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Last night just before lights-out, noticed that my RS was hovering near the surface in a head-up position, knowing that this is not "normal behavior" for him, I did a test battery >
NH3=0
NO3=0
NO2=less than .5 PPM
total hardness =120 PPM
PH=7.0
Being that the Nitrite level was not an absolute 0 I did a 25-30% WC, (as I had already done earlier in the day) by the time I got the python set-up, a few splendids and the pair of plecos' were looking stressed got WC #1 done-15min maybe, retested all perams. SAME- WC#2, another 15 min elapsed,NO2 finally at a definate 0 PPM reading, all the splendids are at the surface gasping, the 2 plecos and 2 splendids and the RS had perished that fast.

unless I bunked the NO2 test from earlier in the day, and the one at the first notable sigh of distress displayed by the RS, I'm not really sure just what the heck happened, the last thing that comes to mind is too low of dissolved O2 in the water ( water temp 76F BTW)as the only fish that did not really show any signs of distress were the gouramis.

the water conditioner regularly used is "Jungle - Start Right" (granular) and due to the fact the local water company drafts from 7 different aquifers in the area, I occasionally use in supplement "seachem Neutral Regulator" to buffer any PH variences.
After 2 Hrs of constant observation and re-testing and the situation seemingly stable, I finally went to bed. In the morning, retested, everything was as if nothing ever happened.
The few that did perish did not show any discoloration either on the body nor gills, no visible external parasites, no "fuzz" or white-spots, all fins intact, none torn or missing.

Nitrite spike or low DO ??

How long have you had this tank set up?
I am concerned as to the lack of Nitrates on your testing, and visible nitrites, which suggests this tank has not yet cycled.
This would explain why the shark is hovering near the surface.
I have not heard of the water conditioner you use, I would recommend Prime.


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Ah, yes, forgive me I did fail to mention how long up and running, over 2 years now.( 46 Gal)
The conditioners I use I've used for some time now, I used to use Tetra's Aquasafe, but I noticed that the dechlornation left fairly high levels of NH3, thus the introduction of the Seachem Neutral Regulator, it also detoxifies NH3, chlorine/chloramine, buffers PH to a stable 7.0 , like I mentioned the LWC can draft from 7 different aquifers, the hardness and PH can vary from 6.2 to 7.8 from the tap, so I do a PH and hardness test on the tap water to get an idea of what to implement to counter the PH fluctuations.
Then agin, if there were low DO levels, that could have killed off some or all of the nitrifying bacteria thus causing a mini-cycle....hmmmmm, but with the regular PWC earlier in the day, one would think that the O2 levels would be ok......and there is always plenty of surface agitation.

OK I am going way off field but working on the surface area only. Is it possible that there was some ???? of spray, or even some thing different used close to the tank being Christmas even some of the scented candles can give of oily fumes. It could even possible a smoker got too close to the tank. What ever it was it worked extremely fast.

The only other thing is one of the many nasties our water suppliers are adding into our water lately to counter all the problems with the natural/stored/polluted water. If it one of these ???? you will never know what it was.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

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Keith

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Nitrite poisoning will cause gill damage and fish will act like they can't get enough oxygen. Which is true enough but it's due to nitrite. Adding a very small amount of salt (1 tsp per 300 gallons) will help detoxify the nitrite. I'm guessing this was the problem. By the time you changed the water, the damage was probably already done. I can't remember all the details, but nitrite will somehow do something to the hemoglobin in the blood, preventing oxygen from being absorbed into the bloodstream. Since you're cycling right now, I would add salt right away in case of future nitrite spikes.

Then the other question is why is your tank cycling. Something disrupted it somehow, so figure out what that was and don't do it again. Or it could be too high a bio load, or too much built up waste. If you're doing weekly water changes it's doubful that it's that though.

Keith, you do bring up a good notion about "nasties" in the water supplies, as about 2 months ago there was a E-Coli (sp?) scare in the local water system that supplies my area, turned out it was a contaminated test tube-not the water-,or so the official release statement said. Not so much the bacteria its self, but what might have been used to disinfect the flowing supply beyond that of chlorine/chloramine normally used. In response to your other thoughts, negative on the sprays,scented candles, smokers... well, I'm the only one in the household who has that habit and I take that outside...

