and Ph 7.6 is only 7ppm of Co2. All but useless.

How are you adding Co2?

Florena is I assume only micros. Tabs probably worthless.

Get ph down to 7.0 by adding more co2.

Add 1/3 tspn of Potassium Nitrate(KNO3) and 1/8 tspn of Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2po4) and 5-1o ml of liquid fert 3 times a week. 50% water change each week.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Just saw your last post.

Raise the bubble rate slowly to about 3 bps.

Fish will be fine. New fish can be acclimatised easily.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

my heart sank reading your reply why does the LFS tell me to do what turns out to be useless CO2 at 1 bps! ok i will increase to 2 then 3 bps over next few days.
as for you saying 0 nitrates is as bad as it gets, you mean only as far as for the plants benefit right?

Hi,
Normal CO2 saturation in water is around 5mg/l.
As Ben says, according to the charts http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm
You are runing around 7mg/l which is nearly useless.
You will want to turn up your bubbles per second
to eventually reach the point where you are running a
CO2 saturation higher than 15mg/l, usually around 30mg/l.

Don't just suddenly crank up the CO2. Do it slowly over
a period of several days. Remember, as you increase the
CO2 injection, you are lowering the pH and you want to
shift that slowly to reach the desired saturation level.
Shift from say 1 bps to two, leave it run for 24 hours
at that rate and then shift it higher a "tad" more and
let run for 24 hours, etc.

During the normal Nitrogen Cycle where the bacteria
break down the waste products in the tank into nitrates,
the plants use the nitrates and other elements for growth.
A "0" reading means that the plants are using the nitrates
as fast as they are created. Generally, in planted tanks,
we keep the nitrate reading around a 10 or slightly lower.
Too much will provide food for algae, and too little will
give a different form of algae a nich to fill.

Frank


Last edited by FRANK at 07-Dec-2005 10:44

Last edited by FRANK at 07-Dec-2005 10:47

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

thankyou everyone for your replies
Frank, as you said to increase nitrate level to between 15 and 30. will my fish be ok with nitrates up to 30? im still worried about my O2 levels as i only have a stir of water surface movement. should i maybe aim for 15 to 20 to be on the safe side and just monitor my fish first?
thanks for replies in advance [img src='/images/forums/halo.gif' border=0]

loulou,

Frank is not telling you to up the Nitrates to 30ppm, he is talking about the CO2. Normally I wouldn't jump in and tell someone things that a previous poster should answer but I decided to do it anyways before you beef up the wrong entity.

IMHO, your Nitrates could go up to 20ppm without any short and long term damage to the fishies, given that you do your frequent water changes (I do 50% weekly).

CO2 can be upped to 30ppm without having fish showing signs of distress (at least myself and various other members on this site have that experience).

So - once again - do not up the Nitrates to 30ppm.

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 09-Dec-2005 09:24

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
Thanks Ingo.
LouLou, I don't see anything, anywhere in what I suggested
that lead you to that conclusion. I think you meant one
thing and typed something else.

Take your CO2 saturation above 15mg/l preferably up around
30mg/l and keep your nitrate reading around 10. Excessive
nitrate will cause an algae bloom. Unfortunately, a zero
reading can cause algae too.

Frank


Last edited by FRANK at 09-Dec-2005 18:18

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

opps! sorry frank yes i did mean one thing and type another it was late and i was half asleep.
ok so i have now increase bubble rate to 2 per sec, and will turn up again tomorrow. i tested water after first increase and PH down to 7.4 (i got another test kit which is easier to read) so im aiming for 7 which will take CO2 (not nitrates) to a more desirable reading. my fish load is very small at present, hence the no Nitrate reading. ok so how do i increase my nitrates to 10? as my ferts contain no nitrates. im adding 2 Bleeding Hearts 2morro which will then mean i have 3 ottos, 2 clown loaches (2 inchs each) and the 2 Bleeding hearts. but this wont increase nitrates?
thanks for your help guys /:'

Hi Lou,
For a 60G tank, you are way, way, understocked. BTW
the tetras would prefer a school, and in your tank 10 or so
would be a nice grouping.

Nitrates. The easiest way is to add fish, but
personally, I prefer a lush jungle with a few flashes
of color (fish) instead of the other way around .. a
tank full of fish and a token plant or two.

Here in the states we have a product that is called
"Stump Remover." Once you chop down a tree, the stump
remains and has to be removed with alot of hard work,
or, you can simply put stump remover on it and it reduces
the stump to "saw dust" so to speak.
It is Potassium Nitrate. The best brand to use is Grant's
Stump Remover. However, just go to any lawn and garden
store or any large hardware store that sells garden
supplies and they should have "A" stump remover. Be sure
to read the label. It should contain ONLY potassium
nitrate, and no additives. Frequently they have additives
to accellerate the stumps destruction. You do not want the
additives in the tank. I purchased a 1 pound bottle from
the local walmart store, and I've been using it for a
a couple of years, and it still 2/3 full. Only takes a
few grains of the stuff to increase the nitrates. I mix
mine in some water and then pour it into the tank.

Try a teaspoon full in yours, then give it 24 hours to
mix throughout the tank and then test for nitrates. Then
add some more till you either get a reading of 10 or
up near it. Then leave things alone. Until you get to
"know" your tank with a given number of fish in it
combined with regular water changes, you should test
weekly.

Frank.


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

thanks frank
yeh i know im way understocked, but thats because its a new setup and although cycled i am having some trouble finding healthy fish in the LFS in my area. i am too as you, more into the plant mass with few fish, im aiming for a really lush planted tank so although i do want to add some already chosen Tetras, im more of the cautious patient type who prefers taking things sslloowwllyy when it comes to my tanks. as for the Bleeding Hearts, i too thought all Tetras where schooling fish and i think preferably they are better kept this way however on looking up Tetra species on a common website i came across some info that read Bleeding Hearts can also be kept as pairs. Seen as they are one of the larger Tetras of my choices i thought 2 would be a good number as then i can increase the number of Cardinals for example.
i will look for the Stump remover on the weekend, sounds just as scarry as the first time i got my presurised CO2
i was scared of the bottle to start with, the first time some gas hissed at me both me and the cat jumped a mile thankyou for your help everyone i will let you know how Stump remover goes.
by the way, since doing my weekly water change, adding my ferts but increasing my Co2 my plants are growing overnight. thankyou

Last edited by loulou at 12-Dec-2005 06:48