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Hi Frank & djrichie

Filter is clean, media brand new (just past one month) and has had it's first monthly clean (meaning the media baskets got a quick dip in used tank water, the course sponge was rinsed in used tank water & the fine sponge was replaced. Hoses were cleaned using my hose cleaning brush. Hoses are the standard eheim hosing - I think 16/22 - but I'm at work right now so can't check that. I did the filter clean on the same night as I installed the UV. (Frank, I remember your advice when I was going to set UV up via the pump, about how important it is to keep the UV clean - so wanted to give it a good start by having the filter clean too. Yes, I remember also your advice that I will need to open the UV monthly to clean inside). I followed packing of the filter to the letter of the manual instructions & was careful neither to under or over load the media containers. All look as per the pic's in the manual. Hoses are as long as they need to be (but no longer) with no kincks or elbows. I'm at work now, so can't measure distance from filter to tank, but I'd consider it low, not high. I'll get back to you on that & hose measurement.

Also, remember that when manufactures test their products they are using a clean unrestricted filter hence better selling points.

That rings a bell. I now recall hearing a LFS telling another customer that eheim flow rates are calculated on a completely empty cannister. If that's true, and I don't know if it is, it's a bit deceptive.

You stated earlier if you start from scratch than buying compatible equipment is easy. I disagree I not a Trump and have to buy thing one peace at a time like most of us. You Just have to do the math before you buy the peace and make sure it is compatible.

Hi djrichie. I don't know whether we are misunderstanding each other here. What I'm trying to explain is that from the begginning of this FW tank's existence - there was never a plan for a cannister filter, never a plan for a UV sterilizer. You wouldn't usually do the maths & make sure things are compatible with items you have no intention of purchasing (at that time anyway). I was a newbie & had not even heard of a UV sterilizer, so certainly couldn't plan for one's future use. This tank is one of those all-in-one tanks. It had a hood and, built-in within the hood itself, is what manufacturer's called a trickle wet & dry filter, as well as the built in light. In all of the purchases I discuss here, this is my only regret. I will never EVER buy one of these package deal all-in-one tanks again. It was a newbie mistake.

Approx 9 months (maybe longer) a Professional 2224 filter came up for sale on ebay - claimed to be only 6 months old. I had no plan for this filter's immediate use, no plan of tank conversion yet, but thought if I got it cheap enough, it was bound to come in useful one day. I was still a newbie, but heard it said eheim filters were good. I put in a low bid & thought no more of it. Surprisingly, I won the action for a very cheap price. The filter has been sitting in the garage doing nothing ever since. Any vague plans for this 2nd hand filter were not in relation to the current tank, but for a 3ft I thought of getting in the future.

Last October (around 5 months ago) I had repeated problems with apisto loss due to internal parasites & someone on the planted tank forum told me what UV's were & suggested one might help, as apistos seem susceptible to parasites. The inbuilt filter of the tank could not possibly run a UV, so only choice at the time was to run it via a pump. Advice was sought here & the maths was done. A UV was purchsed with a pump that had the correct flow rate. Matty helped me out in figuring out how to take the head measurement into account when calculating what size pump I needed.

Due to limitations caused by the hood, I decided not to proceed with installation. The hood seemed to be made out of a type of hard, but brittle seeming plastic. I worried that without the right cutting tools, I may snap the hood if I tried to make entry holes for the UV hoses to enter the tank. As I had no apistos, there seemed no urgency, & I put UV in the cupboard for installation at a future time, when I the right tools. Never did get around to it - lazy I guess.

Two months ago, mainly as I wanted to upgrade lighting level, I removed & discarded the hood with the inbuilt filter & light. A new light was purchased, & as I had a pefectly good cannister filter sitting around doing nothing, it was installed.

This COMPLETELY changed the circumstances of the tank, meaning a UV could now be installed via the filter, with no need to put an ugly pump inside the tank. Still, I had no apistos, I saw no reason to rush into the installation (lazy again).

Last weekend, a small colony of apistos moved in, so now seemed the time to set up the UV.

So, what I was trying to say in my previous reply was, if I set up a tank now, knowing that one day I might (even just might) install a UV, I would do what you suggest & each item would be calculated to match & be compatible with a possible future puchase. I agree with all you say, but it doesn't fit the circumstances here.

Circumstances here were:
a) I had an existing & unused UV in the cupbard, initially planned to be used with a pump, & bought for a tank with different circumstances & without a cannister filter.
b) I had an existing & unused cannister filter rated for a larger tank and with fully adjustable flow rate sitting in the garage

So, I used what I had at hand & I'm lucky, as both the equipment & the maths have worked out for me in this tank.