Carissa, You also bring up a good point about the NO2 poisoning, tho a few of the tests did indicate a small concentration of nitrites; I do know that it is toxic in ranges of 3PPM and up ( depending on species) and have never heard of any surviving a concentration of more than 5 PPM, and I tested just under .5 PPM, usually I get a reading of 0 PPM, as was the reading taken a few hrs after the regular PWC, but just 5 hrs after that is when I noticed the RS distressed and got the .5 reading.
It seems it would take a few days for the nitrites to spike after the ammonia had spiked and subsided .
If in fact the water is cycling again, your right, something disrupted the bio-filtration, which was my guess of low dissolved oxygen levels 'caus the nitrifying bacteria need oxygen just as much, if not more-so, than the fish to function...hehe, figures, one of the tests I don't do...dissolved O2.

Thank you all so much for the feedback and thoughts, oh, and Keith, don't ever think your off field !! your input is too valuable to all of us !!

J

Hi,
Yes I see what you're saying now about low o2...but did you change anything that would have caused the low o2? If you did a water change there's always a chance that you disturbed the biofiltration without realizing it. Nitrite is toxic at just about any level, it just works faster at higher levels of concentration and will have varying effects from fish to fish....read the below.

The fact that you have nitrites at all shows that either you have increased your bioload, or that you have disrupted your biological filtration somehow. I would keep testing 2x/day to see if it rises again or if it's resolved itself. Ammonia readings would not necessarily happen because it's possible that you only made a dent in the nitrite/nitrate population and not the ammonia/nitrite type for whatever reason.

Quote from http://www.bio-elite.com/nitrogen_faq.htm


How does nitrite affect my fish?

Nitrite is toxic to fish, only slightly less than ammonia. Nitrite leads to a condition known as "brown blood" due to the brown colour of the gills of the affected fish.

Nitrite has the ability of entering the fish’s blood stream and it oxidises the haemoglobin into methaemoglobin, which is not as efficient at transporting oxygen. Therefore fish react as if there is not enough oxygen in the water

Come to the surface and "gulp" air
Increased gill movement and gasping
Lethargy
Fish may die within hours or days.

What levels of nitrite are toxic?

Some fish are more sensitive to nitrite levels than other species and therefore it is best if the level of nitrite is maintained at zero. Any levels above 0.1mg/L should be regarded as toxic and the problem needs urgent attention.

Thanks Carissa, tis a good informative, descriptive link .
It took 2 PWC to get the NO2 to 0 that night, have been testing twice a day since ( morning-evening) to follow anything that may develop, so far everything has stabilized.
As far as anything different, no additions to population nor feeding quantity or frequency so bio-load was-is-should be stable. It is possible that I may have cleaned out a large colony of those nitrobacters in the DSB, I usually "skim" the surface on 2/3 of the bottom, and do a deep vac-clean on the other 1/3, and change the filter pads every 2 weeks but 3-4 days after the PWC's, in attempt to prevent such a event, tho it does seem that something somewhere went awry.

Thanks again for all your advice and input everyone

Have a happy but SAFE new-year!!!
J.

Hi,
Just out of curosity, just how deep is your Deep Sand Bed?

Frank


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Hey Frank, about 2- 21/2 in in the front gently sloping up to just under 3 1/2 in in the rear, circulation of water through the sand is done by a reverse flow UGF, the sand is atop a ultra-fine stainless steel screen that keeps the classified sand granules from getting into and under the UGF plates which are a standard design made by Penn-Plax under-tow, just trimmed to shape to fit in a bow front tank and sealed in place to eliminate any shifting under the screen. There is 1 powerhead to each UGF plate, can't remember if there rated @ 125 or 135 GPH at a 0 elevation through a 3/4 in. discharge outlet ( Marineland 1140 is make and model) I may need a refresher course in hydraulics, by formulations there is approx a average of 1.78 GPH /Sq. in.of water flow which should be more than adequate to greatly reduce the chance of "dead spots" from forming in the substrate in between cleanings.