The flow rate (via my calculations) isn't a problem, as the tank is still being turned over 4 times per hour. I was surprised, that's all, to find such a difference in the stated flow rate compared to the actual flow rate.

I'm not in the US, so I don't know of "Toms", but a flow meter seems a good idea. I'll look in our hardware stores & see what comes up on ebay, although to make sure UV is kept clean, filter media cleaning will be a min of monthly, but a flow meter might tell me if I need to do so more regularly.

Thanks again to all for the time in helping me out here.

Cheers
TW

OK, If your not get a good flow rate from the pump and everything being right you need to look at the impeller and motor. As it being used the impeller may have some type of clog or the motor may not be rotating at the proper speed. hence low flow rate. You should read the filter manual and if you don't have it try their website for a pda file manual. Follow the instruction to a T and check them. If you find that motor or impeller have issues YOU CAN get parts, Here in US I use Petsolutions.com but the shipping might kill you so see if you LFS can get them for you. I'm think most likely a clogged impeller. Here is the web site for flow meter: http://www.tomaquarium.com/ go to produces, than under maintenance. This is actually an imported here.

DjRichie
Don't Panic

Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams

Robyn, if you believe your filter to be adequate to filter your tank and the flow is less than the max for the UV sterilizer, then I wouldn't sweat it. Seems to me that being able to have the filter on full blast just makes things easier.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I agree Matty. No need to mark the filter to make sure I always return it to the same point after maintenance. So in fact, it does make things easier for me that this was the result. I just thought it was strange.

Did you see the 110 gal tank on America funniest Video last night. FUNNY LOL (Kids bike fell over and barely tapped the glass and 110 gals of water & fish on the floor

I didn't see this earlier djrichie & didn't see the footage, but a friend of mine had the same thing happen sort of (to her tank). Somehow her kid banged something against the tank - but it wasn't even much of a bang. The tank broke, water & fish on the floor everywhere. She had fish swimming around in her vases until she could get them a new home. She laughs now - but didn't then. Lucky, she had no fish casualties.

Cheers
TW

Matty, It is my understanding that her filter is working at less than full capacity, more like 30%. It was purchased used and I have a feeling that it has plant debris or it was ran dry. and the original owner sold it as working on ebay. Tankwatcher said everything is set up right with no flow restrictions. As a person who once built and rebuilt pumps for pools,ponds homewater and fountains. I have experience alot flow restrictions in them. a pump is a pump big or small. My concern is that the pump is defective and may be getting hot or motor has a problem in it. Which is dangerous to the fish, her and her home. You would use a toaster if it only work on half the bread right. It is cheaper to fix it than to buy a new and if it has a electrical problem than that is cheaper than replacing everything you own.

You are wrong when you think that if the flow rate is to low for a UV it OK because the heat build up in the unit and that can, will cause you a problem. It is intense light that creates heat the water flow keeps the bulb cool so I feel you need to keep it close the proper flow rate. Not low for the heat not to fast to fry the reproductive system of the bacteria

DjRichie
"Don't Panic":

Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams

Hmm...Robyn said the output was 340 something L/hr. That's very close to 50% output. Which is not great, but considering the 700L/hr figure is based on an empty filter with no head, I'm going to make a guess that a filter with at least a couple ft of head loss and 4 elbows, along with a cannister full of media and sponges is going to lose some flow. 50%? I don't know. It's not entirely unreasonable though. It makes me want to go check the flow rate on mine.

I wasn't aware that the pump was overheating or or making any noise or giving other indication of failure. If it had been said, I wouldn't suggest it's use, but I don't remember it being said.

340 L/hr is also reasonably close to the UV max flow, so I wouldn't be worried about anything there. I'm also not aware that any UV sterilizer has a minimum flow warning.

I'm not saying the pump can't fail, just that it wasn't my first reaction. It's very reasonable of you to investigate the matter djrichie.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty
In a couple a recent post myself and Frank asked and advised as to any flow restrictions she may have on the return line, Frank pointed out about the length of the hoses (which is something I have never even gave much thought about and now thinking of shorting mine)and media pack to tight and she said that there was nothing. (Read back a couple post you will see) Also Frank didn't have enough coffee one morning and made the mistake of think in Liters and not gallons per hour. I pretty sure we are in gallons per hour. We have even talked about manufacture tricks in rating flow rate, but still it is low. I was mearly suggesting that if it everything is correct and she is still having a low flow rate that maybe there is something wrong with the filter, considering it was bought used on ebay. Not that there is anything wrong with buying a use pump on ebay, but you don't know what your going to get and what the seller has happen to the item. I have bought from ebay myself but is it buyer beware there. It's most likely a great filter but the flow rate is slow. I'm just trying to give her a place to look to see why, I like stated before it mostly likely the impeller since that what creates the flow. I think there is some stuff stuck in it or it ran dry for some reason and have change the plastic just a little. If it did run dry than you need to look at the motor because if it got hot it will effect the motor. I love my fish but I love my house more. Sorry Little fishies. I'm just saying what I would look at or what I would do. Tank watcher never said it was over heating she said the flow rate doesn't match what she thought or what manufacture says it should be and 50% is a lot missing with flow rate if you counting the number of times a body of water is being filter in a given' hour.

DjRichie
"Don't Panic"

Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams

Hmm...Robyn said the output was 340 something L/hr. That's very close to 50% output. Which is not great, but considering the 700L/hr figure is based on an empty filter with no head, I'm going to make a guess that a filter with at least a couple ft of head loss and 4 elbows, along with a cannister full of media and sponges is going to lose some flow. 50%? I don't know. It's not entirely unreasonable though. It makes me want to go check the flow rate on mine.

Yep, this sounds about right. The 185gph as Matty said is under optimum conditions same as the estimated fuel economy on your car. It's in a wind tunnel with no cargo or passengers. It means very little in real world applications. So in the real world your eheim is pushing water uphill, channeling through different twists and turns, going through the UV and up to the tank.

I don't want to start a whole debate about flow rates, but I really think there not very important in planted aquaria which is the setup you have. The surface area and the contact it has with the water passing through is key. This is what Eheim's have excelled at for a long time and why they can get away with smaller flows when compared to a fluval and some other brands. Your not picking up hugh pieces of waste in most planted tanks where you need a hugh turnover to keep it from poisioning the fish. Most of the filtration is in the tank. I could tell you my 72g is run off an eheim ecco with a max pump rate of 159gph. I've tested my gph and it's around 70. That means I'm only turning over my water one time an hour and the water is crystal clear. It's probably also the reason I have no parasites or anything else. And if your thinking about fert delivery how much flow do you think you need to move dissolved chemicals through your water a couple of feet. Oh please, the fishes little fins will move that stuff around plenty.

My Scapes

Took me a while to come back, as I've been working flat out mostly since my last post. Thanks for the replies.

1st, what signs should I look/listen for, if my filter is likely to cause trouble. I am an instruction reader, and a worrier. So for that reason, before I put the 2nd had filter in operation I did read everything fully, cleaned everything & removed & cleaned the impeller. Nothing seemed dirty, but I cleaned it anyway. Never had a cannister before, so I have nothing to compare it to, but the impeller looked fine. Filter is perfectly cool to touch & is completely silent.

The distance from the base of filter to lip of tank = 3ft 8inches. Hose is eheim 12/16mm. Hose is as long as it needs to be & no longer (comes from reading the instructions - where that's what they recommend).

How water exists & enters the tank is via the 2 eheim installation kits picture I wanted to get rid of the yucky green tubes from the tank, but as a bonus it makes kinks & bends in the hose entering the tank impossible. Plus hose cleaning is simple (unscrew the cap on the hose connection & you can insert your hose brush with everything still set up.

Hey tetratech, thanks for stopping in.

72g is run off an eheim ecco with a max pump rate of 159gph.

This reassures me that I'm ok with the flow rate for this planted tank. But on the other hand, I wonder if it is so common for eheim to vary such a lot for the stated flow rate. You have yours on full throttle - not turned down at all? Makes me worry if the Eheim Pro II 2026 is going to have a big enought turnover for the 4ft African tank I'm planning. I thought it was plenty big enough, but it may not be so. I bought it back in Jan, so I may not be able to swap it.

BTW, I don't know if it is true eheim test their filter flow rate whilst empty. For sure, I did hear a LFS tell a customer that, but how do I know where he got his info from & it may be completely false. Although my tests & Tetra's flow rate point towards it being possibly true, I don't want to start a false rumor. I'd like to ask eheim, but twice I've gone to their website question section (you email them & they email you back, or so they say). Two out of two questions have been ignored & not answered. So I don't fancy my chances of getting their answer on this either.

LF has at least one of the pro II 2026 (think he has 2). Wonder what flow he gets?

Anyhow, thanks to all

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Cheers
TW

Will if everything is working OK, than it is what it is. If it not get hot, the impeller is clean and it running quietly. Than i would say enjoy. As far as the flow rate goes I don't want to say all but yes they get there flow rates with an empty filter. Better selling point. As far as them answering you it may take awhile sometimes. I was looking into API product and emailed them, it this 2weeks before I got a response.

Djrichie
"Don't Panic"

Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams